evil in good party: excuses?

[randomhero00]

Any go to excuses yall have? Like, planting a dagger and saying "that guy attacked me.":smallamused:
Or how about, "I had to for the greater good." That's a classic.
"I didn't realize he was friendly"
"These undead followed me home, I have no idea how they got here!" (ok that one is more of a joke) :smallbiggrin:
After being gone in the middle of the night, "I *complicated religion mumbo jumbo* requires a ritual of cleansing...the blood? Uh that was from a pig."
"He had a slave, he was clearly evil and about to enslave us!" After killing a friendly dude.
"Sorry, I went through a war as a child and have post tramatic stress disorder, sometimes I can't control myself."
"My familiar told me too!"
*after becoming a lich* "I sacrificed my body for the good of the party! I swear!"

So let's hear your real ones and funny ones. Bonus points if you've actually used them in game!

[gbprime]

Scenario...

PC's standing in burning village. They fought this Gnoll warleader previously, showed him mercy, and let him go. Well... he came back with more raiders and killed more villagers by the time the PC's caught up with him again. Gnoll warleader is on his knees in front of the cleric again, weapons on the ground.

"Same deal as last time?" he asks.

"No," says my LE fighter, and delivers a big enough blow to cleave the gnoll's skull open. He turns to look at the troubled bard and cleric.

"Here's the part where I say I told you so. You should have let me do that LAST time."

Then I got to spend the next hour or so riding down fleeing gnolls and putting arrows in their backs. It was a good day for being bad. :smallamused:

[Psyx]

You missed the classic:

"I'm NOT evil - I'm Chaotic Neutral!"

[druid91]

"What do you mean 'Don't eat him'? He's beaten ain't he?"

I hope to use this one in a bleach d20 game soon.

[Callista]

"We have a common enemy and we can fight him better if we team up."

"I'm just being efficient."

"You need to have someone to do what you can't bring yourself to do."

"Think how many lives I'm saving by pre-emptively killing them."

"Sometimes you have to make the hard choices."

(Lawful Evil FTW.)

[Lev]

"We have a common enemy and we can fight him better if we team up."

"I'm just being efficient."

"You need to have someone to do what you can't bring yourself to do."

"Think how many lives I'm saving by pre-emptively killing them."

"Sometimes you have to make the hard choices."

(Lawful Evil FTW.)

Or

http://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/lex-luthor-picture.jpg

[Psyren]

Being a Hellbred.

"Why yes, I am an Exalted Necromancer. Why do you ask?"

[Sipex]

"I'm sorry but I needed to kill something and I thought you'd appreciate if it wasn't you."

[oxybe]

"what? so i broke his fingers... that is the appropriate punishment for theft, right? wait... a finger?" (Shump, on law enforcement)

"just put me and him your deepest, darkest, basement and ignore the sounds that might come out of it... i'll get the information out of him" (Shump, on "gather information")

"for the Xth time.... i said it was an accident." (oh how often this was said)

"KABOOM! Mwahahahahahahah! what? it was funny seeing them scamper!" (while storming a group of enemies which may or may not have non-combatants. actually, probably once per session, really.)

"sure, blame it on the guy who's invisible most of the time..." (oddly enough, i wasn't the one to blame when stuff went missing from the party)

"so what if he's a lich? he has information we want at the cost that we perform a service for him. at least he's being honest with us." (Shump, on friendship)

"Fool! I know not the power i wield... wanna help me test :smallbiggrin: ?" (Shump, on human and demi-human experimentation)

"Monkey made me do it." (Shump, on passing the buck to his pet monkey)

"The voices in my head made me do it" (Shump, on pleading insanity)

"I did it" (Shump, on collateral damage)

[Sindri]

"You all saw it! That orphanage attacked me!"

I had a player once who was a necromancer...in a party with 2 paladins. He manages to cover the evil auras, made the undead look like constructs, and Bluff them into thinking he was an artificer.

[RipperOfShirts]

"Hold on, you've just been murdering your way along the east coast of this continent, and now I want to stop for a second to make them useful after the fact and you're taking offense? Unless these random band of thugs are somehow different from the couple hundred you're killed and left lying around in the wilderness? Perhaps you planned on giving them a proper funeral, with a proper burial and a memorial service?

No, you were just going to leave them lying around rotting. Well excuse me if I'm not as wasteful as the rest of you."

