I don't think Tarquin is a Dashing Swordsman

[Gandariel]

Well, the title says about it all..
Tarquin doesn't seem to be the Dashing Swordsman type:
first of all, he knows how not to be noticed.. he's ruling half a continent without anyone even knowing it!
the Dashing swordsman seems to me more of an action hero, famous and such...
Plus, he's more like a straight fighter (or any other melee, full BAB class)

About the puns...
i saw it this way:
Tarquin is in obvious control of the battle, he's just playing along his son's puns...

Plus, it may be that coming up with EVEN better puns than Elan's nullifies Elan's ability to use Cha for attack rolls?
i know you'll never see this in ANY book, but it sounds likely.. thoughts?

[Thessie]

I think you are right, and I also really hope for it, since I think it would be kind of lame if he is a DS too...

[Dr.Epic]

Plus, he's more like a straight fighter (or any other melee, full BAB class)

We don't know that Dashing Swordsman doesn't get full BAB.

[Bedinsis]

If Tarquin is a Dashing Swordsman, wouldn't Nale have heard of the class before? After Elan gained his level, he seemed quite surprised at his combat ability:

:nale: When the hell did you become reasonably competent in a fight? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html)

That statement sounds in my ears as if he has never seen the class before. But it is of course possible that he meant "When did you gain Dashing Swordsman levels to fight properly?" Or that he, in the heat of the battle, failed to recognize that Elan was using DS abilities. Or that Tarquin never told him about the class/showed it. Or that Tarquin gained his level(s) after Nale left. So in the end, I've contributed with no evidence.

[Dalek-K]

Tarquin is the evil counter part to the Dashing Swordsman!

Paladin v.s Black Gaurd

Positive Energy Cleric v.s Negative Energy Cleric

Monk v.s Chaos Monk (or Drunken Master)

He may have started as bard 1 then decided they suck (and the DM didn't allow for a re-roll) and went Fighter,Crusader,Warblade or some Some weird rogue build*
then into a PrC that is the evil counterpart of the dashing swordsman ... Hell him and Julio (isn't that his name) could have been creating a PrC together and then went separate ways when they realized that they wanted different things.... Thus the fight with the Dino-king or whatever...

*Not multiclassed since Nale got his love for the complicated from his mother not father

[TreesOfDeath]

The Hammy Villian presitge class?


It would kind of make sense....

[Dalek-K]

If it was true then it would cause Elan to have to either master the class or grow even more as a character or class to defeat him, driving up the dramatic battle even further...

However I think Tarquin won't die in a dramatic scene... He will be more like Kubota :D

[The Pilgrim]

I agree that Tarquin is not a Dashing Swordsman.

However, I think it's very probable that Tarquin *knows* about the Dashing Swordsman class. And also *knows* that giving a proper riposte to the DS' puns nullifies the DS bonus.

[AstralFire]

I strongly suspect that if Elan is to win, it'll be through learning how to use his spells.

[Warrior/Mage]

Tarquin can't be a DS.
It says (somewhere...) that the Dashing Swordsman class only gets a bonus when they attack with a rapier and spout a pun, but Tarquin uses a Dagger against Elan, and still bests him easily.

[hamishspence]

It says they get that bonus when they wield a rapier, yes.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html

But it's possible that a rapier isn't the only weapon that can be used, and Julio was simply keeping it simple and mentioning the weapon Elan was proficient in.

[Thanatosia]

Given that he's

a) A martially inclined character focused on combat abilities
b) Knows that the prestige class exists
c) Has a very high Charisma Score
d) Intelligent and Pragmatic enough to optimize his build
c) Shows evidence of using DSM abilities

I think it's pretty hard to make a case for him not having levels in the class, and you'll need some pretty solid evidence to convince me otherwise.

The only point against him being a DSM is using a sword or dagger instead of a Rapier, but that could be got around by either a feat, or by Julio simply listing an incomplete list of compatable weaponry (or the Giant just forgetting the Rapier reference).

To argue that he does not have levels in DSM, you'd have to be working under the assumption that he has awareness of a Prestige Class that would give someone with his unusual stats extreme bonuses and yet chose not to take any levels in it while behaving as if he did. Does not make for a very convincing argument IMO.

[Rakarth]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that there's a fair bit about Tarquin that has yet to be revealed, so...

It may be that DSM is not the only prestige class he has levels in. If you think about all the conquests and conflicts he's been involved in, surely he's gotta be pretty high level by now.

