PDA

View Full Version : Diablo II Supplement



Lev
2010-11-15, 11:32 PM
Has anyone bought this or used it? It looks amazing but I'm not sure how it runs.

It's apparently got every monster and NPC fleshed out and has all main quest in adventure format.

hamishspence
2010-11-16, 04:41 AM
There's two supplements, not one. Diablerie has stats for magic weapon properties, and all the classes, and some of the monsters.

To Hell & Back has stats for various monsters, rules for making your own Unique monsters, and the computer game adventure written up as a D&D adventure.

I haven't seen how it runs yet- but it does look interesting.

Dsurion
2010-11-16, 05:17 AM
I've always wanted to try it, but I never had the cash to buy either supplement.

The Fast Play PDF looks about right in style, but the mechanics are... Strange.
http://www.wizards.com/diabloii/Diablo2FastPlay.pdf

I think I'd rather just use straight 3.5 mechanics and modify for Diablo flavor than whatever they were thinking.

Myth
2010-11-16, 05:18 AM
"Ha-ha, it's a little skeleton with a little spear."

"No that's a Stygian Doll. Wait don't hi-"

Your deeds will be remembered.

Aidan305
2010-11-16, 06:51 AM
I have the Diablerie at home, and it's a great book, full of flavour and such. If you want to run a campaign set in Sanctuary it has all the information you need with regard to monsters and classes and the like. It also has some interesting rules with regard to armour and weapon damage, your weapons will wear down over time and will need fixing or replaing. This can be a particularly useful mechanic for "Survival" campaigns. It also has a good variety of new weapon enchants.

However, I can't really speak with regards to the mechanics. That's not my field and I honestly couldn't tell you if something was balanced or not (Except for the Truename in ToM. That one's obvious).

J.Gellert
2010-11-16, 07:54 AM
The mechanics are weird, it's a very old book, and it's idea of balance is... skewed. Some of the spells and abilities are also "funny". Still, the flavor is great, and it's far more interesting to be a "Priest of Rathma" than a cleric who gimps himself on purpose (for example, by avoiding Divine Power and summoned outsiders) to act like a necromancer.

panaikhan
2010-11-16, 08:12 AM
I bought both books, and actually attempted to re-create the game for my group.

I have to say, trying to mix standard D&D and DII classes is... problematic.
The treasure tables are immensely fun though.

There is almost no 'roleplay' included - you pretty much kill everything in sight, and unless the players have actually played DII then some of the monsters can surprise them.

hamishspence
2010-11-16, 08:16 AM
I have to say, trying to mix standard D&D and DII classes is... problematic.

I can think of a few things that might need adjusting- partial actions would need to be replaced with Swift Actions,

save DCs, and damage, might also need adjusting so they scale.

panaikhan
2010-11-16, 08:22 AM
The Diablo books were written for 3.0 - I don't know if an update was ever published.

hamishspence
2010-11-16, 08:58 AM
It wasn't- but there's nothing stopping the player and DM going through the classes and fixing anomalies.

Lev
2010-11-16, 08:03 PM
Diablerie is awesome, I like this better than To Hell and Back.

Another great tip, ham =]

KillianHawkeye
2010-11-16, 10:30 PM
I can think of a few things that might need adjusting- partial actions would need to be replaced with Swift Actions,

save DCs, and damage, might also need adjusting so they scale.

Swift Actions are not the equivalent of Partial Actions. Partial Actions are when you can only take a Standard or a Move Action because of being slowed or surprised, etc.

Lev
2010-11-16, 11:00 PM
Swift Actions are not the equivalent of Partial Actions. Partial Actions are when you can only take a Standard or a Move Action because of being slowed or surprised, etc.

How do partial actions work exactly?

Something like a paladin's aura in Diablerie requires a partial action to maintain, so does that mean it causes the effect of a partial action AKA uses either 1 move or 1 standard action?
AKA Partial == Standard OR Move?

If theres more to this please say so.





Also, some content is a little bit overpowered, such as the paladin's 2HP heal over a 5' radius/round that only costs a full round action to maintain, or shooting unlimited holy bolts that deal 1D8+5 to undead but heal allies.

Vigor adds +10 base speed to all allies and only needs to be reapplied every 10 mins, I only assume this works on animal allies too, such as mounts you can cast this while riding. Unlimited uses.

Meditation can be used Cha + 3 times/day and any ally near you can make a DC15 Cha check to recover a 4th level or below spell or an ability... but this includes the meditation ability.... so odds are you have unlimited uses :smallwink:

And don't even get me started on mana potions =P

faceroll
2010-11-17, 12:56 AM
Also, some content is a little bit overpowered, such as the paladin's 2HP heal over a 5' radius/round that only costs a full round action to maintain, or shooting unlimited holy bolts that deal 1D8+5 to undead but heal allies.

Vigor adds +10 base speed to all allies and only needs to be reapplied every 10 mins, I only assume this works on animal allies too, such as mounts you can cast this while riding. Unlimited uses.

These aren't overpowered abilities by most definitions of "overpowered". Even if you're only running monks, rogues and fighters, free healing is nice for everyone.


Meditation can be used Cha + 3 times/day and any ally near you can make a DC15 Cha check to recover a 4th level or below spell or an ability... but this includes the meditation ability.... so odds are you have unlimited uses :smallwink:

And don't even get me started on mana potions =P

Yeah, that's pretty broken

Optimator
2010-11-17, 01:57 AM
Well, that's how it was in Diablo II.

J.Gellert
2010-11-17, 05:04 AM
Really, if you have to stop and rest, you are doing it wrong.

Myth
2010-11-17, 05:10 AM
These abilities are not imbalacned if the game plays like the real DII. I'd like to see the players tackle an extra strong, estra fast, cursed, fanaticism Death Lord and his minions with three Champion Deathlords in the area.

How well was the block mechanic implemented? Without decent blockage the party will be slaughtered by the first pack of archers or quillbeasts in Hell (if there is even that dificulty in the DnD book)

Lev
2010-11-17, 05:23 AM
These abilities are not imbalacned if the game plays like the real DII. I'd like to see the players tackle an extra strong, estra fast, cursed, fanaticism Death Lord and his minions with three Champion Deathlords in the area.

How well was the block mechanic implemented? Without decent blockage the party will be slaughtered by the first pack of archers or quillbeasts in Hell (if there is even that dificulty in the DnD book)
The book assumes that level 1-20 is still normal mode, technically killing diablo would be on the edge of epic.

The block and defense mechanic are already in DnD, AC == Def, and shield AC is block, the block mechanic AND defense mechanic in D2 are both powered by dexterity, so there's your Dex to AC bonus translation right there.

Holy Shield also doubles your shield AC after magic modifiers are applied.




SO, how do partial actions work?

hamishspence
2010-11-17, 05:25 AM
I think in 3.0, Partial Actions were a little like Swift actions.

Hence my suggestion of making them into Swift actions for most spells.

J.Gellert
2010-11-17, 06:18 AM
Partial actions were to partial rounds what full actions are to full rounds.

If that doesn't make sense, they are practically "a standard action or a move action". For example, you had the "partial charge" which in 3.5 is the "standard action charge".

For conversion purposes, they are definitely not swift actions.

Edit: Examples from the "3.5 update booklet"


Divine Rage: Rather than allowing the deity to take one extra
partial action each round, this ability allows the deity to make
one extra attack, at its full attack bonus, whenever it uses the full
attack action.


Golem, Mithral: hp 238; Alacrity replace "partial action" with
"standard action"

Lev
2010-11-17, 06:26 AM
Swift makes more sense for a D2-esque aura, really.
But the more OR swift explaination makes more sense in a balance perspective, and why its worded like it is.

Myth
2010-11-17, 06:47 AM
Excuse me but the AC mechanic for DnD equals the Defense mechainc from Diablo. Block stacks with Defense, as does Damage Reduced which is percentage based.

A Paladin with 12,000 defense, 75% block chance and Damage Reduced 50% has no alternative in DnD that i could think of.

hamishspence
2010-11-17, 06:49 AM
For conversion purposes, they are definitely not swift actions.

