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Thurbane
2010-11-21, 11:25 PM
(I considered putting this in the Q&A thread, but thought it might get a little more complicated...)

I may have asked similar to this a while ago, but how do racial SLAs “level up”? They are generally equal in caster level to the HD of the creature in question, but if this is not specifically stated, does the CL go up as the creatures gains HD? Also, does it make a difference if it’s racial HD or class levels? For example, the SLAs of a Yuan-ti Pureblood are CL4th. The creature has 4 Monstrous Humanoid HD, but advances by character class. If it has, say, 4 levels of Ranger, do it’s SLAs now have a CL of 8th?

As an alternate example, how about an Ice Devil...is has 14 Ousider HD, and it’s SLAs are stated as being CL 13th. If it advances by Outsider HD, does the CL of it’s SLAs increase?

Also, I believe the DC is generally calculated as 10 + ½ HD + ability mod. Do class level count for this calculation?

tyckspoon
2010-11-21, 11:58 PM
If not stated to be equivalent to the creature's HD, then the CL of the abilities will stay fixed at the base creature's caster level no matter how you advance the critter, at least by RAW. There is a strong 'just feels right' to the idea of increasing the CL, especially when you advance the creature by racial HD instead of class levels, but it's not in the rules.

If the ability doesn't state otherwise, then class level granted HD will still increase the save DC of any HD-derived DC. They're nicer HD than most racial types, but they're still fundamentally HD.

Ryuuk
2010-11-21, 11:59 PM
I don't think it's ever actually stated. I know I've always assumed that caster levels and such are set unless otherwise stated (like with the dromite (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#dromites)), at least.

This probably isn't what you were hoping for, but there's an entire project (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170469) on the homebrew section dedicated to making monsters playable. One of the first things you'll notice in the entries is that they make sure to say that every SLA has a CL of the creature's HD total, with DCs equal to 10 + HD/2 + Ability Mod.

I don't think that playable monsters, as handled in the 3.5 books, have any rules for improving their caster level though. Adjusting them as you and that project say though, with CL = HD and scaling DCs, seems like the most logical ruling.

Thurbane
2010-11-22, 12:04 AM
No worries, much as I thought: CL doesn't equal HD unless stated to; DC includes total HD... Thanks for the replies.

I wonder if in any "official" WotC stat block for advanced creatures, they increase the CL? Not that this will mean much, as those stat block are often full of errors anyway.

Ryuuk
2010-11-22, 12:12 AM
There must be one in the D&D Fight Club Section.

As far as class levels go though, here's the infamous Succubus Paladin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a), at 8th, 14th and 18th level. The CL for her SLAs remains 12 all the way though.

EDIT: Hehe, and to mix things up, here a Brain in a Jar Psion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20070803a), whose ML for its PLA improves with it's psion levels. I'm not sure if this a feature of the Brain in a Jar though, it seems like it would be naturally psionic anyway.

Runestar
2010-11-22, 04:54 AM
The 3.5 FAQ (page 96) has this to say, for whatever it is worth.


Do spell resistance, damage reduction, or caster level for spell-like abilities increase as a monster advances by Hit Dice?

Unless a monster’s description states otherwise, most monster special abilities aren’t Hit Dice-based, and thus are unaffected by advancement either by HD or by class level. (An exception is the save DC for any monster special ability, which is specifically described as using HD in its calculation).

Again, a DM can create exceptions to this rule; for example, increasing spell resistance by +1 per point of Challenge Rating increase (not per HD) is a good way of keeping a monster’s SR relevant.

faceroll
2010-11-22, 05:07 AM
From the SRD on spell like abilities:

If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.

Thurbane
2010-11-22, 04:28 PM
No worries, thanks. So it's fixed at the stated level unless A.) the ability specifically says it scales with HD or B.) no caster level is listed. Got it. :smallsmile: