3.5 blackguard

[Obahai]

I'm in the process of making a 11th lvl paladin into a blackguard then into a deathknight. I know I can exchange all my paladin levels in for black guard, but there are only 10 lvls of black guard. Do I continue to lvl the blackguard following it's hp,bab,save progression?

[The Dark Fiddler]

I'm in the process of making a 11th lvl paladin into a blackguard then into a deathknight. I know I can exchange all my paladin levels in for black guard, but there are only 10 lvls of black guard. Do I continue to lvl the blackguard following it's hp,bab,save progression?

Considering a level in paladin and a level in blackguard give you the same BAB, saves, and HD... I guess? (Actually, the paladin level would give you an extra +2 fort, so why would you?)

[Antonok]

If I read the fallen paladin entry correctly, you'd be a Blackguard10/Paladin 1, and you'd gain an extra use of smite good. And you would only gain the BaB, saves, and hp from the 1 lvl in pally but thats it.

[Obahai]

It makes more sense to trade in the paladin lvls at 10th, and then take 5 lvls of rogue, then go into death knight


That gives me a few extra d6's for sneak attack and evasion, plus brings up my skills

[Urpriest]

Just to clarify on the initial question: no, you can't just take more levels of Blackguard after Blackguard 10. That's as far as the class goes, period. Blackguard 11 is only accessible as an epic level character.

Is this a character in play, by the way? Because if not, Shadowbane Inquisitor (from Complete Adventurer) is a cool class to take before becoming a Blackguard, since it stacks with your ex-paladin levels for the bonuses Blackguards while still giving you class features after you fall. You can't take any more levels of it after you fall though, so for a character in play it's less useful.

If this is a character already in play, then yeah I'd go with rogue for more sneak attack dice, or something more complex if you want something else out of the build.

[blackjack217]

or go paladin of tyranny 10/blackguard 10. It's evil

[Obahai]

Yeah it's for a character, some sort of Demi plane tournament. Doesn't shadowbane inquisitor require a couple lvls of rogue?

[Urpriest]

Yeah it's for a character, some sort of Demi plane tournament. Doesn't shadowbane inquisitor require a couple lvls of rogue?

Just one (at least if you don't worry about multiclass penalties). So something like rogue 1/paladin 5/shadowbane inquisitor 6-10, then fall and trade the paladin levels for blackguard, with more shadowbane inquisitor levels giving more of the ex-paladin benefits.

[Obahai]

Just one (at least if you don't worry about multiclass penalties). So something like rogue 1/paladin 5/shadowbane inquisitor 6-10, then fall and trade the paladin levels for blackguard, with more shadowbane inquisitor levels giving more of the ex-paladin benefits.




Here's something else to consider, drop the levels of rogue and take monster of legend template, then focus on x-mas tree gear to buff up cha and movement

[Os1ris09]

Here's something else to consider, drop the levels of rogue and take monster of legend template, then focus on x-mas tree gear to buff up cha and movement

I have never heard of the x-mas tree gear route? Please do elaborate. :smallbiggrin:

[Dracons]

I'd say stick with just a first level blackguard/10th level paladin, and enjoy all the awesome powers that gives you.

The fallen Paladin gains smite good 3/day (in addition to blackguard ability)
Lay on hands
Sneak Attack increase 1d6
Summon Monster 1/day
Undead Companion that cannot be turned/rebucked (Skeleton or zombie) is also treated as fiendish companian. (Basically you get two).

The of course you get your standard first level blackguard, base attack +1, Fort +2, Aura of evil, detect good, poison use and spellcasting.

You lose smite good, aura of good, and smite evil. Wowy.

If you just straight out trade all ten levels, you gain
Aura of Evil
Detect good
dark blessing
smite good 3/day
poison use
Command undead
Aura of dispair
sneak attack 3d6

And spells up to 4th level of course, but there spell casting sucks anyway.

The healing ability, and if you go full ten levels in blackguard/ten levels fallen paladin nets you to smite good 6/day, lay on hands ability, and sneak attack
4d6?

Something to think about.

[nedz]

I have never heard of the x-mas tree gear route? Please do elaborate. :smallbiggrin:

He means a character with so many magic items they Light up like a Christmas Tree when you cast Detect Magic. Its a turn of phrase.

Ed:

I'm in the process of making a 11th lvl paladin into a blackguard then into a deathknight. I know I can exchange all my paladin levels in for black guard, but there are only 10 lvls of black guard. Do I continue to lvl the blackguard following it's hp,bab,save progression?
Read DMG p183
An 11th level paladin who falls can trade in 1-10 levels of Paladin for levels of Blackguard, you gain additional powers depending upon how many levels of Paladin you retain.
Thus you could become:

Paladin 1/Blackguard 10
...
Paladin 6/Blackguard 5
...
Paladin 10/Blackguard 1

11 options: Your choice

[BenTheJester]

Which Death Knight are you using?

[KillianHawkeye]

Which Death Knight are you using?

Are there any others besides the one in MM2? :smallconfused:

[Greenish]

Blackguard, schmaggard, have you considered the Bone Knight?

[Os1ris09]

Blackguard, schmaggard, have you considered the Bone Knight?

Instawin if you combine it with Ordained Champion and Cleric.

A build of Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Ordained Champion 2/Bone Knight 10/O.C. 3 i believe grants you immunity to mind and fear effects as well as crits and immunity to disease and poison. As well as a great BAB.

Side effects: dont get shot at with a fireball or YOU WILL take the blunt of it without a 20 on a save.

[Greenish]

Instawin if you combine it with Ordained Champion and Cleric.But also rather decent* option for a fallen paladin. You regain the use of Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage, Divine Health and spellcasting from your paladin levels, in addition of all the goodies from Bone Knight. It also fully processes your special mount (oh yes, you regain that too, now with skeletal template), and your spellcasting by 9/10.

Also, any 4th level paladin who's picked the right skill ranks will qualify, without needing to pick the feats required for Blackguard.


*[Edit]: Did I say "rather decent"? I meant "absolutely brilliant"!

[Thurbane]

How would swapping Fallen Paladin levels for Blackguard levels work for a Prestige Paladin, if at all?

[Obahai]

The books allowed are mm1-5, the completes( except champion) phb 1&2 and dmg

What is the bone knight from. Also taking 5 lvls of rogue for evasion and uncanny dodge. The fm gifted me with an adamantine life drinker axe, stacked with gauntlets of might and power attack.


I'm trading 10 pal for 10 bg making it nice and easy

[Coidzor]

Bone Knight is from Five Nations, an Eberron book.

[Dracons]

I'm trading 10 pal for 10 bg making it nice and easy

How is losing abilities make it nice and easy? :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

How is losing abilities make it nice and easy? :smallconfused:

Probably means simplest in his and the DM's head.

[nedz]

How would swapping Fallen Paladin levels for Blackguard levels work for a Prestige Paladin, if at all?

Undefined, so it would have to be houseruled.
I'd take them to be equivalent, however other may take a different view.

[AstralFire]

Isn't Prestige Paladin stronger than Blackguard?

[Coidzor]

Considering it's a half-caster progression of a non-paladin divine spellcasting class, that basically requires cleric or a spellcasting PRC that grants turn undead.... yeah.

[AstralFire]

So what would possess you to trade it in?

[Coidzor]

So what would possess you to trade it in?

*shrug* To see if one could do it?

[Obahai]

I really don't know much about the campaign, but it just seems like a better build over my favoured soul/stormlord concept. Plus the dm is allowing me to have unholy toughness. Which means an extra 96 hp

[Elric VIII]

Just one (at least if you don't worry about multiclass penalties). So something like rogue 1/paladin 5/shadowbane inquisitor 6-10, then fall and trade the paladin levels for blackguard, with more shadowbane inquisitor levels giving more of the ex-paladin benefits.

I thought you could only trade in Paladin levels if you're level 11. If you can trade in any number, this may make a character I'm thinking of much less wasteful in terms of levels. The fallen inquisitor doesn't meantion anything about stacking with regards to this, or am I misreading it?