PDA

View Full Version : Wow, I really, REALLY cannot believe I'm asking this but...



AustontheGreat1
2010-11-21, 06:24 AM
Okay. Let me just start by saying that this is not for me but for a girlfriend of a best-friend. My friend has finally convinced her to try out DnD for the first time. He was pretty excited about it...

...and then she tole him what she wanted to play.

A "Twilight Vampire". With sparkles and everything.

I was wondering how I might go about building that for her.

Trust me, I hate Twilight as much as the next human being (though I'm actually proud to admit that unlike most I actually know what I hate, actually having read the books.), but I value my friend and his girlfriend more than my own dignity so I want to help him.

Now I'm expecting to get numerous negative comments, but just don't post anything if it isn't at least a little constructive. Trust me, I already know...

Boci
2010-11-21, 06:27 AM
Does it really need to have a mechanical affect? IIRC, the intensity of the light varied from blinding to just noticable. If its the former, then it needs some mechanics, if its the latter than apart from being noticable (+2 to diplomacy, -2 to disguise) it doesn't really need any mechanics. As for the vampire race, well first she needs to decide what her special ability is, since thats the big deciding factor. Edward for example would be most suited with a mindspy (hopefully tweaked so that it doesn't suck), and Alice could be the same concept along with the prophetic dream ability from Heroes of Horror, swhilst Jaspar could be the intimidation based fighter from Champion of Valor.

Yora
2010-11-21, 06:28 AM
Like with every game, I strongly recomment making characters that fit with the setting and the party.
Without knowing anything about the campaign, there's not much help we could give.

Elans sparkle, but I assume the Twilight Vampires have some other abilities as well.

Runestar
2010-11-21, 06:30 AM
I am not familiar with the abilities a twillight vampire would possess, save that they aren't adversely affected by light. Would the half-vampire template from libris mortis suffice?

BridgeCity
2010-11-21, 06:30 AM
I have no idea if this would really work because I haven't looked at the mechanics, but what about some sort of fey template applied to a vampire? That possibly gives you the, lets face it, incredibly pansy feel that twilight vampires have.

As a side note, how do the rest of your gaming group feel about this? As anyone on here will tell you, copying directly from a source that other a large number of people hate with a passion is a bad idea - just try running a game with a Cloud or Sephiroth inspired character and you'll see what I mean.

If your other players are completely fine with it (either due to not caring, respecting the player etc.) then thats cool, but personally it would really ruin a game for me to have a twilight-based vampire in the party.

Yora
2010-11-21, 06:32 AM
Looking up what abilities twilight vampires have, I'd say make an elan wilder or psychic warrior.

With LA +8, actual vampires are just unplayable for first time players.

AustontheGreat1
2010-11-21, 06:47 AM
The abilities Twilight Vampires would possess are

1) Super Strength in the extreme (throwing large boulder's, large trees, etc)
2) Super Speed
3) Almost complete invulnerability
4) and most likely a unique psionic ability

They don't have any of the magical powers or other supernatural abilities associated with classic vampires. I personally would not use the vampire template to build it.

Elan is actually a really good idea. Maybe psionic warrior, though that kind of psionic power isn't really fitting with the flavor. Twilight flavor that is.

The group is fine with it. It will be me, friend, friend's girlfriend, and DM and we all have pretty open minds.

Lastly, I would just like to say, thank you all for being so cool. I was expecting much worse. I mean it, thanks.

Spiryt
2010-11-21, 06:52 AM
3) Almost complete invulnerability

Well, players are fine with it?

It's not that D&D characters are very mortal, but they're definitely not very invulnerable.

Boci
2010-11-21, 06:53 AM
Psionic warrior would fit best, that way she can have her unique psionic ability and all her other powers are just her vampire heritage at work. Just one note:


Almost complete invulnerability

This one arguably isn't really important, since compared to a commoner, any adventure above a certain level is this.

Amiel
2010-11-21, 06:55 AM
What may make this idea more palatable to the other players is a continuous aura of healing, more or less due to "sparkly-ness".

BridgeCity
2010-11-21, 07:00 AM
The group is fine with it. It will be me, friend, friend's girlfriend, and DM and we all have pretty open minds.


That's good to hear.

I haven't read all the twilight books but have you considered the wilder psionic class? Tones down the psychic ability a bit from psion, and has a neat sort of angry-rage cast ability that feels (to me at least) like it could be a vampire giving in and losing its composure just a bit?

Again, I haven't read all the books so I don't know if that is very fitting for twilight vampires.



Lastly, I would just like to say, thank you all for being so cool. I was expecting much worse. I mean it, thanks.

You are welcome. It really saddens me to see how many comments in threads are people just getting at the OP or being rude and unconstructive for no reason.

AustontheGreat1
2010-11-21, 07:07 AM
Okay, thanks everybody. I think what I'm going to suggest to them is a half vampire elan, and I'll just let them decide on a class. If my friend doesn't manage to talk her out of it.

kestrel404
2010-11-21, 07:09 AM
Elan Swordsage/Psychic Warrior/Some Prc that advances both psionics and martial maneuvers (perhaps a variant Jade Phoenix Mage?)

Zaq
2010-11-21, 07:35 AM
Nitpick: Elans don't sparkle. Maenads, from the same source, sparkle.

druid91
2010-11-21, 07:53 AM
Nitpick: Elans don't sparkle. Maenads, from the same source, sparkle.

Thank you. If an elan is sparkling it means they are about to disintegrate you for impertinence you whippersnapper.:smalltongue:

As for twilight vampires, Why not hijack the DR feat from bleach d20? That and hidden talent(Possibly modified) along with some Barbarian/fighter. Or if fighter is unpalatable warblade. Or you could just do some homebrew and graft something like the hollows hierro progression on the fighter so she has some inherent damage reduction.

Roderick_BR
2010-11-21, 08:09 AM
I assume the best thing to do it actually tell her that in this game, you guys play adventurers like in the Lord of the Rings, and vampires, any kind, are usually not allowed for players, except some advanced sessions, and it would be better if she played a few games as just human (elf, dwarf, etc) first, to understand the rules well.

Seriously, I really dislike people that want to start up a game they never played with over the top thing. Learn to walk before running, people.

Lev
2010-11-21, 08:19 AM
What's the level cap?

Sounds like a celestial bloodline vampire to me.

the Riddler
2010-11-21, 08:23 AM
Okay. Let me just start by saying that this is not for me but for a girlfriend of a best-friend. My friend has finally convinced her to try out DnD for the first time. He was pretty excited about it...

...and then she tole him what she wanted to play.

A "Twilight Vampire". With sparkles and everything.



"So you want to play a Twilight Vampire? Here, have my Vampire: the Masquerade rulebook, go for either Brujah or Toreador. Sparkles? Let me check, did you take the Common Sense merit? No? Well then, sure, by all means, do try going out in the sun."

...That's pretty much what I'd go for if anyone ever asked me something like that, girlfriends-of-best-friends included :tongue:

dsmiles
2010-11-21, 08:41 AM
That horrible abomination of all that is vampiric could be a deathless with the nimbus of light feat (both from BoED). :smallyuk:

Maryring
2010-11-21, 08:54 AM
Why how dare you suggest that someone wants to play a Twilight Vampire, even worse admitting to read it. You yattayattayattayatta.

Now, with that out of the way, if you're going the psychic warrior route, I suggest the powers.

1st level
Biofeedback
Bite of the Wolf
Burst
Catfall
Thicken Skin
Vigor

2nd level
Animal Affinity
Body adjustment

3rd level
Claws of the vampire
Dimension slide
Evade burst
Vampiric blade

4th level
Dimension door psionic
Immovability
Inertia Barrier

5th level
Psychofeedback

Reflavour a few of them, such as the teleporting into being superspeed and you should be good to go I'd say. Good luck.

