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View Full Version : Weird OA-Style Campaign Idea <3.5>



Tokuhara
2010-11-28, 01:49 PM
I had a weird epiphany today. OA setting with the plan to test my players' skill under unique circumstances. Here are the rules for my players:

You must play a swordsage at start. Players start at Lv 1 with swordsage.

Swordsages can take any discipline from ToB and almost any from Online (such as the ones right here on Giant)

Players can choose one of the following races. Note that LA and HD are waived: Gnoll (Take the appearance of dogs), Catfolk (called Nekomi), Kenku (made medium), Vanara, Ratfolk (called Nezumi), and Lizardfolk (Poison Dusk, Viletooth, and Standard)

Players may/may not recieve Paragon template from start, depending on whether or not you all think it's too powerful to let all players have.

All non-"caster" PrCs give full initiator boosts.

No other Base classes may be taken, but Some PrC requirements will be waived as needed.


So here's my questions:
1. Would giving my players Paragon be too much?
2. Is this a good campaign idea
3. The idea is that I want the campaign to run similarly to Jade Empire, allowing players to "learn" new disciplines. How should I do this, as to avoid munchkinization.
4. Is the class limitation too strict to work well?

Thanks in advance

true_shinken
2010-11-28, 01:52 PM
Is this a campaign idea, really? Looks more like a set of houserules.
Also, I don't specifically like those houserules. Paragon template is just too good, I wouldn't like to be forced to play as an antropomorphic animal, I wouldn't like to be forced to play a Swordsage (not even a martial adept; speficially a Swordsage)... I could go on and on.
Why do you even call this an Oriental Adventures campaign anyway?

SurlySeraph
2010-11-28, 02:01 PM
1. Are we talking about the same Paragon template here? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) If we are, I don't think you should even need to ask that question. I mean, you can still take them out with high damage or spells with high save DCs, but seriously now.
2. Making odd races available is usually good. Forcing players to use an odd race is usually bad. The details of the actual campaign are quite sketchy; a martial-arts-questing campaign can certainly work, though.
3. XP costs can work. Making them pay skill points for discipline access is cheaper and could also work.
4. It'll be tricky to fill some standard party roles (buffer, for example) for the first 5 levels or so. But if you tailor the encounters to mostly be surmountable by fighting and/or stealth, it can work fine. Do note that since everyone will be playing fairly similar characters even if they use wildly different disciplines, there may be pretty noticeable power gaps between players depending on how good they are at optimizing.
This doesn't sound that enjoyable from what you've given so far, but I can see potential.

Hanuman
2010-11-28, 03:33 PM
Depends what you are having them doing, and what NPCs go with them.

Sounds like everyone should take leadership feat and bring a caster and skillmonkey with them just to get past some otherwise impossible obstacles, as lacking teleport, healing, flight and dungeoneering expertise of any kind can get players killed in dungeons. One slip in a slanted cave could lead to 10d20 falling damage and hit for massive.

Tokuhara
2010-11-28, 03:39 PM
To clarify: I am using OA for what my players will fight/face/whatever. Itll be a lower magic campaign, where the players won't be facing mages or whatever. More/less, I want Jade Empire for DnD and test my players. So how could I make this more "fun", while keeping everyone a swordsage?

nedz
2010-11-28, 03:48 PM
I think that this is an interesting campaign idea.
One possible difficulty you will have is getting your players to buy into the idea, but if you can do that then it should work fine.
You will have to find some way of allowing them to heal up etc., but thats not unsurmountable.
I would let them multiclass myself, it would allow them to be more creative.

Dralnu
2010-11-28, 04:10 PM
as lacking teleport, healing, flight and dungeoneering expertise of any kind can get players killed in dungeons. One slip in a slanted cave could lead to 10d20 falling damage and hit for massive.

Not everyone considers having an easy answer to everything as "fun." Personally, I like campaigns where obstacles must be overcome with more mundane abilities. It generally adds to the challenge and makes the adventure more cinematic, which is enjoyable for me. Only poorly designed encounters would require you to have an ability in order to succeed when the party doesn't have access to it anyway. No WOTC premade that I played through required a wizard.

As for the idea, you need to work with your players to find out what they want from the campaign. You're placing an awful lot of restrictions of what they can and can't do. This can be fine, but if your prospective players don't like it then the campaign won't fly. As shinken said, some people don't want to be a furry and even more will object to being locked into the same specific class as everyone else.

I would suggest loosening up the restrictions. For the campaign itself, you don't really have to change too much from your standard stuff. Let them find more healing potions than there usually would be. If you intend to throw debuffers at them, make sure they have answers for that too. Perhaps they befriend a cleric NPC. You'll end up with a deadlier game than without magic but that's by no means a bad thing.

Tokuhara
2010-11-28, 04:22 PM
I think what Im going to do is let multiclassing, BUT require 5 swordsage levels before any multiclassing. This allows players to act as healer/mage without making everyone be a straight-up mage. Plus, I also am letting them take the variants so everyone can be what they want.

The reason for the race restriction is because my party, minus me, is the stereotypes. We have an elf ranger, a Dwarf Fighter, a Human Wizard, and a Halfling Rogue. As the oddity player, I play the odd characters, like a Tiefling Half-Celestial Dragonfire Adept/Dragon Disciple. So I want to shy the players away from their comfort zones

true_shinken
2010-11-28, 04:31 PM
I think what Im going to do is let multiclassing, BUT require 5 swordsage levels before any multiclassing. This allows players to act as healer/mage without making everyone be a straight-up mage. Plus, I also am letting them take the variants so everyone can be what they want.
Why are you doing this, really? Forcing everyone to play Swordsages?

Tokuhara
2010-11-28, 05:56 PM
Why are you doing this, really? Forcing everyone to play Swordsages?

The players are all Martial Artists of some sort, mastering unique styles each. Think Jade Empire. At least they arent all Monks

nedz
2010-11-28, 06:59 PM
The players are all Martial Artists of some sort, mastering unique styles each. Think Jade Empire. At least they arent all Monks

Nothing arong with having the whole party start out as monks, if thats what you wanted. It would lower the general OP level, but so what.

I like campaigns where the party have something cultural in common, far more interesting RP-wise than the stereotypical you all 'adventures' who meet in an 'Inn' and travel together for no IC reason at all.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-11-28, 07:14 PM
Hmm...While I know this may sound rather odd, if you don't mind D20 Modern and a healthy amount of homebrew you may want to, instead of forcing everybody to play as a swordsage, try using a refluffed version of D20 Naruto. Yes, it's a rather lengthy supplement, but flavor wise it dose everything you want but still allows other party rolls other then the front line melee fighter. In d20 Naruto most, if not all characters have at least some kind of martial arts ability and all of them can learn "jutsus" which are like spells but based on a chakra point system and have their own learning system..

While the Naruto flavor of D20 Naruto may be a bit of an issue, you can EASILY refluff it to whatever you want. Heck, even "jutsus" could become some kind of ki attacks. Also, as far as being martial artists go, even with "jutsus" most D20 Naruto characters have some kind of martial arts skills and even jutsu focused Naruto D20 characters will hardly play like a Wizard. Heck genjutsu specialists, which are the closest thing to a "caster" in the game, still have some degree of mundane fighting skill and make great spy/infiltration types.

So, while it may not initially be what your looking for, with some refluffing D20 Naruto can be great for modeling a party of martial artists who are not fullcasters without forcing everybody to play the same class.

If you need the D20 Naruto sourcebook, I have the link below. It's 100% free so there is no pirating worries.

D20 Naruto: http://www.narutod20.com/downloads/

Boci
2010-11-28, 08:21 PM
I like campaigns where the party have something cultural in common, far more interesting RP-wise than the stereotypical you all 'adventures' who meet in an 'Inn' and travel together for no IC reason at all.

If a DM can make something cultural that all PCs share to bind them together he could also make other reasons to avoid the inn sydrome. Besides, how is a common cultural any more interesting than the inn, "wow, you're from (insert X nation) too? Then clearly we must adventure together"

true_shinken
2010-11-28, 09:48 PM
The players are all Martial Artists of some sort, mastering unique styles each. Think Jade Empire. At least they arent all Monks

Why can't they be Crusaders, Swordsages, Rangers, Barbarians, Paladins, Rogues and Swashbucklers then? All these classes are devoted towards mastering some kind of fighting style. Hell, how about a Martial Wizard? That's even a stapple of the wuxia genre.
I sure as hell wouldn't like to be locked on Swordsage and I really don't see why doing it would make it more fun to anyone. But if your players don't mind, then that's not a problem.

Hanuman
2010-11-29, 10:17 AM
I think a better approach, instead of limiting yourself to "all members of party x are class y" to form a general approach, like you said, "all members in the party are martial artists."

This really could be anything with full BAB tbh, or they could even be a lower BAB class like psi warrior and still fit the bill.

So, why don't you give a more broad approach, like "you are mercenaries" or "you are an elite infiltration force" or whatever? How can you word it contextually that they are all "swordsages" without it sounding awkward in a story?

Tokuhara
2010-11-29, 11:44 AM
I think a better approach, instead of limiting yourself to "all members of party x are class y" to form a general approach, like you said, "all members in the party are martial artists."

This really could be anything with full BAB tbh, or they could even be a lower BAB class like psi warrior and still fit the bill.

So, why don't you give a more broad approach, like "you are mercenaries" or "you are an elite infiltration force" or whatever? How can you word it contextually that they are all "swordsages" without it sounding awkward in a story?

I just thought starting them off in Swordsage would be a way of putting everyone on even ground, and letting them multiclass as needed. However, I will probably broaden it to all 3 ToB classes, and have them build their ToB as needed. I only do this because they start off at their martial arts school, in a tournament set up by Master Wu to see which student(s) are the best

Hanuman
2010-11-29, 11:48 AM
I just thought starting them off in Swordsage would be a way of putting everyone on even ground, and letting them multiclass as needed. However, I will probably broaden it to all 3 ToB classes, and have them build their ToB as needed. I only do this because they start off at their martial arts school, in a tournament set up by Master Wu to see which student(s) are the best
Perfect!

I assume it will be level 1 ToB classes dealing NL vs. other level 1 warrior(npc class)?

true_shinken
2010-11-29, 12:03 PM
I just thought starting them off in Swordsage would be a way of putting everyone on even ground, and letting them multiclass as needed. However, I will probably broaden it to all 3 ToB classes, and have them build their ToB as needed. I only do this because they start off at their martial arts school, in a tournament set up by Master Wu to see which student(s) are the best
Ah, using all ToB looks a lot better. I aprove.
If they want more versatility and a wuxia feel, I would do something similar to Dragon Fist: say, all characters get Improved Unarmed Strike and Leap of the Heavens as bonus feats, maxed Jump skill. You could require all non-martial adept characters to take Martial Study or you could say they are still novices at the temple; they should take Martial Study or multiclass into martial adept as soon as possible.

Kudos on being more flexible with your concepts, that's the mark of a good DM I see there ^^

Tokuhara
2010-11-29, 03:42 PM
Well, I want them to start Martial Adept, since there are 3 players and all... I thought Swordsage was the ideal, but what I'm gonna do is make it so no 2 people can be the same class or race, to encourage them to blossom to whatever they want.

What Homebrew Disciplines should I allow? I want a wide array of abilities without "too many options" for them. Cthonic Serpent is a definite yes, but what others?

nedz
2010-11-29, 04:13 PM
If a DM can make something cultural that all PCs share to bind them together he could also make other reasons to avoid the inn sydrome. Besides, how is a common cultural any more interesting than the inn, "wow, you're from (insert X nation) too? Then clearly we must adventure together"

The Inn thing: It bacially comes down to how many times you have done it.

Oh and why do the PCs have to be "Adventurers" ?

Its a bit old - thats all.

The common culture gives more depth to role-play, as the PC's backgrounds are already intertwined.

Tokuhara
2010-11-29, 04:19 PM
I enjoy creative (my players call it cruel) openings, such as:

You all wake up. You are in the pits of the Colosseum you all have known all of your miserable lives. Your family sold you all to slavery at young ages to pay for their next meals, so you have been fighting as long as you remember. Today, it's a team battle. Winning team is free, losing teams die.

Pechvarry
2010-11-29, 04:30 PM
Starting with just Swordsages is fine. Don't give in to True Shinken's attacks on your campaign idea if even part of you is opposed to it. What he isn't realizing is that your group may not see a Crusader as very Wuxia. When we tried to do a Persian setting, letting just one player choose Warblade and showing up in mithral full plate quickly destroyed the flavor. You have a good right to limit it as you'd like.