Didn't Quicken grant an extra partial action which could only be used to cast spells?

Lev
2010-11-17, 06:56 AM
Excuse me but the AC mechanic for DnD equals the Defense mechainc from Diablo. Block stacks with Defense, as does Damage Reduced which is percentage based.

A Paladin with 12,000 defense, 75% block chance and Damage Reduced 50% has no alternative in DnD that i could think of.
If you hit 75% block and have 12,000 defense with a viable build in d2 before you kill diablo in NORMAL then I admit there is no equivalent.

You fight Diablo in a D2 DnD campaign at level 19-25. He is a freaking god, god of pit fiends, and those things are CR20 on their own.

Myth
2010-11-17, 07:31 AM
The only real fun and challange is Hell difficulty, anything before that is fodder. In that regard, making 20th level DnD characters fight the equivalent of Normal Diablo II monsters is just... underwhelming and outright pathetic.

20th level characters from 3.5 should be the equivalent of 80th level DII chars, and should be fighting the really scary things, like mobs of Gloams with one Conviction one and another multiple shot one.

Lev
2010-11-17, 07:49 AM
The only real fun and challange is Hell difficulty, anything before that is fodder. In that regard, making 20th level DnD characters fight the equivalent of Normal Diablo II monsters is just... underwhelming and outright pathetic.

20th level characters from 3.5 should be the equivalent of 80th level DII chars, and should be fighting the really scary things, like mobs of Gloams with one Conviction one and another multiple shot one.
DnD is both far more chaotic than D2 and is always in hardcore mode.
You can bring a res and lose the xp like in hell mode, but otherwise there's no auto-res.

I have to frankly disagree in all regards to your statement about it being underwhelming and pathetic.

Myth
2010-11-17, 08:35 AM
I disagree about Hardcore. Diablo's Hardcore mode is really that - one life. You die - your deeds will be remembered and your character is now a hooded figure in the selection menu. In DnD death is a 10 minute inconvenience with True Resurrection and the likes.

Ernir
2010-11-17, 12:37 PM
The only real fun and challange is Hell difficulty, anything before that is fodder. In that regard, making 20th level DnD characters fight the equivalent of Normal Diablo II monsters is just... underwhelming and outright pathetic.

20th level characters from 3.5 should be the equivalent of 80th level DII chars, and should be fighting the really scary things, like mobs of Gloams with one Conviction one and another multiple shot one.

I'm running a D2 campaign on these forums right now. (Using 3.5 mechanics entirely. I don't own the dedicated supplements.)

While within the context of the D2 mechanics I agree, that there isn't much aside from Soul bosspacks that threatens the high-level characters, modelling a 3.5 campaign after that is... problematic. :smallconfused:

First of all, there's the normal-nightmare-hell distinction. It's the same stuff, only with more powerful monsters. That doesn't quite work in D&D (and even if it did, I daresay it would be a boring campaign). In D&D, you're pretty much stuck running through the campaign only once.

Second, making fights against serious bosspacks the prime combat focus of the game may be faithful to the video game, but... seriously, if you're spending time on playing this in P&P RPG format, I would expect the climatic fights to be the fights against the Prime Evils.


Anyway, I am running the storyline as a 1 to mid twenties campaign. Around the time the storyline finishes, the characters will be epic heroes attacking the gates of hell. It has a nicer ring to it than "epic heroes who have already killed the prime evils three times, and are now having their most lethal encounter yet with a group of exploding dolls.", if you ask me. =/

Frosty
2010-11-17, 01:16 PM
I have the urge to join just so I can kill Grimm Sparkfist. I think that's the one unique council member in Durance of Hate level 3? Sometimes spawned with Lightning enchanted MLSE?

Myth
2010-11-17, 04:37 PM
His name is Bremm Sparkfist. He is Cold Enchanted since Lod patch 1.7, since there was a glitch with MS+LE one-shotting people before.

Ernir: in that case I think one should just start in Hell difficulty anyawy and buff up the monsters accordingly? Otherwise it's pointless. Also to really stay true to the game you'd have to allow the running of super unique monsters and bosses. Or rig the drop chance so they do get their equipment eventually.