Flickerdart
2010-11-21, 08:59 AM
Can Elans be half-vampire? IIRC it's humanoid or monstrous humanoid only, and Elans are aberrations.

Starbuck_II
2010-11-21, 09:58 AM
The only race in D&D that sparkles is the Maenad.

So a 1/2 vampire Maenad or full should work.

Darrin
2010-11-21, 10:11 AM
The only race in D&D that sparkles is the Maenad.

So a 1/2 vampire Maenad or full should work.

The half-vampire template is only LA +2 (Libris Mortis), and is a little easier to deal with from a balance perspective. Might be easier to sell her on the half-vampire, telling her that a full vampire would be too powerful compared to the other players. Tell her she can work up to becoming a full vampire as part of her character story, and she gets to roleplay that out as the campaign progresses. Introduce a vampire NPC as her "sire"/mentor, who tells her she has to prove she's worthy of becoming a full vampire. That gives you a little bit of a carrot/stick, he can give her certain tasks to perform (to move the plot along) or get all angstified if she goes too far off the rails.

Dalek-K
2010-11-21, 10:26 AM
If you want the "sparkle" effect then have the character "cursed" with faerie fire the whole time. Make it so the character thinks its a class feature and not a curse and there you go.

As for actual class.... You might be better off making your own rather than basing it off something already out there

Grommen
2010-11-21, 11:01 AM
Okay. Let me just start by saying that this is not for me but for a girlfriend of a best-friend. My friend has finally convinced her to try out DnD for the first time. He was pretty excited about it...

...and then she tole him what she wanted to play.

A "Twilight Vampire". With sparkles and everything.

I was wondering how I might go about building that for her.

Trust me, I hate Twilight as much as the next human being (though I'm actually proud to admit that unlike most I actually know what I hate, actually having read the books.), but I value my friend and his girlfriend more than my own dignity so I want to help him.

Now I'm expecting to get numerous negative comments, but just don't post anything if it isn't at least a little constructive. Trust me, I already know...

I got nutten for ya bro. Just wanted to say your a better DM than I. Cause I would have allowed the character to sparkle, and then went about beating the sparkles out of the character first adventure :smallbiggrin:

Hopefully it all goes well. DIM HOOOOOOOO!

Psyren
2010-11-21, 12:45 PM
Elans sparkle, but I assume the Twilight Vampires have some other abilities as well.

I think you mean Maenads.

Actually, that's not a bad place to start.

opticalshadow
2010-11-21, 03:15 PM
well if a player asked me if they could make a twilight vamp id ask them if they mind closing the door on their way out. if you wanted a butt easy way of doing it, just let them sparkle and have all the penalties associated with that, poor hide ability, poor disquise ability etc.

as far as otehr abilities go? i wouldnt personally do anythign for them, when your trying to make a complicated character (of which a half vamp is already fast becoming) you need to know how to play the game, and adding extra effects from a movie isnt helping. for example, how do all the churches who are lawfully or chaoticlly good going to feel about vampires? what about the partys cleric? you dont just get to say, "its ok guys im a good vampire" there going to have to have a good explination for every encounter that someone finds out their half vampire, and sparkeling is going to make it obvious somethings off.

Warlawk
2010-11-21, 03:17 PM
The sparkle is a purely visual effect. There's no need to represent it by anything within the game.

Best approach would be to let her know that vampires are too powerful to fit into the game. She will be a young vamp or something, weaker than those she is used to reading. Be sure she understands that right out of the gates so she isn't expecting to be as powerful as the ones she has been reading about. Depending if she wants a fighter type or mage type pick one of the psionic classes and just reflavor the abilities. They are not psychic powers so much as just calling on her vampiric heritage. Offensive/defensive precognition could be calling on speed as well as picking up surface thoughts, that sort of thing.

The race mechanics do not have to match the race name. A key point most people forget. Take an elan, deduct one from the racial PP bonus and suddenly you have a vampire who never needs to eat and can call upon vampiric heritage to shrug off an attack.

true_shinken
2010-11-21, 04:09 PM
The sparkle is a purely visual effect. There's no need to represent it by anything within the game.
Actually, it is a disadvantage. No being invisible under an open sky could kill you.

TwilightVampire: 'OK, I'm invisible'
EnemyCleric: 'Daylight. Now you are not.'

You could perhaps do it as a flaw?




The race mechanics do not have to match the race name. A key point most people forget. Take an elan, deduct one from the racial PP bonus and suddenly you have a vampire who never needs to eat and can call upon vampiric heritage to shrug off an attack.
If it does not drink blood, then it's not a vampire is it?

Dr.Epic
2010-11-21, 04:37 PM
You could just tell them no: you don't feel like it, you hate Twilight, and there's already a vampire template. Yeah, I know this isn't constructive, but still you could always just say go with the vampire template. I mean it sounds like you don't want to do this and just telling them to go with the vampire template minus the who sun kills you thing is the best choice.

opticalshadow
2010-11-21, 04:44 PM
as above and as i posted, is not just mearly a visual effect with no game change, it has alot of game change, there should be penalties to sparkleing.

and if she geos vamp she should have to deal with what the game has, not altering it to fit what she wants. she either needs a vampire or half vampire templet both of which have their ups and downs, but even half vamp is a LA+2.

this is the problem i have with my players playing anythign they saw in a movie or read about, every ranger wants to be drizzt, and every vampire wants all of the good and none of the bad. if i were you again, i would not let her play a vamp at all, if she is new she needs to know how to play the game before playing somethign so complicated.

Glimbur
2010-11-21, 04:44 PM
1) Super Strength in the extreme (throwing large boulder's, large trees, etc)
2) Super Speed
3) Almost complete invulnerability
4) and most likely a unique psionic ability


You can get 1) and 3) from the Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) template. The bonus natural armor and the DR 8/adamantine together mean that to commoners you seem invulnerable. Earth Strike and +2 Str make you stronger. What really made me think of this template, though, is the sample picture. That devil is covered in stone spikes... just cover the character in quartz or something instead so they sparkle in the sunlight.

Then take care of 2) and 4) and the rest of 1) via class levels. Shame about the hit to mental stats.

Psyren
2010-11-21, 04:50 PM
Actually, it is a disadvantage. No being invisible under an open sky could kill you.

TwilightVampire: 'OK, I'm invisible'
EnemyCleric: 'Daylight. Now you are not.'

You could perhaps do it as a flaw?

There is game precedent for purely visual/sensory effects that have no mechanical consequence. Many of the Binder's Signs fall under this, as well as the Celestial Mystic's capstone.


If it does not drink blood, then it's not a vampire is it?

There are vampires that drain youth or energy without actually drinking blood, e.g. the Moroii from Romanian myth, recently given a modern update (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/220.html) in M:TG's Ravnica expansion.

opticalshadow
2010-11-21, 04:58 PM
There is game precedent for purely visual/sensory effects that have no mechanical consequence. Many of the Binder's Signs fall under this, as well as the Celestial Mystic's capstone.



There are vampires that drain youth or energy without actually drinking blood, e.g. the Moroii from Romanian myth, recently given a modern update (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/220.html) in M:TG's Ravnica expansion.

1) true, but there are other sensory effects that have disadvantages aswell, how are we defining sparkle in this manner?

2)Blood Drain – If pinning an opponent, the vampire can make a
bite attack that does 1d4 Constitution damage each round &
the vampire gains 5 temporary hp each round. If you do not
drain at least 1 Constitution point of Blood each day from a
living creature, you are Fatigued (FortNeg, DC 15 + number
of days since you last drunk). If you still do not drink, you
become Exhausted (FortNeg, DC 20 + number of days since
you last drunk). Drinking blood removes the Fatigue –or–
reduces Exhaustion to Fatigue.

thats dnd vampires (and from the half templete at that) and were playing dnd, if you want to be a vampire in dnd you should be a dnd vampire, which come with other abilities and a +2 LA, not to mention the player still needs to be able to be a vampire and not get attacked, as they are loreically in dnd, not the type of guy who wanders around town dringing rats to death.

true_shinken
2010-11-21, 04:59 PM
There is game precedent for purely visual/sensory effects that have no mechanical consequence. Many of the Binder's Signs fall under this, as well as the Celestial Mystic's capstone.
But if you're trying to make a twilight vampire, having one of his disadvantages as an actual disadvantage would make sense.
Just handwaving away something that can be easily done within the rules seems completely unnecessary to me. It spoils my suspension of disbelief when suddenly glowing like a searchlight whenever you are exposed to direct sunlight has no in-game effect, but maybe that's just me.