In addition, if he was aware of the DSM class before he was actually able to level in it, it may well be that whatever other classes he has are well-optimised to make better use of the DSM class than Elan's bard levels.

Or there could be other exotic sourcebook like Julio's out there.

[Conuly]

The only point against him being a DSM is using a sword or dagger instead of a Rapier, but that could be got around by either a feat, or by Julio simply listing an incomplete list of compatable weaponry (or the Giant just forgetting the Rapier reference).

Well, that and the fact that Dashing Swordsman was taken from an "obscure" sourcebook from the "bargain bin". It's possible that only Julio and Elan have any recollection of such a class.

[Glome]

Tarquin has switched fighting styles a lot over his career, from two-handed axe to sword and board and now with a dagger and puns.

But unlike Elan who has gone from chain shirt to unarmored, Tarquin still wears medium armor. Between that and using a dagger, I believe Tarquin is probably using the puns to counter Elan's ability. Either that, or he has picked up either a class ability, feat or skill that just happens to also give a pun based bonus to combat.

[NegativeFifteen]

Or he could be, you know, just making puns for the fun of it. Its not all about class abilities, he could just be doing it for his love of the dramatic.

[zyborg]

Maybe that sourcebook is full of charisma-based classes, or has at least one more for Evil characters? I doubt the sourcebook is just about the "Dashing Swordsman" PrC, especially as Julio turned the pages to the middle to show it to Elan.

[Thanatosia]

Or he could be, you know, just making puns for the fun of it. Its not all about class abilities, he could just be doing it for his love of the dramatic.
Let's say there's this super charasmatic character over here casting arcane spells spontaneiously. Now would you come in and claim he's a wizard who just happens to have an unusually high cha score using feats to behave in a way that makes him look like a Sorceror?

Yes, it's Possible he does not have any levels as DSM, but the evidence is strong enough that I think the burden of proof is on him not having that prestige class until more evidence is revealed one way or another.

[SaintRidley]

If Tarquin is a Dashing Swordsman, wouldn't Nale have heard of the class before? After Elan gained his level, he seemed quite surprised at his combat ability:

:nale: When the hell did you become reasonably competent in a fight? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html)

That statement sounds in my ears as if he has never seen the class before. But it is of course possible that he meant "When did you gain Dashing Swordsman levels to fight properly?" Or that he, in the heat of the battle, failed to recognize that Elan was using DS abilities. Or that Tarquin never told him about the class/showed it. Or that Tarquin gained his level(s) after Nale left. So in the end, I've contributed with no evidence.

Or that Tarquin, entering DS after a career in a Full BAB class, was equipped to deal with Nale and his terrible approximation of a Bard without taking Bard without bothering to make use of his DS class features. Because Nale isn't worth expending the dramatic effort.




Tarquin can't be a DS.
It says (somewhere...) that the Dashing Swordsman class only gets a bonus when they attack with a rapier and spout a pun, but Tarquin uses a Dagger against Elan, and still bests him easily.

In the main, it would be gauche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_gauche) of him to use anything but a dagger in this situation.

Chalk it up to a more advanced DS ability, even.

[Dalek-K]

I strongly suspect that if Elan is to win, it'll be through learning how to use his spells.

As with all 3.5 dnd

[The Glyphstone]

Let's say there's this super charasmatic character over here casting arcane spells spontaneiously. Now would you come in and claim he's a wizard who just happens to have an unusually high cha score using feats to behave in a way that makes him look like a Sorceror?

Yes, it's Possible he does not have any levels as DSM, but the evidence is strong enough that I think the burden of proof is on him not having that prestige class until more evidence is revealed one way or another.

Bad analogy - you couldn't observe a caster and know if they were spontaneously casting, or had just prepared the same spell a bunch of times, without metagame knowledge or previously observing their preparation or lack thereof. A better analogy would be looking at an arcane caster who casts several metamagic spells and automatically assuming that he's an Incantatrix.

There isn't any evidence that he is a DSM except that he's making puns, and fending off Elan. The first is in character for hm no matter what class he is, and if he's a full-BAB dedicated melee class (and likely of a higher level), the latter isn't hard either.

[Felhammer]

The opposite of a Dashing Swordsman is a Dread Dictator! :smallbiggrin:

[RaggedAngel]

The opposite of a Dashing Swordsman is a Dread Dictator! :smallbiggrin:

I agree. Tarquin may very well be an evil approximation of the Dashing Swordsman, almost certainly from that same sourcebook. The likelyhood of his pun-based combat being purely for show is pretty low. Tarquin, though dramatic, doesn't seem like the type to do something silly without reason. He's lawful to the core.

[Felixc-91]

There isn't any evidence that he is a DSM except that he's making puns, and fending off Elan. The first is in character for hm no matter what class he is, and if he's a full-BAB dedicated melee class (and likely of a higher level), the latter isn't hard either. I would like to support this point of view, there is no proof that T is a DSM. only hope and the inability to look past the first conclusion that comes to mind... he's dramatic (confirmed) and he is a higher level primary melee class (strong evidence) explains it much better and much simpler. it requires no lying, no links to people we haven't seen in over 400 strips, no even more obscure evil opposite class... occam's razor.

[Thanatosia]

I would like to support this point of view, there is no proof that T is a DSM. only hope and the inability to look past the first conclusion that comes to mind... he's dramatic (confirmed) and he is a higher level primary melee class (strong evidence) explains it much better and much simpler. it requires no lying, no links to people we haven't seen in over 400 strips, no even more obscure evil opposite class... occam's razor.
You are ignoring a high charisma score - something of very marginal usefulness for a fighter type normally that suddenly becomes a huge advantage if he has DSM levels, combined with an obvious familiarity with the class.

Occams razor suggests to me that it is more likely that someone showing evidence of a prestige class functionality combined with knowledge of that prestige class combined with a stat layout optimal for that prestige class probably has that prestige class.

I see now that the main argument against him being a DSM has less to do with his weapon choice then the Prestige Classes "Obscurity". But when Elan made his first Pun Strike, Tarquin acknowledged that he gave Elan the "Prerequisite" to that manuever by setting him up for the pun used. Meaning he knew full well that the Pun was not just something Elan happened to say while striking, but was an integral part of his ABILITY to strike. That in turn strongly implies knowledge of the Prestige Class being used, which means the Classes "Obscurity" cannot be used as a mark against him having it in any Occam's Razor argument.

[Felixc-91]

You are ignoring a high charisma score - something of very marginal usefulness for a fighter type normally that suddenly becomes a huge advantage if he has DSM levels, combined with an obvious familiarity with the class.

Occams razor suggests to me that it is more likely that someone showing evidence of a prestige class functionality combined with knowledge of that prestige class combined with a stat layout optimal for that prestige class probably has that prestige class.

I see now that the main argument against him being a DSM has less to do with his weapon choice then the Prestige Classes "Obscurity". But when Elan made his first Pun Strike, Tarquin acknowledged that he gave Elan the "Prerequisite" to that manuever by setting him up for the pun used. Meaning he knew full well that the Pun was not just something Elan happened to say while striking, but was an integral part of his ABILITY to strike. That in turn strongly implies knowledge of the Prestige Class being used, which means the Classes "Obscurity" cannot be used as a mark against him having it in any Occam's Razor argument.his only obvious familiarity is with the dramatic, while he might be familiar with how it extends to effect the DSM class. and we have no idea if he has the optimal lay out for that prestige class, all we know is he has excellent charisma, there is no evidence that he has a low strength score. so usable, not optimal. and about his first pun, he gave E the prerequisite for an offspring attack, because E is T's son. while T might be countering the effects of the DSM, you have no evidence of that because the class gives a bonus to damage, not attack. meaning it has no standing with his chances to hit.

[littlekKID]

Given that he's

a) A martially inclined character focused on combat abilities
b) Knows that the prestige class exists
c) Has a very high Charisma Score
d) Intelligent and Pragmatic enough to optimize his build
c) Shows evidence of using DSM abilities

I think it's pretty hard to make a case for him not having levels in the class, and you'll need some pretty solid evidence to convince me otherwise.

The only point against him being a DSM is using a sword or dagger instead of a Rapier, but that could be got around by either a feat, or by Julio simply listing an incomplete list of compatable weaponry (or the Giant just forgetting the Rapier reference).

To argue that he does not have levels in DSM, you'd have to be working under the assumption that he has awareness of a Prestige Class that would give someone with his unusual stats extreme bonuses and yet chose not to take any levels in it while behaving as if he did. Does not make for a very convincing argument IMO.

