OOTS #760 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[zimmerwald1915]

Exquisite...in more ways than one.

It's a shame Elan had to jump into the fight scene though. It's not like Tarquin will share whatever he knows with the OOTS now. And they'll have to defeat/evade Malack, the Empress, and the guards in order to reunite.

[turkishproverb]

Tarquin is AWESOME. So wonderfully affably evil, and there's so very much of Elan in him.

[Edhelras]

I really appreciate that the Giant sticks to the same view on "Evil" alignment as I do: If you're evil, ultmately, you've got to show it. By doing something evil. Not just "mwahahaha I so Evil you can't believe it" while you go around acting like a Good or Neutral person, just because you cannot stomach the social consequences of being Evil.

[Jimorian]

Yeah, you totally have to make sure your eggs know who's boss. :smallamused:

[blueblade]

GO ELAN!! Pun the heck out him!!

[Kobold-Bard]

Next step: V flies Hayley up there and she snipes Tarquin during the duel while Malak & Durkon have another magnificent and visually stunning Cleric duel the shatters the tower around them.

[Basooned]

This is a battle of experience and skill versus TV trope!

[hamishspence]

I really appreciate that the Giant sticks to the same view on "Evil" alignment as I do: If you're evil, ultmately, you've got to show it. By doing something evil. Not just "mwahahaha I so Evil you can't believe it" while you go around acting like a Good or Neutral person, just because you cannot stomach the social consequences of being Evil.

There's plenty of ways of acting evil while being very hard to distinguish from a Good or Neutral person.

Most notably, by confining your Evil deeds to "acceptable targets".

That said, the climatic duel does look like it's going to be good.

[nihil8r]

From now on when people ask me what I'm doing, I'm going to say I'm working on a "realistic plan for world domination." ;)

[Weimann]

So different, yet so alike.

I like how Tarquin gathers tactical information in the middle of a family fight.

The Giant can really handle his villains.

[Edhelras]

I really appreciate that the Giant sticks to the same view on "Evil" alignment as I do: If you're evil, ultmately, you've got to show it. By doing something evil. Not just "mwahahaha I so Evil you can't believe it" while you go around acting like a Good or Neutral person, just because you cannot stomach the social consequences of being Evil.

And I just realized that the Giant (through Tarquin) is kicking at those who say the alignment system is outdated (hence 4E). In fact, Tarquin is showing exactly how Good and Evil (and Durkon and Haley is showing us (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0743.html)Law and Chaos) can be used to flesh out a character, give him spice and a direction, and not only be a straightjacket hindering character development. On the contrary, picking an alignment and playing your character against it furthers character development.

[suszterpatt]

Aw, you can just tell how proud Tarquin is of his son's dramatic sense in the last panel. :]


Also, "Note to self: elf can't cast Teleport". Brilliant.

[I_Am_Muffin]

Does anyone besides me get a really bad feeling that nale is going to appear right in the middle of this fight and perhaps:
1. Help Elan defeat their oppresive father
2. Help Tarquin defeat his rebelious brother
3. Say: "Screw it" and form a side of his own
I'm just sayin, this is a totally possible possiblity. I could happen, he did fly away with sabine and Thog. I think it would be cool if that happened.

[talkamancer]

Go Elan, time to make a dad kebab

[hamishspence]

And I just realized that the Giant (through Tarquin) is kicking at those who say the alignment system is outdated (hence 4E).

4E still has an alignment system- it just took away mechanical penalties for changing alignment to one your class does not support.

That, and ability to detect alignment, and spells that work on an alignment.

But the basic guidelines are still there- and picking an alignment and playing to it, can still flesh out a character, especially if they do so in a distinctive, personalized way.

[Lusorius]

....And there's my WIN quota for the day.

Excellent, just excellent!

[Woodsman]

And so, the epic duel begins.

Anyone else getting a Luke v. Darth Vader in Cloud City feel here?

[Teddy]

Hehehe. I love Tarquin as a villain. He's so much an evil version of Elan (+Int). I also like how he finds it so insulting to be compared to Nale. He certainly houses no love for the son he raised. :smallamused:

[Squirrel_Token]

This whole arc is, I think, the Giant's best work to date. Just brilliantly executed at every stage. Bravo, Giant :smallsmile:

[Klytus]

It seems that cluelessness runs in the family, as The Big T really was clueless about Elan's being clueless. A mastermind, a genius, and a ruthless bastard, but deep down, just like his kids... a clueless twit.

I love characters with nuance. :)

[Astrella]

Despite how much I've grown to despise Tarquin, I couldn't resist smiling when he said exquisite.

[Greenknight 007]

This is exquisite in a few levels: First, it completely shows Tarquin as having no restrains whatsoever, even in fighting his own son, it also shows that he knew from the first time that could happen. It's also a reminder of the family tradition for the over-the-top dramatic, as was the case with elan-nale fights, and it makes me wonder about why the obvious showing of evil, I only think it could be Tarquin WANTED Elan to confront him, and it has to do with the "destiny lies in your hands" thing.

[Taekwondodo]

GO ELAN!!

*giggle* Flan :smallbiggrin:
(I don't get the thing about custard, though that's just a small trifle)

EDIT: Just looked it up and it's a different flan than I was thinking of. (The crème caramel one rather than the open fruit sponge pie one, which makes sense!)

[Paseo H]

Well, liquefying someone for being improper towards a woman isn't uncalled for.

I guess he's still a Complete Monster though.

[Susil]

It took me far longer than it should have to get the custard gag!

Also, I suspect Elan might be in some trouble in a one-on-one fight...

[Agi Hammerthief]

can't make an omlete etc... :smallbiggrin: bahaha

[Astrella]

GO ELAN!!

*giggle* Flan :smallbiggrin:
(I don't get the thing about custard, though that's just a small trifle)

Flan (E without the bottom horizontal line) is a custard dessert.

[The_Admiral]

Empire Strikes Back reference right?

[Taekwondodo]

Flan (E without the bottom horizontal line) is a custard dessert.

Yeah I just googled it as I thought there must be something I was missing. When I hear flan I think of the open fruit sponge pie thing. Thanks though.

[RaggedAngel]

Tarquin may be my second favorite villian in this comic. I don't think he's about to die, but I'd be very suprised if this fight didn't turn out to be rather epic in scale.

That said, do we know if Tarquin is even armed? He didn't pull anything out when he was attacked earlier, but I can't imagine an intelligent (mostly) dictator wandering around defenseless.

[SmaugTheYounger]

Excellent. of course, now they will all end up in the Arena. Fun thing: The guy currently in least danger is already there - Roy. I wonder how this will play out.

[DukeGod]

Heh,taking attention away from the fight,I like how Tarquin is not manicheist either :smallsmile:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh, I cannot wait to see how this turns out.

[Edric O]

There is no way this is going to end well for Elan... or the Order. Tarquin must have already foreseen the possibility of this betrayal and prepared for it.

[tcrudisi]

And I just realized that the Giant (through Tarquin) is kicking at those who say the alignment system is outdated (hence 4E).

With all due respect, this comment is unnecessary. We have a wonderful comic with a brilliant and intelligent bad guy to discuss; there's no reason to turn the discussion thread into an edition war. Also, if you are going to flame an edition, make sure your info is correct, like this:


4E still has an alignment system- it just took away mechanical penalties for changing alignment to one your class does not support.

That, and ability to detect alignment, and spells that work on an alignment.

But the basic guidelines are still there- and picking an alignment and playing to it, can still flesh out a character, especially if they do so in a distinctive, personalized way.

I was really hoping that Elan would find a way to get back to the rest of the OotS without raising an alarm, but in my heart I knew he wouldn't let it pass. He didn't. This could certainly turn into a crowning moment of awesome for Elan, but I fear that he won't be very effective in combat if he relies on melee. After all, the Dashing Swordsman relies on him being punny, which is against the whole emotion of the last few strips and against the tone of the fight. I expect him to fail to use his Dashing Swordsman class.

Instead, I really hope he falls back on his Bardic abilities. This is why I think Elan can, and will, win. He'll find a way to overcome his father by using his magic. I can think of some really awesome ways for him to do this and I would be surprised if the Giant doesn't make Elan's moment as awesome as the SSGOW was. I am extremely excited.

[Firemeier]

This story arc turns out to be made of pure awesome!

Also, note how Elan mirrors his father's signature pose in the second-to-last panel.

[zimmerwald1915]

SSGOW
I am unfamiliar with this abbreviation. Please explain it.

[Pandabear]

Finally! Let the mayhem begin!

[Thanatosia]

I can't see any possible way Elan could present a true challenge to his Father is a strait up fight. Even with the prestige class, he's never been a particularly effective fighter, while Tarquin has been fighting wars for years with who knows how many years as an adventurer before that.... I got to think Tarquin has at least several levels and a good bit of build combat optimization over his son. I could easily see Elan loosing his hand here, he just isn't ready to face his Father in battle.

[Killer Angel]

The omelette part is priceless.
And yeah, Tarquin is one of my favourite villains EVER. :smallcool:

[Puschkin]

Hm, what I am wondering about:
It seems to me that Tarquin somehow planned all of this (or if he hasn't, at least, he isn't surprised by the outcome). So, what is his master plan after all of this? Why turn his son against him? Or, if he planned to screw Elan right from the beginning, why did he wait for so long?
Also, I may be wrong, but I thought Tarquin only knows Haley and Durkon being associated with Elan. How does he know about V?

Maybe he knows much much more than we know about him. Maybe he knows the OOTS very well and tries to eliminate all of them, in a most dramatic badesque way as possible. Then again, that's just way too many improbabilities involved.

I really want to know what happens next.

[Thanatosia]

Also, note how Elan mirrors his father's signature pose in the second-to-last panel.
I think that's just him reaching for his Rapier, not sure its intended to be a posture mirror, but I would'nt really put it past the Giant either.

[Heliomance]

Exquisite...in more ways than one.

It's a shame Elan had to jump into the fight scene though. It's not like Tarquin will share whatever he knows with the OOTS now. And they'll have to defeat/evade Malack, the Empress, and the guards in order to reunite.

Oh, I don't know. Should Tarquin be defeated, explaining what's going on with his dying breath seems very much his style.

[zimmerwald1915]

How does he know about V?
Elan was carrying V when Tarquin bull-rushed Haley out the window. Tarquin became of V just as soon as he became aware of his son (though "the elf" didn't make as big an emotional impact).

[Damaris]

God, Tarquin is awesome. "Elf cannot cast teleport." The bit about omelettes. How happy he looks in the last panel! <3



Also, I may be wrong, but I thought Tarquin only knows Haley and Durkon being associated with Elan. How does he know about V?


V was captured together with Elan and Haley. Durkon is the one he doesn't know about (unless he caught Elan shouting his name just now). (Aaand, ninjad.)

[zimmerwald1915]

Oh, I don't know. Should Tarquin be defeated, explaining what's going on with his dying breath seems very much his style.
That's a pretty big "should", given Tarquin's got twenty years worth of class levels on his son, and given than Elan doesn't typically make the best use of his resources.

[Worlok]

Damn. I've been waiting for this moment -or something like it - for a while now, but now that the awesome is about to go off the scales... I'm really not sure who to root for. Nor whether anything hereafter could possibly get as intense as this arc. But then, it's the Giant, so it probably will. :smalleek: This comic is nothing short of a great work of art.

[Antacid]

(I don't get the thing about custard, though that's just a small trifle)

/ sunglasses

YEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!!

[Lvl45DM!]

Exquisite.
that gave me shivers down my spine. He is looking forward to fighting his own son! Though its easy to tell that Elan is his favourite, despite Nale being his alignment. Fascinating.
Seriously, im tingling all over

[fractal]

So, suppose Tarquin wins. Outfights Elan, calls his guards, whatever. He anticipated this moment, Elan didn't, and Tarquin plans ahead. The question is, what then?

I don't think Tarquin throws them all to the lions; at least, not unless he expects them to survive and escape. Tarquin is proud of Elan, not mad at him - Elan understands the importance of procedure! Tarquin's philosophy seems to be it's not what you do, but how you do it; not good vs. evil, but stylish vs. unstylish. Elan is a worthy legacy from that perspective.

A question, then, is how do we distinguish Tarquin from Kubota? Both are (were) card-carrying Lawful Evil masterminds. However, Kubota's approach was petty, while Tarquin's is grand. (For the most part... the serial wife thing is a little jarring, but it's mostly background scenery for Tarquin, anyway.)

Should Tarquin win, I think he will find some excuse to tell Elan about Girard anyway. Elan might then be left to a Bond-like doom, from which escape is practically guaranteed. However, that would still cancel the festival and eliminate Roy and Belkar's anticipated arena battles. From a narrative perspective, Elan and Tarquin need to arrive at some sort of enforced truce.

[Prospero]

Well, since Tarquin (unlike Elan) is hardly an idiot, he should've been aware of his son's alignment and the possible outcome of his actions. So it's almost certain that he intentionally provoked Elan imo. I wonder what his plan is.

[Mr. Snuggles]

Well! So much for Roy's "wait and get Tarquin to spill what he knows about Girard" plan. How will they find Girard now?

It also blows up the idea of "get royal pardon for Roy and then decide to do about Belkar". How will they get out of the arena? Spartacus-style slave revolt?

Why did Elan shout for Durkon, dwarven priest of Thor that he has never met before? Doubtlessly Tarquin noted this as well, but using his inside voice.

"Yes, of course! Procedure is important" pure Lawful right there.

How does Elan know that the slaves were rescued by Haley? The whole idea was to do it behind his back, no?

Tarquin won't fight! I haven't yet seen him with a weapon. In addition, he has already once brushed off Elan's attacks singlefingeredly. I mean, come on, mid-level bard vs. high level fighter? No contest, no matter how many words Elan can think of that rhyme with "tyrant". I say no fighting on the rooftop. His guards will come up and tackle Elan. Or ninjas amateur snorkelers pop up out of nowhere.

Note that while they're on the platform, EVERYBODY is watching. How's it going to look when Elan draws a sword on everyone's beloved warlord?

[Chameleon]

The devil's in the details, apparently.


Speaking about parents, since Tarquin seems to share the same kind of humor as Elan, does that means Elan's punny strikes will be more effective or less effective?

[bue52]

Looks like Tarquin is going to be the next party to challenge the Oots. (Would love to see Nale and his father duel it out over a gate)

I'm so excited over this fight seen, I had expected Elan to go find Haley first not do a dramatic exclamation. Hopefully the rest will realise what is happening and come to his aid. Or we may find ourselves having a cutscene to Roy, which isn't as bad either.

[Johel]

This strip is made of win.
Me love it !!! :smallsmile:

"Note to self : Elf cannot cast Teleport"
Priceless

[Mercenary Pen]

Tarquin won't fight! I haven't yet seen him with a weapon.

Well, I can see him with a weapon right now, because armour spikes count I believe.

[Darkfyre99]

Yea! Elan!!!

Kill kill kill the tyrant that is your father!

[Asthix]

Ooh, pre-work update. Shiny.

My first impression is how much more evil it would have been to immolate 33 slaves for the purpose expressing your love of Flan.


This story arc turns out to be made of pure awesome!

Also, note how Elan mirrors his father's signature pose in the second-to-last panel.

Nice catch.


SSGOW I am unfamiliar with this abbreviation. Please explain it.

I dunno either but I'm passing it along.

I'm also of the opinion that Elan cannot beat his father right now. It wouldn't be dramatic enough. Also, despite the possibility they could all end up in the arena, I think T's lawfulness will still compel him to tell what he knows about Girard.

[Kareasint]

It took enough blows but the LE side of Tarquin finally shattered the veil of ignorance surrounding Elan. I cannot wait to see what sort of witty comments that Elan will come up with (Dashing Swordsman).

[rakkoon]

Love this development, a very good arc indeed. Wonder if we'll hear anything about Girard soon.

[Excalibur]

He seems rather confident, that new nemesis of his.

[Mercenary Pen]

SSGOW


I am unfamiliar with this abbreviation. Please explain it.

The abbreviation is, I believe, a reference to Belkar's Sexy Shoeless God Of War moment during the battle for Azure City.

[Orzel]

Amen to that Tarquin.
What up with people not thinking you are going to liquefy something?

You SAID you were going to?

[The_Admiral]

Come on nobody noticed the starwars reference?

[tcrudisi]

Thanks Mercenary Pen.


I am unfamiliar with this abbreviation. Please explain it.


I dunno either but I'm passing it along.

Yes, by SSGOW I meant "Sexy Shoeless God of War", which was, in my opinion, one of the finest moments in all of OotS. The buildup is definitely there for Elan to have one that at least matches, and perhaps surpasses, the moment when Belkar became the SSGOW. It might not happen... but I have my fingers crossed that it will.

[Bron Baraz]

Well! So much for Roy's "wait and get Tarquin to spill what he knows about Girard" plan. How will they find Girard now?...

Tarquin won't fight! I haven't yet seen him with a weapon. In addition, he has already once brushed off Elan's attacks singlefingeredly. I mean, come on, Bard vs. high level fighter? No contest, no matter how many words Elan can think of that rhyme with "tyrant". I say no fighting on the rooftop. His guards will come up and tackle Elan. Or ninjas amateur snorkelers pop up out of nowhere.


Maybe this is time for Girard's reveal...? He (or a member of his shadowy group) appeared to magically track the Order following their triggering of the Illusion in the Desert. If he's been following them _after_ this, then Elan's rooftop actions and speech about 'defeating corrupt tyrants' might be enough to finally convince Girard (he of the chaotic anti-'fascist paladin lackey' brigade!) that OOTS is a group he could do business with, or at least listen to...? Girard must _hate_ the notion of Tarquin and his cronies carving up most of the contitent between them, after all.

Just an idea, not sure if I back it myself! But if it's not that, then I'd bet on Tarquin easily subduing Elan by some villainy (but non-fatal... at this point...) means.

[Jimorian]

Should Tarquin win, I think he will find some excuse to tell Elan about Girard anyway. Elan might then be left to a Bond-like doom, from which escape is practically guaranteed. However, that would still cancel the festival and eliminate Roy and Belkar's anticipated arena battles. From a narrative perspective, Elan and Tarquin need to arrive at some sort of enforced truce.

I think the one thing that would make Tarquin help the Order despite all this kerfuffle is that the Snarl would mess up his Western Continent Master Plan. And as distasteful as the Order may find Tarquin's methods and goals, they still have a more important quest to take care of instead of wasting time trying to oppose Tarquin.

And dangit, this better not interrupt the arena matches we've been waiting for!

[Mr. Snuggles]

Well, I can see him with a weapon right now, because armour spikes count I believe.
Those are the spikes of villainy, they are purely there to show readers that Tarquin is an evil character.

[Ranylyn]

"Like father, like son."

The last panel was just great, really. I also laughed at the comment about custard (flan) and "Note to self: the mage can't teleport." But no, the best part was the family resemblance in that last panel.

[SmaugTheYounger]

Well! So much for Roy's "wait and get Tarquin to spill what he knows about Girard" plan. How will they find Girard now?

It also blows up my idea of "get royal pardon for Roy and then decide to do about Belkar". This would have been... boring? But seriously, Roy would have thought of something like this. Durkon too. Haley and V already lowered the chance for this option by freeing the slaves. And Belkar... you know. Not his style. As a group, OotS isn't up for the most logical and effective solution.
How will they get out of the arena? Spartacus-style slave revolt?

Why did Elan shout for Durkon, dwarven priest of Thor that he has never met before? Doubtlessly Tarquin noted this as well, but using his inside voice.
Elan is noted for such tings.

"Yes, of course! Procedure is important" pure Lawful right there.

How does Elan know that the slaves were rescued by Haley? The whole idea was to do it behind his back, no?
He really doesn't.

Tarquin won't fight! I haven't yet seen him with a weapon. In addition, he has already once brushed off Elan's attacks singlefingeredly. I mean, come on, Bard vs. high level fighter? No contest, no matter how many words Elan can think of that rhyme with "tyrant". I say no fighting on the rooftop. His guards will come up and tackle Elan. Or ninjas amateur snorkelers pop up out of nowhere.

Note that while they're on the platform, EVERYBODY is watching. How's it going to look when Elan draws a sword on everyone's beloved warlord?
We can all agree that they are in deep **** now. Which is where the fun starts. And the itching for the strips next update.

[Mercenary Pen]

Those are the spikes of villainy, they are purely there to show readers that Tarquin is an evil character.

That may be so, but they can always be enhanced to a minimum of +1 nonetheless (in fact, for all we know they could have a homebrewed liquefying enchantment on them)

[J.Gellert]

Too many great lines to count... Tarquin is awesome.

[kerberos]

I was really hoping that Elan would find a way to get back to the rest of the OotS without raising an alarm, but in my heart I knew he wouldn't let it pass. He didn't. This could certainly turn into a crowning moment of awesome for Elan, but I fear that he won't be very effective in combat if he relies on melee. After all, the Dashing Swordsman relies on him being punny, which is against the whole emotion of the last few strips and against the tone of the fight. I expect him to fail to use his Dashing Swordsman class.

Instead, I really hope he falls back on his Bardic abilities. This is why I think Elan can, and will, win. He'll find a way to overcome his father by using his magic. I can think of some really awesome ways for him to do this and I would be surprised if the Giant doesn't make Elan's moment as awesome as the SSGOW was. I am extremely excited.
I'm going to side with Tarquins age and treachery over Elans youth and ... Well imcompetence. It would require a major Deus Ex Machina for Elan to defeat any really competent enemy and Tarquin is definetly competent.

[truemane]

That was a fantastic strip. I was just telling someone how the current arc hasn't really been jazzing with me like some of the previous ones did. And then this comes along. "Exquisite." Perfect.

[Mauve Shirt]

Go Elan! I really hope he wins. He won't, but I can hope.

[Sengoku]

This whole arc is, I think, the Giant's best work to date. Just brilliantly executed at every stage. Bravo, Giant :smallsmile:

+1

Also, I look forward to see who's more Genre Savvy between Elan and his dad (as the outcome of the duel will be decided by that, I have little doubt).

The 'Note to self' makes me think, however, that all that is happening must have been accurately analyzed by Tarquin, including Elan's companions' strength, so I think our favourite Dashing Swordsman is going to lose the right hand in the duel unless Julio Scoundrel or Girard come to stop them :smallbiggrin:.

Or Tarquin might just let his son 'go, to return when he can make more climatix duels' after he beat him, I'm burning with eager.

The Giant should either be hanged or praised for his cliffhangers :smallwink:.

[Doc Kraken]

Tarquin won't fight! I haven't yet seen him with a weapon.

Didn't he have a massive axe way back in his first appearance? I'll bet he's got that hanging over a fireplace within easy reach if need be or something else suitably dramatic.

Tarquin is a scary, scary man. Best of luck to Elan, he's going to need all the Star Wars references he can get (except, y'know. That thing with the hand. Which is entirely possible, assuming Tarquin gets that axe...).

[ref]

Dun dun DUN!!

Good. After missing my Kazoe Yakuman Iishanten to a Riichi Dake hand (Let's see how many people understands this) I needed this.

[Gandariel]

I just wanted to thank the giant for the magnificent last few strips (and how fast he was in drawing them)...

Really, thanks

it's really easy to start complaining if you happen to do something wrong, skip one or two updates, and such..
but these weeks the strips had been really, really great

go on like this! :D

[Turalisj]

I believe this is The Giant saying "Yes, he's lawful evil, now shut up about his alignment." :smallbiggrin:

[The Pilgrim]

"Note to sefl: Elf cannot cast Teleport".

Great.

Now, I expect Tarquin will have a card under his sleeve, to play if things get too ugly. For example, that Elan still needs information about Giriard.

[Forealms]

Elan is definitely screwed. Even if Tarquin doesn't have a few more levels as Elan, or even as many levels, his are almost certainly in some combat-centric class.

Unless Vaarsuvius or Haley jump in, that is. Then I'm reasonably certain they could take him. Of course, then you have to figure in Tarquin's allies, as well.

[jmucchiello]

Exquisite!

[RMS Oceanic]

Tarquin's complaint about Nale's methods reminded me of Grand Nagus Zek on Deep Space Nine.

"Stupid boy! You don't seize power. You accumulate it sneakily without anybody noticing!"

[Stabbey]

These last few strips have been fantastic, it's getting really exciting.

But there is no way at all that Elan will win in a straight-up fight. Tarquin doesn't look the least bit surprised or worried. In fact, he's smiling in the last panel.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

Tarquin's dialogue in this strip could be quoted, almost in its entirety, in a "Favorite Quotes" thread. I suspect (for whatever reason) that he's deliberately led up to this moment, hoping to get Elan to fight him. He asked Elan awhile back whether he'd vanquished any villains yet. If Tarquin knew for some reason that he was going down anyway, or for some reason planned to take a fall, I'm sure he'd appreciate it being his own son who defeated him.

[Turalisj]

Elan is definitely screwed. Even if Tarquin doesn't have a few more levels as Elan, or even as many levels, his are almost certainly in some combat-centric class.

Unless Vaarsuvius or Haley jump in, that is. Then I'm reasonably certain they could take him. Of course, then you have to figure in Tarquin's allies, as well.

Wait.... Intelligent.... Warrior....

Tarquin is a warblade! Or duskblade. Or psychic warrior... Or maybe just a very intelligent fighter like Roy.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[hamishspence]

Wait.... Intelligent.... Warrior....

Tarquin is a warblade! Or duskblade. Or psychic warrior... Or maybe just a very intelligent fighter like Roy.

Or factotum? That's in Dungeonscape (which The Giant co-wrote) and specializes in Int- and is very versatile.

[Turalisj]

Never read dungeonscape :P

[Ancalagon]

Haha. Awesome development. Foreseeable, but very awesome.

Now, what is Tarquins real plan? He must have known something like that c/would happen...

[Orzel]

Unless Tarquin was speaking figuratively, he was able to liquefy someone before his divorce.

Liquifying someone in D&D as a human typically requires magic, super strength, or a blender. So Tarquin is probably a spellcaster. Maybe wizard or sorceror.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Awesome Giant! I cannot wait for the next, thanks! :smallsmile:

[hamishspence]

Never read dungeonscape :P

It's good. This particular strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html

is a reference to it- the Acidborn Shark.

"The only thing better than a pool full of acid, is a pool full of acid with a shark in it. Until now, the dream could not be realized because the shark died after a short time in the acid."

[Turalisj]

Unless Tarquin was speaking figuratively, he was able to liquefy someone before his divorce.

Liquifying someone in D&D as a human typically requires magic, super strength, or a blender. So Tarquin is probably a spellcaster. Maybe wizard or sorceror.

Well, there's a list of tome of battle maneuvers that could fit that blender setting. Like adamantine hurricane. Or time stands still.

Or he called in a favor from a spellcaster and had him liquefied.

[zimmerwald1915]

In fact, he's smiling in the last panel.
He's always smiling in the last panel. It's one of the things that makes him awesome.

[Conuly]

Liquifying someone in D&D as a human typically requires magic, super strength, or a blender. So Tarquin is probably a spellcaster. Maybe wizard or sorceror.

Or he just had a really big blender he'd been waiting to try out. Why make things complicated?

[GeekDaddy]

Is anyone else wondering exactly where Elan was storing his rapier (next to the last panel)?

Also, it just occurred to me that V has a debt owed to a couple of outer-planar types...

[zimmerwald1915]

Is anyone else wondering exactly where Elan was storing his rapier (next to the last panel)?
The same place Miko stored her daisho, where the Oracle stored his Wand of Dismissal, and where Vaarsuvius stores her spellbook.

[Gift Jeraff]

Yeah. This is a Cloud City duel, not a second Death Star duel.

Anyway, it seems Tarquin is just as delusional as Tsukiko. Sorry, guys, but you just can't think that way in a fantasy setting like this.

[RanceGreycastle]

I will certainly cease to be if I don't see this EPIC duel soon.

[Da'Shain]

Hurray! We're finally gonna learn just how awesome Tarquin is! Maybe we'll even learn what his build is.

[aryeh88]

I only think it could be Tarquin WANTED Elan to confront him, and it has to do with the "destiny lies in your hands" thing.

I agree with Greenknight.

[kierthos]

I can't possibly see how Elan can win this fight.

Okay, assuming that Tarquin doesn't just call in the guards to handle this, here's the problems.

1) We don't know that Tarquin is unarmed. He doesn't appear to be armed, but until Elan pulled out the rapier, he didn't appear to be armed either. Given that Tarquin is the Warlord (or whatever) of the Empire of Blood, he'd be a fool to not be carrying at least one weapon when walking around, just in case.

2) Elan is not a front-line fighter. He's a bard with at least one level of Dashing Swordsman. He's almost certainly looking at a severe BAB difference vs. his father, not to mention that his father almost certainly has a better AC, better HPs, and probably more magic items.

3) He's evil. He's not going to fight fair. Sure, he might fight more fair against Elan then against anyone else, but he's still an "Evil Overlord".

4) We also don't know what level he is. Yeah, if he's not an active adventurer any more, he's not leveling as often as Elan has been, but he's high enough level to pull off the Warlord thing, and he's been doing it for years.

Elan's screwed. He might be able to draw out the fight, but there's no way he's winning this as a one-on-one battle.

[megabyter5]

Sorry Elan, this duel is not climactic enough. You will be defeated, escape with the rest of the party, and have to defeat the other members of Tarquin's party before encountering him again and insisting that the others stand back while you face him alone once more. Then, either your father will be redeemed at the last minute (if only as another Star Wars reference), or you will offer him one last chance to be redeemed, which he will spurn before proceeding to fall to his death so you don't have to kill him yourself.

[Flickerdart]

"On a rooftop, no less.

Exquisite."

I love it. :smallbiggrin:

[Fargazer]

That had to be one of the most amazing punchlines I've read in a long time. Great comic.

"On a rooftop, no less..."

[Locnil]

Finally! This was awesome.

Note to self: Elf cannot cast Teleport. I wonder what he's planning...

[Conuly]

Probably nothing, yet. But a wizard who can't teleport is (I believe...? Previous dialog in the comment indicates it) unusual enough that you WANT to remember it, just in case.

[Kgw]

I keep on thinking about the end of this fight:

How many months usually last a kingdom there? A year? And they just have a parade for their first year... Is Tarquin planning to bring the Empire of Blood through an epic fight with his own son?

[Mercenary Pen]

Finally! This was awesome.

Note to self: Elf cannot cast Teleport. I wonder what he's planning...

Now to arrange a baleful transposition for the elf?

[Incendax]

Elan is going to be beaten to within an inch of his life, and the moment before he is captured by the guards he will leap off the rooftop...

...and land in the Arena for a dramatic escape at the hands of Roy and a grumpy Belkar who was looking forward to killing people.

[calar]

Wow, wrong reaction to your own son turning on you much? Oh well, wouldn't have it any other way.

[GreenMuffin]

Loved the eggs quote. Laughed so hard.

[Gift Jeraff]

I keep on thinking about the end of this fight:

How many months usually last a kingdom there? A year? And they just have a parade for their first year... Is Tarquin planning to bring the Empire of Blood through an epic fight with his own son?
The Empire of Blood has lasted 2 years.

My guess as to why it has lasted "so long" is because it's a lot harder to assassinate something like a giant, hungry red dragon.

[Warder]

Elan isn't screwed at all. He may lose this fight - and he probably will, only to escape just in time to warn the others before the Imperial guard busts down the door - but he has one thing on his side that trumps anything Tarquin can throw at him. The good-aligned son will always defeat his evil-aligned father; there is no getting around this trope. Tarquin is doomed, but I have a feeling he'll be perfectly content if he can just go out in style.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

*Begins playing O Fortuna*

[maxon]

Flan (E without the bottom horizontal line) is a custard dessert.

Interesting - not in England it isn't. It does involve eggs and pastry but is usually savoury.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The next time I need to show my players how evil/ruthless the villain is, I will have them find him, making an omelet a la Tarquin :smallamused:

This strip is.... exquisite [B]Yeahhhh[/B :smallcool:

[Turalisj]

Now to arrange a baleful transposition for the elf?

Nomad Psion + Baleful Teleport

[sihnfahl]

Probably nothing, yet. But a wizard who can't teleport is (I believe...? Previous dialog in the comment indicates it) unusual enough that you WANT to remember it, just in case.
Well, there would be two reasons it's significant.

Either they're not a high enough level to cast it, or they barred conjuration.

Pray Tarquin thinks it's the first, and not the second.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

GO ELAN! This is pretty much the moment I was waiting for. Finally, Elan, you numbskull.

[Turalisj]

*Begins playing O Fortuna*

You're doing it wrong

*Anakin's theme begin's playing*

[Half-Orc Rage]

In a straight fight there is no way Elan can beat Tarquin. Mid level bard vs high level fighter? Not happening.

Now, if the bard used his abilities and spells in an intelligent way, using spells like mirror image to help avoid direct attacks, maybe.

But this is Elan we're talking about, so no chance.

[Acero]

If you want to make an omelette, you gotta break some eggs.
grates some cheese,
slice the mushrooms real thin,
cook some sausage or bacon,
put a bit of pepper, but not too much.

and then you kill the chickens to send a message :smallamused:

[Capt Spanner]

From now on when people ask me what I'm doing, I'm going to say I'm working on a "realistic plan for world domination." ;)

That's what I've been telling people for years. :smallamused:

[Sijo]

Okay, that was good, in fact maybe the best strip so far in the whole "Desert Arc" (...which doesn't speak too well of the arc as a whole. Seriously, I almost dropped OOTS out of boredom.)

I'm still unclear on whether Tarquin is Evil but likes to pretend he isn't, or truly doesn't realize he is. I'm also not clear on whether his surprise was intended to rile up Elan against him or if he truly thought his son would like it. Either way it made for an interesting verbal showdown- and now comes the physical one, though I really doubt Elan has an actual chance against him- unless he's joined by the rest of his team (now that would be the really classic D&D tradition!) Could we leave Belkar behind in the end too? He would be happy in the Arena and I would be happy never to see him again. :smalltongue:

[DreadArchon]

What, no comments on the "capitalization" line? That's one of my favorites in OOTS to date.

[TheBlackShadow]

My respect for Tarquin and his characterisation increases by the strip. Strangely, in my mind, taking into account that this is a stick comic and my already limited sense of empathy is dulled even further, the only REALLY reprehensible he's done is force unwilling young ladies to marry him for no real reason other than his own desires. The despotic empire and lack of respect for human life I can ignore in the context of a stick comic, and I practically endorse his means of pacifying the Western Continent and the whole "liquify all the guys in the tavern who grab your significant other's ass" thing we saw in this strip, my only beef with that last one being that she didn't want him to, for some reason (personally, I don't see how she *couldn't* want him to butcher them mercilessly. Maybe so that she could do it herself? :smallconfused:). Otherwise, it seems a perfectly rational reaction.

In other news, however, I can't help but feel that Elan has himself outmatched here. Tarquin has already shown himself to be a good bit more intelligent than him, and given his years of adventuring is probably higher level too. Hell, we're not even entirely certain what class he is. I suspect that this isn't going to go well for Elan.

These have been very good lately Mr. Giant, keep it up!

[Elfin]

Awesome.

And I think I smell a Chekov's gun with the whole 'elf cannot cast teleport' thing.

[grimbold]

all right
i like this story arc
but it is dragging on and on
there are pressing issues at hand

[Lvl45DM!]

My respect for Tarquin and his characterisation increases by the strip. Strangely, in my mind, taking into account that this is a stick comic and my already limited sense of empathy is dulled even further, the only REALLY reprehensible he's done is force unwilling young ladies to marry him for no real reason other than his own desires.

Buring slaves alive does nothing for you?

[TheBlackShadow]

In this context? Strangely no. IRL, yes, this would be absolutely reprehensible, but in a stick comic? I can't bring myself to care particularly. The unwilling marriage thing? Now that's much worse in my mind, somehow.

[binyamin20]

That's what I've been telling people for years. :smallamused:

I get a feeling that the FBI internet terrorist scans are going to read that (and this).

[Iferus]

My guess is that tarquin plans to lose this fight. He knows Elan won't kill him, so he's safe. It may even be part of a bigger plot to corrupt his son by forcing him to choose between evils.

[RayGallade]

Well, I certain hope that, supposing Elan loses, he avoids the usual sentence for assaulting a general of the EOB. Maybe the courts would also make an exception for the general's son?
Love Tarquin's depth as a character~

[Turalisj]

I get a feeling that the FBI internet terrorist scans are going to read that (and this).

And what? Think that a bunch of gamer nerds are plotting the downfall of the free world? We can't even decide who is going to be bringing the soda and chips to a game, let alone conquer a nation.

[DoctorIllithid]

It's been a nice run, Tarquin. But we both know you're probably no match for a protagonist, much less three. Malak could probably just raise him afterward anyway...

Then again, Elan can't kill him. He's the only guy who knows anything about the Gate!

[Turalisj]

It's been a nice run, Tarquin. But we both know you're probably no match for a protagonist, much less three. Malak could probably just raise him afterward anyway...

Then again, Elan can't kill him. He's the only guy who knows anything about the Gate!

Since when when did you assume that he hasn't died once already?

[Crisis21]

Personally, I think that the reason Nale wanted the throne, whether or not he was in on the con, boils down to a fundamental difference between Nale and his father Tarquin. Note: This does agree with other theories posted above.

Both want power, there's no denying it. They want to be in charge and get everything they want as a result.

Tarquin wants security. He doesn't care who people believe to be in charge as long as he's the one pulling the strings. He doesn't mind sharing with his old adventuring buddies if it increases his chances of success. His biggest concern is how to maintain the status quo of him in power once he achieves it. He knows the risks and, as a result of previous failures, when he's overreaching himself, and thus takes steps to avoid it.

Nale wants prestige. He does care about who is perceived as being in charge, and refuses to accept anyone other than himself. He wants people to know he's the head honcho and is unwilling to share his position with anyone. His party members are all subordinate to him, not equals by any stretch of the imagination. He does not accept that there are risks he's better off not taking, and constantly overreaches himself.


I have a new personal theory on this as a result of a conversation in another thread. I'll go ahead and quote myself here for your benefit:


:eek: OMG! Tarquin could totally be doing that!

He admitted, to Elan's face no less, that he and his group set up coups against their 'rulers' every now and then. He's also expressed a love of the dramatic equal to Elan's, only evil in nature. Tarquin could be setting up Elan as the heroic liberator deposing his tyrannical father, and even further his own plan in the process!

Tarquin isn't trying to set up Elan as his heir, he's trying to goad Elan into a classic heroic son vs. villainous father duel!

If Rich is setting it up this way, I may have to bow and worship him even more.....


This theory assumes that Tarquin is well aware that Elan is a Good adventurer (even if he's not quite aware of Elan's naivety) and is planning on manipulating that into another classic of dramatic convention.

Seriously, he's been waiting for who knows how many years to just say: "Elan, I am your father." I can totally see him deliberately setting up a 'liberator son' vs. 'tyrannical father' duel, probably even to help transition the change over to a new empire name (the Empire of Blood has a couple of years under its belt and may be due for a turnover) at the same time.

Of course, we all know what happens when plans meet Elan.... :biggrin:

Wow. I think I got everything right except that Tarquin planned it this way. And considering how intelligent and methodical, not to mention genre savvy, Tarquin is, that may still be possible.

*Proceeds to bow and worship Rich*

[kerberos]

And what? Think that a bunch of gamer nerds are plotting the downfall of the free world? We can't even decide who is going to be bringing the soda and chips to a game, let alone conquer a nation.

Actually it won't even go that far. If some scanner picks this up this exchange it will be stored and nothing will happen untill or unless one of us is actually implicated on a terrorist plot. Collecting data is one thing, but no one has the manpower to even skim all the crap a data filter like that collects.

[Turalisj]

Actually it won't even go that far. If some scanner picks this up this exchange it will be stored and nothing will happen untill or unless one of us is actually implicated on a terrorist plot. Collecting data is one thing, but no one has the manpower to even skim all the crap a data filter like that collects.

Good point. But this might also be getting too close to the topic of politics, and the mods DO have the manpower to skim every post that get's flagged... Trust me. :smallannoyed:

[kierthos]

I can't see Tarquin using this fight as the explanation for regime change in the Empire of Blood. For one thing, the previous regime changes have revolved around the thrones changing hands, not the powers behind the throne being unseated. (Or at least, not largely so. Presumably the "Order of Evil" is all still around.)

For another, they'd still have to kill the red dragon.

[Particle_Man]

By the way, Tarquin might have made an error, once again assuming that Elan knows more about the other characters than he does. Elan's panicking and such does not necessarily mean that V cannot cast teleport, but Tarquin might think this is the case based on Elan's returning to the fight. But we know that what Elan thinks is so is not necessarily so.

But the fight should be dramatic. If it were a 7th Sea game it would be closer, but as a D&D game, Tarquin only loses if he wants to lose.

[Turalisj]

I can't see Tarquin using this fight as the explanation for regime change in the Empire of Blood. For one thing, the previous regime changes have revolved around the thrones changing hands, not the powers behind the throne being unseated. (Or at least, not largely so. Presumably the "Order of Evil" is all still around.)

For another, they'd still have to kill the red dragon.

Doubt this will change the throne of the Empire.

But as for the red dragon...

V: I cast Clog Arteries.

[Lemur Bear]

Well, I certain hope that, supposing Elan loses, he avoids the usual sentence for assaulting a general of the EOB. Maybe the courts would also make an exception for the general's son?

Tarquin and the kingdom is Lawful Evil. If nothing else, the sentence will be carried out appropriately unless there is a law that says that anyone who kills a general becomes a general.

Regardless, the proper form would be that there is an epic fight and one or both Elan and Tarquin will be in a silhouette as the sun sets and one will be declared the victor.

[Scarlet Knight]

Doubt this will change the throne of the Empire.

But as for the red dragon...

V: I cast Clog Arteries.

" As the horrendous beast lunged forward, escape for Roy and the Order seemed hopeless. When suddenly, the Empress suffered a fatal heart-attack. The cartoon peril was no more." :smalltongue:

[tcrudisi]

I can't see Tarquin using this fight as the explanation for regime change in the Empire of Blood. For one thing, the previous regime changes have revolved around the thrones changing hands, not the powers behind the throne being unseated. (Or at least, not largely so. Presumably the "Order of Evil" is all still around.)

For another, they'd still have to kill the red dragon.

This is what I've been trying to say the last couple of strips. Until someone can provide me with a good explanation as to how unseating Tarquin results in a regime change, I just don't think it can happen. Remember, it's the red dragon that's "in charge".


By the way, Tarquin might have made an error, once again assuming that Elan knows more about the other characters than he does. Elan's panicking and such does not necessarily mean that V cannot cast teleport, but Tarquin might think this is the case based on Elan's returning to the fight. But we know that what Elan thinks is so is not necessarily so.

But the fight should be dramatic. If it were a 7th Sea game it would be closer, but as a D&D game, Tarquin only loses if he wants to lose.

First, hasn't Elan seen V use teleport when V moved the entire fleet?

Second, why is everyone thinking that Elan is outmatched? Elan is a high-level bard. His father is (most likely) a high level Fighter (or melee type). Elan should be able to apply his magic properly and win the day. Now this is the part where everyone goes, "But it's Elan!" And that's my point. This is the opportunity for Elan to step up and have some real character development. He will win this fight, he will win it without any assistance, and it will be no less than epic. I fully expect even V to have strong words of praise for Elan when this is over.

[WreckedElf]

I'm concerned by what Tarquin meant by "Liquify." I had been assuming he was a fighter, but liquify doesn't seem like the way a fighter would describe how he kills someone. I can't picture him being a sorcerer or wizard, and flashback panels showing in him earlier comics all implied a melee class. Any chance he's a bard? Do they even get access to strong enough spells to melt people? What about a prestige class, like eldridge knight or something?

Now that I think about it, given how Elan is a bard + prestige class, and Nale is some excessive multiclass figher\sorcerer\rogue deal, and how Elan and Nale both seem to have inherited so many traits from their father, it wouldn't really seem right if Tarquin turned out to be a pure class fighter.

[Welf]

I just love Tarquin :smallsmile:

And I'm not kidding. That's the second meaningless fanboy post in a row, and before that I haven't commented on a comic for years.

[Sinfonian]

You're doing it wrong

*Anakin's theme begin's playing*

Apologies, but that's not right either.

*Cues up Duel of the Fates*

[Tazar]

Elan screws up once again. :smallannoyed:

Tarquin may be evil, but he represents the best chance at long-term peace and stability for the constantly warring human empires. Deposing and killing him isn't going to do anything except spark further bloodshed.
Elan seriously needs to think about the consequences of his actions before he jumps in headfirst like he always does, for pete's sake.

Here's hoping Tarquin wins, I honestly like him far better than Elan as a character.

[kierthos]

Doubt this will change the throne of the Empire.

But as for the red dragon...

V: I cast Clog Arteries.
Ah, if only V still had Familicide.... imagine taking out (theoretically) a quarter of the red dragons too.

Although since the red dragon in question either doesn't yet have access to spells, she's probably fairly susceptible to disintegrate.

[Eiremauve]

Well! So much for Roy's "wait and get Tarquin to spill what he knows about Girard" plan. How will they find Girard now?

It also blows up the idea of "get royal pardon for Roy and then decide to do about Belkar". How will they get out of the arena? Spartacus-style slave revolt?

How does Elan know that the slaves were rescued by Haley? The whole idea was to do it behind his back, no?



A Spartacus slave revolt is a great idea! With a happier ending this time.

Elan knows Haley very well, that's how he realized she helped them, I think.

[zimmerwald1915]

Ah, if only V still had Familicide.... imagine taking out (theoretically) a quarter of the red dragons too.

Although since the red dragon in question either doesn't yet have access to spells, she's probably fairly susceptible to disintegrate.
On the other hand, blubber should give some kind of bonus to Fortitude saves :smallamused:

[MarkusWolfe]

I'm waiting for the linear guild to pop in out of nowhere and an epic 3 way duel to take place between Elan, Nale and Tarquin.

I don't really see how Elan can win this on his own without plot aid. He's a mid level bard, so he's got only d8 hitdice, his default attack bonus is meh and he's only good until he runs out of witty comments. He's got light armor and a rapier, so low AC and low damage. And he hasn't buffed himself, nor is it likely that he'll get the opportunity to do so.

Tarquin on the other hand is probably an epic level fighter. I don't care what you all think of 'liquification': if he kills everyone in the room and boils them, that's liquefying them without using magic. Now, he seems a fairly intelligent fighter, and an intelligent fighter can do well with certain feats, especially if he's got access to Complete Warrior. He's got d10 hitdice, high attack bonuses and no means of loosing these advantages. He appears to have heavy armor, and I don't remember what weapon we saw him with, but it was one of the nastier ones, so high AC and high damage.

Good luck, Elan. You may need it.

[RoninAngel]

I like this comic. The characterization of Tarquin is really great and I like how even though he's an awful person, he's still really likable. :smallsmile: He's just a lovable DAD... who, instead of elaborate Christmas lights and decorations puts up... elaborate displays of burning... human... beings... :smalleek:

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm waiting for the linear guild to pop in out of nowhere and an epic 3 way duel to take place between Elan, Nale and Tarquin.

:sabine: What's that you say?


Tarquin on the other hand is probably an epic level fighter.
I seriously doubt Tarquin's epic. Deliberately avoiding "mucking around in dungeons until we die" is not the way to level up. As for fighter...we've got no evidence either way.

[snikrept]

Tarquin is so going to mop the floor with him, unless someone intervenes.


I'm concerned by what Tarquin meant by "Liquify." I had been assuming he was a fighter, but liquify doesn't seem like the way a fighter would describe how he kills someone. I can't picture him being a sorcerer or wizard, and flashback panels showing in him earlier comics all implied a melee class. Any chance he's a bard? Do they even get access to strong enough spells to melt people? What about a prestige class, like eldridge knight or something?
After all his own pointed refernces, if Tarquin can't throw something resembling sith lightning I'll be disappointed.:smallbiggrin:

[tcrudisi]

I don't really see how Elan can win this on his own without plot aid. He's a mid level bard, so he's got only d8 hitdice, his default attack bonus is meh and he's only good until he runs out of witty comments. He's got light armor and a rapier, so low AC and low damage. And he hasn't buffed himself, nor is it likely that he'll get the opportunity to do so.

Tarquin on the other hand is probably an epic level fighter. ... Now, he seems a fairly intelligent fighter, and an intelligent fighter can do well with certain feats, especially if he's got access to Complete Warrior. He's got d10 hitdice, high attack bonuses and no means of loosing these advantages. He appears to have heavy armor, and I don't remember what weapon we saw him with, but it was one of the nastier ones, so high AC and high damage.

Good luck, Elan. You may need it.


I seriously doubt Tarquin's epic. Deliberately avoiding "mucking around in dungeons until we die" is not the way to level up. As for fighter...we've got no evidence either way.

Elan can cast 5th level Bard spells (Mass Cure Light Wounds). That puts him up to, what 14th? level + 1 for Dashing Swordsman. He's around 15th level. That is hardly what I'd call "mid-level" my friend. No, Elan is high level.

His father? As Zimmerwald said, it's doubtful that he's epic. Even assuming that he's close (let's say 18, though I personally think he's 15-16), that's only 3 levels on Elan. Three levels which I am assuming are from a non-casting class. Armor and a big weapon do not mean anything if Elan has been practicing his illusions.

[gooddragon1]

On a rooftop with a railing. OSHA (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoOSHACompliance) might approve of this.

[Callista]

Elan screws up once again. :smallannoyed:

Tarquin may be evil, but he represents the best chance at long-term peace and stability for the constantly warring human empires. Deposing and killing him isn't going to do anything except spark further bloodshed.
Elan seriously needs to think about the consequences of his actions before he jumps in headfirst like he always does, for pete's sake.

Here's hoping Tarquin wins, I honestly like him far better than Elan as a character....you're Lawful Neutral, aren't you?

Seriously, stability is no good if it comes at the cost of oppression. Don't get me wrong; stability is great. An orderly society is probably the best place for a person to live. But at least if you have chaos, things can change for the better.

[the_tick_rules]

This will be dramatic.

[Dr.Epic]

Tarquin knows V can't teleport. Ideas about how he'll use it against the Order?

[Porthos]

By the way, Tarquin might have made an error, once again assuming that Elan knows more about the other characters than he does. Elan's panicking and such does not necessarily mean that V cannot cast teleport, but Tarquin might think this is the case based on Elan's returning to the fight. But we know that what Elan thinks is so is not necessarily so.

But we do know that (non Darth) V can't cast Teleport. :smallconfused:

[warmachine]

So, Tarquin, in Neitzsche-like fashion, claims to be beyond good and evil. I would agree with him except for two big reasons. First, good and evil are fundamental aspects of the natural laws of D&D and OotS. Second, his plan only works through fear of conquest. When it reaches its conclusion, the conquests stop and the nations fight each other all over again, meaning the plan achieves the opposite of what it claims to achieve. Tarquin is not a Neitzschen superman, he is a fool.

[zimmerwald1915]

Elan can cast 5th level Bard spells (Mass Cure Light Wounds). That puts him up to, what 14th? level + 1 for Dashing Swordsman. He's around 15th level. That is hardly what I'd call "mid-level" my friend. No, Elan is high level.
Bards get fifth-level spells at 13th level, which means that at least Elan's 13 Bard/1 Dashing Swordsman. The spells we know he knows include: Animate Rope, Disguise Self, Greater Dispel Magic, Lesser Confusion, Major Image, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Mending, Neutralize Poison, Prestidigitation, and Silent Image. Of these, Lesser Confusion, Major Image, and possibly Silent Image would be of use in this fight against Tarquin. And possibly Greater Dispel Magic, if Malack buffs Tarquin in the morning. Elan mostly uses his magic when he remembers it or is reminded of it, and tends to spend combats punning (Azure City, Kubota, slavers). The trouble is that there's nobody around to remind him of his magic (well, there's Haley, but there's a flight of stairs and some armed guards in between her and Elan/Tarquin), he'll probably be too hard pressed by Tarquin to devote the mental energy to remembering his magic, and even if he does he's not likely to come up with something effective (he tends to "panic" in situations like this: against Thog in the first LG fight, while running away from the Orcs, though admittedly these worked due to flukes).


His father? As Zimmerwald said, it's doubtful that he's epic. Even assuming that he's close (let's say 18, though I personally think he's 15-16), that's only 3 levels on Elan. Three levels which I am assuming are from a non-casting class. Armor and a big weapon do not mean anything if Elan has been practicing his illusions.
In all probability, this fight will not be decisive. Elan has a great number of resources but doesn't use them all that well, and those he uses the best and most often will be the least effective ones here (the puns). Tarquin has an indeterminate number of resources and can use them to an indeterminate extent. We'll see.

[Warder]

I sincerely think many of you are overanalyzing the mechanical side to this fight - I think it's pretty clear that this is not a battle of statistics, but of tropes and clichés!

[silvadel]

I liked "Note to self -- Mage can not cast teleport." That one is a huge piece of information about OOTS and he got that information on purpose by seeing if elan would teleport out to save them.

As for the duel. That is the only fairish way to fight Tarquin. I doubt he would call the guards or bring in the cleric on a rooftop duel. It is just to genre breaking.

[brionl]

Or he just had a really big blender he'd been waiting to try out. Why make things complicated?

Blade Cuisinart.

That is a recipe for one seriously evil omelette though.

[zimmerwald1915]

That is a recipe for one seriously evil omelette though.
There is no omelet, citizen.

[fluffybunny]

Gotta hand it to Gen. Tarquin.

His son is trying to kill him and he replies with:
"On a rooftop no less. Exquisite."

He's is just pure class!

[ibiwan]

Apologies, but that's not right either.

*Cues up Duel of the Fates*

You all have your Star Wars references correct, but are utterly lacking a proper flair for the dramatic.

*smashes the mp3 player and lowers the needle on Aeris' Theme*

[Eiremauve]

*Begins playing O Fortuna*

My college's chorus sang this, it was such fun to do!


You're doing it wrong

*Anakin's theme begin's playing*


Apologies, but that's not right either.

*Cues up Duel of the Fates*

How about One-winged Angel? Appropriate for dramatic, high up epic fights!

[homersolo]

I keep on thinking about the end of this fight:

How many months usually last a kingdom there? A year? And they just have a parade for their first year... Is Tarquin planning to bring the Empire of Blood through an epic fight with his own son?

I think this is exactly what is going on.
Think about it. Each nation lasts a little while and then a new leader is put in. For a new leader to be put in, the old one needs to go out. What better person to set up for the overthrow of the government than a group of outsiders that can cast under any light the government controlled media puts out? Tarquin has already said he has big plans for Elan, Tarquin has kept the queen away from an adviser who has something important to tell her (which I'm guessing Tarquin already knows anyways - though I am guessing it may have to do with Tarquin or V (familicide news?)), Tarquin considered one year for Tyrannia a long time, etc. The capper is the plan doesn't require Elan to be there very long. Remember Tarquin said go do your thing and then come back. Whatever Elan needed to do, it could be done quickly and with Elan disappearing for a while.

[sihnfahl]

How about One-winged Angel? Appropriate for dramatic, high up epic fights!
Meh, have to stick with the SW theme.

I mean, there are a lot of good fight songs, even if the source needs work. B13A, anyone?

[Rakarth]

"Oh yeah. This? This thing right here? This is gonna be fun."
- Belkar Bitterleaf, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0063.html

[Vectner]

And so it has come to this . . .

[Sylthia]

I think Tarquin will defeat Elan, but let him escape pretty easily.
For him it's not whether you are good or evil, but how well you play your part. He'll still likely hold a soft-spot for Elan. He's going about being the good guy in the right way, whereas Nale went about being the scheming tyrant-in-the-wings the wrong way.

[Katrover_Swatroad]

Yes! YES! Elan comes to his senses!

[Thoughtbot360]

"You're just like Kubota, or Xykon .....or NALE!"

"Now thats uncalled for, young man."

Man has a point. I wouldn't compare cruel tyrants that employ torturous death in even just a stupid sign for their son's welcoming party with Nale of all people.

That's just mean.:wink:

[kojar]

...This battle started earlier then what I imagined.

[Blaznak]

Seriously.... great strip. Nice job!

[Turalisj]

How about One-winged Angel? Appropriate for dramatic, high up epic fights!

Starwars Themes > Anything written/performed by Yoko Kano > Final Fantasy Themes

[werik]

Awesome comic! Go Elan!

[Rodimal]

OH HELL YEAH!!!! It's about damned time!

Unfortunately Elan is soooo gonna loose.......this time.



Out

[HalfTangible]

"Oh yeah. This? This thing right here? This is gonna be fun."
- Belkar Bitterleaf, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0063.html

Oh my god...

THOG CAN PRONOUNCE 'RELUCTANTLY'! :eek: I went to the next one

There's no way Tarquin's going down this quick. Even if he dies, some other part of his plan is gonna come forward and screw Elan and the OotS over.

[tcrudisi]

Elan mostly uses his magic when he remembers it or is reminded of it, and tends to spend combats punning (Azure City, Kubota, slavers). The trouble is that there's nobody around to remind him of his magic (well, there's Haley, but there's a flight of stairs and some armed guards in between her and Elan/Tarquin), he'll probably be too hard pressed by Tarquin to devote the mental energy to remembering his magic, and even if he does he's not likely to come up with something effective (he tends to "panic" in situations like this: against Thog in the first LG fight, while running away from the Orcs, though admittedly these worked due to flukes).

Exactly! This story arch has been Elan's (there's an argument to be made that it will soon be Haley's, imo). As such, I'm expecting this, the most recent strips and the next few, to be his character development. In the past, he's been the bumbling idiot in combat. Then he got an upgrade and became punny. But now? This is when he shines. He may never do it again, but this is his moment. This is his time. This is his madness. THIS IS HIS SPARTA!


In all probability, this fight will not be decisive. Elan has a great number of resources but doesn't use them all that well, and those he uses the best and most often will be the least effective ones here (the puns). Tarquin has an indeterminate number of resources and can use them to an indeterminate extent. We'll see.

I agree. And I am very excited about it!

[The MunchKING]

I'm just sayin, this is a totally possible possiblity. I could happen, he did fly away with sabine and Thog. I think it would be cool if that happened.

He went on to the next gate (if you beleave him).

[The MunchKING]

Well, liquefying someone for being improper towards a woman isn't uncalled for.

I guess he's still a Complete Monster though.

Liquifing one person is.

Liquifing ALL the men is just over-the-top.

[Janmorel]

If Julio has to pull an Obi-Wan, now would be the thematically-appropriate time to do so.

[MPG]

I think Tarquin knew all along about Elan being good aligned. Back in strip 724 right after they meet, "Look at you! What are you, a protagonist? I'm so proud! Have you thwarted any villains yet?" http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0724.html
Also Tarquin believes Elan is the leader of his adventuring party (strip 758 first text box), so he doesn’t know everything about the OoTS.

But anyway. This was an amazing setup for the climactic father and son dual. As much as I would love to predict a winner, this comic has surprised me before.
I think Haley will have the worlds biggest "I told you so" when this is all over.

[Porthos]

He went on to the next gate (if you beleave him).

Only Roy got the exact (and it turns out innaccurate) coordinates for Girard's Gate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0505.html) But Nale would know that Girard's Gate is somewhere on the Western Continent.

And since he had a head start of a few months for searching, who knows how successful he's been.

[The MunchKING]

In a straight fight there is no way Elan can beat Tarquin. Mid level bard vs high level fighter? Not happening.

Now, if the bard used his abilities and spells in an intelligent way, using spells like mirror image to help avoid direct attacks, maybe.

"Grease" and watch Tarkin go flying down those stairs.

Bards got grease right?

[The MunchKING]

First, hasn't Elan seen V use teleport when V moved the entire fleet?

He had already flown off with Durkon by that point.

[Felixc-91]

well, i guess that puts an end to the "maybe they were already dead" argument

[rewinn]

"You're just like Kubota, or Xykon .....or NALE!"

"Now thats uncalled for, young man."

Man has a point. I wouldn't compare cruel tyrants that employ torturous death in even just a stupid sign for their son's welcoming party with Nale of all people.

That puzzled me too, until I realized what Nale means to Elan: betrayal.

Nale is evil, yes but more to the point, Nale took advantage of Elan's good nature to make Elan like him ... just as Tarquin did.

Xykon was straight-up evil from the start, and even Kubota didn't betray Elan.

[Porthos]

He had already flown off with Durkon by that point.

Elan got back to the fleet somehow. :smallwink:

Still, V did mention that is was a one time deal (at least I think he did). So in this case, Elan managed to make his Remember (Something Suitably Dramatic) check. :smallbiggrin:

[Yendor]

Man has a point. I wouldn't compare cruel tyrants that employ torturous death in even just a stupid sign for their son's welcoming party with Nale of all people.

Nale committed dozens of murders as part of a plot to frame Elan and then kill all his friends, all ultimately because Elan wanted to stay with Roy rather than help him. No, I think Elan's on the money there.

[krossbow]

Note to self: elf cannot cast teleport.



BRILLIANT! :smallbiggrin:



BTW, anyone else think this is going to end up with elan having his hand chopped off and falling off the roof?

[Blackcloak]

fourth row, second panel.
Thats the EXACT same pose Tarquin uses many places, including comic 757, second row, 2nd panel

[snikrept]

If Julio has to pull an Obi-Wan, now would be the thematically-appropriate time to do so.

LOL. I forgot about that.

[rman]

They are on top of the viewing platform. Her majesty is up there as well. This is a plot to get the dragon killed. Tarqin is probably expecting Elan and company to flee after the deed, allowing the next generation kingdom to be established, possibly using some unwitting soon-to-be-ex-gladiator as the new front man. Also a great opportunity for son and father to do an epically dramatic "I'll get you next time" scene. With Tarquin giving the clue to Elan to find Girard so Elan can get more experience for their next meeting.

Recall that the reptilian ambassador is attempting to communicate with the queen. This is possibly an attempt to warn the queen.

In any case great story however it turns out.

[DarthMcBob]

Tarquin sure seems confident. I wonder what he knows that Elan doesn't...

(OK, probably a lot, but still)

[Ender Wigin]

Only Roy got the exact (and it turns out innaccurate) coordinates for Girard's Gate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0505.html) But Nale would know that Girard's Gate is somewhere on the Western Continent.

And since he had a head start of a few months for searching, who knows how successful he's been.

Have three days passed yet? Cause I was hoping we would get to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0727.html) and learn where Gizard is by now.

[RedCloakLives!]

This whole arc is, I think, the Giant's best work to date. Just brilliantly executed at every stage. Bravo, Giant :smallsmile:

Yes, particularly 758 and 759; the intercutting scenes, used to achieve multiple effects simultaneously! Both humorous, and weaving several plot strands together to a climax.

And now Elan ... finally ... puts 2 and 2 together on his own for the first time in the comic in a concurrent character development climax; and furthermore, no one is there to help him. Drama! Excitement!

Quality is worth the wait.

[Turalisj]

Yes, particularly 758 and 759; the intercutting scenes, used to achieve multiple effects simultaneously! Both humorous, and weaving several plot strands together to a climax.

And now Elan ... finally ... puts 2 and 2 together on his own for the first time in the comic in a concurrent character development climax; and furthermore, no one is there to help him. Drama! Excitement!

Quality is worth the wait.

I think Elan has been putting points into Intelligence at every 4th level...

[Jay R]

... because one way or another, the destiny of this nation is in your hands! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0751.html)

Tarquin has a plan, and it's working. I assume he's decided to get rid of the empress, and set up a new ruler.

I'm not convinced the following is all true, but it mostly seems reasonable.

Tarquin just set up an elaborate display to find out how Good Elan is, and whether or not V could teleport. Why? He previously determined that the OotS will risk their own lives to save each other (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html). Again, why?

Scenario A: If Elan is not good, Tarquin will convince him to slay the red dragon and take over, with Tarquin as the continuing power behind the throne. The destiny of this nation is in Elan's hands, and Tarquin wins.

Scenario B: Party is Good, but too powerful. Elan gets V & Haley, they teleport to rescue the slaves, and escort the slaves out of the empire. Tarquin gets rid of powerful Good party in his empire, and they go on to Girard's Gate, which is good for the empire in ways we don't know. The destiny of this nation is in Elan's hands, and Tarquin wins.

Scenario C (the one that is actually playing out): Party is good, but not powerful enough to teleport. Teleport enables the party to escape imprisonment. The plan assumed that if they could not teleport, and Elan is in fact good, he would attack Tarquin.

Tarquin wins fight, is imprisoned and put on trial, where he will receive the death penalty, in the name of the Empress.

Tarquin genially points out to Haley and V. that Elan will die unless the Empress is slain. He enables them to free Elan, they slay the empress, and a new ruler is brought in, with Tarquin as the power behind the throne. The destiny of this nation is in Elan's hands, and Tarquin wins.

One way or another, the destiny of this nation is in Elan's hands. And Tarquin wins.

[Jay R]

Second, why is everyone thinking that Elan is outmatched? Elan is a high-level bard. His father is (most likely) a high level Fighter (or melee type). Elan should be able to apply his magic properly and win the day. Now this is the part where everyone goes, "But it's Elan!" And that's my point. This is the opportunity for Elan to step up and have some real character development. He will win this fight, he will win it without any assistance, and it will be no less than epic. I fully expect even V to have strong words of praise for Elan when this is over.

I think I agree with you that Elan is a Neville Longbottom. But I'm not convinced that this is book seven yet.

[Jay R]

Have three days passed yet? Cause I was hoping we would get to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0727.html) and learn where Gizard is by now.

The festival isn't over yet; we just had the parade, and the hillside lightshow is still in full swing (despite the fact that the lower lights in the "E" went out early).

[Geno9999]

Yay! Prelude into a epic fight on the rooftops!

[cho_j]

He's always smiling in the last panel. It's one of the things that makes him awesome.

Ha! I hadn't noticed! That DOES make him more awesome. Evil, sure, but awesome.

So, basically, when I finished reading this strip I squealed and flailed about like a squid on acid. Thankfully I was alone, or my floor would think I was even crazier. (I have read OotS updates in the common room before... none of my fellow nerds were around, sadly.) I'm going to be looking for excuses to say "exquisite" for days...

[mistformsquirrl]

So perfect, so perfect... <T_T> bwahaha...

Exquisite indeed!

[Swordpriest]

Although I'm in no hurry to get to the end of the story, like some people seem to be, I'd have to say that this arc has been pretty bland and forgettable ....

.... until now. Things are hotting up (literally and figuratively) -- keep it coming, and bravo!!!! :smallsmile:

[Gift Jeraff]

Calling it: Haley will be imprisoned with Gannji and Enor and not Roy, Belkar, Ian, and Geoff. Seeing his baby fighting will cause Ian to get into the arena. Elan will be a special prisoner of Tarquin's. Something special is saved for spellcasters (fed to the Empress?).

Durkon's papers will run out -> Malack will assure him that he can get them renewed -> Durkon will see that Malack is trustworthy (or simply see that he is not in a much worse situation if Malack betrays him) and tell the truth about his relationship to Elan/Haley/V/2 other friends in prison -> the two will hatch a scheme to free the Order.

Blackwing will avoid capture and bring the bad news regarding V to Durkon, and he will realize that he is not an illusion.

[Ted The Bug]

Have three days passed yet? Cause I was hoping we would get to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0727.html) and learn where Gizard is by now.

I'm not sure that Tarquin will be very eager to follow through on that after his son, you know, challenged him to a duel.

[Faramir]

Is it wrong that I really like Tarquin right now?

As a character of course.

[Red XIV]

Does anyone besides me get a really bad feeling that nale is going to appear right in the middle of this fight and perhaps:
1. Help Elan defeat their oppresive father
2. Help Tarquin defeat his rebelious brother
3. Say: "Screw it" and form a side of his own
I'm just sayin, this is a totally possible possiblity. I could happen, he did fly away with sabine and Thog. I think it would be cool if that happened.
There's also the fact that the IFCC was last seen indicating that they'd direct the Linear Guild into this general area.

[AlfredAmeoba]

10 bucks says Elan is about to lose a hand.

[Sengoku]

10 bucks says Elan is about to lose a hand.

No bet...

Though I think Tarquin, knowing everything from the very beginning about Elan, might just be trying to 'corrupt' him...trying to make him see things the way he does...maybe he thinks he can do what he could not do with Nale, and become a father proud of his son.

I mean: it's not like Tarquin is afraid of anything going differently from what he planned, he does not look like someone who thinks he's about to die.

Maybe he will spare Elan and show him that no matter how much his son thinks his dad is evil, when his dad spares him he'll have more trouble calling him 'evil'.

The only thing I agree with Tarquin's bashers on this forum is that he looks like someone who likes to make others thinks like he does, and prove he's right, with his plans being fulfilled, his desires made reality.

He might be missing the warmth of a son approving him...

[Name_Here]

And Tarquin continues to impress. Really the love of dramatic tropes, the easy going nature of his entire spiels and just the unashamed evil of the man makes me love him as a character and as a villain.

[Adeptus]

Go Elan! Fight the Power! :elan:

[Swordpriest]

And Tarquin continues to impress. Really the love of dramatic tropes, the easy going nature of his entire spiels and just the unashamed evil of the man makes me love him as a character and as a villain.

I can't really see how anything about him is impressive -- vile, certainly, but impressive? Not so much.

Ah well, some like apples, some like inions;
Different folks has different 'pinions.

[MrRigger]

Just realized, if the Star Wars references continue, and Elan does indeed lose a hand, he won't be able to play his chosen bardic item, the lute, until he can get it magically regenerated. Don't know if this would come up, but I felt it needed to be mentioned.

MrRigger

[Turalisj]

I can't really see how anything about him is impressive -- vile, certainly, but impressive? Not so much.

Ah well, some like apples, some like inions;
Different folks has different 'pinions.

He is able to be charismatic and likable while being completely, irredeemably Evil. With a capital E.

[Sinfonian]

Just realized, if the Star Wars references continue, and Elan does indeed lose a hand, he won't be able to play his chosen bardic item, the lute, until he can get it magically regenerated. Don't know if this would come up, but I felt it needed to be mentioned.

MrRigger
It's not a bad point, but I believe Elan is already prepared for such a contingency (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html).

[Turalisj]

It's not a bad point, but I believe Elan is already prepared for such a contingency (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html).

I didn't know Roy had done a cross-genre into Call of Cthulhu....

[Yendor]

Just realized, if the Star Wars references continue, and Elan does indeed lose a hand, he won't be able to play his chosen bardic item, the lute, until he can get it magically regenerated.

Wherever will he find a cleric high level enough to do that?

[RaggedAngel]

Just remember; Elan gets a happy ending.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html

He may get a happy ending with one less hand and a dead father, but I don't think that's what the oracle meant. I think that, in the end, Elan is the only character that truely has plot armor; as a Bard, he deserves it. Whether or not that plot armor extends to his family remains to be seen.

[HPV]

Great update, has prompted my first post in over a year :)

FWIW, this is how I see things working in the near future:

Elan can not win against Tarquin in their first confrontation, they're both too much into style and tropes, and the naive but brave young hero never beats the villain on the first confrontation, especially if he's said villains son.

However, Tarquin clearly has plans for Elan, and knows (guesses?) that he's a good guy ("Have you defeated many villains") and so has equally clearly been trying to get a reaction out of Elan, his latest gesture of "fatherly devotion" is just the straw that's broken the camel's back.

The fact that V's inability to teleport is significant could be a sign that Tarquin's plan involves capturing the known members of the OotS; it's a bugger to imprison people who know teleport, or who have friends who know the spell.

Add to this the fact that we've been fed enough info to believe that Tarquin is quite possibly up for replacing the empress -she's been around too long.

Now, in terms of fantasy tropes what could be more classic than the brave hero rescuing the damsel (Hayley?) in distress from an evil dragon?

I see the known members of the OotS getting captured as a result of this present confrontation, but it being part of Tarquin's plans that during a ritual sacrifice of Hayley Elan will defeat the Empress and thus leave the way open for a new ruler to emerge (though not Elan or other OotS members as, having killed the Empress, they'll be forced to flee the country.)

If anything I'm wondering if Tarquin might have overestimated Elan's abilities and be forced at a crux moment to nudge the dice in his favour in some way.

However Roy, Belkar and Hayley's family in the gladiator pits might be wild cards which Tarquin hasn't figured on, and will probably figure in the OotS's escape from this predicament.

I'm also mindful that Belkar's year must nearly be up by now, and that we may be approaching his final moment of awesome, or that Hayley's dad dying in any rescue attempt would be suitably dramatic.

Just some wild speculation, even if I'm late to the thread :)

[Gd8908]

PUN HIM TO DEATH, ELAN!!!:smallbiggrin: And why does the guy above me keep spelling Haley wrong?

[HPV]

PUN HIM TO DEATH, ELAN!!!:smallbiggrin: And why does the guy above me keep spelling Haley wrong?
Erm, cos it's a common spelling of the name & I have a life beyond OotS? Also, maybe cos I'm a little drunk, but mainly cos I don't care enough about spellings of character names, so long as everyone knows who I mean.
Still, thanks for the spell checking service, although I should warn you my F7 key is getting a little jealous! :smalltongue:

Anyway, you're missing the main point of my post: Elan saving Hayley :smalltongue: from a frickin' dragon! It screams drama and cliche (sorry forgot the accent!) of the sort which both Elan and Tarquin would totallly buy into IMO. :smallcool:

[Shatteredtower]

This is a great improvement over the last book.

Let's not be too sure about Tarquin's combat superiority. He may have dedicated a lot of feats and other advantages to boost his abilities as a leader and manipulator, rather than those that boost individual fighting prowess.

[DZ-Battra]

The fight as a whole would be very fitting if it ended with Tarquin falling to his death from the roof. Granted, that would shoot down whatever chance the Order had of getting a lead on Girard, but it would be quit in-character for the both of them.

And why do I get the feeling that Tarquin's noting "Elf cannot cast teleport" is going to come back later in the arc? Specifically, come back to hit the Order?

[Jay R]

The only thing I agree with Tarquin's bashers on this forum is that he looks like someone who likes to make others thinks like he does, and prove he's right, with his plans being fulfilled, his desires made reality.

He might be missing the warmth of a son approving him...

... and he recaptures slaves and burns them alive, and betrays people who turn to him for help, and commits mass murder, and forces women into marriage, and ....

[Cerlis]

My respect for Tarquin and his characterisation increases by the strip. Strangely, in my mind, taking into account that this is a stick comic and my already limited sense of empathy is dulled even further, the only REALLY reprehensible he's done is force unwilling young ladies to marry him for no real reason other than his own desires. The despotic empire and lack of respect for human life I can ignore in the context of a stick comic, and I practically endorse his means of pacifying the Western Continent and the whole "liquify all the guys in the tavern who grab your significant other's ass" thing we saw in this strip, my only beef with that last one being that she didn't want him to, for some reason (personally, I don't see how she *couldn't* want him to butcher them mercilessly. Maybe so that she could do it herself? :smallconfused:). Otherwise, it seems a perfectly rational reaction.



Rule of Poe?

----------------

P.S. Even though its evident that Nale probably didnt defeat Elan, that Nale is a cunning and evil villian, and Elan bested him in his first fight. "Deny deny the evil psychopathic egomaniaaaac". Since then he has gotten healing spells. learned to use his other spells, and taken feats abilities and levels that actually give him fighting ability. Which is how the second time he "easily" bested Nale. Elan is a good fighter, its just some encounters are Anti-his-build

[Sengoku]

... and he recaptures slaves and burns them alive, and betrays people who turn to him for help, and commits mass murder, and forces women into marriage, and ....

My point, exactly: all the above things are something he already did so many times -without very little to none bad consequences- that they do not satisfy him anymore.

Having a son proud of you? Not managed yet...must be tempting.

Maybe you misunderstood me because you thought I said he needs the warmth of a son because he needs love. I instead meant he needs something new to feed his own ego.

[Cerlis]

hmmm. someone here inspired me *didnt quote post at the time*

Its true that Elan dethroning tarquinn doesnt fall into Tarquinn's plan of getting a new ruler

But I believe Tarquinn was wanting Elan to dethrone the dragon. and Thus feed his plan.

Though i think Elan can win, he has a good chance of losing too.....

and "A terrorist who tried to Kill me, the general and then went into hiding and assassinated our queen." would completely feed his plan to make himself look the saint and the victim for any future ruler.

but maybe not

[Deliverance]

Now, in terms of fantasy tropes what could be more classic than the brave hero rescuing the damsel (Hayley?) in distress from an evil dragon?

I like your thinking. :smallsmile:

[Rob Roy]

Note to self, the elf can't teleport. Tarquin is rapidly becoming my favorite character.

Elan is so going to lose.


Now, in terms of fantasy tropes what could be more classic than the brave hero rescuing the damsel (Hayley?) in distress from an evil dragon?
Doing the same while leading an army, and while dramatic music play's in the background?:smallbiggrin:

[DougTheHead]

This is not good- remember how Tarquin deflected one of Elan's rapier thrusts with his finger? But I agree with the people who say it's not Tarquin's style to kill his son- the man has respect for genre convention, after all.

[Turalisj]

This is not good- remember how Tarquin deflected one of Elan's rapier thrusts with his finger? But I agree with the people who say it's not Tarquin's style to kill his son- the man has respect for genre convention, after all.

TARQUIN IS A MONK! :smalleek:

[DeltaEmil]

This is not good- remember how Tarquin deflected one of Elan's rapier thrusts with his finger? But I agree with the people who say it's not Tarquin's style to kill his son- the man has respect for genre convention, after all.Are you refering to that comic strip?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html

If so, Tarquin didn't deflect any rapier thrust, as Elan didn't attack him, only tried to threaten him.

[Lycan 01]

What's the Star Wars joke everyone is referring to? I feel dumb, because I didn't see one... :smallconfused:

[Turalisj]

Tarquin: Yes Elan, give in to the dark side! Feel the hate flow through you!
Elan: NoooooooOOOooooOOoooOOOOoOOooOOOoOO!

[Strife Warzeal]

What's the Star Wars joke everyone is referring to? I feel dumb, because I didn't see one... :smallconfused:

Cloud City, Bespin, Episode 5. Vader vs. Luke. That's my guess anyways.

[Rob Roy]

What's the Star Wars joke everyone is referring to? I feel dumb, because I didn't see one... :smallconfused:

I think it would be the fight between father and son in this strip, plus every other Star Wars reference in this arc.

[LordGabe]

Ok, duel against a tyrant on a rooftop... And the tyrant happens to be your long-lost Dad, among other things to free your Father-in-Law?

What sort of bonus does this gives to a Dashing Swordsman? I mean, talk about a Dramatic Scene!

And something tells me Elan is going to need each one of this bonuses! Sure, he has come a LONG way since the useless bard from the first strips, but he still isn't in Tarquin's league!

[Swordpriest]

Are you refering to that comic strip?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html

If so, Tarquin didn't deflect any rapier thrust, as Elan didn't attack him, only tried to threaten him.

Exactly. A level 1 mook can put their fingertip confidently on the tip of a stationary sword being held at the ready, which is what Tarquin did there. No deflection involved.