So... are dragonwrought kobolds dragons?

[A Ladder]

What I'm wondering is if they get special "breath" weapon types?

Dragonwrought makes kobolds dragons (subtype). Does that make them belch different types of stuff from thier mouths?

Because Dragonfire Inspiration gives bards the ability to add fire damage to thier attacks, unless they have a dragon subtype (I can't remember the exact wording and my books are at home...) they can substitute that type of breath damage instead of fire. Which is why people recommend Sonic damage for the no resistance. Does dragonwrought allow you to get a "type" of dragonfire? If it does I don't have to burn a feat and a level in sorcerer for fun DFI stuff.

TL;DR Dragonwrought - does it give different "fire" damage to dragonfire inspiration due to thier type of dragon?

[Nate the Snake]

Yes, Dragonwrought kobolds are dragons; the feat grants the Dragon type. No, they do not have a breath weapon; the bonus damage from Dragonfire Inspiration will be fire by default unless you change it with Draconic Heritage.

[JaronK]

What I'm wondering is if they get special "breath" weapon types?

Dragonwrought makes kobolds dragons (subtype). Does that make them belch different types of stuff from thier mouths?

No. Being able to breath fire is not an aspect of True Dragons, and does not come along with the Dragon type. There's actually a number of True Dragons that lack breath weapons entirely.


Because Dragonfire Inspiration gives bards the ability to add fire damage to thier attacks, unless they have a dragon subtype (I can't remember the exact wording and my books are at home...) they can substitute that type of breath damage instead of fire. Which is why people recommend Sonic damage for the no resistance. Does dragonwrought allow you to get a "type" of dragonfire? If it does I don't have to burn a feat and a level in sorcerer for fun DFI stuff.

This, however, probably does work. In the beginning of the Kobold section of Races of the Dragon, it says that all Dragonwrought Kobolds do indeed have a type (metallic or chromatic, your choice... it's in the age categories table). So you can pick a type (that doesn't give them a breath weapon, but it would let them match up to a type of dragon). However, sonic may not be available, as there's a strong implication that only metallics and chromatics are valid choices, and IIRC there are no sonic spitting ones.

JaronK

[Dusk Eclipse]

That is oppening a whole can of wyrms.... but yeah RAW dragonwrought kobolds have the dragon type and all the goodies (and drawbacks) that that implies.

Note it is mostly used to get the sovereing archetypes (Dragons of Eberron) or to get those tasty little mental stat boosts.

[JaronK]

He's not even asking about the archetypes though... just breath weapons. Breath weapons themselves aren't inherent to the dragon type.

JaronK

[Dusk Eclipse]

Rolled a nat 1 on my Reading comprehension check:smallredface:.

[A Ladder]

He's not even asking about the archetypes though... just breath weapons. Breath weapons themselves aren't inherent to the dragon type.

JaronK
I'm not so much worried about breath weapons I just couldnt think of how to word my question.


This, however, probably does work. In the beginning of the Kobold section of Races of the Dragon, it says that all Dragonwrought Kobolds do indeed have a type (metallic or chromatic, your choice... it's in the age categories table). So you can pick a type (that doesn't give them a breath weapon, but it would let them match up to a type of dragon). However, sonic may not be available, as there's a strong implication that only metallics and chromatics are valid choices, and IIRC there are no sonic spitting ones.

JaronK
Here is what I was looking for "type of dragon".
Do the metallic dragons give types other than fire? I just want DFI to not be fire (since it's easily resisted)

[Psyren]

Here is what I was looking for "type of dragon".
Do the metallic dragons give types other than fire? I just want DFI to not be fire (since it's easily resisted)

Sure - silver are cold for instance.

[A Ladder]

Sure - silver are cold for instance.

sweet.

thanks everyone!

[Tytalus]

This, however, probably does work. In the beginning of the Kobold section of Races of the Dragon, it says that all Dragonwrought Kobolds do indeed have a type (metallic or chromatic, your choice... it's in the age categories table). So you can pick a type (that doesn't give them a breath weapon, but it would let them match up to a type of dragon). However, sonic may not be available, as there's a strong implication that only metallics and chromatics are valid choices, and IIRC there are no sonic spitting ones.


No, it does not. The feat (Dragonfire Inspiration) is very specific under which circumstances you get to use a different energy form: "If you have the Draconic Heritage feat or if you are a half-dragon, the extra damage is of the energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) that corresponds to your heritage or your draconic parent instead." Dragonwrought kobolds do not qualify.

[AstralFire]

That is oppening a whole can of wyrms...

I see what you did there, Mister.

[Heliomance]

No, it does not. The feat (Dragonfire Inspiration) is very specific under which circumstances you get to use a different energy form: "If you have the Draconic Heritage feat or if you are a half-dragon, the extra damage is of the energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) that corresponds to your heritage or your draconic parent instead." Dragonwrought kobolds do not qualify.

This does, incidentally, lead to the slightly stupid result that true dragons are not technically eligible for Dragonfire Inspiration.

[n00b killa]

I think it should work. By RAI, at least.

They are dragons, after all...

[hamishspence]

This does, incidentally, lead to the slightly stupid result that true dragons are not technically eligible for Dragonfire Inspiration.

To paraphrase OoTS 555:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html

A true dragon is a half-dragon. Other half, also dragon. :smallamused:

[panaikhan]

Using the dragon-blood sorceror substitution levels gives the caster the ability to sacrifice spells to get a 'breath weapon'.
I'm not sure if this can act as the pre-requisite for breath-related feats (would be cool if it could tho)

Edit - might be Dragonheart Mage that does this. Away from my books

[hydraa]

you can make a faux breath weapon with the draconic rite of passage using one of the orb spells.

house rule that they are proficient in using their tounge to do the somatic part for there draconic rite spell and the orb apparently comes from thier mouth

[Bayar]

No, it does not. The feat (Dragonfire Inspiration) is very specific under which circumstances you get to use a different energy form: "If you have the Draconic Heritage feat or if you are a half-dragon, the extra damage is of the energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) that corresponds to your heritage or your draconic parent instead." Dragonwrought kobolds do not qualify.

Hmm, so true dragons don't have a draconic heritage unless they take a feat. If they don't have a draconic heritage, they don't actually have any true dragon predecesors, thus they are not true dragons.

I think you just divided by zero there.

Dragonwrought Kobolds gain bonuses according to their draconic heritage even though they didn't take the feat. It says so in the Dragonwrought feat description. And dragons already get those bonuses by virtue of being dragons.

Of course, RAW is LAW so they don't qualify. Yet another case of writers ****ing the rules up.

[AstralFire]

It's not like either Dragonwrought Kobolds or Dragons need the help.

[Greenish]

Dragonwrought makes kobolds dragons (subtype).No, Dragonwrought makes them Dragons, which is a type. Even without it, they have the Dragonblood subtype.

[Edit]:
This does, incidentally, lead to the slightly stupid result that true dragons are not technically eligible for Dragonfire Inspiration.Anyone with Dragon type qualifies for anything that requires the Dragonblood subtype. Dragon Magic pg 4.

So they're eligible for the feat, they just can't change the type (by RAW).

[true_shinken]

Anyone with Dragon type qualifies for anything that requires the Dragonblood subtype. Dragon Magic pg 4.

So they're eligible for the feat, they just can't change the type (by RAW).

I was just going to say that. You are always ninjaing me! *shakes fist*

[Bayar]

No, Dragonwrought makes them Dragons, which is a type. Even without it, they have the Dragonblood subtype.

[Edit]:Anyone with Dragon type qualifies for anything that requires the Dragonblood subtype. Dragon Magic pg 4.

So they're eligible for the feat, they just can't change the type (by RAW).

The problem is not that they cannot take the feat. They can. They just don't qualify for the special part.

[hamishspence]

What about my comment that all dragons are half-dragons?

And you can definitely say it has a "draconic parent".

[Greenish]

The problem is not that they cannot take the feat. They can. They just don't qualify for the special part.I know, I was just responding to the claim that they wouldn't be eligible for the feat.

[JaronK]

No, it does not. The feat (Dragonfire Inspiration) is very specific under which circumstances you get to use a different energy form: "If you have the Draconic Heritage feat or if you are a half-dragon, the extra damage is of the energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) that corresponds to your heritage or your draconic parent instead." Dragonwrought kobolds do not qualify.

Note that the Dragonwrought feat says "Your scales become tinted with a color that matches your draconic heritage." So you don't have the Draconic Heritage feat, but you do have a draconic heritage gained from a feat.

JaronK

[nysisobli]

I was just going to say that. You are always soulknifing me! *shakes fist*

Fixed that for you :)

[Psyren]

What about my comment that all dragons are half-dragons?

And you can definitely say it has a "draconic parent".

Shh! Stop making sense, this is a RAW discussion. :smallwink:

[Greenish]

Fixed that for you :)If I were to manifest a weapon "composed of psychic energy distilled from [my] own mind", it'd be shaped like a rubber chicken. Not exactly dangerous, you know.

[panaikhan]

If I were to manifest a weapon "composed of psychic energy distilled from [my] own mind", it'd be shaped like a rubber chicken. Not exactly dangerous, you know.

Doesn't it state that a soulknife's weapon does the same damage regardless of what it looks like? So it IS dangerous :smallbiggrin:

[Tytalus]

Note that the Dragonwrought feat says "Your scales become tinted with a color that matches your draconic heritage." So you don't have the Draconic Heritage feat, but you do have a draconic heritage gained from a feat.

Note that whether or not you have a draconic heritage is irrelevant for the discussion at hand.


Having tinted scales (even when matching a draconic heritage)" does not equal / imply having the Draconic Heritage feat.
Draconic heritage (i.e., draconic ancestor) does not equal / imply having the Draconic Heritage feat (but the other way around).
Not having the Draconic Heritage feat AND NOT being a half-dragon precludes you from the special benefit of the Dragonfire Inspiration.


The RAW is perfectly clear on that.

[Psyren]

If I were to manifest a weapon "composed of psychic energy distilled from [my] own mind", it'd be shaped like a rubber chicken. Not exactly dangerous, you know.

You'd need a feat for that - "Shape Mind Blade (rubber chicken)"

[true_shinken]

You'd need a feat for that - "Shape Mind Blade (rubber chicken)"

Of course not, he is just refluffing his mindblade! Classes are metagame concepts! How dare you tell you him how his mindblade looks like? /sarcasm

[The Glyphstone]

Of course not, he is just refluffing his mindblade! Classes are metagame concepts! How dare you tell you him how his mindblade looks like? /sarcasm

Because a rubber chicken and a shortsword do different types of damage, and it'd be unbalancing if he was able to change that without spending a feat to do so! /extendingjokepastduedate