Tarquin's Party

[Stegyre]

Now that we see them, what classes?

Tarquin: some sort of fighter, but I cannot imagine him being a straight fighter like Roy.
Malack: already known: Cleric
Sword-&-Board Guy (currently in EoT): Fighter-type
Cat Girl (currently in EoS): Rogue-type (dang, almost typed Rouge-type)
Muffled Guy (currently in EoT): we've seen that sort of style before, what does it represent?
Yellow Robe (currently in EoS): floaty Ioun stones, I'm thinking Psion.

[martianmister]

Muffled guy is a wizard from this strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0757.html

I think there must be some similarities with Linear Guild.

[Hardcore]

Good catch!

[Stegyre]

Muffled guy is a wizard from this strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0757.html

I think there must be some similarities with Linear Guild.

It is a good catch . . . but is it a wizard? Not everyone who wields a wand is a wizard, and I'm thinking some UMD expert may be the order of the day.

But definitely a good catch, and places wife number "something blue" prior to the EoB period, when the party was still physically together. (And also highlights at least one of Tarquin's adventuring companion's complicity in his marital endeavors.)

[zimmerwald1915]

But definitely a good catch, and places wife number "something blue" prior to the EoB period, when the party was still physically together.
Not necessarily. They could have switched up the Tarquin/Malack and Armor/Scarf combos at one point, and indeed could juggle every few years, whenever they arrange for their Empires to get toppled.

[suszterpatt]

It is a good catch . . . but is it a wizard? Not everyone who wields a wand is a wizard, and I'm thinking some UMD expert may be the order of the day.

But definitely a good catch, and places wife number "something blue" prior to the EoB period, when the party was still physically together. (And also highlights at least one of Tarquin's adventuring companion's complicity in his marital endeavors.)Makes sense though, otherwise the party has no arcane caster.

[Kurald Galain]

Yellow Robe (currently in EoS): floaty Ioun stones, I'm thinking Psion.

She could be Illumian.

[Bibliomancer]

Tarquin: some sort of fighter, but I cannot imagine him being a straight fighter like Roy.

He probably also has levels of rogue, given his social (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html) skills (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0723.html) and how light he is on his feet in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0756.html) fight [due to either dexterity or dodge bonuses].



Muffled Guy (currently in EoT): we've seen that sort of style before, what does it represent?

Personally, he reminds me more or an assassin, (he looks similar to this (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060809) assassin) but being a spellcaster of some type would make sense, given that it would mean that each pair of operatives would be a caster-mundane pairing.


Yellow Robe (currently in EoS): floaty Ioun stones, I'm thinking Psion.

Technically, Ioun stones are a magical item that don't have to be associated with psions, but they seem to fit with the whole psionic-crystal schtick.

[The Glyphstone]

What about Redcloak having to go through all that work to find out if they were even using Psionics in this campaign world?

[Kurald Galain]

What about Redcloak having to go through all that work to find out if they were even using Psionics in this campaign world?

Maybe he's never been on the western continent?

[Xefas]

Personally, he reminds me more or an assassin, (he looks similar to this (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060809) assassin) but being a spellcaster of some type would make sense, given that it would mean that each pair of operatives would be a caster-mundane pairing.


Assassins (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) are spellcasters, though. They get up to 4th level spells. Though my vote would still be for Wizard who just happens to wear some kind of wrapping.

[Gift Jeraff]

The only core base class (discounting multiclassing) Tarquin can be, due to alignment and the weapons we have seen him use, is fighter, right?

Though for some reason I want him to be a psychic warrior. Just to add to that joke in #749 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0749.html).

[Stegyre]

Personally, he reminds me more or an assassin, (he looks similar to this (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060809) assassin) but being a spellcaster of some type would make sense, given that it would mean that each pair of operatives would be a caster-mundane pairing.
Or shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html)?

Spell thief could be yet another option.

[suszterpatt]

Assassins (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) are spellcasters, though. They get up to 4th level spells. Though my vote would still be for Wizard who just happens to wear some kind of wrapping.Why would a rogue/assassin wear robes though? People in the OotS world usually wear clothes that fit their class.

[archon_huskie]

Or shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html)?

Spell thief could be yet another option.

T - h - i - e -f

[JoeSkull]

Why would a rogue/assassin wear robes though? People in the OotS world usually wear clothes that fit their class.

why would an assassin wear stuff that makes him look like an assassin??
or at least a good assassin...

[zimmerwald1915]

Why would a rogue/assassin wear robes though? People in the OotS world usually wear clothes that fit their class.
On the other hand, Crystal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html) was an Assassin, and her dress was...informed by stylistic sensibilities other than her class.

[dps]

Or shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html)?



That was my first thought as well, but I'm not sure.

[martianmister]

An interesting thought:

Elan - Nale - Girard - Tarquin
Roy - Thog - Soon Kim - Sword-&-Board Guy
Haley - Sabine - Serini - Catgirl
Vaarsuvius - Zz'dtri/Pompey - Dorukan - Yellow Robe or Muffled Guy
Belkar - Yikyik/Yokyok - Kroagar - ?
Durkon - Hilgya/Leeky - Lirian - Malack

[suszterpatt]

On the other hand, Crystal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html) was an Assassin, and her dress was...informed by stylistic sensibilities other than her class.Technically, that still counts as leather armor. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html)

[zimmerwald1915]

Technically, that still counts as leather armor. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html)
So? We're talking about Assassins that don't necessarily look the part. Just looking at Crystal, knowing nothing of her personality, job, or class abilities, the first thing my mind says is not "hey, look, an Assassin."

