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tzeus
2010-11-16, 12:07 PM
Hello everybody!
So, i am new the hole d&d concept .. only played 3 sessions so far and i kind of liked it. Well last session was so uber, i accidently turned from a druid into a blighter, but i ended up dead lol. So i must make a new character now...
I am glad this happened because my abilities were very very low... smallest being 8, and highest being 14 or 15.

Now i have these scores:

11 14 15 16 17 17. Pretty neat if you ask me. I have to create a lvl 10 char and i decided to go for a rogue 5/invisible blade 5. DM already agreed to go with the unErrated version of IBlade, so every round will be a sneak attack.
I need help with skills to be honest... I want to be able to lie,steal, hide, move in shadows ... but no matter how i look at the skills i can't quite fit them all in :). I want so many of them. So little help... So far i have figured this out:

STR - 15
DEX - 17
CON - 14
INT - 17
WIZ - 11
CHR - 16

For feats i will go with:
Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus(dagger), Weapon Finesse, Force of Personality(Adds your Charisma modifier to your Will Saves instead of your Wisdom modifier.)

Now i know i will max out Use Magic Device(still don't know why completely), Bluff, Sense Motive, Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of hand.

I want some points in Search, Disable Device, Listen, Spot, Open Lock, Tumble.

I saw there that Diplomacy is recommended, but why use Diplomacy when i have bluff?

I wanted some points in climb, jump, swim but after reading the rogue handbook i don't know anymore.

Point out what else should i choose or not choose and why please.

As for items i have some money ... and i decided to buy:

Boots of speed
Gloves of dex +2
Cloak of chr +2
Dagger +1 wounding
Studded Leather +1

I`m short of some money but i am sure that i will handle it well.. I`m sure i can live without wounding a few quests.

So ... Opinions ? I am pretty sure i want this setup, i was unsure if i should go rogue 10 | rogue5/invisible blade 5, but now i know.

Need help with skills and things to buy that could prove useful.

Thanks all for help!

Grynning
2010-11-16, 12:16 PM
Needs moar Master Thrower. It combos nicely with Invisible Blade. If you have ToB available, you can power up any rogue build by dipping Swordsage and getting Assassin's Stance and the Shadow Blade feat.

Don't worry too much about your skills, you should have plenty as a Rogue. Diplomacy is cheesy and broken, which is why people often recommend it, but it's not needed for the stealthy character, let the party face handle that. Stick to Bluff and your Roguely duties of Disable Device and Open Lock. The reason you MAX USE MAGIC DEVICE is because it lets you use wands and scrolls for spells that can buff you in combat or solve out of combat problems. Just read through the 1st through 5th level spells in the spell compendium, and PHB 1 and 2 and you'll start to figure it out. Grease, Glitterdust, Wraithstrike, etc. etc. etc.

tzeus
2010-11-16, 12:26 PM
I just read the description of use magic device, and it seems quite difficult to read a scroll.... Let's assume i will want to jump, first i have to decipher it, than read it?
And let's assume the next situation... I am near a castle i want to be able to infiltrate so i will probably need climb, jump and(knowing the DM) why not swim/use rope... Do i have a separate way of getting those except from skills(i already saw the jump spell but how about the others?). If i can buy them some how, i would completely drop these skills form the page, and focus on others.

The reason i wanted to keep rogue 5/invisible blade 5 is that at level 5 the rogue has a sneak attack of 3d6, and so has the invisible blade. So i have a 6d6 sneak attack every time i hit... Considering this will happen 3 times a round it feels very nice considering i will have lots of social skills.

P.S. What is ToB ?

dsmiles
2010-11-16, 12:30 PM
Tome of Battle: the Book of Nine Swords = ToB.

There's also a pretty nifty PrC for Halflings in Races of the Wild. Whisperknife combos nicely with both IB and Master Thrower.

Grynning
2010-11-16, 12:47 PM
I just read the description of use magic device, and it seems quite difficult to read a scroll.... Let's assume i will want to jump, first i have to decipher it, than read it?
And let's assume the next situation... I am near a castle i want to be able to infiltrate so i will probably need climb, jump and(knowing the DM) why not swim/use rope... Do i have a separate way of getting those except from skills(i already saw the jump spell but how about the others?). If i can buy them some how, i would completely drop these skills form the page, and focus on others.


Scrolls require you to decipher them in advance, but low level spells aren't too hard to cast with a decent check at level 10. Wands are even easier to use and let you pack your common spells with you all the time in a convenient package, just require judicious spending of your wealth. I definitely recommend carrying a Wand of Wraithstrike (lets you make all your melee attacks touch attacks for one round). Master Thrower 5 lets you make your ranged attacks touch attacks as well, so you never really need to worry about those pesky armor bonuses to AC.

As for emulating skills - Spider Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spiderClimb.htm), Water Walk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/waterWalk.htm), and Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm) can get you into and out of most places pretty easily. There's plenty more from Spell Compendium that can help you with mobility. Oh yeah, and Knock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/knock.htm) is generally better than an Open Lock check in any situation except an AMF. Magic really can do everything that skills can better in 3.5 (one of many people's complaints about the system).

Last Laugh
2010-11-16, 12:48 PM
most notably it has a 10' flanking range with throwing weapons. No other class is gonna do that.

gorfnab
2010-11-16, 02:37 PM
Here are some builds I made for a friend looking for a similar type of character. Basically they're all Invisible Blade dagger throwing maniacs that can throw 16 daggers per round at level 20.

Invisible Blade 1
Halfling
1. Rogue - Halfling Rogue RS - Point Blank Shot
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Precise Shot
4. Rogue - Halfling Rogue RS
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Two Weapon Fighting
7. Fighter - B: Weapon Focus Dagger
8. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
9. Master Thrower - Far Shot
10. Whisperknife - B: Rapid Shot
11. Whisperknife
12. Whisperknife - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical Dagger, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Halfling Rogue Racial Substitution - Races of the Wild page 160
Whisperknife - Races of the Wild page 135
Swashbuckler - Complete Warrior page 11
Master Thrower - Complete Warrior page 58
Invisible Blade - Complete Warrior page 45

Master Thrower weapon triks - Palm Throw (level 8), Two With One Blow (13), Weak Spot (15)



Invisible Blade 2

Strongheart Halfling
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Craven
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Two Weapon Fighting
7. Fighter - B: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
8. Fighter - B: Far Shot
9. Swordsage - B: Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand weapons, Shadow Blade
10. Swordsage
11. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
12. Master Thrower - Rapid Shot
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Strongheart Halfling from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting page 17 or 18
Craven feat from Champions of Ruin page 17
Swordsage from Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords page 15
Shadow Blade feat from Tome of Battle page 32
Penetrating Strike Alternate Class Feature from Dungeonscape page 13


Invisible Blade 3
Strongheart Halfling
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Craven, Far Shot, 2x Flaws
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Two Weapon Fighting
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF(DS)
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swordsage - B: Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand weapons, Shadowblade
7. Swashbuckler
8. Fighter - Targeteer ACF - Vital Aim
9. Fighter - Targeteer ACF - Rapid Shot, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Swordsage
11. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
12. Master Thrower - Dead Eye (DragMag 304)
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Love of Nature flaw from Dragon Magazine #324 page 93
Loud Mouth flaw from Dragon Magazine #324 page 98
Targeteer ACF and Vital Aim from Dragon Magazine #310 page 39
Dead Eye feat from Dragon Magazine #304 page 84

tzeus
2010-11-17, 03:46 AM
I am not interested that much in trowing weapons daggers, i kinda like the sneak attack with dagger, but i think i will take a level in The Swashbuckler because of the free Weapon Finesse feat, and i pick up another level in rogue later for the 3d6 sneak attack(obtained at level 5).

Any other must have feats/skills for rogues?

tzeus
2010-11-18, 03:58 PM
Well, i decided that i will remain a level 5 rogue / level 5 invisible blade but i still have problems regarding skill points. Maybe you guys can give me a hand.
I attached a google spreadsheet that anyone can edit.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Al04esH56fWxdGpNOTFOemwxUFBZUWdOeF9ZMnMtW mc&hl=en&authkey=CO6r9a4N#gid=0

Just click the link and fill in one of the columns with your chosen skills if you were me.

There are a total of 130 skill points available.

Thanks all for interest!

Jarveiyan
2010-11-18, 10:50 PM
Unless your intelligence got raised at level 4 and 8 I count 123 skill points you should have(if your intelligence didn't started at lower than 16, then that number should be lower).

tzeus
2010-11-19, 04:26 AM
Ok, i have mistaken, i forgot to say i`m a human rogue ... and i have 17 int at lvl1 and 18 at level 4. So the calculus for the points is like this

At level 1 i have:

4x(8+3) +4 = 48

At levels 2 and 3 i have 8+3(int)+1(human) = 12

At level 4 and 5 i have 8+4(int)+1 = 13

At levels 6,7,8,9 and 10 i have 4 + 4 + 1 = 9

So in total i have 48 + (2x12) + (2x13) + (5x9) = 48+24+26+45 = 143 point in total. So i guess i have some extra points to think of...

The sheet is still open for editing, anyone who want to express his opinion is welcome.

Thanks!

P.S. This is the spreadsheet:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Al04esH56fWxdGpNOTFOemwxUFBZUWdOeF9ZMnMtW mc&hl=en&authkey=CO6r9a4N#gid=0

Jarveiyan
2010-11-20, 06:16 AM
There is something else I'm confused about, If IB doesn't get UMD as a class skill how are you guys maxing it out at 13 ranks(especially since the last 5 levels are IB)? I think you need to first spend your rogue skills then spend your IB skills so this mistake doesn't happen.

tzeus
2010-11-22, 08:04 AM
You are right man, nice catch. The truth is i never looked at the IB class skills, I just assumed they were the same. As i told before i am very new at D&D. I will review the skill points selection :).