Mount's Turn

[Hanuman]

So how exactly does a paladin's mount work in terms of initiative and such?

For instance, let's say I took the feat Swift Call and was able to summon the mount as a swift action and i used a move action to mount it, could it move in that round allowing a standard action in a charge?

[Moriato]

Your mount acts on your initiative, unless something about a paladin's mount specifically says otherwise, but I don't believe it does.

In your specific example, I don't think that would work, since you've already used your move action for the round. Getting on the mount doesn't give you a free move.

You could mount up and then move using the rest of your turn, or make a melee or ranged attack, or cast a spell, though.

Edit: I just noticed that you can make a DC 20 ride check to "Fast Mount" a mount no more than one size category larger than you, making mounting a free action. If you did that, then you could do all that you described in one round.

[Curmudgeon]

could it move in that round allowing a standard action in a charge?
You're only allowed a standard action charge (AKA "partial charge") if some condition prevents you from taking full-round actions. That's not the case here. But if you've used a swift (Swift Call) + free (fast mount Ride check) action, you would be able to make a charge.

[Hanuman]

Ah so the mount's movement uses your movement action?
So I couldn't let's say, draw a sword while moving on a mount?

[Curmudgeon]

Ah so the mount's movement uses your movement action?
So I couldn't let's say, draw a sword while moving on a mount?
No, you can take your own move actions; you just can't move using them.

Read the Mounted Combat rules here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#mountedCombat).

[Hanuman]

No, you can take your own move actions; you just can't move using them.

Read the Mounted Combat rules here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#mountedCombat).
And I guess using a move to get on a mount would be considered "moving" huh.

[DonEsteban]

To the original question: Yes, I think you could unless Swift Call feat specifically says something else. Call your mount as a swift action, mount it as a move action, then your horse charges (full-round action), then you attack with your standard action getting the usual AC penalty/attack bonus as per mounted combat rules. The only questionable thing is if your mount's turn can indeed interrupt your own turn (i.e. come between your move and standard action), but you could always solve this with a ready action.

Now I'm just wondering how any other abilities you might have and that let you do something on a charge would be affected by this.

[Hanuman]

To the original question: Yes, I think you could unless Swift Call feat specifically says something else. Call your mount as a swift action, mount it as a move action, then your horse charges (full-round action), then you attack with your standard action getting the usual AC penalty/attack bonus as per mounted combat rules. The only questionable thing is if your mount's turn can indeed interrupt your own turn (i.e. come between your move and standard action), but you could always solve this with a ready action.

Now I'm just wondering how any other abilities you might have and that let you do something on a charge would be affected by this.
Well the most cinematic thing I can think of, is summoning a mount while in mid-air coming from a move action, like jumping onto a mount except the mount is always exactly where it needs to be thanks to summoning it AFTER you jump, possibly you just do a jump and assume a riding position and materialize the mount under you as if you were riding it, that way it would be PART of your movement action, but in that respect I can both side with the mount having and not having extra movement... especially if your mount was something like a dire cheetah or something like that, as you'd probably be able to get up to ridiculous speeds abusing the hell out of that.

[Coidzor]

Except you only have so many uses per day of summoning the mount. So they could use it... for some purpose... to get that extra movement in a tight spot, but I don't see the abuse potential.

Like, ok, you can charge someone 150 feet away...

Guess who is eating all of the opposition's anti-melee capabilities.

I'm pretty sure the mount has your initiative count anyway, so with the appropriate jump check as part of a move or falling from something higher which is, as always, situational... but then so it having 150 feet of charging being desired or necessary.

[unimaginable]

The way I picture it working is that you summon the mount in a way where it immediately starts to run, and gracefully mount it as it's already starting to move, and, in the same motion, draw and start to swing your weapon. So, yeah, swift summon, + free action to mount + charge. Failing the DC 20 ride check would mean you're not able to get onto the horse and get your bearings fast enough to make your charge attack immediately.

[Susano-wo]

To the original question: Yes, I think you could unless Swift Call feat specifically says something else. Call your mount as a swift action, mount it as a move action, then your horse charges (full-round action), then you attack with your standard action getting the usual AC penalty/attack bonus as per mounted combat rules. The only questionable thing is if your mount's turn can indeed interrupt your own turn (i.e. come between your move and standard action), but you could always solve this with a ready action.

Now I'm just wondering how any other abilities you might have and that let you do something on a charge would be affected by this.

That's the way I read the mounted combat rules,. The important sentence allowing charge is:
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance.

[Hanuman]

If your mount moves into an opponents square, does your opponent gain 2 AoO's, one for you and one for your mount?

[Flickerdart]

And I guess using a move to get on a mount would be considered "moving" huh.
It wouldn't. Moving is only walking around, stuff like standing from prone doesn't count.

