View Full Version : Beguiler tweak, Ur ideas before running it by my DM?

2010-11-17, 12:43 PM
My attempt to make the class a bit better (or at least in my case it does).

Access to all Sorcerer/Wizard spells in the following schools; Necro, Illus, Ench

- Advanced learner

Everything else is the same.

2010-11-17, 12:48 PM
Beguiler is already pretty much the top of the tier 3 classes, why do you feel the need to make this tweak? Necromancy doesn't seem to fit into what the beguiler's schtick is at all (and infringes on DN's territory).

2010-11-17, 01:12 PM
Beguiler is already pretty much the top of the tier 3 classes, why do you feel the need to make this tweak? Necromancy doesn't seem to fit into what the beguiler's schtick is at all (and infringes on DN's territory).

Maybe turn it into the Warmage version where you learn it as a spell level higher than normal?

2010-11-17, 01:15 PM
Ok, seriously, if you don't like the restrictions of a beguiler, just play an arcane rogue build. The 1 or 2 lost caster levels isn't that bad, and you can have access to all the schools you want. And when you consider that beguiler is already a half spell level behind the wizard, you're really not missing much by switching to a hybrid build.

2010-11-17, 01:24 PM
If you want a greater varity of spells but still have a focus on decieving/controling people then there are better ways to do that then altering the beguiler. The most obvious is "play a wizard," but a sorcerer can do somewhat the same thing without being tier 1 and totally broken(though it is still tier 2. You may also consider being a cleric and picking up the Tyranny domain or even dipping into Dracolyte for the very awesome Domination prestige domain.

Also, while it's far from 100% finished I will insert my shamless plug here:


It's my first attempt at a PrC. Enter with a sorcerer and you can be good at manipulating people and have (Somewhat) more of a variety then a beguiler. The class is more focused on the leadership feat then actual manipulation goes, but it allows you to bypass mind-effecting immunity(VERY important at higher levels) and gives you a nice CL boost for mind effecting enchantment spells. The only issue with it is that it's unfinished/not yet fully worked out and therefore may be too powerful in some respects.

2010-11-17, 01:42 PM
The Beguiler is one of the best written, most useful class for 3.5 and really needs nothing more.

As has been stated it is king of the mountian of Tier 3s and comes really close to Tier 2 with a small addition of cheese.

2010-11-17, 01:44 PM
To quote Yahtzee: "More is not always better. This is like ordering the Lobster Thermidor, and sellotaping a Snickers Bar to it."

2010-11-17, 01:53 PM
Which is why if you want more spell variety you should play another class. The Beguiler is great at what it dose but is not meant to be good at everything. If you want a beguiler who can also use necromancy spells and such you really should be playing an illusion or enchantment specialized wizard as appose to a beguiler. The class has a well built spell list(Unlike it's undead loving cousin the Dread Necromancer who's spell list was obviously never playtested or even looked over by an editor(Planar Binding and no magic circle? Death Ward at two different levels? Unhallow but no Desecrate? Come on Wizards....I mean...you have editors, right?)) and really is fine as is. The issue is not with the class but rather the fact you want the class to do more then what it was built to do and that simply means you should switch classes instead of altering something that's already good.

Duke of URL
2010-11-17, 01:58 PM
There are plenty of feats to add spells to your spells known list. Presuming you're really just trying to add a little flexibility so that you're not stuck against creatures immune to mind-affecting, you could probably get close to the same net effect with judicious use of Arcane Disciple or perhaps Necrotic Cyst.

2010-11-17, 02:03 PM
Arcane Disciple I would not bother with. To use any spells beyond the lower level ones your going to need a lot of wisdom which both A) makes you MAD and B) requires you to put points into an otherwise traditional dumb stat for your class. Necrotic Cyst is nice, but is even better when pared with corrupt arcana or whatever that feat was that gives you all the corrupt spells. While I don't remember off hand I believe there where a few good Necromancy spells which where also corrupt spells meaning you would have nice synergy between the two feats and your necrotic cysts will actually be useful for spells other then, well, necrotic cyst spells. I may however, be wrong since I don't remember how many spells from the corrupt list where actually necromancy spells or if the corrupt necromancy spells where actually any good.

2010-11-17, 02:28 PM
Beguiler Capstone + all necromancy spells = scary.