Build help (Epic Divine 3.5)

[DragonOfUndeath]

I'm playing a Gestalt level40 Divine Rank4 High-OP game and have run into a snag.
My Build:
Catfolk1/Wight8/Evolved20/Ancient1*/Sorc1//
Cleric?/Druid?/EpicHero3/Ancient1*
*Homebrew template LA10 basically Evolved Evolved Undead

Using Epic Virtue: Epic Magic to get caster level 40 in Sorcerer, Druid and Cleric. I can either go Cleric20/Druid7, Cleric7/Druid20, Cleric6/Druid20/Fighter1 (Bonus Feat so Natural Spell is free) or some other combo.

Which class has better features at 20? Cleric or Druid? or should i go with a different build?

Note: using the Dicefreaks Divine rules here: (http://dicefreaks.superforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19)

[Myth]

First of all Natural Spell is not among the Fighter bonus feats.

Second of all, having Divine Rank 4 means you will have several Salient Divine Abilites to work with. Take Alter Reality - it allows you to cast every spell in the game and permanency it for free. You don't need homebrew and other such crap (excuse my French) to pull it off.

As far as a Level 40 Gestalt goes, Go Wizard / Incantatrix / Archmage / Cloistered Cleric 1 / Dweomerkeepr on on end and slap on a Solar on the other side (your DM has to determine the LA) and advance his outsider HD as they are really good for a gestalt build.

Or do a Factotum 40 on the other side and take as many fonts of inspiration as you can.

[DragonOfUndeath]

First of all Natural Spell is not among the Fighter bonus feats.

Second of all, having Divine Rank 4 means you will have several Salient Divine Abilites to work with. Take Alter Reality - it allows you to cast every spell in the game and permanency it for free. You don't need homebrew and other such crap (excuse my French) to pull it off.

As far as a Level 40 Gestalt goes, Go Wizard / Incantatrix / Archmage / Cloistered Cleric 1 / Dweomerkeepr on on end and slap on a Solar on the other side (your DM has to determine the LA) and advance his outsider HD as they are really good for a gestalt build.

Or do a Factotum 40 on the other side and take as many fonts of inspiration as you can.

No Natural Spell is not in the Fighter Bonus Feats but I do have several Feats that are Fighter bonus Feats I can just say that Natural Spell is my 9th level Feat and not Two-Weapon Fighting or something. Also I don't really want to change my build except for the 27 levels on the second side and h DM said he isn't gonna accept Alter Reality cheese, that and we will be up against several higher ranked gods that can beat a DvR check by me easily (We are aiming to destroy the Multi-verse)

[Myth]

Alter Reality is not cheese it works RAI. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#alterReality) Your DM won't allow this in a Deity game for fear of you becomming overpowered? Lol. Also, getting the highest possible Spellcraft is a must if Epic Spellcasting is on the table. Get your followers to sacrifice spell slots for you to develop the spells.

Your build is borked up from my PoV and i can't help you with it, especially since you have several homebrew things on it. I'm trying to tell you what actually makes a difference in a Deity level game, having played in one myself.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Alter Reality is not cheese it works RAI. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#alterReality) Your DM won't allow this in a Deity game for fear of you becomming overpowered? Lol. Also, getting the highest possible Spellcraft is a must if Epic Spellcasting is on the table. Get your followers to sacrifice spell slots for you to develop the spells.

Your build is borked up from my PoV and i can't help you with it, especially since you have several homebrew things on it. I'm trying to tell you what actually makes a difference in a Deity level game, having played in one myself.

I'm using the Dicefreaks Divine Rules and the DM only added the "no borked Alter Reality stuff" to provide the other gods a fighting chance.

Epic Spells are on a case-by-case basis.

[JeminiZero]

There was another guy with a similiar request (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177012) a few days back. His thread might give you some inspiration, and since you're actually playing undead, I'll repost my evolved undead build here:

7 Nymph HD / 13 Paladin / Epic: 10 Walker in the Waste / 2 Swordsage / 1 Sorcerer / 7 Paladin // 7 Nymph LA / 5 Dry Lich LA / 28 Evolved Undead

Important Feats:
*Precocious Apprentice (for Sorcerer level 2 spells)
*Ascetic Mage (applying Swordsage Wis bonus to AC)
*Extra Favored Class: Paladin (if using multiclass penalty)

In the above schema, Paladin is replaceable with any other full BAB class (such as Crusader or Warblade), but you will probably want the first 2 levels at least for the Cha to saves.

Nymphs cast as Druids, and Druids qualify for Walker of the Wastes, as they can cast the 3 requisite spells from Sand/Thirst domain (Waste Strider, Dessication and Haboob). More importantly, Nymphs can apply their Cha bonus to AC and saves. And this stacks with the Swordsage/Ascetic Mage Cha bonus to AC and the Paladin bonus to Saves, so you can apply your Cha to AC and saves twice. Additionally, Dry Lich comes with Unholy Toughness, so you can apply your Cha bonus to bonus HP per HD as well. Obviously, you want to boost your Cha as much as possible.

28 Evolved Undead and Dry Lich gives you +58 to Cha on top of you base Cha score (or a bonus of AT LEAST +29, giving you +58 to Touch AC and Saves, on top of the +28 to Natural AC from Evolved Undead, and a whopping +1,160 HP from Unholy Toughness). Oh, and you also get undead immunities, fast Healing, and +56 to Strength, and 5 seperate phylacteries to regenerate yourself from if something ever does manage to kill you.

