View Full Version : Need help with Character Creation {3.5}

2010-11-23, 04:04 PM
Hello, everyone! I need a little help with my character sheet. I have this very fluffy idea for a multiverse destruction campaign involving my character being a totally epic evil warlord, bent on amassing a huge army and conquering the world. Good BBEG material. The problem is, I'm trying to find the crunch to fill it out, and that's where I need your help.

Campaign basics:
40th level gestalt
Divine rank 4 using Dicefreaks deity rules
13,400,000 gp starting wealth

What I have to far is a LE Paladin of Tyranny 40 as my left side, with leadership, epic leadership, and legendary commander. I need to figure out what to put on my right side, and what to pick for feats, salient abilities, etc. There are just a few things I'm looking for in my build:

No Casters. I've played enough of them recently, and am looking for a change.
Must be solid in melee combat.
Bonus points for epic-looking wings.

I'm open to all suggestions and homebrew for help with this. Thanks in advance! Post any questions you might have, and I'll do my best to answer.

2010-11-23, 04:16 PM
If it is not too much of a caster for you, you might be interested in binder. The epic vestiges are awesome and you get some charisma synergy.

Some Warblade or Crusader levels might be good and I have heard that Factotum mixes with almost anything.

If none of those classes fit, you can still look into a monstrous race with many templates.

Edit: As for Salient Divine Abilities I would suggest Alter Reality, Divine Inspiration, Divine Blast and Control Creatures.

2010-11-23, 04:59 PM
40th level gestalt and not a full caster? But Favored Soul gives you wings and would have great Cha synergy! *cries tears of optimization*

Or you can just buy a Feathered Wings Graft. They're relatively cheap.

40 levels in Paladin won't be all that useful. Your special mount progression will be fairly slow. The only other benefit high levels in Paladin give you at epic levels is letting you take Great Smite repeatedly for silly amounts of damage, but at ECL 40 you should be able to do hundreds of damage at will anyway.

But we can work with this. Take a level in Beastmaster (Complete Adventurer) on the other side of the gestalt. This gives you an animal companion at an effective Druid level equal to your Beastmaster level +3. Then take the feat Natural Bond, to make that Beastmaster level +6. Then take Devoted Tracker, which lets you designate the same creature as your special mount and animal companion. If your DM lets classes on both sides of the gestalt add to this simultaneously, you can get a ludicrously powerful companion. If not, your companion still has the features of a 40th-level paladin mount + a 46th-level Druid animal companion. It'll have +42 bonus HD, plus lots of other features. You could include 10 levels in Halfling Outrider (Complete Warrior), which progresses mounts and animal companions simultaneously, to instead get +52 bonus HD. And that's without putting much work into optimizing it.

Oh, and that's more HD than the Tarrasque has. You might be able to convince him to let you take the Tarrasque as your mount.

8 levels in Factotum and repeatedly taking Font of Inspiration are great for anything, as it lets you take lots of standard actions in a round.

20 levels in Warblade and/or Crusader would serve you very well. You might want to include other Tome of Battle PrCs as well. 10 levels in Eternal Blade is great if you're an elf, Bloodstorm Blade lets you do everything you can do in melee at range, Deepstone Sentinel would be good except that at ECL 40 everyone will be flying everywhere, and Ruby Knight Vindicator is completely amazing if you're a caster.

I'd consider taking five levels in Crinti Shadow Marauder to get Shadow Pounce, which lets you make a full attack after a teleport. Then take a high level in Swordsage and take all three of their teleportation maneuvers. This lets you make 3 full attacks, and move 150 feet, in a round.

Another option, less unique but very effective, is being a War Troll (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815b&page=6) and then taking 10 levels in Bone Knight (from Five Nations) and then 12 levels in whatever else looks interesting, probably Warblade. This basically makes you immune to everything in the world except acid. Including weapon damage. Cast Acid Immunity on yourself, wear at least one ring of Energy Immunity, and you'll be extremely difficult to kill.

2010-11-23, 05:01 PM
Just to let you know, the Dicefreaks diety rules are a little different than the original ones. All deities gets a nerfed version of Alter Reality for free. I can't post the link since the site is blocked at my school. Oh, I'm considering using a great wyrm red dragon as my companion/mount, but Tarrasque sounds fun too!

Edit: Looks like I was ninja'd with win!

2010-11-23, 05:11 PM
hexblade will give you some very solid cha synergy with arcane resistance. your debilitating aura will work great with the curse, and the dark companion alt class feature from PHB2. hex will also give you good will save and METTLE which will be great with your now very beefy fort and will saves.

you said no caster, but worlock, would roll right into whatever you have planned, with it's invocations and cha abilites. also, imagine charging in, with a huge smite, AND a hideous blow for another 20d6.

and of course, rogue. a bajillion skillpoints. and a bajillion sneak attack dice. if you get into a flank thats an extra 20d6 per hit. coupled wit ha few feats you can get even more. that kind of damage adds up quick with a full attack.

2010-11-23, 07:29 PM
More Supermount thoughts:
My math was off beforehand; I was writing as if Devoted Tracker let you add all mount and AC-progressing levels to both your mount and AC progression. However, that doesn't make the mount possibilities any less ludicrous, and I've found a couple ways to add more mount to your mount in case you don't have enough mount on your mount.

The first is to take Uncanny Trickster 2/ Legacy Champion 3 and use Fax's trick here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-56184.html), which you could use to effectively give yourself another 10 levels in Halfling Outrider in 5 levels. Or you could do UT 3/ LC 10 to get the 10 effective levels more legitimately.

The second is to take a Major Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) (I presume you'd want Devil), for another 3 effective levels in Halfling Outrider. (There's also the argument that Bloodlines progress every level-dependent class feature separately, in which case it would add an additional 3 (three effective levels in Paladin and three effective levels in Beastmaster), plus 3 additional effective levels for every class you have that progresses mount or animal companion (so you could take Cavalier 1, Wild Plains Outrider 1, plus perhaps other PrCs, to get more effective levels). But that's even more likely to make your DM throw books at you than using Legacy Champion and Uncanny Trickster to get 10 effective levels of animal companion and mount progression in 5 levels.

A reasonably allowable build might be:
Paladin 40// Ranger 4/ Beastmaster 2/ Halfling Outrider 10/ Bloodline 3/ Uncanny Trickster 3/ Legacy Champion 10/ Cavalier 5/ Wild Plains Outrider 3

With Devoted Tracker and Natural Bond, This ends up with a mount as Paladin 67 + an animal companion as Druid 36. If you start with a plain old warhorse, that gives it +50 hit dice. If your DM lets you apply your paladin levels to both sides of the gestalt for animal companion purposes, add another 16 hit dice.

EDIT: This is all with pretty solid rules interpretations, mind you; there's also the interpretation that the Beastmaster and Ranger animal companion sources are separate so you'd get another +20 effective levels (effective Halfling Outrider levels) to your animal companion, that Bloodline levels stack with each class as mentioned above (which, depending on semantics, could lead to an additional mount +12 levels [+3 Paladin, +3 Uncanny Trickster, +3 Legacy Champion, +3 Cavalier], animal companion +15 levels [+3 Ranger, +3 Beastmaster, +3 Uncanny Trickster, +3 Legacy Champion, +3 Wild Plains Outrider]), etc. And using Uncanny Trickster, Legacy Champion, and Bloodlines to progress each other leads to an ungodly mess with silly high numbers of virtual Halfling Outrider levels.

Also, I know this can be combined with the Dragon Cohort feat in Draconomicon, but I'm not really clear on how. However, your leadership score will probably be sufficiently high to get more or less any dragon you want, up to Leadership's limit of your HD. So if you can take a 40 HD advanced red dragon and then add +50 or +66 HD to it... that'll be fun.

Other than that, Hexblade 4 with Dark Companion, plus the Paladin of Tyranny's aura of despair, plus taking Bind Vestige (Focalor) can let you constantly inflict -6 to the saves of people around you.

2010-11-24, 12:13 AM
If you're really going the Charismatic leader route, you should definitely get this Epic Destiny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5691781&postcount=5).

2010-11-24, 09:23 AM
But, but, but... anything that's not a caster in epic just gets insta-perma-dead before their turn even begins! Epic Magic is that ridiculous.

2010-11-24, 06:38 PM
I'm running the Supermount idea by my DM now. Any other suggestions?

Dante & Vergil
2010-11-24, 07:39 PM
See if your DM will let you use our forum's Homebrewed Monster Races (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170469). They add a lot of flavor and a bunch of them have the wings you're looking for.

2010-11-24, 07:58 PM
Gestalt without full casters? Alright then.

Bard/Psi Warrior, with a large or larger base race.

OH YEAH? *leaps from airship and grows 2 size categories*

WELL TAKE THIS! *epic solo*

2010-11-24, 10:34 PM
Another option, less unique but very effective, is being a War Troll (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815b&page=6) and then taking 10 levels in Bone Knight (from Five Nations) and then 12 levels in whatever else looks interesting, probably Warblade. This basically makes you immune to everything in the world except acid. Including weapon damage. Cast Acid Immunity on yourself, wear at least one ring of Energy Immunity, and you'll be extremely difficult to kill.

Better yet, take Half Black Dragon (costs 3 more LA) for Extraordinary Acid Immunity, and reduce those levels in whatever else from 12 to 9. This also gives you bona fide Dragon Wings, which you can use to fly since Wartroll is Large size. Also see if you can sneak the Air Race (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Races_of_Air) Elemental Variant (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Elemental_Racial_Variants) of a War Troll to prevent death by all methods of suffocation. If not, use the Amphibious template from Stormwrack (War Trolls are Monstrous Humanoids rather than Giants and so they qualify) to keep yourself from drowning at the very least.

My Other Humble Suggestion which doesn't quite fit OP's requirements:

7 Nymph HD / 13 Paladin / Epic: 10 Walker in the Waste / 2 Swordsage / 1 Sorcerer / 7 Paladin // 7 Nymph LA / 5 Dry Lich LA / 28 Evolved Undead

Important Feats:
*Precocious Apprentice (for Sorcerer level 2 spells)
*Ascetic Mage (applying Swordsage Wis bonus to AC)
*Extra Favored Class: Paladin (if using multiclass penalty)

In the above schema, Paladin is replaceable with any other full BAB class (such as Crusader or Warblade), but you will probably want the first 2 levels at least for the Cha to saves.

Nymphs cast as Druids, and Druids qualify for Walker of the Wastes, as they can cast the 3 requisite spells from Sand/Thirst domain (Waste Strider, Dessication and Haboob). More importantly, Nymphs can apply their Cha bonus to AC and saves. And this stacks with the Swordsage/Ascetic Mage Cha bonus to AC and the Paladin bonus to Saves, so you can apply your Cha to AC and saves twice. Additionally, Dry Lich comes with Unholy Toughness, so you can apply your Cha bonus to bonus HP per HD as well. Obviously, you want to boost your Cha as much as possible.

28 Evolved Undead and Dry Lich gives you +58 to Cha on top of you base Cha score (or a bonus of AT LEAST +29, giving you +58 to Touch AC and Saves, on top of the +28 to Natural AC from Evolved Undead, and a whopping +1,160 HP from Unholy Toughness). Oh, and you also get undead immunities, fast Healing, and +56 to Strength, and 5 seperate phylacteries to regenerate yourself from if something ever does manage to kill you.

The only downside is that your BAB takes a small hit, from those early Nymph levels (although once you hit Epic levels, the BAB progression for all classes drops to 1/2, so we take the Walker in the Waste levels then). And watch out for water (although the Evolved Fast Healing mitigates this somewhat).

2010-11-24, 10:58 PM
20 Warblade/Crusader 20 on one half and Bard 30/War Chanter 10 on the other.

ToB is the only real thing that's going to come close to making you work with magic at high levels. Yes there is some overlap discipline wise between warblade and crusader but having all the maneuvers of Iron Heart, Devoted Spirit, White Raven, and Diamond Mind at max level is great. War Master's Charge from White Raven is sick with your own little personal army. Also White Raven Tactics gives your Blackguard buddy two turns in a single round.

Epic Bard is sweet. Pick up Dragonfire Inspiration from Dragon Magic to change all your plusses from Inspire Courage into d6's. I don't know how many that is at Bard 30 but I'm sure it's a lot. War Chanter though is my favorite part of this. It's capstone ability is a form of Bard song called Inspire Legion. It lets all allies in 60ft use the highest BaB of any ally in the effect instead of their own. You got Leadership with a bunch of little soldiers? Now they all get to share your 40 BaB instead of their own. You can also thanks to War Chanter sing this along with Inspire Courage w/ Dragonfire Inspiration. All of a sudden your lower level buddies with are now attacking with 40 BaB and and +5d6 on every attack without even adding feats/items that add to your Inspire Courage (Song of the Heart, Eberron Campaign Setting; there's a vest that adds +1 in the Magic Item Compendium as well.)