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WinceRind
2010-11-17, 02:14 PM
Hey there.

I might soon be making my first wizard, and I've come across a problem. Namely, the spellbook.

The "default" spellbook from DMG has 100 pages and spells take up 1 page per spell level, and 1 page each if they're 0 level.
Wizards get ungodly amounts of cantrips, many of which are useful.
I'm estimating that if I get the default spell book, I might be running out of space before I even reach level 4 spells.

Are there any bigger spellbooks by RAW? Or should I stick with this one and try to stick only to the most used spells?

Also, are there any +0 LA humanoid player races that have sorcerer as their favored class? (Preferably something more human then Kobolds, although in the worst case scenario I can just pick human.)

Thanks!

Volos
2010-11-17, 02:20 PM
As far as my understanding went, you could just add more pages to your spellbook as you leveled. And you do not have to have every cantrip in your spellbook, just the ones you want. Not to mention if you are a wizard, you should be specializing and that means you will be missing the cantrips from your prohibited schools of magic.

WinceRind
2010-11-17, 02:28 PM
As far as my understanding went, you could just add more pages to your spellbook as you leveled. And you do not have to have every cantrip in your spellbook, just the ones you want. Not to mention if you are a wizard, you should be specializing and that means you will be missing the cantrips from your prohibited schools of magic.

Actually I was going for the Elf Wizard Generalist. It's from Races of the Wild. You get and can prepare an extra spell each spell level along with the usual 1st level wizard stuff as long as you don't specialize.

And I don't intend to, either. Character reasons.

My DM doesn't really know what to do with the spell book either... On one hand, he wants to avoid homebrew (it's a long story...), on the other hand, I really don't want to end up carrying 3 spellbooks at higher levels because I do intend to learn quite a few spells.

sonofzeal
2010-11-17, 02:30 PM
Boccob's Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) was made for this.

Feliks878
2010-11-17, 02:33 PM
Boccob's Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) was made for this.

+1 to this, though it can be hard to get before higher levels.

WinceRind
2010-11-17, 02:38 PM
Boccob's Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) was made for this.

Thanks! That answers it...

Guess I'll have to stick around with the 100 page book for a few spell levels, but at least I won't have to lug around a whole sack later.

Synapse
2010-11-17, 02:45 PM
If it won't get in the way of your skill selection and class buildup, 2 levels in geometer will help. geometer is a 5 levels 5/5 casting class for prepared casters. At level two all your spells fit in one page each.

Radar
2010-11-17, 03:00 PM
Secret Page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretpage.htm) spell can effectively double your spellbook's capacity (it's one of explicitely stated uses), but you will have to keep it safe from dispelling.

Marnath
2010-11-17, 03:15 PM
Complete Arcane has rules for custom spellbooks. It will run you 10 gold pieces to add 100 pages of normal parchment paper to your book(assuming you can add pages to a book that's already been bound.) It also adds 2 pounds to the weight and an extra hit point per 100 pages, if you track such things.

So basically, just deduct 25 gold for your book at CharGen instead of 15, and you have 200 pages. That should more than do it until you get that Boccob's Blessed Book. If not that, you can just blow extra money on 300 or 400 pages and never need to upgrade at all. Up to you.

dextercorvia
2010-11-17, 03:21 PM
Complete Arcane has rules for custom spellbooks. It will run you 10 gold pieces to add 100 pages of normal parchment paper to your book(assuming you can add pages to a book that's already been bound.) It also adds 2 pounds to the weight and an extra hit point per 100 pages, if you track such things.

So basically, just deduct 25 gold for your book at CharGen instead of 15, and you have 200 pages. That should more than do it until you get that Boccob's Blessed Book. If not that, you can just blow extra money on 300 or 400 pages and never need to upgrade at all. Up to you.

You don't have to pay for your initial spellbook. It is a class feature. You probably could pay the extra 10gp to upgrade it though.

gorfnab
2010-11-17, 03:32 PM
How about not needing a spellbook? I posted this a while ago over on BG.


Easy Bake No "Worries" Wizard

Elf, preferably Gray

Elf Wizard Racial Sub - Races of the Wild
Eidetic Spellcaster ACF - Dragon Magazine #357
Spontaneous Divination ACF - Complete Champion
Collegiate Wizard feat - Complete Arcane

1st Level - 7+ Int mod 1st level spells known, all cantrips, spontaneous divinations, 1 extra spell per day of highest level
No Familiar, No Scribe Scroll, No Spellbook

Note: Every level after 1st that advances wizard spellcasting gets you 5 spells known for free instead of the usual 2.
Edit: If you're playing in Eberron, the feat Aerenal Arcanist (Player's Guide to Eberron) will net you an additional spell known per level netting you 8+Int spells at 1st level and 6 additional spells known every level after that.

If flaws are available
Precocious Apprentice: Melf's Acid Arrow, Ice Knife, or Combust - Complete Arcane
Acidic Splatter, Winter's Blast, or Fiery Burst - Complete Mage
Sacred Vow + Vow of Poverty - Book of Exalted Deeds - depending on the campaign, this may work

Marnath
2010-11-17, 03:36 PM
And for those of us with no dragon magazines or complete champion, those ACF's do...what exactly?

Kobold-Bard
2010-11-17, 03:45 PM
And for those of us with no dragon magazines or complete champion, those ACF's do...what exactly?

Eidetic Spellcaster trades your familiar for the ability to use your brain as a spellbook. You still pay to scribe new spells into it (using "special incense" instead of "special ink") but you don't have to worry about losing it because it's all in your head. If your DM is a cool guy they'll let you pay the 12k and get a 1-off uber incense stick so your brain works like a Blessed Book too.

Personally it's one of my favourite ACF's ever because all my Wizards are paranoid to the extreme.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-17, 03:46 PM
1. Learn Secret Page, put it into your spellbook.
2. Get a container for your spellbook, a simple leather cover should be sufficient, which will block line of effect for spells such as Dispel Magic.
3. Put a 0- or 1st-level spell on every page of your book except the ones containing Secret Page.
4. Use Secret Page to turn a 1-page, 1st level spell into a spell you know of any level, which now only occupies one page. You can reveal the hidden 0- or 1st-level spell whenever you want to prepare it. Now every single spell in your entire book takes up only a single page, a 100-page spellbook can contain 97 0- or 1st-level spells total, and 98 more 2nd level or higher, plus Secret Page. Once you've made the Spellcraft check to understand a spell you are considered to know that spell, and you can use Secret Page to put it into your spellbook. If it does happen to get dispelled you can just take a few days/weeks to prepare and cast Secret Page enough times to restore it to what it was.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-11-17, 04:28 PM
Aureon's Spellshard from ECS is a 6250 gp, 500-page Blessed Book. Tome of the Stilled Tongue from MIC is a 7500 gp, 500-page Blessed Book with Relic powers nobody cares about.

olentu
2010-11-17, 04:32 PM
1. Learn Secret Page, put it into your spellbook.
2. Get a container for your spellbook, a simple leather cover should be sufficient, which will block line of effect for spells such as Dispel Magic.
3. Put a 0- or 1st-level spell on every page of your book except the ones containing Secret Page.
4. Use Secret Page to turn a 1-page, 1st level spell into a spell you know of any level, which now only occupies one page. You can reveal the hidden 0- or 1st-level spell whenever you want to prepare it. Now every single spell in your entire book takes up only a single page, a 100-page spellbook can contain 97 0- or 1st-level spells total, and 98 more 2nd level or higher, plus Secret Page. Once you've made the Spellcraft check to understand a spell you are considered to know that spell, and you can use Secret Page to put it into your spellbook. If it does happen to get dispelled you can just take a few days/weeks to prepare and cast Secret Page enough times to restore it to what it was.

