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Orzel
2010-11-27, 10:26 PM
The campaign world I am working on is a city plane where many factions fight to control neighborhoods in order to force the citizens to vote the way they want. So the various armies, when they get a war permit, fight each other on local parks, empty lots, closed off streets, and the sides of highways.

But these armies are led and commonly filled with "monsters". And each of the "monster"'s flaws keep any side form ever taking large enough land or forming enough alliances to get their candidate majority. So the same guy has been Planar Mayor for 20,000 years.

So I need the strengths, weakness, possible allies, and reason why they haven't won yet for each side.

For example:
The Chromatic Dragons have a large kobold and lizardman army, loads of magical support, and tons of money. But these dragons are too selfish and refuse to aid each other without a favor. Therefore only a small percentage of the total force is ever sent anywhere unless it is against the Metallic Dragons. Their land won't be taken but they'll never send enough to take someone else.

Any ideas on
Chromatic Dragons
Metallic Dragons
Vampires
Aberrations
Fey and Elves
Elementals, Gnomes, and Dwarves
Giants
Lycantropes
Archons and Angels
Devils
Demons
Goblins
Zombies (Lead by Liches and Necromancers)

Greenish
2010-11-27, 10:58 PM
Chromatic Dragons - Internal politics.
Metallic Dragons - Mercy & Compassion, they simply have too many fronts and too many charities to man all of them.
Vampires - Too sparkly. :smallwink: Over-developed sense for drama has rendered their tactics less than effective. Playing by the code, they provide would-be vampire slayers ample opportunities in the shape of easily drawn aside curtains, cutlery easy to distort into a shape of a holy symbol, and furniture easy to convert into wooden stakes.
Aberrations - Lack any real organization.
Fey and Elves - They're never all in the mood for conquest at the same time, tend to side with the "underdogs" on a whim.
Elementals, Gnomes, and Dwarves - Way too focused on defense. Too hesitant to mount an offensive force of any real effect.
Giants - Too high. If they laid down on the mushrooms, the other nation would be goner…
Lycantropes - Internal Strife, with some trying to fight the curse, some embracing it.
Archons and Angels - Not strong enough. Really, that's pretty much the only (acceptable) reason they haven't vanquished evil yet.
Devils - Internal politics and the Blood War.
Demons - Infighting (much like internal politics, except less civilized) and the Blood War.
Goblins - Crippling LA on any goblinoid race worth playing. :smallwink: Nah, they're just not interested in world conquest, and fight only to defend their homelands.
Zombies (Lead by Liches and Necromancers) - They've got the numbers, but in D&D that matters little compared to having the power. Also, the leaders (who could put up a battlefield presence) are cowards, valuing their (un)lives over the success of the faction as a whole.

awa
2010-11-27, 11:02 PM
depending on the type of fey just to disorganized to do more than defend also many are bound to specific places limiting their ability to do any thing offensively.
giants may lack the numbers to do much sure individual they are strong but their just arnt a lot of them. (also what kind of giants are we talking cloud giants are very different from hill giants.

goblins are just weak their are a lot of them and they reproduce fast so you cant wipe them out but that's about all they have going for them.

TheMeMan
2010-11-28, 12:40 AM
goblins are just weak their are a lot of them and they reproduce fast so you cant wipe them out but that's about all they have going for them.

Bah. That's so... simple.

Rather, I see them as having an intense deal of infighting, with several subfactions. Likewise, a goblin horde likely has a constantly rotating leadership, with knew leaders falling from power almost as quickly as they gain it. This would lead to some interesting little bits, as the goals of the now will likely not be the goals of the group tomorrow. A constantly shifting leaderhsip, and goals, creates a system where they are most definitely a force to be reckoned with-however their biggest dangers are not from without, but instead from within. If ever organized into a tactical force, they could probably be powerful enough to overthrough most anything.

An interesting way to play this would possibly be having various outside groups actually instigating the various hostility within the group as a sort of subterfuge. Of course, this kind of political play could be present in any given group, but I'd imagine particular interest would be given to goblinoids.

RipperOfShirts
2010-11-28, 12:55 AM
[QUOTE=Greenish;9848856
Zombies (Lead by Liches and Necromancers) - They've got the numbers, but in D&D that matters little compared to having the power. Also, the leaders (who could put up a battlefield presence) are cowards, valuing their (un)lives over the success of the faction as a whole.[/QUOTE]

The problem with undead is that they can follow simple orders, but everyone knows this and goes out of their way to confuse them to limit their effectiveness. The only way to counter this would be to have a Necromancer lead them, but since there's not a very long list of people willing to sign up to become part of the Undead Army, they can't afford to risk themselves all the time. Guerrilla tactics would be their MO.

I'd throw in having Doppelgangers and Changelings as a group, working undercover to try to weaken every other group by staging assault posing as a different group to get them to attack the one group (ie pose as dwarves and attack everyone) with the drawback of anything large-scale enough to work is obviously a trick, and anything that would be unnoticeable lacks the impact to wipe out another group

Coidzor
2010-11-28, 01:00 AM
Oh, an easy explanation for the lack of efficacy on the part of the dragons... XORVINTAAL!


