Necromancer with Mother Cyst

[FearlessGnome]

(D&D 3.5)

This is not for use in a campaign anytime soon, but looking over Libris Mortis I fell absolutely in love with the cyst spells.

What I could do is build a normal necromancer (Wizard or Cleric) and just tag the Mother Cyst feat on, but are there any particular builds where this could actually be a useful feat to have, or is the cyst series doomed forever to be one of those fancy ways of overkilling weaklings?

Since this is not for a campaign (yet), any kind of cheeze or questionable rules interpretation is allowed. All glory to the Mother Cyst.

[Vizzerdrix]

I remember seeing a feat. Spell focus: Evil was it? Anyway, I had a character that put cysts in rats then killed them. I was using a 3rd party spell that let me control a (as in, single) undead of up to 1/4 (or was it a full half?) a HD. I used them as effective spies this way.

If the party is willing, then you can keep tabs on anyone who will accept a cyst.

[Claudius Maximus]

Cyst up some bunny rabbits and use them as ammo for the higher level AoE cystplosion spells.

The requirement to have the cyst already is a huge drawback (if they fail a save to get the cyst, they could have just failed the same roll vs. a death spell or something), but opening with one of these might at least infect a few foes while doing decent damage.

[Camman1984]

I quite like this line, I had a red wizard that used it. None of the spells other than the first one allow a save, so I would use circle magic to raise the DC of that one rediculously high then once they are encysted you can pretty much do what you like. I would even use a chain rod to cast the encyst on multiple enemies (a -4 DC modifier is not that big a deal when your DC's are apporaching 40.

I specialised quite heavily in necromancy and found this absolutely broken.

[FearlessGnome]

If the party is willing, then you can keep tabs on anyone who will accept a cyst.

I'm sure that would be very popular.


Cyst up some bunny rabbits and use them as ammo for the higher level AoE cystplosion spells.

Yes, I can see it now... A beautiful garden, flowers, the sound of chirping birds, and oh, look, there's a bunny rabbit. What's this, it's coming right for us? Oh, hello little OH MY GOD!!! AAAH!!! WHAT IS THIS!?! WHAT'S HAPPENING TO MY ARM!?!


I quite like this line, I had a red wizard that used it. None of the spells other than the first one allow a save, so I would use circle magic to raise the DC of that one rediculously high then once they are encysted you can pretty much do what you like. I would even use a chain rod to cast the encyst on multiple enemies (a -4 DC modifier is not that big a deal when your DC's are apporaching 40.

I specialised quite heavily in necromancy and found this absolutely broken.

Hm. May be worth looking into. I imagine red wizards can use the same circle magic to boost actual Save or Die spells, though?
Also I didn't know you could chain a touch range spell.


If I ever DM my own campaign, a major bad guy is going to be a Necromancer with this feat. He's got it all: Bunny bombs, controlling non-evil NPCs with undead cancer in their brains... And of course, his familiar would have to be a skulking cyst.

[Tyger]

It gets really ugly with Persistent Spell as well. Mother Cyst, persisted all day is just plain mean. +8 to your casting stat, +8 NA and 100 hit points? yes please. :)

Overall, these aren't that powerful a line of spells, but they do rock for flavour in an evilish campaign.

[FearlessGnome]

It gets really ugly with Persistent Spell as well. Mother Cyst, persisted all day is just plain mean. +8 to your casting stat, +8 NA and 100 hit points? yes please. :)

Overall, these aren't that powerful a line of spells, but they do rock for flavour in an evilish campaign.

Or that, yes. That would be a good way to boost your non-cyst battle capabilities.

[Jack_Simth]

Also I didn't know you could chain a touch range spell.Add Reach Spell, and it works.

But yeah - Mother Cyst makes for a somewhat different caster. The 'target must have failed a save vs. a 2nd level spell' bit is painful for using them offensively, although there are ways around it (the aforementioned bunnies - infect a bunch of meaningless targets with Cysts, Dominate them, have them surround the actual target, and then put a rod-chained Necrotic Eruption... on the bunnies. Turn ten bunnies into ten bombs, each of which deals 1d6/caster level damage to the surrounding targets... and possibly infects them with Necrotic Cysts).

[Morithias]

It gets really ugly with Persistent Spell as well. Mother Cyst, persisted all day is just plain mean. +8 to your casting stat, +8 NA and 100 hit points? yes please. :)

Overall, these aren't that powerful a line of spells, but they do rock for flavour in an evilish campaign.

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the mother cyst feat does not have an evil alignment as a requirement.

And why yes, one time I did screw over my DM by destroying the big bad's soul with the level 9 spell after our first encounter (Epic Camp you know the drill), and yes my character was a good aligned caster.

[Tyger]

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the mother cyst feat does not have an evil alignment as a requirement.

And why yes, one time I did screw over my DM by destroying the big bad's soul with the level 9 spell after our first encounter (Epic Camp you know the drill), and yes my character was a good aligned caster.

True, the feat doesn't have an evil requirement, but the spells it grants are Necromancy [Evil] spells. Not that it matters to a good aligned caster who doesn't mind imbuing his targets with necrotic bits of flesh and then taking control of them / destroying them using said necrotic parasites. :smallwink:

[Jack_Simth]

It gets really ugly with Persistent Spell as well. Mother Cyst, persisted all day is just plain mean. +8 to your casting stat, +8 NA and 100 hit points? yes please. :)

Overall, these aren't that powerful a line of spells, but they do rock for flavour in an evilish campaign.
Persistent Necrotic Empowerment is an 14th level spell... 8th, if you're using Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) or similar. So you're getting a +8 Enhancement to three stats (one or two of which isn't going to be very useful for most builds), at a level where you're usually expected to have a +6 Enhancement item to your primary. And temporary HP can't be readily healed. So yeah, it's a fairly strong one.... but considering what you have to put into it to make it work, not as big as other options of the level.

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the mother cyst feat does not have an evil alignment as a requirement.

And why yes, one time I did screw over my DM by destroying the big bad's soul with the level 9 spell after our first encounter (Epic Camp you know the drill), and yes my character was a good aligned caster.
They are, however, [Evil] spells, so if you're a good-aligned Divine caster, you can't really use them (Good-aligned Arcane casters can make them work, though).

[Morithias]

Persistent Necrotic Empowerment is an 14th level spell... 8th, if you're using Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) or similar. So you're getting a +8 Enhancement to three stats (one or two of which isn't going to be very useful for most builds), at a level where you're usually expected to have a +6 Enhancement item to your primary. And temporary HP can't be readily healed. So yeah, it's a fairly strong one.... but considering what you have to put into it to make it work, not as big as other options of the level.

They are, however, [Evil] spells, so if you're a good-aligned Divine caster, you can't really use them (Good-aligned Arcane casters can make them work, though).

Archivest for the win.

[Hanuman]

I'm sure that would be very popular.
Use indirect spellcasting from cityscape and make it seem like the enemy did it-- if the other player even notices it being cast on them.

[Urpriest]

In the Mythic Exemplar Iron Chef one of the builds made extensive and interesting use of the Cyst spells on an Archivist chassis.

[Jothki]

Is there a limit on how many targets you can have cysted, or can you go ahead and cyst the entire population of a city that you control?

[Stryke]

In the Mythic Exemplar Iron Chef one of the builds made extensive and interesting use of the Cyst spells on an Archivist chassis.

would you ba able to link that please?

[FearlessGnome]

Is there a limit on how many targets you can have cysted, or can you go ahead and cyst the entire population of a city that you control?

You can cyst as many innocents as you'd like. The only limitation is how many people per day you can affect with the follow up spells (You'll run out of spell slots, and charges for your chain rod.):belkar:


Hanuman: I will look into that. Better make damn sure I pump up that bluff skill, though.

[Keinnicht]

Is there a limit on how many targets you can have cysted, or can you go ahead and cyst the entire population of a city that you control?

And suddenly those spells went from "pretty nasty" to "dear god that's horrible."

[Jack_Simth]

And suddenly those spells went from "pretty nasty" to "dear god that's horrible."
Eh, you can still only trigger so many at a time. But yeah, they're very icky spells.

[Urpriest]

would you ba able to link that please?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9208735&postcount=95

There ya go.

[golem1972]

One character I played, was the town doctor / vet. Used the heal skill a lot, kind of a frontier doctor. Played up the grandfatherly, doctor knows best bit. Used lots of phrases like "hold still, you'll mess up my concentration" and "don't resist, the magic won't work as well".

It took a while, but I trained the party to intentionally fail their saves when I cast spells on them ("you're pretty banged up, you'll need some serious curing. Will save for half."). Made for an especially awesome session when the Paladin gave in to his inner urgings (notes from DM), shanked the rogue, and ran off with the Macguffin. I do admit, wiping out the rest of the party with exploding orphans was a little over the top.

Yes, I was the BBEG. The DM and I got together before the game started.

[Tyger]

One character I played, was the town doctor / vet. Used the heal skill a lot, kind of a frontier doctor. Played up the grandfatherly, doctor knows best bit. Used lots of phrases like "hold still, you'll mess up my concentration" and "don't resist, the magic won't work as well".

It took a while, but I trained the party to intentionally fail their saves when I cast spells on them ("you're pretty banged up, you'll need some serious curing. Will save for half."). Made for an especially awesome session when the Paladin gave in to his inner urgings (notes from DM), shanked the rogue, and ran off with the Macguffin. I do admit, wiping out the rest of the party with exploding orphans was a little over the top.

Yes, I was the BBEG. The DM and I got together before the game started.

This is about a dozen different kinds of awesome.

[FearlessGnome]

This is about a dozen different kinds of awesome.

+1.

I wish I can one day take part in a campaign half that awesome.

[Analytica]

If I ever DM my own campaign, a major bad guy is going to be a Necromancer with this feat. He's got it all: Bunny bombs, controlling non-evil NPCs with undead cancer in their brains... And of course, his familiar would have to be a skulking cyst.

We did something like this. It was a Dark Sun game, with the PCs being some of the dead Sorcerer-Monarchs Mind Seeded into adventurer's in the present era. One of them had a little lizard familiar that they cysted. Then for some reason, the character decided to kill the thing. Can't recall why. In any case, the intestines walked away, then kept appearing here and there, bigger and scarier each time. It wanted to be with its mistress, in some strange way, and she wanted nothing to do with it. They "killed" it a few times, but it always came back. Good times. :smallbiggrin:

[Callos_DeTerran]

And suddenly those spells went from "pretty nasty" to "dear god that's horrible."

And suddenly those spells went from "pretty nasty" to "dear god that's horrible, I have to make a BBEG who uses that in their plan to control the people around their stronghold". :smallbiggrin:

[Scorpions__]

RealmsofChaos did an encysted homebrew a while back, including a prestige class just for using cysts. Here:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148883&highlight=mother+cyst





DM[F]R

[gorfnab]

Cyst up some bunny rabbits and use them as ammo for the higher level AoE cystplosion spells.

Chickens are far better and easier to get if you take the flaw Chicken Infested.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Chickens are far better and easier to get if you take the flaw Chicken Infested.

That requires you to be a commoner though. Think of the wasted level of no spells!

[imperialspectre]

Requires a Commoner 1 dip by RAW; much cheaper to just summon a bunch of rats.

And...stupid ninjas.

[golem1972]

Wouldn't it be easier to just encyst a chicken infested commoner into your entourage rather than take the level yourself?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Dread Necromancer is pretty much MADE for Mother Cyst. You've got all the Evil Ultra flavor of being a necromancer, in a solid Tier 3 class, and the spells are automatically put on your Spells Known, thus accessible at any time.

Can you Cyst undead? Mooks + Fell Drain + Fell Animate = plenty of mooks to Cyst for extra booms. Moreso if they also have some of the Corpsecrafter feats which blow up and do negative energy damage in a radius in addition.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Wouldn't it be easier to just encyst a chicken infested commoner into your entourage rather than take the level yourself?

See? There's thinking with portals cysts!

[gorfnab]

Wouldn't it be easier to just encyst a chicken infested commoner into your entourage rather than take the level yourself?
Mother Cyst + Leadership + Chicken Infested Commoner followers :biggrin: