Who's been attacked by a swarm in real life? [rules opinions]

[Mulletmanalive]

I'm looking for thoughts from those who have been attaacked by large numbers of something as to whether the 4e "nasty attacks" format or the 3e "you cannot escape!" format is more accurate.

Then i'm hoping for people's opinions as to which is more interesting in play, on a tactical level...

[subject42]

I used to work at an orchard when I was younger, and as the new guy on the crew, I got stuck with bee duty whenever the problem came up.

Put simply, if you encounter a swarm of bees, you will be stung. The only way to not be stung is to not be where the bees are.

As far as which is more fun, I like the 3.5 version. Swarms are kind of a moving environmental hazard that can make a fight more interesting.

[gbprime]

I tend to agree. I got swarmed by grasshoppers once. Not dangerous at all, but they were all OVER me. (And knowing they're herbivores doesn't help when there are several crawling around on your face.) Getting away from them and then getting them OFF me was the tough part.

[Noedig]

Im gonna say the 3e "you can't get away."

I stepped onto a very large fire ant nest once, and managed to collapse it. Thousands of little red ants immediately began traveling up my leg, into my shoe, and elsewhere. They bit and stung me, and I could not get away (they were attached.) Thank god I wasn't allergic, or I'd have been screwed. Even so, I had to receive some serious medical treatment.

So taking the above into account, I think 3e fits best. Attacking the swarm did nothing, same with running away from the nest, while using a hose to spray them off, which lets say would function as AoE, did help immensely.

[Kurald Galain]

I was attacked by a needlefang drake once... it was pretty traumatic and my therapist says I shouldn't talk about it.

[Mulletmanalive]

My second question is whether you feel it is possible to dodge out of the way of a swarming?

The reason for this is that in my games, i've stopped using armour as defence, so ongoing damage is logical, but whether an initial attack is required is the second question. Perhaps a save to avoid?

[CodeRed]

I like the 3.5 "You can't escape part." As well, when I DM with swarms I go with the "moving environmental hazard" idea that Subject42 brought up. When one of my swarms moved into your space you took half of its Swarm Damage. If you were still in its space at the start of its next turn then it did the full damage.

I too had a nasty accident with fire ants since I live in Texas and I can tell you they are no fun. I was four and fell backwards into a fire ant pile while playing with my sister in our front yard. It took 10 minutes with a hose for my Dad to get them all off of me but by then I had 40+ bites. They took me to the hospital but luckily it wasn't bad enough to really hurt me. (Enough fire ant bites, even if you aren't allergic, has the potential to mess with your heart due to the venom they inject with their bites.) My back swelled up for days and it was bad enough that my babysitter reported my parents to Child Services, thinking they had been beating me.

[Incanur]

My father and I literally got chased down the road by a cloud of black flies, mosquitos, and other biting insects up in the northeastern United States.

[ajkkjjk52]

My second question is whether you feel it is possible to dodge out of the way of a swarming?

The reason for this is that in my games, i've stopped using armour as defence, so ongoing damage is logical, but whether an initial attack is required is the second question. Perhaps a save to avoid?

As for a save to avoid or a the need for an initial attack, I'd say no. There's really no amount of reflexes that will protect you against a swarm of angry bees, or spiders, or ants, lizards, bats, or whatever.

As for armor, I'd say that it might depend on what it is the swarm is composed of. Armor is no defense against insects; a swarm of ants will find the chinks in your platemail, period. But against something like a needlefang drake swarm, or a rat swarm, that's a bigger question... I'd keep the RAW, if for simplicities sake alone. You can justify it by the fact that these things are swarming ALL OVER you. There are rats clawing at your eyes through the slit in your visor, bats biting you through the leather covering the backside of you knees. An Otiluke's Mage's Resilient Sphere, yes, but armor is no protection.

[Mulletmanalive]

I'm going to go for armour buying a little time before they work their way in, reduced by the coverage [a bit alien but you get the idea]. Maybe give flying swarms better penetration but the ground ones a trip effect [i heard that about rats from someone i know]

[togapika]

I was swarmed by Alabama Fire Ants when I was very young, (7 or 8?), and I didn't notice they were on me till I started screaming...
I had to be hosed off, and was still in pain for quite a while..

[Fhaolan]

I've been in a swarm of bees before, and there are two defenses:

1) Having specialty clothing like a completely sealed haz-mat suit. Anything less that this will only reduce the chances of being stung, not eliminate it. Bugs *will* get in.

2) Not being there. Flying bugs as a rule can move much faster than you can, so getting out of the way of a swarm involves knowing they're coming long before they get there. That's what I did with the bee swarm. I noticed the odd dark cloud coming and got myself and my Mum into the car and drove to get out of the way. The swarm infested a boarded-up basement window on the house we were living in at the time, and when Dad got home he and I pulled the boards off (neither of us are alergic to bee stings, but Mum is, so it was annoying but survivable for us.) Once they were exposed to sunlight again, the swarm moved to a small tree nearby, covering the entire tree. We found a local bee-keeper who came and got them. Oddly, he said there were at least two queens in the swarm with the way they were acting.

[Shademan]

swarm of babies. no worries, I had my torch. torches does extra damage against swarms.
I'm just making a funny

[Mulletmanalive]

I've redesigned swarms to use mounting damage as they get in through your outfit with specially sealed suits being the only perfect protection.

Smaller creatures mount and get through the suit faster than big stuff like rats or crows but do less damage per round of damage...

i might fiddle a little more to make it a little simpler but i think i've gotten it working...

[Shademan]

what about making area effect attacks more powerful against them?
or is there something like that allready?
<-has not used swarms much. ever

[Mulletmanalive]

they normally have that, though i've taken the option of giving them resistance to conventional attacks based on size and fewer hp [most below tiny size are going to have hd - 4 or 5 per level].

I don't know, but i reckon the concussive force of a grenade [they're current in my game] should be able to do a lot of damage to a dense cloud of bees...

[Keld Denar]

3.5 swarms automatically take 1.5x damage from area attacks. Thus, your fireball is effectively auto-empowered when blasting swarms.

The fun part is when you template swarms. Half-Red Dragon Hellwasp Swarms 4tw! Fireball what?

[Bayar]

I once pitched my tent over a colony of pissed-off ants. And proceeded to sleep. Needless to say, the results were preety painful.

And 2 years ago, I got swarmed by mosquitoes when I got out of the car to take a leak. Bite marks everywhere.

[Noedig]

Also, this just came to me, Driver Ants in Africa have been known to kill people by suffocating them. They crawl into just about every orifice and clog the airways. You may think about adding that to your swarms.

[Mulletmanalive]

Also, this just came to me, Driver Ants in Africa have been known to kill people by suffocating them. They crawl into just about every orifice and clog the airways. You may think about adding that to your swarms.

It would certainly make a good secondary ability, like the poison of wasp swarms or the eye pecking of a murder of crows. Thanks!

[Curmudgeon]

Mosquitoes on the beach, coming out of the nearby woods at sunset. I'm with the 3.5 model here: you can't avoid them.

[thompur]

I once pitched my tent over a colony of pissed-off ants. And proceeded to sleep. Needless to say, the results were preety painful.

And 2 years ago, I got swarmed by mosquitoes when I got out of the car to take a leak. Bite marks everywhere.

That's a double oooch!!