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Santra
2010-11-23, 08:17 PM
So due to a series of unfortunate rolls on a crit chart my fighter lost his right arm to the red dragon we were fighting (the hit took me down to -9). So my DM has said that since the wizard is a fleshcrafter I can have any replacement limb that has been statted up in 3.0 or 3.5.

So I was thinking about replacing his arm with one of the dragons legs shrank down but I don't know if that kind of thing is statted up anywhere. I don't want an undead or demon limbs since it would not fit with my character.

Any suggestions would be welcome for any arm.

jguy
2010-11-23, 08:44 PM
Draconomicon has dragon grafts statted up. If I am wrong, look it Dragon Magic

Foryn Gilnith
2010-11-23, 09:03 PM
Sources of Grafts, according to http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7266.0

OLD STYLE
-Fiend Folio (Aboleth, Illithid, Beholder, Fiendish, Maug, Undead, Yuan-Ti)
-Libris Mortis (Undead)
-Lords of Madness (Aboleth, Illithid, Silthilar)
-Serpent Kingdoms (Yuan-Ti)
-Underdark (Illithid)

NEW STYLE
-Magic of Eberron (Deathless, Elemental, Plant)
-Races of the Dragon (Dragon)
-Faiths of Eberron (Construct)

Will update with possible suggestions.

Tvtyrant
2010-11-23, 09:06 PM
The Aboleth one that lets you cover them in Aboleth slime is nice; but the save is kinda low so its only good when you can't afford it :(

dsmiles
2010-11-23, 09:09 PM
You seem the perfect candidate for the Half-Golem template.

The_Admiral
2010-11-23, 09:13 PM
Get a warforged graft

Sir Swindle89
2010-11-23, 09:24 PM
You seem the perfect candidate for the Half-Golem template.

second!

magic immunity ftw

Lev
2010-11-23, 09:31 PM
Seconded on the half-golem, if you are fighting red dragons you might as well go for adamantine.

But all this might be a little too FMA for you.

Aurorum is a more... festive color. It also comes with the perk of being able to be repaired just by bringing the pieces together as a full round action.

For the dragon graft option, use an organ preserving spell on your stump and maybe take one of the dragon's limbs (they should be freakishly light for their size, says various sources on dragon anatomy in DnD) tell your DM to look up page 130 in Races of Dragon, this is an adventure to find a dragon graft expert who can fix the arm for you and should be a little below level appropriate for you guys but can be easily improved.

Alternatively, you could have an elemental limb as mentioned above which would open up a whole bunch of fun options.

Fizban
2010-11-23, 10:00 PM
Did he say you could have any replacement limb made, or have it for free? It's an important distinction. Grafts from any book other than Fiend Folio are usually overpriced and have extra stat penalties (hp and ability score loss). I've only ever seen one book (3rd party, possibly a forum post actually) that priced a replacement limb low enough to make sense. Hiring a Regenerate spell is only 910gp, so anything more than 1,000gp or so makes no sense at all unless you're actually paying for some other ability, in which case they usually double the price when making it into a graft. This is why I find the description of Half-Golems hilarious, as they are described as being a way to help farmers and peasants out while costing thousands and thousands of gp.

togapika
2010-11-23, 10:19 PM
Aurorum is a more... festive color. It also comes with the perk of being able to be repaired just by bringing the pieces together as a full round action.


Where is the half aurorum template located?

Lev
2010-11-23, 10:21 PM
Peasants and farmers get government subsidizing, adventurers get the adventurer tax which pays for the subs.

When meat is 1g and peasants make 3cp a day, you know you're getting jacked.


Where is the half aurorum template located?
BoED has it as a shield, weapon or armor template material.

Safety Sword
2010-11-23, 10:27 PM
What you really want is a silver arm, blessed by the Gods.

Then you can forge the Dragonlance...

Ahhh, Chronicles Trilogy..

togapika
2010-11-23, 10:27 PM
But no stats for it as half-golem?

Lev
2010-11-23, 10:52 PM
But no stats for it as half-golem?
Just use iron or steel and have the ability to regenerate collected piece back on as a full round.

LOTRfan
2010-11-23, 10:54 PM
Sources of Grafts, according to http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7266.0

OLD STYLE
-Fiend Folio (Aboleth, Illithid, Beholder, Fiendish, Maug, Undead, Yuan-Ti)
-Libris Mortis (Undead)
-Lords of Madness (Aboleth, Illithid, Silthilar)
-Serpent Kingdoms (Yuan-Ti)
-Underdark (Illithid)

NEW STYLE
-Magic of Eberron (Deathless, Elemental, Plant)
-Races of the Dragon (Dragon)
-Faiths of Eberron (Construct)

Will update with possible suggestions.

