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Sindri
2010-11-16, 03:09 AM
Low to no LA and HD preferred. I'm looking for a good race for a charisma-intensive class, preferably without big penalties elsewhere.

Mordokai
2010-11-16, 03:58 AM
Lesser aasimar, from... Players Guide to Faerun, I believe. You can find something similar here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

Greenish
2010-11-16, 06:37 AM
Master player race list (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19546874/Master_Player_Race_List_Version_2.0) has most (all?) 0 LA, no RHD races.

Sadly, charisma bonus is rather rare. Star Elves, Spirit Hellbred and Spellscales all sport unfortunate -2 con to go with it.

Dracons
2010-11-16, 07:14 AM
I belive Catfolk get a bonus to dex and charisma.

FMArthur
2010-11-16, 08:08 AM
The Magic-Blooded template gives +2 Cha -2 Wis and is LA +0. It also gives a +2 bonus on Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana, 1/day Detect Magic, Read Magic, and a couple other very minor SLAs. Replaces any racial vision with Low-Light vision. Changes your Favored Class to Sorceror, too.

Even though it says to do otherwise, I would have it replace your racial features like Dragonborn do, rather than add to it. No LA +0 template should be so strictly positive.

2-HeadedGiraffe
2010-11-16, 08:37 AM
A standard aasimar (as opposed to the lesser variety mentioned before) gets +2 to both Charisma and Wisdom with only a +1 Level Adjustment. In addition, they get some other bonuses.

Spellscales (Races of the Dragon) get +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution for no Level Adjustment.

Person_Man
2010-11-16, 09:38 AM
Killoren: Although they lack an ability score adjustment, once per hour (up to your Cha bonus times per day) you can Smite (Cha to-hit, hit dice to damage) any aberration, construct, humanoid, ooze, outsider, or undead. The bonus is untyped, and can be improved with the Killoren Smite feat (Save or Daze). You also have the Fey type, which opens up some Alter Self shenanigans. Races of the Wild pg 102.

Dr.Epic
2010-11-16, 09:55 AM
Planetouched, I think it might be your best choice.

Wabbajack
2010-11-16, 10:27 AM
A standard aasimar (as opposed to the lesser variety mentioned before) gets +2 to both Charisma and Wisdom with only a +1 Level Adjustment. In addition, they get some other bonuses.


That variant on the WotC site is not the lesser aasimar.
Lesser aasimar are exactly like the normal ones except that they are "Humanoid" instead of "Outsider", but are still susceptible to spells that affect outsider and they have LA +0.

Sindri
2010-11-16, 12:34 PM
Which book was Magic Blooded in? It sounds great, but I don't remember seeing that one...

Probably going for lesser aasimar or spellscale; I'll need to review the full descriptions and maybe find some templates to add. Catfolk are a D&D wiki homebrew, IIRC, so they might not be allowed.

Eldariel
2010-11-16, 12:42 PM
Magic-Blooded is in some Dragon Magazine. Can't recall which off-hand. And yeah, Lesser Aasimar is a fine choice. I personally like Star Elves 'cause "ZOMGELVES!" but meh.

Greenish
2010-11-16, 12:59 PM
Catfolk are a D&D wiki homebrew, IIRC, so they might not be allowed.Catfolk are from Races of the Wild.

FMArthur
2010-11-16, 01:00 PM
Magic-Blooded is from Dragon Magazine 306.

Sindri
2010-11-16, 01:08 PM
Catfolk are from Races of the Wild.

Ah, right. Very nice... +4 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, 40ft land speed, and +1 nat armor for a +1 LA.

Vortling
2010-11-16, 01:29 PM
Mephlings from the Planar handbook get -2 int, +2 cha and another +2 based off their elemental type. That and a few other goodies for +1 LA. Catfolk are likely stronger for the +1 LA though.

FMArthur
2010-11-16, 01:31 PM
Catfolk also get an exclusive feat, Catfolk Pounce! You can full attack on a charge if your target happens to be flat-footed.

Yeah, Catfolk are pretty underwhelming as a LA +1 race. :smallwink:

HunterOfJello
2010-11-16, 01:42 PM
Unseelie Fey template from the Dragon Compendium

mucat
2010-11-16, 02:57 PM
That variant on the WotC site is not the lesser aasimar.
Lesser aasimar are exactly like the normal ones except that they are "Humanoid" instead of "Outsider", but are still susceptible to spells that affect outsider and they have LA +0.

I doubt many DMs would allow those in actual play, though.

Urpriest
2010-11-16, 03:06 PM
I doubt many DMs would allow those in actual play, though.

It's actually pretty common. What very few DMs will do is allow lesser planetouched if there are normal planetouched already in their world. Even fewer will allow silly stuff like lesser mechanatrix.

Godskook
2010-11-16, 03:17 PM
I doubt many DMs would allow those in actual play, though.

Any DM that allows LA buyoff for a normal Aasimar but doesn't allow a lesser Aasimar is crazy. In such situations, the normal one is almost strictly superior, due to better type, proficiencies, lacking the "counts as both" feature lesser Aasimars suffer, and the fact that XP is a river.

In the case of no buyoff......I'd argue that Aasimar is already over-costed and shouldn't be LA +1 to begin with.

And yes, DMs do allow that and more in actual play.

Sindri
2010-11-16, 03:30 PM
Unseelie Fey template from the Dragon Compendium

There isn't a LA (or even CR adjustment) listed; the template is cool but GMs are unlikely to allow it for PCs without tacking on some ridiculous LA.

Darrin
2010-11-16, 04:47 PM
Magic-Blooded is from Dragon Magazine 306.

The details should also be in the 3.0 templates on Crystalkeep.

Races with a Cha bonus:

Lesser Aasimar (Player's Guide to Faerun)
Savage Progression Aasimar (WotC article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a))
Star Elf (Unapproachable East)
Spellscale (Races of the Dragon)
Hellbred, Spirit option (Fiendish Codex II)

Shademan
2010-11-16, 04:49 PM
I always give half-elves =2 to Cha and -2 to wis (they are very impulsive)
so...ask yer DM

Thurbane
2010-11-16, 05:03 PM
Catfolk are from Races of the Wild.
Indeed...also, originally from the Miniatures Handbook.

Yeah, Catfolk are pretty underwhelming as a LA +1 race. :smallwink:
Tell it to the Hobgoblin! :smalltongue:

There isn't a LA (or even CR adjustment) listed; the template is cool but GMs are unlikely to allow it for PCs without tacking on some ridiculous LA.
Yes, this always struck me as an oversight...the errata fixed some other CR/LA discrepancies in the templates, but didn't mention Unseelie Fey. Should be a minimum +1 LA IMHO...

Thurbane
2010-11-16, 05:30 PM
The Draconic Creature template (RotD p.74) is not too bad: +2 STR, +2 COn and +2 CHA (among other things) for LA +1.

If you throw it on one of the +2 CHA -2 CON races above, you can get +2 STR and +4 CHA for LA +1.

Darrin
2010-11-16, 05:38 PM
Primordial Magic-Blooded Half-Giant (LA +1):
-2 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Int, -2 Wis, +6 Cha

Add Phrenic (LA +2) for +6 Int, +10 Cha.

Greenish
2010-11-16, 06:06 PM
Tell it to the Hobgoblin!Or to the blue. Or to the Arctic goblin.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-16, 06:18 PM
There isn't a LA (or even CR adjustment) listed; the template is cool but GMs are unlikely to allow it for PCs without tacking on some ridiculous LA.
The highlighted part is srong on both counts. Unseelie Fey template lists the following:

LA: +0 (in Dragon Compendium on page 222)
CR: +1 (in the Errata for the book)
Edit: The reason you likely missed the LA is that a bunch of template characteristics are buried at the end of the sample character with template applied. You can also pull out those template characteristics by removing the Gnome, 1st-Level Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm) characteristics.

Scorpions__
2010-11-16, 06:20 PM
Karsites from Tome of Magic also have a +2 to Cha and Con, but they can't be spellcasters... They do get spell resistance, spell healing, and magic draining attack however, and a bonus feat, and bonus skill points like humans do.

LA +2 however, but I like 'em.






DM[F]R

Sindri
2010-11-16, 06:24 PM
Wrong on both counts. Unseelie Fey template lists the following:

LA: +0 (in Dragon Compendium on page 222)
CR: +1 (in the Errata for the book)


...wow. Even with the +1d6 damage from iron/steel weapons, that seems low for all the bonuses they get. Definitely taking that one.


Primordial Magic-Blooded Half-Giant (LA +1):
-2 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Int, -2 Wis, +6 Cha

Add Phrenic (LA +2) for +6 Int, +10 Cha.

Book references please?

Thurbane
2010-11-16, 06:30 PM
Wrong on both counts. Unseelie Fey template lists the following:

LA: +0 (in Dragon Compendium on page 222)
CR: +1 (in the Errata for the book)

CR, but not LA? That screams wonky to me. It's usually the other way around.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-16, 06:42 PM
Even with the +1d6 damage from iron/steel weapons, that seems low for all the bonuses they get. Definitely taking that one.
Numerically, it's a wash: -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +2 Charisma. The single +4 racial bonus to Intimidate isn't out of line, either. It's the wings that provide the biggest incentive to take the class, and that's subject to individual DM OK because they can insist that your character is one of the 50% of Unseelie Fey who can't fly.

JaronK
2010-11-16, 06:55 PM
There isn't a LA (or even CR adjustment) listed; the template is cool but GMs are unlikely to allow it for PCs without tacking on some ridiculous LA.

Actually, it says an Unseelie Fey Gnome is 0LA. So, there is an LA listed, and it's 0.

The best would be a Venerable Dragonwrought Unseelie Fey Kobold. +5 Charisma (as well as +3 to other mental stats and a very nice Dex, but with Str and Con penalties), no LA, costs a feat.

JaronK

Thurbane
2010-11-16, 07:06 PM
Book references please?
I'm no expert on Eberron, but I believe Primordial Giant is in Secrets of Xen'drik? I'm also no expert on Psionics, but I believe Phrenic is Expanded Psionics Handbook, and also in the SRD.

Numerically, it's a wash: -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +2 Charisma. The single +4 racial bonus to Intimidate isn't out of line, either. It's the wings that provide the biggest incentive to take the class, and that's subject to individual DM OK because they can insist that your character is one of the 50% of Unseelie Fey who can't fly.
Don't forget Season's Power, one of four fairly powerful (Su) abilities...and DR/cold iron. Really, not many opponents are going to use cold iron weapons. Also, the possibility of Tremorsense or Blindsight. I would personally say it is quite a strong template for +0 LA. As I said earlier, I'm not sure of any other cases where a (playable) templates adds to CR but not to LA.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-16, 08:37 PM
Don't forget Season's Power, one of four fairly powerful (Su) abilities...and DR/cold iron. Really, not many opponents are going to use cold iron weapons. Season's Power can be useful, but given the situational dependencies it's hard to estimate the value of each of the abilities you have to choose from. DR/cold iron is nice, but it doesn't kick in until level 4 and the tradeoff is you've got to withstand an extra 1d6 of damage from most weapons so surviving until that point is a challenge.

Also, the possibility of Tremorsense or Blindsight. I would personally say it is quite a strong template for +0 LA. As I said earlier, I'm not sure of any other cases where a (playable) templates adds to CR but not to LA. I wouldn't want to get tremorsense or blindsight at the expense of all normal vision. It's hard to overcome being eyeless from birth: can't read, can't use any ability dependent on line of sight. :smallannoyed:

No, to my mind these abilities aren't too impressive. It's only the option to add wings to most creatures that's a pure bonus here and the reason Unseelie Fey is an attractive template.

Thurbane
2010-11-16, 08:47 PM
Season's Power can be useful, but given the situational dependencies it's hard to estimate the value of each of the abilities you have to choose from.
I agree with the part about eyes. And the +1d6 damage (I thought it was cold iron only, but re-reading I see it includes steel).