[skywalker]

Well the most cinematic thing I can think of, is summoning a mount while in mid-air coming from a move action, like jumping onto a mount except the mount is always exactly where it needs to be thanks to summoning it AFTER you jump, possibly you just do a jump and assume a riding position and materialize the mount under you as if you were riding it, that way it would be PART of your movement action, but in that respect I can both side with the mount having and not having extra movement... especially if your mount was something like a dire cheetah or something like that, as you'd probably be able to get up to ridiculous speeds abusing the hell out of that.

Have done. My first DM never put us in dungeons, so I optimized the hell out of my horse (and the shining armor). The damned thing had more hitpoints than the wizard and was faster than a train wearing its horseshoes of speed.

"I want my horse." "But we're infiltrating a castle." "I'll get to the top of the wall, then jump off as I summon it into the courtyard." "That's not very sneaky." "Then I guess the 'infiltrate' part is over. HI-YO SILVER!"


Like, ok, you can charge someone 150 feet away...

Guess who is eating all of the opposition's anti-melee capabilities.

That would sound pretty awesome to certain paladins...


That's the way I read the mounted combat rules,. The important sentence allowing charge is:

This is incorrect. The mount would be able to charge, but not with any direction from you. One might argue that a paladin mount would be smart enough to do these things on its own, but a normal horse certainly could not. Here's why:

Mounted Combat starts with a discussion of directing horses in combat. A normal horse requires a check and a move action. A failed check turns the move action to control the horse into a full round action. Warhorses don't require a check, BUT they still require a move action to direct to move. When it comes to attacks, the rules require you to either attack, have your mount attack, or make a ride check to fight simultaneously.

In the situation described (without the free action mount) the player would summon the mount as a swift action, mount as a move action, and although the mount would have a move action left, the player would be unable to tell it to do anything, since they spent their move action mounting. The horse could move, but whether it's smart enough to do so is up for debate. I would doubt that you'd be able to attack at the end due to the vagaries of coordination, but the rules allow you to make an attack at the end of your mount's charge, so if it instinctively knew to charge the enemy you preferred, it could work out. It would also have to instinctively know not to attack, and to instead let you have the attack it normally gets at the end of the charge. All in all, it's a bit of silliness to say that a domesticated animal trained to wait for and then accept commands would take off running with you aboard without being asked, and that the animal, having behaved in a manner so out of character, would then begin behaving in character again, but what do I know? I have practically given up D&D for WoD. Bear in mind that ordinarily, either you or your mount get to attack, not both. When you charge on your mount, you are both taking a combined full round action, but you have used your move action to tell the mount what to do, your mount has used its move action to get there, and then you are making the charge attack.

All of this goes out the window when you start making a series of ride checks which are (IMO) very easily made trivial. It's a DC20 ride check to mount or dismount as a free action, and that should be the hardest check you have to make. As long as you've been pumping ride*, it shouldn't be too difficult to begin with. Items that grant a +5 bonus to a single skill (like Boots of Elvenkind) are 2,500 GP. A +10 bonus is 10,000 GP. Not a paltry sum, but if you're going to optimize your mounted combat, why not?

Anyway, you make the check to mount as a free action, and then it's gravy. There's a DC 10 check to fight alongside your mount, and now you and horsey are the bane of any medium or smaller evil.

To summarize, it takes a move action to point your horse in the right direction. From the SRD (I have bolded pertinent information):


Control Mount in Battle

As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for warhorses or warponies.

It doesn't say a move action isn't required, it says a roll isn't required for a warhorse or pony.

Again from the SRD:


A heavy warhorse can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check.

So, unless you make the Ride check detailed as DC 10 here:


Fight with Warhorse

If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.

you can't attack. Without the check, the entire horse/human combo gets one attack, just like it gets one movement. BUT, it doesn't say the human loses his standard action, only that he can't attack. The SRD is not explicit on what type of action is required to direct your mount to attack, but you would have to tell it to attack in the same move action as telling it to move, since the rules for the DC 10 check are pointed in giving you the check as a free action. They don't talk about turning something that is normally a standard action into a free action (as directing your mount to attack could be conjectured to be), they just talk about negating the prohibition as a free action. This implies that the standard action remains intact for potential other uses even if/when the horse is pawing somebody with his hoof. So in the first round, the horse could charge, but you couldn't attack at the end of it.

So, again, and now seemingly fairly exhaustively, you can't swift call, mount as a move action, then charge, in the same round. It is much easier than you might think to start doing tricks like Legolas in LotR, however.

*and really, if you've been planning these shenanigans, why haven't you been pumping ride?! You're a paladin, you get crappy skills anyway. Know(Religion)? Yeah, you're gonna beat the cleric at that. Heal is in the same boat. Know(Nobility)? Are you kidding? Concentration is quasi-worthless too. Handle Animal is one of the least useful skills in the game, and Profession and Craft are just there. