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Surgo
2010-11-16, 11:27 AM
Nothing serious here, just a couple holes I thought I saw in the available spells and decided to fill.

Freeze Blood
Necromancy [Death]
Level: Cleric 5, Sorcerer/Wizard 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell freezes in place blood, threads of magic, or whatever fluid or substance the target uses to survive. The subject of this spell immediately drops to -8 hit points and, unless someone makes a successful Heal check, provides magical healing, or a restoration spell, the subject drops to -9 in the following round. The round after that, the subject dies.

A successful Heal check or restoration does not cure any damage, but leaves the subject in whatever state he was in when the aid was given.

The Why: It occurred to me when I was playing a high-level character that there were times when you wanted to knock someone out so you could use them in the future (ie, Programmed Amnesia), but not kill them. There aren't many spells that will just render someone helpless in 3.5, so now there's this. As always, the spell and any updates therein can be found here on my wiki (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Freeze_Blood_%283.5e_Spell%29).


Prismatic Doom
Evocation
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 120 ft.
Area: One 10-ft. cube per level (S)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell is similar to prismatic spray. Creatures with 12 HD or less are automatically blinded for 2d4 rounds, and every creature in the area is struck by two or more flashes, which have the following effects.

{table=head]1d8|Color of Flash|Effect

1|Red|20 points fire damage (Reflex half)

2|Orange|40 points acid damage (Reflex half)

3|Yellow|80 points electricity damage (Reflex half)

4|Green|Poison (Kills; Fortitude partial, take 1d6 points of Con damage instead)

5|Blue|Turned to stone (Fortitude negates)

6|Indigo|Insane, as insanity spell (Will negates)

7|Violet|Sent to another plane (Will negates)

8|-|Struck by three rays; roll again, ignoring any 8 results.
[/table]

The Why: 9th level is missing a decent evocation spell. At this level you have to compete with stuff like Wail of the Banshee. Prismatic Doom lets you do that; it's not a guaranteed kill on a failed save like Wail is, but it makes up for that by being a bit more flexible with the area (shapeable cubes). As always, you can find it and updated version on this page on my wiki (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Prismatic_Doom_%283.5e_Spell%29).

T.G. Oskar
2010-11-16, 04:11 PM
Nothing serious here, just a couple holes I thought I saw in the available spells and decided to fill.

Freeze Blood
Necromancy [Death]
Level: Cleric 5, Sorcerer/Wizard 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell freezes in place blood, threads of magic, or whatever fluid or substance the target uses to survive. The subject of this spell immediately drops to -8 hit points and, unless someone makes a successful Heal check, provides magical healing, or a restoration spell, the subject drops to -9 in the following round. The round after that, the subject dies.

A successful Heal check or restoration does not cure any damage, but leaves the subject in whatever state he was in when the aid was given.

The Why: It occurred to me when I was playing a high-level character that there were times when you wanted to knock someone out so you could use them in the future (ie, Programmed Amnesia), but not kill them. There aren't many spells that will just render someone helpless in 3.5, so now there's this. As always, the spell and any updates therein can be found here on my wiki (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Freeze_Blood_%283.5e_Spell%29).

Hmm...so it's a save or die that allows you to kill someone in three turns? Because, while it allows the creature to be unconscious almost instantly, you essentially drive it to the point of death and you require something like Heal (something that very rarely one of your characters may have, since it's not THAT effective) in order to keep the creature "safe" (questionably as it may be). Chain Freeze Blood and you have a mass TPK in your hands.

Also...while it "freezes" your blood, I see nothing that supports that. I'd love to see a [Cold, Death] descriptors' spell, and Freeze Blood may seem like the right thing.

I'd make it so that you reduce the enemy to -1 with a failed save (hence, it's helpless but can still survive), but automatically stabilizes. That way, you make the opponent helpless and essentially can leave it for dead, but not threaten it to actual death. Make it so that cold creatures gain a bonus to their will saves or even actual immunity based on their degree of resistance: creatures with resistance to cold gain a +2 to their saves, creatures with immunity to cold are immune to the spell (since how you can freeze something that's frozen, unless you want Lord Kelvin's famous 0 degree...) and creatures vulnerable to cold have a penalty on their saves. That makes it a potentially deadly, but still useful, spell (you chill their very soul, which manifests as a cold upon their bones and their blood, or their sap, which makes them fall unconscious instantly).


Prismatic Doom
Evocation
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 120 ft.
Area: One 10-ft. cube per level (S)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell is similar to prismatic spray. Creatures with 12 HD or less are automatically blinded for 2d4 rounds, and every creature in the area is struck by two or more flashes, which have the following effects.

{table=head]1d8|Color of Flash|Effect

1|Red|20 points fire damage (Reflex half)

2|Orange|40 points acid damage (Reflex half)

3|Yellow|80 points electricity damage (Reflex half)

4|Green|Poison (Kills; Fortitude partial, take 1d6 points of Con damage instead)

5|Blue|Turned to stone (Fortitude negates)

6|Indigo|Insane, as insanity spell (Will negates)

7|Violet|Sent to another plane (Will negates)

8|-|Struck by three rays; roll again, ignoring any 8 results.
[/table]

The Why: 9th level is missing a decent evocation spell. At this level you have to compete with stuff like Wail of the Banshee. Prismatic Doom lets you do that; it's not a guaranteed kill on a failed save like Wail is, but it makes up for that by being a bit more flexible with the area (shapeable cubes). As always, you can find it and updated version on this page on my wiki (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Prismatic_Doom_%283.5e_Spell%29).

I half-expected Evocation's master spell to be something like what the Psions get: mutable emanations of energy with a rider effect. Wail of the Banshee is the least of the problems in here: Gate, Wish and Time Stop are the master spells in here. The amount of HD that allows for immediate blindness is too small (almost ineffective since by level 17 you'll have creatures with nearly twice that amount of HD). I'd augment that somewhat like Holy Word, with [CL] amount of HD auto-blinding and [CL x 2] amount of HD given a Reflex save or something against blindness.

Still: aside from that minor quirk, it's a reasonably placed spell. Evocation needs a few save-or-die spells that cannot be replicated by Shadow Evocation, and this is a pretty decent one. Allowing 2 effects instead of one, with an increased potential for 3 effects can be pretty devastating. I'd mostly rework the damage (too little fire damage, too little acid damage, mostly noticeable electricity damage), but that would require reworking the spell to make it CL dependant.

All in all, with some work they may be useful spells.

Surgo
2010-11-16, 04:25 PM
Freeze Blood
Interesting point on making Freeze Blood a [Cold] spell as well as a [Death] spell -- I hadn't thought of that. You are entirely right that it's a save-or-die that takes a few rounds to activate, that's actually the point. It's no more damaging by chaining in that regard than a Slay Living with divine reach (can't remember where you get that, but I know it's available somewhere), and that's still a way higher level than a single Stinking Cloud (remove from combat effect which is effectively the same thing), but with this you get a helpless effect.

To summarize: I really like the idea of bonuses/penalties based on cold immunity and the [Cold] subtype. Not so convinced that it's too good when chained though, for reasons stated.

Prismatic Doom
Immediate blindness criticism is apt, and what you proposed is an interesting mechanic. Way better than the nonsense I copied it from (Prismatic Spray); really, I think that spell should have that mechanic back-ported.

You're right about the damage, this needs to be just totally disconnected from earlier opposition. I'm tempted to make it a flat 60 for each of the three damage colors. Prismatic Spray is pretty silly in how it scales up.

It certainly doesn't compare to the Big Three you stated, but I don't think I'm capable as a designer of making a competing Evocation spell for those.

T.G. Oskar
2010-11-16, 04:59 PM
Freeze Blood
Interesting point on making Freeze Blood a [Cold] spell as well as a [Death] spell -- I hadn't thought of that. You are entirely right that it's a save-or-die that takes a few rounds to activate, that's actually the point. It's no more damaging by chaining in that regard than a Slay Living with divine reach (can't remember where you get that, but I know it's available somewhere), and that's still a way higher level than a single Stinking Cloud (remove from combat effect which is effectively the same thing), but with this you get a helpless effect.

To summarize: I really like the idea of bonuses/penalties based on cold immunity and the [Cold] subtype. Not so convinced that it's too good when chained though, for reasons stated.

Thing is, it's a literal save-or-die spell on a school that has quite a lot of them. Necromancy, being a school devoted to debuffing and death, has a lot of SoD/SoL/SoS spells at its disposal, and what you essentially get is a spell that isn't entirely placing someone helpless or a spell that isn't killing them instantly. It's...fitting as a "Slow Death" spell, but it doesn't fit your rationale (a spell that renders the creature unconscious but not entirely dead); it requires a Heal check or a healing spell to fit your rationale. As it stands, it's a pretty bare-bones SoD, when you get Slay Living and Finger of Death eventually which eclipse the benefit of this spell.

Making it [Cold] isn't enough. Now, if it were...I dunno, a Transmutation spell, it would be very effective. If it allowed you to deal cold damage (maybe 3d6, sorta like Disintegrate) it would be magnificent, since it would have many uses. If it had a larger range between your negative HP and death, it would be much more useful as a "disabling" spell: you would cause the creature to fall unconscious, victim to a coup-de-grace or another damaging spell (heck, even a simple attack causes instant death in that regard, not to mention Swift Death Knell to instantly slay the creature). But it would allow someone without a decent Heal check to have some time to heal him, or enough time for the party to finish the battle and keep that creature in check. It's just an odd rationale for what you want it (a honest-to-goodness save or die spell), which is why I felt it was a bit odd.

If you're not willing to reduce the amount of damage, at least leave it to chance. Instead of exactly taking the enemy to -8, make it reach exactly 0 HP and then the enemy takes 1d8 points of damage; that is a bit more elegant, which is what you want with the spell (and if lucky, you get the creature to die in three turns).

IMO, this works better as a Transmutation spell, or as a Necromancy/Transmutation spell (specifically, a Necromancy/Transmutation [Cold, Death] spell), which allows a Fort save, causes the enemy to reach 0 HP and then it deals 1d8 points of cold damage (or half cold/half negative energy); if the creature succeeds on the save, it takes 3d6 (or something similar) cold damage, and resistance to cold makes the spell a bit less useful, while vulnerability to cold makes the spell especially deadly. It also fits what you seek from it (blood freezes, which is a transmutation effect; it doesn't "freeze" of fear as would befit Necromancy), and would make the spell a bit more closer to your rationale (allows a creature to be left unconscious but stable, which would be used later on to allow interrogation or something along those lines). It's just that I'd barely see the spell used as a disabling spell, but essentially as a death spell a few levels earlier than Slay Living or Finger of Death (but later than Phantasmal Killer or Cloudkill).


Prismatic Doom
Immediate blindness criticism is apt, and what you proposed is an interesting mechanic. Way better than the nonsense I copied it from (Prismatic Spray); really, I think that spell should have that mechanic back-ported.

You're right about the damage, this needs to be just totally disconnected from earlier opposition. I'm tempted to make it a flat 60 for each of the three damage colors. Prismatic Spray is pretty silly in how it scales up.

It certainly doesn't compare to the Big Three you stated, but I don't think I'm capable as a designer of making a competing Evocation spell for those.

Actually, I mentioned the Big Three only to tell just how unfair these are, and how Evocation desperately needs a spell like that. Fortunately. Miracle (the fourth Big spell) is an Evocation spell, so there you have it. However, there isn't a real big spell in terms of Evocation; this is a good idea, but it works on what you expect a Wizard or Sorcerer to cast, not what you expect an Evoker to cast. It IS flashy, and that's awesome, but you'd otherwise want massive explosions (a la Implosion, which is ALSO an Evocation spell...notice that the two best 9th level Evocation spells are given to the Cleric?) or manifestations of energy unlike nothing else (a la Storm of Vengeance). By no means this spell is bad; quite excellent, actually, but it wouldn't be considered an iconic Evocation spell such as, say, Meteor Swarm (which, as it works, should have been a Conjuration spell, but it's mostly a bludgeoning Fireball x4 with reduced power).