If I may ask, what is the difference between Old Style and New Style grafts, and are they compatible with each other?

CockroachTeaParty
2010-11-23, 11:07 PM
Careful: half-golems take a big hit to CHA and INT (-6 each), and if they fail a Will save upon completion of the ritual they lose their CON score (and minds) and become Neutral Evil.

Santra
2010-11-23, 11:17 PM
Did he say you could have any replacement limb made, or have it for free? It's an important distinction. Grafts from any book other than Fiend Folio are usually overpriced and have extra stat penalties (hp and ability score loss). I've only ever seen one book (3rd party, possibly a forum post actually) that priced a replacement limb low enough to make sense. Hiring a Regenerate spell is only 910gp, so anything more than 1,000gp or so makes no sense at all unless you're actually paying for some other ability, in which case they usually double the price when making it into a graft. This is why I find the description of Half-Golems hilarious, as they are described as being a way to help farmers and peasants out while costing thousands and thousands of gp.

The country we are at had been conquered by the BBEG. After we took it back we found out that the princess and the crown jewels had been given to a local red dragon for his cooperation in the taking of the kingdom. The king is extremely happy at what we have done and has promissed all the recources at his disposal to have me healed.

No magic short of a wish can restore a body part to a person in this world due to how its mechanics work. Trolls have TRUE REGENERATION (patent pending) which is one of the rarest things in this campaign world.

Santra
2010-11-23, 11:19 PM
Careful: half-golems take a big hit to CHA and INT (-6 each), and if they fail a Will save upon completion of the ritual they lose their CON score (and minds) and become Neutral Evil.

Ohh...I do not like that. So probably NO on the half golem thing as that would make me have a 4 int and 8 cha.

togapika
2010-11-23, 11:39 PM
Ohh...I do not like that. So probably NO on the half golem thing as that would make me have a 4 int and 8 cha.


Duhhhh.... but Quib Quib good at smashy things!

JeminiZero
2010-11-23, 11:43 PM
If I may ask, what is the difference between Old Style and New Style grafts, and are they compatible with each other?

I don't know the difference between old and new style. But I can tell you that the rules state that grafts of different types are not compatible with each other. So you can have say, several undead grafts (to a maximum of 5), but no mixing undead grafts with Yuan Ti grafts.

Santra
2010-11-23, 11:47 PM
Ok, so no half-golem and no undead/demon/devil ones so what else?

-Magic of Eberron (Deathless, Elemental, Plant)

I dont have this book and dont have access to it at this very moment but I was wondering what kind of elemental ones do they have?

Also what is a Deathless?

LOTRfan
2010-11-23, 11:48 PM
Deathless are the opposite of undead: Dead creatures powered by positive energy.

Vizzerdrix
2010-11-24, 03:05 AM
I used to have a HUGE list of replacement limbs from many books, but my netbook ate it.

However, I do remember a nice little trinket called the Arm or Narn from Defenders of the Faith (3.0, but whatever wasn't updated is good to go). so long as you're good, you'll get a Str boost and some free AC. All for the cost of an arm!

Lev
2010-11-24, 03:57 AM
Careful: half-golems take a big hit to CHA and INT (-6 each), and if they fail a Will save upon completion of the ritual they lose their CON score (and minds) and become Neutral Evil.
Yeah, a fighter shouldn't really attempt that.

Good to see people even play fighters though, so many 3.5 books out there, good to see the trees for the pages on fighter aren't being wasted.

Santra
2010-11-24, 05:19 AM
Yeah, a fighter shouldn't really attempt that.

Good to see people even play fighters though, so many 3.5 books out there, good to see the trees for the pages on fighter aren't being wasted.

Yeah I am playing a Sword and board fighter for a full 20 (if I live that long). The DM helps though by a few more magic items my way.

Lev
2010-11-24, 06:26 AM
Antimagic, character mobility, freedom of movement and will saves.

Greenish
2010-11-24, 06:43 AM
No magic short of a wish can restore a body part to a person in this world due to how its mechanics work.So you have a fumble chart that allows losing limbs, and extremely restricted means of re-growing them.

Sounds like your DM got bullied by Fighters when he was a kid. :smallamused:


(Cue DM, adjusting his wizard hat: "I'm not biased against melee, some of my best friends are mundane fighters!")

Santra
2010-11-24, 06:52 AM
So you have a fumble chart that allows losing limbs, and extremely restricted means of re-growing them.

Sounds like your DM got bullied by Fighters when he was a kid. :smallamused:


(Cue DM, adjusting his wizard hat: "I'm not biased against melee, some of my best friends are mundane fighters!")
we use a similar crit chart as him but he has removed all the instantly lethal stuff and changed it to dismemberment Then he his dismemberment stuff was changed to broken bones, before that attack would have killed me right out.

panaikhan
2010-11-24, 08:21 AM
If you look at Renegade Mastermaker, they have a Warforged Battle-Fist in place of one arm. Sounds like a way to go?

true_shinken
2010-11-24, 08:27 AM
You seem the perfect candidate for the Half-Golem template.

Exactly. It was even a red dragon that chewed you, just like Dorn.

Darrin
2010-11-24, 08:32 AM
If you look at Renegade Mastermaker, they have a Warforged Battle-Fist in place of one arm. Sounds like a way to go?

The Mighty Arms graft (Faiths of Eberron p. 158) is one of the cheapest in the game: 1000 GP, and you gain a slam attack that you can add as a secondary natural attack after your iterative attacks (-5 penalty). This allows you to mount warforged components that replace the arm/hand.

Adding a Battlefist (Eberron Campaign Setting p. 268) only costs another 2600 GP. This is a +1 weapon that increases the damage on your slam attack to 1d8.

true_shinken
2010-11-24, 08:40 AM
The Mighty Arms graft (Faiths of Eberron p. 158) is one of the cheapest in the game: 1000 GP, and you gain a slam attack that you can add as a secondary natural attack after your iterative attacks (-5 penalty). This allows you to mount warforged components that replace the arm/hand.

Adding a Battlefist (Eberron Campaign Setting p. 268) only costs another 2600 GP. This is a +1 weapon that increases the damage on your slam attack to 1d8.

I had a player who used this and a wand chamber to play Megaman. I kid you not.

panaikhan
2010-11-24, 08:46 AM
I'll stand him next to our warforged then, with two wand-chambers behind pectoral plates for playing Guyver.

Santra
2010-11-24, 09:49 AM
Exactly. It was even a red dragon that chewed you, just like Dorn.

yeah but I am not gonig to take those negatives and that will save at the end ensures me NOT TAKING IT.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-11-24, 09:56 AM
yeah but I am not gonig to take those negatives and that will save at the end ensures me NOT TAKING IT.

If you're only getting one limb, the Will save is only DC 15. The DC gets higher the more limbs you replace, but there's no mechanical benefit for getting multiple new limbs (unless you lose more than one, I guess?).

The good news is there's no LA, just a (hefty) pricetag and a small XP cost. Then you have a freakin' ROBOT ARM and are IMMUNE TO MOST SPELLS, but are DUMB AS A ROCK and HIDEOUS TO BEHOLD.

The_Admiral
2010-11-24, 10:47 AM
I had a player who used this and a wand chamber to play Megaman. I kid you not.

Ok thats my next character

AslanCross
2010-11-25, 08:57 PM
The Mighty Arms graft (Faiths of Eberron p. 158) is one of the cheapest in the game: 1000 GP, and you gain a slam attack that you can add as a secondary natural attack after your iterative attacks (-5 penalty). This allows you to mount warforged components that replace the arm/hand.

Adding a Battlefist (Eberron Campaign Setting p. 268) only costs another 2600 GP. This is a +1 weapon that increases the damage on your slam attack to 1d8.

I recommend this. It's extremely cheap and comes at a very low risk. Many of the other grafts are expensive and dangerous (especially Half-Golem).

Urpriest
2010-11-25, 09:29 PM
If you're only getting one limb, the Will save is only DC 15. The DC gets higher the more limbs you replace, but there's no mechanical benefit for getting multiple new limbs (unless you lose more than one, I guess?).

The good news is there's no LA, just a (hefty) pricetag and a small XP cost. Then you have a freakin' ROBOT ARM and are IMMUNE TO MOST SPELLS, but are DUMB AS A ROCK and HIDEOUS TO BEHOLD.

Just pointing it out, there's a big difference between no LA and LA +0. LA +0 doesn't impact your leveling and is nice. No LA means RAW it's not allowed for player characters at all.

@OP: New Grafts can't be made by fleshgrafters, require that you have no other types of grafts, require a separate feat to craft each type, have odd drawbacks, but have interesting synergy bonuses.

Old Grafts allow you to have as many as you want, can be made by fleshgrafters, and can be mixed and matched between types. They tend to either have no drawbacks or have really ridiculous ones (turning you evil, -4 on will saves per graft, or require aboleth slime to not dissolve). Still, the ones without such problems are helpful.

Quietus
2010-11-25, 10:10 PM
Just as a heads up, draconic grafts are found in Races Of The Dragon. The Taloned Arm graft in particular is on page 130, and offers a secondary claw attack, with no other benefits. Little expensive, generally, for my tastes, but since you DID just kill a dragon.. might as well attach a bit of it to yourself?

CockroachTeaParty
2010-11-25, 10:27 PM
Just pointing it out, there's a big difference between no LA and LA +0. LA +0 doesn't impact your leveling and is nice. No LA means RAW it's not allowed for player characters at all.

@OP: New Grafts can't be made by fleshgrafters, require that you have no other types of grafts, require a separate feat to craft each type, have odd drawbacks, but have interesting synergy bonuses.

Old Grafts allow you to have as many as you want, can be made by fleshgrafters, and can be mixed and matched between types. They tend to either have no drawbacks or have really ridiculous ones (turning you evil, -4 on will saves per graft, or require aboleth slime to not dissolve). Still, the ones without such problems are helpful.

In the MMII 3.5 update thingy, half-golems are listed as LA-, suggesting that they are not intended for player characters, and in many ways they probably are not. However, I think that might apply to the half-golems who failed their saves, rather than the ones that retain their minds.

The rules exist in the book: how to craft the arm, how to attach it, how to enchant it, and the consequences (for failure and success). The pricetag and XP cost is there; the risks are up to the creator and recipient. The mental penalties alone are worth careful consideration, but the benefits (primarily DR, natural armor, STR increase, and immunity to magic) are also worth consideration as well, especially when faced with a dismemberment conundrum. Of course, getting someone to cast Regeneration for you is likely going to be cheaper than a 20,000 gp robot arm. But is it as cool?

Also, Old Grafts are way better than New Grafts. Whenever I'm faced with equipping a high level character, with hundreds of thousands of gold to spend, I often load them up on the fantastic (and pricey) Silthilar grafts from Lords of Madness. I'm less a fan of the New Grafts... too restrictive.

AslanCross
2010-11-25, 11:57 PM
I always found the half-golem template weird. Is there any point to getting more than one limb? Does one even have a choice? I was under the impression that the process lops off all your limbs and replaces them with golem parts, and that creatures with more than 4 limbs (dragons, for instance) are harder to keep sane during the process. There seems to be no benefit when one adds more than one limb.

Tytalus
2010-11-26, 05:03 AM
I would go with an Arm of Nyr (Defenders of Faith). It's from a 3.0 source, but since it hasn't been updated, it's viable in 3.5 play. It offers very nice benefits, too, in particular unnamed bonuses to STR and DEX, as well as a deflection bonus to AC. All for a nice 12.8k gold.

Tytalus
2010-11-26, 05:06 AM
Cursed double post!

Vizzerdrix
2010-11-26, 05:30 AM
I would go with an Arm of Nyr (Defenders of Faith). It's from a 3.0 source, but since it hasn't been updated, it's viable in 3.5 play. It offers very nice benefits, too, in particular unnamed bonuses to STR and DEX, as well as a deflection bonus to AC. All for a nice 12.8k gold.

Bah. I thougt I'd gotten its name wrong.:smallfrown:

FelixG
2010-11-26, 06:00 AM
I would go for the half-golem template, if your a sword and board fighter then -6 INT and CHA isn't really that problematic.

And the will save isnt so bad, you can just get stuff to boost your will save before going into the operation, borrow that cloak of resistance from your friend or some such or have them cast Owl's Wisdom on ya!

panaikhan
2010-11-26, 08:27 AM
There are rules in one of the Swords and Sorcery books for replacement limbs - the one about secret societies? I forget the name of the book for the moment.

true_shinken
2010-11-26, 10:28 AM
I would go for the half-golem template, if your a sword and board fighter then -6 INT and CHA isn't really that problematic.

And the will save isnt so bad, you can just get stuff to boost your will save before going into the operation, borrow that cloak of resistance from your friend or some such or have them cast Owl's Wisdom on ya!

Heroics > Moment of Perfect Mind works as well. Is Steadfast Determination a fighter bonus feat? Because if it is...

Greenish
2010-11-26, 10:34 AM
Is Steadfast Determination a fighter bonus feat?Sadly, no.

grimbold
2010-11-26, 11:08 AM
i hope for your sake you are allowed a dragon arm
that would be SO COOL!

Ruinix
2010-11-26, 11:41 AM
I always found the half-golem template weird. Is there any point to getting more than one limb? Does one even have a choice? I was under the impression that the process lops off all your limbs and replaces them with golem parts, and that creatures with more than 4 limbs (dragons, for instance) are harder to keep sane during the process. There seems to be no benefit when one adds more than one limb.

oook u can ask Jax is ok to get more than 1 limb XDD

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2010/10/jax_mortal_kombat.jpg
http://zonamortalkombat.site40.net/games/mkda/personajes/bio_jax.jpg

HALF GOLEM JAX FTW

AslanCross
2010-11-26, 06:46 PM
oook u can ask Jax is ok to get more than 1 limb XDD

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2010/10/jax_mortal_kombat.jpg
http://zonamortalkombat.site40.net/games/mkda/personajes/bio_jax.jpg

HALF GOLEM JAX FTW

Err, yeah, no problems with how cool it is, but it was more of a rules confusion question. :smalltongue:
The wording is bizarre and clearly says that having more than one limb (or only one limb) does not affect bonuses, but at the same time makes references to "limbs" all the time ("craft the limbs," "attach the limbs"), and the implication of being a half golem says to me that ALL of the limbs of the creature have to replaced with the golem limbs.

Urpriest
2010-11-26, 06:54 PM
Err, yeah, no problems with how cool it is, but it was more of a rules confusion question. :smalltongue:
The wording is bizarre and clearly says that having more than one limb (or only one limb) does not affect bonuses, but at the same time makes references to "limbs" all the time ("craft the limbs," "attach the limbs"), and the implication of being a half golem says to me that ALL of the limbs of the creature have to replaced with the golem limbs.

The illustrations pretty clearly retain human limbs. You don't gain any extra benefit for the extra limbs, but the whole assumption of the template is that you're playing with rules for limb loss, and if you're doing so then there is a rather obvious situation for wanting more than one limb.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-11-26, 07:10 PM
Yeah, the multiple limb thing is primarily there for flavor, I guess. If you want an NPC to really fail that save, give them three or four limbs, I guess. The pictures of the poor half-golem half-orcs in the MMII have varying numbers of artificial limbs... the most being the half-iron golem, who has three (with only one limb, a leg, being of normal flesh and blood). Of course, the half-flesh golem might have all replacement limbs... I'm not sure. I think the half-stone and half-clay only have the arms replaced.

:B

realbombchu
2010-11-26, 07:56 PM
There was a Dragon article that offered magic replacement limbs. It was from 2nd edition, but I think I saw it updated in the Dragon Compendium. I'm away from my books at the moment, or I would check for you.

EDIT: I just got home and checked. I guess I was wrong. Bummer.

AslanCross
2010-11-27, 12:45 AM
The illustrations pretty clearly retain human limbs. You don't gain any extra benefit for the extra limbs, but the whole assumption of the template is that you're playing with rules for limb loss, and if you're doing so then there is a rather obvious situation for wanting more than one limb.

Hmm, I guess that makes more sense, in that case. I wasn't really paying attention to that part. I was trying to understand it by looking at the template again and again.

Sindri
2010-11-27, 03:10 AM
On one hand, immunity to magic, natural armor, and Str increasing are exactly what a sword-and-board fighter needs to fight level 20 magical threats. On the other hand, the Int and Cha penalties are terrible, and don't even make sense fluff-wise unless you fail your save. Ask the GM if you can houserule those as a result of a failed save instead of part of the normal procedure; it's a longshot but they seem pretty lenient on you and if it works it's awesome.

Otherwise, I'd look into the old FF grafts, the Silver Arm of Ergoth (DL War of the Lance book, page 60-61; grants +4 Str, regeneration, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, protection from Str damage/drain), or draconic grafts (since the only downside to those is the ridiculous price).

Of course if you could find a Silithar, they could just rearrange the rest of you to build a new arm with their awesome nanite-surgery powers.

JaronK
2010-11-27, 03:59 AM
Careful: half-golems take a big hit to CHA and INT (-6 each), and if they fail a Will save upon completion of the ritual they lose their CON score (and minds) and become Neutral Evil.

The save thing can be handled by a cheap magic item. 3kgp lets you have a once per encounter use of any Diamond Mind maneuver (ToB), one of which lets you make a concentration check instead of a will save. Get your concentration skill up (there are spells that should do it temporarily) and you can auto pass this save.

JaronK