Book Banning

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

RRAAAARRL!
A mother of a student in my school district is trying to get Huxley's Brave New World banned from the district. She has already succeeded on getting it banned from her daughter's high school, and now wants to remove it from the rest of the district. Why? She dislikes the way that Native Americans are portrayed, even though anyone with even a basic level of understanding of the book would see that Huxley intended to show that they were actually the more civilized of the two options, and that the real "savages" were those in the giant cities.

A direct quote:
"...students in her daughter's class were only able to grasp a more simplified interpretation of how the native people are depicted."
So wait, we shouldn't be allowed to read this classic book because some kids are too stupid to understand literary devices? What's the point of even having an English class then? The teacher should show the students how this creates a contrast, and how Huxley uses that to create certain feelings about the Civilization.

If your daughter's offended by thought-provoking books, give her a copy of **** and Jane, but leave my literature alone!

Sorry about the rant, but this angered me so much, I just felt I needed to vent.

[Ranger Mattos]

I've never read that book, but it sounds like that has no reason to be banned.

Harry Potter is banned in some schools for 'promoting witchcraft.'

[Kiren]

You know, I lose faith in humanity very often because of things like this.

Book banning gives none benefit but all suffers. Because some people don't get it/misinterpret it or thinks its offending to someone other then themselves.

*Face palm*

Edit: Ranger Mattos, don't forget they also tried to ban it for devilish undertones.

[CoffeeIncluded]

*Sigh* Your school district is pathetic.

Know what you do? Buy lots and lots of copies of Brave New World. Start a book club or something after school. Go nuts. :smallamused:

I'd send you my copy, but a) I don't know where you live, b) I love Brave New World, and c) My dog chewed on the corner a bit.

[Raistlin1040]

This video is related. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMPtYvZ8tM)

[Lord Raziere]

Brave New World doesn't deserved to be banned at all It predated 1984 by about decade and shows a dystopia in ways far worse than 1984, as its more realistic and some of it could actually happen, that and it shows a dystopia that is self-sustaining because everyone enjoys it too much.

Yea, the person who is banning it is basically shutting people off from understanding that our modern society could go that route if we are not careful, over something as little as that.....gets me angry to.

[truemane]

Last year or the year before a woman tried to get To Kill a Mockingbird banned from schools because it contained the N-word.

Thankfully the board had sufficient sense and spine to refuse. But some people are just plain incapable of sussing out even mild layers of subtlety.

And some people just want attention.

[Mr. Moon]

Please be careful to keep this thread from swaying into politics/religion.

[Xyk]

I've never read that book, but it sounds like that has no reason to be banned.

Harry Potter is banned in some schools for 'promoting witchcraft.'

But...isn't witchcraft legal? And satanism too. How...?:smallconfused:

People are stupid. I hate them.

[Lord Thurlvin]

Brave New World doesn't deserved to be banned at all It predated 1984 by about decade and shows a dystopia in ways far worse than 1984, as its more realistic and some of it could actually happen, that and it shows a dystopia that is self-sustaining because everyone enjoys it too much.


How is the dystopia in 1984 not realistic or self-sustaining?

[Helanna]

Arrgghhh book banning. Generally for the stupidest of reasons, that all basically boil down to "I don't approve of it, and I demand everyone in this entire district concede to my personal opinion of one book!" If she doesn't like it, she can write in and tell the teacher that she doesn't want her daughter to read it. And if the daughter's smart, she will find it and read it anyway.

My advice? Launch a counter-campaign. Seriously. You're in the school, right? What grade are you in? It's something that you can totally do, and without all that much effort, especially if you can recruit others to help.

Start with a petition. Make sure that it's well-thought-out and well-written, and make sure it's clear that you have a strong position and that you're intelligent and fighting for something you believe in. Then, get absolutely every single person you can to sign it. Students, teachers, and most importantly, parents.

Also, have parents (and students, for that matter) call or write in and complain about the censorship going on.

And especially have students complain about the "can only grasp a simplified understanding" thing, because that's just plain insulting. :smallannoyed:

Why this will work: they probably gave in to the mother just to avoid a big fight. So they're gonna be weak and give in to censorship just because they don't want to stand up for themselves? Fine. Give them a bigger fight this way, and prove that you're not all idiots incapable of grasping basic literature that are just going to sit by while one idiot ruins it for everyone else.