Additionally, 4 players could build 4 completely different Swordsages. With homebrew disciplines, this spirals out to crazy amounts of possible Swordsages.

That said, I don't think you should require Swordsage 5 before players start multiclassing. Level 1 is enough, or you could simply require your players to keep their Swordsage levels even with their other classes.

Warlock works very well for the far eastern arcanists, which tend to be portrayed as rather dark beings.

+1 to granting everyone Improved Unarmed Attack and Leap of the Heavens though.

EDIT: I don't mean to be rude to True_Shinken. Re-reading, I sound like a jerk for which I apologize. I just don't think it's our place to tell someone else what kind of campaign he's allowed to run. As I think his players will be just fine with his restrictions, it will work out well enough that we really don't need to knee-jerk when we see what looks like someone wanting to restrict player creativity.

Boci
2010-11-29, 05:37 PM
The Inn thing: It bacially comes down to how many times you have done it.

Oh and why do the PCs have to be "Adventurers" ?

Adventurer is a broad enough term that it can suitably describe what PCs do in most games.


Its a bit old - thats all.

The common culture gives more depth to role-play, as the PC's backgrounds are already intertwined.

No, they just come from the same culture. I share a culture with over 60 million other people. It doesn't mean much. Besides, the PCs who meet in an inn could come from the same culture as well.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-11-29, 06:26 PM
All ToB sounds a lot better to me too. Also, as far as disciplines go, if one of them happens to be the Arrogant Kung Fu Guy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArrogantKungFuGuy) or some other dark/anti-hero types then the Dread Crown discipline from these forums is a really awesome and fun discipline that has some nice "evil/dark" maneuvers.(The capstone one can animate slain foes as undead!...take levels in blackguard, which according to your house rules now has full maneuver progression, for necromantic fun....unless of course you consider the blackguard a "caster" PrC due to it's own spell lists...which it REALLY is not.(Since it is made for martial characters and has it's OWN casting that is limited rather then CL boosts like other "caster" PrCs.) Likewise, if you have a player who wants to add a bit of comedy to the campaign then the Falling Anvil discipline, also from these forums, is silly but has awesome flavor.(It's basically loony toons style slapstick as martial arts...it's funny, epic and awesome....Oh, and it would make Maximilian Pegasus all giddy.)

true_shinken
2010-11-30, 10:10 AM
Well, I want them to start Martial Adept, since there are 3 players and all... I thought Swordsage was the ideal, but what I'm gonna do is make it so no 2 people can be the same class or race, to encourage them to blossom to whatever they want.

What Homebrew Disciplines should I allow? I want a wide array of abilities without "too many options" for them. Cthonic Serpent is a definite yes, but what others?

I like Black Rain and Dread Crown.

Greenish
2010-11-30, 11:51 AM
I like Black Rain and Dread Crown.I like 'em both too, but Black Rain might not fit the martial arts theme (especially if the setting lacks gunpowder), and Dread Crown is pretty evil.

Oh, and they're both creations of The Demented One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7315805&postcount=52).

Psyx
2010-11-30, 11:54 AM
To clarify: I am using OA for what my players will fight/face/whatever. Itll be a lower magic campaign, where the players won't be facing mages or whatever. More/less, I want Jade Empire for DnD and test my players. So how could I make this more "fun", while keeping everyone a swordsage?

Use a different game system? You're trying to bang a square peg into a round hole here; using 3.5 to portray a low magic oriental game where everyone is a swordsman. Use the right tool for the job.

L5r or Feng Shui, perhaps? Or... Quin. Quin is a fine game.

Boci
2010-11-30, 12:01 PM
Use a different game system? You're trying to bang a square peg into a round hole here; using 3.5 to portray a low magic oriental game where everyone is a swordsman. Use the right tool for the job.

L5r or Feng Shui, perhaps? Or... Quin. Quin is a fine game.

If the players and/or the DM don't want to learn a new system, E6 and some houserules can make a decent low magic setting.

Sir Swindle89
2010-11-30, 12:19 PM
Why don't you have them just all gestalt Swordsage or other martial adepts if you prefer along with another low magic class they want to play?

What level are you starting at? Paragon is super strong, I had a level 15 gestalt game going and teh guy i gave 1 level and the paragon template was still the strongest non-double caster.