Summoning

[Master Thrower]

I'm thinking of making a summoner as one of the two mages in the party. I have taken interest in the Alienist prc. I know its not the best but it seems decent enough to me. If i were to go into alienist, should I go sorcerer, or wizard? and what feats should I take?

[Ernir]

Alienist is... generally underwhelming. But yeah, if you want it, sure.

The usual route for supersummoners is the Malconvoker PrC (Complete Scoundrel), entered via a Conjurer Wizard with this alternate class feature. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#rapidSummoning)

[sreservoir]

I think archivist or favored soul works better: take a few levels of thaumaturgists to get Augmented Summoning, and note that the 3rd level ability applies to the summoning school, not the calling school.

[Redrat2k6]

If you want to go alienist, do not go Malconvoker. Malconvoker gets all it's goodies from the fact the creatures he summons are evil. Alienist's summon "pseudonatural" creatures only, thus removing all evil creature summons.

[Master Thrower]

Oh probably should've mentioned books usable are- PH,DMG,LB,CW,CadV,CA,CD,Drc.

[Dr.Epic]

I'm thinking of making a summoner as one of the two mages in the party. I have taken interest in the Alienist prc. I know its not the best but it seems decent enough to me. If i were to go into alienist, should I go sorcerer, or wizard? and what feats should I take?

Have you considered druid? They get spontaneous summoning or or you going for an arcane build?

[Master Thrower]

Have you considered druid? They get spontaneous summoning or or you going for an arcane build?
I'm going for an arcane build.

[Dr.Epic]

I'm going for an arcane build.

Well if you're going arcane and what your build to be about summoning, then sorcerer as they get more spells per day.

[Rainbownaga]

Since most of your spells will be "summon monster" sorcerer works well because it means you can cast other spells as well and still have your entire spell list available to switch to summon monster spells.

Wizard, on the other hand, has the advantage of higher level spells.

The variant conjurer from UA (in the SRD) is probably the best since you get an ability that reduces casting time of conjurations, and combined with the master specialist prestige class will allow you to cast summons as free actions a limmited number of times per day. With focused specialist as well, you'll have more summons and higher level than a sorcerer.

In all, I'd go wizard.

[Psyren]

Well if you're going arcane and what your build to be about summoning, then sorcerer as they get more spells per day.

Be a Focused Specialist Wizard instead - same spells/day, and you aren't half a level behind throughout your career. The icing on the cake would be these. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#conjurerVariants)

[Tvtyrant]

Be a Focused Specialist Wizard instead - same spells/day, and you aren't half a level behind throughout your career. The icing on the cake would be these. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#conjurerVariants)

I'm always tempted to have a character that uses all three and then goes into Malconvoker. Mmmmmm, summoning.

[Psyren]

I'm always tempted to have a character that uses all three and then goes into Malconvoker. Mmmmmm, summoning.

The third one is a trap actually - you want your bonus slots, and as a Malconvoker you'd be preparing Summon X spells every day anyway, so you gain nothing by being able to spontaneously summon (minus a level to boot!) So, skip that one.

The other two are fantastic though.

[Tvtyrant]

Oh I saw the weakness right out, but if I am going for broke with summoning I would probably take the bad with the good. Besides, Malconvoker is powerful enough it wouldn't significantly hurt you.

I actually like Sorc more for Malconvoker in general, because its got more synergy with Planar Binding then Wizard does. Same reason I like Sorcerer Anima Mages more actually.

[Fizban]

I would recommend against Sorcerer. Sorcerer's can't get a way to cast summon spells as a standard action that I know of, other than using horribly overpriced metamagics. Druids and clerics can get some nifty stuff, but that conjurer variant (from Unearthed Arcana, available in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm)) is for some reason the only one that gets to summon as a standard action. Sorcerers really don't have much of an advantage over specialized wizards in the spells per day department (and it galls me so), and if you bring in Complete Mage, they have no advantage at all over Focused Specialists.

On the other hand, the standard action summoning prevents your monsters from full attacking the round they appear, so a sorcerer with a magic item that lets him choose when and when not to use it would be nice. The chance to summon a pile of Energons and then have them full attack for 12d6 per energon would be amazing. Unfortunately the only one I know of is limited to 1/day.

I would recommend trying to get hold of a few more books. The various Monster Manuals, Feindish Codicies, and Planar Handbook all have more monsters you can summon. I think its PHBII that has a metamagic to buff your summons as you cast them. Unapproachable East has a feat that can let you apply an awesome template to your earth and air elementals, and the Eberron Campaign Setting has a similar one for druids. Magic of Eberron has another feat to boost elementals that you can stack on top of Augment Summoning for a total of +4 attack/damage. The Magic Item Compendium has a nice robe that lets you spontaneously cast summon spells a few times per day. While the books you've listed aren't a bad lot, there's really nothing for summoners in them other than Thaumaturgist. The true power of a summoner is in the fact that every monster they can summon gives them more options, and you need more books for more options. If you're wanting to summon for actual roll-to-hit combat, then eventually your monsters won't cut it any more, not matter how you try to buff them. If you aren't playing to that high of a level then go for it, stack your bonuses and buffs carefully, and watch your horde tear them apart.

[Psyren]

Oh I saw the weakness right out, but if I am going for broke with summoning I would probably take the bad with the good. Besides, Malconvoker is powerful enough it wouldn't significantly hurt you.

Giving up three schools of magic to be a generalist strikes me as significant, but you're correct that you'd still be a wizard at least.

[Kelb_Panthera]

assuming that LB (what book is that anyway?) doesn't contain a baseclass arcanist, you might consider wu-jen. Spell secret lets you permanently apply a metamagic to you favorite summon monster, and the companion spirit gets you an initiative re-roll 1/day.

[HMS Invincible]

Hi, I have a question that's related. I want to trade away my scribe scroll feat for the augment summoning one. What book is the ACF from?

[Yuki Akuma]

Unearthed Arcana, of course.

[Psyren]

Hi, I have a question that's related. I want to trade away my scribe scroll feat for the augment summoning one. What book is the ACF from?


Unearthed Arcana, of course.

To clarify Yuki's response - if you see a variant rule anywhere on the SRD, chances are pretty good it's from Unearthed Arcana. (There are exceptions to this of course, but it holds true in general.)