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Dsurion
2010-11-26, 03:17 PM
Everyone knows shields in D&D are... Not very good, compared to most other options, like THF, or TWF. I'd like to try to come up with some kind of houserule, or find one that already exists (my searches have failed on this site, generally timing out)to make sword and board slightly more viable.

I've had some people suggest something like granting soft cover for free, or some amount of concealment, but I wanted to know what everyone else thought.

This is technically going to be for a game played tonight, but discussion isn't just limited to then :smallsmile:

Nero24200
2010-11-26, 03:26 PM
I once saw a houserule that shields also provide a static concealment bonus (partly the make them more effective at mid-to-high levels). Never actually saw it in play though (though I wouldn't mind giving it a try myself).

Vladislav
2010-11-26, 03:42 PM
Quick and dirty solution:


1. Everyone proficient with a shield gets Shield Ward for free and can apply the shield bonus to "Reflex half" saves.
2. Improved Shield Bash and Shield Sling are rolled into one feat.
3. Shield Specialization and Active Shield Defense are rolled into one feat.
4. Agile Shield Fighter and Shield Charge are rolled into one feat.

Pechvarry
2010-11-26, 04:25 PM
Animated Shields and reach are the 2 biggest issues, as I see it. The former kills any reason to sword and board in the first place, and 3.x's reach system makes it an almost impossible system of tanking. Hence, even Knights are running around with spiked chains and relying on trip/stand still instead of their shielding.

The feat intensity of becoming awesome with a shield makes the situation even worse.

Knowing the flaws, you can try to figure out how to overcome them.

To make animated shield + greataxe combos less effective (and because I can't stand the flavor of animated shields anyway), I like adding "when wielding a shield..." to the stipulations of most shield-using abilities, so animated shields don't get the benefit.

Increasing the defensive abilities of shields is cool, and I wouldn't argue with any decision to buff them. But you really need to improve the positional issues of shield-using medium size creatures. Players often don't want big reach weapons and more importantly, they don't want to rely on Enlarge Person. The best I can offer is the idea that characters with shields don't really just hide behind them -- they get proactive and stuff them in their opponent's faces, shutting down their attacks more than just bashing them. Of course, I can't really think of a way to implement that without a severe re-write of the combat rules.

Otodetu
2010-11-26, 05:12 PM
I just increased shield bonus on light and heavy shields by 1, bang, people started using them all the time.

buckler 1
light 2
heavy 3

makes sense even.

Cicciograna
2010-11-26, 06:13 PM
I was thinking about a new rule about shields: I've never tried it personally, though.
If an opponent hits a shield-wielding character, before damage is rolled the defender has the option to forego the following round to block the attack with the shield as an Immediate action: against that attack he doubles the shield bonus to AC and gets an additional +2 to AC. If his new AC is sufficient to block the attack, the shield gets the damage (hardness applies normally); if the new AC is not sufficient to block the attack, damage is converted to subdual damage, as the shield partially deflected the blow turning it into a non lethal one.
This maneuver can be performed only against one attack per round.
This maneuver is not available with a buckler.

Maybe feats could expand the number of times usable, or augment the AC bonus, or grant the user a partial action (instead of losing the round).

Bandededed
2010-11-26, 06:33 PM
If an opponent hits a shield-wielding character, before damage is rolled the defender has the option to forego the following round to block the attack with the shield as an Immediate action: against that attack he doubles the shield bonus to AC and gets an additional +2 to AC. If his new AC is sufficient to block the attack, the shield gets the damage (hardness applies normally); if the new AC is not sufficient to block the attack, damage is converted to subdual damage, as the shield partially deflected the blow turning it into a non lethal one.
This maneuver can be performed only against one attack per round.
This maneuver is not available with a buckler.

Maybe feats could expand the number of times usable, or augment the AC bonus, or grant the user a partial action (instead of losing the round).

I'm not sure this would work very well. If you're foregoing your entire next turn to block a single attack, then you or your shield is taking damage, and then you're (likely) going to be attacked more. And you don't get to hurt anything, as you've given up your turn.

I did this:
{table]Shield type| Initial AC |Max Dex
Buckler | 0 | -
Light | +2 | +6
Heavy | +4 | +4
Tower | +6 | +2[/table]
A shield's total bonus to AC is its initial AC + the user's dex (limited by the shield or his armors max dex, whichever is lower). A shield's bonus to AC counts towards touch AC as well

Ernir
2010-11-26, 06:33 PM
I have three suggestions.

Book suggestion: Use the Tome of Battle. No houseruling required, just open the book and realize that there are ways to be effective in melee other than picking up a two-hander and going ape with Power Attack. Diamond Mind and Stone Dragon are your friends. Stuff like Dungeoncrasher (Dungeonscape) is as well. Simple houserule: Make shield AC count towards touch AC. Makes sense, and makes shields a rather more versatile defensive boost. More involved rule addition: Fix the fact that there aren't many 1-handed reach weapons in the game. Homebrew more good one-handed weapons, and people might use them.

Quietus
2010-11-26, 07:42 PM
ToB works, as noted. Anything that cuts away reliance on "standard" methods of doing damage will work, really. Alternatively, TWF with the shield, and get some source of bonus damage.

Corwin_of_Amber
2010-11-26, 08:09 PM
ToB works, as noted. Anything that cuts away reliance on "standard" methods of doing damage will work, really. Alternatively, TWF with the shield, and get some source of bonus damage.

I'm just going to put this out there, but there are feats that allow TWF with shield bash that allow you to keep AC (in Races of Stone, maybe?), there's also a Bladed Buckler from Arms and Equipment Guide.

Also, I'm very happy running around with my Adamantium-Plated Animated Tower Shield.

Quietus
2010-11-26, 09:06 PM
I'm just going to put this out there, but there are feats that allow TWF with shield bash that allow you to keep AC (in Races of Stone, maybe?), there's also a Bladed Buckler from Arms and Equipment Guide.

Also, I'm very happy running around with my Adamantium-Plated Animated Tower Shield.

Actually, with Improved Shield Bash (Core feat), you can TWF with shields just fine. A light shield is a light weapon, too.. or, if your DM doesn't get pedantic about it, you can use a heavy shield as a one-handed, and a light weapon off-hand. Sadly, two shields doesn't work because they both provide Shield bonuses to AC, so they don't stack. Same deal with Two-Weapon Defense.