But most Season's Power abilities are pretty handy: Vernal Touch: at will ability to remove dazed, nauseated, fatigued or exhausted conditions. Also functions as Turn Undead (cleric level = HD-2).
Summer Carress: the equivalent of a continual Magic Circle Against Evil that only animals, fey and magical beasts get to ignore.
Autumn Harvest: range touch Dispel Magic (CL = HD) 1+CHA mod/day.
Winter Chill: inflict a penalty to saves equal to your CHA mod on all creatures within 5 feet.
I wouldn't call the majority of those particularly situational.

Compare what other LA +0 templates (like Dragonborn) get...I guess we have to agree to disagree. It definitely feels more like a +1 LA template to me.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-16, 09:26 PM
Summer Carress: the equivalent of a continual Magic Circle Against Evil that only animals, fey and magical beasts get to ignore.
Also plants, per the Errata file for the book.

JaronK
2010-11-16, 09:27 PM
Winter's Chill is absolutely amazing. That's what makes the template for me.

JaronK

Sindri
2010-11-16, 09:31 PM
Yeah, perpetual +2 to AC and saves, immunity to possession charm and compulsion, and imperiousness to summoned monsters is fairly valuable.
Autumn Harvest and Winter's Chill are also quite nice, depending on your build, because your Cha modifier is going to be huge. +1d6 damage from iron+steel hurts at low levels, but when they can't hit you and your damage reduction would take care of it anyway, it becomes less of an issue.

Darrin
2010-11-16, 09:42 PM
Book references please?

Primordial giant template is in Secrets of Xen'drik, pages 79-81.

Magic-Blooded has already been mentioned: Dragon #306.

Phrenic template is in the Expanded Psionics Handbook/SRD.

Thurbane
2010-11-16, 10:05 PM
So, Draconic Creature Unseelie Fey Phrenic Magic Blooded Promoridal Giant Half-Giant (+4 LA, -2 STR, +6 INT, +2 WIS, +14 CHA), or Draconic Creature Unseelie Fey Magic Blooded Lesser Aasimar (+1 LA, +2 DEX, +8 CHA)... :smalltongue:

AstralFire
2010-11-16, 10:06 PM
So, Draconic Creature Unseelie Fey Phrenic Magic Blooded Promoridal Giant Half-Giant (+3 LA, -2 STR, +6 INT, +2 WIS, +14 CHA), or Draconic Creature Unseelie Fey Magic Blooded Lesser Aasimar (+1 LA, +2 DEX, +8 CHA)... :smalltongue:

Interesting. It appears that when you stack enough different creature types, it defaults to 'Cheese.'

Thurbane
2010-11-16, 10:14 PM
Interesting. It appears that when you stack enough different creature types, it defaults to 'Cheese.'
Pretty much, yeah. I don't know any DM that would allow that much template stacking on a PC, FWIW...

Sindri
2010-11-16, 10:15 PM
Ooh, forgot about Draconic Creature. I think I'll skip Phrenic and Half-Giant; too much LA for too little benefit in my opinion. Incidentally, the first one you listed there would be +4 LA (+2 Phrenic, +1 Half-Giant, +1 Draconic).


Pretty much, yeah. I don't know any DM that would allow that much template stacking on a PC, FWIW...

I think that most GMs would allow that one; if you really want to waste four levels to get a +14 Cha you should probably be allowed to. Especially since you can get at least a +6 without any LA. Congratulations, while you're 1st level and have a +11 Cha bonus, I'm 5th level with a +7 Cha bonus. Have fun trying to survive on your single hit die and complete lack of combat ability (and no, you aren't better at talking to people, since I have 4 more ranks than you).

Thurbane
2010-11-16, 10:16 PM
Ooh, forgot about Draconic Creature. I think I'll skip Phrenic and Half-Giant; too much LA for too little benefit in my opinion. Incidentally, the first one you listed there would be +4 LA (+2 Phrenic, +1 Half-Giant, +1 Draconic).
Ah yes, forgot that 1/2 Giant was +1 LA...I never play psionic races. :smalltongue: