NFL stuff.

[An Enemy Spy]

This is a place to talk about you're favorite team, celebrate their wins, mourn their losses and bash their rivals.
Let's get the ball rolling with the Seahawks. I knew that they would get beat by the Saints, no biggie. It's a rebuilding year after all and I 'm actually impressed with how they're playing despite the adversity (the Oakland and New York games excluded obviously). Now we have to take on the Saints. When I saw that on the schedule early this season I was thinking "yeah! easy win!". How did they get so good all of a sudden? It boggles the mind. I am so glad we have the panthers after them. We need a break.

[CynicalAvocado]

i rather enjoyed watching romo go down.

[An Enemy Spy]

i rather enjoyed watching romo go down.

Me too. Hate the Cowboys. They think they're so good, despite the fact that they haven't done anything since the 90s.

[CynicalAvocado]

and dont even get me started on the patriots game. guy gets the ball, the sets it down on the field:smallconfused:

[An Enemy Spy]

and dont even get me started on the patriots game. guy gets the ball, the sets it down on the field:smallconfused:

Remember in the Superbowl when they went for it on 4th and 13 when they could have easily kicked a field goal? Why? It's because they were arrogant and they thought everything they did would always work because every other team is just a little slug to be stepped on. So glad the Giants won. Belichek (i know that's spelled wrong) has no class. Walking off the field before the game is over? What sportsmanship!

[ForzaFiori]

As a Panther's fan, i find myself wondering what the hell has happened this year. Every major talent has left, and now instead of hoping for them to win in the playoffs, I find myself hoping they'll lose so they get a good draft pick.

[Erloas]

I've been trying to decide exactly where the problems with Denver are centered. And I think its the coaching. Sure last night there were some missed tackles that lead to big plays but there were so many plays besides that where the play calling simply left people open. So many times it just seemed like there was no attempt to cover anyone that didn't go out at least 5 yards.
The lack of a run game is very clearly an issue too. I just don't think McDaniels has any idea how to do anything besides the "big passing plays." They've tossed in a few trick plays, but trick players tend to be big all or nothing sorts of things. Its like if they can't get down the field and score in 4 plays McDaniels runs out of ideas. And maybe its Orton, but I think its how the plays are designed, where it doesn't seem like the throws are designed to go anywhere but a WR or a dump of to the RB, it hardly seems like they even think about the TEs. Maybe thats why so many of the passes seem to be into double and triple coverage.
McDaniels just seems to have made the offense very one-dimensional, and not even just all passing (which it is), there doesn't seem to be a huge variety of passing either, its either play action (which no one is falling for) or shotgun.
Then there is Tebow, whom obviously has potential and is someone they really should be using more, but McDaniels runs maybe 2-4 plays with him, always back to back, and always the exact same play... well I guess they did let him throw one pass this year. And its not like they didn't have plenty of time in the last few weeks where there were a lot of meaningless plays at the end where they could have got him some good experience.

[Orzel]

No Nicks.
No Smith.
Still no O'Hara
Having to rely on Eli.
Pass me the tissues. It's happening again, Giants fans.

[An Enemy Spy]

No Nicks.
No Smith.
Still no O'Hara
Having to rely on Eli.
Pass me the tissues. It's happening again, Giants fans.

When he fumbled the ball without even being touched, I was on the floor laughing.

[PhoeKun]

When he fumbled the ball without even being touched, I was on the floor laughing.

When he did that, I was looking for something to throw at my tv and screaming, "You're the guy who cost me 19-0!?"

:smallsigh::smallfrown:

[An Enemy Spy]

When he did that, I was looking for something to throw at my tv and screaming, "You're the guy who cost me 19-0!?"

:smallsigh::smallfrown:

You a Pats fan?

[Orzel]

I threw my remote so hard, it cracked in half.
Eli, what the hell, man?!

[PhoeKun]

You a Pats fan?

I have been since 1990, when I was old enough to understand the game. I stuck with them through the bad times, entered the Belichick years, immediately braced myself for the worst when Beldsoe went down and was replaced by some "Brady" guy I'd never heard of, but then that was par for the course. Except that they proceeded to pound out win after win, putting together one of the most dominant stretches in NFL history, rewarding me for a lifetime of miserable fandom and being made fun of by Cowboys fans. And other fans.

So now everybody hates the Patriots and thinks I'm a bandwagon fan, especially because Girls Can't Like Sports so it must just be a ploy to get in on something popular, but nuts to it I will be a New England fan for life. :smalltongue:

I love the team this year. Love having Deion Branch back. Love having Brady look like Brady again. <3 Wes Welker. Love that Randy Moss was ditched before he imploded on us. And I love that this year, unlike last year, Peyton Manning didn't manage to drive back from being down 31-14 in the 4th quarter on us. These are the little signs you have to look for when hoping to put on another big playoff run.

Which I will hope for every year. Because part of being a sports fan is being greedy. There's a bunch of teams out there that really deserve their time in the sun. I just don't want it to come at the expense of mine. >.>

[An Enemy Spy]

I am so upset you got Deon Branch back.I guess Mike Williams is pretty good but man did I like Deon Branch.

[KuReshtin]

This year has been pretty frustrating for me as a fan, starting in Week 1 when the last play of the first half was a short dump-off pass to the right side, and instead of going down and be close in the scoreline coming out for the second half, the ball was stripped and returned for a TD.
Then getting beat by the Bears in Week 2. Then it got worse after that.

There's a lot of hate for the Cowboys out there, and people are very quick to point out the failings of the Cowboys because, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, they still feel that the Cowboys are a team of boasting Richards.

Personally, I don't see how the Cowboys talking before the season started about them hoping for a chance to be the first team in league history to go to, and hopefully win, the Super Bowl at their home stadium is any different from what a lot of other teams have done on the past.
And a whole lot of the pre-season predictions and praise didn't even originate from the Cowboys, but from the press.

Yes, they've underperformed this year, but they've had a couple of really good outings in the past few weeks, after Wade Philips got fired and with Kitna at the helm after the Giants knocked out Romo.

[KuReshtin]

Wooohoo!!! Thanksgiving Football!!!

Pats @ Lions
My prediction:
Pats 42
Lions 24

[AshDesert]

Wooohoo!!! Thanksgiving Football!!!

Pats @ Lions
My prediction:
Pats 42
Lions 24

Good call dude, 3 points off.

I'm a Packers fan, have been since I was 5 and started to get a grasp on the game. This has been a good season so far, and we managed to get two head coaches fired in a row:smallcool:. Although, to be fair, I think Favre is the one who got Childress fired (he's good at getting coaches fired).

NFC North is interesting this year, two teams that have been tied for first for something like 5 weeks straight, and two of the worst teams in the NFL. I'm convinced that Detroit (the city overall) is just cursed. High crime rate, no real economy to speak of anymore, and to cap it off their NFL team has been the laughing stock of the league for the last few decades.

[KuReshtin]

Man, this first quarter of play in the Dallas/N'Awlins game is painful to watch for me as a Cowboys fan.
17 conceeded points in the first 10:30 of the game.
Not good at all.

I sense a rout.

Saints 35
Cowboys 10

[Z3ro]

Good call dude, 3 points off.

I'm a Packers fan, have been since I was 5 and started to get a grasp on the game. This has been a good season so far, and we managed to get two head coaches fired in a row:smallcool:. Although, to be fair, I think Favre is the one who got Childress fired (he's good at getting coaches fired).

NFC North is interesting this year, two teams that have been tied for first for something like 5 weeks straight, and two of the worst teams in the NFL. I'm convinced that Detroit (the city overall) is just cursed. High crime rate, no real economy to speak of anymore, and to cap it off their NFL team has been the laughing stock of the league for the last few decades.

Bears fan here for as long as I can remember. I'm convinced the NFC North this year will come down to weak 17 in Green Bay. Should be a great end to a strange season so far. And yeah, Detroit's cursed.

[An Enemy Spy]

As a Seahawk fan, I love the NFC West. Easy to win it. It looks like the Hawks and Rams are gonna have a close one going down the stretch. Cards look to be dead in the water now.

[AshDesert]

Bears fan here for as long as I can remember. I'm convinced the NFC North this year will come down to weak 17 in Green Bay. Should be a great end to a strange season so far. And yeah, Detroit's cursed.

Looking at the Bears' and Packers' schedules for the rest of the year, probably. I love and hate these close seasons. They're fun to watch as an observer, terrible if you're a fan of one of the teams.

So, Turkey Day games. The Cowboys/Saints game was great, came down to the last 2 minutes, but in the end, the Saints pulled it out. My opinions on the Cowboys are less than favorable (it's mostly that I don't like Jerry Jones, not the team) so seeing them lose is always fun.:smallbiggrin:

[evil-frosty]

Life long bears fan here. I am personally amazed that the bears are winning but i am not complaining. The season is going to come down to the final game which will be awesome and nerve racking.

When the Lions had Barry Sanders they were good but one player makes a team not.(I am pretty sure this is right, but i could be wrong)

I was hoping for a bears/chiefs superbowl. One i am biased and want the bears to win and well it would be something different. i am tired of new england and indianpolis owning the AFC.

[The_JJ]

I've been trying to decide exactly where the problems with Denver are centered. And I think its the coaching. Sure last night there were some missed tackles that lead to big plays but there were so many plays besides that where the play calling simply left people open. So many times it just seemed like there was no attempt to cover anyone that didn't go out at least 5 yards.
The lack of a run game is very clearly an issue too. I just don't think McDaniels has any idea how to do anything besides the "big passing plays." They've tossed in a few trick plays, but trick players tend to be big all or nothing sorts of things. Its like if they can't get down the field and score in 4 plays McDaniels runs out of ideas. And maybe its Orton, but I think its how the plays are designed, where it doesn't seem like the throws are designed to go anywhere but a WR or a dump of to the RB, it hardly seems like they even think about the TEs. Maybe thats why so many of the passes seem to be into double and triple coverage.
McDaniels just seems to have made the offense very one-dimensional, and not even just all passing (which it is), there doesn't seem to be a huge variety of passing either, its either play action (which no one is falling for) or shotgun.
Then there is Tebow, whom obviously has potential and is someone they really should be using more, but McDaniels runs maybe 2-4 plays with him, always back to back, and always the exact same play... well I guess they did let him throw one pass this year. And its not like they didn't have plenty of time in the last few weeks where there were a lot of meaningless plays at the end where they could have got him some good experience.

God, tell me about it. Though we were slipping with Shanny as well. I'm watching Peyton Hillis churn out these huge plays and I'm like 'yo, he was our diamond in the rough.' Seriously, there hasn't been a coaching descision I really liked out there since we picked up Bailey. In hindsight Orton wasn't a bad trade, since it seems every time I flip over to the Bear's Cutler is throwing another pass to a lonely linebacker in an empty zone.

[An Enemy Spy]

Life long bears fan here. I am personally amazed that the bears are winning but i am not complaining. The season is going to come down to the final game which will be awesome and nerve racking.

When the Lions had Barry Sanders they were good but one player makes a team not.(I am pretty sure this is right, but i could be wrong)

I was hoping for a bears/chiefs superbowl. One i am biased and want the bears to win and well it would be something different. i am tired of new england and indianpolis owning the AFC.

I feel ya bro. That's why I like the NFC better. It's not always the same five teams that make it every single time.
AFC may have some of the more consistantly good teams but man, are they boring after a while.

[xPANCAKEx]

ok playgrounders

i'd like your own (hopefully unbiased) opinions on the Jags @ Giants game.

obviously with all the talk of the Giants being down two key WRs, and all the hype of mannings failings the hope is there for the continued jags sucess, but i'd like a reality check on this one

[An Enemy Spy]

ok playgrounders

i'd like your own (hopefully unbiased) opinions on the Jags @ Giants game.

obviously with all the talk of the Giants being down two key WRs, and all the hype of mannings failings the hope is there for the continued jags sucess, but i'd like a reality check on this one

Should be a good game. Frankly I'm amazed the Jags are at the top of the AFC South considering the competition. My money's on Jacksonville but it could go either way.

[xPANCAKEx]

its often quoted as being "the toughest division in the NFL" - the colts have slipped from being all conquering in recent years, and the titans and texans have always been contenders. I've always supported the jags in the knowledge of being the runt of the league, but its nice to see them sitting on top for a while, even though i know it may not last. Im not gunna be sitting here yelling "YEEEAH! WE'RE THE BEST" if the success carries on much further. It just feels like the jags are on a lucky streak right now

if their performance was more solid, i'd be more inclined to be a bit more of a boasting supporter, but its not

[An Enemy Spy]

I've always liked the Jags. They are so ignored by the media, it's depressing. And this is coming from a Seahawks fan.

[KuReshtin]

I like the Jags too.
Sure, I may be biased since any game the Giants lose is a good thing for a Cowboys fan as myself, but I also think the Jags have shown great resiliency in their last games.
Sure, they've been lucky as hell at times, such as the last play against Houston, but they are playing some good football at the moment.

I'm going to go with the Jags on this one.
It's going to be another close game, though.

As has been said, the Jags face a lot of problems with their location, being in a very small demographic area. However, their Team Teal has done a great job this past off season, getting people to renew season tickets. I have a friend in Jacksonville who have been very involved in that (His girlfriend is on a bunch of Jax highlight reels, BTW. She's the 'Scobee Section Girl'.) and as far as I know, they haven't had a single blackout this season, which is damn good work for them.

Edit: Gametime decision...
Titans defense @ Houston, or Browns defense against Miami. Which would you start in your fantasy team today?

[PhoeKun]

Edit: Gametime decision...
Titans defense @ Houston, or Browns defense against Miami. Which would you start in your fantasy team today?

Definitely the Browns against Miami, for the following reasons:

1) Miami's offense has been anemic this year even when they have all their players on the field. Houston can still put up pretty looking offensive stats en route to a loss.
2) The Browns are secretly a much better team than their record would indicate.
3) Tyler Thigpen.

That is all.

edit: Wait a second... Cleveland's playing Carolina. Well, same principle, I guess.

[An Enemy Spy]

We had better beat the Panthers next week if we want to stay ahead of the Rams. I am so pissed the the Broncos let them walk all over them.

[KuReshtin]

edit: Wait a second... Cleveland's playing Carolina. Well, same principle, I guess.

Yeah, I noticed that after the game had already started.
I don't know how I came to think the browns played the Dolphins.

Anyways, the decision was still the better of the two options.
Browns scored more fantasy points than the Titans.
I just wish I'd had the Texans defense. :smallfrown:

[An Enemy Spy]

Colts lose, Jags win. Am I detecting a shakeup in the AFC South?

[shadowxknight]

Colts lose, Jags win. Am I detecting a shakeup in the AFC South?

I have faith in Peyton and Co. With more players getting healthier, the team will become more consistent.

I still can't believe the Colts lost to the Jags earlier in the season. :smallsigh:

[KuReshtin]

Colts lose, Jags win. Am I detecting a shakeup in the AFC South?

Colts have no running game so Manning has to do everything himself. Opposing teams have realised this in the past few weeks, and that's why he's been picked 10 times in the past three weeks.

Even if Kitna had a less than stellar game himself last night, the Cowboys still won because of the pick-sixes thrown by Manning and the INT in OT.


I just saw that Josh McDaniels has been fired by Denver as well. Third head coach of the season, right? Philips in Dallas, Chilly in Minnesota and now McDaniels in Denver.

[AshDesert]

Colts have no running game so Manning has to do everything himself. Opposing teams have realised this in the past few weeks, and that's why he's been picked 10 times in the past three weeks.

Even if Kitna had a less than stellar game himself last night, the Cowboys still won because of the pick-sixes thrown by Manning and the INT in OT.


I just saw that Josh McDaniels has been fired by Denver as well. Third head coach of the season, right? Philips in Dallas, Chilly in Minnesota and now McDaniels in Denver.

Third head coach, first not directly following a Packers game (I just love bringing that up:smallbiggrin:).

So, Dandy Don Meredith passed away yesterday. He was the QB for the Cowboys in the late '60's, when they lost the '66 and '67 NFC Championships to the Packers (who then won the first two Super Bowls) then went on to provide commentary for Monday Night Football in the '70's. The game loses one of it's greats.

[xPANCAKEx]

Jags aint at all consistent, but we did run rings around a very sloppy titan team. Admitedly the titans were down 1 offensive co-ordinator and their QB isnt their usual prime choice, but a wins a win

[KerfuffleMach2]

Yay! Go Lions!

...

Aw, who am I kidding...nobody likes the Lions...

[Erloas]

At work we were just talking about how we wished Denver would get rid of McDaniels and now its happened. I didn't even have to hope Denver lost out the rest of the season to do it.
I found it funny that the interim coach is the running back coach.

Now to see who they can pick up. I'm hoping for someone that runs a more aggressive defense and more of a power football approach on offense.

[Tinkee]

Cant believe Dez Bryant of the Cowboys broke his ankle!! Hes a beast!

[xPANCAKEx]

Yay! Go Lions!

...

Aw, who am I kidding...nobody likes the Lions...

im a believer

they've got a few talented players, they just need to actively build around them

[Orzel]

Might get Nicks and Smith back vs the Vikings.

Go G-Men!

[RabbitHoleLost]

I am a fan of the least popular team/most love-to-hate team ever, and that's perfectly okay with me, cause we stomped all over the Jets and we beat the Colts this year, and that's all I could ever ask for

[KerfuffleMach2]

im a believer

they've got a few talented players, they just need to actively build around them

And that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

So, I go for the most-cheered for football team in the Detroit area. The Wolverines.

[Falgorn]

Ravens fan here. Derrick Mason and Joe Flacco...I love it.
Those damn Steelers are leading the division, though.

[shadowxknight]

The Colts beat the Titans!!

Now they just need to win the rest of their games, which shouldn't be hard.
Right?
RIGHT???

[xPANCAKEx]

The Colts beat the Titans!!

Now they just need to win the rest of their games, which shouldn't be hard.
Right?
RIGHT???

not with the way the team is banged up right now. The pressure is well and truely on manning, so its literally all on him

[An Enemy Spy]

Ravens fan here. Derrick Mason and Joe Flacco...I love it.
Those damn Steelers are leading the division, though.

Damn dirty Steelers. I'm behind you Ravens all the way. We bird teams need to stick together. Except when we're playing eachother. Then to hell with you.:smallyuk:

[Indurain]

I am a fan of the least popular team/most love-to-hate team ever, and that's perfectly okay with me, cause we stomped all over the Jets and we beat the Colts this year, and that's all I could ever ask for

*tackles Rabbit* No. I'm going to beat this fandom out of you, if it's the last thing I do.

*punches Tom Brady in the face for good measure.* No man should be allowed to be that pretty.

Personal Note: I'd say who my team is, but this year has been the worst one in their history. We're doing worse than the Lions. *sigh* Why can't we find a QB? (2 fun points for whoever guesses the team...only 2 because it's not that hard)

[An Enemy Spy]

*tackles Rabbit* No. I'm going to beat this fandom out of you, if it's the last thing I do.

*punches Tom Brady in the face for good measure.* No man should be allowed to be that pretty.

Personal Note: I'd say who my team is, but this year has been the worst one in their history. We're doing worse than the Lions. *sigh* Why can't we find a QB? (2 fun points for whoever guesses the team...only 2 because it's not that hard)

Give me a hint. Did you just get stomped by the Seahawks?
Do you have a really awesome logo?
And did you just get friggin stomped by the Seahawks?

[raitalin]

The Colts beat the Titans!!

Now they just need to win the rest of their games, which shouldn't be hard.
Right?
RIGHT???


Well, depending on the Jaguars performance they probably *can* lose against Oakland, but it's going to be close.

The Bears end of the season is just brutal. Hosting the Pats, going to Minn., hosting NYJ, going to GB (game of the year? possibly.)

I'm honestly thrilled with their performance already, though. I did not expect us to do this well after installing a completely different offense than anything that's ever been done in Chicago. They honestly do seem to get better every week, so hopefully that trend takes us all the way to February.

It will be heartbreaking if the Pack wins the division and we have to go home while someone wins the NFC West at 7-9.

[Indurain]

Give me a hint. Did you just get stomped by the Seahawks?
Do you have a really awesome logo?
And did you just get friggin stomped by the Seahawks?

Yes.
Yes.
*sigh* Yes.

[An Enemy Spy]

HA!
HA!
Seriously though, I hope you guys beat Atlanta. I want them to totally demoralized when we face them.

[raitalin]

Ah, the Panthers. A textbook case of simply being on the cusp of greatness for too long. You think you've got all the pieces, but it isn't enough, so you improve. It's still not enough, so you improve some more. Until finally you're paying guys that are too old too much money to not accomplish enough and you've got to blow the whole thing up. This year's team is the debris. Last year's and this year's draft classes had better be good for them, because they might determine their fate for a long time.

[An Enemy Spy]

Don't worry Panthers, at least you're not the lions. Five years from now, you could be Superbowl champs while they'll still be trying to get three wins. The Lions sucking is the only constant in the NFL.

[PhantomFox]

Another Ravens fan here. I'm pretty sure we'll make the playoffs, but it's no sure thing anymore. Normally, I'd hope for the Steelers to implode, but when their last four games are the Browns, Jets, Bungles, and Panthers, then that's a bit far fetched.

Also: I'm in a love-hate relationship with Matt Ryan. He's a nice guy, but when he was in college, he single handedly beat my VT Hokies in the last 4 minutes of the game to crush our Title hopes. And then he goes and beats the Ravens in a similar fashion. I like him, but I wish he's just stop beating my teams!

[KerfuffleMach2]

Don't worry Panthers, at least you're not the lions. Five years from now, you could be Superbowl champs while they'll still be trying to get three wins. The Lions sucking is the only constant in the NFL.

Detroit. Land of consistency.

With NFL and NHL.

[Z3ro]

Well, depending on the Jaguars performance they probably *can* lose against Oakland, but it's going to be close.

The Bears end of the season is just brutal. Hosting the Pats, going to Minn., hosting NYJ, going to GB (game of the year? possibly.)

I'm honestly thrilled with their performance already, though. I did not expect us to do this well after installing a completely different offense than anything that's ever been done in Chicago. They honestly do seem to get better every week, so hopefully that trend takes us all the way to February.

It will be heartbreaking if the Pack wins the division and we have to go home while someone wins the NFC West at 7-9.

The Bear's end of year schedule isn't half as bad as it seems, I think. Minn? Yeah, they were good, but with the disarray going on there, and maybe having to face Jackson instead of Favre? And the Jets, they're hardly the juggernaut they were earlier, barely beating several bad teams and getting stomped by the Pats. I think we can go 3-1 easy, maybe even 4-0 (but then I am a terrible homer).

[Falgorn]

Another Ravens fan here. I'm pretty sure we'll make the playoffs, but it's no sure thing anymore. Normally, I'd hope for the Steelers to implode, but when their last four games are the Browns, Jets, Bungles, and Panthers, then that's a bit far fetched.



Don't worry, it CAN happen. If they lose to Jets and Browns, which could happen, and if we can beat the Saints, Texans, Browns, and Bengals...
We stand no chance...

[KnightDisciple]

I just know that seeing my years of being a Chief's fan are paying off. I really think they could make the playoffs this year! :smallbiggrin:

It helps we're the top team in AFC West, and our standing so far is rather solid when one looks at any division. Makes me happy. :smallsmile:

[raitalin]

The Bear's end of year schedule isn't half as bad as it seems, I think. Minn? Yeah, they were good, but with the disarray going on there, and maybe having to face Jackson instead of Favre? And the Jets, they're hardly the juggernaut they were earlier, barely beating several bad teams and getting stomped by the Pats. I think we can go 3-1 easy, maybe even 4-0 (but then I am a terrible homer).

Yeah, the Jets and Vikes are the one's I'm least concerned with, but it's always dangerous playing a division rival at their house and the Jets are still a pretty well-rounded team who's defense I can see giving our offense a lot of trouble.

[PhoeKun]

*tackles Rabbit* No. I'm going to beat this fandom out of you, if it's the last thing I do.

*punches Tom Brady in the face for good measure.* No man should be allowed to be that pretty.

You make me a sad Phoe. Do you want there to be no Pats fans in the world? Do you want me to be sad and lonely? :smallfrown:

I do hope your team pulls it together, though. As nice as high draft choices are, I think it's honestly better for the fans (and the franchise) if you can end a bad season on a high note. At the very least, it helps everyone feel like they don't need to make any panic decisions in the offseason, and we all know how those usually turn out...


Seriously though, I hope you guys beat Atlanta. I want them to totally demoralized when we face them.

If you're thinking about it from that kind of a perspective, wouldn't it be better for you if Atlanta won? I mean, what your hoping for is that a loss against a bad team would cause the Falcons to basically tank the rest of their season. And sometimes this happens, but generally when you spend the year building up a reputation as a great team, if you blow one late against a crappy team you shrug it off as "just one of those games" and come back the next week geared up to prove it was just a fluke. Add in the fact that the Saints are breathing down their necks, and I'd honestly think you would rather face Atlanta after a win when they've potentially locked in a better position for themselves and might have less to play for.

But then, I'm not really a believer in "demoralizing losses". If a team has playoff-caliber chops, then they should be able to bounce back from a loss and crush inferior competition. Atlanta? Certainly looks to have been showing those chops so far. So if you're only looking at that game from the perspective of Seattle... :smallconfused:


The Bear's end of year schedule isn't half as bad as it seems, I think. Minn? Yeah, they were good, but with the disarray going on there, and maybe having to face Jackson instead of Favre? And the Jets, they're hardly the juggernaut they were earlier, barely beating several bad teams and getting stomped by the Pats. I think we can go 3-1 easy, maybe even 4-0 (but then I am a terrible homer).

I should probably know better than to argue against self-admitted homerism, but my inner pedant has some nits to pick. :smalltongue:

1) Minnesota is more dangerous now than they have been at any time before in this season. They've ditched Childress, have the team some semblance of organized and playing hard (and it's still basically the same team that was one play away from the Super Bowl last year), jettisoned Moss after that gods awful trade (Patriots' aside: *maniacal giggling*), and even though their season is done their legitimately motivated. Write them off at your peril.

2) If you're playing the Vikings at this point, you want Favre to be the QB. I know, Tavaris Jackson is... ah... to put it nicely, "less than stellar", but for this season, Favre's QB rating is significantly lower than Jackson's career average (69.6 versus 87.9). He's hurt badly, is seriously running out of steam as the season wears on, and (this part cannot be understated), is 42 years old. Favre is a much bigger liability for the Vikes than T-Jack. If I were you I'd be crossing my fingers he can cobble together his iron man act for 4 more games.

3) The Jets have been very sorely overrated all season. However, I don't think we can safely say yet that they're quite as bad as the Patriots made them look, either. More data needs to be gathered before we know if they're an easy win from here on out or not. I'm personally expecting them to rally back enough to get hyped again and then blow it in the playoffs, but it's difficult to tell. Maybe they really have been exposed and teams from here on out have been given a blueprint to beat them. Maybe all their bravado will actually get backed up and that loss will light a fire under their collective butt. There's so many ways it could go. But I will say that even though I was positive they were being overhyped, I was nervous when the Patriots were getting geared up to play them. I think there's still something to that.

[Z3ro]

I should probably know better than to argue against self-admitted homerism, but my inner pedant has some nits to pick. :smalltongue:
Sorry, but I never understood getting down on your own team. What's the point? If I don't think my team's gonna win every game, why root for them? Maybe I have to talk to a Lions fan.


1) Minnesota is more dangerous now than they have been at any time before in this season. They've ditched Childress, have the team some semblance of organized and playing hard (and it's still basically the same team that was one play away from the Super Bowl last year), jettisoned Moss after that gods awful trade (Patriots' aside: *maniacal giggling*), and even though their season is done their legitimately motivated. Write them off at your peril.

2) If you're playing the Vikings at this point, you want Favre to be the QB. I know, Tavaris Jackson is... ah... to put it nicely, "less than stellar", but for this season, Favre's QB rating is significantly lower than Jackson's career average (69.6 versus 87.9). He's hurt badly, is seriously running out of steam as the season wears on, and (this part cannot be understated), is 42 years old. Favre is a much bigger liability for the Vikes than T-Jack. If I were you I'd be crossing my fingers he can cobble together his iron man act for 4 more games.

I know that Favre's playing terrible now, but I meant from the standpoint of a healthy Favre vs a healthy T-Jack. I'd much rather take an injured Favre any day of the weak.


3) The Jets have been very sorely overrated all season. However, I don't think we can safely say yet that they're quite as bad as the Patriots made them look, either. More data needs to be gathered before we know if they're an easy win from here on out or not. I'm personally expecting them to rally back enough to get hyped again and then blow it in the playoffs, but it's difficult to tell. Maybe they really have been exposed and teams from here on out have been given a blueprint to beat them. Maybe all their bravado will actually get backed up and that loss will light a fire under their collective butt. There's so many ways it could go. But I will say that even though I was positive they were being overhyped, I was nervous when the Patriots were getting geared up to play them. I think there's still something to that.

While I'm sure the Jets will keep games more competitive than last Monday night, I don't think they'll recover, either. I have a feeling the rest of the league realizes the pretenders they've been and the rest of their schedule will prove it.

[PhoeKun]

Sorry, but I never understood getting down on your own team. What's the point? If I don't think my team's gonna win every game, why root for them? Maybe I have to talk to a Lions fan.

Sorry, that probably came across wrong. When talking sports I like to try and foster objective discussion, and it's often fun to play devil's advocate with a fan and hear their counterpoints to this or that statistic or scenario. I find that if we limit ourselves to the mindset of "my team will win all of its games!", we quickly run out of things to talk about.

But I didn't mean to imply you shouldn't be supporting your team. You absolutely should. I just think that while doing so, you should approach things with a realistic candor. A sort of, "I want us to win out, but X, Y, and Z games are going to be interesting, tough, and kitten, respectively." If that makes any sense.

edit: and to be clear, when your team plays the Jets, I will be rooting for them. I hate teams that walk around with a swagger they haven't earned. They need to get punched in the face a few more times before I'm happy. Mark Sanchez does not belong in the discussion of top tier quarterbacks, and I want to hurt the people who keep implying he's there.

[An Enemy Spy]

The 49ers are playing without the man who almost singlehandedly makes up their entire offense (Frank Gore) and they just brought Alex Smith and his 1-5 record back into the fold. What are their chances do you think?

[KuReshtin]

The 49ers are playing without the man who almost singlehandedly makes up their entire offense (Frank Gore) and they just brought Alex Smith and his 1-5 record back into the fold. What are their chances do you think?

Probably about 1 in 5.. :smallwink:

Going to be a very tough game for the Cowboys this weekend.
Will they be able to stop Vick, Jackson and McCoy?
From what I've seen, Romo seems to be close to being back to playing health again, but apparently he still won't necessarily get the start when he does get healthy since Kitna's been playing pretty well lately.
I think Kitna is a safer bet as a starter, because he tends to not do a lot of rash mistakes, which Romo is prone to do, but then again. Romo has the ability to extend a play more than Kitna does.

It's a tough call.
I do know that since I've got next week off work, I will be staying up, watching that game on TV.
Kick-off 1:20AM local time here.
Should be finished at about 5AM or so.

I can live with that even if it'll be a long day since I have to get up at 6AM tomorrow morning (6 hours from now) to drive my brother to the airport, then have a game of football to officiate before driving back home and watching NFL games all night. It's going to be awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[RabbitHoleLost]

*tackles Rabbit* No. I'm going to beat this fandom out of you, if it's the last thing I do.

*punches Tom Brady in the face for good measure.* No man should be allowed to be that pretty.

You couldn't beat that out of me if your life depended on it.
I was born and lived half my life in Massachusetts, the last year of which held the first Superbowl win, before I was uprooted and thrown to Oklahoma.
And nobody here likes the Pats.
It was yet another reminder of my culture shock.

I am die hard.
DIE HARD.

[An Enemy Spy]

You couldn't beat that out of me if your life depended on it.
I was born and lived half my life in Massachusetts, the last year of which held the first Superbowl win, before I was uprooted and thrown to Oklahoma.
And nobody here likes the Pats.
It was yet another reminder of my culture shock.

I am die hard.
DIE HARD.

I got news for you. If you are anywhere outside New England, nobody likes the Pats. I don't like them either.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Sorry, but I never understood getting down on your own team. What's the point? If I don't think my team's gonna win every game, why root for them? Maybe I have to talk to a Lions fan.


I'm from Detroit, and I have no idea how or why the die-hard Lions fans are like that. But, you have to admit, Lions fans are tried and true fans. They stick with their team through anything.

ANYTHING.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I got news for you. If you are anywhere outside New England, nobody likes the Pats. I don't like them either.

Yes, I understand. Hence my first post in this thread with "I am a fan of the least popular team ever"
:smalltongue:

You'd just think that in Oklahoma, where we have no team of our own, there'd be more?
I mean, its expected that some of my fellow Oklahomas will be (ugh) Cowboy fans, but their tastes are pretty vast. I mean, Vikings and Steelers and Eagles fans.

[Indurain]

While this year has been a test of my Panthers fandom, (the first since the team's early days) I seem to have a real spot in my heart for the lowly teams. It's not football, but I am, was, and will always be a Die-Hard Toronto Maple Leafs fan. (For those that don't follow hockey, that would be the equivalent of a Lions fan)

So to speak to why we still cheer when we know that all odds are against us? Because it's fun to believe. And it makes each win...bigger somehow. When you're always the underdog, every win means something. Also, when they do win the Stanley Cup (and my god they will!) it will be the biggest party in history.

(I'm also a Chicago Cubs fan...:smallfrown:)

Phoe, It's not that I want the Pats to have less fans. But I loathe the Patriots, and I wuv Rabbit...so my feelings get confused. :smalltongue: (That, and Pats fans are the most fun to rile up :smallbiggrin:)

[KjeldorMage]

<Conspiracy Theory>

Is it just me or are the refs favouring the big national teams now more than ever?

Maybe I am biased as a Lions fan but they have had some terrible calls at really inopportune times. And looking at the bears for an example (which I do because I have NFL Sunday ticket) it seems that they have been getting a lot of favourable calls.

My Take: The NFL is trying to back door the Lions out of the Thanksgiving game.
The Ford family has pledged, that if the Lions lose Thanksgiving, they would drop Ford sponsorship from every NFL team and the NFL itself, down to billboards near stadiums.

Since the Fords are trying to wield the only power they have, and didn't take Godell's offer to bring in some top NFL talent scouts after Millen was let go, it seems the commish is trying to keep them worse so public opinion is so harsh that it would be impossible to keep the Thanksgiving day game.

Look at the product on the field, the Lions in my mind have one more win at least,(First game of the season) and should have 2-4 more based on talent alone. A lot of bull calls that I haven't seen before. (3 personal fouls enforced at the same time on Thanksgiving as an example) It's like they are making it up as the go along out there.

One more thing to ponder, The NFL rulesbook is not available Free anywhere, (the one on the NFL site is a quick guide of some rules, not the complete rulebook). So when obscure things are brought out it is as if they don't want the public to know what the rule actually is.

Food for thought

</conspiracy theory>

[raitalin]

Wow, Lions fans are still bitter about that call. Here's the thing: That was the correct call for the situation. Johnson didn't come up with the ball in his hand, so he didn't complete the play. If you've got a problem with the result it's with the rule and not the call.

As far as this happening generally, I don't think they're targeting certain teams. Otherwise the Cowboys wouldn't be having the penalty problems they are (or were) and the Steelers wouldn't be getting 100k in fines every game. If there is a bias it seems to be protecting the QB, and their certainly hasn't been undue protection of Cutler via penalties.

The reason the Lions get a lot of penalties is because they are a poorly trained team. They're undisciplined and they get frustrated too easily. Its the same reason they can't play 4 good quarters. They do have a lot of talent (although Millen's crew was *terrible* in the draft, you have to get something with that many high picks.), but you can't win on talent alone (otherwise the Raiders would be the best team in the league).

[KuReshtin]

<Conspiracy Theory>

Is it just me or are the refs favouring the big national teams now more than ever?

As an official myself, I really dislike comments like these. The refs are there to enforce the rules as provided to them by the league. They do not make stuff up just as they please.

It's not the fault of the officials that the fans, TV commentators*, players, or even coaches don't know the rules.

So, what I'm saying is, don't blame the officials for the Lions not being able to play for four full quarters. Like Raitalin said, that's more because of poor coaching and a general defeatist attitude amongst the players.


*One of the first things you learn when watching game film to see rules interpretations is to do it without any sound, because usually, the commentators are just spouting a lot of drivel and don't have a clue what they're talking about.



One more thing to ponder, The NFL rulesbook is not available Free anywhere, (the one on the NFL site is a quick guide of some rules, not the complete rulebook). So when obscure things are brought out it is as if they don't want the public to know what the rule actually is.

</conspiracy theory>

You wouldn't want to see the complete NFL rulebook.
The NCAA rulebook (http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR09.pdf) is available online, and it's a PDF document sitting at 272 pages. The NFL rulebook has a LOT of additional, league-related, rules and rule interpretations, so the NFL rulebook may well be somewhere close to 500 pages.
Also, since the NFL is a company, and they are the only league using that specific set of rules, there's no reason for them to publish it.
Another reason might be because no one would be very much inclined to actually ant to read through the NFL rulebook.
Hell, I need to know the NCAA rulebook for my officiating, and I find it a real chore to go through it.


ION: The Giants didn't make it to Minnesota, so that game has been rescheduled for tomorrow (Monday) night instead. Big blizzard is blizzardy.

IRN: The Metrodome roof has collapsed because of the big blizzardy blizzard. NOw the Giants/Vikings game is potentially at risk altogether. I wonder what they'll do about the game if they can't play it.
They can't postpone it, because they don't have any spare weeks before the playoffs.
Since the Giants are in the playoff race with the Eagles, what would happen if the game got cancelled?

[Erloas]

IRN: The Metrodome roof has collapsed because of the big blizzardy blizzard. NOw the Giants/Vikings game is potentially at risk altogether. I wonder what they'll do about the game if they can't play it.
They can't postpone it, because they don't have any spare weeks before the playoffs.
Since the Giants are in the playoff race with the Eagles, what would happen if the game got cancelled?

They would move the game to another stadium and play it there. When I was in Phoenix... probably 4-5 years ago, there was a MNF game that couldn't be played where it was supposed to be and was moved to Phoenix. It was before their new stadium... and I kind of think it may have been a New Orleans game and it may have been during Katrina. With that particular game they simply gave all the tickets away for free (I didn't get a chance to go, and knowing what it would have been like in downtown Tempe in a situation like that probably wouldn't have been worth a free game) The Cardinals were not one of the teams playing.


As for the commentators... some of them know a lot more then others and it shows. I think the ESPN commentators suck and they tend to be very biased in their announcing. There are maybe 10 other announcing crews on the other stations and they vary in quality a lot, the crews that tend to get the smaller ticket games that are mostly only aired in local markets tend to not be all that great either.

As for the Refs... some are a lot better then others. The variability in Pass Interference calls is just amazing from one game to the next. One thing that has been standing out to me recently is how certain QBs almost can't be touched without a penalty being called on it and others take some rather nasty hits and nothing is called. Some of it might just be that certain crews are much more lenient then others and I believe crews mostly work a region so they would tent to officiate certain teams all the time and never others. You probably don't have the same crew officiating in California one week and New York the next.
What they really need to do is get a couple real refs in the replay booths that can call their own penalties and refute other ones because there is simply no way for the refs on the field to see everything from every direction. There are a lot of questionable calls/non-calls on the field that are much clearer when seen from a camera. They are so often on big plays that tend to be turning points in games.

[RabbitHoleLost]

(That, and Pats fans are the most fun to rile up :smallbiggrin:)

Really? Cause I always found Jets fans like ten times more volatile :smalltongue:

Also, I think most can be said about northern states and their official teams for anything.
I hate baseball, but mention the Red Sox and I will get all up in your grill.

[KuReshtin]

They would move the game to another stadium and play it there. When I was in Phoenix... probably 4-5 years ago, there was a MNF game that couldn't be played where it was supposed to be and was moved to Phoenix. It was before their new stadium... and I kind of think it may have been a New Orleans game and it may have been during Katrina. With that particular game they simply gave all the tickets away for free (I didn't get a chance to go, and knowing what it would have been like in downtown Tempe in a situation like that probably wouldn't have been worth a free game) The Cardinals were not one of the teams playing.

Just saw a clip on NFL.com saying that they might move it to a new stadium in the Minnesota area that would be an outside stadium. We'll see what we end up with.



As for the commentators... some of them know a lot more then others and it shows. I think the ESPN commentators suck and they tend to be very biased in their announcing. There are maybe 10 other announcing crews on the other stations and they vary in quality a lot, the crews that tend to get the smaller ticket games that are mostly only aired in local markets tend to not be all that great either.

We usually get the bigger games over here in the UK, and we tend to get the commentary crews with either Phil Simms, Troy Aikman or Moose'n'Goose, and of those crews, I'd say that Moose is way better than both Aikman and Simms.




As for the Refs... some are a lot better then others. The variability in Pass Interference calls is just amazing from one game to the next. One thing that has been standing out to me recently is how certain QBs almost can't be touched without a penalty being called on it and others take some rather nasty hits and nothing is called. Some of it might just be that certain crews are much more lenient then others and I believe crews mostly work a region so they would tent to officiate certain teams all the time and never others. You probably don't have the same crew officiating in California one week and New York the next.
What they really need to do is get a couple real refs in the replay booths that can call their own penalties and refute other ones because there is simply no way for the refs on the field to see everything from every direction. There are a lot of questionable calls/non-calls on the field that are much clearer when seen from a camera. They are so often on big plays that tend to be turning points in games.

The problem with trying to get officials calling penalties from a booth is that a lot of penalties are split second decisions, and what's clearly visible when watching on TV in suer slow motion isn't very clear cut on the field.
Having more officials sitting in a booth, looking for penalties would hold up the games even more than they are now.

I admit to being one of the armchair officials calling out for penalties that I thought were clear penalties when seen in Slow-mo.. That was before I started officiating myself. Once you start officiating, you realise the amount of quick decisions you have to make every play of every game, and it's inevitable that you will get some wrong.

Last year, the referee's association over here brought over an NFL Super Bowl official to the annual convention, and he gave us a bit of insight just how good you have to be to get assigned to the Super Bowl.
Considering that every game has around 130-150 plays, and that each official works 16 regular season games, and likely one playoff game before being selected for the Super Bowl, they can't have more than 5 errors all season to be eligible to be selected for the Super Bowl. That's not 5 errors per game. That's 5 errors for the duration of the season. That's 5 errors for aproximately 2600 plays for the season.

The officiating crews in the NFL seem to be divided in two groups, though. One 'East' group, and one 'West' group.

[Erloas]

Considering that every game has around 130-150 plays, and that each official works 16 regular season games, and likely one playoff game before being selected for the Super Bowl, they can't have more than 5 errors all season to be eligible to be selected for the Super Bowl. That's not 5 errors per game. That's 5 errors for the duration of the season. That's 5 errors for aproximately 2600 plays for the season.
That statistic is very misleading in terms of impact though. You consider that most plays in most games don't have penalties, missed or called, I think the average team gets maybe 5-10 penalties a game, so you're looking at 100+ plays a game without anything to call/not call. If you consider that there are something like 8 officials to a crew, 5 errors per official is 40 errors for a crew or about 2.5 errors per game. And thats for being a Super Bowl caliber official, so assumable quite a few of them are worse.

2.5 errors per game and 10-20 calls per game is close to 10-20% rate of error, which is pretty high.
And you also have to consider what is being called wrong. Its one thing to miss a holding call on a run that goes for 1 yard, is something else to get a bad pass interference call on a 3rd and long when a defense is starting to pick up its game.

And I do appreciate that it is a lot of split second calls, I know it is almost impossible to tell if the WR tripped while running that fly route no one expected even though the CB had his touching the WR, where the official is outran and can't be in the best spot to see the play. Which is entirely the reason why they need an instant video replay official as well. Their job wouldn't be to slow-mo review every single play and look for penalties, but do a quick scan as things are happening and put in their word to the ref when the other officials meet to discus some of those penalties.

The out of bounds hits I think need to be adjusted some too. There are a number of calls where the defender gets called for a late hit when both he and the runner are going full speed to the outside. If the defender lets up at all the runner has a very good chance of skirting the sidelines, staying in bounds and making a huge play, but the defender stays at full speed, the runner steps 6" farther to the side and out of bounds then gets hit and they call it a penalty. Sure there are a number of legitimate late hits on the side lines, but it seems like maybe half of what is called there is probably much less then 1 second between the runner stepping out and the defender hitting them.

[An Enemy Spy]

Did anyone else see the footage of the Metrodome's roof? That was gnarly! And so is my outdated slang.

[KuReshtin]

That statistic is very misleading in terms of impact though. You consider that most plays in most games don't have penalties, missed or called, I think the average team gets maybe 5-10 penalties a game, so you're looking at 100+ plays a game without anything to call/not call. If you consider that there are something like 8 officials to a crew, 5 errors per official is 40 errors for a crew or about 2.5 errors per game. And thats for being a Super Bowl caliber official, so assumable quite a few of them are worse.


The Super Bowl crew is not a regular assembled crew, though. It's made up by the best officials at their respective position, so the 5 errors for the entire season is based on that single official, and not the crew as a whole.
And like you said, most plays aren't about calling penalties or not, but also deals with whether you get the correct forward progress spot for the ball, did the ball carrier get out of bounds, did the receiver get both feet inbounds when jumping up to catch the ball, was it a catch or did the ball hit the ground, did the ball come loose before the ball carrier was down or was it a fumble etc. etc. etc.
An error is also counted as the official being in the wrong position in relation to where the play is and the movement made to get there.
So, it really is evaluated for every single play of every single game for every single official.

Also, there are 7 officials on the field for each crew.



And you also have to consider what is being called wrong. Its one thing to miss a holding call on a run that goes for 1 yard, is something else to get a bad pass interference call on a 3rd and long when a defense is starting to pick up its game.


For the NFL officials, there is no difference in those two calls. The evaluation will come back with a negative for both of those calls.



And I do appreciate that it is a lot of split second calls, I know it is almost impossible to tell if the WR tripped while running that fly route no one expected even though the CB had his touching the WR, where the official is outran and can't be in the best spot to see the play. Which is entirely the reason why they need an instant video replay official as well. Their job wouldn't be to slow-mo review every single play and look for penalties, but do a quick scan as things are happening and put in their word to the ref when the other officials meet to discus some of those penalties.


It would be impossible to do a 'quick scan' as things are happening, because not all of the action is where the ball is, and even if you watch a game on TV, you won't see everything that's happening.
Ex-VP of officiating, Mike Perreira used to have a control center where they had every ongoing game running att he same time, and they had several people watching each game for irregularities that might need an instant review. Having that at each stadium would be a massive undertaking and would likely result in needing 4, 5 or 6 additional officials in the booth, trying to follow different things.



The out of bounds hits I think need to be adjusted some too. There are a number of calls where the defender gets called for a late hit when both he and the runner are going full speed to the outside. If the defender lets up at all the runner has a very good chance of skirting the sidelines, staying in bounds and making a huge play, but the defender stays at full speed, the runner steps 6" farther to the side and out of bounds then gets hit and they call it a penalty. Sure there are a number of legitimate late hits on the side lines, but it seems like maybe half of what is called there is probably much less then 1 second between the runner stepping out and the defender hitting them.



A lot of the 'late hit' calls are because of player safety, and again, it's a split second decision from the official to interpret whether or not it's something that needs to be called. Even if it might not look as if the hit is very late, a lot of the late hit calls that do get called that look very close isn't because the initial contact is too late, but rather for the defender doing something extra afterwards, like extending his arms to give the ball carrier an additional push, which could be hazardous as he's letting up and that extra shove can send him sprawling into other people or equipment on the sidelines.


However, I'm going to get off my officiating soap box now, because I know nothing will be accomplished by continuing.
I do agree that officials do make mistakes, because it's inevitable as a human.
I firmly believe that they make a whole lot less mistakes than the regular TV viewer believes, though, mainly because the regular TV viewer don't know what the officials have responsibility for watching for on each play.

[evil-frosty]

I would like to point out how the league instituted a new rule when Brady got his knee hurt but when Palmer had the same exact injury a year or two before Brady the league did nothing. And I hate to break it to you the good teams always get calls going their way, its a fact. Just look at games and you'll see it a lot of the time it might be small things but those small things make up the big.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I would like to point out how the league instituted a new rule when Brady got his knee hurt but when Palmer had the same exact injury a year or two before Brady the league did nothing. And I hate to break it to you the good teams always get calls going their way, its a fact. Just look at games and you'll see it a lot of the time it might be small things but those small things make up the big.

Gonna say that perspective sways a lot of different things- a few years back, when the Pats were at the height of their winning streak, there were quite a few games where it seemed we were being unfairly smacked down upon.
If anything, I think refs are more likely to call against the good teams.

And, as for the rule regarding Brady's knee...well, Brady and both the Mannings right now, I'd say, are the players most in the spotlight of the public- I wouldn't say its because of their teams, so much as Brady's more in the public (and therefore the Leagues) attention.

[KuReshtin]

I would like to point out how the league instituted a new rule when Brady got his knee hurt but when Palmer had the same exact injury a year or two before Brady the league did nothing.

Again, I repeat, that's it's not the officials who make the rules, it's the league. And like Rabbit said, since Brady, the Mannings and Brees are the current poster boys for the league, it's more likely that the league will protect them. The NFL is a business, and they will try to protect their product. This means they will be more likely to add a rule to protect one of their poster boys.
Same when they instituted the horse collar tackle a few years ago. I have no doubt that that type of tackle had been made hundreds of times before, but since it was a high profile game, and TO got injured, the league implemented the rule the following year, banning that type of tackle.
Again, though, it was the league who implemented the rule, not the officials.
The officials are there to enforce the rules, not make them.



And I hate to break it to you the good teams always get calls going their way, its a fact. Just look at games and you'll see it a lot of the time it might be small things but those small things make up the big.

The good teams always get calls going their way?
What then if two good teams play each other?
That statement is just a broad generalisation without any basis in proof.
For every play you provide where a team gets a call going their way, I can provide a play where they get the call going against them.
It evens itself out over the course of a season.


ION: Detroit won a divisional game against the Packers and knocked out Aaron Rodgers in the process.

[PhoeKun]

ION: Detroit won a divisional game against the Packers and knocked out Aaron Rodgers in the process.

Impossible! The refs must have done a poor job enforcing the league's secret "keep the Lions down" agenda! :smalltongue:

...Oi. I realize that fans are quick to cry foul when things go against them, but the fact of the matter is that bad calls happen to every team, and there are a lot of rules in place that shouldn't be (not to mention a lot of rules that should be but aren't). As a fan, it's very easy to have selective memory and/or vision when it comes to penalties called for and against your team, but it's important to keep in mind that these things have a marked tendency to even themselves out over time. Teams that get legitimately penalized a lot are do so because they are undisciplined teams. And yes, there are occasionally fouls called on these teams which are a little bit borderline and probably wouldn't be enforced against another team, but the reason this happens is because the teams (such as the Cowboys) have burned through their credibility. When you're constantly doing stupid things, people notice, and they're not going to give you the benefit of the doubt in an iffy situation. If a team doesn't like the way the officials are treating it, it's up to the team to straighten up its act. Oh, and a note to KjeldorMage specifically - if you really expect me to believe (as you implied) that the Lions lost this Thanksgiving because of a handful of conspiracy penalties, you're going to have to give me either a lot of money or a lot of alcohol. Preferably both. The Lions have the talent to win some games, but they have an atrociously timid coaching staff and an organizational history of failure, from top to bottom. That atmosphere is going to take time to clear away, and until it does the Lions are going to keep following short, because that's the kind of team they've set themselves up as. But they'll always have Thanksgiving, because they've never not had Thanksgiving, and that's just how the NFL works.

Meanwhile, rules change. Oftentimes, they do so slowly. The NFL is a huge corporate structure moving in a lot of directions at once, and is often hesitant to rock the boat until its hand gets forced. The best way to force the NFL's hand is through high profile incidents. High profile incidents, not surprisingly, tend to involve superstars (although they don't always). The Brady rule was necessary before Brady got hit, as Carson Palmer illustrated. But before it happened to Brady, there wasn't enough pressure on the NFL to change things. He's not the only QB to benefit from the change by a longshot, his was just the incident the NFL couldn't ignore. On a similar note, the no catch call that caused the Lions to lose their game earlier this season became a high profile incident when the media decided to make it one. And it's a strong bet that the rule will be reviewed in the offseason, and probably changed. All because of the Detroit Lions.

It's never about conspiracy theories, it's about protecting the bottom line and making sure the majority of the fans stay happy. The best way to do that tends to be to address only the problems that draw the most attention.

In other news, my condolences to the Bears for the pounding they endured in the snow this evening. If it helps to think of it this way, there is a chance this Patriots offense is actually better than the 2007 iteration. Think about that for a minute. :smalleek:

Oh, and it turns out I was totally wrong about the Jets. That's a free win for you, don't even worry about it. I'm done giving respect to a team that can't score a touchdown against a 6-6 Dolphins team.

[Thes Hunter]

Woo Hoo! Go Lions!!

(Sorry any Packer Fans).


I am thinking about hitting the Viking Giants game.... partially cause I live walking distance to the stadium, We will see if they have any tickets left when I get back home tomorrow morning.

[KerfuffleMach2]

So...Lions beat the Packers...

Um...that just seems off to me...I mean, they're the Lions...

[KuReshtin]

What about the finish to the MNF game between the Ravens and the Texans?

Seemed as if the Ravens had the game in the bag early on as the Texans didn't get anything going. And then the frantic 4th quarter comeback by Schaub and the Texans to force OT only to be picked off for the game-winning pick-six INT return.

Great game. Great finish. I feel sorry for the Texans, though.
Fourth consecutive game where they've come from behind to either tie or go ahead in the fourth quarter only to lose the game.

[An Enemy Spy]

I need the Ravens to beat out the Steelers for first place. I don't want Pittsburgh hosting a playoff game. I hate them!

[BridgeCity]

. . . One thing that has been standing out to me recently is how certain QBs almost can't be touched without a penalty being called on it and others take some rather nasty hits and nothing is called . . .

Definately in the case of Michael Vick. The last few games I've watched him play he has taken pretty massive hits, including being shoved so hard when he was already practically out of bounds that he hit his own team's bench, and nothing is called. His coach has even written to the NFL to complain about how little the Refs are protecting his QB. If the hits Vick has been taking had been on someone like Peyton you can be sure that they would have been called instantly.


What about the finish to the MNF game between the Ravens and the Texans?


I'm a Ravens fan, that was a hard game to watch. We came out really strong and then just basically handed them the game again. When you have one of the best defences in the league it is painful to watch them give up a 95 yard drive and a 99 yard drive in one quarter. Thank the gods for that intercept.

[An Enemy Spy]

It looks like the Matt Hasselbeck era is coming to an end. Is the rise of Charlie Whitehurst underway?

[Falgorn]

I need the Ravens to beat out the Steelers for first place. I don't want Pittsburgh hosting a playoff game. I hate them!

Your dream might come true.

The division is all tied up again! :smallbiggrin:

[An Enemy Spy]

Your dream might come true.

The division is all tied up again! :smallbiggrin:

Yay!
Amazingly, the Seahawks can still make it to the playoffs. Thank goodness for the NFC West!

[Orzel]

Wanted: Decent punter
Undead or Alive

[Joran]

Yay!
Amazingly, the Seahawks can still make it to the playoffs. Thank goodness for the NFC West!

And the winner of the NFC West is guaranteed to be at best 8-8... Ugh.


I need the Ravens to beat out the Steelers for first place. I don't want Pittsburgh hosting a playoff game. I hate them!

Not very likely even though tied up. The Ravens needed to win that game in Pittsburgh so they'd have the tiebreaker. Now, the Ravens need to win out and need the Steelers to lose one of the following: Against Carolina, At Cleveland, since the Steelers hold the tiebreaker on account of their better Division record. It's not likely, but maybe Cleveland can give them a tough run; I don't have much hope for Carolina...

[KuReshtin]

Yay!
Amazingly, the Seahawks can still make it to the playoffs. Thank goodness for the NFC West!

If the 9ers win out and both the Seahawks and the Rams lose both their remaining games, they'll make the playoffs.

The NFC West is rubbish. Only division where you can constantly be assured of a playoff spot as long as you just finish with a winning record, or even just break even on the season. And to think that the team from the NFC West that goes to the playoffs will be hosting a game and not have a winning record on the season.

One of the analysts over here figured that a reshuffle in the playoff structure would be a god thing.
Sure, the division winners would still get a spot in the playoffs, but once the four division winners and the two wild cards were determined, a re-seeding would take place for the wild card week, where a team could get to host a game if their record was better than one of the division winners.

So if we take the current standings in the NFC, the Falcons (12-2) and the Eagles (10-4) would get the bye, with da Bears (9-4) and the Rams (6-8) would get through on account of being division winners and the Saints (10-4) and the Giants (9-5) would go through as the wild cards.
The Saints, having the best record of those four teams, would host the Rams, who have the worst record of those teams, while the Bears would host the Giants (currently only on account of having one less game played and therefore a better winning percentage).

The re-seeding would only be for the wild card weekend, though.

Would make sense, yes?
Well, I thought so, anyway.

[An Enemy Spy]

If the 9ers win out and both the Seahawks and the Rams lose both their remaining games, they'll make the playoffs.

The NFC West is rubbish. Only division where you can constantly be assured of a playoff spot as long as you just finish with a winning record, or even just break even on the season. And to think that the team from the NFC West that goes to the playoffs will be hosting a game and not have a winning record on the season.

One of the analysts over here figured that a reshuffle in the playoff structure would be a god thing.
Sure, the division winners would still get a spot in the playoffs, but once the four division winners and the two wild cards were determined, a re-seeding would take place for the wild card week, where a team could get to host a game if their record was better than one of the division winners.

So if we take the current standings in the NFC, the Falcons (12-2) and the Eagles (10-4) would get the bye, with da Bears (9-4) and the Rams (6-8) would get through on account of being division winners and the Saints (10-4) and the Giants (9-5) would go through as the wild cards.
The Saints, having the best record of those four teams, would host the Rams, who have the worst record of those teams, while the Bears would host the Giants (currently only on account of having one less game played and therefore a better winning percentage).

The re-seeding would only be for the wild card weekend, though.

Would make sense, yes?
Well, I thought so, anyway.

Don't be too hard on the NFC West. We always do lousy in the regular season but they always make it fairly deep into the playoffs. The last time an NFC West team lost int the first round was the 2003 Seahawks, and they lost to the Rams. Not to mention that in the last decade, that division has produced 3 NFC Champions and one Superbowl Champion. Just because the four teams are in a slump right now doesn't mean there should be a rule change to punish them.

[PhoeKun]

Don't be too hard on the NFC West. We always do lousy in the regular season but they always make it fairly deep into the playoffs. The last time an NFC West team lost int the first round was the 2003 Seahawks, and they lost to the Rams. Not to mention that in the last decade, that division has produced 3 NFC Champions and one Superbowl Champion. Just because the four teams are in a slump right now doesn't mean there should be a rule change to punish them.

It's not a question of punishing the NFC West for being in a four-team slump so much as its a question of stopping the punishment of decent-to-good teams that don't get the benefit of vying for first place among the also-rans.

There is a very real chance that the NFC West Champion this year is going to be a sub .500 team. I am hoping like heck it doesn't happen, but the schedule is such that the only two teams capable of going 8-8 have highly losable games remaining (@Tampa Bay for Seattle, and @Seattle for St Louis). If it comes to pass that a 7-9 Seattle team makes the playoffs, it will mean that a team that won a grand total of three games against opponents outside of their division will get to host a playoff game against the (at minimum) 10-6 Saints. And you want to tell me with a straight face that this is a just scenario? And that if home field advantage switched between the two, this would be a bad thing?

It's not even just a question of records. Records can be misleading; sometimes you just get unlucky and can't gut out a tough win against a team or two that surprise you, or an unlucky bounce costs you an important game, and suddenly you're three losses worse than you should be. But that's not what's happening here. Every NFC West team has a negative scoring differential. Every NFC West team has a losing road record. Of the four teams, only San Francisco ranks better than mediocre in the major statistical categories (Pass Yardage, Rush Yardage, Pass Yardage Allowed, Rush Yardage Allowed; San Francisco is ranked 7th in RYA. The next highest ranking is Seattle's 16th best Pass Yardage).

In more telling terms, leaving flat stats for more advanced metrics. The NFC West's defensive rankings, in DVOA (Defensive Value over Average):

San Francisco (16th): 2.8% (16.5% vs Pass, -12.3% vs Rush)
St. Louis (19th): 6.2% (10.5% vs Pass, 0.6% vs Rush)
Arizona (22nd): 8.3% (13.4% vs Pass, 3.2% vs Rush)
Seattle (29th): 15% (27.9% vs Pass, -0.8% vs Rush).

And Offensive DVOA:

San Francisco (26th): -6.4% (0.3% Passing, -1.9% Rushing)
Seattle (28th): -14.3% (-8.6% Passing, -6.8% Rushing)
St. Louis (29th): -14.4% (-6.4% Passing, -12.2% Rushing)
Arizona (31st): -30.5% (-40.2% Passing, -4.8% Rushing)

What does all this mean? In a nutshell, the NFC West's statistically best defense is 2.8% more likely to give up points than the league average defense, and the NFC West's statistically best offense (and this is San Francisco in both categories, by the way) is 6.4% less likely to score than the league average offense, taking into account false starts, delay of games, and fumbles/interceptions. To say this again: the best team is below league average. Why should any of these teams get to host a playoff game? The Saints (the team most likely to be spending Round 1 in an NFC West stadium), for reference, have a DVOA of -1.2% on defense and 14.1% on offense. Why should a superior team by every metric be punished just because we have an inflated sense of importance for division titles?

To be clear, anything can happen in the postseason, and the better team in the regular season is not guaranteed to play like it in the postseason. We still play the games for a reason, after all. Everybody who makes it has a chance to win it all. Not an equal chance, but a chance. But by awarding Division champions with an automatic home game, the NFL is artificially inflating the chances of the division champions without forcing them to earn that privilege. And if you honestly believe that a 7-9 or an 8-8 Division Title counts for more than a 10-6 Wild Card (and this is completely leaving out of the equation the 9-7 teams who won't even make the post season), I think it's time you seriously reevaluated your sports outlook.

edit: And on the subject of a reseeding, I'm not really sold on the idea. As long as we continue to have divisions and by extension division titles I think they certainly need to count for something, so short of a massive restructuring of the NFL I would still say division champs should be automatic qualifiers, but I'm a firm believer in sports being a meritocracy. To be treated like the best, you need to actually be better than your peers. So while the four division champs get automatic berths, the seeding should ignore that and be based strictly on superior records. If a single division manages to produce the two best records in the conference, why shouldn't they both get the 1st round bye? It doesn't make sense to me.

[An Enemy Spy]

Seahawks vs. Rams for the NFC West title. A pair of tired, beat up dogs fighting over a bone with no meat on it.
Should still be good though. Both teams need this win.

[An Enemy Spy]

So of course all the attention is on Sam Bradford and the Rams. I should have expected this. Every time the Seahawks have a big game, all the media emphesis on the other team. It happend five years ago in the Superbowl too. Oh lookie, Jerome Bettis is gonna be playing in his home town! And all he has to do is beat... that... other team. I think they're one of those bird teams right? Seahawks you say? No, our policy is to never ever mention the Seahawks, even though this is their FIRST EVER SUPERBOWL!
Why is it that if you aren't Dallas, New England, Pittsburgh or Green Bay the media just pretends you don't exist?

[PhoeKun]

So of course all the attention is on Sam Bradford and the Rams. I should have expected this. Every time the Seahawks have a big game, all the media emphesis on the other team. It happend five years ago in the Superbowl too. Oh lookie, Jerome Bettis is gonna be playing in his home town! And all he has to do is beat... that... other team. I think they're one of those bird teams right? Seahawks you say? No, our policy is to never ever mention the Seahawks, even though this is their FIRST EVER SUPERBOWL!
Why is it that if you aren't Dallas, New England, Pittsburgh or Green Bay the media just pretends you don't exist?

It's the national media. They have a limited amount of time to get as many people excited for a game as possible, and the easiest way to do it is by hard focusing on the superstars and their teams (by the way, you left out Indianapolis).

There's a little bit of give and take every year depending on what the storylines are, like this year the New York Jets are constantly talked about, largely because Rex Ryan has developed permanent foot-in-mouth disease (...in retrospect a poor word choice. I can't think of another way to describe it, though. <.<).

In the case of the specific game you're complaining about, you do have to understand that for the average NFL fan, St. Louis @ Seattle is not an exciting match up between two rivals vying for their division. It's a boring game between two teams with sub .500 records that is for some reason taking up the primetime Sunday night slot, and maybe it would be a better idea to switch over to Fox and watch The Simpsons. Bradford is the only nationally known and popular hook to dangle in front of these people, so of course it's going to be all about him.

Personally, I'm not a fan of this when it detracts from a team deserving of more time in the limelight (the team most hurt by the Superstar bias this year is Atlanta, who have played well enough to be a top story but most weeks amount to a footnote). Tons of really good teams that play very fun and good football get less than their fair share of media attention, and I think it would be a very good thing if the networks would be willing to take a risk with America's most popular sport and be willing to discuss it as true enthusiasts with informative opinions instead of holding out shiny things on strings to enrapture us. An extra commentator or two who could actually tell the difference between a pass rush and a blitz would be nice, too. :smalltongue:

[Joran]

edit: And on the subject of a reseeding, I'm not really sold on the idea. As long as we continue to have divisions and by extension division titles I think they certainly need to count for something, so short of a massive restructuring of the NFL I would still say division champs should be automatic qualifiers, but I'm a firm believer in sports being a meritocracy. To be treated like the best, you need to actually be better than your peers. So while the four division champs get automatic berths, the seeding should ignore that and be based strictly on superior records. If a single division manages to produce the two best records in the conference, why shouldn't they both get the 1st round bye? It doesn't make sense to me.

I don't mind division winners automatically making it into the playoffs; it adds some spice to division matchups. The problem is when the Baltimore Ravens can be 12-4 and still be a road team and the 7-9 Seahawks get a home playoff game.

Also, the Saints can be 12-4 and should be the 2nd seed with a bye, but will be relegated to traveling on the road for their first playoff game.

Re-seeding would solve this.

[Tobimaro]

Chicago Bears fan here in a predicament. The team is facing the Green Bay Packers in the last game of the season. Now, the team is firmly in the #2 seed in the NFC playoffs, but they have a very distant chance of gaining the #1 seed (all we need is for the Carolina Panthers to beat the Atlanta Falcons in Atlanta and for New Orleans to lose at home to Tampa Bay). :smallamused:

The predicament is this: should the Bears play their starters the whole game (and risk injury) for a slim chance for the #1 seed (and knock Green Bay out of the playoffs) or should they rest their starters and make sure that everybody is healthy for the playoffs.

OK, I'd prefer the Bears to play for the seed, and knock out the Packers at the same time. :smallbiggrin: But I do know that the only way that the Panthers will win is if Matt Ryan is carted off of the field So I'll just be happy that the Bears will host the second round and hope that someone beats the Falcons in the playoffs.


I don't mind division winners automatically making it into the playoffs; it adds some spice to division matchups. The problem is when the Baltimore Ravens can be 12-4 and still be a road team and the 7-9 Seahawks get a home playoff game.

Also, the Saints can be 12-4 and should be the 2nd seed with a bye, but will be relegated to traveling on the road for their first playoff game.

Re-seeding would solve this.

Um, Joran, you do realize that the Bears also have an identical 11-4 record. If your team had beaten the Falcons back in week three, we would not be having a conversation about who really should be 2nd seed. :smallamused:

[An Enemy Spy]

NFC:
Falcons
Bears
Eagles
Seahawks
Saints
Packers

AFC:
Patriots
Steelers
Colts
Ravens
Jets
Dun Dun Dun!

[KuReshtin]

Predictions for the Wild Card games, anyone?

I'm going to go with:

Saints @ Seahawks - Saints
Jets @ Colts - Jets
Ravens @ Chiefs - Ravens
Packers @ Eagles - Eagles

Hopefully, I'm wrong on the last pick, though, cause I don't like the Iggles. :smallbiggrin:

[An Enemy Spy]

I've got a question for all who are interested.
What are your favorite teams and which teams do you hate with a burning passion that the devil himself could never hope to match?

[Z3ro]

My wild card picks -

Saints @ Seahawks - Seahawks (In the crazy upset)
Jets @ Colts - Colts
Ravens @ Chiefs - Chiefs
Packers @ Eagles - Packers


I've got a question for all who are interested.
What are your favorite teams and which teams do you hate with a burning passion that the devil himself could never hope to match?

Mine's pretty easy; Love the Bears, hate the Packers.

[Erloas]

I'm hoping the Seahawks win just so it shuts up some of those people about them getting in at 7-9.
I always like to see the colts loose.
Ravens and Chiefs... well its hard to say, I tend to prefer the defensive side of things which goes with the Ravens but the Chiefs haven't done anything in a long time and it would be nice to see them do well for once.
Don't really care too much about the Packers and Eagles, but I think I'm going to go with the Eagles here.

As for teams. I've always liked Denver. The last year and a half I was beginning to question why... but everything has felt better since they got rid of McDaniels, I didn't like him from the start.

As for teams I hate, at this point its the Colts and Patriots. Though really the only teams I tend to dislike are the teams the announcers are always going on and on about as if they can do no wrong. Other then the Super Bowl when the Patriots lost their perfect season I can't think of any of their games that I've watched and actually liked. Something about them just kills the fun of the game to me.

[KuReshtin]

The team I support are the Dallas Cowboys. They were the cream of the crop when I started getting into football properly, back at the start of the 90s, and I've supported them ever since.

I also have had a kind of soft spot for the Packers, mainly because I like the idea that the city owns the team. Also, I guess Favre had something to do with it as well, when he was there.

I quite like the ravens and the Seahawks as well, but that's because I was part of an online Madden GM-league, where I had the Ravens and then the Seahawks as my team at different times. I also had the jets for a season or two, but I never got the feel for them.


As a Cowboys fan, I'm almost legally obligated to despise the Redskins, Eagles and the Giants.
I'm also not a fan of the Raiders (don't like Al Davis' management/dictatorship of the team).

[PhoeKun]

I'm hoping the Seahawks win just so it shuts up some of those people about them getting in at 7-9.

Why should people shut up them getting in at 7-9? They got in at 7-9! They're hosting a playoff game at seven and nine! How does this not upset you? In what sense is it injustice for non-Seahawks fans to give them crap about this? The 10-6 Giants and 10-6 Buccaneers are sitting out at home while the 7-9 Seahawks are given home field advantage over the 11-5 Saints. The fact that Roger Goodell hasn't stepped in and hand-waved the whole thing is all the respect the Seahawks should really ask for, or indeed deserve.

I mean... I just... this is everything that is wrong with divisional playoff seeding. The 2010 NFC West is legendarily awful. And while I understand the fanbase being happy about making the playoffs and rejoicing in the opportunities they've been given, my jaw drops to think that there's anyone out there who can get indignant about a team with a losing record being looked down upon. :smallsigh:

@ An Enemy Spy: The team I am most fond of is the New England Patriots. The team I hate the most is the New York Jets. The team that I don't hate quite as much but that always gives me a heart attack is the Indianapolis Colts.

[Joran]

I've got a question for all who are interested.
What are your favorite teams and which teams do you hate with a burning passion that the devil himself could never hope to match?

Favorite teams (in order when rooting head to head):

Ravens
Redskins

I live in Maryland, near D.C. Growing up it was mostly Redskins, but when the Ravens moved in, I rooted for them more, starting with the Super Bowl year. I like a power running game, I liked their emphasis on drafting and developing players, and I liked that they had the Maryland shield on their shoulders. I like the Redskins but I also find amusement in their mediocrity.

Burning Hatred:

Steelers

I used to like the Steelers, Raven's love not-withstanding. The problem is Ben Roethlisberger. I'm sorry, after what he did, I can't root for that team anymore. Same way I can't root for the Lakers.

Patriots

I like Tom Brady, I like the team. I like their ability to turn unknown players and make them match the scheme. I hate Bill Belichick, especially the smug way he acted during the 16-0 season, especially after he got caught cheating. He's an awesome coach, I'm in awe of his ability, but he rubs me the wrong way.

Wild Card picks:

Saints @ Seahawks: Saints. The Seahawks can't run the ball, and the quarterback is still up in the air. Can't see the Saints losing.

Jets @ Indy: Indy. I'm not betting against Peyton Manning in his building.

Baltimore @ Kansas City: I'm not buying Kansas City. Missing Dwayne Bowe is a huge blow, because the Ravens can stop KC's strength: the run.

Green Bay @ Philadelphia: Toughest pick of the bunch. Which Vick shows up? I'm going with Green Bay, although I'm scared of Vick.

[Reverent-One]

Why should people shut up them getting in at 7-9? They got in at 7-9! They're hosting a playoff game at seven and nine! How does this not upset you? In what sense is it injustice for non-Seahawks fans to give them crap about this? The 10-6 Giants and 10-6 Buccaneers are sitting out at home while the 7-9 Seahawks are given home field advantage over the 11-5 Saints. The fact that Roger Goodell hasn't stepped in and hand-waved the whole thing is all the respect the Seahawks should really ask for, or indeed deserve.

I just don't see any point in getting worked up about it. It's how the division system works. Why bash on the Seahawks when they're just going by the established rules of the system?

[Joran]

I just don't see any point in getting worked up about it. It's how the division system works. Why bash on the Seahawks when they're just going by the established rules of the system?

Because football is supposed to be a meritocracy and a 7-9 team making it into the playoffs over two 10-6 teams rubs people the wrong way.

[Reverent-One]

Because football is supposed to be a meritocracy and a 7-9 team making it into the playoffs over two 10-6 teams rubs people the wrong way.

Which is the Seahawks fault how?

[Joran]

Which is the Seahawks fault how?

None, but it's easier to hate the player than to hate the game. Either way the game goes, everyone will forget about how the Seahawks made the playoffs.

1) Either the Seahawks get blown out, righteous karma is asserted.
2) Seahawks win the game and they prove that they deserved to be in.

Either way, no one will care after this week, they'll only care about the next round's matchups. No one remembers that the Cardinals made the playoffs two years ago at 8-8 and made the Super Bowl.

[Reverent-One]

None, but it's easier to hate the player than to hate the game.

Right, hence why I asked that question, to make people think and realize that.

[Joran]

Right, hence why I asked that question, to make people think and realize that.

Too bad, I hate the Seattle Seahawks and their bald quarterback, latte drinking fans, and excellent aircraft. ;) The entire NFC West should be ashamed of itself.

WTF is a Seahawk anyway? =P

P.S. The one year my Fantasy Football teams had divisions, they were labeled Division 1, Division 2, and Division 3. My Division was so wretched, we got labeled Division Suck... and the winner of our division won the championship... Oops.

[Erloas]

Either way, no one will care after this week, they'll only care about the next round's matchups. No one remembers that the Cardinals made the playoffs two years ago at 8-8 and made the Super Bowl.

Which is entirely why I don't care that the Seahawks are 7-9. Everyone went into the Super Bowl saying the Cardinals are the worst team every to make the Super Bowl, and yet the Steelers just barely beat them along with some questionable calls in their favor. And no one questioned the Steelers legitimacy to be there. The playoffs are the hard part and at that point it doesn't matter what your season record was. Because even getting in to the playoffs at 16-0 doesn't mean you are really the best team and you can still loose.
If the Seahawks do anything in the plays the show they were meant to be there, if they loose the first game they are out just like 3 other teams that did "deserve" to be there.

This also isn't the first case of teams failing to make the wild card when other teams with lower records get to host a home game. There is no good way to fix the "problem" that won't have a lot of long term repercussions.

[PhoeKun]

Which is entirely why I don't care that the Seahawks are 7-9. Everyone went into the Super Bowl saying the Cardinals are the worst team every to make the Super Bowl, and yet the Steelers just barely beat them along with some questionable calls in their favor. And no one questioned the Steelers legitimacy to be there. The playoffs are the hard part and at that point it doesn't matter what your season record was. Because even getting in to the playoffs at 16-0 doesn't mean you are really the best team and you can still loose.
If the Seahawks do anything in the plays the show they were meant to be there, if they loose the first game they are out just like 3 other teams that did "deserve" to be there.

This also isn't the first case of teams failing to make the wild card when other teams with lower records get to host a home game. There is no good way to fix the "problem" that won't have a lot of long term repercussions.

Yes, the playoffs are the hard part, and yes it doesn't matter as much what your record was before you got there. It's the NFL, and these players, even on bad teams, represent the top 1-2% of all people ever to suit up for the game. Even this year's Carolina Panthers had at minimum a 25% chance of victory on any given game. But you can't just completely toss out records, or just what the heck was the regular season for in the first place?

It is not Seattle's fault the NFL has a divisional playoff system, and it is not Seattle's fault the NFC West was one of the weakest divisions in team history this year. But look at their record. Look at their yards allowed versus yards gained. At point differential, at QB Rating allowed, at Defensive Value Over Average, look at their strength of victory... anything. Where is the metric that justifies a team with a losing record hosting a playoff game? The system is broken. Ramifications be damned, this shouldn't be allowed to happen. And whether or not a team deserves to be there is a matter of what they have accomplished to earn it. What have the Seahawks accomplished? What have they earned? What have they done all year other than being a below-average football team?

And in what system does it make sense for a below average team to be rewarded over multiple above average ones? This isn't a case of being high and mighty or puffing out chests and declaring the whole postseason over on the basis of regular season records. This is about how sports are supposed to work - meritocracy. Why should any team put effort into the regular season if a losing effort is good enough?

[BadJuJu]

Why should people shut up them getting in at 7-9? They got in at 7-9! They're hosting a playoff game at seven and nine! How does this not upset you? In what sense is it injustice for non-Seahawks fans to give them crap about this? The 10-6 Giants and 10-6 Buccaneers are sitting out at home while the 7-9 Seahawks are given home field advantage over the 11-5 Saints. The fact that Roger Goodell hasn't stepped in and hand-waved the whole thing is all the respect the Seahawks should really ask for, or indeed deserve.

I mean... I just... this is everything that is wrong with divisional playoff seeding. The 2010 NFC West is legendarily awful. And while I understand the fanbase being happy about making the playoffs and rejoicing in the opportunities they've been given, my jaw drops to think that there's anyone out there who can get indignant about a team with a losing record being looked down upon. :smallsigh:

@ An Enemy Spy: The team I am most fond of is the New England Patriots. The team I hate the most is the New York Jets. The team that I don't hate quite as much but that always gives me a heart attack is the Indianapolis Colts.

Well, if they upset the Golden Boy Breesus and the Saints, they'll change the rules.

Packers over Eagles
Chiefs over Ravens
Jets over Colts
Saints over Seagulls (though I could see an upset here)

SB prediction:

Pats over Packers


.......Go Texans

[Dacia Brabant]

Take this with a grain of salt since I'm a lifelong Seahawks fan, but every division has to be represented by someone, that's just the way it is. Now I absolutely agree that the Saints should be playing at home, their record compared to the Seahawks merits it, so the Wild Card round should be changed next year so that the team with the better record hosts the game (tiebreaker going to the division winner). The regular season has to mean something.

But I have no sympathy for the Giants or the Bucs. If you don't win your division, it's out of your hands and you can't guarantee what'll happen. It's called a Wild Card for a reason.

And I'm picking the Eagles over the Packers, the Seahawks over the Saints (total homer pick), the Ravens over the Chiefs, and the Colts over the Jets.

[Dinner Thief]

Well PhoeKun will be happy with me at the least.

I support the Pats, hate the Jets and kinda hate the Colts

And yeah I am a little angry at the Seahawks getting in with 7-9. not so much at the Seahawks but the system, becasue a 7-9 team should not be getting into the playoffs with home field if there are teams with 10-6 records or 11-5. Its disgraceful. But then again, I am happy that the Pats are going into the playoffs as well off as they are, so I really shouldn't be complaining

[Erloas]

Eh, the way I see it, the Saints are a 5th seed team. It doesn't matter what anyone else (other then the leader of their division) did, they weren't going to be hosting a game. I don't know why the Saints should field cheated by having to play an away game, they would have had to if the Seahawks when 6-9 or 14-2. If anything the Saints should be happy that they get to play the (theoretically) worst team to ever make the playoffs. If getting to play a 7-9 team instead of a 10-6 team isn't advantage enough then I don't know what is.
And even if the Seahawks when 10-6, which is a reasonable record and not one anyone would complain about, they would still be hosting the 11-5 Saints and you would still have a team with a better record playing an away game, but no one would care.

As for the other teams with good records that didn't get in... well what sort of shot do they think they have of actually making it very far in the playoffs if they can't even win their division? As it is a lot of teams are eliminated one game in anway... if they can't win those important last couple games in the season why would they suddenly be considered highly likely to actually get somewhere in the season?

[Joran]

As for the other teams with good records that didn't get in... well what sort of shot do they think they have of actually making it very far in the playoffs if they can't even win their division? As it is a lot of teams are eliminated one game in anway... if they can't win those important last couple games in the season why would they suddenly be considered highly likely to actually get somewhere in the season?

Well, the only reason anyone gives the Seahawks a shot is that they're playing AT Seattle. Seattle has a really good home field advantage and play outdoors, while playing in New Orleans in the dome would have given the Saints a huge advantage.

I think New Orleans would have gotten the 2nd seed if they weren't the Wild Card actually. They're tied record-wise with the Bears and have a better conference record, but are the 5th seed due to the NFL's silly seeding rules.

[PhoeKun]

...Ok, let's try something else.

The 11-5 Jets are being hosted by the 10-6 Colts. This is stupid. The Jets won more games. They earned a better position. What is so magical about coming out ahead in your division that it is automatically superior to any other accomplishment in the regular season? Why is it ok that the 3 and 4 seeds in the AFC are both 10-6 while the 5 and 6 seeds are 12-4 and 11-5? Is it a crime to play in a division with superior competition? I don't see how it's ok to look at the Ravens and turn our noses up at them for ever-so-barely losing out on a Division title to the Steelers while patting the Colts on the head for backing into the playoffs courtesy of a choke job by the Jaguars. What's the logic behind this?

Is there any reason why the postseason should not at a minimum seed itself based on record? Any reason at all?

[Joran]

Is there any reason why the postseason should not at a minimum seed itself based on record? Any reason at all?

[strikes up the band] TRADITIONNNNNNN!!! TRADITION! [PAUSE] TRADITIONNNNNN! TRADITION!
[/end music]

Anyway, the NFL is supposedly looking into re-seeding the playoffs next year.

[Erloas]

If you remove the importance of division games then you pretty much kill division rivalries. They are part of what makes the game interesting. Its not just a standings thing, its the whole feeling of the game that tends to change when you get good rivalries.

If we want to get into the whole record thing and the playoffs, I really don't believe the top two seeds should get a first round by either. If anything they should be the ones playing an extra game. And I don't see why the "better" team should have the advantage of playing at home. If they are going to change seeding then they should randomize who plays whom when and who has home field advantage just like they do in the regular season. If you really are the better team you should be able to win either way.

[KuReshtin]

I still stand by my opinion that I posted on the last page about the playoff structure.

I agree that the division winners should get into the playoffs automatically, so I don't have a problem with the Seahawks being in the playoffs, as they won their division.
I do believe, though, that once the wildcard weekend teams have been revealed, that the teams involved should be reseeded so that the team with the better record get to host the game.

The Seahawks had the misfortune this year that the NFC West was scheduled against the NFC South (total record 36-29, which tied with the AFC North for the best divisional record in the NFL this year) and the AFC West (total record 31-33), which meant that their schedule was pretty rough.

It just seemed as if neither team in the NFC West wanted to win the division, and to be honest, Seattle will likely suffer a bit for it in the draft as they get the 21st pick, at best in the draft, whereas they'd have got the 14th, 15th or the 16th pick if they hadn't won the division (but still kept their current record). It they had lost the last game of the season, they could have had the 7th overall pick, potentially, so them winning the division is a major disadvantage in the draft for them.

[Dacia Brabant]

The thing is, the 'Hawks have played about as well as they possibly could given the injury situation on the O-line, an underperforming D-line, mediocre backfields, a beaten up, aging QB with more of his mentor's faults than his strengths, and a head coach who hasn't been in the NFL since the Clinton administration. If it weren't for special teams they'd be a 4-12 team at best.

I think that we should want teams to overachieve. That's certainly better than the opposite, and tanking it purposefully should be anathema. Strategizing should never replace competition.

But really this is all Kurt Warner's fault for retiring. :smalltongue:

[An Enemy Spy]

I'm sad. The only two AFC teams I don't hate are the Ravens and the Chiefs, and one of them is going to be eliminated in the first round. I hate New England, I hate New York, I HATE those *insert page long stream of the absolute most vile expletives you can think of, only worse* Steelers, and I'm not incredibly fond of Indy. On the NFC side I like every single team there and I hope they win the Superbowl.

[Erloas]

The Seahawks had the misfortune this year that the NFC West was scheduled against the NFC South (total record 36-29, which tied with the AFC North for the best divisional record in the NFL this year) and the AFC West (total record 31-33), which meant that their schedule was pretty rough.
Which is one of my problems with going straight off record. Which team is better, the 10-6 team thats opponents had an average win record of 0.6 or the 11-5 team thats opponents had an average win record of 0.4?

Not sure what the case is here, but it is the sort of thing that will come up later.

Frankly I don't see why the supposedly best teams should be coddled like they are, they have all the advantages: and extra bye week, one less game to play, homefield advantage, and being scheduled against the team with the lowest record. If the playoffs are really designed to make sure the best teams get to the Super Bowl they need to face more adversity. Which I think is why the Super Bowls with the 4-6 seeds tend to seem more special. (of course the Patriots loosing their "entitlement bowl" was great)

[Joran]

Frankly I don't see why the supposedly best teams should be coddled like they are, they have all the advantages: and extra bye week, one less game to play, homefield advantage, and being scheduled against the team with the lowest record. If the playoffs are really designed to make sure the best teams get to the Super Bowl they need to face more adversity. Which I think is why the Super Bowls with the 4-6 seeds tend to seem more special. (of course the Patriots loosing their "entitlement bowl" was great)

It's to give the regular season meaning and because sports is a meritocracy. Home field advantage is substantial, especially with dome/cold weather cities. Having teams fight it out for home field advantage gives the top teams a reason to care during the regular season and not just start resting players once they lock in a playoff spot.

Fans and players want the regular season to mean something and seeding/byes make it matter.

[xPANCAKEx]

as is traditional, the jags sunk to their usual late season collapse! well at least one thing is consistent

draft-wise i think our O line needs development, but not replacement. Gerrard is too much of a risk at QB, and in a year when he was in the hot-seat, he may have given a few exceptional performances, but not enough to warrent being a franchise quarterback. There will be BUCKETLOADS of talent in the next draft at the qb position (this year is apparently talent heavy at the position) so finding someone to develop under him or someone else wont be too hard. The problem with the jags is they sometimes have too much misplaced faith in players even when they dont quite cut the mustard. A more reliable QB will take the pressure of MJD and there-by stop him getting banged up so much

[PhoeKun]

Which is one of my problems with going straight off record. Which team is better, the 10-6 team thats opponents had an average win record of 0.6 or the 11-5 team thats opponents had an average win record of 0.4?

Not sure what the case is here, but it is the sort of thing that will come up later.

Frankly I don't see why the supposedly best teams should be coddled like they are, they have all the advantages: and extra bye week, one less game to play, homefield advantage, and being scheduled against the team with the lowest record. If the playoffs are really designed to make sure the best teams get to the Super Bowl they need to face more adversity. Which I think is why the Super Bowls with the 4-6 seeds tend to seem more special. (of course the Patriots loosing their "entitlement bowl" was great)

It's been mentioned already, but sports are meritocracies. Positions and rewards are granted based on accomplishment. Teams try to win games because they know they will be rewarded for them with post season berths and better seeding. Any one-and-done format is a treacherous undertaking at best; all it takes is one bad quarter, one bad series, even one botched assignment, and 17-plus weeks' worth of hard work goes down in flames. A Best of Seven series has been shown to be a much better indicator of who the better team actually is (although nothing is perfect), but in football this is wildly impractical and outright dangerous to the players, so we have what we have. And that means that every advantage is precious, from an extra week of rest to the opportunity to play in front of your home crowd as much as possible.

Wins are by no means a perfect metric, and they can be misleading, but at no point in time during any NFL season are they guaranteed. If you don't put in the work and walk onto the field expecting your mere presence to be enough, you end up like the 2010 Cowboys (or arguably the Chargers) - teams with all the talent in the world wondering where it all went wrong. You could play the Carolina Panthers 16 times this year, and you'd still have to put in a full weeks' worth of hard effort to come out with wins each time. You may not be a fan of the teams with superior records, but they worked like heck to get them, and it's delusional to think they're being "coddled" with higher seeding and the advantages that come with it.

Don't confuse media hype and bias with what's actually going on. Good teams work hard, respect the abilities of their opponents, and know that they can lose at any time. The teams that forget these lessons are quickly swept aside, without exception.

[An Enemy Spy]

Which is one of my problems with going straight off record. Which team is better, the 10-6 team thats opponents had an average win record of 0.6 or the 11-5 team thats opponents had an average win record of 0.4?

Not sure what the case is here, but it is the sort of thing that will come up later.

Frankly I don't see why the supposedly best teams should be coddled like they are, they have all the advantages: and extra bye week, one less game to play, homefield advantage, and being scheduled against the team with the lowest record. If the playoffs are really designed to make sure the best teams get to the Super Bowl they need to face more adversity. Which I think is why the Super Bowls with the 4-6 seeds tend to seem more special. (of course the Patriots loosing their "entitlement bowl" was great)

Because that's their reward for being the best teams. Why would they try to get the number 1 and 2 seeds if it just meant they'd have a harder road to the superbowl. Everyone would try to be the lowest seed in the playoffs.

[Erloas]

You can't tell me the Seahawks didn't earn that victory. If they should have had home field or not, they played hard.

As an aside, I was going to make a bet before the game that the Saints vs Seahawks game was going to be closer then at least one of the other wildcard games. That it wouldn't be a blowout. However I forgot they started the games on Saturday so I forgot the game was going on until late in the 2nd quarter.

[An Enemy Spy]

Yeah baby! Who says we don't belong in the playoffs now! Could this be the greatest upset in playoff history? I think it very well may be.

[Dacia Brabant]

12TH MAN IN THE HOUSE!!!

Gad I wish I had put money on that game, I'm not a betting man but I just knew our boys would pull it off. Seeing Hasselbeck throw with such great timing like that really brought back memories, and what a run by Lynch at the end. Man's got no quit in him. Looks like the O-line is back in game shape too, though the D is still a big concern.

There'll be people whining all week about the result but they can't say it wasn't a great game. Go Seahawks!

[Erloas]

Well I'm 2 for 2 so far. Another great game.

[An Enemy Spy]

Seahawks are my favorite team. Colts are my brother's favorite team. This was a good day!

[An Enemy Spy]

This right here may be the defining moment of my entire life. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQULIUXZst8)
Not really but it is pretty awesome.

[Joran]

You can't tell me the Seahawks didn't earn that victory. If they should have had home field or not, they played hard.

As an aside, I was going to make a bet before the game that the Saints vs Seahawks game was going to be closer then at least one of the other wildcard games. That it wouldn't be a blowout. However I forgot they started the games on Saturday so I forgot the game was going on until late in the 2nd quarter.

Madden Curse strikes again? Props to the Seahawks, very impressed by Matt Hasselbeck and that run at the end by Marshawn Lynch was just sheer willpower.

I was of the split decision type: I thought Saints would win, but the Seahawks would cover.

P.S. I still believe that if that game was played in NO, the Saints would have won but that's irrelevant. COngratulations to the Seahawks.

P.P.S. My wife (who's originally from Seattle) kept cheering "Seahawks to the Super Bowl"! The only player she can name is Lofa Tatupu.

[Erloas]

P.S. I still believe that if that game was played in NO, the Saints would have won but that's irrelevant. COngratulations to the Seahawks.
On the other hand, changing anything about any of the other games could have changed the favor there too. Replaying any game will likely end up with a fairly different outcome. And of course today both of the away teams won and by more.

[KnightDisciple]

I am...so sad. So sad. Dang it Chiefs, why couldn't you have at least put up a fight! :smallmad:

[AshDesert]

Woot! Rodgers didn't choke in the playoffs, for once. You could here Akins choking though (he was 1 for 3 on field goals). The Packers sure made it close though:smallannoyed:. Playing Atlanta next week in Atlanta, though:smalleek:.

[An Enemy Spy]

Twelve little football teams sat up very late. Four overslept themselves and then there eight.
I went four for four in who I wanted to win this week. Next week I want the Jets and Ravens to beat the evil Patriots and Steelers. In fact, I want the Steelers to lose so bad that the whole organization as a whole is completely obliterated in the game and being replaced by a new, less evil team.
I want the Seahawks to beat the Bears (obviously) and the Packers to beat the Falcons.

[PhoeKun]

You keep bringing this up and so I've been meaning to ask you, but what the heck did the Steelers do to rile you up so much? Did Mike Tomlin run over your dog? :smallconfused:

I keep going over this in my head and I can't get it to make any sense. Pittsburgh and Seattle have nothing to do with one another, and other than Roethlesburger being a creep and James Harrison's "tough guy" attitude toward concussions, there's really nothing that I'm aware of that would make somebody hate the Steelers shot of being a Baltimore, Cleveland, or Cincinnati fan. So... what gives?

Predictions for next week:

Bears over Seahawks (Seattle has never won a road playoff game in franchise history)
Packers over Falcons (honestly, picking this game is a total crapshoot, and it comes down to who tries harder)

Patriots over Jets (It's Mark Sanchez against Tom Brady in Foxborough, in January. This is not rocket surgery.)
And... I have no idea about Ravens/Steelers. But goodness gracious that should be an awesome game. =D

[Dacia Brabant]

You keep bringing this up and so I've been meaning to ask you, but what the heck did the Steelers do to rile you up so much? Did Mike Tomlin run over your dog? :smallconfused:

I keep going over this in my head and I can't get it to make any sense. Pittsburgh and Seattle have nothing to do with one another, and other than Roethlesburger being a creep and James Harrison's "tough guy" attitude toward concussions, there's really nothing that I'm aware of that would make somebody hate the Steelers shot of being a Baltimore, Cleveland, or Cincinnati fan. So... what gives?

Super Bowl XL. After 5 years I've let it go, but a lot of folks out here haven't. The admission this past year on the part of the ref that he blew the Roethlisberger TD call didn't help.

So, 3 for 4 last week (who'd have thought Akers would choke like that?). This week I'm taking the two road teams in the NFC, Packers and Seahawks, and the two home teams in the AFC, Patriots and Steelers.

[Joran]

You keep bringing this up and so I've been meaning to ask you, but what the heck did the Steelers do to rile you up so much? Did Mike Tomlin run over your dog? :smallconfused:

I keep going over this in my head and I can't get it to make any sense. Pittsburgh and Seattle have nothing to do with one another, and other than Roethlesburger being a creep and James Harrison's "tough guy" attitude toward concussions, there's really nothing that I'm aware of that would make somebody hate the Steelers shot of being a Baltimore, Cleveland, or Cincinnati fan. So... what gives?


Also, Hines Ward was voted one of the NFL's dirtiest players. But mostly, I hate Roethlisberger.

[BlueWizard]

Enemy Spy:
You must be doing back-flips. Seattle in the playoffs at 7-9!!! And winning vs the Champs!

One of my two favorite teams is the Steelers. I would love them to face-off in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks again to settle whatever happened when the Steelers won #5.
Do think it was even as close as that score?

The Steelers have the best ownership, most supportive fan-base, AND most female fans.



Disliked teams:
Cowboys and Patriots.
{Cowboys I've hated since the 70's, and the Pats are more of a recent dislike, mostly since they are so ridiculously good. I rooted for them against the Bears when the 'Fridge' scored a TD in the Super Bowl. Should've been Walter Payton damnit! Walter finally got the ring, but not the Super Bowl TD.}

[Joran]

Really, do think it was even as close as that score? The Steelers have the best ownership, most supportive fan-base, AND most female fans.

I guess you just don't like success... same could be said about my friends from San Diego.


I don't like Roethlisberger... I have several names I want to throw at him, but I'll refrain because I'm in polite company.

P.S. Another take on Marshawn Lynch's run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueR1TFFEt3g

Nice use of sound effects :)

[PhoeKun]

I guess you just don't like success...



Disliked teams:
Cowboys and Patriots.
{Cowboys I've hated since the 70's, and the Pats are more of a recent dislike, mostly since they are so ridiculously good.


... *coughs loudly*

I'm sorry, I don't know what came over me. :smalltongue:

[KuReshtin]

P.S. Another take on Marshawn Lynch's run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueR1TFFEt3g

Nice use of sound effects :)

And another. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieMlSNXMR2M)

[An Enemy Spy]

Enemy Spy:
You must be doing back-flips. Seattle in the playoffs at 7-9!!! And winning vs the Champs!

One of my two favorite teams is the Steelers. I would love them to face-off in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks again to settle whatever you all are whining about in Seattle, when the Steelers won #5.
Really, do think it was even as close as that score? The Steelers have the best ownership, most supportive fan-base, AND most female fans.

I guess you just don't like success... same could be said about my friends from San Diego.

I do pull for the NFC West secretly, since the other team I was raised with is the 49ers.


Disliked teams:
Cowboys and Patriots.
{Cowboys I've hated since the 70's, and the Pats are more of a recent dislike, mostly since they are so ridiculously good. I rooted for them against the Bears when the 'Fridge' scored a TD in the Super Bowl. Should've been Walter Payton damnit! Walter finally got the ring, but not the Super Bowl TD.}

No. That only annoyed me and made me a little upset about them, without making me hate them. I HATE Ben Rothlesbeger. That piece of s#!* should not be allowed to play in the league. I hate the fact your logos are only on one side. I hate the way they can't even be bothered to put any designs in their endzones. I hate their ugly throwbacks. I hate the mascot. There is not one single aspect about the Pittsburgh Steelers I don't despise.
Except Troy Polumalu. I like him.
If I hated success then I would hate teams like the Packers and the Saints and like them.

[Avilan the Grey]

As an outsider who has taken a strong like to the game (Swedish, never bothered with this sport until I married an American) I have no real local favorites for obvious reasons, but a lot of favorite teams.

Steelers
Ravens
Packers
Eagles
Giants
Saints

...are all teams I try to watch every week. Unfortunately I have to record any game played on thursdays or sundays, for obvious reasons. It does not work well to go to work after sitting up to 6am watching a game...

The only two teams I really dislike is the Patriots and the Cowboys. Pats basically because every single team is the underdog when playing against them. Cowboys because... I don't know. Just don't like them.

[KuReshtin]

As an outsider who has taken a strong like to the game (Swedish, never bothered with this sport until I married an American) I have no real local favorites for obvious reasons, but a lot of favorite teams.


You should go support your local(-ish) American Football teams in Sweden.
Nearest ones to you, I'd guess would be the Västerås Roedeers (one of the least intimidating team monikers I can think of alongside the Carlshamn Oakleaves) or the Uppsala 86ers. :smallbiggrin:

[An Enemy Spy]

Ravens-Steelers
Packers-Falcons
Two birds versus two blue collar workers. Who will prevail?

[AshDesert]

Wow. Just incredible. The Packers dominated the Falcons. I thought that, even if the Packers managed to win, it would be an incredibly close game. But wow, 48-21. I'm just so happy right now.

Too bad the Steelers won, I kind of wanted to see them lose. The Pats are gonna win, although it would be incredible to see the Jets pull it out. I want to see the Seahawks win, and I think they can pull it off (they did do it before, after all), mostly because I don't want the Packers to play the Bears again, but also because it's nice to see the underdogs win.

[Midnight Son]

After that performance, I'm calling Packers vs. Patriots for the Super Bowl. And I no longer think it's gonna be a blowout on the AFC's part.

[An Enemy Spy]

After that performance, I'm calling Packers vs. Patriots for the Super Bowl. And I no longer think it's gonna be a blowout on the AFC's part.

I'm holding onto the desperate hope that the Jets win the AFC Chanmpionship and then get blown out by whatever NFC team is in the Superbowl, preferably the Seahawks.

[RabbitHoleLost]

After that performance, I'm calling Packers vs. Patriots for the Super Bowl. And I no longer think it's gonna be a blowout on the AFC's part.

If this happens, there will be so much drama in the Rabbit-Trog relationship, you don't even know.
But I'm hoping it happens anyways, because when the Pats win, I will be a smug, smug girlfriend :smallamused:

In anycase, I am pleased by the fact everyone hates the Patriots.
I always did like a good villain, and being born and having lived half of my life in MA, makes me an unshakable fan. And, therefore, an evil minion :smallbiggrin:
This being said, I also hate the Colts, Giants, Jets, and the Packers (I remember you stealing the Super Bowl from us when I was in second grade! >=O )

Hoping we win tomorrow, not only because I hate the Jets, but because that means we'll play the Steelers, and goodness knows DivaDe and I will have fun with that.
By which I mean I will harass her mercilessly on Facebook all week.

[Trog]

If this happens, there will be so much drama in the Rabbit-Trog relationship, you don't even know.
But I'm hoping it happens anyways, because when the Pats win, I will be a smug, smug girlfriend :smallamused:

You mean like they won in Superbowl XXXI? :smallamused:

*helped his dad hang Packers stuff all day today in his den including a poster celebrating that superbowl win, in fact* :smallcool:

[RabbitHoleLost]

You mean like they won in Superbowl XXXI? :smallamused:

*helped his dad hang Packers stuff all day today in his den including a poster celebrating that superbowl win, in fact* :smallcool:

The Packers scarred my childhood. I think I was depressed all of my following third grade year.

[Trog]

The Packers scarred my childhood. I think I was depressed all of my following third grade year.

Awwww... :smallfrown:

*hugs*

I'm sure your Pats will do awesome, hon. <3

[KuReshtin]

*helped his dad hang Packers stuff all day today in his den including a poster celebrating that superbowl win, in fact* :smallcool:

Visual representation requested to verify truthfulness of aforementioned claim.

AKA: Pics or it didn't happen.:smallwink:

[BlueWizard]

Apologize for my rude tone. My dig was mostly at a particular Chargers fan I know.

I respect good football, and think there is legitimate concern for football fans. A 7-9 team could shock the world. At least the Bears tomorrow.
Pete Carroll's cunning is something to watch and is surprising me.

Hopefully this NFC match-up Sunday will be much better than the Packers' rout.

[AshDesert]

I'm holding onto the desperate hope that the Jets win the AFC Chanmpionship and then get blown out by whatever NFC team is in the Superbowl, preferably the Seahawks.

If they can beat the Pats, I think they'd have a good chance against Pittsburgh. That's a very big if though. I'm rooting for the Seahawks to beat Chicago, but it should be a close game. Of course, yesterday should've been a close game too, and we all know how that turned out. Who knows, maybe the NFC road teams will just dominate this weekend (and next:smallamused:).

[Trog]

Visual representation requested to verify truthfulness of aforementioned claim.

AKA: Pics or it didn't happen.:smallwink:

The only pic I have is of the stuff we didn't hang yet because I had it all laid out to figure out where everything had to be hung but I know my dad and he was sure to rearrange all the remaining pics that I had calculated the hanging locations for but had not yet hung up so I took a pic to be able to put them back the way I had them. :smalltongue:

I'm helping hang more stuff later this week so we can hopefully finish up one section of wall. Might take a picture of the wall then. He's got all sorts of autographed stuff, though the jerseys and stuff are at his business hanging in the bar instead. He collects so much stuff. You could fill a small closet with all of his old Packer Reports alone.

[An Enemy Spy]

Well, the Seahawks season is over. All in all, I guess I can't be too unhappy. I mean, we reclaimed the division when everyone said we couldn't, we beat the world champions, and it looks like we're back on the right track for the first time in years.
Watch out NFL! We're taking 2011 by storm!
Good job by the Bears too. Don't take it personally that I'll be rooting for the Packers to win the Superbowl.

[Dacia Brabant]

At least the 'Hawks scored a few times toward the end, but losing Carlson right at the beginning was disastrous since so much of the short passing game runs through him. Sure hope he and Trufant fully recover, those hits were scary to watch.

Grats to the Bears, I hope you guys win it all this year. As much as I can't stand Mike Martz, Lovie Smith is a class act and I'd like to see him win the big one.

[PhoeKun]

I am so depressed right now. So very, very depressed.:smallfrown:

[AshDesert]

I can't believe it, the Jets actually beat the Patriots. Overall a fun game to watch, and it just made the big game look a whole lot easier for the Packers NFC team. Also, that was a pretty epic cartwheel-into-backflip on the part of number 17 at the end there.

So, who's going to the Super Bowl itself? I'm rooting for the Packers, but that's gonna be a close game. I honestly don't know enough about either the Jets or the Steelers to call that one very decisively, but precedent points to the Jets, so I'll say Jets v. Packers at the Death Star.

[An Enemy Spy]

That Jets game was a great pick-me-up after the Hawks game.

[Midnight Son]

Gratz to the Jets. That was some excellent defense. I do have to wonder what the Pats thought they were doing running a 10 minute drive in the 4th while behind by two scores.

[Dacia Brabant]

Well that sucked. What was with all the dropped passes there at the end?

Ugh. Rex Ryan is such a tool. :smallmad:

Double-ugh. The Steelers' route to Yet Another Super Bowl just got easier. :smallmad: :smallmad:

[RabbitHoleLost]

I am so depressed right now. So very, very depressed.:smallfrown:

Yeah. I'm going to drown my misery in Glee and raspberry vodka.
Gawd, I hate New York so bad.

[raitalin]

WooHoo! Go Bears! What, nobody's talking about the Bears? That's the way we like it.

Seriously, if we play as well as we did in this game we can beat *anyone*. I wasn't even afraid of the Pats after I watched that. Now I'm even less worried.

Hoping the Steelers win next week. Mostly because I love defense.

An yeah, I wouldn't get too excited about the Seahawks. Still think they were the third best team in their toilet of a division this year and St. Louis is going to get better.

[AshDesert]

WooHoo! Go Bears! What, nobody's talking about the Bears? That's the way we like it.

Seriously, if we play as well as we did in this game we can beat *anyone*. I wasn't even afraid of the Pats after I watched that. Now I'm even less worried.

You clearly didn't see the Packers game Saturday. Every single aspect of the team was doing fantastic. Not to say the Bears didn't play well today. It's gonna be an interesting game next week.


Hoping the Steelers win next week. Mostly because I love defense.

I'm surprised an NFC fan wants the Steelers to win. The Jets will be an easier game for either the Packers or the Bears.

[raitalin]

You clearly didn't see the Packers game Saturday. Every single aspect of the team was doing fantastic. Not to say the Bears didn't play well today. It's gonna be an interesting game next week.



I'm surprised an NFC fan wants the Steelers to win. The Jets will be an easier game for either the Packers or the Bears.

Nope, I saw it, and they did play extremely well. They were one of the best teams coming into the playoffs. If the game was at Lambeau I'd give them the edge, but we host, so I'm feeling optimistic.

Like I say, I just like defense and I like the Steelers organization. I'm honestly not terribly worried about either team. The Steelers made a lot of mistakes against the Ravens and I think the Bears superior offense (so weird to say as a Bears fan) will make them pay dearly for those. Biggest game of the year happens next week in Chicago.

[An Enemy Spy]

WooHoo! Go Bears! What, nobody's talking about the Bears? That's the way we like it.

Seriously, if we play as well as we did in this game we can beat *anyone*. I wasn't even afraid of the Pats after I watched that. Now I'm even less worried.

Hoping the Steelers win next week. Mostly because I love defense.

An yeah, I wouldn't get too excited about the Seahawks. Still think they were the third best team in their toilet of a division this year and St. Louis is going to get better.

Third worst teams in toilets of divisions don't beat teams like the Saints. Therefore, we are not the third worst team in a toilet of a division, we are the best team in a toilet of a division.
Also, what's so bad about playing in a lousy division? Better than always having to play good teams every year.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Third worst teams in toilets of divisions don't beat teams like the Saints. Therefore, we are not the third worst team in a toilet of a division, we are the best team in a toilet of a division.
Also, what's so bad about playing in a lousy division? Better than always having to play good teams every year.

...Why wouldn't you want to play good teams?
If you get places by just beating lousy teams, you can't say you're a good team at all.

[An Enemy Spy]

...Why wouldn't you want to play good teams?
If you get places by just beating lousy teams, you can't say you're a good team at all.

Says who? How many "good teams" make it in the NFL by the fact that they played a lot of lousy teams? If I have a chance at the Superbowl, I don't care if I got there by beating the Patriots or by beating the Panthers. The end result is the same.

[PhoeKun]

...Why wouldn't you want to play good teams?
If you get places by just beating lousy teams, you can't say you're a good team at all.

Because by playing lousy teams, you can guarantee yourself at least the 4th seed in the playoffs every year and get a home game against a worn down opponent, so you can puff your chest out and say "we're going places!" when you're plainly not. :smallsigh:

But then, fanhood breeds bias. And my team just lost to the freaking Jets. So what do I know?

[An Enemy Spy]

Because by playing lousy teams, you can guarantee yourself at least the 4th seed in the playoffs every year and get a home game against a worn down opponent, so you can puff your chest out and say "we're going places!" when you're plainly not. :smallsigh:

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[KuReshtin]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Why would you prefer to get to the playoffs at 7-9 than get a draft pick 13 spots earlier in the draft? Now, the Seahawks will get the 26th pick instead of the 13th-15th. If nothing else, the 13th pick is more valuable if you want to trade it away.

Also, playing better teams forces you to become better to be able to beat them.
Settling for playing inferior teams and still barely scraping into the playoffs doesn't do anything for the team other than saying that you made it to the playoffs, and the Packers showed that the Seahawks were very much outmatched.

[An Enemy Spy]

Why would you prefer to get to the playoffs at 7-9 than get a draft pick 13 spots earlier in the draft? Now, the Seahawks will get the 26th pick instead of the 13th-15th. If nothing else, the 13th pick is more valuable if you want to trade it away.

Also, playing better teams forces you to become better to be able to beat them.
Settling for playing inferior teams and still barely scraping into the playoffs doesn't do anything for the team other than saying that you made it to the playoffs, and the Packers showed that the Seahawks were very much outmatched.

Bears did. We didn't play the Packers. Also, you can't criticize a team for whether or not they play good opponents. They have no control over that.
And by your logic, I should be a die hard Lions fan. They always get the high draft pick so obviously they must be worth rooting for. If you're not playing to win, you shouldn't be playing at all. And winners get bad draft picks.

[PhoeKun]

And by your logic, I should be a die hard Lions fan. They always get the high draft pick so obviously they must be worth rooting for. If you're not playing to win, you shouldn't be playing at all. And winners get bad draft picks.

That's actually not his point. At 7-9 (and more importantly, the statistical season that went along with it), your team was almost a non-factor in terms of Super Bowl odds. Maybe, maybe 5%. I know, I know, Any Given Sunday and all that junk (except your coach is Pete Carrol, so you can only win on Saturdays... :smalltongue:), but in all honesty what you did is trade 13 positions on the draft board for 1 weekend where you could pat yourself on the back.

They're not good enough to win the Super Bowl, and now they're not even in a decent position to get better next year. With the same record in a stronger position, you'd be in better position to have a good team next year. If the Seahawks are really content to back into the playoffs on top of a slagheap each year, they aren't playing to win. They're playing for warm fuzzies, which isn't even close.

[An Enemy Spy]

That's actually not his point. At 7-9 (and more importantly, the statistical season that went along with it), your team was almost a non-factor in terms of Super Bowl odds. Maybe, maybe 5%. I know, I know, Any Given Sunday and all that junk (except your coach is Pete Carrol, so you can only win on Saturdays... :smalltongue:), but in all honesty what you did is trade 13 positions on the draft board for 1 weekend where you could pat yourself on the back.

They're not good enough to win the Super Bowl, and now they're not even in a decent position to get better next year. With the same record in a stronger position, you'd be in better position to have a good team next year. If the Seahawks are really content to back into the playoffs on top of a slagheap each year, they aren't playing to win. They're playing for warm fuzzies, which isn't even close.

I would agree with that except...
We defeated the Super Bowl Champions, who were considered perhaps the second best team in the NFC. Obviously we did have an impact in the playoffs. Definitely more than the No. 1 seeded Falcons who were completely run out of their own building, and more than the #1 ranked Patriots. Heck, the only reason the Steelers won is because the Ravens handed them the game on a silver platter in the second half, a week after beating a completely hapless Chiefs team. All in all, I'd say we did quite a bit better than a lot of the other playoff teams.

[raitalin]

Third worst teams in toilets of divisions don't beat teams like the Saints. Therefore, we are not the third worst team in a toilet of a division, we are the best team in a toilet of a division.


Sure they do. Just this year Detroit beat Green Bay, Denver beat Kansas City, and Arizona beat New Orleans. Just because a team wins a few key games it doesn't make them the best, it just means they performed their best at the right time and the other teams didn't. That's the whole thing behind the phrase "Any Given Sunday" and the whole point of league parity.

I don't follow Seattle very closely, but it doesn't seem like they're on the way to vast improvement in any category. Their defense is abysmal, and that's the key to getting through the playoffs.

EDIT: I'd put NO at about...5th or 6th in the NFC this year. As I pointed out, Arizona beat them earlier in the season. A high powered offense and a defense good enough to get by can take you places, but its risky. Ask Philadelphia and Indianapolis.

[An Enemy Spy]

Sure they do. Just this year Detroit beat Green Bay, Denver beat Kansas City, and Arizona beat New Orleans. Just because a team wins a few key games it doesn't make them the best, it just means they performed their best at the right time and the other teams didn't. That's the whole thing behind the phrase "Any Given Sunday" and the whole point of league parity.

I don't follow Seattle very closely, but it doesn't seem like they're on the way to vast improvement in any category. Their defense is abysmal, and that's the key to getting through the playoffs.

Have to agree with you there.:smallfurious: You have no idea how much this pains me.
Let's talk about something else. This is starting to turn into the Bash the Hawks Show.
Who will win the Superbowl? My money is on Green Bay. With New England out of the picture, no team has a more dynamic offense than the Packers. And their defense is playing at a high level too. I'd say their only real weakness is special teams. How else do you explain a lineman getting a 71-yard return?

[Erloas]

I would actually say the morale boost for the Seahawks getting into and winning the first playoff game is a lot more valuable then getting 13-15th pick instead of 26th.
Confidence is one of the most valuable things for any team and its a lot harder to acquire then any player.

And there are a lot of examples of amazing players that didn't go in the first couple picks, that didn't go in the first round, even some that were never drafted at all. A theoretical person in the draft isn't really worth all that much because there are so many examples of high draft picks that did anything from completely bombing or were just mediocre. Its not often that one player has that big of an impact on a team... and there is no real way of knowing which ones will and it tends to take a few years anyway.

Getting your current players to believe they really do, as a team, have what it takes to win is worth more then any number of potential draft picks.

[PhoeKun]

I would agree with that except...
We defeated the Super Bowl Champions, who were considered perhaps the second best team in the NFC. Obviously we did have an impact in the playoffs. Definitely more than the No. 1 seeded Falcons who were completely run out of their own building, and more than the #1 ranked Patriots. Heck, the only reason the Steelers won is because the Ravens handed them the game on a silver platter in the second half, a week after beating a completely hapless Chiefs team. All in all, I'd say we did quite a bit better than a lot of the other playoff teams.

I don't want to pick on you, so this is the very last I'm going to say on this topic, but... You need to stop tooting that particular horn. Seattle didn't defeat the Super Bowl Champions, they defeated the 2010 New Orleans Saints. And by the way, here's what they really beat: a dome team. Traveling to the West Coast. On a short week of rest. With both of its starting running backs on injured reserve. In one of the loudest stadiums in the NFL. And it was still close. No giant killers or world shakers, here. If your playoff accomplishments on the year include "took at a team too worn down to advance out of the running" and "scored a couple of garbage time touchdowns in the middle of a blowout", you haven't really had a big playoff impact. You got to feel good about your team for exactly the same amount of time as Atlanta Falcons fans.

And you know what? The Falcons fans aren't happy about that. And why should they be? They got trounced and humiliated. The goal was a Super Bowl, and they fell short. I mean, if beating one team in the Wild Card round each year is your goal, then... more power to you, I guess. I'm glad you're getting what you want out of this sport. But as far as "playing to win" goes? I don't know about you, but I want my team to actually be reaching for the big prize. And if my ownership group was content with squeaking into the playoffs each year with no real chance at the big prize, I'd be trying to figure out travel plans to go and punch them in the collective face.

Short version: hurrah for your accomplishments, but shouldn't you be asking for more? :smallconfused:

Getting off the topic of Seattle now and forever - who's going to win the Super Bowl, you ask? Well, I'd imagine the trendy pick is probably Green Bay at this point, so I'm going to be flippant and say Pittsburgh. Mostly because if there's any justice in this universe, Rex Ryan will not be allowed to win a Super Bowl as a head coach, and I don't trust Jay Cutler enough to win two more games without imploding. So that leaves me just the one team left. I'm getting progressively less scientific about this stuff as I go along, huh?

[raitalin]

Have to agree with you there.:smallfurious: You have no idea how much this pains me.
Let's talk about something else. This is starting to turn into the Bash the Hawks Show.
Who will win the Superbowl? My money is on Green Bay. With New England out of the picture, no team has a more dynamic offense than the Packers. And their defense is playing at a high level too. I'd say their only real weakness is special teams. How else do you explain a lineman getting a 71-yard return?

Good call. Obviously I think the Bears will win it, but I'm almost certain it will be the NFC team.

GB does have the most consistently productive offense among the remaining teams. I think the combination of home-field advantage and superior ST will bring home the game for the Bears if our defense maintains a high level of play.

On the AFC side I would be surprised if the Jets won, but they're a surprising team. I just don't think their offense is good enough to put them over the Steelers.

I think both AFC offenses will struggle against the NFC defenses. The Steelers have the best chance, but they're going to have to improve their play compared to the Raven's game.

[Traab]

I love my giants, I really do. I just think that eli is the giants worst enemy. When he is in gear, they are unstoppable. Their offense tears right through everyone and everything. But then eli starts throwing like a frigging idiot, tossing interceptions left and right, and basically throwing the game away. Its almost never the other team that beats the giants, its the giants beating themselves.

[Thrawn183]

Looks like I'm going to have to pull for the Jets. I am soooo happy they took down the patriots.

Edit: Quote: "Its almost never the other team that beats the giants, its the giants beating themselves."

I can remember a few years back when the giants would only lose after by-weeks and would get excessive celebration penalties every time they scored. They really are their own worst enemies most of the time.

[An Enemy Spy]

I love my giants, I really do. I just think that eli is the giants worst enemy. When he is in gear, they are unstoppable. Their offense tears right through everyone and everything. But then eli starts throwing like a frigging idiot, tossing interceptions left and right, and basically throwing the game away. Its almost never the other team that beats the giants, its the giants beating themselves.

And he forced a fumble on himself. That was hilarious.

[Dacia Brabant]

Getting your current players to believe they really do, as a team, have what it takes to win is worth more then any number of potential draft picks.

Proving that Pete Carroll is indeed the Kamina of football. :smallcool:

Ah, now I know why they lost. Instead of chanting "Who Dat We Dat," it should've been JUST WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE


Anyhow, while Green Bay does look great I don't think they'll be able to run the ball against Chicago, and Rex Ryan is bound to get run over by Karma, so I'm taking Da Bears and The Burg to the Super Bowl. I foresee a closely matched game between them, but with Chicago pulling out a late victory thanks to superior special teams play.

[KuReshtin]

I would actually say the morale boost for the Seahawks getting into and winning the first playoff game is a lot more valuable then getting 13-15th pick instead of 26th.
Confidence is one of the most valuable things for any team and its a lot harder to acquire then any player.

And there are a lot of examples of amazing players that didn't go in the first couple picks, that didn't go in the first round, even some that were never drafted at all. A theoretical person in the draft isn't really worth all that much because there are so many examples of high draft picks that did anything from completely bombing or were just mediocre. Its not often that one player has that big of an impact on a team... and there is no real way of knowing which ones will and it tends to take a few years anyway.

Getting your current players to believe they really do, as a team, have what it takes to win is worth more then any number of potential draft picks.

The morale boost of winning a playoff game might have a good impact on next year's team, but I still say that a higher draft pick gives you more options.
I didn't say that you'd necessarily need to pick anyone at the higher pick, it just gives you more options in terms of being able to trade the pick for more draft picks in the later rounds, or future picks, or proven players in positions where you need improvement.

I believe that it'll be a Steelers/Packers Super Bowl, and I'm going with the popular pick of the Packers to win it all. Their offense just seems to click right now, and they did trounce a dome team, in a dome, in a convincing win.

[Midnight Son]

Until the Super Bowl Shuffle dies a horrible, agonizing death, I will continue to laugh when the Bears get trounced one game before the Super Bowl or blown out in the Super Bowl. I detest that song and the team that spawned it.

[raitalin]

Ahem. 12 points is not a blowout. 35 points is a blowout.

[KuReshtin]

Until the Super Bowl Shuffle dies a horrible, agonizing death, I will continue to laugh when the Bears get trounced one game before the Super Bowl or blown out in the Super Bowl. I detest that song and the team that spawned it.

You guys over there have the Super Bowl Shuffle.

Over on this side of the pond, we usually get a few mentions each year of the 'Glasgow Diamonds Video' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utsHE5xWges) that was apparently spawned as a result of the Super Bowl Shuffle.

It's about as cringeworthy as the 'Shuffle'.

[raitalin]

McDaniels to the Rams as OC. Big move for them. The man knows football, and runs a great offense. Just wasn't honest to the fans or the organization about how much rebuilding he was planning on doing. Rams are 10-6 next year.

[Midnight Son]

McDaniels to the Rams as OC. Big move for them. The man knows football, and runs a great offense. Just wasn't honest to the fans or the organization about how much rebuilding he was planning on doing. Rams are 10-6 next year.
In their division, that's not saying much. http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/Dwarf71/Smileys/evillaugh.gif

[An Enemy Spy]

I should have known this would happen. After all, the universe does exist for the sole purpose of pleasuring Ben Rothlisberger. Why does a dirtbag like him get to win superbowls and make millions of dollars? Why?
I am rooting so hard for Green Bay.

[Avilan the Grey]

I should have known this would happen. After all, the universe does exist for the sole purpose of pleasuring Ben Rothlisberger. Why does a dirtbag like him get to win superbowls and make millions of dollars? Why?
I am rooting so hard for Green Bay.

I like the Bears, but yesterday they obviously had burned out. Did they give 200% last week when they destroyed their opponent? Yesterday was just embarrassing (for being the Bears).

Not that I really mind, I was rooting for the Packers, but the game could have been so much more fun.

...So the Steelers won? I recorded the game last night and will watch it today.
Good, I was hoping for this... Two of my absolute favorite teams, to the point that I can't decide who I want to win.

[Trog]

I don't watch tv and don't have cable, even,so I rarely go out of my way to view a game but I keep my ear to the ground on the games and such when they happen. When we get this close though I have to see it so I spent yesterday screaming at the game just like my mom has always done ever since I was a little kid, and did again. Heck even my dad was yelling.

My parents are such die hard Packers fans it's ridiculous. My mom even had a proper shirt for the game of a kid in a packer helmet and shirt squatting over a bears helmet holding a roll of toiler paper - an old fav. :smallamused:

My dad's Packer den.
http://home.centurytel.net/jeffsjunk/packersstuff.jpg
That room is five times that size and everything in it looks small somehow. And that couch and chair need to go to the curb soon. I think he's getting a green couch or something to replace them.

Anyhow, not nearly as impressive as his bar which has all sorts of signed jerseys and such, imo. Those things on the shelf are collector's steins. That's about half of em. So there you go. The Superbowl poster I mentioned is on the big wall there at the left.

Anyway...

Go Pack Go!!! :smallbiggrin:

[An Enemy Spy]

I like the Bears, but yesterday they obviously had burned out. Did they give 200% last week when they destroyed their opponent? Yesterday was just embarrassing (for being the Bears).

Not that I really mind, I was rooting for the Packers, but the game could have been so much more fun.

...So the Steelers won? I recorded the game last night and will watch it today.
Good, I was hoping for this... Two of my absolute favorite teams, to the point that I can't decide who I want to win.

Well the bears started to show some fight after Caleb Hanie came in. I hope this game gets him some recognition around the league. He looks way too good for third string. I think he could be a starter someday. That #2 QB was just plain terrible though.

[Joran]

Well the bears started to show some fight after Caleb Hanie came in. I hope this game gets him some recognition around the league. He looks way too good for third string. I think he could be a starter someday. That #2 QB was just plain terrible though.

Todd Collins. He saved the Redskins season one year, because of his intimate knowledge of Al Saunders' offense.

Supposedly Al Saunders and Mike Martz are from the same coaching tree, so I'd guess Mike Martz wanted to bring in Todd Collins to train Cutler in the offense, but why he was the second string QB after the performances he had in the regular season, I have no clue.

[CynicalAvocado]

i like the packers somewhat, but i'm positive the steelers are going to win. again.

[Ranger Mattos]

The Packers will win. I can feel it. I can feel it, coming in the air tonight, oh lord. I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh lord (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_vSgZU3FaQ).


My dad's Packer den.
http://home.centurytel.net/jeffsjunk/packersstuff.jpg
That room is five times that size and everything in it looks small somehow. And that couch and chair need to go to the curb soon. I think he's getting a green couch or something to replace them.

Anyhow, not nearly as impressive as his bar which has all sorts of signed jerseys and such, imo. Those things on the shelf are collector's steins. That's about half of em. So there you go. The Superbowl poster I mentioned is on the big wall there at the left.

Anyway...

Go Pack Go!!! :smallbiggrin:

Dang, that beats my dad's Packers den.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well the bears started to show some fight after Caleb Hanie came in. I hope this game gets him some recognition around the league. He looks way too good for third string. I think he could be a starter someday. That #2 QB was just plain terrible though.

I do hope he get to switch places with Todd Collins to begin with.

Personally I will be rooting for Packers, mostly because of their QB who impresses the hell out of me, plus he is FUN. And very physical for a QB too. Plus, you know, maniacs that wears cheese for hats. Beats that lousy towel every time!

[raitalin]

A disappointing game, but a much better than expected season, so I'll take it and look forward to next year.

Cutler was hurt enough that if had stayed back there he wouldn't have done anyone any good, since the O-line couldn't give him any time. Taking him out was the right call. The switch from Collins to Henie demonstrated how important mobility is when your O-line is getting demolished in the trenches.

Congratulations Packers, I think you'll have an easy time of it in the Superbowl. The Steelers aren't going to be able to run at will against GB like they did NY and they've made some glaring mistakes during the playoffs, while the Pack has been playing almost perfectly.

Really, the worst part of the night was watching the AFC game and realizing the Bears could've beat either team in the SB.

[BlueWizard]

I should have known this would happen. After all, the universe does exist for the sole purpose of pleasuring Ben Rothlisberger.


Someone forgot to give you the memo. We voted on this sometime before Ben's first Super Bowl.





Congratulations Packers, I think you'll have an easy time of it in the Superbowl. The Steelers aren't going to be able to run at will against GB like they did NY and they've made some glaring mistakes during the playoffs, while the Pack has been playing almost perfectly.


Really??? Really?
The Pack was perfect?

I do love Mr. Rodgers, but perfect?

The Pack will be lucky to run on the Steelers. Please.

You are foolish to think the NFC can hold a candle to the AFC elite right now. Though the Packers are a good team with an incredible defense. Created by a former Steeler D-coordinator. Dom Capers.

[Avilan the Grey]

Really??? Really?
The Pack was perfect?

I do love Mr. Rodgers, but perfect?

The Pack will be lucky to run on the Steelers. Please.

You are foolish to think the NFC can hold a candle to the AFC elite right now. Though the Packers are a good team with an incredible defense. Created by a former Steeler D-coordinator. Dom Capers.

Actually my gut tells me Packers. I might be wrong, but I didn't see anything Sunday that have changed that feeling.

[BlueWizard]

Either way I am excited about this Super Bowl.

Both teams are great.

[raitalin]

I've seen the Steelers botch 2 snaps in as many games. Those are the sort of mistakes that lose games.

Rodgers did just fine against the defense he was playing, which knocked him around early and IMO has a better secondary than the Steelers. One of the interceptions had nothing to do with his play, and those 250 yards of field position won it for the Packers.

The Pack doesn't have to run against the Steelers except to set up the pass. Pittsburgh doesn't have the secondary to counter all of GBs targets.

And yeah, I'm thinking the balance of power is starting to shift, I expect the NFC to win the Super Bowl more often than not in the next decade.

[Supagoof]

Aaron Rodgers will win the game, hands down.

I'm a Vikings fan, so I'm all too familiar with the QBs that GB picks up. And while this last season looked horrible for us, it still gave me opportunity to watch AR perform. He's something special - like Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Dan Marino special. Doesn't matter how many times he gets knocked down, he's right back up and performing as if nothing happened. This season, it took a little bit for his O-Line to get their act together, but right now they are giving him more time then he needs to throw that ball as well as he does.

I can't say the same about Ben though. To me, it always takes him a play or two to shake off a heavy hit. Granted, his O-Line is great at keeping that from happening much, and he is a big guy who can take the hits, but the game demands more then that.

Defense wise, I see GB giving up ground on the run, but not on the passing. I see the opposite with PB. So if the Steelers don't run often, they are going to have trouble.

Prediction - Pack will strike early with the passing game, scoring a touchdown first. This will make Steelers go to the passing game to catch up, thereby taking speed over the strength of their offenseive run game. The points will be traded until later in the second half, with GB favoring the pass to keep them ahead, and Pittsburgh doing the same to keep them tied. Runs will be used 40% of the time. With GB leading in the forth, they will switch to their run, and take advantage of a less utilizeded rushing game againt a tired defense.

It'll be close, but advantage to the Packers in this one.

[BlueWizard]

Defense wins championships, and this where it will be decided.

Steelers had the ball for 20 minutes in the first half against the Jets before shifting into cruise control with their back-up center mind you.

Still Aaron Rodger deserves MVP not Tom Brady this year.
I'm an Aaron Rodger fan, but pulling for the Steelers.

[KuReshtin]

It's likely the Steelers will have either a hobbled starting center, or a backup center playing for them, which means that their O-line will not have the cohesion that you'd like to protect your QB against a defense such as the Packers.

They definitely need to establish the run and get the O-line time to get their bearings, however I think that they'll struggle against the front seven of the Packers.
Roethlisberger will see pressure early and often, and the packers D will get to him to disrupt the Steelers offense.

The Steelers will expect the Packers to come out with Rodgers passing the ball, and because of that, I think they'll instead use a lot of running plays at the beginning of the game to take advantage of the Steelers keying on the pass. This will open up opportunities deep for Rodgers and his receivers.

My pick is that the Packers win it 28-17

[AshDesert]

My dad's Packer den.
http://home.centurytel.net/jeffsjunk/packersstuff.jpg
That room is five times that size and everything in it looks small somehow. And that couch and chair need to go to the curb soon. I think he's getting a green couch or something to replace them.

Anyhow, not nearly as impressive as his bar which has all sorts of signed jerseys and such, imo. Those things on the shelf are collector's steins. That's about half of em. So there you go. The Superbowl poster I mentioned is on the big wall there at the left.

Anyway...

Go Pack Go!!! :smallbiggrin:

That's quite the den. All we have in our house are three plaques, one for each Super Bowl win.

The Super Bowl is gonna be quite the game, but I really want to see the Steelers lose, maybe even more than I want to see the Packers win (mmm, nah, nevermind:smalltongue:). Also the best Danish bakery in the US (O&H Bakery in Racine, WI) just announced a new kringle for to celebrate the Packers in the Super Bowl. We just ordered 5:smallbiggrin:

[THAC0]

Steelers.

One of my second graders came in the other day wearing a Penn State shirt and a Steelers scarf. I high-fived him. He told me he was just starting to like the Steelers (his favorite is Dallas right now). I told him to tell his parents to get him a Terrible Towel. :smallbiggrin:

[An Enemy Spy]

Steelers.

One of my second graders came in the other day wearing a Penn State shirt and a Steelers scarf. I high-fived him. He told me he was just starting to like the Steelers (his favorite is Dallas right now). I told him to tell his parents to get him a Terrible Towel. :smallbiggrin:

Ugh. Dallas and Pittsburgh? Someone has raised this kid wrong.

[THAC0]

Ugh. Dallas and Pittsburgh? Someone has raised this kid wrong.

Yeah, I was a bit confused by the Dallas/Pittsburgh thing!

[BlueWizard]

I do like two teams, but Dallas is not one of them.

Where I come from you can't like Dallas AND Pittsburgh.
I was raised to dislike the Raiders and Dallas. {Though I respect the once mighty franchises.}

[An Enemy Spy]

What team would hate both Dallas and Pittsburgh? I'm going to guess Eagles. Am I right?

[Trog]

That's quite the den. All we have in our house are three plaques, one for each Super Bowl win.

The Super Bowl is gonna be quite the game, but I really want to see the Steelers lose, maybe even more than I want to see the Packers win (mmm, nah, nevermind:smalltongue:). Also the best Danish bakery in the US (O&H Bakery in Racine, WI) just announced a new kringle for to celebrate the Packers in the Super Bowl. We just ordered 5:smallbiggrin:

OMFGod O&H Kriiiiinglllle *drooling noise*

WANT!

[AshDesert]

OMFGod O&H Kriiiiinglllle *drooling noise*

WANT!

Super Bowl kringle (http://www.ohdanishbakery.com/ohdb/STR009?scrcrtchk=20110128065740350000&scrcrtnum=104235529&scrstonum=0001&scritmnum=162G). We get 4 different types of kringle every Christmas. This year was turtle (so tasty), blueberry, cherry cheese, and cream cheese. Right now all we have left is the cream cheese, and that's just about gone.

[An Enemy Spy]

Pro Bowl! Thoughts! Opinions! Does anyone even care about this game?
I think it's a travesty that no one on my team is going. How do the Carolina Panthers get to send players to the Pro Bowl while my team, a team that actually made it to the playoffs, does not?

[raitalin]

Pro Bowl! Thoughts! Opinions! Does anyone even care about this game?
I think it's a travesty that no one on my team is going. How do the Carolina Panthers get to send players to the Pro Bowl while my team, a team that actually made it to the playoffs, does not?

Because no single one of them was good enough, obviously. Take pride in your superior teamwork. Who do you think should've made it from the Seahawks?

I honestly couldn't care less about the Pro Bowl. Even forgot they moved it to this week until I woke up this morning. Its played at the pace of touch football, and while it looks like fun to the players, its less fun for the fans.

I used to really like the skills challenges they had before it on ESPN, do they still do that? Jason Elam and David Akers playing a game of "kicker's HORSE" is my fondest memory.

[An Enemy Spy]

Because no single one of them was good enough, obviously. Take pride in your superior teamwork. Who do you think should've made it from the Seahawks?

I honestly couldn't care less about the Pro Bowl. Even forgot they moved it to this week until I woke up this morning. Its played at the pace of touch football, and while it looks like fun to the players, its less fun for the fans.

I used to really like the skills challenges they had before it on ESPN, do they still do that? Jason Elam and David Akers playing a game of "kicker's HORSE" is my fondest memory.

Leon Washington for one. I don't think he should have gotten in over Devin Hester of course, but he at least should have been the other return guy.

[raitalin]

Only one kick returner per team, unfortunately.

[AshDesert]

Pro Bowl! Thoughts! Opinions! Does anyone even care about this game?
I think it's a travesty that no one on my team is going. How do the Carolina Panthers get to send players to the Pro Bowl while my team, a team that actually made it to the playoffs, does not?

The Pro Bowl is a very "meh" game for me. The only people on the teams that actually care are the coaches, the players just kinda jog around the field so they don't get hurt, although occasionally they do fun stuff like that fleaflicker or that double reversal in the first quarter. Other than that, only a few players actually try each play, and the teams aren't really as tight or cohesive as a pro team should be. Overall, it's like a high school game but with insanely talented players that aren't trying and restrictions to prevent injury that just make the game boring (seriously, no blitzes? WTF?).

[An Enemy Spy]

Well the Pro Bowl is basically just for fun. It's kinda fun to see players doing things they normally wouldn't simply because there's nothing on the line. Like that last play where the center got a touchdown. That's just fun to watch. Of course I still tuned out and started playing Halo Wars around halftime.

[BlueWizard]

Hmm... perhaps the AFC needed more Steelers...

Mack's fluke TD is AFC's highlight.

[Erloas]

Mack's fluke TD is AFC's highlight.
That was great. I loved how the DB tried to knock him out of bounds and simply bounced off.

It was kind of amazing how poorly every QB did in the game though. Even playing at half speed they could have not thrown it directly to the DBs every other play like they did.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Eh, mostly, I just hate GB, and the Steelers are my third favorite team. Soo, I guess I'm rooting for the Steelers.

But, really, to be honest, the biggest excitement I have for the Superbowl is that Glee is coming back for its second half of the season right after it. I was passionate about the Steelers vs Jets game, but thats because I hate New York's teams with a fiery passion of....fire, or something.

[Midnight Son]

So Dallas is currently being covered in a blanket of very wet snow. So much for the theory of having the Super Bowl in southern cities for weather purposes.

[Joran]

So Dallas is currently being covered in a blanket of very wet snow. So much for the theory of having the Super Bowl in southern cities for weather purposes.

The roof will be covered for the game, so it's fine. What's scary is that the game will be played in NYC in a couple of years... Imagine a foot of snow during the Super Bowl.

[KuReshtin]

The roof will be covered for the game, so it's fine. What's scary is that the game will be played in NYC in a couple of years... Imagine a foot of snow during the Super Bowl.

That's the way football's supposed to be played.
I wouldn't mind sitting out in a freezing stadium to watch the Super Bowl.


Also, to cheer up the Steelers fans in here (DivaDe in particular), here's a YouTube link. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK-bKUReDb8)

[Supagoof]

The roof will be covered for the game, so it's fine. What's scary is that the game will be played in NYC in a couple of years... Imagine a foot of snow during the Super Bowl.ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! ICE BOWL! .....

[BlueWizard]

They should bring the snow machines to Dallas.
And a massive wind fan.
Then we'll have the Packer and Steeler fans shower the field with beer for rain.

Jerry Jones can be left with the clean-up bill.

[An Enemy Spy]

Then we'll have the Packer and Steeler fans shower the field with beer for rain.

How is that any different from what they always do?

True story from a Seahawks game. A woman behind me got exited over a touchdown and spilled her beer all over me. Then she took off her shirt and tried to wipe it off.

[AshDesert]

They should bring the snow machines to Dallas.
And a massive wind fan.
Then we'll have the Packer and Steeler fans shower the field with beer for rain.

Well, it would be nice to let them feel like they're at home. Also, why waste perfectly good beer like that, especially with how much it costs at Jerryworld.



Jerry Jones can be left with the clean-up bill.

I approve of this.

[BlueWizard]

How is that any different from what they always do?

Right! :smallcool:

[KuReshtin]

Very good Super Bowl this year again. It looked to be developing into a bit of a blowout in the first half, but that TD by the Steelers late in the second quarter kept things interesting, and gave them the boost they needed for the second half.

21 point off of 3 turnovers made the difference, though.

Shaun Siusham#s 52-yard attempt at a field goal must#ve been one of the more pathetic kicks I#ve seen for a long time, though.
Like someone said, "It was long enough, and high enough. Just a shame it was 20 yards wide to the left"

Congratulations to the Packers.
Commiserations to the Steelers.

Now it's only 6 months until we start over again with next season.
As long as they can get that damn CBA sorted out.

[Trog]

Hell. Yes.

:smallwink::smallsmile: :smallwink::smallsmile: :smallwink::smallsmile: :smallwink::smallsmile:
:smallwink::smallsmile: :smallwink::smallsmile: :smallwink::smallsmile: :smallwink::smallsmile:
:smallwink::smallsmile: :smallwink::smallsmile: :smallwink::smallsmile: :smallwink::smallsmile:

[Erloas]

My brother and I both thought that while the game wasn't bad, it really didn't seem to have the energy we expected out of a super bowl game. It seemed like a fairly solid game from all the players but it hardly seemed like anyone really stood out.

We also felt that this was one of the worst half time shows ever.

[Nomrom]

My brother and I both thought that while the game wasn't bad, it really didn't seem to have the energy we expected out of a super bowl game. It seemed like a fairly solid game from all the players but it hardly seemed like anyone really stood out.

We also felt that this was one of the worst half time shows ever.

More or less how me and my friends felt. It was a good game, Steelers managed to keep it close and avoid getting blownout, but I just didn't feel any special emotion.

And that was the worst half time show. I can't believe they let Fergie sing a Guns n' Roses song.

[ZombyWoof]

Can people stop riding Ben Rothlesberger now? He's played poorly in 2 superbowls and passably in 1 of them. The only time he's won the superbowl were vs NFC West teams.

I'm sick of hearing about this "great" (mediocre) QB.

[toasty]

And that was the worst half time show. I can't believe they let Fergie sing a Guns n' Roses song.

Meh, IMO she didn't sound any worse than Axl Rose. What was lame was... just everything about that show in general. will.i.am is a world famous vocalist? For shame, the very average vocalists I saw last night at a metal concert (you know, where people are more interested in the guitars and solos and stuff) were better in general. Fergie's mic didn't work when she started singing the first time and she variated between being very bad to... well yeah I guess it was good.

The game was a good one. The Packers deserved their victory and I congratulate them on capitalizing on the multiple mistakes the steelers made. Overall the Steelers just didn't do a good job, 3 turnovers and fouled a lot more than the Packers. Good Superbowl.

[Avilan the Grey]

What was it I was thinking...

Oh. Right.

I.

Told.

You.

So.

:smallbiggrin:

I haven't actually watched the game yet; it started at midnight here so I will watch it after dinner.