There are vampires that drain youth or energy without actually drinking blood, e.g. the Moroii from Romanian myth, recently given a modern update (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/220.html) in M:TG's Ravnica expansion.
That's not what the player wants, though. A twilight vampire drinks blood.

Psyren
2010-11-21, 05:04 PM
Don't shoot the messenger guys :smalltongue: I'm all for Twilight vamps getting penalties. I was merely pointing out the precedent.

olelia
2010-11-21, 05:26 PM
1) true, but there are other sensory effects that have disadvantages aswell, how are we defining sparkle in this manner?

2)Blood Drain – If pinning an opponent, the vampire can make a
bite attack that does 1d4 Constitution damage each round &
the vampire gains 5 temporary hp each round. If you do not
drain at least 1 Constitution point of Blood each day from a
living creature, you are Fatigued (FortNeg, DC 15 + number
of days since you last drunk). If you still do not drink, you
become Exhausted (FortNeg, DC 20 + number of days since
you last drunk). Drinking blood removes the Fatigue –or–
reduces Exhaustion to Fatigue.

thats dnd vampires (and from the half templete at that) and were playing dnd, if you want to be a vampire in dnd you should be a dnd vampire, which come with other abilities and a +2 LA, not to mention the player still needs to be able to be a vampire and not get attacked, as they are loreically in dnd, not the type of guy who wanders around town dringing rats to death.

Not even close :smallsigh:. Plenty of D&D players refluff monsters. Taking a vampire and changing it into age draining isn't crazy. I think that hardest part is taking all of the twilight vampire properties and make sure you don't over shadow the other players. If its a higher level game then you run into the inverse effect of being too wimpy due to how racial hitdie and LA adjustment works.

true_shinken
2010-11-21, 05:30 PM
Not even close :smallsigh:. Plenty of D&D players refluff monsters. Taking a vampire and changing it into age draining isn't crazy. I think that hardest part is taking all of the twilight vampire properties and make sure you don't over shadow the other players. If its a higher level game then you run into the inverse effect of being too wimpy due to how racial hitdie and LA adjustment works.

A twilight vampire is just fast, strong and tough. That's basically every high level D&D melee character. I can't see how it would overshadow anyone.
Btw, maenad half-vampire psychic warrior seems like the best fit, IMHO.

Weasel of Doom
2010-11-21, 05:58 PM
I don't know why so many people are getting upset or saying that she shouldn't be able to play this. Isn't d&d about having fun? If playing a twilight vampire would be fun for her and the rest of the party is fine with it, what's the problem?

That said, I'd want to avoid using the vampire or half-vampire templates because twilight vampires don't have a lot of the weakness or many of the supernatural powers that d&d vampires have. I'd probably just get her to play an elan (resilience seems to fit the invulnerability aspect), change type to undead rather than aberration and tell her to go wilder. Psychic warrior has a lot more powers which doesn't seem to fit a twilight vampire. Fluff any teleportation powers as superspeed like has been said.

As far as the invulnerability goes, either say she's a young vampire or something who hasn't yet got full control over her powers or explain that while vampires seemed invulverable in the books this was because they weren't up against dragons, demons and giants. A high-level character will appear invulnerable to the sort of enemies they fought in the books (mostly commoners, right?) but dragons etc are rather more powerful than those.

I don't know how brightly Twilight vampires sparkle but surely just saying she sparkles and giving her -2 to hide, disguise and anything else appropriate would be enough. It's a penalty with no real bonus but it also doesn't affect her in combat so it probably won't make regret being a vampire.

oh and blood drinking could also just be fluff (maybe with a penalty if she doesn't do it enough). She doesn't know that the standard d&d rules for blood-draining involve con damage so you can just say that the after she drains blood the enemy appears light-headed and a bit paler, no need for actual rules. If you wants to drain someone to death then just say they're dead because if they're helpless enough that she can drain enough blood to kill them then it would probably be just as easy to coup de grace.

true_shinken
2010-11-21, 06:02 PM
That said, I'd want to avoid using the vampire or half-vampire templates because twilight vampires don't have a lot of the weakness or many of the supernatural powers that d&d vampires have.
That's why people are saying half-vampire. You just get the thirst for blood.

Calmar
2010-11-21, 06:03 PM
Even with the best possible mechanical representation, as long as the campaign is not going to be similar to the books/movies in atmosphere and plot, I strongly doubt the girl will have much fun with her "Twilight-vampire"...

Back in my day... (http://www.meh.ro/original/2010_04/meh.ro4016.jpg)

opticalshadow
2010-11-21, 06:05 PM
Not even close :smallsigh:. Plenty of D&D players refluff monsters. Taking a vampire and changing it into age draining isn't crazy. I think that hardest part is taking all of the twilight vampire properties and make sure you don't over shadow the other players. If its a higher level game then you run into the inverse effect of being too wimpy due to how racial hitdie and LA adjustment works.

but the thing is its not just about the blood drinking, its an entire templete you want to remake, if you want a fast strong champion play a monk or a barb and you win. but if they want to be a vampire, then they should be a dnd vampire, creating a hombrew race sure works, but its a spit in the face. why not just have all the pcs make their own races with positives and no negitives as far as we can until the dm says no. it doesnt take much work for a lvl 1 character to become invincable, hell we can all make pun pun without altering anything just with a skill change.

this thread asked my opinion on what i would do, thats what i did, if they want to play a vampire use the templete that exsists with all the things that go with it.

Safety Sword
2010-11-21, 06:08 PM
I think what you really need is a cleric that can turn girlfriends. :smallamused:

Fisticuffs
2010-11-21, 06:18 PM
I don't have the book handy but there's a 'shiny' humanoid in Sandstorm and, like everyone and their grandmother have said, the Half-Vampire template in Libris Mortum. Also Psychic Warrior sounds like the best idea to me.


There are vampires that drain youth or energy without actually drinking blood, e.g. the Moroii from Romanian myth, recently given a modern update (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/220.html) in M:TG's Ravnica expansion.
Also Crovax Windgrace. (http://magiccards.info/gvl/en/50.html)

Daremonai
2010-11-21, 06:22 PM
but the thing is its not just about the blood drinking, its an entire templete you want to remake, if you want a fast strong champion play a monk or a barb and you win. but if they want to be a vampire, then they should be a dnd vampire, creating a hombrew race sure works, but its a spit in the face. why not just have all the pcs make their own races with positives and no negitives as far as we can until the dm says no. it doesnt take much work for a lvl 1 character to become invincable, hell we can all make pun pun without altering anything just with a skill change.

this thread asked my opinion on what i would do, thats what i did, if they want to play a vampire use the templete that exsists with all the things that go with it.

It's not an entire template being remade. The question isn't "How can I be a vampire but alter everything to fit Twilight", it's "A player wants to do the same things as a Twilight vampire - tell me what reflects this mechanically and I'll let her call it a vampire".

I haven't read the books (I've been avoiding them, in fact) but there seems to be a lot of support for the psion/psywar Elan/Maenad options, so I'd imagine that they at least get close to answering the relevant question. Miko didn't have levels in samurai, this "vampire" doesn't need to have the vampire template.

Gametime
2010-11-21, 06:34 PM
Actually, it is a disadvantage. No being invisible under an open sky could kill you.

TwilightVampire: 'OK, I'm invisible'
EnemyCleric: 'Daylight. Now you are not.'

You could perhaps do it as a flaw?



The sparkling is supposed to be the refraction of light off their "diamond-like" skin; since Invisibility seems like it would involve curving light around the person anyway, I don't think the sparkling would be a problem once you've already gotten rid of the normal effects of light on people.

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about the actual physics of light. The above may be completely out of whack. (Then again, so is the in-book explanation for the sparkling, so bogus justifications for why invisibility could still work aren't without precedent.)

The real disadvantage is that EVERYONE will notice you unless you cover yourself constantly. There's a reason the Twilight vampires hang around cloudy towns.



Then take care of 2) and 4) and the rest of 1) via class levels. Shame about the hit to mental stats.

Some people would argue that the hit to mental stats makes the character even closer to the vampires in the books. :smalltongue:

olelia
2010-11-21, 06:35 PM
I was wondering how I might go about building that for her.

Now I'm expecting to get numerous negative comments, but just don't post anything if it isn't at least a little constructive. Trust me, I already know...




this thread asked my opinion on what i would do, thats what i did, if they want to play a vampire use the templete that exsists with all the things that go with it.

Well...actually the OP asked how to do build it. Not why it can't be a D&D vampire.

Coidzor
2010-11-21, 06:37 PM
More important, probably, would be the concerns in how to appropriately balance the game between the disruptive potential of someone immature enough to want to play twilight without realizing that the game is probably not going to be twilight if it has men in it and avoiding bloodshed and burned down houses/bridges.

Katana_Geldar
2010-11-21, 06:38 PM
The main problem is that Twilight vampires (whom most vampire fans consider not real vampires) don't have any vulnerabilities. These guys are basically going to be gods and you need some disadvantage to have it balanced. Probably a HUGE one as they're basically demi-gods.

Try and explain that to her, as D&D is NOT Twilight.

ARGH! Ninjaed!

Tvtyrant
2010-11-21, 06:48 PM
I don't know why so many people are getting upset or saying that she shouldn't be able to play this. Isn't d&d about having fun? If playing a twilight vampire would be fun for her and the rest of the party is fine with it, what's the problem?


Like 1 person said that. 90% of posts have just been about how to make it work.

Personally I would take an elf (for the longevity) add blood craving (have to make an easy will save when around bleeding people, only needed once per day) as a new flaw, give them sparkling as a feat that adds +2 to charisma based skills when in sunlight, and call it good. Half the game is spent underground anyway, the sparkles aren't going to do anything.

For the power thing... Unarmed Swordsage or a cleric#/monk2 that doesn't wear armor and uses selfbuffing. She is new to the game, she isn't going to break it.

Tengu_temp
2010-11-21, 06:53 PM
I'd advise against any races or templates with LA. Those are confusing enough for a newbie already, and make it hard to balance the character with the rest of the team.

I recall that there was a set of rules somewhere on WotC's site that let you start a lot of races and templates at LA 0, and then instead of getting class levels as you level up choose to get more and more of their racial abilities and bonuses instead. Wasn't vampire among them?

Coidzor
2010-11-21, 07:29 PM
I'd advise against any races or templates with LA. Those are confusing enough for a newbie already, and make it hard to balance the character with the rest of the team.

I recall that there was a set of rules somewhere on WotC's site that let you start a lot of races and templates at LA 0, and then instead of getting class levels as you level up choose to get more and more of their racial abilities and bonuses instead. Wasn't vampire among them?

Savage progressions (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a)


Level CR Special
1 +0 Con -2, blood drain (lesser), resistances (lesser), spawn slavery, spider climb, vampire bonus feats (Alertness, Dodge)
2 +0 Str +2, blood drain (moderate), fortification (light), vampire bonus feats (Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes), vampire skills +2
3 +1 Cha +2, Dex +2, coffin sanctuary (lesser), dominate (lesser), gaseous form (lesser), resistances (greater), slam
4 +1 Str +2, alternate form (lesser), blood drain (greater), dominate (moderate), natural armor +2, vampire aversions, vampire skills +4
5 +1 Wis +2, children of the night (lesser), coffin sanctuary (greater) , damage reduction 5/silver and magic, dominate (greater), fortification (moderate), gaseous form (moderate), sunlight & water vulnerability (lesser)
6 +2 Int +2, Str +2, fast healing 1, natural armor +2, vampire skills +6
7 +2 Dex +2, children of the night (greater), create spawn (lesser), dominate (superior), energy drain (lesser), gaseous form (greater), sunlight & water vulnerability (greater), undeath, vampire bonus feat (Combat Reflexes)
8 +2 Cha +2, alternate form (greater), create spawn (greater), damage reduction 10/silver and magic, energy drain (greater), fast healing 5, natural armor +2, turn resistance +4, vampire skills +8

I doubt this particular one is the route to take for this player though.

The idea, however, has its merit.

Gametime
2010-11-21, 07:29 PM
The main problem is that Twilight vampires (whom most vampire fans consider not real vampires) don't have any vulnerabilities. These guys are basically going to be gods and you need some disadvantage to have it balanced. Probably a HUGE one as they're basically demi-gods.

Try and explain that to her, as D&D is NOT Twilight.

ARGH! Ninjaed!

Twilight vampires aren't even close to godly. It's been said before in this thread: what makes Twilight vampires special is super speed, super strength, and some individual specialty. To a normal person, they're untouchable, but that's true of any moderately-leveled D&D hero. They can still be killed by other supernatural beings (such as werewolves, which are also only special by virtue of being really strong and tough).

Nothing a Twilight vampire can do is particularly impressive next to a high level combatant, and they can't even begin to compete with spellcasters.

Cerlis
2010-11-21, 07:36 PM
Dont the makers of the game in the first book say something along the lines of

"There is no reason anyone cant be what they want". Any LA/CR/Template issues is simply because they had to make some creatures powerful and wanted to make rules to make different versions of those monsters.

So hell all you'd have to do is figure out how to take vampire abilities and tone em down to be LA+0 or +1 or something

And there is no reason to assume she wants to mary sue, shes just going into a fantasy setting and loves the idea of playing a Intellectual charismatic monster*

I assume you may have already started (and indeed i just wanted to post while i had all my comments sorted out and will amend this post if need be)

but tell her that you can give her that, but so she doesnt steal the show or be to powerful (For balance and fairness sake :) ) tell her that her version's powers are going going to be limited by her psi ability. In other words:
Psychic Warrior Maenads (and you just have to use the class and race as a template. there is no reason to say, for instance, that a power is from her class , or that she doesnt sparkle all the time)
Sparkle
Regenerate
Increase their strength
Increase their speed
Increase their cognitive ability
Jump hi
and use some more Cliche "Psychic" powers.

In fact, since a psychic warrior is limited you might try, increasing her psi pool a few points in exchange for removing a few powers available that are non Twilighty (Beguilers get full casting and spontanious casting from their whole list just because they cant shoot fireballs and the like, so i think its a fair trade) and maybe pick one of the Psion schools as their "power"

to many people are blinded by Edward's realistic Emo attitude and dont focus ont he fact that Twilight vampires are as monsterous as others, or more. Group of tourists slaughtered in the other room anyone? Tearing each others heads off, ripping them to pieces and lighting them on fire anyone

Gavinfoxx
2010-11-21, 08:21 PM
I think there's a flaw that's sparkling somewhere..

No, wait, that was Haunted, from Dragon 327, it was for strange noises in your vicinity, not strange lights and stuff...

Fortuna
2010-11-21, 08:32 PM
Similar enough to call it precedent IMHO.

Anterean
2010-11-21, 08:45 PM
Okay. Let me just start by saying that this is not for me but for a girlfriend of a best-friend. My friend has finally convinced her to try out DnD for the first time. He was pretty excited about it...

...and then she told him what she wanted to play.

A "Twilight Vampire". With sparkles and everything.



I really, really, really hope that I am wrong about this, but for some reason I get this vibe :

"Okay, so he clearly won´t take no for answer on this, so how do I make sure he never asks me again ?"

erikun
2010-11-21, 08:55 PM
I've heard that Twilight Vampires are about as much a vampire as a fae creature. The Leanan sídhe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leanan_s%C3%ADdhe) comes to mind as a type of vampiric fairy folk, and the obviously sexual similarities stand out as well. You might want to point out the similarities if your friend (friend's girlfriend) might be interested.

As for races/classes, the Maenad Psychic Warrior makes the most sense. Twilight Vampires are noteworthy for being strong, fast, tough, charming, reading minds, and blood sucking. And sparkling in the sunlight. The first three are easily done with the Psychic Warrior's powers, or just high level and stats. The next two can be replicated through powers like Psionic Charm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/charmPsionic.htm) and Read Thoughts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/readThoughts.htm), and you could simply add them to the Psychic Warrior's powers list if you aren't overly concerned about balance. (This doesn't sound like a power gamer, after all.) For that matter, having a Faerie Fire-like ability that is triggered in direct sunlight might be an equal drawback.

Not sure how well the half-vampire template replicates blood sucking. If nothing else, you could just give her character a blood drain racial attack.

Psyren
2010-11-21, 09:01 PM
Psywars can be vampiric without templates too.

Claws of the Vampire
Vampiric Blade
Strength of my Enemy
Ectoplasmic Form
Psychic Vampire
Stygian Touch (CPsi)

Plus mundane stuff like Hustle and Detect Hostile Intent to replicate the vampish speed and mind-reading.

I think being a pure Maenad Psywar and replicating the benefits with powers will be better in the long run personally. Toss on the Consumption Mantle for kicks.

randomhero00
2010-11-21, 09:57 PM
I would actually just use a monk with VoP for the mechanics. And then give her a flaw/trait that gave her +diplomacy -disguise (for sparkling.) And of course refluff VoP a little and be a little more lenient on what she can carry. Boom, stupid sparkly vamp.

Warlawk
2010-11-21, 11:50 PM
Here's what I don't get... the correlation between sparkling and +diplomacy.

Some guy with a sparkly halo who is clearly not a being from the higher planes is pretty likely to make me suspicious of some sort of magical effect that may be trying to influence, and make me really cautious of anything he may suggest. It would kind of have the opposite of a diplomacy bonus...

Just because many things that have a sparkly glowing halo of light on them get a +diplo doesn't mean that it's the sparkles that are giving the +diplo.

Tvtyrant
2010-11-22, 01:01 AM
Here's what I don't get... the correlation between sparkling and +diplomacy.

Some guy with a sparkly halo who is clearly not a being from the higher planes is pretty likely to make me suspicious of some sort of magical effect that may be trying to influence, and make me really cautious of anything he may suggest. It would kind of have the opposite of a diplomacy bonus...

Just because many things that have a sparkly glowing halo of light on them get a +diplo doesn't mean that it's the sparkles that are giving the +diplo.

How exactly are they "clearly not from a high plane(s)..."? If a guy came up to me, was freakishly attractive and sparkling I would assume supernatural. And its not that the sparkles give +charisma, its that the vampires get lots of charisma bonuses based on their supernatural looks, which you have to account for somehow.

Warlawk
2010-11-22, 01:18 AM
How exactly are they "clearly not from a high plane(s)..."? If a guy came up to me, was freakishly attractive and sparkling I would assume supernatural. And its not that the sparkles give +charisma, its that the vampires get lots of charisma bonuses based on their supernatural looks, which you have to account for somehow.

Most people IRL have some idea what an angel looks like.

Most people in D&D worlds have at least a loose idea what a deva/archon/whateverServantoftheGoodGods looks like. That is what I meant by "from the higher planes".

There is a prevalent idea in this thread that Sparkling=+Diplomacy. Not sure how you could have missed that, but people are wanting to give +diplo based purely on that fact.

Fisticuffs
2010-11-22, 01:32 AM
Most people IRL have some idea what an angel looks like.
I disagree.

To answer your question it has nothing to do with the sparkles, it's their supernatural appeal, look at the Cha boast a D&D Vamp gets, they're just appropriately watering it down.

Gametime
2010-11-22, 01:55 AM
Most people IRL have some idea what an angel looks like the artistic representations of angels from the sixteenth century onward look like.



Or, put less sarcastically, people know what people think angels look like. We're a bit lacking in direct proof, but what the source material tells us is nothing like the pop-culture perception.

Whether Joe Commoner knows what a Deva looks like is questionable, given that. Your average adventurer likely has a vague idea, but if everyone knew you wouldn't need a Knowledge: The Planes check to identify outsiders.

Psyren
2010-11-22, 03:12 AM
I disagree.

To answer your question it has nothing to do with the sparkles, it's their supernatural appeal, look at the Cha boast a D&D Vamp gets, they're just appropriately watering it down.

I always thought tying Cha to attractiveness was a ridiculous concept. Kalashtar in general are supposed to be almost unearthly beautiful, and not a lick of that makes it into their stats. Meanwhile, Spellscales get a Cha boost and are butt-ugly if you ask me.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2010-11-22, 03:54 AM
I'd be inclined to ask the girl what parts of the concept she actually wants to focus on... I mean, does she just want to play with a sparkly, unassuming superhero? Or is she actually interested in RPing as someone who was, at some point, transformed into a unsettling, semi-monstrous, not-quite-undead hemovore? Maybe she'd rather make the character come into the powers and/or creepiness some other way, to avoid having to create a weird underground society around it? Or is dealing with a secret ancestral society the whole point?

Even within those categories, she might be looking to exploit some particularly fun aspects above others, in which case it would be okay to drop some stuff that she hardly even associates with the idea.

Warlawk
2010-11-22, 05:45 AM
An amazing display of being deliberately obtuse in this thread.

In this thread, there are multiple references to "sparkles" giving -hide and +diplomacy. Most give no reference to charisma, attractiveness or anything else. Sparkles=+diplo which makes no sense.

EDIT:Sorry, guess there was only one direct reference to +diplo and one to +cha based checks. Both citing the fact that the PC sparkles as the reason for the bonus. Just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me why someone who sparkles in sunlight is supposed to be more charismatic. If it's tied to the other aspects of the character, great... say so, but saying BONUS FOR BEING SPARKLY just doesn't add up.

true_shinken
2010-11-22, 07:17 AM
I think being a pure Maenad Psywar and replicating the benefits with powers will be better in the long run personally. Toss on the Consumption Mantle for kicks.
But then you don't duplicate the penalties. I believe if she wants to play a vampire, shw wants to play one that needs blood, not one that happens to drink blood.




EDIT:Sorry, guess there was only one direct reference to +diplo and one to +cha based checks. Both citing the fact that the PC sparkles as the reason for the bonus. Just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me why someone who sparkles in sunlight is supposed to be more charismatic. If it's tied to the other aspects of the character, great... say so, but saying BONUS FOR BEING SPARKLY just doesn't add up.
You probably misunderstood. There are few instances of 'sparkling' in D&D. One of those is the Nimbus of Light feat, where your body shines in a way that makes it obvious you are divine/a saint/Exalted (think of the Touched by An Angel 'hey look I'm an angel' once-per-episode reveal). The mechanical effect is bonus to a few Cha based skills. What you read was someone refering to this feat.

Psyren
2010-11-22, 09:02 AM
But then you don't duplicate the penalties. I believe if she wants to play a vampire, shw wants to play one that needs blood, not one that happens to drink blood.

Twilight vampires have penalties? I thought they just went around looking bishounen all day. :smalltongue:

AtwasAwamps
2010-11-22, 09:58 AM
"Okay, so he clearly won´t take no for answer on this, so how do I make sure he never asks me again ?"

You beat me to it. Note that the following are labeled as Factoids because I totally lack any support for these beyond presumption.

Factoid 1: There is a rampant hatred of Twilight in the Geek World. Your friend, as a Dungeons & Dragons player, is a geek, and if his girlfriend is aware he is a geek, she is aware of this.

Factoid 2: His girlfriend is most likely aware of his negative opinion of the sparkly vampire series

Factoid 3: From the sound of it, he has been bugging her about this for a long time.

Factoid 4: Taken with above Factoids, girlfriend is not necessarily buying into hobby…she is attempting to make him realize that involving her in said hobby is not the best way to further the relationship.

Solution to Problem: Make it backfire
→Explanation of Solution: Let’s face it, D&D is fun. If you let yourself get into it, there’s not much better than the visceral feelings that the game can give you. It’s like gambling without monetary costs, video games without eyestrain, reading with social aspects…there’s a lot of good stuff here. So give her the works.

Template up a sparkly vampire. Coordinate with your DM to create badass moment after badass moment for your party. Be 110% awesome all the time. Blow her mind with the awesomeness…but you and your friend do it with standard D&D options. Pick exotic stuff. Don’t be a fighter, be a DRAGONBORN fighter, laying waste to opponents with your breath weapon or swooping down on heads with wings…or heck, be a Raptoran Dragonborn and do both! Be a beguiler beguiler, cause its funny! Pixie Warlock! Housecat swashbuckler! DO IT. Show her the awesome inherent in the system itself, show her the awesome in the game itself, and then there’s a good chance she’ll look at her custom sparkle-motion vampire twit race and go “…Huh. We can do better.”

true_shinken
2010-11-22, 10:03 AM
Twilight vampires have penalties? I thought they just went around looking bishounen all day. :smalltongue:

You'd be surprised. The craving for blood is the major plot hook for book 2, even. I'm not a fan of Twilight, but just saying bad stuff about something you don't seem to have ever read does not look very nice to me.

Psyren
2010-11-22, 10:28 AM
You'd be surprised. The craving for blood is the major plot hook for book 2, even. I'm not a fan of Twilight, but just saying bad stuff about something you don't seem to have ever read does not look very nice to me.

"Bad stuff?" Last I checked, being bishounen (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=529&defl=en&q=define:Bishounen&sa=X&ei=nIvqTKHgN8KqlAfMvtX9Cw&ved=0CBMQkAE) was a good thing. :smallconfused:

And I'm sure any Twilight fans with an internet connection have pretty thick skins by now anyway.

Fax Celestis
2010-11-22, 10:35 AM
Elans sparkle, but I assume the Twilight Vampires have some other abilities as well.

That's Maenads, not Elans.

I'd suggest just going with a maenad psychic warrior who happens to just feed on blood rather than food.

Psyren
2010-11-22, 10:43 AM
Maenad Wilder works well also (Cha focus, same BAB.) Splash Battle Dancer or Monk with Ascetic Mage to get the unarmed prowess.

true_shinken
2010-11-22, 11:48 AM
"Bad stuff?" Last I checked, being bishounen (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=529&defl=en&q=define:Bishounen&sa=X&ei=nIvqTKHgN8KqlAfMvtX9Cw&ved=0CBMQkAE) was a good thing. :smallconfused:

And I'm sure any Twilight fans with an internet connection have pretty thick skins by now anyway.

'being bishounen all day' is hardly a compliment to anyone, meaning you are nothing but your appearance. Also, 'everyone is doing it' is not an excuse to be agressive or engage in prejudice.

Psyren
2010-11-22, 11:57 AM
'being bishounen all day' is hardly a compliment to anyone, meaning you are nothing but your appearance. Also, 'everyone is doing it' is not an excuse to be agressive or engage in prejudice.

If you try hard enough you can take offense at anything I suppose, but I was just poking fun at the franchise.
At any rate, if you have further issue with what I wrote, feel free to PM me about it so we can stop derailing the thread.

true_shinken
2010-11-22, 12:00 PM
If you try hard enough you can take offense at anything I suppose, but I was just poking fun at the franchise.
That was simply my point. No need to derail it anymore now that you'd admited.

Fan
2010-11-22, 12:06 PM
'being bishounen all day' is hardly a compliment to anyone, meaning you are nothing but your appearance. Also, 'everyone is doing it' is not an excuse to be agressive or engage in prejudice.

I take offense to this comment. Being Bishounen does not mean being nothing but your appearance, but merely being beautiful in excess of the standard definition for.. well.. ever.

You can be beautiful and not be a total personality lacking prude. (See: 100% of GITP women.:smallwink:)

Psyren
2010-11-22, 12:09 PM
That was simply my point. No need to derail it anymore now that you'd admited.

Yon white knight withdraweth? Forsooth! :smallwink:

(as my tone may not be coming through text very well, I'm jesting.)

true_shinken
2010-11-22, 12:12 PM
I take offense to this comment. Being Bishounen does not mean being nothing but your appearance, but merely being beautiful in excess of the standard definition for.. well.. ever.
Of course you are correct.
I just meant that when you say 'you just hang around being beautiful all day' you are not compliment someone on their beauty, you are saying beauty is all they have.

Tael
2010-11-22, 12:31 PM
I may have missed it, but what level is the party?

Also, just homebrew it.

grimbold
2010-11-22, 02:21 PM
Okay. Let me just start by saying that this is not for me but for a girlfriend of a best-friend. My friend has finally convinced her to try out DnD for the first time. He was pretty excited about it...

...and then she tole him what she wanted to play.

A "Twilight Vampire". With sparkles and everything.

I was wondering how I might go about building that for her.

Trust me, I hate Twilight as much as the next human being (though I'm actually proud to admit that unlike most I actually know what I hate, actually having read the books.), but I value my friend and his girlfriend more than my own dignity so I want to help him.

Now I'm expecting to get numerous negative comments, but just don't post anything if it isn't at least a little constructive. Trust me, I already know...

i feel very sorry for you

the sparkles could be a non-mechanical trait that simply makes your character more recognizable and easier to be caught as a vampire.
i would recommend simply a vampire template with a non mechanical sparkly bit

Otherworld Odd
2010-11-22, 04:29 PM
Like with every game, I strongly recomment making characters that fit with the setting and the party.
Without knowing anything about the campaign, there's not much help we could give.

Elans sparkle, but I assume the Twilight Vampires have some other abilities as well.

Whaaaat? Elans sparkle? Oh gawd, I'll never look at my psion the same way again. T_T. And I thought he was a complete bad-a**.

Fax Celestis
2010-11-22, 04:35 PM
Whaaaat? Elans sparkle? Oh gawd, I'll never look at my psion the same way again. T_T. And I thought he was a complete bad-a**.

Again:


That's Maenads, not Elans.

:smallannoyed:

AstralFire
2010-11-22, 04:35 PM
No. It's just Maenads.

Otherworld Odd
2010-11-22, 04:36 PM
Again:



:smallannoyed:

Good. I didn't read that far, I was overwhelmed with grief.

Rainbownaga
2010-11-22, 05:01 PM
My personal opinion is to use the half vampire savage progression, but change the la to HD- you get a bit more powerful, but compared to more experienced characters and

Changes the weaknesses to

Blood dependency (see libris mortis)- Take wisdom damage each day you don't use blood drain.

Sparkles- No mechanical effect other than letting vampire hunters know that you are an inhuman monster.

Spiritual Animosity- Your mere presence can awaken spiritual creatures whose sole existance is your demise.

TechnOkami
2010-11-22, 06:59 PM
My GM's ruling due to Twilight is that any and all vampires must make save vs. suicide/death if they have anything sparkly on them or Glitterdust thrown at them.

Cerlis
2010-11-22, 07:17 PM
You beat me to it. Note that the following are labeled as Factoids because I totally lack any support for these beyond presumption.

Factoid 1: There is a rampant hatred of Twilight in the Geek World. Your friend, as a Dungeons & Dragons player, is a geek, and if his girlfriend is aware he is a geek, she is aware of this.

Factoid 2: His girlfriend is most likely aware of his negative opinion of the sparkly vampire series

Factoid 3: From the sound of it, he has been bugging her about this for a long time.

Factoid 4: Taken with above Factoids, girlfriend is not necessarily buying into hobby…she is attempting to make him realize that involving her in said hobby is not the best way to further the relationship.

Solution to Problem: Make it backfire
→Explanation of Solution: Let’s face it, D&D is fun. If you let yourself get into it, there’s not much better than the visceral feelings that the game can give you. It’s like gambling without monetary costs, video games without eyestrain, reading with social aspects…there’s a lot of good stuff here. So give her the works.

Template up a sparkly vampire. Coordinate with your DM to create badass moment after badass moment for your party. Be 110% awesome all the time. Blow her mind with the awesomeness…but you and your friend do it with standard D&D options. Pick exotic stuff. Don’t be a fighter, be a DRAGONBORN fighter, laying waste to opponents with your breath weapon or swooping down on heads with wings…or heck, be a Raptoran Dragonborn and do both! Be a beguiler beguiler, cause its funny! Pixie Warlock! Housecat swashbuckler! DO IT. Show her the awesome inherent in the system itself, show her the awesome in the game itself, and then there’s a good chance she’ll look at her custom sparkle-motion vampire twit race and go “…Huh. We can do better.”


Why would any fangirl who isnt part of the nerd universe realize that a large amount of nerds have a cynical horrible aversion to a story they dont even like?

"I am a geek, therefore you must know i hate pudding, and since you love pudding you must be trying to kill me." makes just as much sense as quoted analysis
------------
As O-chul would say, you think your wild conspiracy theory makes more sense than "i dont know".

Best case scenario, she likes the game and maybe next time she will want to try something different.

---------------------
Since blood draining must be done or you lose stats i see it as a neutral (not positive, pro negative, but not aversly negative) effect. Add that. Replace a strong racial bonus with DR+2 (Feats latter to increase her DR would represent her vamp. powers getting stronger and thus increasing her invulnerability). Replace a minor racial ability with Elven Altertness. No matter her alignment she reads as Strongly Evil. You might want to reduce this as simply haveing a strong magical aura if there are lots of Clerics and Paladins in this world. IE. Magic users and animals would feel uneasy around her but not know completely why.

I already suggested one way to go about it in an earlier post but just remember that in Twilight series Vampires are simply.

Evolved Humans with cells that are independant and hard as diamond/rock (which is why they sparkle IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT ONLY PEOPLE) <Which also means she doesnt need to be invulnerable. Part DR part fast healing should work too> Extremely charismatic and good looking, strong , fast creatures who require the life force of others.

Others have made good points. In the third book i think, we learn in other cultures that "Vampires" are actually Inccubi/succubi. They are their own Human mutant fey like creatures. Not undead.

Boci
2010-11-22, 07:28 PM
Why would any fangirl who isnt part of the nerd universe realize that a large amount of nerds have a cynical horrible aversion to a story they dont even like?

Most Twilight fans are aware that there is a lot of intense hatered of the franchise in almost any social group. Mostly because they have met at least one such person.

Gametime
2010-11-22, 09:31 PM
Are you saying that as a Twilight fan, or is this just something "everyone" knows?

I don't think it's safe to say "most" members of any given group know how other people feel about that group. Nor is it safe to say that everyone outside that group feels exactly one way about people in that group. Groups tend to be pretty insular, especially on the internet since you can just frequent websites filled with people who like basically the same stuff as you.

Witness, as evidence, this very thread, where a majority of the respondents have expressed a dislike for Twilight and shock at the notion that a) anyone would like Twilight, and b) anyone who does like Twilight wouldn't know that they are apparently reviled by all nerds everywhere.

AstralFire
2010-11-22, 09:38 PM
My knowledge of Twilight fans who don't intersect with the nerd intelligentsia is that they have little idea how much some members of this community revile Twilight.

(Every time someone complains Twilight ruins vampires, I have to fight the urge to smash their face into an Anne Rice book.)

true_shinken
2010-11-22, 10:22 PM
I just talked to a Twilight fan about the whole 'they are not undead' thing (which would be an extra plus to half-vampire) but it looks like they really are undead. So... do necropolitans keep their racial features?

Psyren
2010-11-22, 11:24 PM
(Every time someone complains Twilight ruins vampires, I have to fight the urge to smash their face into an Anne Rice book.)

I may just be dense, but I don't get it. (I know she wrote Interview With the Vampire but not sure what that has to do with Twilight.)


I just talked to a Twilight fan about the whole 'they are not undead' thing (which would be an extra plus to half-vampire) but it looks like they really are undead. So... do necropolitans keep their racial features?

If you mean special abilities then yes. Necropolitans keep everything except creature type, subtype, hd size (unless they were already d12s) and Con score.

Shyftir
2010-11-23, 01:24 AM
Just make a custom race, that has a strength bonus, a land speed boost and the sparkly-ness, make them immortal but not indestructible.

As a drawback, give them a drink blood every so often or become fatigued/exhausted. I'm sure this can be done and for a fairly low LA +2.

In fact, may I point out our homebrew forums and the Request a Homebrew thread?

Boci
2010-11-23, 04:21 AM
My knowledge of Twilight fans who don't intersect with the nerd intelligentsia is that they have little idea how much some members of this community revile Twilight.

My knowledge is that they know certain members of any community revile Twilight.


(Every time someone complains Twilight ruins vampires, I have to fight the urge to smash their face into an Anne Rice book.)

Wasn't popular enough. Hell the first time I heard about it was someone making the exact same point you just did. Twilight on the otherhand was a lot more noticable.


I may just be dense, but I don't get it. (I know she wrote Interview With the Vampire but not sure what that has to do with Twilight.)

My understanding is that she also wrote some modern style vampire book, which were aweful. In fact, as Astralfire once started a thread about, there isn't that much good vampire literature. Although Darren Sharn was good for its target audience (young teenagers) and Christopher Pikes "Last Vampire" was decent. My girlfriend also says the True Blood books are worth reading but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Cerlis
2010-11-23, 05:58 AM
Are you saying that as a Twilight fan, or is this just something "everyone" knows?

I don't think it's safe to say "most" members of any given group know how other people feel about that group. Nor is it safe to say that everyone outside that group feels exactly one way about people in that group. Groups tend to be pretty insular, especially on the internet since you can just frequent websites filled with people who like basically the same stuff as you.

Witness, as evidence, this very thread, where a majority of the respondents have expressed a dislike for Twilight and shock at the notion that a) anyone would like Twilight, and b) anyone who does like Twilight wouldn't know that they are apparently reviled by all nerds everywhere.

and i agree. its not good to generalize, and since someone else basically said "All/most nerds hate twilight, every/most twilight fans should know this, thus she is using knowledge of that hate for <insert strange conspiracy theory>"

I mean i dont get it. Like for instance if i where a hippie, and someone told me to not go to a biker bar because bikers dont get along with hippies very well I'd call them crazy. Then they would explain why and then i'd realize it and be all "aaah that makes sense". But there is no reason without fact or evidence, or being directly involved with such a connection that one would make that connection.

Any twilight fan probably knows there are a large amount of people who hate twilight. But everyone knows just cus you like something doesnt mean everyone does. Why would they think there is a cult following devoting any amount of their life on something they hate. But hell I dont even know why "nerds" hate it so much. But i can make a few guesses and it probably has to do with alot of stuff that a non nerd wouldnt know. Most people dont fantasize about attack rolls, monsters, gothic rooms and tragic storylines involved in good roleplay. So your random fangirl doesnt realize the "twilight" vampire tramples everything we think is badass, cool, and interesting about vampires (at least i assume that is one of the major issues)
-----------------------
Point is. Shes just a girl that likes twilight, if its balanced and she doesnt mary sue, then have fun. And i'm glad this forum has come up with so many suggestions to help.

true_shinken
2010-11-23, 08:07 AM
Wasn't popular enough. Hell the first time I heard about it was someone making the exact same point you just did. Twilight on the otherhand was a lot more noticable.

Anne Rice wasn't popular enough?!
Boci, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Anne Rice spawned Vampire the Masquerade and a blockbuster Hollywood movie, for crying out loud!
How popular is enough for you? :smallconfused:

Tael
2010-11-23, 09:05 AM
Anne Rice wasn't popular enough?!
Boci, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Anne Rice spawned Vampire the Masquerade and a blockbuster Hollywood movie, for crying out loud!
How popular is enough for you? :smallconfused:

Maybe it's because it came out in 1976? Kids these days, thinking anything older than 2000 is boring. :smallfrown: Someone should republish Interview with the Vampire, but make it look all glossy and twilight-y, and maybe we can still rescue this generation!

Boci
2010-11-23, 09:17 AM
Maybe it's because it came out in 1976? Kids these days, thinking anything older than 2000 is boring. :smallfrown:

I said I didn't know much about her, not that it was boring.


Someone should republish Interview with the Vampire, but make it look all glossy and twilight-y, and maybe we can still rescue this generation!

So everyone who hates twilight will hate IwtV? Not the best marketing strategy, although I could be underestimating the books potential popularity with the twilight crowd.


Anne Rice wasn't popular enough?!
Boci, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Anne Rice spawned Vampire the Masquerade and a blockbuster Hollywood movie, for crying out loud!
How popular is enough for you? :smallconfused:

I meant today.

Quietus
2010-11-23, 09:25 AM
You'd be surprised. The craving for blood is the major plot hook for book 2, even. I'm not a fan of Twilight, but just saying bad stuff about something you don't seem to have ever read does not look very nice to me.

Are you sure? I seem to remember book 2 being about Bella's issues with abandonment after Edward disappears, and how she latches onto Jacob, re-developing the friendship that had been on the rocks when she was with Edward.. and Jacob's subsequent issues with becoming a werewolf. Edward didn't even feature very prominently for much of the book, outside of his creepy stalker moments.


Witness, as evidence, this very thread, where a majority of the respondents have expressed a dislike for Twilight and shock at the notion that a) anyone would like Twilight, and b) anyone who does like Twilight wouldn't know that they are apparently reviled by all nerds everywhere.

Actually, this thread has been pretty accepting, all things considered. I've been impressed. Rather than a bunch of "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" responses, there's been plenty of discussion on how to actually support this in the rules. Kudos to everyone, I say!

Psyren
2010-11-23, 10:02 AM
Actually, this thread has been pretty accepting, all things considered. I've been impressed. Rather than a bunch of "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" responses, there's been plenty of discussion on how to actually support this in the rules. Kudos to everyone, I say!

The OP has displayed the required amount of disbelief and contrition at being forced to make a Twilight character - thus, we sympathize :smalltongue:

The thread would have been very different if the OP instead said "OMG Twilight is so awesome guys! How can I put Edward and Bella in D&D??"

Quietus
2010-11-23, 10:27 AM
The OP has displayed the required amount of disbelief and contrition at being forced to make a Twilight character - thus, we sympathize :smalltongue:

The thread would have been very different if the OP instead said "OMG Twilight is so awesome guys! How can I put Edward and Bella in D&D??"

.. Something just died inside of me, reading that second paragraph. I don't think I'll ever get that back. Thanks. :smallfrown:

Gametime
2010-11-23, 01:32 PM
Actually, this thread has been pretty accepting, all things considered. I've been impressed. Rather than a bunch of "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" responses, there's been plenty of discussion on how to actually support this in the rules. Kudos to everyone, I say!

There's been plenty of support for the OP, but lots of sneering at the girlfriend. There've been, what, two or three suggestions to not let her play or make her play something else? And plenty of people saying that they wouldn't let anyone who likes Twilight play in their games under any circumstances.

I'm not a fan of Twilight, and I get just as annoyed by fan-gushing about it as the next person. But I don't fly into a rage just at the mention of the work. I mean, c'mon: We play a very silly roleplaying game. We don't have a ton of room to mock others just for liking silly things themselves. :smalltongue:

leakingpen
2010-11-23, 02:14 PM
My knowledge is that they know certain members of any community revile Twilight.



Wasn't popular enough. Hell the first time I heard about it was someone making the exact same point you just did. Twilight on the otherhand was a lot more noticable.



My understanding is that she also wrote some modern style vampire book, which were aweful. In fact, as Astralfire once started a thread about, there isn't that much good vampire literature. Although Darren Sharn was good for its target audience (young teenagers) and Christopher Pikes "Last Vampire" was decent. My girlfriend also says the True Blood books are worth reading but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

The Anita Blake novels are really good, in my opinion, but REALLY adult. Of course, when they start getting REALLY adult, they also get less good. Sigh.

Warlawk
2010-11-23, 03:48 PM
The Anita Blake novels are really good, in my opinion, but REALLY adult. Of course, when they start getting REALLY adult, they also get less good. Sigh.

Everyone I've ever talked to who has actually read them (please note I have not) just considers them vampire porn. "It's like a romance novel with vampires and hardcore sex"

AstralFire
2010-11-23, 03:48 PM
Everyone I've ever talked to who has actually read them (please note I have not) just considers them vampire porn. "It's like a romance novel with vampires and hardcore sex"

I've heard they're better earlier on.

Gametime
2010-11-23, 05:26 PM
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/305936513_5VhCK-L-2.jpg

erikun
2010-11-23, 05:47 PM
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/305936513_5VhCK-L-2.jpg
Your image is so embarassed, it won't show up in my browser.

Psyren
2010-11-23, 07:51 PM
Your image is so embarassed, it won't show up in my browser.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/6/2/

Safety Sword
2010-11-23, 10:53 PM
Even if you get this character reasonably statted out I think the hard bit will be at the tables when the first "but in the book they can XYZ" is dropped.

New to D&D and all these rather complicated abilities...

There will be pain. Good luck with that :)

Cerlis
2010-11-23, 11:46 PM
Even if you get this character reasonably statted out I think the hard bit will be at the tables when the first "but in the book they can XYZ" is dropped.

New to D&D and all these rather complicated abilities...

There will be pain. Good luck with that :)

well i'm optimistic and hope that can be ammended with "Yea but in this game that can be really powerful and we need to keep things fair." or something.

Kinda like how pixies can fly around a person in circles hypnotizing them and whatever, while a DnD pixie would have to fly around them once and then use a standard action to cast lesser confusion :P

true_shinken
2010-11-24, 07:34 AM
Are you sure? I seem to remember book 2 being about Bella's issues with abandonment after Edward disappears, and how she latches onto Jacob, re-developing the friendship that had been on the rocks when she was with Edward.. and Jacob's subsequent issues with becoming a werewolf. Edward didn't even feature very prominently for much of the book, outside of his creepy stalker moments.
Edward leaves because his brother attacks Bella to drink her blood.

onthetown
2010-11-24, 08:52 AM
The abilities Twilight Vampires would possess are

1) Super Strength in the extreme (throwing large boulder's, large trees, etc)
2) Super Speed
3) Almost complete invulnerability
4) and most likely a unique psionic ability


Sorry if any of this has been suggested previously, but:

Medium humanoid, +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Diplomacy and -2 Disguise, Telepathy, something that Dazzles people in the sunlight, the need to kill an animal every so often, and the ability to give all teenage girls within a 2000 ft radius a -2 to Int?

Unfortunately, the way they were written, there would not be any negative abilities given to the race, so that might make other people a little envious...

But do sparkly vampires even fit with the setting?