CE Cleric Necromancer in a party of Goods and Neutrals. They knew I was evil, but allowed me to join up under the 'common enemy' and 'we need a healer' rules of life. I agreed because adventurers pile up the corpses for you no questions asked, which as a Necromancer you really come to appreciate. We just hit Level 5, so I got Animate Dead and wanted to take it for a spin.

[Avilan the Grey]

So let's hear your real ones and funny ones. Bonus points if you've actually used them in game!

I don't really need those. Since the few times I have played Evil I have never played Stupid Evil.

[oxybe]

my character was hardly "stupid evil". he knew exactly what he was doing:

he worked for the city, did the jobs they don't want to do, all because he grabbed the title of "adventurer" (which surprisingly has the same "break and enter, murder & theft" job description as "well-armed, murderous, sociopathic hobo").

he was their attack dog and a necessary evil, a destructive cannon that could be pointed towards a good cause and he took action (and every so often, responsibility) when the good people could or didn't want to.

evil doesn't mean stupid. i means being selfish to the point where it can be harmful to others.

or in Shump's case, a well-armed, murderous, sociopathic hobo with a good PR strategy.

[MachFarcon]

I'm just removing all of the bad people in the world.

We're here to save the world. The guards were in our way to save said world.

Honestly, I can bluff you into thinking I'm a paladin. (Did that)

[blackjack217]

They're statues! you know they are going to animate and attack us. (holy relics that are statues)
It's a gazebo (self explanitory)
He had the plague!! (killing plague victims)
He did not register on my detect good he must be a demon!! (npc "paladin")
I'm a paladin of tyranny/blackgaurd!!
He did not register on my detect good he must be a demon!! (High priest [lying])

"They're not undead they're deathless" (nat 20 bluff check)
"whats a deathless?" (sense motive nat 1)

[AstralFire]

Being evil in a good party, regardless of alignment, mostly requires being smart enough to believe in enlightened self-interest. Do evil only when you can get away with it, and stick to good or neutral when it serves you best. Lawful Evil has the easy road, of course, since you just have to convince someone to sign a contract with ya - but it's possible for all of them.

And the Warlock in NWN2 is perhaps the best example ever of Neutral Evil in a good-aligned party.

[blackjack217]

And the Warlock in NWN2 is perhaps the best example ever of Neutral Evil in a good-aligned party.

until the infamous RFED indecent

[Morquard]

Being evil in a good party, regardless of alignment, mostly requires being smart enough to believe in enlightened self-interest. Do evil only when you can get away with it, and stick to good or neutral when it serves you best. Lawful Evil has the easy road, of course, since you just have to convince someone to sign a contract with ya - but it's possible for all of them.
Why would signing a contract make it easier for the LE guy?

[Dr.Epic]

Not a great excuse, barely an at all excuse, but my first character ever once killed a man for one gold piece that was lying on the ground that said NPC got to first, but I claimed he stole.

[AstralFire]

until the infamous RFED indecent

RFED?


Why would signing a contract make it easier for the LE guy?

What I mean is, the LE guy can emphasize how -law-abiding- they are. This inherently rates someone less of an immediate threat if they're willing to parley. The CE guy has to fight against his nature as well as the fact that he will ping on both detect chaos and detect evil, but CE that's smart can get away with it too.

[onthetown]

"If I kill them first, I'm making it less likely that you die in combat against them. I'm just risking my life for the party."

"I'm not slaving them -- they just work for slightly less than minimum wage, and then there are taxes and fees to take off of that..." I guess the character that's speaking owns a retail store or something.

[hotel_papa]

Saving the world isn't a battle of good versus evil. It is a battle of those who would survive against those who would annihilate all life. Your motives and morals mean nothing compared to your results.

Also? This is Eberron.

[Psyren]

RFED?


I assume it stands for Rocks Fall Everyone Dies

[Zhalath]

"They owe me money. I'm making sure they collect."

"I'm maintaining karma neutrality by being around good deeds, so I can undo them."

"Well, being the good guy in the evil party kind of sucked, so I decided to switch it up."

"Hey, it's a few less people trying to kill me."

"Hey, nobody's kill stealing! More for me!"

"Somebody's got to be the voice of reason."

[Ormur]

I have an evil character among my players, only he has never actually done anything evil enough compared to the CN party members to warrant an excuse. He mainly just quietly rolls his eyes at the non-violent favoured soul and her unicorn cohort before shooting the enemy with poisoned arrows.

His outlook and undefined acts prior to joining the party must be why he's evil.

[Coidzor]

Nothing can top "You all saw it! That orphanage attacked me!" So I don't even bother.

And really, if you're going to patronize your fellow players, at least succeed in being humorous.

[grimbold]

me intelligence be 6 thank you very much-Gronk a Barbarian

[Aux-Ash]

Not so much of a excuse perhaps:

"I'm not going to make any excuses. I'm a brigand, a cutthroat, a bastard, a dog and whatever other fancy name you may come up with. But I won't let anyone else burn down my house and I don't bite the hand that feeds me.
I don't care what you think of me and I care even less about what you think of how I handle things. All that matters is that I'm going to do the job you need me to do and I'm going to do it properly. Anything else is, quite frankly, none of your business."

[hamishspence]

What about

"Oh, he's not with us. He just happens to be going in the same direction".

This might be a way around the "non-association" rule- since if you won't attack the evil character (because he hasn't done anything you consider evil enough to deserve being attacked for) you can't really stop him going the same direction as you.

[FelixG]

"Remember, good and evil are just two sides to the same coin, if you kill me you will be killing part of yourself." (talking to a paladin who wanted to kill for the sake of the detect-o-dar)

"Prove I was the one who murdered that beggar!" (necromancer who shows up with a new skeleton after a beggar spat on his shoe)

[Clovis]

Me evil? Nah, I'm out to save the world...
Had a CE elf character in a group of LG, LN and CN characters. He claimed to come from an obscure elven tribe no-one's heard of -- and the rest of the party never bothered to investigate. The elf even wore a leather helmet lined with lead to prevent ESP/thought reading...
After many atrocities and questionable acts (the usual 'gather information' by torture, decapitation of prisoners etc) it sometimes came to blows with fellow party members. Once the CN dwarf and my CE elf actually split from them 'goody-two-shoes' to adventure on our own. The DM railroaded us back to the fold by having lots of monsters to attack us... while the healbot was with the rest of the party :amused:

[Frenchy147]

After repeatedly stabbing a friendly PC: "Sorry, My hand slipped"

After going on a killing spree in the town square:"Sorry, I had a 'nam flashback"

Also, whenever the Lawful Stupid paladin casts detect evil, I hold up my lead sheet. "It's a common practice among my people. Half-Elves of my village carry lead sheets to prove our manhood."
Paladin:"If you would kindly put it down for one-"
Me:"Stop opressing my culture!"

Me and the paladin in our party were the only ones who watched OOTS and we actually roleplayed this out. Needless to say, we ended up showing the rest of the party the comic :smallbiggrin:

[Rasman]

"Sometimes, you have to do what is necessary, SIR Paladin. While you view burning that entire village down as a HORRIBLE act, let ME ask YOU something. What would you have done if *INSERT TERRIBLE DISEASE* had spread and infected the next town, and then the next...and then the next? Could you have healed them before they turned? COULD YOU HAVE SAVED THEM?!

...

Your silence speaks volumes. Dare say I'M the evil one! You...you were willing to let them SUFFER! Next time, show them the respect THEY deserve as living, breathing beings and end it mercifully, coward."

Little does the Paladin know that the Neutral Cleric dabbles in Necromancy and comes back to raise the villagers at night as Skeletons to bolster his army and that HE in fact spread the disease though a Contagion spell.

:smallamused:

Works every time on the Lawful Stupid.

[hamishspence]

"Sometimes, you have to do what is necessary, SIR Paladin. While you view burning that entire village down as a HORRIBLE act, let ME ask YOU something. What would you have done if *INSERT TERRIBLE DISEASE* had spread and infected the next town, and then the next...and then the next? Could you have healed them before they turned? COULD YOU HAVE SAVED THEM?!

There's a Lawful Good paladin-centric order (The Order of Illumination, in Complete Adventurer, with Shadowbane Inquisitors as one of the PRCs available) that takes almost exactly the same attitude.

Not to disease, but to "the taint of Evil" - especially with fiends:


Along with their comrades, (as members of the order call themselves) the shadowbane stalkers, inquisitors find and confront evil wherever it hides. Unlike shadowbane stalkers, however, inquisitors purge evil rather than finding it. Their relentless zeal and their overwhelming belief in their own righteousness allow shadowbane inquisitors to root out evil cleanly, even if it costs the lives of a few good creatures, without the moral doubt that other knights might feel. The Order of Illumination expounds that it is better to sacrifice a village that hides a powerful demon than it is to risk letting the demon escape or the evil spread. Although inquisitors remain devoted to the cause of good, this conviction allows them to use their abilities against enemies regardless of their alignment.

That said- they are a bit prone to having members fall all the way to Evil but still believe they are completely pure.

[Rasman]

There's a Lawful Good paladin-centric order (The Order of Illumination, in Complete Adventurer, with Shadowbane Inquisitors as one of the PRCs available) that takes almost exactly the same attitude.

Not to disease, but to "the taint of Evil" - especially with fiends:



That said- they are a bit prone to having members fall all the way to Evil but still believe they are completely pure.

huh...I NEVER knew...

sounds like...Illuminati to me...the pun is surely intended by the book writers...

Thanks for the heads up...it's an EVEN BETTER cover now...

[hamishspence]

The PRCs are designed for rogue/paladin (or rogue/cleric) multiclass, and require those who take them to be LG.

However, if you fall, you retain all your PRC powers (but can't advance.

Plus, they stack with paladin levels, for determining what blackguard abilities you get if you go blackguard.

And I suspect they did intend the name this way.

The fact that these are the darkest of the dark when it comes to paladins, and approach Inquisitors from Warhammer or Warhammer 40K for pragmatism about innocent losses when fighting Evil, is all the more ironic.

They're called the Order of Illumination- and favour white armour- but their abilities suit striking from the shadows.

[Logalmier]

Evil? What evil? I certainly didn't see any evil. Because I think that if there was any evil going on I'd know about it. But there's no evil, as far as I can see. At least I don't see it. So I'm guessing there's no evil. Well, I mean no EVIL evil. I mean it's not like anything really really bad evil is going on, is there? I mean compared to the evil that COULD be happening, I don't think there's anything that could be justified as 'evil.' I mean, not that I can tell. See guys, there's no evil...

[BobVosh]

Aren't those shadowbane classes used for Pelor, THE BURNING HATE! (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor_the_Burning_Hate)?

Also Pelor TBH is a good example of how to play evil and fool everyone :D

That said most of my evil characters did very subtle evil, so never really needed to hide it from the party. They tend to not think through the ramifications are thoroughly as I do. Many a fun reminder note has been passed to the DM.

[hamishspence]

Aren't those shadowbane classes used for Pelor, THE BURNING HATE! (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor_the_Burning_Hate)?

Nope- they're devoted to various lawful and/or good deities- and tend to merge the teachings into one "Destroy Evil" dogma.

[AstralFire]

The burning hate joke has gotten so old...

[TheGeckoKing]

"I'm a Cleric of [Evil Diety]! If my god deems it good, then by [Same evil diety] it IS good! Who the Nine Hells are you to argue against a GOD's will!"

I got alot of mileage outta that one, I tell ya.

[Choco]

I am playing an evil character in a good party right now, and it is working out just fine. He's got the same basic goals as everyone else in the party, so there hasn't been a problem yet. Now, Chaotic Stupid characters in ANY party on the other hand, that always causes problems...

[John Campbell]

Excuses are for the weak. Making excuses is an admission that what you did is wrong. You can get a whole lot farther with just acting as if your actions were the self-evidently correct thing to do.

Last session, I talked our cleric, priestess of a Chaotic Good deity, into participating in ritual cannibalism according to my tribal customs. I just acted as if eating the heart of a defeated enemy was the obviously right thing to do, and insisted that she had to eat first because she was the one who killed the enemy.

It helps if you actually have reasons and aren't just doing Eeeeeevil things because your alignment box says you're Eeeeeeevil.

Paladins won't let you get away with this, because they've all been thoroughly indoctrinated into believing that their way is the One True Way. So always be prepared to defend yourself against their unprovoked aggression by killing them quickly. It'll earn you points with the rest of the party... no one likes paladins except the people who play them.

[hamishspence]

So always be prepared to defend yourself against their unprovoked aggression by killing them quickly. It'll earn you points with the rest of the party... no one likes paladins except the people who play them.

I think this overstates things slightly- I'm pretty sure there are some people who don't play paladins who like them anyway. Maybe because, played well, they're staunch allies.

The only thing that specifies what a paladin should do when they come across something objectionable is:

"punish those who harm or threaten innocents" from the PHB.

It does not say "punish those who commit evil acts" or "destroy those who are evil-aligned".

[An Enemy Spy]

Scenario...

PC's standing in burning village. They fought this Gnoll warleader previously, showed him mercy, and let him go. Well... he came back with more raiders and killed more villagers by the time the PC's caught up with him again. Gnoll warleader is on his knees in front of the cleric again, weapons on the ground.

"Same deal as last time?" he asks.

"No," says my LE fighter, and delivers a big enough blow to cleave the gnoll's skull open. He turns to look at the troubled bard and cleric.

"Here's the part where I say I told you so. You should have let me do that LAST time."

Then I got to spend the next hour or so riding down fleeing gnolls and putting arrows in their backs. It was a good day for being bad. :smallamused:

That's not bad. Were your friends seriously just gonna let him go free so he could murder more villagers? That's more evil than just killing him.

[hamishspence]

That's not bad. Were your friends seriously just gonna let him go free so he could murder more villagers? That's more evil than just killing him.

Letting someone go free on a "we've shown you mercy- so prove you deserved it by never acting that way again" may be a little naive- but it's not evil.

Especially if you make some effort to ensure it- like a geas spell or something of that kind, questioning under detect lie, a mark of justice, etc.

[Callista]

Depends, yeah. They really should've been smart enough to geas the fellow.

I really hope you guys are just posting these to be funny, though, because some of them wouldn't hold up, and you'd end up losing your character unless everybody else in the party had 2 Wisdom and no ranks in sense motive. You want to play evil in a good party? If you want to last any length of time, you can't kick puppies with your friends watching. You have to subtly sneak out while the party is asleep and poison the puppy's food instead, then cry when your friends find the body, because the poor thing has obviously died of some horrible puppy disease.

[An Enemy Spy]

Letting someone go free on a "we've shown you mercy- so prove you deserved it by never acting that way again" may be a little naive- but it's not evil.

Especially if you make some effort to ensure it- like a geas spell or something of that kind, questioning under detect lie, a mark of justice, etc.

But letting someone go who has already proven themselves to be both untrustworthy and dangerous will only result in evil done by them. Evil which you should have known would happen but allowed anyway.

[hamishspence]

But letting someone go who has already proven themselves to be both untrustworthy and dangerous will only result in evil done by them. Evil which you should have known would happen but allowed anyway.

Going by the description, at the time, he might have proven himself dangerous by "being a gnoll bandit" but hadn't proven himself untrustworthy.

They showed him mercy- once. He went on to prove himself untrustworthy by continuing banditry. So they killed him.

"No second chances for any bandit" may be a shade too harsh for Good alignment. Mercy is considered a virtue in BoED- which warns against characters losing sight of this and becoming merciless.

which is not to say they should have let him go the first time round without taking some kind of precaution (extracting a promise, under a detect lie, maybe with a Mark of Justice to help enforce it, might have been better).

But being merciful wasn't "a wrong thing to do".

[An Enemy Spy]

Not the first time. But after he had already gone back on his word, doing the same thing twice would be the height of naivety and and possibly even stupidity.

[blackjack217]

The BoED sometimes goes a bit overboard but that is good advice. Also:
"But her name is Eludecia!" (Found with a succubus)
"He is so evil he damned the god he worshiped and fought his own father to the death!!" (yes this is an excuse, and a slanted one)

[hamishspence]

Not the first time. But after he had already gone back on his word, doing the same thing twice would be the height of naivety and and possibly even stupidity.

True. At the very least, such a character would be dragged back for trial and execution (if the PCs aren't allowed to judge and sentence characters in this setting.)

Even if the Judge was a believer in redemption, they'd insist on massive precautions to enforce it.

[An Enemy Spy]

Sometimes it's fun just to be evil. Look out for number one and be prepared to sacrifice anyone in your way to glory, totally guilt free.

[An Enemy Spy]

True. At the very least, such a character would be dragged back for trial and execution (if the PCs aren't allowed to judge and sentence characters in this setting.

Yes probably. But I think the proper authorities wouldn't bat an eyelash over the death of a murderous gnoll bandit. They probably have a reward for anyone who returns with his head. And anyway, this is more of a law/chaos matter than a good/evil one.

[hamishspence]

This gets lampshaded in Zogonia, where the heroes catch an orc after he's poisoned a well- he agrees to surrender if they take him prisoner- the evil rogue character says yes, then promptly tries to kill him when he drops his weapon.

The rest of the party insist on taking him to the nearest town for trial, despite the rogue's protests "We all saw him do it!"

When they get to town though, the response from the local authorities is "A trial? For an orc? Just bash his brains out."

[An Enemy Spy]

This gets lampshaded in Zogonia, where the heroes catch an orc after he's poisoned a well- he agrees to surrender if they take him prisoner- the evil rogue character says yes, then promptly tries to kill him when he drops his weapon.

The rest of the party insist on taking him to the nearest town for trial, despite the rogue's protests "We all saw him do it!"

When they get to town though, the response from the local authorities is "A trial? For an orc? Just bash his brains out."

That's funny.

[hamishspence]

Kev the Rogue, in the Zogonia strips in Dragon, is more the pragmatic kind of Evil character.

Galena (in Mount Zogon in Dungeon) is a druid who is all the way to sociopathic- and a big fan of fungi and oozes.

[An Enemy Spy]

On a completely unrelated note, who would win? A marut or a fiery shark with a bazooka?

[The Glyphstone]

The marut would take the bazooka and use the shark as a mount.

[An Enemy Spy]

The marut would take the bazooka and use the shark as a mount.

Lies! You're out of line! This whole thread is out of line!

[Cheesy74]

"You knew what you were getting into when you hired me instead of killing me."

To be fair, my guy wasn't really a sadistic sociopath, he was just a jerk.

[rubycona]

I'm not a perfect example in this... my character is Chaotic Good... in theory. She's absolutely dedicated to her own ideal of good, but isn't particularly wise, and is willing to do literally anything in pursuit of that ideal.

"If you think we can actually change the world, overthrow the social and political order, and ensure freedom and equality for all, without ever sacrificing an innocent life, you are a fool. There will be blood, death, and destruction. There will be orphans and widows, disease and starvation, and much of it by my hand. Our wake may be full of blood and screams, but if we make it... if we don't let that stop us... then when we get to the other side, we can usher in a new era of peace."

Not exactly Evil, but dubiously good at best, and she's tortured, murdered, attempted assassinations, in her pursuit of her goals.

[boomwolf]

Huh...
I have an evil drow in a recent party, I get the slide from just being too scary to confront.
Naturally I don't go TOO far with my evil, but as long I generally do more good then bad, they rather let me slide then face me as a foe. (I AM capable of dishing massive damage if I turn against them...being a battle sorcerer and all...not top optimization, but we got a VoP monk there too, so you can figure that's not the problem...)

and yes, I actually get away bing CE by being scary in a party of a VoP monk, CG cleric of pelor, LN knight (buffed version) and a NG scout.

[Callista]

I'm not a perfect example in this... my character is Chaotic Good... in theory. She's absolutely dedicated to her own ideal of good, but isn't particularly wise, and is willing to do literally anything in pursuit of that ideal.

"If you think we can actually change the world, overthrow the social and political order, and ensure freedom and equality for all, without ever sacrificing an innocent life, you are a fool. There will be blood, death, and destruction. There will be orphans and widows, disease and starvation, and much of it by my hand. Our wake may be full of blood and screams, but if we make it... if we don't let that stop us... then when we get to the other side, we can usher in a new era of peace."

Not exactly Evil, but dubiously good at best, and she's tortured, murdered, attempted assassinations, in her pursuit of her goals.Hmm... you sure this is a CG character? I can only see that being the case if the world is so messed up that the character is constantly choosing between two bad things without a workable third option--for example, choosing to declare war on a dangerous enemy while knowing that if you don't declare war, they'll kill everybody; but the war will still kill lots of people even if you win.

If it's anything less dire than that, shouldn't the character be neutral or evil? It's not a punishment to change your alignment, you know. Alignment's just a label for what the character is, not a straitjacket. And evil characters can have good goals. Actually, this kind of character sounds like a rather well-done Evil, depending on just what other choices there were; and there's precious little of that around.

[John Campbell]

Hmm... you sure this is a CG character? I can only see that being the case if the world is so messed up that the character is constantly choosing between two bad things without a workable third option--for example, choosing to declare war on a dangerous enemy while knowing that if you don't declare war, they'll kill everybody; but the war will still kill lots of people even if you win.

If it's anything less dire than that, shouldn't the character be neutral or evil? It's not a punishment to change your alignment, you know. Alignment's just a label for what the character is, not a straitjacket. And evil characters can have good goals. Actually, this kind of character sounds like a rather well-done Evil, depending on just what other choices there were; and there's precious little of that around.

I'd say, "Probably good, not naïve, and living in a vaguely realistic world." Sometimes you've gotta fight. When you fight, people die. Not all of them deserve it. Not even all of the "bad guys".

And, seriously, this is D&D. It's fully expected that the good guys are going to be using violence to solve their problems to a greater or lesser degree. It sounds to me like this character is just being honest with herself about the consequences of that, rather than sweeping it under the rug and pretending it's okay because some of the guys on the other team ping on the paladin's IFF.

The only thing I have any issue at all with is the torture, and even that might make it through my filters if used only at direst need. (Though it'd have to be pretty dire, especially because D&D provides less morally questionable and more effective methods of extracting information.)

[Callista]

Yes, the torture is the thing that made me wonder, mainly. It's not uncommon for good people to be forced into battle; but when it comes to a prisoner who can't defend himself, it gets really iffy. Especially in a world where you have the equivalent of a perfect truth serum with Zone of Truth and Charm Person.

[rubycona]

I adore roleplaying grey morality issues, hence this character. I chose the personality first, and then decided to call her Chaotic Good because she is truly dedicated to the ultimate greater good, and would gladly sacrifice her own life to that end... and would also sacrifice other things, just about anything, to that end. I'm not using Chaotic Good as a straightjacket, not at all. I'm just playing her character, and whatever alignment she's labeled with, I'm fine with. In fact, I'd be tickled pink if the DM decided to have her ding Evil... what sort of roleplay opportunities might that bring, to believe you are fighting for Good in the world, and Magic itself damns you Evil? But we've decided to call her Good because that's what she's fighting for.

The torture was, in her opinion, necessary. Someone was doing necromantic experiments, and she caught that person... she learned that he was under orders to begin the creation of an undead army. She absolutely, imperatively required the knowledge of who was trying to create an undead army, so she could move to stop them. At the time, she was only level 3, had no magic items available, and very, very little time. It's a pretty low-level game world, at the moment.

[Grelna the Blue]

Excerpted from a necromancer's long letter to her PC party in the Frealms:

Rachel, you seem to believe me a calculating, conscienceless creature and Nina a heartless monster past all chance of salvation. If not, then I feel I have valid reason for complaint in your manner of speaking to me and to her as you have so often done. You have lately expressed your completely understandable disinclination to die yet again (I DO sympathize, truly) and your wish therefore to abandon forever the miserable environs of Vaasa to its denizens. But although I will not attempt to directly challenge your perceptions of Nina or of me—I will ask you to reflect for just a moment on your own past actions and how they reflect upon you in our eyes. You have many times risked the well-being of the group or members of it through your incessant provocation of powerful miscreants you seek out for no other purpose than (so far as we could tell) your own amusement. No doubt you consider that justifiable—perhaps your actions had value hidden to us at the time—and it is my guess you probably see yourself as a hero battling evil. In fact, reading this you may have already dismissed my complaint as the views of a coldhearted dabbler in dark necromancy, worthless and beneath notice.

[...]

But like you, Nina and I are living breathing women, not stones to sharpen your dulled conscience upon. I put it to you that willfully angering evildoers does nothing to reform them. Scorpions are vengeful and indiscriminate – for the good of all they should be crushed or they should be left alone.

[...]

So, now that Nina’s child is safe, let us come to an amicable end to our long association before your unfounded and growing suspicions lead to unpleasantness between us. Henceforth, you may wander Faerun with consciences unburdened by the thought that you must bear with a vile, evil, black-souled Southern wizardess. I am sure you will soon find another doughty companion more to your liking, although I would caution you not to set your standards too high, lest you find that others can judge you as well.