Hyperconcious - too hyped?

[true_shinken]

SO I finally got to take a look at Hyperconcious. I've heard great things about the book... and I must say I am disapointed.
The art sucks. Most 3rd party D&D art sucks, but this? I wasn't expecting something like this. It's a pdf, for crying out loud, why must it be black and white?
I don't like the 'it's an adventure plus it's an update' thingy. It's not a complaint, I just don't see the reasoning behind it.
I also don't like the 'XPH is doing it wrong' vibe that goes with stuff like Blade Manifester (though it is a good idea) and the alternative Pyrokineticist.
The names sometimes are awful. Sequester Power? Really?
Also, at times it feels they haven't done their homework with 3.5 psionics... which this is supposed to update their old material to! They say psi-like abilities 'can't be augmented'... wait, what? They are auto-augmented depended on HD! And they have a prestige class with an ability score requirement... it says right ther ein the DMG 'don't to that, silly!'. Really, most of the 3rd party I see that have prestige classes with ability score requirements I just ignore.

I'm sad, really. Guess I'll have to wait for Pathfinder's Psionics for more material. I hear their Soulknife is pretty pimp.

[The Glyphstone]

Well, when your only serious competition was Complete Psionics, Hyperconscious does look fairly good...

[Drascin]

Well, personally I found it pretty good. I liked Untapped Potential better, though.

[Aotrs Commander]

It's a pdf, for crying out loud, why must it be black and white?

I'd prefer it if more stuff in PDF was in black and white, because it's a bugger to print in colour or greyscale, and I don't have the option (even if I was inclined) to use a computer to read the quest from...

Though I personally have the hard-copy of Hyperconcious.

Also, black and white was good enough for Rolemaster and (most of) Warhammer FRP 2st edition and 95% of wargames rules (and most other RPG rules come to that). I actually strongly disapprove of recent insistance that actual rulebooks be shiny and colourful with a gazillon colour pictures. It's fine if there's a good reason, and you can get a decent artist, but some times, it gets way out of hand. And, as I say, I wholeheartedly wish that places like Paizo did printer-friendly versions of things like their adventure paths. Printing that stuff out is bloody murder on my printer ink, even in grey-scale.

On Topic:
It was certainly better than Complete Psi, and contained more stuff of use than many WotC sourcebooks. However. I'll grant you it wasn't earth shattering. I got it because Untapped Potential (which is Freaking. Awesome.) referenced it and used some of the material.

(And also because Astral Zealot was used in the old Psionic Naruto Builds thread at WotC for Naruto Uzumaki. Yeah, so stab me already.)

[Eloel]

Printing that stuff out is bloody murder on my printer ink, even in grey-scale.


On that, I tend to use external sources to print for me. Example: My school prints b&w pages at 3 cents a piece.

Yes, when they anger the student body, rapid printing of full-black pages occur.

Chances are, the maximum you'll find at whatever store could do printing will be 5c a piece, so you don't need to screw your own ink.

[Psyren]

I respect your opinion shinken, but I must disagree with it; Hyperconscious is an amazing book. For 1/3 of the price of Complete Psionic, you get 3x the usable content. Sure the artwork isn't the greatest, but (a) It's still just $11 worth, and (b) nobody can really stand up to WotC in that regard anyway.

First, PrCs. CPsi has two good ones (Soulbow, Anarchic Initiate.) The rest are a pile of dreck.

Meanwhile, Hyperconscious has more than 10 good ones:

- Astral Zealot: Create an astral construct that you can wear like a suit. 8/10 manifesting.
- Awakened Dreamer: This one is a way to incorporate some of the dream mechanics from the other parts of the book into a character in the waking world. 8/10 manifesting.
- Cerebral Rager: Rage Mage for Wilders, except it doesn't suck. 8/10 manifesting.
- Chakra Savant: this one is like a Meditant-lite. Instead of ability score buffs, you get nice PLAs, and the meditation time is drastically reduced. The capstone is Wish (Reality Revision) as a PLA, and you can delay the XP cost as long as you want. 8/10 manifesting.
- Chronorebel: Just as the Elocater focuses on monkeying with space, now we have a PrC that can monkey with time. Ever wanted Time Stop as a supernatural ability? Want a capstone that will make your DM yank his hair out? This PrC is for you. 8/10 manifesting.
- Colorless Adept: MotAO for Psions/Wilders, with much better flavor. 8/10 manifesting.
- Crystal Prolesyte Now everyone can be a Psiforged; This is RMM for psions. 8/10 manifesting.
- Dream Keeper This one's pretty straightforward - add a bunch of powers to your powers known that deal with dreams. Your astral constructs also turn black and gain fast healing, and you get bonus PP. 8/10 manifesting.
- Dreamwright: You can summon any corporeal aberration, animal, dragon, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid or vermin in the game by making it a "reflexion" (i.e. dreaming of it.) You are limited only by your imagination, the HD of your subject and your Craft check. At the capstone, you can possess your creations and control them directly. 7/10 manifesting.
- Ghostbreaker: Now you can get Turn Undead onto your Ardent/Psywar/Wilder. 5/5 manifesting.
- Metamind: They fixed it! They fixed it! 7/10 manifesting.
- Pattern Master: This guy focuses on psionic tattoos. Sadly, the upgraded tattoo rules in Mind's Eye reduce his usefulness somewhat, but you can still combine him with them for true tattoo mastery. He can activate his tattoos as a swift action and gains regeneration (not merely fast healing) at the capstone. 8/10 manifesting.
- Plangent: Turn any class into a Soulknife, only with powers. 8/10 manifesting.
- Psychic Chirurgeon: As the name implies, a psionic healer. Unlike Sangehirn though, this one doesn't suck. 5/7 manifesting.

Then we have feats. CPsi had a handful of good ones, like Metapower and Linked Power. Hyperconscious has more:

(F): Focus Dependent
- Anticipate Power: Psionic counterspells, need I say more? The flavor is dynamite; who doesn't want part of their mind shifted outside the time stream?
- Continual Power (F): Give any damaging power a duration = concentration, with only a one-time PP increase.
- Creature Capacitor: You become a cognizance crystal. Unlike Psiforged, this is full ML rather than 1/2 ML.
- Durable Construct: Astral Constructs last 10 minutes instead of round/level.
- Overwhelm Buffer: Force nonpsionic foes into a mindscape battle - at a severe disadvantage, and they get nothing even if they win. How is that fair on the poor orc barbarian? :smallwink:
- Permanent Focus: For a given feat, you are always treated as focused even if you expend. This goes GREAT with:
- Persistent Power (F): 24-hour buffs, yay! Combine with Permanent Focus and you can have as many of them up as you can afford.
- Subconscious/Preconscious Power (F): Manifest powers even while disabled/unconscious/helpless. The latter lets you hit enemies too. Talk about revenge!
- Sequester Power: "Turn off" any number of powers you know to boost your PP total up to 150% of normal. This is ridiculously good for Erudites, but anybody can make use of it (e.g. the Telepath in the undead crypt can shut off everything except Astral Construct for a boatload more PP.)
- Skill Finesse: Apply your highest ability score to any skill in place of the regular skill needed. That's right, you can make Autohypnosis/Diplomacy checks with Int if you're a Psion, Hide/Move Silently/UPD with Int for Psychic Rogues etc. Note that the skill does not have to be a class skill either.
Transcend Limits: One of my favorites; you can now Overchannel up to +4 ML, and the Overchannel increases are accelerated. (Do you even need to be a Wilder anymore?) You take a lot more damage, but guess what: Talented still applies. Zing!


Hyperconscious also has the unique and very awesome Mindscape Battle system. When you battle psionic foes, your mental avatars clash, granting advantages/disadvantages to the real-world combatants.

Then there's the items and monsters and bonus adventure... I could go on and on. And it's perfectly compatible with UTP. All this for $11!

[Aotrs Commander]

Chances are, the maximum you'll find at whatever store could do printing will be 5c a piece, so you don't need to screw your own ink.

Not over this side of the pond... It's more like 10p a sheet; if you're lucky.

In the absense of a work/school/whatever printer to cadge off, I have to do it myself. (I fidn I also want to do it double sided, and only the actual module bits, which at least cuts the amount down, something that's much harder to do at a store or something.)

[dsmiles]

Also, black and white was good enough for Rolemaster and (most of) Warhammer FRP 2st edition and 95% of wargames rules (and most other RPG rules come to that). I actually strongly disapprove of recent insistance that actual rulebooks be shiny and colourful with a gazillon colour pictures. It's fine if there's a good reason, and you can get a decent artist, but some times, it gets way out of hand. And, as I say, I wholeheartedly wish that places like Paizo did printer-friendly versions of things like their adventure paths. Printing that stuff out is bloody murder on my printer ink, even in grey-scale.Agreed. Black and white insides are much better on ink conservation, but I do enjoy a good bright, shiny, candy-like cover.

On Topic:
It was certainly better than Complete Psi, and contained more stuff of use than many WotC sourcebooks. However. I'll grant you it wasn't earth shattering. I got it because Untapped Potential (which is Freaking. Awesome.) referenced it and used some of the material.Oh, look at that, I agree here too. It's amazing. The book, that is, not the fact that I agree. It provides better options than CPsi, and for less cost.

[true_shinken]

I respect your opinion shinken, but I must disagree with it; Hyperconscious is an amazing book. For 1/3 of the price of Complete Psionic, you get 3x the usable content. Sure the artwork isn't the greatest, but (a) It's still just $11 worth, and (b) nobody can really stand up to WotC in that regard anyway.
Agreed. I just expected a hyped book to be better on this regard.


First, PrCs. CPsi has two good ones (Soulbow, Anarchic Initiate.) The rest are a pile of dreck.
But theyare not 'unusable' or anything. I like Ebon Saint and Storm Disciple. I'd play them, no problem. 'This book has more optimizable material' does not mean it's better, atleast not for me.


Hyperconscious also has the unique and very awesome Mindscape Battle system. When you battle psionic foes, your mental avatars clash, granting advantages/disadvantages to the real-world combatants.
Which is basically 3.0 psionics combat updated. I don't find it that much unique. But for the price, I believe you are right.

[Drascin]

But theyare not 'unusable' or anything. I like Ebon Saint and Storm Disciple. I'd play them, no problem. 'This book has more optimizable material' does not mean it's better, atleast not for me.

Some of them are. Look at the Illithid class. Read it very carefully. Notice something? Yes, the main class feature of that one's mechanically unusable. Woo.

Storm disciple is a divine PrC. It fits absolutely nothing in psionics. You could have a demon-summoning PrC for Psions and it'd fit about as much. I just turn it into a divine PrC. And even as a divine PrC, it's about as bland as Eldritch Knight fluffwise! My players' general reaction to mentioning them Storm Disciple is to confuse it for that divine-based guy with the storm javelins, for Heaven's sake, and this was a party with three psionicists out of five!

The Zerth is basically taking an awesome fluff tibdit and giving it mechanics that do very little on average, and then restricting them to only doing anything once per day and twiddle their fingers the rest of the day while their partners actually get to use their abilities.

I'm not even going to get on the feats.

I may prefer Untapped potential, but at least Hyperconscious delivers fairly cool stuff that corresponds with its fluff. This is more than CPsi does at three times the price.

[true_shinken]

Some of them are. Look at the Illithid class. Read it very carefully. Notice something? Yes, the main class feature of that one's mechanically unusable. Woo.
I'm not saying Complete Psi is not bad (it is), but one broken class does not make a book bad per se.



The Zerth is basically taking an awesome fluff tibdit and giving it mechanics that do very little on average, and then restricting them to only doing anything once per day and twiddle their fingers the rest of the day while their partners actually get to use their abilities.
Actually, I've seenit work rather finewith action points.



I may prefer Untapped potential, but at least Hyperconscious delivers fairly cool stuff that corresponds with its fluff. This is more than CPsi does at three times the price.
As I said, considering price, it is fine. I don't feel robbed or anything. It's just not 'omfg awesome' as I was led to believe.

[Psyren]

Which is basically 3.0 psionics combat updated. I don't find it that much unique. But for the price, I believe you are right.

3.0 Psionics combat needed an update. I always found it odd that two rival psions would just start flinging energy bolts and chairs at each other like two common sorcerers. Mindscape battle is a way to set psionics apart, without completely breaking it like 3.0 did.


I'm not saying Complete Psi is not bad (it is), but one broken class does not make a book bad per se.

No, horrible fluff (psionic classes that can fall?! WTF?) no much-needed fix for the soulknife (thanks UTP!) two pathetic classes (Lurk could have been so much better, Divine Mind... just no) and extremely weak PrCs do that.

Also, how exactly do Illithid Heritage feats even work?


Actually, I've seenit work rather finewith action points.

ZC is an improvement on the monk, sure. That's not really saying much. Especially when even Fist of Zuoken can beat them up and take their lunch money, never mind Tashalatora.



As I said, considering price, it is fine. I don't feel robbed or anything. It's just not 'omfg awesome' as I was led to believe.

I still disagree. I can think of many worse things that I've spent $11 on.

[Quietus]

I still disagree. I can think of many worse things that I've spent $11 on.

I don't think Shinken is complaining about spending money on it, just noting that the HYPE the book is given doesn't quite match up with what's actually delivered. I get the impression, however, that he's got no issue with the value for his money.

[hamishspence]

No, horrible fluff (psionic classes that can fall?! WTF?) no much-needed fix for the soulknife (thanks UTP!) two pathetic classes (Lurk could have been so much better, Divine Mind... just no) and extremely weak PrCs do that.

Also, how exactly do Illithid Heritage feats even work?

Slaves had illithid biological material implanted in them, and escaped. Something (magical radiation?) causes the material to start taking over the slave or their descendant- represented by taking these feats.

[Psyren]

I'm not sure what "hype" the book has received to result in that kind of reaction. Personally, I don't think it's been advertised enough.

Untapped Potential is certainly better... but most of that is available free on the DSP SRD (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/home) anyway, so we might as well promote the one that isn't.


Something (magical radiation?)

:smalltongue:

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Also, at times it feels they haven't done their homework with 3.5 psionics... which this is supposed to update their old material to! They say psi-like abilities 'can't be augmented'... wait, what? They are auto-augmented depended on HD!

That's the point--they're already augmented to max, you can't do anything more with them, and since they're (Ps) and not actual powers you couldn't augment them even if they weren't already. I can see why they put that in there, considering that augmenting PLAs and spending more points than your ML are two areas where people new to psionics screw up a lot.


And they have a prestige class with an ability score requirement... it says right ther ein the DMG 'don't to that, silly!'.

1) The people who said "Don't do that, silly!" are the same people who gave us CPsi. :smallamused:

2) They also said to not require levels in a specific class, yet there's the Red Wizard, a PrC that can only be entered by a specialist wizard. Rules are made to be broken, huh?

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Edit: Err, Pair'o'dice, don't read this.

Dream-based psionics is my big thing, so it was incredible to my mind. Also enjoyed its adventure more than any other I've read. I've rewritten a chunk of it, and seriously elaborated and added to it, but the basics are very cool.

Awakened Dreamer is probably my favorite PrC of all time. Ardent/Psychic Chirurgeon makes it into nearly every one of my games as well.

The monsters, while a few are stupid as heck (I'm looking at YOU mind grub collective!), are for the most part really really awesome. I've based an entire adventure around Mournwraths, and are one of my favorite monsters in D&D.

Subconscious and Unconscious powers are also friggin' sweet.

[Psyren]

My favorite PrC from the book is Colorless Adept. I always felt that MotAO's hook - sharing spells across the world - would fit psionics much better since every psion was already hooked into the astral plane. Unlike MotAO, the payment is made in real time, so you never have to worry about "Spelldebt." There are also no membership fees - the Colorless Lodge gains as much out of having you in it as they give.

Mechanically, you don't lose any ML until level 5, before which point you are already able to borrow powers up to 6th-level. So you can dip into the class for 4 levels to share powers up to 6th and lose nothing. If you do want to progress to 9th-level power sharing, you can dip out of the class at 7 and only lose one ML. This is a small price to pay for having powers like True Metabolism, Urge Extermination or Stygian Veil, that you might not otherwise use powers known on, at your fingertips.