The only downside is that your BAB takes a small hit, from those early Nymph levels (although once you hit Epic levels, the BAB progression for all classes drops to 1/2, so we take the Walker in the Waste levels then). And watch out for water (although the Evolved Fast Healing mitigates this somewhat).


In your particular casse, instead of paladin, you can take more Druid levels to advance existing Nymph spellcasting. So something like: 7 Nymph HD / 2 Paladin or Blackguard / ?? Druid / ?? Cleric / 10 Walker in the Waste / 2 Swordsage / 1 Sorcerer // 7 Nymph LA / 5 Dry Lich LA / 28 Evolved Undead

You have 18 levels between Cleric and Druid. I would recommend taking 13 levels of Druid (plus 7 from nymph gives you Druid 20 casting), and 5 levels of Cleric, and use Walker in the Waste to progress Cleric Casting to 13.

[DragonOfUndeath]

There was another guy with a similiar request (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177012) a few days back. His thread might give you some inspiration, and since you're actually playing undead, I'll repost my evolved undead build here:

7 Nymph HD / 13 Paladin / Epic: 10 Walker in the Waste / 2 Swordsage / 1 Sorcerer / 7 Paladin // 7 Nymph LA / 5 Dry Lich LA / 28 Evolved Undead

Important Feats:
*Precocious Apprentice (for Sorcerer level 2 spells)
*Ascetic Mage (applying Swordsage Wis bonus to AC)
*Extra Favored Class: Paladin (if using multiclass penalty)

In the above schema, Paladin is replaceable with any other full BAB class (such as Crusader or Warblade), but you will probably want the first 2 levels at least for the Cha to saves.

Nymphs cast as Druids, and Druids qualify for Walker of the Wastes, as they can cast the 3 requisite spells from Sand/Thirst domain (Waste Strider, Dessication and Haboob). More importantly, Nymphs can apply their Cha bonus to AC and saves. And this stacks with the Swordsage/Ascetic Mage Cha bonus to AC and the Paladin bonus to Saves, so you can apply your Cha to AC and saves twice. Additionally, Dry Lich comes with Unholy Toughness, so you can apply your Cha bonus to bonus HP per HD as well. Obviously, you want to boost your Cha as much as possible.

28 Evolved Undead and Dry Lich gives you +58 to Cha on top of you base Cha score (or a bonus of AT LEAST +29, giving you +58 to Touch AC and Saves, on top of the +28 to Natural AC from Evolved Undead, and a whopping +1,160 HP from Unholy Toughness). Oh, and you also get undead immunities, fast Healing, and +56 to Strength, and 5 seperate phylacteries to regenerate yourself from if something ever does manage to kill you.

The only downside is that your BAB takes a small hit, from those early Nymph levels (although once you hit Epic levels, the BAB progression for all classes drops to 1/2, so we take the Walker in the Waste levels then). And watch out for water (although the Evolved Fast Healing mitigates this somewhat).


In your particular case, instead of paladin, you can take more Druid levels to advance existing Nymph spellcasting. So something like: 7 Nymph HD / 2 Paladin or Blackguard / ?? Druid / ?? Cleric / 10 Walker in the Waste / 2 Swordsage / 1 Sorcerer // 7 Nymph LA / 5 Dry Lich LA / 28 Evolved Undead

You have 18 levels between Cleric and Druid. I would recommend taking 13 levels of Druid (plus 7 from nymph gives you Druid 20 casting), and 5 levels of Cleric, and use Walker in the Waste to progress Cleric Casting to 13.

The guy who posted that thread is one of the other players in the game. I think I will use your build as one of my 4 Proxies rather than myself though.
Also: there is a 20 level cap on the amount of Evolved Undead taken, one of the other players mitigated this by coming up with Ancient:
Size and Type: Size and type remain unchanged.

Armor Class: The negative energy infusing the frame of the ancient undead grants it a +2 vile bonus to AC, which stacks with other vile bonuses, each time the template is taken.

Special Qualities/Special Attacks:

Overcome Weakness:
Each time you gain this template, you may overcome one of your undead weaknesses. You may either apply your Cha modifier to something you would normally have applied your Con modifier to, gain immunity to positive energy or turning, or overcome a specialized weakness, such as a vampire's weakness to garlic.

Ancient Power: Each time you gain this template, you may select one of the following powers.

Negative Touch: Your touch deals bonus negative energy damage equal to 1d4 per 2 HD. Additionally, it gain +1d4 vile damage.

Spirit Shift: You may become incorporeal if you were not previously. You gain a flight speed equal to your land speed with a maneuverability of perfect.

Giant Hammer: You grow one size category with all the correct benefits, and you gain a bonus on bull rush attacks equal to your HD.

Jaws of Death: You may target one living creature within 30 ft. This target is effected as if by a disintegrate spell with a caster level of your HD, but there is no ray attack, they simply must make a fortitude save. You are healed 1/4 of the damage dealt.

Death Stream: When you move, you leave a trail behind you that lasts one turn and deals 1d6 negative energy damage per HD to living creatures who walk through it.

Chill of Death: Living creatures who stand within 10 feet of you are instantly stunned for 1 round unless they make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Charisma Modifier)


Abilities: Increase from base creature as follows: Cha +20, Str +10, Wis +5.

LA: +10

[Earthwalker]

I would be really intersted in a post detailing how the first sessions of this game plays.

I just have no idea how you can play at this level and would be interested to learn what happens.

[DragonOfUndeath]

I would be really intersted in a post detailing how the first sessions of this game plays.

I just have no idea how you can play at this level and would be interested to learn what happens.

Well we all meet in a bar (despite the fact most of us don't need to eat) and decide to team up to destroy the universe one plane at a time :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: Locked by request of OP.