who would you rather make a deal with?

[shumoko]

as the title says, who would you rather make a deal with?

a devil (lawful evil)

or

a demon (chaotic evil)

this question came up as a slightly off topic discussion in another thread,

frankly i'd rather deal with a devil.

[Haruki-kun]

But what's the difference? They're both evil, right? They're both just gonna try to screw you over. :smallconfused:

[Gullara]

Erm, walk away? That's an option right?

[mucat]

With a demon, you are slightly less doomed.

A devil is likely to have been crafting deals like this since before mortals descended from the trees. She has seen every trick and loophole, learned to close them off to you, and to reopen them and put them to work for her. You are a hayseed rube in the hands of the world's best lawyer. She has this down to a science, she is better at it than you are, and she will make damned sure you cannot win.

A demon might be just as old, just as crafty, and just as evil...but he is not just as systematic. Rather than relying on eons of carefully analyzed experience, he's likely to get creative with the terms of the contract, take a path he hasn't tried before, and act on a momentary flash of intuition. He's just as evil as the devil and just as determined to screw you over...but if he's inventing tactics as he goes along, there is a minute chance that he might make a mistake, and you can wriggle free of your doom.

Either way, not a great idea. If there's a mortal who can possibly do what you need done, then make a deal with them instead.

[Strawberries]

If I had absolutely no other choice?

A demon. Lawful evil is scary as hell. Lawful everything is scary as hell, come to think of it.

And as mucat said, signing a deal with a lawful evil entity...not a great idea. A chaotic one is more likely to leave loopholes. :smallwink:

[Sipex]

Guys...we're talking about a LEGAL contract with a chaotic being.

There might as well be no contract, he'll just ignore it and run you through when he gets bored.

[pendell]

Neither. There's no way I'm going to come out ahead on this deal. A devil might be marginally safer, because they will honor the letter of an agreement -- in the way a Microsoft lawyer and their 1500 page consent agreements would. But I don't expect to out-lawyer a devil, and a demon has no reason to keep his word or honor any bargain. So the best choice is none of the above.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Icewalker]

Sipex pretty much summed it up. Devil, hands down. Because if it's a devil, then sure the contract is entirely designed to screw you over, but you can read it, and be careful, and make sure you know what you're signing. You know that the devil will follow the agreement as laid out. If it's a demon, he'll do whatever the abyss he feels like doing to you as soon as he's bored, whatever you signed.

[valadil]

Devil. I would at least trust the devil not to gore and eat me just for being in its presence. I'd probably get screwed in the deal, but it would be better than dying before I could even agree to anything.

[Mystic Muse]

I'd walk away.

[Mulletmanalive]

And as mucat said, signing a deal with a lawful evil entity...not a great idea. A chaotic one is more likely to leave loopholes. :smallwink:

I think leaving loopholes is moot when, even if he follows the contract [like, say, a Glabrezu might], he's going to follow the spirit of the contract as HE understood it. Which means that the moment you try to get the better of him, all bets are off, unless you have leverage

[Douglas]

As classically portrayed in D&D, I would prefer the devil because the demon cannot be trusted to actually follow the terms of the contract. With a devil, yes he's got tons of experience and expertise with this sort of thing, but at least I get the chance to try spotting the hidden traps and loopholes and if I succeed he'll let it go. With a demon, hidden traps and loopholes are irrelevant because he'll screw me over regardless.

[Salbazier]

Neither, nuff said.

[druid91]

Both. I'd force them to work as a two man team. Hopefully they would be so distracted I could get them to agree to install me as king of hell and the abyss.

The abyss wouldn't last but I still get hell.

[Form]

A demon. Lawful evil is scary as hell. Lawful everything is scary as hell, come to think of it.

Really? At least lawful is predictable to some degree because they have rules to adhere to. Whether it's a code of honour, rigid ideology or just the letter of the law they follow I'd much prefer to deal with those of lawful than those of chaotic alignment (be they evil, good or neutral).

I'd take the devil over the demon. Sure, I'll most likely get screwed anyway but at least I can expect the devil to actually honour the contract even if it is in the most literal sense. I'd be surprised if the demon holds his end of the bargain.

And come on folks, don't just say neither. Yes, it is the smarter, safer thing to do, but you're supposed to make a choice between the two here.:smalltongue:

[Sipex]

Both. I'd force them to work as a two man team. Hopefully they would be so distracted I could get them to agree to install me as king of hell and the abyss.

The abyss wouldn't last but I still get hell.

If you got them to agree to that they would have a reason for wanting you there.

You underestimate fictional characters with high intelligence.

[druid91]

If you got them to agree to that they would have a reason for wanting you there.

You underestimate fictional characters with high intelligence.

No I don't, I realize that I am just being used for some move in a game beyond my understanding or depth. My goal then is to learn this game, and win.

Of course I would probably die horribly. Eh, that's what you sign up for. Literally.

[Strawberries]

As classically portrayed in D&D, I would prefer the devil because the demon cannot be trusted to actually follow the terms of the contract. With a devil, yes he's got tons of experience and expertise with this sort of thing, but at least I get the chance to try spotting the hidden traps and loopholes and if I succeed he'll let it go. With a demon, hidden traps and loopholes are irrelevant because he'll screw me over regardless.

You do have a point. :smalltongue:
Still, I stand by my opinion that lawful evil is scarier. Way scarier. :smalleek:

[Sipex]

I think it would depend on what the terms of the contract are and what the demon and devil can do to me.

I mean, in the end, if the demon is just going to kill me then that's probably the better deal.

You know, instead of signing my soul away or something to a devil who'll take whatever I give him.

[thubby]

i'd make a deal with the devil to make the demon give me an honest deal, just so i could watch the inevitable carnage :smallwink:

[SaintRidley]

With a devil you know exactly what you'll get - the best possible result of the deal for the devil and your soul in the Hells.

With a demon, you also know exactly what you get - eaten or otherwise horribly killed.

The choice lies in how suicidal you're thinking.

[ghost_warlock]

Meh, I'm star-pact.

http://www.nyder.com/cthulhu/graphics/hello_cthulhu2.gif

[Temotei]

I'd run. If that's not an option, I stab both the devil and the demon, then run.

...If that's not possible, I stab myself. I'm not dealing with those things.

[druid91]

Meh, I'm star-pact.

http://www.nyder.com/cthulhu/graphics/hello_cthulhu2.gif

You know what? Is there room on this team?

[arguskos]

The Devil. I at least know what the deal *is*.

Ideally though, a Slaad. Why? Because oranges clear anarchically politic. :smallcool:

[ghost_warlock]

You know what? Is there room on this team?

Certainly. Here's some literature (http://www.fredvanlente.com/cthulhutract/pages/) to help you make your final decision.

[Trog]

I pick him (http://www.tvparty.com/bgifs5/montyhead.jpg).

[druid91]

Certainly. Here's some literature (http://www.fredvanlente.com/cthulhutract/pages/) to help you make your final decision.

After reading your enlightened literature I have decided to join team Cthulhu.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

[Ashen Lilies]

Come now people. Choosing demons over devils? There's nothing wrong with us! We don't bite! Or at least, not without proper cause.

[happyturtle]

Okay, a demon might negotiate a contract. Might even sign one. Might even keep to the terms of one.

But if he did, it was solely a coincidence that his own desires happened to coincide with the terms of the contract. He's CHAOTIC. That contract is worth less than toilet paper.

[rakkoon]

Demon all the way, he'll probably forget all about me in his next maniacal mood swing

[shumoko]

Demon all the way, he'll probably forget all about me in his next maniacal mood swing

not likely =/ demons see themselves as the center of the multiverse, everything revolves around them, his next mood swing he/she might just kill you to help ease his/her ever growing rage

edit: that is of course unless you serve a very good purpose to them, then they might hold themselves in check.

[Asta Kask]

What's the point of making a deal with a demon? He's not going to follow through anyway.

[mikeejimbo]

Demon. Being chaotic he isn't going to follow it anyway, so I have no motivation to follow it either.

So basically, the net result would be "there is no deal."

Edit: Just had a thought. If the situation came to such that I'm dealing with either of these entities, I'm probably screwed. If, for some reason, a demon and a devil came to me and said "Make a deal with one of us or die!" I'd say, "OK. Mr. Demon, I'll give you a nickel for a piece of bubblegum" and he'd say "OK, hand over the nickel" and then he'd take it and say "I'm Chaotic, so you're not getting any bubblegum, mwuahaha" and I'd say "Pretty sneaky, sis!"