Tashalatora?

[darbythegambler]

I hear it's useful for monk builds or certain psionic builds, but I've never seen it before, can someone point me in the right direction? Where is it from? What is it? What does it do?

[Boci]

Its a feat from Secrets of Sarlona. Allows monk and manifester classes to stack for unarmed damage, furry progression and a couple of other things.

[Eldariel]

Its a feat from Secrets of Sarlona. Allows monk and manifester classes to stack for unarmed damage, furry progression and a couple of other things.

In other words, it stacks Monk abilities on a Psionic class. Given the fluff of Monks is mostly Psionic anyways, it only makes sense. The good news is that Psionics works great with Monks making Tashalatora Monks like Monks except competent at what they do.

[Psyren]

It's also online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070212a&page=5)

Note that it does not stack ALL monk abilties (e.g. monk speed is not advanced)

[darbythegambler]

Sweet! thanks :smallsmile:

[Kylarra]

Its a feat from Secrets of Sarlona. Allows monk and manifester classes to stack for unarmed damage, furry progression and a couple of other things.To be specific, a single psionic class that you have monastic training for.

[Tokuhara]

So a Talashtora Ascetic Psion is a good combo for say a Thri-Kreen?

[Psyren]

Thri-Kreen are +5 LA, (+3 non-psionic) so I advise against them.

[Tokuhara]

Thri-Kreen are +5 LA, (+3 non-psionic) so I advise against them.

3 LA 1 RHD. Read the book myself.

[Kobold-Bard]

Its a feat from Secrets of Sarlona. Allows monk and manifester classes to stack for unarmed damage, furry progression and a couple of other things.

What kind of crazy-ass Monks have you been playing :smallwink:

[Keld Denar]

Catfolk monks? *pounce*

[Psyren]

3 LA 1 RHD. Read the book myself.

My bad, was reading the MM2 version.

Still, that's a high starting ECL to tack on top of your monk level(s) before you even get into a psionic class.

[Tokuhara]

My bad, was reading the MM2 version.

Still, that's a high starting ECL to tack on top of your monk level(s) before you even get into a psionic class.

Right, but the advantages of 4 arms and +30 Jump outweighs the 3 LA, not to mention a PLA that deals damage. Come on! 4 Arms!!!

[Psyren]

Right, but the advantages of 4 arms and +30 Jump outweighs the 3 LA, not to mention a PLA that deals damage. Come on! 4 Arms!!!

I'd rather have 9ths :smalltongue:

Though an Ardent still can... if you don't mind a severe PP reduction.

[Tokuhara]

I'd rather have 9ths :smalltongue:

Though an Ardent still can... if you don't mind a severe PP reduction.

.... How is this cheese possible?! I've read every book like it was my bible...

I was gonna ask what PrCs are great for a Talashatora monk, since none I've seen offer BOTH psionics and Unarmed Strike progression...

[sonofzeal]

.... How is this cheese possible?! I've read every book like it was my bible...

I was gonna ask what PrCs are great for a Talashatora monk, since none I've seen offer BOTH psionics and Unarmed Strike progression...
No PrCs. Taking a PrC would mean you lose the benefit, and would have to spend TWO feats to get it back.

Ardent gets 9ths because of the wording. Basically, your PP is based on your Ardent level, but a multiclass Ardent can still get powers at the appropriate level, up to a point.

[Tokuhara]

No PrCs. Taking a PrC would mean you lose the benefit, and would have to spend TWO feats to get it back.

Ardent gets 9ths because of the wording. Basically, your PP is based on your Ardent level, but a multiclass Ardent can still get powers at the appropriate level, up to a point.

and those feats are?

[Person_Man]

What kind of crazy-ass Monks have you been playing :smallwink:

Whatever Furry Progression does, I'm betting that it's better then the standard Monk. Or at the very least, more amusing.


On topic: If you're willing to invest the resources in it, it's not that hard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777) to get 12d6+ damage with pretty much any natural weapon.

Monk 1/Psychic Warrior 19 or something similar with Tashalatora (which requires the otherwise useless Monastic Training feat as a pre-req, btw) is one of the more efficient methods, in that you get Monk 20 unarmed progression and have easy access to Expansion, which gives you 2 size increases. That by itself gets you to 6d8 base damage. Add on 1-2 more spells, feats, or magic items, and you're set. Another noteworthy benefit of this build is that unlike many other high damage melee builds, you're not a 1 or 2 trick pony. You have a host of other psionic powers that you can use, and you get bonus feats as part of your normal progression.

[Psyren]

.... How is this cheese possible?! I've read every book like it was my bible...

In short: Ardents learn powers based on manifester level, rather than following a fixed progression like other casters.

In long:
Ardents have a very unique powers known progression. They are the only class that can jump around, rather than being forced to acquire powers in sequence (e.g. 1st-level, then 2nd-level, then 3rd etc.) Instead, the highest power-level you can learn is a function of your manifester level, allowing anything that modifies your manifester level (Practiced Manifester, Overchannel, ioun stones etc.) to modify the progression in turn.

The upshot is that an Ardent with Practiced Manifester can gain 9th-level powers as low as class level 13, so long as their ECL is at least 17. (13 + 4 = 17.)

However, you pay a price - because you're jumping ahead in your progression to 9ths, you're trading in your mid-level powers. You'll also have the base PP of an Ardent 13 rather than an Ardent 17 - a whopping 196 PP less. So it's still a bad idea to lose a lot of ML, even though you hurt less for doing so than a Psion or Psywar would.



I was gonna ask what PrCs are great for a Talashatora monk, since none I've seen offer BOTH psionics and Unarmed Strike progression...

You really don't need any - Tashalatora makes your base class advance unarmed strike and psionics. (And does a far better job at this than Fist of Zuoken or Zerth Cenobite.)


and those feats are?

You would have to retake monastic training and tashalatora, applying them to your PrC this time. It's a massive waste.



Monk 1/Psychic Warrior 19 or something similar with Tashalatora (which requires the otherwise useless Monastic Training feat as a pre-req, btw)

You can spend your monk bonus feat on it though, so it's not too painful.

[Tokuhara]

In short: Ardents learn powers based on manifester level, rather than following a fixed progression like other casters.

In long:
Ardents have a very unique powers known progression. They are the only class that can jump around, rather than being forced to acquire powers in sequence (e.g. 1st-level, then 2nd-level, then 3rd etc.) Instead, the highest power-level you can learn is a function of your manifester level, allowing anything that modifies your manifester level (Practiced Manifester, Overchannel, ioun stones etc.) to modify the progression in turn.

The upshot is that an Ardent with Practiced Manifester can gain 9th-level powers as low as class level 13, so long as their ECL is at least 17. (13 + 4 = 17.)
However, you pay a price - because you're jumping ahead in your progression to 9ths, you're trading in your mid-level powers. You'll also have the base PP of an Ardent 13 rather than an Ardent 17 - a whopping 196 PP less. So it's still a bad idea to lose a lot of ML, even though you hurt less for doing so than a Psion or Psywar would.


Makes sense... Even with less PP, you can STILL handle your way around Powers...



You really don't need any - Tashalatora makes your base class advance unarmed strike and psionics. (And does a far better job at this than Fist of Zuoken or Zerth Cenobite.)

You would have to retake monastic training and tashalatora, applying them to your PrC this time. It's a massive waste.

I love Fist of Zouken... Lots of great class features and the Punch-into-next-Thursday ability just seems fricken sweet...

and with a DM who gives us essentially 3 extra feats (he makes us get feats every 2 levels and Ability scores every 3), 2 feats doesn't seem THAT bad, especially for good class features.

[Psyren]

I love Fist of Zouken... Lots of great class features and the Punch-into-next-Thursday ability just seems fricken sweet...

Actually, Punch-into-next-week is Zerth Cenobite.
Fist of Zuoken, aka Psionic Fist, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) is on the SRD.


and with a DM who gives us essentially 3 extra feats (he makes us get feats every 2 levels and Ability scores every 3), 2 feats doesn't seem THAT bad, especially for good class features.

No! It's a trap!

Those two PrCs are meant as a way for monks to gain psionic abilities. Tashalatora is for psionic classes to gain monk abilities. Big difference!

PF and ZC have their own power progression and manifester level - they won't stack with Psywar or Ardent or anything else. They are also terribly weak options - max ML of 10 (14 with PM) makes dispelling your buffs a cakewalk, and your tiny PP pool (half what a Psywar 20 gets, and they are starved) means it won't take long for you to run dry.

There is no PrC that works well with Tashalatora - and there doesn't need to be. Trust us, stay in your base class :smallsmile:

[Tokuhara]

Actually, Punch-into-next-week is Zerth Cenobite.
Fist of Zuoken, aka Psionic Fist, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) is on the SRD.



No! It's a trap!

Those two PrCs are meant as a way for monks to gain psionic abilities. Tashalatora is for psionic classes to gain monk abilities. Big difference!

PF and ZC have their own power progression and manifester level - they won't stack with Psywar or Ardent or anything else. They are also terribly weak options - max ML of 10 (14 with PM) makes dispelling your buffs a cakewalk, and your tiny PP pool (half what a Psywar 20 gets, and they are starved) means it won't take long for you to run dry.

There is no PrC that works well with Tashalatora - and there doesn't need to be. Trust us, stay in your base class :smallsmile:

If only there was a way for Ardent to get Zerth Cenobite's "super punch"

[Keld Denar]

Really, you only need about 11 levels of monk progression to get the best feature, Greater Flurry. The damage you can boost with Superior Unarmed Strike or a Monk's Belt, but Flurry is only progressed by Tash. Thus, 2 monk levels + a 10 level PrC will still get you Greater Flurry and then some.

One build I've been playing around with a lot lately is Monk2/Ardent1/Totemist2/SoulManifester10. You get 12 levels of monky stuff, 12 levels of totemy stuff, and 15 levels of ardent stuff, all from 15 levels, and you still have 5 levels to play with. Thats not half bad, IMO.

[Urpriest]

In terms of PrCs, if instead of taking Monastic Training for Psywar or Ardent you take it for Illithid Slayer then it can function as a fairly good Tash build. You only really need 11 levels of flurry anyway to max out the benefits, IIRC. It does come later, but 10 levels of full BAB is nice.

[RndmNumGen]

Sorry for the bump, but does anyone know exactly what bonuses stack with the psionic class levels when you take Tashalatora? I can't find the original description of the feat, and I need to know exactly what it does before I talk to my DM about it. I know it doesn't effect movement rate, but does it effect Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Damage and Monk's AC Bonus?

[Psyren]

Not to worry - it's been less than six weeks, so it's not necromancy.

Tashalatora advances 3 things:
- AC bonus
- Flurry
- Unarmed damage (fist dice)

Psionics can be used to cover for the rest.

[RndmNumGen]

Thanks a lot!