EDIT: also, Crystal relied on magic jewelry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html) for protection. While that doesn't eliminate the need for armor, she might not have been wearing any.

[suszterpatt]

Perhaps I should clarify... what I meant was, I don't think we've ever seen someone wear lighter armor than the heaviest they're proficient with. So the reason Muffle Guy is wearing robes is because he's not proficient with armor.

[Feliks878]

Assuming we could dance away from core as far as we wanted (which seems to be the case, Catfolk are pretty far out there), I would really want Tarquin to be a Paladin of Tyranny (The Lawful Evil Paladin variant). It would explain his martial skill as well as his high charisma.

[Miklus]

An interesting thought:

Elan - Nale - Girard - Tarquin
Roy - Thog - Soon Kim - Sword-&-Board Guy
Haley - Sabine - Serini - Catgirl
Vaarsuvius - Zz'dtri/Pompey - Dorukan - Yellow Robe or Muffled Guy
Belkar - Yikyik/Yokyok - Kroagar - ?
Durkon - Hilgya/Leeky - Lirian - Malack

That was exactly what I thought when I saw the party lined up like that. "Yellow Robe" - >Vaarsuvius
"Muffled Guy" - > Belkar.

Muffled guy is probably an assassin.... Or maybe a monk just to annoy Belkar.

[Mando Knight]

He probably also has levels of rogue, given his social (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html) skills (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0723.html) and how light he is on his feet in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0756.html) fight [due to either dexterity or dodge bonuses].

It's even possible he's a Fighter/Rogue/Blackguard, given his sons' tendencies toward gish-like builds and his use of armor (medium?)... or a Lawful Bard variant (stupid restriction anyway: "I follow THE LAW, and therefore cannot sing or tell stories of heroes past to encourage my allies.")...

Or he could be a non-core class, or possibly... a Paladin of Tyranny.

[Gift Jeraff]

Since paladin has been used as a synonym for "good guy" various times in the comic, I doubt paladins of tyranny or slaughter are in play. Though I guess all it would require is a "Hey, I wasn't aware the variant paladin rules were being used!" joke to explain it away.

[Stegyre]

T - h - i - e -f
S - m - a - r - t - a -

No. Actually, I asked for that. :smallwink:

[Draconi Redfir]

empires of blood sweat and tears... how did i only just notice that?


p.s. catchick is hawt

[Coidzor]

So... Who wants to bet that if we see the Catfolk again, it'll be to see her get killed by physics?


It's even possible he's a Fighter/Rogue/Blackguard, given his sons' tendencies toward gish-like builds and his use of armor (medium?)... or a Lawful Bard variant (stupid restriction anyway: "I follow THE LAW (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycmH1tMp_0s), and therefore cannot sing or tell stories of heroes past to encourage my allies.")...

Or he could be a non-core class, or possibly... a Paladin of Tyranny.

Fixed that for ya. :smallbiggrin:

[DSCrankshaw]

While we're at it, what should we call Tarquin's party. We've got the Order of the Stick, the Order of the Scribble, the Linear Guild, ... I like using Guild again for another evil party.

[Draconi Redfir]

the guild of blood sweat and tears.

or the Blood, evil, Sweat, Tears Guiild. (a.k.a "the BeST Guild"))

[SPoD]

While we're at it, what should we call Tarquin's party. We've got the Order of the Stick, the Order of the Scribble, the Linear Guild, ... I like using Guild again for another evil party.

Since they all control empires, how about "the Imperial Guild"?

I think we may likely never find out their classes unless they enter the story in person. I think all we need to know is that each team has one caster and one martial character.

[zimmerwald1915]

The Ring of Blood Sweat and Tears. Or rBST.

Mostly because of the cows.

[Saint Nil]

For Tarquin's class perhaps we are looking at the wrong edition here. The giant said he would mix-and-match what was best for the story rather than the rules of the game.

Tactician? Check.
Charisma? Check.
Fighter? Check.

The Warlord class (or a 3.5version) doesn't
t seem too far of, especially considering what he is.

[Gift Jeraff]

The Fellowship of the [Iron] Fist!

(I was trying to think of L______ Guild to go along with the Order of the S______, but couldn't come up with anything. :smallfrown:)

[zimmerwald1915]

The Fellowship of the [Iron] Fist!

(I was trying to think of L______ Guild to go along with the Order of the S______, but couldn't come up with anything. :smallfrown:)
Lawful Evild? There's not too much different between Ev and Gu. And both are countries in the world of Oz, for extra plusses.

EDIT: hey, Barbarian!

[iowaforever]

What about Redcloak having to go through all that work to find out if they were even using Psionics in this campaign world?

i seem to remember Roy's mom referencing a book called "The Little Psion that Could", meaning that someone would have to be using Psionics in order to write a book about one. Also, Haley said her head felt like a Psion after doing some "psiony stuff" when she was hung over

i think Redcloak was referring to possibly goblins using psionics, but that's just what i think

[Hawk7915]

It's even possible he's a Fighter/Rogue/Blackguard, given his sons' tendencies toward gish-like builds and his use of armor (medium?)... or a Lawful Bard variant (stupid restriction anyway: "I follow THE LAW, and therefore cannot sing or tell stories of heroes past to encourage my allies.")...

Or he could be a non-core class, or possibly... a Paladin of Tyranny.
I like this theory, mostly because of the set up in #756 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0756.html); Elan jokes that he doesn't like surprises that deny your dodge bonus to AC...and then we see Tarquin, surprised, still dodging away. It seems like he's got to have class levels in something that grants Uncanny Dodge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm#uncannyDodge), and he seems way too lawful to be a Barbarian. He could be a Warblade, I suppose. But the Fighter/Rogue/Blackguard build also completes the "cycle" of all the people being multiclassed gishes of sorts in that slot (Bard/Dashing Swordsman, Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer, Wizard/Ranger, and then this).

And yes, I know I'm not clever and that's probably been pointed out already :smalltongue:

[veti]

Since they control the empires of Blood, Sweat and Tears, and since they do it by deceit, I'd like to call them the Guild of Dishonest Toil.

[Drolyt]

I'm fairly certain Tarquin is a Gish of some sort. Elan is a Bard/Dashing Swordsman and Nale is a Fighter/Sorcerer/Rogue, so Tarquin should be something similar. Blackguard might fit, but Blackguard is for card carrying villains who make deals with evil outsiders. Tarquin is definitely evil, but he's affably evil (although Tarquin ending up working for the three fiends would be a nice twist). I definitely think there is some Sorcerer in there though, and his build is almost certainly not as laughable as his sons' (although as I've pointed out before Fighter/Sorcerer/Rogue could be a strong build, Nale just doesn't do it right). Thing is, both of his sons have spontaneous casting ability, which is supposed to run in the family (more strongly implied for Sorcerers of course, but Bards can take many Sorcerer PRCs). Of course, he also appears to wear heavy armor, which limits his options if he isn't using a PRC of some sort.

[Poppy Appletree]

Perhaps I should clarify... what I meant was, I don't think we've ever seen someone wear lighter armor than the heaviest they're proficient with. So the reason Muffle Guy is wearing robes is because he's not proficient with armor.

*Cough*Roy*cough*

[suszterpatt]

*Cough*Roy*cough*
Looks like heavy armor to me. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html) But it is pretty hard to tell in a stick figure comic.

[Reshbj]

the guild of blood sweat and tears.

or the Blood, evil, Sweat, Tears Guiild. (a.k.a "the BeST Guild"))

The Bodily Fluid Guild?

[Evil DM Mark3]

It's even possible he's a Fighter/Rogue/Blackguard, given his sons' tendencies toward gish-like builds and his use of armor (medium?)... or a Lawful Bard variant (stupid restriction anyway: "I follow THE LAW, and therefore cannot sing or tell stories of heroes past to encourage my allies.")...

Or he could be a non-core class, or possibly... a Paladin of Tyranny.

Not. What. Lawful. Means.:smallmad:

Anyway, I think the most likely class for Tarquin is Fighter/Blackguard or something of that ilk (Paladin of Tyranny is a definite possibility.) He is clearly a martial combatant, look at the images we saw of him back when Elan and Nale first met, and to be fair his current little game does not require any physical skill or might, it's pure politics.

[hamishspence]

Not. What. Lawful. Means.:smallmad:


the bard restriction does sometimes seem silly though.

Complete Adventurer introduced a feat (designed to be used with bard/paladins) that allows them to keep advancing in Bard even after becoming lawful, and to keep taking paladin levels even after taking Bard levels.

Plus, for determining the power of some abilities, Bard and Paladin levels stack.

[ThePhantasm]

I just thought of something. The strip just introduced a whole swath of new characters here with this new order. Now, chances are they aren't all evil like Tarquin. At least one of them is probably unhappy with how this evil plan has shaped up, and wants out - but knows that would mean death because it would be letting the secret out. So this person could join the Order as a new member after Belkar's death. Replacement!

[silas the monk]

I think the muffled guy must be an assassin as that would explain why Tarquin's wives tend to die of mysterious circumstances.

[Souju]

better question!
Elan, MitD, Serini, Thog
All the "teams" we've been introduced to so far have a cloudcuckoolander on the team.
Who's this team's resident lovable nutjob?
Malack and Tarquin don't quite fit the criteria.

[Drolyt]

Not. What. Lawful. Means.:smallmad:
Nobody really knows what lawful means. We've had uncounted threads on the topic.

[Poppy Appletree]

Looks like heavy armor to me. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html) But it is pretty hard to tell in a stick figure comic.

Go look in the Class and Level Geekery Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131219) - their assessment is that Roy wears medium, not heavy, armour.

[Irbis]

*Cough*Roy*cough*

*Cough*Redcloak*cough*

And I'm amazed that almost everyone pegged Scribbles as epic, even at the time when we saw nothing that impressive from them, but now, a man who might very well be epic level given his accomplishments tends to be smeared with 5th level.

Huh, I'll never understand people :P

[hamishspence]

Nobody really knows what lawful means. We've had uncounted threads on the topic.


WOTC defines Lawful quite well here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050325a

Its description of Chaotic though, in the same article, has come in for some criticism.

[Istari]

*Cough*Redcloak*cough*


Redcloak said in SoD the he wears armor, so its reasonable to assume its heavy

[Drolyt]

And I'm amazed that almost everyone pegged Scribbles as epic, even at the time when we saw nothing that impressive from them, but now, a man who might very well be epic level given his accomplishments tends to be smeared with 5th level.

Huh, I'll never understand people :P
I'm confused. I suppose I skipped over part of the thread, but I assumed Tarquin's party to be at least higher level than the Order of the Stick, perhaps epic but we don't know. As for the Scribbles, they've got a nice claim to epic. See Soon, Lirian, and Dorukan. On the other hand, it is implied that Tarquin knows Girard. Girard is supposed to be chaotic good so far as i can tell, so it is possible that Tarquin has already defeated Girard in his quest for dominance of the western continent. Also, years ago (when he was lower level) Tarquin conquered more nations than any other even without his intelligence (well, we can assume he was a brilliant strategist but whatever). We have a decent argument for epic level going for him.

