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sreservoir
2010-11-26, 10:40 AM
I like generic classes and I like spirit shamans' spells known quirk - basically, they're spontaneous casters, can cast about as many spells as a sorcerer, but have a lot less spells known. However, they can repick their spells known daily.

Target tier is 1/2, probably 1 with the daily switching.

Hit Die d4
Base Save Bonuses One good save and two poor saves.
Class Skills Choose any four skills as class skills, plus Craft, Knowledge (all), and Profession.
Skill Points 2 + Int modifier (or four times this number at 1st level).
Weapon and Armor Proficiency One simple weapon; no armor.
Bonus Feats The spellcaster gets one bonus feat at 1st level, one at 5th level, and another one at every fifth class level thereafter (10th, 15th, and so on).

Spellcasting
A spellcaster learns and casts spells as a spirit shaman. She may select her spells from the cleric, druid, and sorcerer/wizard spell lists.
A spellcaster must choose at 1st level whether to be an arcane spellcaster or a divine spellcaster. This choice affects the spells that she may learn what kinds of scrolls she can use. A divine spellcaster may select her spells from any spell list used by a class which learns 9th level divine spells (such as the cleric and druid spell lists). An arcane spellcaster may select her spells from any spell list used by a class which learns 9th level arcane spells. A spellcaster may designate Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma as the ability score that determines the highest-level spell she can learn or cast, the bonus spells she receives for having a high ability score, and the Difficulty Class of her spell's-saving throws.

Spells Per Day

{table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
1st|6|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|6|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|6|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|6|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|6|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|6|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|6|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
8th|6|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-
9th|6|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-
10th|6|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-
11th|6|5|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-
12th|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-
13th|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1|-|-
14th|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-|-
15th|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1|-
16th|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-
17th|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1
18th|6|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2
19th|6|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2
20th|6|6|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2
[/table]


Spells Retrieved Per Day

{table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|4rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
1st|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|3|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
8th|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-
9th|3|3|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-
10th|3|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-
11th|3|3|3|3|3|2|1|-|-|-
12th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-
13th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|1|-|-
14th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|-|-
15th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|1|-
16th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|-
17th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|1
18th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2
19th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2
20th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3
[/table]


Anything obviously wrong? Balance comparisons?

These aren't completely identical to the spirit shaman's spells per day/spells retrieved. I think it's a few fewer per day, a few more retrieved, actually.

Dead_Jester
2010-11-26, 05:08 PM
they should probably be limited to one of the three great branches of casting, or divided between divine and arcane magic, because cherry picking from both everyday is extremely strong.

Also, right now, this is strait up better than a standard wizard because they get more spells per day, and get the best of spontaneous and prepared spellcasting from 3 whole spell lists.

sreservoir
2010-11-26, 06:18 PM
eh, standard generic casters already get to cherry-pick from the big three, although not daily, so I'm not too concerned about that.

As to the spells per day, how does this table look?

{table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
1st|6|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|6|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|6|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|6|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|6|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|6|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|6|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
8th|6|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-
9th|6|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-
10th|6|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-
11th|6|5|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-
12th|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-
13th|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1|-|-
14th|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-|-
15th|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1|-
16th|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-
17th|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1
18th|6|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2
19th|6|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2
20th|6|6|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2
[/table]

...that's about the best I can do with it without screwing up the spell progression. At odd levels, this is one fewer spell of max-2; at evens, max-1 and max-3.

I can do a bit it reducing the number of unique spells they can pick, though.

{table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
1st|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|3|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|3|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
8th|3|3|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-
9th|3|3|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-
10th|3|3|3|3|2|2|-|-|-|-
11th|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|-|-|-
12th|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|-|-|-
13th|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|-|-
14th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|-|-
15th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|-
16th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|-
17th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1
18th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2
19th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2
20th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2
[/table]

Eloel
2010-11-27, 02:52 AM
eh, standard generic casters already get to cherry-pick from the big three, although not daily, so I'm not too concerned about that.

Wait what? Standard casters can cherry-pick from all lists, without over-optimization?

Didn't know...

Hint: Archivist pays for every single spell he has.

Ashtagon
2010-11-27, 03:32 AM
Wait what? Standard casters can cherry-pick from all lists, without over-optimization?

Nope. Standard generic casters do that.

It's in Unearthed Arcana and the SRD.

Dead_Jester
2010-11-27, 08:12 AM
Yes, but normal generic spellcasters only have access to 43 spells in their entire life, not the hundreds available out there. I mean, this isn't much stronger than a normal or specialist wizard, and could be considered weaker CoDzillas out there, but it is still much more versatile than all of those, which is the real problem here.

sreservoir
2010-11-27, 09:22 AM
mm, does sor/wiz alone match up to cleric and druid combined? (and then I threw in all the other full-caster classes. eh, those aren't too ridiculous, are they?)

Eloel
2010-11-27, 10:41 AM
mm, does sor/wiz alone match up to cleric and druid combined? (and then I threw in all the other full-caster classes. eh, those aren't too ridiculous, are they?)

Wizard is Tier 1. So is Archivist.
They seem to match up.

sreservoir
2010-11-27, 11:16 AM
Wizard is Tier 1. So is Archivist.
They seem to match up.

so the question is, how much is almost-spontaneous casting worth?

I think they're all limited by having either weak or small spell lists, actually.