[thubby]

This video is related. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMPtYvZ8tM)

*highfives fellow nerdfighter*

its people like the one the OP is dealing with that makes it so we cant have nice books for school reading.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

Yeah, I actually own a copy of Brave New World. If this lady actually succeeds in getting it banned, I'm going to carry it in my hand everywhere I go, read it in class, and quote relevant passages when necessary.

Ironically, one of the points Huxley brings up is that the Savage? He reads books. The civilized people never read books. Huxley pretty obliquely states that he's a fan of books. (He should be, considering he wrote a bunch...)

The thing is, this city prides itself on being open, very liberally-minded (not in the political sense necessarily), and ethical in cases like this. And yet, someone like this actually gets to the point where she can call a vote on something like this?

And Philip Pullman weighs in! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ3VcbAfd4w&feature=player_embedded)

[deuxhero]

Whatever you do, when you are done, buy a copy of The Lesser Key of Solomon and Dictionnaire Infernal, then donate them to a school library. The freak out will be fun.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

Whatever you do, when you are done, buy a copy of The Lesser Key of Solomon and Dictionnaire Infernal, then donate them to a school library. The freak out will be fun.

:smallbiggrin: Will do.

[Zeofar]

Yea, the person who is banning it is basically shutting people off from understanding that our modern society could go that route if we are not careful, over something as little as that.....gets me angry to.

I really doubt that people will be incapable of understanding potential routes for society simply because they don't read a single piece of literature; the Dystopian idea presented in the book can be summed up in a few sentences and is already far to ingrained in western culture to be ever be "shut off."

That said, this is a horrible reason for banning the book; can't this lady even try? If you ignore meaning and tone and simply look at content instead, you could argue that it promotes suicide, drugs, and promiscuity and contains content not appropriate for high-school students (the last one is even arguably true). Possible misinterpretations of the portrayal of Native Americans is probably the weakest argument for its banning that I could ever imagine; one could almost certainly point out examples of negative portrayals of certain groups of people in average high-school, middle school, and elementary curriculum that, beside the chance of misinterpreted, are actual negative portrayals.

By the way, in what manner is the book being banned, exactly? Banned from being taught? Banned from carried in school libraries? Banned from being carried in public libraries?

[TSGames]

"...students in her daughter's class were only able to grasp a more simplified interpretation of how the native people are depicted."

Wow. Some people.... She wants to ban a book, from school, because the students are too uneducated to understand the intent of author?

...

I'm left to wonder what the point of education is, if it is not, in fact, to help young minds achieve higher levels of understanding. If she was opting to ban English class all together, her position would be no more defensible.

I beseech you to ease my mind and tell me that your district is not in America.

[Copacetic]

Send her a copy of Farenheit 451.

[Coidzor]

People are stupid. I hate them.

Yeah, pretty much a mild misanthropy is the safest protective coating.

[TSGames]

Send her a copy of Farenheit 451.
This.


Also, if the book does get banned, get Farenheit 451 to be taught as an alternative. I wonder if the kids will be able to understand the irony or if they will only be able to grasp a more simplified interpretation of events.

[Lord Thurlvin]

This.


Also, if the book does get banned, get Farenheit 451 to be taught as an alternative. I wonder if the kids will be able to understand the irony or if they will only be able to grasp a more simplified interpretation of events.

If nothing else, it should instill a fear of robot dog-things in the kids.

[thubby]

If nothing else, it should instill a fear of robot dog-things in the kids.

am i the only one who was freaked out as all hell by those things? like, i had nightmares :smalleek:

[TSGames]

am i the only one who was freaked out as all hell by those things? like, i had nightmares :smalleek:
I was a weird kid, but I thought they were cool as all get out. I want one for a pet. He would be named... ULTRA PIPI!

[Recaiden]

am i the only one who was freaked out as all hell by those things? like, i had nightmares :smalleek:

No. The Mechanical Hound was pretty horrific.

[Mystic Muse]

But...isn't witchcraft legal? And satanism too. How...?:smallconfused:

If the schools think that something will be highly offensive to a large amount of parents, they'll probably ban it so that they don't have to listen to the tidal wave of complaints regardless of legality.

[Copacetic]

am i the only one who was freaked out as all hell by those things? like, i had nightmares :smalleek:

Not in the slightest. Robo-Needle Dogs cater to your fear of the inhuman, needles, and wolves! All in one convenient package. If A Brave New World is banned, then getting Farenheit 451 taught as an alternative would be too funny to pass up.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Guess which book I have to comment on for my IB English Lit. curse?

