ELAN sign

[nerdnumber1]

Did anyone actually count the number of flaming dots in the Elan sign? There were apparently 30, but V estimated that Haley and (s)he could save 23 slaves (which were presumably the ones in question. Now this could mean a few things:

1. V underestimated her own skills and/or overestimated Tarquin's security and therefore miscalculated (not very likely).

2. Extra kindling was used to complete the sign (but considering the effort put into the display, this seems like an unacceptable short-cut for Elan's dad and the flames might not look right.)

3. More people were added to complete the display. :smalleek:

I think it was number 3. The loss of seven extra slaves or incompetant logistical support personel is a small price to pay to express a father's love :smalltongue:

What do you think?

[hamishspence]

People who were caught hiding the slaves might be possible candidates.

[Marnath]

This has been discussed extensively in the official strip 759 discussion thread. The most popular theory is that A)they're guards who failed to stop the escape or B)they brought extra slaves from the city to even it out.

[martianmister]

Vaarsuvius is a prophet? Since when?

[Raging Gene Ray]

1. V underestimated her own skills and/or overestimated Tarquin's security and therefore miscalculated (not very likely).

2. Extra kindling was used to complete the sign (but considering the effort put into the display, this seems like an unacceptable short-cut for Elan's dad and the flames might not look right.)

3. More people were added to complete the display. :smalleek:

4. Rich didn't remember or care to take V's throwaway joke into consideration when he was drawing the sign.

[rewinn]

This has been discussed extensively in the official strip 759 discussion thread. The most popular theory is that A)they're guards who failed to stop the escape or B)they brought extra slaves from the city to even it out.In an Evil dictatorship, you do what it takes to satisfy the evil dictator.

T wanted a sign that spelled "Elan" and he wanted to be told it was made of slaves. He GOT a sign that spelled "Elan" and he was, without a doubt, told that it was made of slaves.

What it was ACTUALLY made of doesn't matter. The safest things for Tarquin's army was to use as many slaves as they could find, and then whatever else was available, including other slaves and ... if necessary ... other soldiers ("Evil" remember?)

Of course, there's always the chance that it's all an epic illusion by Girard, seeking to test the Order's intentions. Come to think of it, Girard's natural reaction to Tarquin would be .... interesting.

[Gift Jeraff]

1. V underestimated her own skills and/or overestimated Tarquin's security and therefore miscalculated (not very likely).
Why is this not very likely?

And how was V supposed to know how many slaves they were going to encounter? Sure V may have taken a tour around the palace, but they may have encountered 7 more on their way out, or 7 more were brought in at some point before their liberation.

[Morph Bark]

Vaarsuvius is a prophet? Since when?

Since being taught by Roy.

And the correct term is "future psychic".

[derfenrirwolv]

Estimating how many slaves you can get out relies on a lot of factors, like how many slaves were in any one place at any one time. These things are impossible to know before hand, so your guesses can only get so accurate. This is one of the reasons why Sherlock Holmes drives me nuts.

[Swordpriest]

V's estimate was just that, an estimate. It was not the Word of God. In fact, it was just meant to be funny. (Yes, I know some people think that thinking anything in the comic is funny is an intellectual cop-out of some kind, but that's tough -- I think a lot of stuff is put in with no more reason than to be humorous.)

So, he guessed 23 beforehand, and they freed 30. Is it really that difficult? :smallsigh:

[LOTRfan]

V's estimate was just that, an estimate. It was not the Word of God. In fact, it was just meant to be funny. (Yes, I know some people think that thinking anything in the comic is funny is an intellectual cop-out of some kind, but that's tough -- I think a lot of stuff is put in with no more reason than to be humorous.)

So, he guessed 23 beforehand, and they freed 30. Is it really that difficult? :smallsigh:

:smallfurious:Yes, yes it is!:smallfurious:


:smalltongue:
Seriously, though, V is intelligent, but I doubt s/he could be sure before hand. I think the quote above holds the right answer.

[tcrudisi]

V's estimate was just that, an estimate. It was not the Word of God. In fact, it was just meant to be funny. (Yes, I know some people think that thinking anything in the comic is funny is an intellectual cop-out of some kind, but that's tough -- I think a lot of stuff is put in with no more reason than to be humorous.)

So, he guessed 23 beforehand, and they freed 30. Is it really that difficult? :smallsigh:

Well yes, it is that difficult. Prior to this last strip, I would have agreed with you. Then, what I assumed was a throwaway joke about Elan needing 200ft. high letters spelling out that his father was evil, made me change my mind. Now I am making an active effort to not take anything for granted with the Giant's work. Was it a throwaway joke? Probably. But that's not 100% guaranteed.

[Morquard]

V has been wrong many many times before.
You remember when he thought he could defeat Xykon solo, because he thought he's more powerful than him? Yeah we know how that ended.
His theory about Belkar's brain only knowing two states, Lust and Hate has been proofen wrong too, unless you want to say he has one of those feelings for Mr. Scruffy - and we know its not hate. So it knows at least a third state.

I'm sure with some thinking or searching I'd find more examples.

So why exactly should what he says now be any different? He's not god, and he's not the pope either, so he can be wrong. And apperently he was.

[Nimrod's Son]

The idea that it could be anything other than V making an incorrect estimate never even occurred to me.

(Until, y'know, I clicked on the "Forum" button.)

[Dancing_Fox]

5. More than 30 slaves escaped, but only recaptured ones were used and there are still a few, a lucky few, who are still free and who live in hope.

V&H could have got lucky and got more than the estimate when freeing the slaves, after all.

Variations:
5a. Eg 33 slaves escaped. 30 recaptured, 3 free.
5b. Eg 33 slaves escaped. 28 recaptured, 5 free, 2 alternative fuel sources (other prisoners, failed guards, handy farmers, livestock, timber or oil) were used to make the remaining lights and bring number up to 30.

And also - what a horrible way to go! My sympathy to the poor slaves.

[zimmerwald1915]

So why exactly should what he says now be any different? He's not god, and he's not the pope either, so he can be wrong. And apperently he was.
I haven't run the numbers, but something tells me that V is wrong more often than he is right, and furthermore that he is more wrong about the things he gets wrong than he is right about the things he gets right. Like most PC wizards, his INT as written on his "character sheet" (yes, this isn't a real game, there are no players, there is no DM, there are no character sheets etc.) is very different from the INT suggested by his actions.

Also, we never even saw Haley and V free twenty-three slaves. The second frame of the bottom row of comic 750 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html) shows Haley unshackeling eleven slaves. We then see five slaves running with Haley and V through the palace courtyard in the third panel of the top row. Finally, we see ten slaves escaping into the mountains in the fifth panel of the third row. While it is possible that these are all different groups of slaves (which would make twenty-six escaped slaves in total), it is more likely that each group of slaves we see is the same group, or part of the same group.

[redzimmer]

I subscribe to the "guards who allowed the escape" theory best.

[Dancing_Fox]

I subscribe to the "guards who allowed the escape" theory best.

Failed guards may be put into the games, as an alternative.

But that prompts me to think of:

6) Gladiators who likely would not put on a good show.

(Don't want to even think of what the Forum would do if they thought that Ian Starshine was currently the light on the hill. Although given the cutaway panels in the previous strip, that time disjunction seems unlikely.)

[calar]

I'm going to go with its not really important enough to speculate on. On another note, why is it so unreasonable the V is wrong? Like said before, he/she isn't a prophet.

[dgnslyr]

An overestimation of the guards' competence on V's part, a few people who sheltered the slaves, or an inept guard or three could all account for the discrepancy.

[Morquard]

It's also possible that over the last year or so 7 slaves have managed to run away on their own. Now it was never important enough to search, but now 23 vanished at once.
Search party starts and finds the others too.
Voila, 30 slaves.

But I still put my money on "V was wrong" than this.

[correnos]

V neglected to mention the standard deviation on the figure s/he mentioned to Haley. Therefore, 30 could well have been within the bounds of V's estimation. I doubt that V meant the figure as an exact guess, if for no other reason than the presence of unforeseeable circumstances that PCs have a tendency to encounter.

[zimmerwald1915]

But I still put my money on "V was wrong" than this.
Always a safe bet.

[nerdnumber1]

Why is this not very likely?

And how was V supposed to know how many slaves they were going to encounter? Sure V may have taken a tour around the palace, but they may have encountered 7 more on their way out, or 7 more were brought in at some point before their liberation.

I'm not saying that V is always right, but I would expect her to over-estimate her own ability (how often does she actually undersell her magical abilities?) and under-estimate Tarquin's (who has proven to be better organized and more competant at every turn, such as when he was able to catch the slaves and set them on fire in the same day) instead of the other way around.

[Morquard]

The overestimating times are over actually. V has become sort of modest after the Xykon fiasco and the talk with Blackwing.
She knows now that magic isn't the answer to everything and maybe calculated more carefully this time.

[runekiri]

7)Maybe Vaarsuvius and Haley aren't the only ones releasing prisoners (It seems like Tarquin knows something about Girard, maybe it is beacuse Girard and his allies are enemies to Tarquin, and that Girards team has been releasing prisoners.)

[zimmerwald1915]

The overestimating times are over actually. V has become sort of modest after the Xykon fiasco and the talk with Blackwing.
She knows now that magic isn't the answer to everything and maybe calculated more carefully this time.
Garbage. V's continued pride is more than amply demonstrated by the incident in the magic shop. Further proof, as if any were needed, is provided by V's tactical assessment of the first fight against Gannji and Enor. V determined that "We are almost certainly going to die [without my magic]"; I would hardly call that V placing less importance on magic.

[Dr.Epic]

Well the sign says "FLAN" now.

[dtilque]

Did anyone consider the possibility that there are no captured slaves (or at most just a few) burning in those letters?

Considering the difficulty of hunting down the slaves in twilight/darkness, taking them to the burn sites, getting them lined up to make letters and then setting the fires all at once, all in just a few (4 or 5 maybe) hours. Add to that, the hunting teams are mounted on animals (horses? dinos? slizzards?) and the mountains are some 10 miles away, it doesn't seem possible in that short of time. If they'd been equipped with helicopters, radios, GPS, and a computerized survey of those mountains, then I'd believe it possible.

Just possibly they could do it if they had flying mounts, although we haven't seen anything flying in the EoB except the Emperess. Time would still be a critical factor. What's the flight speed of a laden pterodactyl?

So I think most of all of those fires are empty of slaves. Maybe one or two have them, but the rest were just wood and oil burning to make Tarquin happy. Unless Tarquin has magical communication with his commander in the field, he doesn't know whether they actually captured and burned the slaves or not. And for his purposes (impress Elan), it really doesn't matter. It's the thought that counts.

[R.O.A.]

What's the flight speed of a laden pterodactyl?


African or European pterodactyl?

[Morph Bark]

African or European pterodactyl?

You mean Laurasian or Gondwanan pterosaurs, of course. :smallamused:

[malloyd]

The idea that it could be anything other than V making an incorrect estimate never even occurred to me.

(Until, y'know, I clicked on the "Forum" button.)

I had assumed it was a joke reference in itself - to the Discordian law of fives which frequently uses the number 23 and is pretty well known for that in the gaming community.