I think that most people don't belive Tarquin to be a Dashing Swordsman becuase most fan-made stats to the DS class say that only good\nonlawful characters can become DS (despite Rich never saying that), so since Tarquin is LE, people have a hard time beliving that he's a DS

[M.A.D]

If Tarquin is a Dashing Swordsman, wouldn't Nale have heard of the class before? After Elan gained his level, he seemed quite surprised at his combat ability:

:nale: When the hell did you become reasonably competent in a fight? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html)

That statement sounds in my ears as if he has never seen the class before. But it is of course possible that he meant "When did you gain Dashing Swordsman levels to fight properly?" Or that he, in the heat of the battle, failed to recognize that Elan was usiing DS abilities. Or that Tarquin never told him about the class/showed it. Or that Tarquin gained his level(s) after Nale left. So in the end, I've contributed with no evidence.

Notice that he said "reasonably competent". The only class available for Elan to be competent in fighting in such a short time should be Dashing Swordsman, which is quite reasonable


Tarquin is the evil counter part to the Dashing Swordsman!

Paladin v.s Black Gaurd

Positive Energy Cleric v.s Negative Energy Cleric

Monk v.s Chaos Monk (or Drunken Master)

He may have started as bard 1 then decided they suck (and the DM didn't allow for a re-roll) and went Fighter,Crusader,Warblade or some Some weird rogue build*
then into a PrC that is the evil counterpart of the dashing swordsman ... Hell him and Julio (isn't that his name) could have been creating a PrC together and then went separate ways when they realized that they wanted different things.... Thus the fight with the Dino-king or whatever...

*Not multiclassed since Nale got his love for the complicated from his mother not father

How 'bout "Evil Overlord"? Dashing Swordsmen tend to have issues with those kind of people, with or without the involvement of his father's death of a kidnapped beauty


I agree that Tarquin is not a Dashing Swordsman.

However, I think it's very probable that Tarquin *knows* about the Dashing Swordsman class. And also *knows* that giving a proper riposte to the DS' puns nullifies the DS bonus.

It's not completely confirmed that giving a proper riposte to the DS nullifies the bonus. If T were a DS, he could be giving himself the bonus like he's always been. See my thoughts above about how Nale could have recognized the class.


Tarquin can't be a DS.
It says (somewhere...) that the Dashing Swordsman class only gets a bonus when they attack with a rapier and spout a pun, but Tarquin uses a Dagger against Elan, and still bests him easily.

Like many have said, saying it like that doesn't necessary mean that rapier is the only weapon available for DS. But if different weapons are allowed, then at the very least that weapon should be able to be wielded dashingly, meaning it has to be light. Like a dagger.

[Zain]

It's also possible that the Aptitude weapon enchantment allows Tarquin to apply a pun bonus to his attacks with his dagger, I mean, he is the Head General, and leader, of a large nation, he probably has a magic back-up weapon.

Also, I agree that he is either a Evil-version of a DS, or possibly because we don't know the details of the book it was in, A sort of "Power behind the Throne" type PRC, although if he's as smart as he seems to be, it might have simply dipped into DS for the CHA to attack.

[Warrior/Mage]

I'm under the impression his class is more like a 'Cliched Villain' class.
Similar to Elan, but evil
...And Old.
OK, never mind, ignore that last bit.

The fact could just be he just wanted a concealed weapon, to instill confidence into his people at the parade, or was simply confident enough of his combat skills without bonuses from the DS

[Cronos988]

I do not think that him wielding a dagger is an argument against the DS class.

It is true that for the offensive capabilities of a DS, a rapier seems to be the weapon of choice. Not only dies Julio say that, he also uses only rapiers.

However, the Giant uses a lot of fencing-specific language in that last strip. That means he either knows or at least researched fencing. In that context, it seems completely logical for Tarquin to use a dagger to fend of fencing attacks.

Since the Dashing Swordsman uses fencing tactics to attack, it makes perfect sense that it also uses them for defense. Furthermore, a fencing duel is the classical setting for a hero to use his charisma and his puns while fighting a villain.

A Dagger as a blocking weapon fits in perfectly with the DS theme. So that is evidence in favor, not against, some kind of dashing swordsman.

The armor definetly does not seem to fit. But let us not forget that this armor is one of T's trademarks, so that might just be there for character recognition instead of any practical impact.

The alignment issue can easily be overcome with an evil counter-class, which also fits perfectly fine into the whole DS theme.

The only real counter-argument I can see is that it is so obvious that it may well be a red herring to fool all of us.

[137beth]

It seems more dramatic that the class which until now has worked entirely to Elan's advantage is now possessed by his evil father, and is being used against him.

OR maybe Tarquin is pretending to have the DS prestige class just to make it seem more dramatic:smallsmile:

[Xephalo]

I personally don't think that Tarquin is a Dashing Swordsman. I just figured that he's not actually trying to hurt Elan, saw he was making puns in combat and decided to have a little fun while easily fending his son off.

[Gandariel]

First of all: He doesn't know of this class.
there's no evidence of it.
or maybe he knows it, but surely he's NOT a Dashing Swordsman.

he's completely the contrary of the Dashing Swordsman:
1) he wears armor!
2) he uses a dagger (and he USED a sword)
3) he is LAWFUL EVIL (and the DS class really screams both Good and Chaotic...)
4) maybe you didn't notice...
Tarquin has NOT attacked, even once.
he is just blocking Elan's attacks (and countering him)

(do you REALLY think he has spent 5-6 rounds and NOT hit an unarmored opponent even once?)

[Doxkid]

You are ignoring a high charisma score - something of very marginal usefulness for a fighter type normally that suddenly becomes a huge advantage if he has DSM levels, combined with an obvious familiarity with the class.

Occams razor suggests to me that it is more likely that someone showing evidence of a prestige class functionality combined with knowledge of that prestige class combined with a stat layout optimal for that prestige class probably has that prestige class.

I see now that the main argument against him being a DSM has less to do with his weapon choice then the Prestige Classes "Obscurity". But when Elan made his first Pun Strike, Tarquin acknowledged that he gave Elan the "Prerequisite" to that manuever by setting him up for the pun used. Meaning he knew full well that the Pun was not just something Elan happened to say while striking, but was an integral part of his ABILITY to strike. That in turn strongly implies knowledge of the Prestige Class being used, which means the Classes "Obscurity" cannot be used as a mark against him having it in any Occam's Razor argument.

Oh? You absolutely have to put high ability scores to use? It's a good thing Roy took levels in sorcerer, wizard and cleric then. You know, because he has balanced high mental scores (Probably in the range of 14-17 for each).

T’s familiarity with the Dashing Swordsman PrC is debatable. As he has not said anything directly alluding to this, assuming he is familiar with it would not be logical.

Now then…let’s see

But when Elan made his first Pun Strike, Tarquin acknowledged that he gave Elan the "Prerequisite" to that manuever by setting him up for the pun used. Meaning he knew full well that the Pun was not just something Elan happened to say while striking, but was an integral part of his ABILITY to strike.


That is one way of interpreting his use of wordplay, yes. Another would be that his (intelligence and/or charisma) allowed him to identify the literal and the figurative meaning of what Elan said and he then used his high (Intelligence and/or Charisma) to craft a response based on this. Upon doing so, his flair for drama encouraged him to actively participate in exchange of puns. *

Meanwhile, he is parrying Elan’s attacks.

*
It is fairly safe to assume he is using his high charisma modifier here, though it would be unwise to preclude other ability scores, or perhaps even bluff, sense motive and other skill checks being used. There might not be a check at all, unrolled or rolled, or perhaps it was incorporated into their combat rolls somehow…
*

The two could be unrelated and there is no direct evidence saying that they are related. He does not say “Ah, you have become a dashing swordsman, like your old dad, eh Elan? I will also use puns then and, in doing so, display my master of our shared class.” does he?

There are many ‘simplest’ answers for this. The one you offer is: x+y=z, where X is the use of puns/high charisma, Y is combat prowess and Z is a class. Another is mine: x+y= x+y. Until we get more information, all we know is X+Y=X+Y.
-----
Are 3.5 classes the only fair game for Tarquin's class? If not, there are many many possibilities for his class...if he is seen casting a spell we can shorten the lists.

[Jagos]

Given that he's

a) A martially inclined character focused on combat abilities
b) Knows that the prestige class exists
c) Has a very high Charisma Score
d) Intelligent and Pragmatic enough to optimize his build
c) Shows evidence of using DSM abilities

I think it's pretty hard to make a case for him not having levels in the class, and you'll need some pretty solid evidence to convince me otherwise.

The only point against him being a DSM is using a sword or dagger instead of a Rapier, but that could be got around by either a feat, or by Julio simply listing an incomplete list of compatable weaponry (or the Giant just forgetting the Rapier reference).

To argue that he does not have levels in DSM, you'd have to be working under the assumption that he has awareness of a Prestige Class that would give someone with his unusual stats extreme bonuses and yet chose not to take any levels in it while behaving as if he did. Does not make for a very convincing argument IMO.

Geez, why do people miss the obvious reason?

He's Genre Savvy enough to give Elan a chance to prove his worth. He knows he's good enough to beat his son, but has anyone noticed he hasn't really tried to fight back?

Come on, he loves his son but no way in hell is he getting defeated now.

[megabyter5]

Since Tarquin appears to have several means by which he is able to fight, I hereby propose a new, alternative theory to what sort of prestige class he may have: Something that allows him to emulate the class features of anyone he fights one on one. This would allow him to use DS abilities without being a DS, and would be very dramatically appropriate for a villain of his style. Perhaps a "Worthy Opponent" class?

[Bedinsis]

Since Tarquin appears to have several means by which he is able to fight, I hereby propose a new, alternative theory to what sort of prestige class he may have: Something that allows him to emulate the class features of anyone he fights one on one. This would allow him to use DS abilities without being a DS, and would be very dramatically appropriate for a villain of his style. Perhaps a "Worthy Opponent" class?

I like this idea. I don't think it will turn out to be true, but I like it.

[Gandariel]

i really don't see how you guys keep inventing prestige classes for Tarquin, when he has done NOTHING in the whole strip.

-Has anything ever been mentioned about his class? Nothing.
The only evidence we have is the scene of him fighting Nale, and the fact that he uses armor. he's clearly a fighting guy; thus he has class levels in some unspecified melee class (maybe fighter, or something else)

-Has he ever shown to know about the Dashing Swordsman class? NO!
he has only answered his son's puns (and he even thought Elan was only a Bard). (and by the way, since he has never attacked, you can't say he used the pun ability to use his Cha score for ATTACK...)


Plus, he has NEVER shown to have any Dashing Swordsman abilities
really, he has done NOTHING. he hasn't used ANY ability.

Maybe he has such abilities, and WHEN he will show them, i'll agree with you

[orrion]

The reason I don't think Tarquin is a DS is pretty simple.

Nothing flat-out says he is.

Now yes, Rich is fond of obscuration, but if he really wanted us to believe Tarquin was a DS, I think he'd have managed to insert it outright somewhere for the simple "wham" factor. At the moment, it seems like it's less of a "wham" and more of a "huh, what".

Of course, he could still be setting up the "wham," I suppose, but since the sword battle is over for the moment, the ideal moment would seem to have passed.

[lothos]

In my opinion there is no clear evidence. However I personally think Tarquin does have levels in Dashing Swordsman.

I don't really see why a Dashing Swordsman needs to be non-Lawful, though I can understand why some people might think that. That doesn't prove he DOES have levels, I just can't see any reason to say he can't and the wordplay does seem consistent.

I could believe the suggestion posted earlier that he knows of some method by replying to a DSM's comments with his own riposte that nullifies Elan's attack bonuses.... that's certainly credible.

I'm just expecting that he is a DSM, because I'm waiting for Julio Scoundrel to show up and deactivate the tractor beam release them from the Empire of Blood, then announce that Tarquin was a pupil of his, until he turned to Evil (or before he found out he was evil) and that since Elan is his padawan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html), he must now dual darth tarquin using a light sabre weapon because it's dramatically appropriate.

OK, so maybe I'm just extending a series of barely related jokes together and seeing a pattern that isn't there. After alll, Julio did say he didn't want to see Elan again because the likelihood was that Elan would cradle his dying body in his arms while swearing revenge..... so the above may well not happen, but I'm still kind of expecting it.

Cheers.

[Conuly]

Today's dialog indicates to me that he probably has heard of the Dashing Swordsman (or at least other classes that pun-duel... whatever they might be???) but that he probably isn't one.

[Gandariel]

oh, look at that..

i was right :D

[grimbold]

We don't know that Dashing Swordsman doesn't get full BAB.

actually i imagined them as a more combat focused bard
so if homebrewing this class i would give it full BAB

[TreesOfDeath]

So what about that theory that he might just simply be some evil mirror of the Dashing Swordman class?

[lothos]

Yeah,
he probably isn't a dashing swordsman. However it still leaves me wondering who he was fighting when he learnt to nullify puns used by a dashing swordsman.....

maybe he did fight Julio Scoundrel....

[Conuly]

Maybe Dashing Swordspeople aren't the only ones who use puns in combat.

[lindorm]

Maybe Dashing Swordspeople aren't the only ones who use puns in combat.
Pirates (and Captain Rottingham) frequently do.
And most of the pirates, not to mention the captain, seem to lack the CHA required for the class.