Goblins - Crippling LA on any goblinoid race worth playing. :smallwink: Nah, they're just not interested in world conquest, and fight only to defend their homelands.

Also, I'd have vanilla goblins pegged as more of a nigh-universal underclass in the city and undercity proper and so hard to gather and organize due to being kept down in the rat race both by facts of life and some intentional measures by the overlords of whatever Burroughs they reside in, and hobgoblins as being as likely to be mercenary clans/gangs for other factions as they are to be aligned in a coherent side. They seem a fairly fractious lot, even the disciplined Hobos.


Zombies (Lead by Liches and Necromancers) - They've got the numbers, but in D&D that matters little compared to having the power. Also, the leaders (who could put up a battlefield presence) are cowards, valuing their (un)lives over the success of the faction as a whole.

Probably a number of them trying to play the Szass Tam long-game (read, animate dread warrior + conventional undead from mooks) with an army made out of the strongest enemy champions that they can get their hands on, thus mostly staying out of the direct fighting and offering bounties to other factions to give them an incentive to recover enemy dead and an opportunity to prevent conventional resurrections by stashing them with necromancers who want their horde to grow in safety until they're threatened or decide to make their move.

Could even be more interested in running a soul/body trade with the outsiders and factions that are interested in reacquiring their champions than in ending the conflict proper, sort of like le yugoloths in the blood war.


I'd throw in having Doppelgangers and Changelings as a group, working undercover to try to weaken every other group by staging assault posing as a different group to get them to attack the one group (ie pose as dwarves and attack everyone) with the drawback of anything large-scale enough to work is obviously a trick, and anything that would be unnoticeable lacks the impact to wipe out another group

Seem more like a mercenary faction that might control some territory of its own but is less interested in winning the game than in playing all sides for as much as they're worth.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-11-28, 04:26 AM
Vampires are very disorganized. You would have a single Vampire and his spawn in one area and another Vampire and HIS spawn in another with very little contact between the two

Tvtyrant
2010-11-28, 04:26 AM
Metallic Dragons:
Metallic Dragons do not have the armies of chromatic dragons, because they do not have the egos of their kin. Instead each one takes a human familiar (dragonkin) and has a few disciples that they in dealing with extant threats to the order of the world. Basically they have good organization but there are very few of them, and they don't have the armies to actually hold down regions.

Vampires:
Vampires have the major issue of ego. Each vampire is looking to kill all older vampires and be served by the younger ones, so they can't really trust each other.

Aberrations:
The issue with Aberrations is that they are.... aberrant. Any aberration that rears its head on the surface will be attacked on sight by any living creature that sees it; animals, plants, magical beasts, Outsiders. An Aberration army will unify every army within a thousand miles by its presence.

Fey and Elves:
The Fey are incredibly powerful but their enemies are numerous and potent. They specfically war with the Aberrations and Undead of the world, seeing them as abominations and outside the natural order they love. Any army of Fey is likely to be marching to war against Liches and Beholders, and as such they are not going to have time for the lesser races.

Elementals:
Elementals do not create complex socieites, and are anti-social by preference. An army of elementals would only rise if their element was percieved to be threatened; when this happens they crush almost anyone sent against them.

Gnomes, and Dwarves:
The Gnomes and Dwarves have been concentrating on their arts for the better part of a thousand years. The Gnomes experiment with Shadow Magic, Illusions, and the True Song endlessly. They don't know what they are looking for but the most potent of the Gnomes are becoming less and less mortal and binding themselves to the plane of shadow and becoming Night Children. The Dwarves have almost perfected their metallurgy, and are close to finding how to create adamant out of common metals. Neither poses an offensive threat to the world, but their continued attachment to demi-planes brings up the question of what they will become in the future.

Giants:
Few in number and extremely racist, the giants are attempting to wipe each other out. When only one race of giant exists they will pour out of their mountains and the world will burn.

Goblins:
Goblins have been working on a single goal for most of their existence; they are making a living god for themselves. Goblins are not talented at magic as other races are, which prevents them from competing for world power. Instead they are collecting artifacts and pieces of dead gods with the intent of creating a living god on the planet. This god will grant them the role in the world they deserve.

AstralFire
2010-11-28, 04:37 AM
I thought Metallic Dragons had BIG ego problems. Remember, Good is not Nice.

Xuc Xac
2010-11-28, 04:44 AM
But these armies are led and commonly filled with "monsters". And each of the "monster"'s flaws keep any side form ever taking large enough land or forming enough alliances to get their candidate majority. So the same guy has been Planar Mayor for 20,000 years.


The entire span of human history (starting with Egyptians and Sumerians making marks in clay) is only 6000 years. If any of these factions is smart enough to tie their shoes and talk to each other, then they'll figure out how to build a coalition in much less than 20,000 years. It doesn't matter what their flaws are, if the flaws aren't enough to stop them from having their own army, then they can figure out how to topple the "mayor". It doesn't matter if every group hates every other group, because they will still ally with the ones they hate least in order to topple the ones they hate most.