Lev
2010-11-17, 06:57 PM
You do not even fight high level boss mobs, until you get true res.
So, disagreed.

Myth
2010-11-17, 08:04 PM
You do not even fight high level boss mobs, until you get true res.
So, disagreed.

So you have it easy and then you have a reset button? How is that even remotely resembling Hardcore in Hell difficulty in the actual game? Seems to me my underwhelming comment is spot on by what is being described.

Lev
2010-11-17, 08:28 PM
So you have it easy and then you have a reset button? How is that even remotely resembling Hardcore in Hell difficulty in the actual game? Seems to me my underwhelming comment is spot on by what is being described.
Ah, you are right, I was talking about normal difficulty as it's the only thing actually statted in the 3 sourcebooks available and really, the only thing that makes sense.
A T1 wiz could genesis gank diablo of any difficulty at level 20, Diablo could have 100 trillion hit points and it wouldn't matter.

If you'd find hunting down dragon, demons, beasts, raiders and such in both overland, in ruins, in dungeons and in exotic locations then I'd suggest simply not playing DnD. If it's a snorefest, blame the DM, or possibly even blame the lack of insight of the sourcebook to balance to your optimization or the specific build of your group.

If you find the game boring, then some one, in some way has messed up, but before you find what exactly you found boring about it, you might want to play a session.

senrath
2010-11-17, 09:28 PM
His name is Bremm Sparkfist. He is Cold Enchanted since Lod patch 1.7, since there was a glitch with MS+LE one-shotting people before.

Ernir: in that case I think one should just start in Hell difficulty anyawy and buff up the monsters accordingly? Otherwise it's pointless. Also to really stay true to the game you'd have to allow the running of super unique monsters and bosses. Or rig the drop chance so they do get their equipment eventually.

Please, don't give him any ideas. It's hard enough as it is. Blood Raven forced us to retreat twice, both times almost resulting in a TPK.

Myth
2010-11-18, 05:47 AM
If this is even remotely close to Diablo 2 potions should be cheap, infinite and drinkable as a free action. Bloodraven = splattered.

Lord DeSies and his cronies? They might give you a run for your money. Especially if they are the old, unpatched version that used to pull random items off your person via Telekinesis. Good times :smallbiggrin:

Lev
2010-11-18, 06:18 AM
If this is even remotely close to Diablo 2 potions should be cheap, infinite and drinkable as a free action. Bloodraven = splattered.

Lord DeSies and his cronies? They might give you a run for your money. Especially if they are the old, unpatched version that used to pull random items off your person via Telekinesis. Good times :smallbiggrin:

Like D2, dnd has options for easy access to potions via an enchanted potion storing belt, which in D2 is just a sash.

Unlike D2, the DnD version does not have an abysmal economic balance, thus downing a couple potions at low level would be a fairly large trade as a light health potion costs .15k a pop.

The problem with blood raven is that you have an archer boss who both raises free undead and doesn't care about her allies while firing into melee with arrows that set things on fire.
Hungry dead have a 20' movement speed which is notably faster than the 0'-5' movement speed in the game, the only thing stopping the horde from outright killing you in the first couple rounds is that they can't attack the same round they move so the kiting option is still available... but the problem is that if you get trapped you are kinda boned.

I should point out that this is not a Diablo II board game, it's a DnD supplement for running 3.0 in a DnD world with the same storyline, monsters, classes, spells and magic items.
It's not a gameplay replica, some things are notably different in both experience and in context (the book clearly says near the beginning that some things have been altered to "mix it up".

Steveotep
2010-11-18, 05:23 PM
The best part of Diablerie is the random treasure tables, which generate Prefix Widget of Suffix. Here are three I did quickly:

Stalking Chain Gloves of Power
Fatiguing Long War Bow of the Eagle
Book of Confusion

faceroll
2010-11-21, 01:41 AM
Didn't Quicken grant an extra partial action which could only be used to cast spells?

No, it made casting a spell a free action. Same as in the first editions of 3.5 books.