You get three chances, and the last two don't count:smallwink:

Now seriously, I am EXTREMELY happy that I have never had to deal with something like this, to the best of my knowledge they haven't banned books in my school in like forever.

I second the idea of starting a counter, the petition is a good idea.

[Juhn]

....Of course the way the "savages" live is portrayed as f***ed up. It's supposed to be f***ed up. The way everyone lives is portrayed, very deliberately, as f***ed up. That is the point! That's why it's a dystopia!

:smallfurious:

Also, Skami Pilno, unlike this post I just made, raises a legitimate and thought-provoking point. Thank you, Skami.

[Keld Denar]

Relevant quote is relevant:


Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
And.....pwnt.

[KingOfLaughter]

"People fear that which they do not understand" (Credit to whomever knows the author of that quote)

We had one spot at our school banning Of mice and Men, but our entire lot of english students stood against it, 400+ students trumps 12 parents.

[Toptomcat]

Please be careful to keep this thread from swaying into politics/religion.

The discussion of whether or not it is healthy for a society to ban books is political by nature. It happens to be a relatively uncontroversial political subject in most liberal democracies, but asking for a discussion of book-banning to be free of political content is an impossible request.

[HalfTangible]

Somebody needs to include this in their curriculum:

"If you don't like a book on our English curriculum for any reason other than 'it's not relevant and/or thought provoking', then you can shove it."

Not because i think it'd work. It'd just be really funny :smallbiggrin:

[thubby]

Somebody needs to include this in their curriculum:

"If you don't like a book on our English curriculum for any reason other than 'it's not relevant and/or thought provoking', then you can shove it."

Not because i think it'd work. It'd just be really funny :smallbiggrin:

i don't know, "it's crushing the love of reading of every student" seems like a good reason too.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Wow. Some people.... She wants to ban a book, from school, because the students are too uneducated to understand the intent of author?

So...did the students put down the books and say "Whoa...the natives here are so stupid. I bet all Indians are stupid!" If they did, the problem is with those ignorant students. If they didn't, there really isn't a problem.

I'm also surprised she chose that reason. I expected something about it being lewd because it acknowledges that people have sex or saying it advocates drug use...but this was a stretch.

The plus side is that this will actually make more people aware of the book.

I actually thought the "dystopia" seemed like a good place to live. No torture, no stormtroopers...they don't NEED them. You're free to not take your soma but almost everyone chooses to. Why wouldn't they?

[Mystic Muse]

i don't know, "it's crushing the love of reading of every student" seems like a good reason too.

Yeah, a book should be appealing in addition to thought provoking/relevant.

[KingOfLaughter]

It should go like this, If you do't want it read by your kid, then let them not read it and fail the course. It's picked for a reason, most teachers attempt to make them work with the course. Some parents are even more dimwitted then the students who miss understand what the novels about.

[WalkingTarget]

Neil Gaiman (http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html) on the whole free speech/censorship issue. Essentially, it boils down to standing up for free speech as a basic right means standing up to defend things that you might not actually even like.

I'm actually working on becoming a librarian, and this sort of "best intentions" censorship really annoys me. It comes down to people feeling that their opinions on what is proper are somehow objectively better than others'.

Won't somebody think of the children? :smallsigh:

[KingOfLaughter]

Neil Gaiman (http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html) on the whole free speech/censorship issue. Essentially, it boils down to standing up for free speech as a basic right means standing up to defend things that you might not actually even like.

I'm actually working on becoming a librarian, and this sort of "best intentions" censorship really annoys me. It comes down to people feeling that their opinions on what is proper are somehow objectively better than others'.

Won't somebody think of the children? :smallsigh:

I'll think of them since I am one and enjoy my literature, I'll admit I dislike most of the books the schools present to us, but they have a reason to bring them up, they fit in with the course. English involves reading/writing, there is no better way then reading a good, long, sophisticated novel.


They could throw the odyssey and the Illiad at students, I'd love to see taht ****storm.

[Moff Chumley]

I'll think of them since I am one and enjoy my literature, I'll admit I dislike most of the books the schools present to us, but they have a reason to bring them up, they fit in with the course. English involves reading/writing, there is no better way then reading a good, long, sophisticated novel.


They could throw the odyssey and the Illiad at students, I'd love to see taht ****storm.