Hmm now that I think about it do you happen to have the rules source that states that a wizard knows a spell after making the check since as of the moment I can not locate such a reference. It is not that it matters to your whole plan since I do not recall it being necessary to know the spell in question but it would be a handy bit of rules to have since without it I must use the glossary.

AslanCross
2010-11-17, 07:00 PM
Geometer, the Blessed Book, and the Aureon's Spellshard are all good solutions. I think some PrCs can also allow you to tattoo spells onto your skin.

Synapse
2010-11-17, 07:16 PM
Geometer, the Blessed Book, and the Aureon's Spellshard are all good solutions. I think some PrCs can also allow you to tattoo spells onto your skin.

Nope, it's just an alternative writing location. Write it on your legs/arms/belly and read it yourself. Write it on your back, butt, forehead and have someone read for you. Flavorful way of preparing your favorite spell, even gives you an excuse to have tattoos all over the body.

AslanCross
2010-11-17, 07:22 PM
Nope, it's just an alternative writing location. Write it on your legs/arms/belly and read it yourself. Write it on your back, butt, forehead and have someone read for you. Flavorful way of preparing your favorite spell, even gives you an excuse to have tattoos all over the body.

Awesome. I must have had some wires crossed, then. I do remember the Blood Magus having the ability to scar his skin and use that as a scroll (ie, ready for casting).

Synapse
2010-11-17, 07:23 PM
Wasn't it a potion instead? Prepare potion in the blood and just use it whenever you want?

XD just crossed a wire in my head... A geometer could tattoo a bunch of spells on his body parts that allow more than one page.

dextercorvia
2010-11-17, 10:15 PM
Hmm now that I think about it do you happen to have the rules source that states that a wizard knows a spell after making the check since as of the moment I can not locate such a reference. It is not that it matters to your whole plan since I do not recall it being necessary to know the spell in question but it would be a handy bit of rules to have since without it I must use the glossary.
Here is the exact quote... He does seem to have missed something.

A wizard can use the procedure for learning a spell to reconstruct a lost spellbook. If she already has a particular spell prepared, she can write it directly into a new book at a cost of 100 gp per page (as noted in Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, above). The process wipes the prepared spell from her mind, just as casting it would. If she does not have the spell prepared, she can prepare it from a borrowed spellbook and then write it into a new book.

Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as replacing it, but the task is much easier. The time requirement and cost per page are halved.

Ishcumbeebeeda
2010-11-17, 10:38 PM
And for those of us with no dragon magazines or complete champion, those ACF's do...what exactly?

Make you have to do a few seconds more work. Besides, ask and ye shall receive. After all, the playground will provide.


Also, google is your friend:
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/144/l_4c32ff1034c3413a9a433de3427914eb.jpg

olentu
2010-11-17, 11:23 PM
Here is the exact quote... He does seem to have missed something.

Yeah I was rather wondering if I had missed something that could override this


For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their spellbooks.

But I suppose perhaps there was some other less obvious section that he is referencing.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-18, 12:30 AM
Hmm now that I think about it do you happen to have the rules source that states that a wizard knows a spell after making the check since as of the moment I can not locate such a reference. It is not that it matters to your whole plan since I do not recall it being necessary to know the spell in question but it would be a handy bit of rules to have since without it I must use the glossary.

Source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#arcaneMagicalWritings):

Spells Copied from Anotherís Spellbook or a Scroll

A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizardís spellbook. No matter what the spellís source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spellís level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. She cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was being copied from a scroll does not vanish from the scroll.

In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spellís level ◊ 50 gp.
This is the process a Wizard must go through to learn a spell. This applies to spells used with the feat Spell Mastery, as well as for spells cast via the Spontaneous Divination ACF in Complete Champion. For those two things and several others, a wizard need not have a spell in his spellbook but must still know it.

In my explanation of using Secret Page, you could actually get free spells with a little RP. Go to a library or another wizard or other organization which charges the standard spell level x 50 gp to copy spells. Spend a day studying a spell, make the Spellcraft check to learn it, but don't copy it into your spellbook. Pretend in-character that you failed the Spellcraft check to understand it, blame the poor quality of the copy you were given, complain that you've just wasted an entire day studying this which could have been spent doing something more productive, and refuse to pay their fee. After you leave use Secret Page to put the spell into your spellbook, taking up only a single page as described. Return the next day to repeat the process, they'll probably think that your character is just an idiot but you're getting free spells!

ericgrau
2010-11-18, 01:40 AM
At early levels you simply carry two books. Later you get the fancy books.

dextercorvia
2010-11-18, 01:45 AM
Source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#arcaneMagicalWritings):

This is the process a Wizard must go through to learn a spell. This applies to spells used with the feat Spell Mastery, as well as for spells cast via the Spontaneous Divination ACF in Complete Champion. For those two things and several others, a wizard need not have a spell in his spellbook but must still know it.

In my explanation of using Secret Page, you could actually get free spells with a little RP. Go to a library or another wizard or other organization which charges the standard spell level x 50 gp to copy spells. Spend a day studying a spell, make the Spellcraft check to learn it, but don't copy it into your spellbook. Pretend in-character that you failed the Spellcraft check to understand it, blame the poor quality of the copy you were given, complain that you've just wasted an entire day studying this which could have been spent doing something more productive, and refuse to pay their fee. After you leave use Secret Page to put the spell into your spellbook, taking up only a single page as described. Return the next day to repeat the process, they'll probably think that your character is just an idiot but you're getting free spells!

This would work to learn the spell -- but knowing a spell isn't enough to write it in your spellbook. You have to have the spell prepared or be actively copying it from another source, and I don't see how Secret Page changes this requirement.

olentu
2010-11-18, 02:12 AM
Source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#arcaneMagicalWritings):

This is the process a Wizard must go through to learn a spell. This applies to spells used with the feat Spell Mastery, as well as for spells cast via the Spontaneous Divination ACF in Complete Champion. For those two things and several others, a wizard need not have a spell in his spellbook but must still know it.

In my explanation of using Secret Page, you could actually get free spells with a little RP. Go to a library or another wizard or other organization which charges the standard spell level x 50 gp to copy spells. Spend a day studying a spell, make the Spellcraft check to learn it, but don't copy it into your spellbook. Pretend in-character that you failed the Spellcraft check to understand it, blame the poor quality of the copy you were given, complain that you've just wasted an entire day studying this which could have been spent doing something more productive, and refuse to pay their fee. After you leave use Secret Page to put the spell into your spellbook, taking up only a single page as described. Return the next day to repeat the process, they'll probably think that your character is just an idiot but you're getting free spells!

And yet none of that actually says that the spellcaster learns the spell after making the check. Sure it allows the ability to copy the spell and in the process of copying the spell learn it but the check does nothing but allow the opportunity. So far as I can tell the bit I have presented holds true as at no time in the "Spells Copied from Anotherís Spellbook or a Scroll" section does it define when a spell is learned. Because of this ambiguity there is nothing that must contradict the fact that "For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their spellbooks." since the spell is learned and copied at the same time where in the act of copying the spell also adds it to the spells known.

While this is quite an unfortunate state of affairs anything else would seem to break the rules, either one or the other, and since both can coexist any correct ruling must require both to be correct.

Tvtyrant
2010-11-18, 02:14 AM
If you steal someone else's spell book, how long until it is considered your spell book? I know you have to use a spell check to memorize a spell out of someone else's book, but does it ever become your book?

ericgrau
2010-11-18, 02:19 AM
AFAIK you need to make checks forever because it's harder to understand someone else's way of writing the standard magical symbols that describe gestures and words and that doesn't change. The fact that you can retry every day without the previous day stopping you nor helping you suggests that it starts fresh every day and stays this way forever. Maybe it's a 2e throwback where everything you memorized in the morning is wiped from your mind when you cast the spell.

olentu
2010-11-18, 02:22 AM
If you steal someone else's spell book, how long until it is considered your spell book? I know you have to use a spell check to memorize a spell out of someone else's book, but does it ever become your book?

I believe there are rules in complete arcane which allow a wizard to make a foreign spellbook in to one that is considered their spellbook.

Volos
2010-11-18, 02:23 AM
There are interesting varriant spellbooks in complete arcane that can help your spellbook survive longer. And if you must have more than one, have both of them float infront of you so you have your hands free.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-11-18, 05:49 AM
There are interesting varriant spellbooks in complete arcane that can help your spellbook survive longer. And if you must have more than one, have both of them float infront of you so you have your hands free.

Why would you need your hands free whilst preparing spells? It's not as if you'll be carrying them out in the open during combat or anything.

DarkEternal
2010-11-18, 07:54 AM
I don't know, that entire rule with spellbook pages seemed unecessary with me. In my games, I rule that you only need your one spellbook in which you write spells, and not ten of them when you become a higher level wizard with many spells at your disposal. Easier to manage.

Psyren
2010-11-18, 09:09 AM
Awesome. I must have had some wires crossed, then. I do remember the Blood Magus having the ability to scar his skin and use that as a scroll (ie, ready for casting).


Wasn't it a potion instead? Prepare potion in the blood and just use it whenever you want?

It's both - Blood Magi effectively get Brew Potion and Scribe Scroll as bonus feats (Blood Draught and Scarification respectively.) But it's still a subpar option because (a) these versions of the feats are watered down, and (b) you need two dead feats to enter (Great Fortitude and *shudder* Toughness) so it's a wash.

Zeful
2010-11-18, 02:20 PM
I don't know, that entire rule with spellbook pages seemed unecessary with me. In my games, I rule that you only need your one spellbook in which you write spells, and not ten of them when you become a higher level wizard with many spells at your disposal. Easier to manage.

Good for you. I on the other hand strictly adhear to the spellbook rule for precisely that reason.

Marnath
2010-11-18, 02:25 PM
If you steal someone else's spell book, how long until it is considered your spell book? I know you have to use a spell check to memorize a spell out of someone else's book, but does it ever become your book?

mastering a foreign spellbook:

Mastering a spellbook requires a successful Spellcraft check (DC 25 + the level of the highest-level spell in the book) and takes one week plus one day per spell contained within.

If you fail you can never try to master that particular book again until you gain another rank in spellcraft.

Tvtyrant
2010-11-18, 02:28 PM
Normal D&D seems to make the Raistlin Library difficult, since you can't actually multi-class that often. Seriously, the guy has like 1000 spell books! What freaking level is he??

Marnath
2010-11-18, 02:34 PM
Normal D&D seems to make the Raistlin Library difficult, since you can't actually multi-class that often. Seriously, the guy has like 1000 spell books! What freaking level is he??

Dragonlance doesn't use the same rules, as far as I know. I've never seen any of the rulebooks though, so Idk.

Psyren
2010-11-18, 02:36 PM
Dragonlance doesn't use the same rules, as far as I know. I've never seen any of the rulebooks though, so Idk.

The Dragonlance sourcebooks I've seen were 3.0. But yeah, many rules are heavily modified.

I think Raistlin is epic, but not sure.

Marnath
2010-11-18, 02:58 PM
The Dragonlance sourcebooks I've seen were 3.0. But yeah, many rules are heavily modified.

I think Raistlin is epic, but not sure.

Comsidering he almost made a successful bid for divinity? Yeah, it's a good chance he's epic, or even epic +.

Agrippa
2010-11-18, 03:11 PM
Comsidering he almost made a successful bid for divinity? Yeah, it's a good chance he's epic, or even epic +.

He's probably 18th level. The gods of Krynn don't allow mortals to rise any higher than that. Also the two non-Evil gods of wizardry prohibit their wizards from being clerics or anyother class with better combat skills or durability.

Dracons
2010-11-18, 03:14 PM
Sigh.

Lots forget about the ability to master a foriegn spellbook, making it your own. Saves time and money.

Spellcraft DC: 25+ highest level spell in book.

Time is one week, Plus one day per spell in book.

Boom. Spellbook is now his, and no longer has to roll spellcraft or study it or copy it. Just his.

If he fails the spellcraft, he cannot try again until next level.

But yeah, so much easier and faster then other ways.




Normal D&D seems to make the Raistlin Library difficult, since you can't actually multi-class that often. Seriously, the guy has like 1000 spell books! What freaking level is he??

Wow. Didn't know that you must be high level to have lots of spellbooks.

Maybe he just knows every single spell in every single campaign setting from every single sourcebook, including hundreds of self created spell books.

Hell, you need a two spellbooks alone for just the 9th level spells, and you'd still need an extra spellbook for some lefteverand that's from core players handbook alone. Three spellbooks for core 8th spells, with another extra, (Though you could combine them with the 9th level spellbook with pages left over).


As for me, I'm an 8th wizard. I'm on my fourth spellbook, simply because I go out of my way to find as many spells as possible, and already made at least five-six different spells per spell level.

Having lots of spellbooks shows you have a quanitly fo spells, not quality of level.

Tvtyrant
2010-11-18, 04:40 PM
He's probably 18th level. The gods of Krynn don't allow mortals to rise any higher than that. Also the two non-Evil gods of wizardry prohibit their wizards from being clerics or anyother class with better combat skills or durability.

Was 18th level, but once he ate Fisty he was probably a fair bit over that.

Dracons: No, you don't need to be super high level to have lots of spell books, but some of the spells he casts don't normally exist. He causes incurable injuries, travels through time, etc.

Has anyone ever played a LE wizard who kills wizards for their spell books? It would be kind of a cool character concept.

Anxe
2010-11-18, 07:25 PM
Complete Arcane lets your write spells on your skin. You could do that for yourself and all your party members and then you wouldn't need a spellbook!

Greenish
2010-11-18, 07:50 PM
I do remember the Blood Magus having the ability to scar his skin and use that as a scroll (ie, ready for casting).That sounds like the Runescarred Berserker to me.

Dracons
2010-11-18, 08:07 PM
Complete Arcane lets your write spells on your skin. You could do that for yourself and all your party members and then you wouldn't need a spellbook!

I take it ya read alot of Knights of the Dinner table XD.


Wait, this is a DnD board. Of course people here have.

Tvtyrant
2010-11-19, 12:31 AM
Anyone ever thought about creating an in game bartering system for trading spells from one wizard to another? Like a yearly fair where wizards gather to trade spells/supplies and then disperse before the mobs can get to them.

Dracons
2010-11-19, 12:42 AM
Forgotten Realms has that. Mage Fairs.

May even be a slight custom in Halura, as they do exchange spell componants when they go to visit their neighbor.


Basically, up to you as DM to hav esuch a thing, and if your a player, up to you to ether visit it if they exist, or start it up.

SOme wizards won't like the idea of sharing their knowledge, but more then willing to take it. So maybe at one of these fairs, golems or some other type of magic immune creature may come to wreck havoc to steal knowledge and arcane lore.

Maybe a wizard gets offended by his trade not being what was in agreement and unleashs hell.

maybe a special guest of honor is some high level wizard, like Eliminster or Raistlin, or Mordekin, etc. His enemies may appear to attack, and you get to see a demonstration of true arcane might. For your help, the famous wizard gives you a super rare spell of his own creation as thanks.


Tons of fun for the scroll exchange.

Psyren
2010-11-19, 12:44 AM
You can also have big wizard colleges like the Arcane Order. The Wizard could even be made to pay dues without being in the official PrC, for the privilege of having all those spellbooks at his fingertips.