WOTC defines Lawful quite well here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050325a

Its description of Chaotic though, in the same article, has come in for some criticism.
That seems more sane than most, but I wouldn't call it definitive.

[hamishspence]

That seems more sane than most, but I wouldn't call it definitive.

It makes good generalizations though- and avoids the trap of Lawful becoming "lawful stupid".

[tahu88810]

An interesting thought:

Elan - Nale - Girard - Tarquin
Roy - Thog - Soon Kim - Sword-&-Board Guy
Haley - Sabine - Serini - Catgirl
Vaarsuvius - Zz'dtri/Pompey - Dorukan - Muffled Guy
Belkar - Yikyik/Yokyok - Kroagar - Yellow Robe
Durkon - Hilgya/Leeky - Lirian - Malack
Yellow robe is a wilder, to fit with the chaotic and violent theme of belkar's grouping.

[Gift Jeraff]

And I'm amazed that almost everyone pegged Scribbles as epic
Do you mean the people of the forum? Because Dorukan has been flat-out called epic-level. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html)

[Irbis]

I assumed Tarquin's party to be at least higher level than the Order of the Stick, perhaps epic but we don't know.

That is pretty much my assumption too, but the main thread had at least dozen people gleefully describing scenarios how 5th level Tarquin will be chopped to pieces by unarmed Roy. Or Haley. In melee.


As for the Scribbles, they've got a nice claim to epic.

See below.


It is possible that Tarquin has already defeated Girard in his quest for dominance of the western continent. Also, years ago (when he was lower level) Tarquin conquered more nations than any other even without his intelligence (well, we can assume he was a brilliant strategist but whatever). We have a decent argument for epic level going for him.

Yup. Which it why I don't understand people :P


Do you mean the people of the forum? Because Dorukan has been flat-out called epic-level. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html)

*Cough*


And I'm amazed that almost everyone pegged Scribbles as epic, even at the time when we saw nothing that impressive from them :P

I have bolded revelant part. Before. Until Xykon casted Cloister, there was about 0% of evidence they might be epic, crayon story placed their levels anywhere from 8th level to low-epic, yet people insisted they were Elminsters in disguise.

[Drolyt]

I have bolded revelant part. Before. Until Xykon casted Cloister, there was about 0% of evidence they might be epic, crayon story placed their levels anywhere from 8th level to low-epic, yet people insisted they were Elminsters in disguise.
I kind of assumed they were epic when the crayon story hit just because they had such an important job, but I knew that wasn't direct evidence. And really no one in OotS is Elminster. No one dammit! (Elminster is 35th level in 3.5 and a Chosen of Mystra).

[Irbis]

And really no one in OotS is Elminster. No one dammit! (Elminster is 35th level in 3.5 and a Chosen of Mystra).

Really. Haven't you seen these claims for 55th level for Soon, and 120th level for Darth V, made with completely straight face? :smallamused:

[Drolyt]

Really. Haven't you seen these claims for 55th level for Soon, and 120th level for Darth V, made with completely straight face? :smallamused:
... No, no I haven't. I really don't think Soon is a minor god, or that Darth V could take out an entire pantheon. Whoever came up with those numbers doesn't understand how power scales in D&D.

[Gift Jeraff]

I have bolded revelant part. Before. Until Xykon casted Cloister, there was about 0% of evidence they might be epic, crayon story placed their levels anywhere from 8th level to low-epic, yet people insisted they were Elminsters in disguise.
Well, what about the fact that 3 of them stood up against an epic-level lich, with one of them pretty much winning had it not been for Miko? (Admittedly, Lirian pretty much sucked during Xykon's rematch but she made some very stupid choices.)

Also, Dorukan said "Only the most epic can defend gates." way back in #277 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html). Granted, that's not concrete evidence for them being epic-level, but the implication was there.

EDIT: And I believe Redcloak says that the ritual requires epic-level casters in SoD.

EDIT2: As for Tarquin's level, somewhere from Redcloak-ish to early epic would be my guess, with his allies being somewhat lower.

[Procyonpi]

Not necessarily. They could have switched up the Tarquin/Malack and Armor/Scarf combos at one point, and indeed could juggle every few years, whenever they arrange for their Empires to get toppled.

Indeed, the way that I read it is that each party member wears the colors of each new "empire" every time one is toppled.

The one thing that doesn't add up for me is how they could work out the timing to have all the empires be toppled at the same time so they could switch up without people getting suspicious.

[blackjack217]

Perhaps I should clarify... what I meant was, I don't think we've ever seen someone wear lighter armor than the heaviest they're proficient with. So the reason Muffle Guy is wearing robes is because he's not proficient with armor.
by your logic Roy is wearing full plate.

[Drolyt]

The one thing that doesn't add up for me is how they could work out the timing to have all the empires be toppled at the same time so they could switch up without people getting suspicious.
What? Why the hell would all the empires have to be toppled at the same time?

[Ganurath]

My theory on the race/class combinations:

Sword and Board: Human Barbarian. Maybe a Warblade, if Rich is willing to go that far from Core.

Malack: Reptilian Cleric, as already established.

Catgirl: Catfolk Monk or Rogue, most likely the latter given the culture of her current location.

Scarf Guy: He can use arcane wands, and his partner is a pure combat type. While a Sorceror is possible, the one with the better stats for the job is a Warlock. Human, since he's aged at the same rate as Tarquin and S/B.

Ioun Stones: She's already showing a few grays in the flashback, and has hardly gained any in recent events. That suggests elven longevity, and her clearly defined gender means that lineage would be mixed with human.

Tarquin: He's a charismatic warrior with a greater good mindset, and has ranks in Bluff to boot. My money says he's a fallen paladin turned blackguard, likely through Malack summoning Sabine.

[Sylthia]

Do you suppose that Miron Shewdanker, the former chancellor of Tyrinaria is one of Tarquin's party members?

[Kish]

Perhaps I should clarify... what I meant was, I don't think we've ever seen someone wear lighter armor than the heaviest they're proficient with.

You mean, the way Miko wore heavy armor, as demonstrated by her being able to use Evasion in the armor she was wearing?

Even if what you were saying was true, "We've never seen, therefore we never will see" is not logic.

[Gift Jeraff]

Do you suppose that Miron Shewdanker, the former chancellor of Tyrinaria is one of Tarquin's party members?
Possibly, but given that Chancellor Kilkil wasn't around when Tarquin posted Nale's bounty, my guess is that the chancellors come and go. Tarquin more than anyone should know that chancellors are the ones people expect to be secretly pulling the strings or plotting usurpation. :smallbiggrin:

[Damaris]

What? Why the hell would all the empires have to be toppled at the same time?
They mean so that they can shuffle around the "advisor" groups; it might not work if they change while the monarch stays the same.

[Drolyt]

They mean so that they can shuffle around the "advisor" groups; it might not work if they change while the monarch stays the same.
I'm still not getting it. :smallconfused:

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

While we're at it, what should we call Tarquin's party. We've got the Order of the Stick, the Order of the Scribble, the Linear Guild, ... I like using Guild again for another evil party.

The Order of the Sand, since they're trying to control a continent that's largely desert.

[Mordaenor]

My two cents. I'm going to hypothesize that one of Tarquin's party, and I'm going to suggest Catwoman or the Shadow, is a Monk. And my reason for that, is that its the only Core Class I can think of that hasn't been represented by a main character yet. (Although I'm pushing the definition of "Main Character" with Nale's Gnomish Druid buddy) I realize that's not the strongest logic, but there you are.

[Bedinsis]

Do you suppose that Miron Shewdanker, the former chancellor of Tyrinaria is one of Tarquin's party members?

Yes, apparently (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0759.html)

[Shale]

I'm still not getting it. :smallconfused:

Warring kingdoms don't randomly swap high-ranking advisors with each other. The only way to switch around the groups without rocking the boat would be to have it happen at the same time as they bring in a new monarch, who doesn't know who the old guard was - otherwise you get Lord Tyrinar or whoever wondering who this lizardfolk is,, why he looks so familiar from that diplomatic visit to Cruelvania, and hey, where the hell's Miron?

[homersolo]

I think the real question might be: What level is Tarquin's party? If they've been warriors/whatever for 20 years they should have quite a few levels on OftS.

[Sylthia]

Hmm, I guessed something right. I wonder when Miron will enter the scene.

[Drolyt]

Warring kingdoms don't randomly swap high-ranking advisors with each other. The only way to switch around the groups without rocking the boat would be to have it happen at the same time as they bring in a new monarch, who doesn't know who the old guard was - otherwise you get Lord Tyrinar or whoever wondering who this lizardfolk is,, why he looks so familiar from that diplomatic visit to Cruelvania, and hey, where the hell's Miron?
Well, yes, but they topple a kingdom at least once every 10 months or so. Not all of them have to be in sync, they just need to do that occasionally.

[Damaris]

The point is, how are they supposed to keep a monrach who -didn't- get toppled in sync with the other(s) from wondering who the hell that new advisor is supposed to be if they switch around the groups -during- his "reign"?

[Drolyt]

The point is, how are they supposed to keep a monrach who -didn't- get toppled in sync with the other(s) from wondering who the hell that new advisor is supposed to be if they switch around the groups -during- his "reign"?
Have you seen the monarchs they are manipulating? Even Elan and Nale are smarter than that, like they would care if say Tarquin switched Malack with Miron or something like that. This is facilitated by the having one of the advisers be senior to another.

[Ganurath]

My two cents. I'm going to hypothesize that one of Tarquin's party, and I'm going to suggest Catwoman or the Shadow, is a Monk. And my reason for that, is that its the only Core Class I can think of that hasn't been represented by a main character yet. (Although I'm pushing the definition of "Main Character" with Nale's Gnomish Druid buddy) I realize that's not the strongest logic, but there you are.:miko: What am I, chopped liver?

[suszterpatt]

:miko: What am I, chopped liver?That's a Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0066.html) quote, mate. ;)

[TheBlackShadow]

Crazy epileptic tree theory with absolutely no real grounds or evidence, substantial or otherwise: could Tarquin's team be to the Order of the Scribble as the Linear Guild are Team Evil are to the Order of the Stick, evil adversaries from long ago?

[Sylthia]

Possibly, but it would seem unlikely due to the approximate era the parties were active.

[mikau013]

Now that we see them, what classes?

Tarquin: some sort of fighter, but I cannot imagine him being a straight fighter like Roy.
Malack: already known: Cleric
Sword-&-Board Guy (currently in EoT): Fighter-type
Cat Girl (currently in EoS): Rogue-type (dang, almost typed Rouge-type)
Muffled Guy (currently in EoT): we've seen that sort of style before, what does it represent?
Yellow Robe (currently in EoS): floaty Ioun stones, I'm thinking Psion.

Muffled guy is probably a gun wielding shadow!
like Roy in this strip :
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0474.html

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

Warring kingdoms don't randomly swap high-ranking advisors with each other. The only way to switch around the groups without rocking the boat would be to have it happen at the same time as they bring in a new monarch, who doesn't know who the old guard was - otherwise you get Lord Tyrinar or whoever wondering who this lizardfolk is,, why he looks so familiar from that diplomatic visit to Cruelvania, and hey, where the hell's Miron?

According to the most recent strip, "We switch partners every once in a while, just to keep things fresh." Tarquin doesn't specify whether that's during a general power change or not. Your point is valid, though, that the logistics involved in switching mid-regime would be complicated, if not outright impossible.

[Yendor]

Crazy epileptic tree theory with absolutely no real grounds or evidence, substantial or otherwise: could Tarquin's team be to the Order of the Scribble as the Linear Guild are Team Evil are to the Order of the Stick, evil adversaries from long ago?

Given that Girard and his friends and Soon were active nearly 70 years ago, I'd say the odds are approximately zero.

[Doug Lampert]

Really. Haven't you seen these claims for 55th level for Soon, and 120th level for Darth V, made with completely straight face? :smallamused:


... No, no I haven't. I really don't think Soon is a minor god, or that Darth V could take out an entire pantheon. Whoever came up with those numbers doesn't understand how power scales in D&D.

The argument for Soon I missed. I don't buy the argument for Darth V, but it goes roughly as follows, (1) he's the combination of V (roughly level 14) and three powerful epic casters, we have a bunch of indications of the power of the epic casters, Heareta or whoever was the most powerful and we saw two of them losing levels to a maximized energy drain and can estimate a level from this.

IIRC I thought the estimates I saw were a bit high, but you can get to where they are all in the thirties if you make the right assumptions.

You estimate the four levels and add, works fine if you assume casters are linear in power and multiclass well (cough). But I don't think anyone claimed that, I think what was claimed was that Darth V might well counted as having all those levels for purposes of XP gain and thus have earned XP as a ECL 120 or so character during that time, and I think THAT was the thing actually claimed, that V would get no XP because absolutely NOTHING he could begin to fight as Darth V was worth XP to an ECL 120 character.

[Drolyt]

that V would get no XP because absolutely NOTHING he could begin to fight as Darth V was worth XP to an ECL 120 character.
Including the Snarl. That said, I might be remembering non-facts here, but wasn't part of the deal that he wouldn't get any xp regardless of what level the encounter was?

[Nilan8888]

I just thought of something. The strip just introduced a whole swath of new characters here with this new order. Now, chances are they aren't all evil like Tarquin. At least one of them is probably unhappy with how this evil plan has shaped up, and wants out - but knows that would mean death because it would be letting the secret out.

I'd prefer that too since for them all to be evil is pretty plain-jane, as I've said before. However the present evidence doesn't point to a hopeful picture: Tarquin is definitely, absolutely evil. This new Miron guy with the scarf is, at best, only slightly less evil.

The proof on Malack being evil is not as good, but even for Malack, the picture isn't exactly rosy. He MIGHT be neutral. Might.

The others it's hard to say definitively, but it doesn't seem likely they're good either.

[Allan Surgite]

Including the Snarl. That said, I might be remembering non-facts here, but wasn't part of the deal that he wouldn't get any xp regardless of what level the encounter was?
Not quite; I think it was stated in-comic that V's effective level would be so high that she'd gain very little experience, as noted by those estimating an effectual level of >100.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

I'd prefer that too since for them all to be evil is pretty plain-jane, as I've said before. However the present evidence doesn't point to a hopeful picture: Tarquin is definitely, absolutely evil. This new Miron guy with the scarf is, at best, only slightly less evil.

The proof on Malack being evil is not as good, but even for Malack, the picture isn't exactly rosy. He MIGHT be neutral. Might.

The others it's hard to say definitively, but it doesn't seem likely they're good either.

They all seem to be going along with the plan, so it doesn't seem like they can too far off Tarquin morally. Of course, one of them could be planning to betray the party or some such if he or she was actually good, but why wait this long? It seems they've all been helping the plan along for some time now.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Not quite; I think it was stated in-comic that V's effective level would be so high that she'd gain very little experience, as noted by those estimating an effectual level of >100.

That's kind of riddled with problems right there. V would only need to be eight levels higher than Xykon to not gain xp, so we can really assume the minimum level here, 14 + ~21*3 = ~77. Still ridiculously high, but I don't understand this level 100 thing. I figured the spellcasters were meant to be roughly on par if a little bit more powerful than Xykon.

[Nilan8888]

They all seem to be going along with the plan, so it doesn't seem like they can too far off Tarquin morally. Of course, one of them could be planning to betray the party or some such if he or she was actually good, but why wait this long? It seems they've all been helping the plan along for some time now.

It might depend on their motivations.

Tarquin's motivations are clear.

Miron's motivations don't seem like they could possibly be much better. None of them seem to be hurting for money: what then is the noble purpose of holding Ian for ransom (and it is HIS name, not Tarquin's, on that letter)? And he is right there helping to give one of Tarquin's wives "cold feet".

Malack we can't prove quite as much. He might have other reasons in mind for going along with this plan. That he might have been willing to feed Elan to the dragon, though, is not a good sign. But I don't think the evidence thus far is as damning as it is for both Tarquin and Miron if we wanted to make the case.

The other 3, presently, are technically unknown. If we're looking for smoking guns, I think we have them for only 2 out of the 6 (3 out of 7 if you count baby Nale).

[snikrept]

Crazy epileptic tree theory with absolutely no real grounds or evidence, substantial or otherwise: could Tarquin's team be to the Order of the Scribble as the Linear Guild are Team Evil are to the Order of the Stick, evil adversaries from long ago?
This would actually work nicely to explain why Tarquin is inexplicably familiar with Girard.

[Doomboy911]

It's probably obvious but what race is the cat chick?

[hamishspence]

IMO, currently, the theory that most people seem to think likeliest, is that she is a Catfolk, from Miniatures Handbook/Races of the Wild.

Though there are other theories.

[Gift Jeraff]

Crazy epileptic tree theory with absolutely no real grounds or evidence, substantial or otherwise: could Tarquin's team be to the Order of the Scribble as the Linear Guild are Team Evil are to the Order of the Stick, evil adversaries from long ago?
As others have said, the ages are too off. If Belkar's approximation is right (20 years older than Elan) then Tarquin is around 42 years old (I'm personally thinking he's around 47-52ish, he just looks so good that he seems 5-10 years younger), and the Order of the Scribble formed around 67 years ago.

BUT Serini didn't retire from adventuring. So maybe she had an adventuring party that rivaled Tarquin's.

[Drolyt]

That's kind of riddled with problems right there. V would only need to be eight levels higher than Xykon to not gain xp, so we can really assume the minimum level here, 14 + ~21*3 = ~77. Still ridiculously high, but I don't understand this level 100 thing. I figured the spellcasters were meant to be roughly on par if a little bit more powerful than Xykon.
I don't think you can find Darth V's effective level by adding his level to the Soul Splices. That's just not how level works in D&D. Consider the scenario where the three Soul Splices averaged 30th level. If they formed a party with V their CR would only be 34. In that scenario you have 4 characters that can take independent actions. Darth V should actually be weaker than that. That said, I think only the necromancer chick, the one who V lost after fighting the dragon and who the fiends said was the strongest, was on par with (or maybe stronger than) Xykon. The other two were epic but not as strong as Xykon.

[hamishspence]

Especially considering it was only spells (and maybe Spellcraft in order to cast the epic spells?) V got from it.

And that V was still limited by the action economy.

As Xykon said "how you can blow a Concentration check that easy is beyond me"- indicating V didn't get a high Concentration skill from the splice.

[Procyonpi]

What? Why the hell would all the empires have to be toppled at the same time?

Well presumably, someone would notice if two high level advisers just "switched places" without regime change. But maybe I'm overanalysing.


My two cents. I'm going to hypothesize that one of Tarquin's party, and I'm going to suggest Catwoman or the Shadow, is a Monk. And my reason for that, is that its the only Core Class I can think of that hasn't been represented by a main character yet.

Well
In OoPC, Rich makes all sorts of fun of the Monk class, although it's not clear if that's actually his opinion or just Belkar being Belkar.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

Well presumably, someone would notice if two high level advisers just "switched places" without regime change. But maybe I'm overanalysing.



Well
In OoPC, Rich makes all sorts of fun of the Monk class, although it's not clear if that's actually his opinion or just Belkar being Belkar.

It seems, though I haven't read all the relevant posts, that people consider monks underpowered in general. I tend not to play in very optimized games, so they've always worked in my groups, but people on this site, at least, seem not to like them.

[Kish]

I get very twitchy whenever anyone suggests that a character saying something is equivalent to Rich saying it. Belkar rather moreso than the rest of the Order.

[Procyonpi]

I get very twitchy whenever anyone suggests that a character saying something is equivalent to Rich saying it. Belkar rather moreso than the rest of the Order.

Very true. You got a point there.

Still, I doubt Rich is the type who would decide to make a character a certain class "because it's the only core class he hasn't used yet."

In fact, considering some of Rich's comments about not keeping track of the main character's statistics, I feel it's more likely that he hasn't decided which classes all of Tarquin's party members are yet.

[Drolyt]

It seems, though I haven't read all the relevant posts, that people consider monks underpowered in general. I tend not to play in very optimized games, so they've always worked in my groups, but people on this site, at least, seem not to like them.
Monk's are rather underpowered, yes, but that's not the main reason most people don't like them. Most people don't like them because they don't do much. They are really fast and punch people hard. Sure, they have a boatload of other abilities, but most of those are both passive and useless. Compare to unarmed swordsage, which many feel is what the monk should have been. Instead of just hitting hard and having a bunch of passive abilities unarmed swordsages have numerous active abilities that give more fun and variety as well as being more useful and balanced (that is, not underpowered).

[Kish]

Instead of just hitting hard and having a bunch of passive abilities unarmed swordsages have numerous active abilities that give more fun and variety as well as being more useful and balanced (that is, not underpowered).
Plus the amazing power of Oxymoronic Name!

[Silverlocke980]

We should call Tarquin's Guild the Western Guild, or- to juxtapose it with the Linear Guild- the Perpendicular Guild; it seems to work at cross-purposes, but secretly all of it connects.

[Acero]

According to the most recent strip, "We switch partners every once in a while, just to keep things fresh." Tarquin doesn't specify whether that's during a general power change or not. Your point is valid, though, that the logistics involved in switching mid-regime would be complicated, if not outright impossible.

Well, I could see one advisor having a change of heart and defecting to another nation...

[Drolyt]

Well, I could see one advisor having a change of heart and defecting to another nation...
If done correctly, this could have the effect of deflecting people who might figure out what they are up to. Done incorrectly, it could do the opposite. Personally, I bet the adviser swaps are rare. Tarquin made it sound like him and Malack were a package deal, suggesting they had been together through many regime changes.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

Monk's are rather underpowered, yes, but that's not the main reason most people don't like them. Most people don't like them because they don't do much. They are really fast and punch people hard. Sure, they have a boatload of other abilities, but most of those are both passive and useless. Compare to unarmed swordsage, which many feel is what the monk should have been. Instead of just hitting hard and having a bunch of passive abilities unarmed swordsages have numerous active abilities that give more fun and variety as well as being more useful and balanced (that is, not underpowered).

I'm really not familiar with the Swordsage, or it's slipping my mind at the moment. Which book are they in? I fully admit that I don't have as deep a knowledge of the game as many people do.

[hamishspence]

Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords

It's the go-to source for giving melee characters a lot more options- and has 3 classes (Warblade, Crusader, Swordsage) that make full use of the rules.

[Drolyt]

I'm really not familiar with the Swordsage, or it's slipping my mind at the moment. Which book are they in? I fully admit that I don't have as deep a knowledge of the game as many people do.
As above, it's from Tome of Battle. If you aren't familiar with it, it has three classes (warblade, crusader, swordsage) that have access to maneuvers, which are like spells for melee classes, although only a handful of them are supernatural in nature; most simply make the characters more effective at what they already do or give them additional options in combat. They also don't have a daily limit. I'm not 100% fond of the execution, but it works pretty well. The warblade is essentially a melee fighter, the crusader is a sort of alignment free paladin, and the swordsage is harder to class, but is somewhat rogue-ish and with the unarmed variant is effectively a monk. The crusader in particular is considered a great tank, but the classes in general are pretty good. One potential "problem" is that the ToB classes don't have very many traps. By traps I mean that in the core rules there are any options that are considered suboptimal but don't look suboptimal to someone who isn't a min/maxer (eg blaster wizard, healbot cleric, twf fighter, anyone taking toughness or one of the +2 to 2 skills feats). I consider this bad game design, and it was fixed for ToB, where picking Maneuvers at random will still leave you playable, but this makes it so in an unoptimized group the ToB classes will sometimes seem overpowered, when what is actually happening is you are choosing suboptimal options for the other classes and optimal ones for the ToB classes.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

Thanks for the information.

I would suggest that some of the suboptimal feats, builds, etc. can be useful or effective in less-optimized games. They're not designed for the min/maxer. And, rereading it, I see that you said that's a potential problem, that Tome of Battle lacks those options, so I think we're in agreement. If a fully-optimized character without any traps were dropped into the game I normally play in, it would probably dominate to the point where it wouldn't be fun for anyone involved.

[Jaros]

As far as the naming's concerned, I'm liking Imperial Guild too

[Menarker]

Malack we can't prove quite as much. He might have other reasons in mind for going along with this plan. That he might have been willing to feed Elan to the dragon, though, is not a good sign. But I don't think the evidence thus far is as damning as it is for both Tarquin and Miron if we wanted to make the case.


Actually, Malack's prior intent to feeding Elan to the dragon was during the brief time when he believed that Elan was actually Nale. Since Nale had killed his children, he has more or less legitimate grievances against him. That due to Elan's ill-timed statements which angered the dragon-ruler, Malack was probably trying to find a suitable way to ease the situation on his side with minimal fuss.

But yes, I'd imagine the individual party members probably have varying motivation whether it is power and domination, the easy hedonistic lifestyle or perhaps kinship to the natives or whatnot like perhaps Malack might be as the Empire of Blood is very much populated and in favor of lizardfolks.

[mp122984]

The Fellowship of the [Iron] Fist!

(I was trying to think of L______ Guild to go along with the Order of the S______, but couldn't come up with anything. :smallfrown:)

The Liquidity Guild?

I'm partial to The Fluid Order, myself.

[Demonicbunny]

If done correctly, this could have the effect of deflecting people who might figure out what they are up to. Done incorrectly, it could do the opposite. Personally, I bet the adviser swaps are rare. Tarquin made it sound like him and Malack were a package deal, suggesting they had been together through many regime changes.

Trusting Tarquins word at face value is...not recommended :smallsmile:

Anyway. I don't see what the problems is with them switching partners every now and then (even if a kingdom is still standing).
They're posing as mercenaries. Switching sides, allegiances and partners every now and then is pretty much the mercenary modus operandi. Compare the situation for the desert kingdoms with for example renaissance Italy (and italy was more stable than the Desert kingdoms).
All they have to do is fake a little differing opinions and someone else offering them a raise.
After a switchout an individual might even take a few months doing solo jobs on the side to heighten the scams credibility.

That said, we don't have any evidence of them doing more than a single switch in these 7 years (with Muffleguy switching from Tarquin to S/B guy).

[Studoku]

So... Who wants to bet that if we see the Catfolk again, it'll be to see her get killed by physics?



Fixed that for ya. :smallbiggrin:
I'm expecting something leading to the punchline-

"Every time you explain something in a fantasy setting with God, physics kills a catgirl".

[Drolyt]

Trusting Tarquins word at face value is...not recommended :smallsmile:
He doesn't appear to be lying to Elan about anything, why would we assume he isn't trustworthy? He had no reason to lie to Elan about that.

[Demonicbunny]

He doesn't appear to be lying to Elan about anything, why would we assume he isn't trustworthy? He had no reason to lie to Elan about that.

Ah. But we KNOW that he was co-operating with Muffle guy at one point (in Tyrinaria), yet in 725 he's implying at least that Tarquin&Malack have been the team for the last 15 years.
He might not have been lying, but he certainly wasn't telling the whole truth either.
Thus, don't take anything that Tarquin says at face value. He might not break the truth (although we have no firm evidence of that either), but he can sure take it for a merry spin.