Between that and the Shakespeare, sophomore year English in my area is pretty obnoxious. If only they'd let us read anything like Brave New World... :smallyuk:

[Hawkfrost000]

Let me get this straight, someone wants to ban a book because the students didn't understand it at first glance? thats why its taught, to give the student more knowledge about the topic and to allow them next time, to understand a book like this at first glance.

this concerned mother wants us to stop teaching our children?

i hate to use this word but nothing else applies: that woman is stupid:smallannoyed:

DM

[Elder Tsofu]

Alternative hypothesis:

The woman thinks the book is great, a classic every child should read. Unfortunately no child wants to read an dusty old classic with all electronics and glittering vampires to occupy their attention.
By proposing to ban the book she gives it a forbidden air which attracts the, previously, non-interested children like moths to a searchlight.

[Prospekt]

Send her a copy of Farenheit 451.

Haha, that's amazing, I applaud you, sir.

Unfortunately, that's the way it goes. Heck, a couple years ago, at my old school, we had to have books that were literally 3rd grade level as summer reading because parents didn't want anything that could be even slightly offensive; it also really doesn't help when, y'know, those students get to English 4 and are only refreshing their memories over the summer with elementary books.

[Keld Denar]

I had to get a signed permission slip to read Fallen Angels and then watch Platoon when I was a senior in HS. Funny how nobody would protest that. Americans don't have a problem with violence, just sex.

[Coidzor]

^: I blame the Victorians myself.
If nothing else, it should instill a fear of robot dog-things in the kids.

Which is only right. The Terminator franchise has sapped all of the horror of the inevitable robot uprising from our young people, after all.

[Worlok]

Also, if the book does get banned, get Farenheit 451 to be taught as an alternative. I wonder if the kids will be able to understand the irony or if they will only be able to grasp a more simplified interpretation of events.
Ironically, Ray Bradbury did not even intend for this book to be taken as a statement against censorship, but as a lament on how television destroys interest in literature (http://www.laweekly.com/2007-05-31/news/ray-bradbury-fahrenheit-451-misinterpreted/). I don't know whether the general reading public or the author is to blame for that having gone completely wrong, but it is a (logically and thematically somewhat sound) misconception.

[KingOfLaughter]

I had to get a signed permission slip to read Fallen Angels and then watch Platoon when I was a senior in HS. Funny how nobody would protest that. Americans don't have a problem with violence, just sex.

Platoon? We watched Saving Private Ryan in history just cause I asked

[Strawberries]

Wait, what? Parents can do that? :smalleek:

My mother is a teacher and if some parent asked her to stop teaching the curriculum she'll send them off and have a laugh on it. The school teaches what it teaches. If a parent is concerned, maybe they should spend more time with their child, putting their education beside what they get from the school.

Maybe it's just different where I live. :smallconfused:

@V A face, really? I never looked at it that way...

[Coidzor]

^: Sounds like. Italy is pretty different from the U.S. We've got a face and you've got a lady's boot, to name a geographical difference.
Ironically, Ray Bradbury did not even intend for this book to be taken as a statement against censorship, but as a lament on how television destroys interest in literature (http://www.laweekly.com/2007-05-31/news/ray-bradbury-fahrenheit-451-misinterpreted/). I don't know whether the general reading public or the author is to blame for that having gone completely wrong, but it is a (logically and thematically somewhat sound) misconception.

Well, 'twas quite the happy mistake, anyway. :smallamused: Well, except for him, I suppose.

[Kislath]

Why are you complaining here when you SHOULD be talking to CNN?

[Mewtarthio]

Platoon? We watched Saving Private Ryan in history just cause I asked

*raises hand* [i]Fight Club[/b]. The teacher was upset her gender studies class got canceled, so she incorporated a portion of its content into our AP English curriculum.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Eh, where I went to middle school in the US, Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn and much of the rest of Mark Twain was banned. Because it uses the n-word. Despite the fact that half the plot of Huck Finn is about trying to get Jim down to Memphis from where he can go up North and be free...

Uncle Tom's Cabin I won't even get into.

[Amiel]

Won't somebody think of the children? :smallsigh:
What are you talking about, nobody ever thinks of the children :smallamused::smalltongue:

[Zeb The Troll]

The discussion of whether or not it is healthy for a society to ban books is political by nature. It happens to be a relatively uncontroversial political subject in most liberal democracies, but asking for a discussion of book-banning to be free of political content is an impossible request.Troll Patrol: Indeed. Topic closed.