Really, if the only way to be mayor is to be elected by a majority, then the only way that the mayor will continue to be the same guy is if all of these factions put together are still smaller than the majority that keeps voting for the same mayor.

Coidzor
2010-11-28, 04:52 AM
^: There's also the bit where there's a question of who is enforcing these rules of engagement that they appear to be following.

Metallic dragons don't have armies of cannon fodder mooks because their egos are big enough that they want something worth lording it over for lackeys and subordinates. Minions that make them look good rather than being the sniveling cowards and thralls that kobolds usually are.

Runestar
2010-11-28, 05:52 AM
The devils could possibly be too rigid and inflexible in their tactics and planning, so it is all too easy for more inventive foes to outsmart/outmaneuver them.

Conversely, demons are too ill-disciplined, so any plan tends to fall apart after a while as the demons break formation and start doing their own stuff.

Chromatic dragons may be unwilling to commit their troops as they fear other dragons backstabbing them when they are at their weakest. So they always surround themselves with guards, which leaves too few forces to do anything else noteworthy?

Orzel
2010-11-28, 07:13 AM
Before the creation of the Planar there was chaos. The Angels, Devils, and major churches ended this by creating office of the Planar Mayor and Vote Gems via a powerful epic spell.

The Planar Mayor is voted on with vote gems. Each neighborhood has a vote gem, which collects the votes of those who reside near it. If majority is not won, the old mayor gets another term (Devil's ideas, thinking they'd win by now). Few opposing candidate get past 10%. Coalitions tend to fail or be too small.

The current Planar Mayor is a TN epic wizard/cleric. He controls the government army, holds mercenary licenses hostage (so he controls the mercs and bounty hunters too), and implanted his clones into most businesses (most unaligned business support him). Most factions rather have him stay PM than a leader of another faction so it's nearly impossible to get more than 30% without beating other groups down.

Which faction should be the richest?
Which one would have the huge army they can't support?

Storm Bringer
2010-11-28, 09:06 AM
the following is based on the idea that the elections use a electoral collage system, where its the number of vote gems a person recieves that counts, rather than the number of votes.

Dragons (both types): too arrgoant and self centered to unite behind one dragon. A single dragon can only gather as many votes as he can out of his servants, and any nearby voting districts he can browbeat into voting for him, So, while they control significant numbers of seats, they are a political non-entity.

Vampires: split along family lines as a race. on the battlefield, are hampered by the fact that thier rank and file are not really commited to thier cause (would YOU fight to the death for a blood sucking vampire?), so often suffer form shaky morale form thier troops.

Aberrations: most of these are mindless, so can be discounted. things like mind flayers and beholders prefer to manipulate other races to do thier bidding, so very few actaully run for mayor in thier own rights. more likey to be found as "helpers"/advisors/mercs to some other races empires than ruling outright in thier own names.

Fey and Elves: too few in number to hold many districts. the more nature inclined types of fey mostly live in the forests in the parks and such, which are not formal voting districts, so they can't vote.

Elementals: do not live on the city-plane. appear only as mercs/allies to other armies. if that doesn't suit the cosmolgy, then their inheirtly alien mindset means they are not intrested in the elections and don't vote.

Gnomes, and Dwarves: intrested in orderly socity over power, mostly vote for the current PM. defensive mindset. darven preference for building vertically (i.e. digging down) means they pack more people into each district, so votes count for less.

Giants:few in number, and clan based socity hinders unity (most clans vote for thier clan leaders)

Lycantropes: no sense of unity as a race. they think of themselves as being humans/dwarves/elves/giants/whatever, who happen to be Lycantropes.

Archons, Angels, Devils, Demons: banned form holding the office directly by the planar laws (required to get all the gods to aggree). They vote for a canidate that best supports their views (i.e. one they can control).

Goblins: screwed by the system. for whatever reason (maybe manipulations by the PM), the lands they control have much fewer voting districts per square mile than others do, and they live at a very high population desity, so while their are lots of goblins voting, they don't count as much per vote.

Zombies (Lead by Liches and Necromancers): only intelligent beings can vote.


one thing that may hold back a potentail canidate is the sheer size of the planar city. if this place is big enough to hold all these races, and have them in suffcient numbers that they can spend 20,000 years in intermittant warfare and NOT wipe each other out, then it must be so big that it would be very hard for one being to become known city-wide. so that the PM keeps his place because no one else is known as a contender across all the city.

also, another option is that thier are 'local' goverment positions that can be voted for, and most peoples efforts are directed at controlling these.

Orzel
2010-11-28, 10:25 PM
Loving the ideas. But lack of unity is coming up a lot.

Some of the sides have been wiped out and others weakened to mercenary duty.

Orcs: dead
Gnolls: almost gone
Hags: dead
Minotaurs: least than 50
Sphynxes: dead
Titans: dead
Sahuagin: dead
Mummies: double dead
Rakshasa : dead

PCs would be playing in a plane of relative peace. Popularity of the PM is high so most sides haven't bothered with taking major territory for centuries. Most factions are mainly dealing with slayers, backing gangs, and weakening other factions for when the PM lowers the requirements for for war permits.