Haley's Dad

[Wloire]

So I've been wondering about this for a while now (aparently I take OotS too seriously).

This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html) comic mentions that Haley's dad has been incarcerated in Tyrinaria and we now know that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html) the team is currently standing in Tyrinaria. Does Haley know this yet and I missed it? Does Elan know about Haley's dad? Are one of the two gladiator slaves talking to Roy Haley's dad and thats why we learnt their names?

I seem to be in need of re-reading the comic.

[Morquard]

Yes, to pretty much everything, except that Haley knows where they are.

I don't find the strip right now, but Haley filled Elan in on where her dad is being held, I think it was before or in the map-maker tent. thats how he recognized the name 2 strips ago.
And the gladiator named Ian is her dad.

[slayerx]

Haley does not know this was where tyrania was.
we learned Haley told Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0680.html) about her dad (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html) back when they first got to the western continent.
Also we know that Haley's father is named Ian Starshine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html) and he used to have "red" hair

[Cizak]

Yeah, not to be mean, but you need to go back and re-read.

Don't worry though, I've been there too. When Belkar's MoJ got activated, I had no idea what it was.

[Morquard]

No 680 is just where she mentions it again, it's here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) where she's actually telling him

[NerfTW]

Are one of the two gladiator slaves talking to Roy Haley's dad and thats why we learnt their names?

I seem to be in need of re-reading the comic.

YES.

Ian is Haley's dad, Geoff is her uncle. This is the first we've heard of Geoff, though. Ian's name was mentioned prominently in the note way back at the inn, and during the thieves guild storyline. Presumably, we now know what caused him to go running off to the Western continent in the first place.

[megabyter5]

Roy and Belkar know: Someone named Ian is imprisoned with them.

Elan knows: Ian Starshine, Haley's father, is imprisoned somewhere in the Empire of Blood.

Haley knows: Her father is imprisoned somewhere on the Western Continent.

V knows: Friggin' nothing.

[hamishspence]

YES.

Ian is Haley's dad, Geoff is her uncle.

Actually, Geoff is her dad's brother in law.

We don't know if he's her uncle though- if her dad has remarried, he could be her stepmother's brother.

[kossuth's_spark]

Roy and Belkar know: Someone named Ian is imprisoned with them.

Elan knows: Ian Starshine, Haley's father, is imprisoned somewhere in the Empire of Blood.

Haley knows: Her father is imprisoned somewhere on the Western Continent.

V knows: Friggin' nothing.

for some reason, it seems wrong to me that V would know absolutely nothing about all this.

[hamishspence]

There were quite a few possibilities for Geoff.

Her mother's brother (making him an "uncle by blood")
The husband of her father's sister (making him an "uncle by marriage")
And, as previously mentioned, her "stepmother's brother".

[slayerx]

There were quite a few possibilities for Geoff.

Her mother's brother (making him an "uncle by blood")
The husband of her father's sister (making him an "uncle by marriage")
And, as previously mentioned, her "stepmother's brother".

Which in all cases i think still means Geoff, can be conisdering Haley's uncle for all intents and purposes

[hamishspence]

Wouldn't the last one be "step-uncle"? Since there would be no connection to Haley?

because he's neither a relative, nor married to a relative- but only a relative of a step-parent?

[NerfTW]

Actually, Geoff is her dad's brother in law.

We don't know if he's her uncle though- if her dad has remarried, he could be her stepmother's brother.

That would still make him her uncle, actually. Or step uncle. You're splitting hairs there. Consider, for instance, if your uncle marries a woman after you're born. You still call that woman your aunt. Same situation.

[hamishspence]

True. "Uncle by blood" "uncle by marriage" and "step-uncle" are a bit different though.

[NerfTW]

They're really not, at least in English.

[hamishspence]

It is a bit odd that "aunt" and "uncle" can be by marriage, whereas most of the others, require blood connection.

One would never call a stepmother or stepfather's parents "grandparents" or even "step-grandparents".

So why would one's stepmother's siblings, be "uncles and aunts" or even "step-uncles and aunts"?

[megabyter5]

for some reason, it seems wrong to me that V would know absolutely nothing about all this.

IIRC, when Haley told Elan about her father she specifically said that not even V knew.

[NerfTW]

One would never call a stepmother or stepfather's parents "grandparents" or even "step-grandparents".


And once again, that seems entirely personal taste. I would say the opposite. Very rarely have I seen children not refer to their step parent's parents as grandparents. The only reason for "step" in immediate families is because of the issue of multiples of one parent. Once you go beyond your siblings, parents, and children, you're in the territory where there's no difference.

One can have multiple uncles, aunts, cousins, and grandparents with biological parents, and no distinction is made between aunts and uncles who aren't biologically related.

[hamishspence]

Maybe. Still, it might depend on how close one was to the step-parent and their family.

[Morquard]

It is a bit odd that "aunt" and "uncle" can be by marriage, whereas most of the others, require blood connection.

One would never call a stepmother or stepfather's parents "grandparents" or even "step-grandparents".

I think that depends.
If the mother died while the kids where very young, and the father married again later, its quite possible, they call the "step-grandparents" grandparents.

If the kids are 18, the parents get divorced because daddy cheated on his wife with his younger secretary (who's just a few years older than the kids themselves) and marries her, then I sincerely doubt they'd call the parents of that step-mother grandparents.

[hamishspence]

True- it's something of an overstatement, and could be modified by how close the children are to their step-parent and their step-parent's family.

If Haley's dad remarried though while in Tyrinaria, Haley hasn't even met her stepmother, much less the family. If Haley were to meet Ian & Geoff, and Ian were to introduce Geoff as her stepmother's brother, I find it hard to imagine her calling Geoff "Uncle" very quickly.

[Cizak]

If Haley's dad remarried though while in Tyrinaria, Haley hasn't even met her stepmother, much less the family.

Um, I think it'd be kinda hard for him to marry someone. You know, with being in jail and all.

[hamishspence]

Hard, but not impossible. It might be a more informal marriage where him and another prisoner join hands and a third prisoner says "you are wed".

Or, there might have been a noticable gap between him arriving on the Western Continent, and Lord Tyrinar imprisoning him- which might have involved him meeting up with some rebels, which could include Geoff.

[Cizak]

Point. It's just that when someone says "they got married" I'm thinking that they actually did get married, "for real", and not just said "we are now married".

[hamishspence]

Maybe one of the prisoners is a cleric and they did get married for real?

Of course, it's possible that Haley has no stepmother, and Geoff is connected in some different way.

[Cizak]

Maybe one of the prisoners is a cleric and they did get married for real?

Good point, didn't think of that.

[hamishspence]

Given that Geoff is darker-skinned than Haley or Haley's dad, does this imply anything?

Like, that:

"Haley has a step-mom and she has a brother called Geoff"
or
"Haley's dad has a sister and the sister has a husband called Geoff"

could be more plausible than:

"Haley's mom has a brother called Geoff"?

That said, we've never seen Haley's mom, so conclusions as to likelihood, may be premature.

[The Linker]

IIRC, when Haley told Elan about her father she specifically said that not even V knew.

Naw, she mentioned that even V didn't know about some super-secret fact that was cut off by Elan blathering (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html). We still don't know what it is that V doesn't know yet.

[martianmister]

V knows: Friggin' nothing.

No.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html

According to this, V knows everything except last one.

[NerfTW]

True- it's something of an overstatement, and could be modified by how close the children are to their step-parent and their step-parent's family.

If Haley's dad remarried though while in Tyrinaria, Haley hasn't even met her stepmother, much less the family. If Haley were to meet Ian & Geoff, and Ian were to introduce Geoff as her stepmother's brother, I find it hard to imagine her calling Geoff "Uncle" very quickly.

I think you're dragging this into pedantry. If Ian is married to Geoff's sister, Geoff is Haley's uncle. This whole argument of when the marriage might have occurred and how Haley would feel about it is simply ridiculous nit picking. He's her uncle, by every definition of the word, no matter what your personal views on remarriage are.

[leakingpen]

Doh, i completely missed that Ian the gladiator is her dad. I feel stupids....


however, that being the case. since raising money to release her dad is why she is still adventuring, Tarquin won't release him, in order to force her to continue the quest.

[malloyd]

Point. It's just that when someone says "they got married" I'm thinking that they actually did get married, "for real", and not just said "we are now married".

Er, that *is* how you get married in most cultures. Where are you from? Certainly it's the sacramentally valid Christian form - "per verba de presenti" and retained by a fair number of nations law codes. In systems decended from English law the relevant phrase is "common law marriage" - if you both say you are married and neither of you is already, then it happens right then.

[Felixc-91]

Doh, i completely missed that Ian the gladiator is her dad. I feel stupids....


however, that being the case. since raising money to release her dad is why she is still adventuring, Tarquin won't release him, in order to force her to continue the quest.soooo not necesary (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html)

[NerfTW]

Doh, i completely missed that Ian the gladiator is her dad. I feel stupids....


however, that being the case. since raising money to release her dad is why she is still adventuring, Tarquin won't release him, in order to force her to continue the quest.

Sure, if Haley is a completely two dimensional character oriented on one goal and only that one goal to the exclusion of all others...

Which she has repeatedly shown not to be. Otherwise, she'd have dumped Roy's corpse and Belkar first chance she got.