So don't worry; it's not a spell to rival the Big Four (adding Miracle to the list), but it doesn't have to rival it. It's Evocation, it's an SoD, it's a very good SoD, it's a very random SoD, and it's a very pretty area SoD. What's not to like?

Surgo
2010-11-16, 05:40 PM
I see what you mean now for Freeze Blood, and I like the ideas you have and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. I'll update the spells on the wiki post haste.

bloodtide
2010-11-16, 06:14 PM
Freeze Blood It occurred to me when I was playing a high-level character that there were times when you wanted to knock someone out so you could use them in the future (ie, Programmed Amnesia), but not kill them. There aren't many spells that will just render someone helpless in 3.5, so now there's this.

So in order to fill the hole of no 'make them helpless' spells, you make a spell that kills people? Why not make a spell that simply makes them helpless? How about just 'freezing' the blood, more like a buffed up hold person...but not an ultimate death spell. Sure sometimes you want to grab someone alive, but you don't need to run the risk of killing them. Someone who used this spell, and got distracted for even a minute would kill the subject....forever.





This spell freezes in place blood, threads of magic, or whatever fluid or substance the target uses to survive.

This is a bit of Problem Fluff. Can the spell effect any creature? Does the creature have to have blood or liquid? What is 'threads of magic'? Can this spell effect constructs or elementals, for example.








Prismatic Doom[

This spell is fine.

T.G. Oskar
2010-11-16, 08:46 PM
So in order to fill the hole of no 'make them helpless' spells, you make a spell that kills people? Why not make a spell that simply makes them helpless? How about just 'freezing' the blood, more like a buffed up hold person...but not an ultimate death spell. Sure sometimes you want to grab someone alive, but you don't need to run the risk of killing them. Someone who used this spell, and got distracted for even a minute would kill the subject....forever.

Well, that was something I was debating with Surgo; it's not more of a "helpless" type of spell (a la Hold Person), but rather a "save or unconscious" spell, which seems to be his intention from the very beginning. I was debating that the range of negative hit points was far too narrow, and apparently he's fixing that.

Having said that, it "could" be used for immediate unconsciousness. The idea is that you'll have to heal the creature afterwards, or else everything gets ruined. However, it can also be an immediate kill spell, an SoD proper, but with a success condition effect; this is usually a problem with most SoD's, and makes Freeze Blood a bit less binary, and much more offensive.

That, of course, still makes the spell not work as purely intended (unlike, say, Whelm which works taking someone from 1 to unconscious with non-lethal damage, or Greater Rebuke which is just nasty), but allows the spell to work nonetheless.


This is a bit of Problem Fluff. Can the spell effect any creature? Does the creature have to have blood or liquid? What is 'threads of magic'? Can this spell effect constructs or elementals, for example.

Um...that's the intention, I believe. You affect all creatures (which should, of course, make the spell a bit higher in level), whether they have blood (the usual way to sum the effect of the spell), their animating energy (although, being a spell that allows a Fort save, it still won't work on undead; it may not work on constructs either), or their source of existence (their "threads of magic", in the case of elementals).

As it stands, it won't affect undead (because they're immune to death effects) and constructs (since the spell allows a Fort save, to which they're immune IIRC, and apparently the spell doesn't work on objects), but it should affect anything else not immune to instant death spells. Note that, since undead and constructs are usually mindless and destroyed when reaching 0 hp, there's no reason why to use it on them anyways.


I see what you mean now for Freeze Blood, and I like the ideas you have and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. I'll update the spells on the wiki post haste.

Newsletter? Um...well, if you refer to the homebrewer's sig, it's not like you need to subscribe or something... And I don't have a newsletter or the like.

Surgo
2010-11-16, 08:55 PM
Newsletter? Um...well, if you refer to the homebrewer's sig, it's not like you need to subscribe or something... And I don't have a newsletter or the like.
It was a joke; just a "I like your opinions" kind of thing.


As far as affecting any creature -- yes, at this point, unless they're immune to effects that allow a Fortitude save (which undead are). Though I'm tempted to perhaps change it to Will...ugh, I really hate the blanket undead immunity. I should probably just keep the Fortitude and depend on the Tome of Necromancy (which I use in all my games) to turn that immunity into something that makes more sense for individual undead creatures.