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Kalaska'Agathas
2010-11-26, 01:16 AM
I'm building a backup character for a campaign I'm joining. I want to build a skilled arcanist who makes his living being an assassin, investigator, spy, and information broker. It seems to me the best way to do this is with the feat Master Spellthief and levels in Unseen Seer. I'd like to get all ten levels of Unseen Seer in this build, if possible, along with three levels of Shadowcraft Mage. The other levels might just be Wizard, though if I could get martial weapon proficiency and higher BAB without losing too many caster levels (this build remains primarily an arcanist, and therefore should have ninth level spells) that would be nice.

I don't plan on sneak attacking with rays, at least not primarily. Rather, I was thinking I would use crossbows to snipe away and maybe two weapon fighting for melee. I'd use my magic to buff myself, gain more sneak attack dice (via Hunter's Eye), and get away clean.

For my feats, I was thinking I'd take Master Spellthief, Spell Focus (Illusion), Heighten Spell, Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Signature Spell (Silent Image), and maybe Weapon Finesse, Crossbow Sniper, and TWF (which has been reduced to one feat, rather than several). I'd also like to fit in Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Research, and Investigate if I can.

For my race, I have three free LA to play with, but I'd like to be a Human or Changeling, with templates. Shadow Creature seems like it would be good for this build, but I'm open to other options.

What suggestions would you have, fellow playgrounders?

piemaester
2010-11-26, 01:52 AM
I played a similar build once and I must suggest Beguiler. Its major weakness is no attack spells, such as rays. But since you don't plan on using these, Beguiler sounds perfect.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-11-26, 01:56 AM
I considered Beguiler, but it doesn't get the ability to steal spells, which is pretty nifty. Also, I'd rather have a bit more flexible a spell list than the Beguiler gets. Also, I've played a Beguiler before, and would like to try something different.

piemaester
2010-11-26, 02:05 AM
I was suggesting to use the master spellthief feat with beguiler. But thats ok. I don't know how you could get martial weapons with out a non-caster level dip using the criteria you want. And the shadow template is awesome. Hide in Plain Sight is very fun to have at low levels.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-11-26, 02:16 AM
Ah, I see. Still, I'd rather have the expanded spell list of the Wizard compared to the Beguiler's focus on Enchanting (though it would have good illusion synergy with the Shadowcraft Mage).

As far as the Martial Weapon Proficiency, is there a +1 LA template that changes your type to Outsider? That'd net me what I need.

piemaester
2010-11-26, 02:25 AM
I don't know, but another part of the build I did was get an improved familiar. It is so helpfull to have a tiny critter to run around in places I couldn't, but was an outsider with alter-self....

Dusk Eclipse
2010-11-26, 03:27 AM
There is an item in the Magic Item compendium called gloves of the balanced hand, they give TWF when wearing them (or ITWF if you already have TWF) ask your DM how would they change considering the houserule of the feat tree.

Having that item helps you with the feat tax if you want to be a melee skill-gish.

Also I sugges you avoid the crossbow, in order to be a decent crossbower you would need to devote a big amount of feats towards that goal.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Concerning the LA +1, not a race but both Aasimars and Tiefling are outsiders, and per the type rules they are automatically proficient with all weapons (minus exotic of course). Tiefling in particular has a nice set of ability modifiers that might help you +2 int +2 dex -2 cha.

true_shinken
2010-11-26, 09:58 AM
Master Spellthief + Unseen Seer is a powerful option. I advise illumian as a race; if you have free LA, grab the dark template as well. Also, read this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867410/Master_Spellthief_%28a_mini-guide%29).
EDIT: Wait, three free la?!

Private-Prinny
2010-11-26, 10:12 AM
If you're going to take the Master Spellthief feat, just be careful of this clause.

At any one time, a spellthief can possess a maximum number of stolen spell levels equal to his class level (treat 0-level spells as 1/2 level for this purpose). For instance, a 4th-level spellthief can have two stolen 2nd-level spells, or one 2nd-level spell and two 1st-level spells, or any other combination of 0-level, 1st-level, and 2nd-level spells totaling four levels. If he steals a spell that would cause him to exceed this limit, he must choose to lose stolen spells sufficient to reduce his total number of stolen spell levels to no more than his maximum.

Meaning if you are a Spellthief 5/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 10, for example, you technically have the ability to steal 9th level spells, but you can't hold anything more than 5th. It still denies them the spell, and you can still pull off CL shenanigans, but you can't keep a handle on the most powerful spells unless you take at least 9 levels in Spellthief.

true_shinken
2010-11-26, 10:15 AM
Meaning if you are a Spellthief 5/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 10, for example, you technically have the ability to steal 9th level spells, but you can't hold anything more than 5th. It still denies them the spell, and you can still pull off CL shenanigans, but you can't keep a handle on the most powerful spells unless you take at least 9 levels in Spellthief.

You could just burn it for Arcane Strike or some other spell burning shenanigans, though.

Private-Prinny
2010-11-26, 10:19 AM
You could just burn it for Arcane Strike or some other spell burning shenanigans, though.

Unfortunately no, since by all appearances the spell loss happens instantly. You essentially never have it to begin with. Burning stolen spells for Arcane Strike to make room for the more powerful spell you're about to steal, on the other hand, is a very sound tactic.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-11-26, 02:04 PM
Master Spellthief + Unseen Seer is a powerful option. I advise illumian as a race; if you have free LA, grab the dark template as well. Also, read this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867410/Master_Spellthief_%28a_mini-guide%29).
EDIT: Wait, three free la?!

Yeah, we've got three free LA. I prefer the Shadow Creature template to the Dark Template for this build, as it provides more benefits (evasion, fast healing, etc.) than the Dark Template.


If you're going to take the Master Spellthief feat, just be careful of this clause.


Meaning if you are a Spellthief 5/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 10, for example, you technically have the ability to steal 9th level spells, but you can't hold anything more than 5th. It still denies them the spell, and you can still pull off CL shenanigans, but you can't keep a handle on the most powerful spells unless you take at least 9 levels in Spellthief.

My DM decided that with Master Spellthief, I can steal up to my caster level wort of spells.


There is an item in the Magic Item compendium called gloves of the balanced hand, they give TWF when wearing them (or ITWF if you already have TWF) ask your DM how would they change considering the houserule of the feat tree.

Having that item helps you with the feat tax if you want to be a melee skill-gish.

Also I sugges you avoid the crossbow, in order to be a decent crossbower you would need to devote a big amount of feats towards that goal.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Concerning the LA +1, not a race but both Aasimars and Tiefling are outsiders, and per the type rules they are automatically proficient with all weapons (minus exotic of course). Tiefling in particular has a nice set of ability modifiers that might help you +2 int +2 dex -2 cha.

I'll check out the Gloves of the Balanced Hand. What feats do I need to be a decent crossbowman? And what other options have I? I'm limited to simple weapons unless I can find a way to get martial weapon proficiencies. I'd thought about going planetouched for the outsider type, but if there's a way to do it otherwise I'd prefer it.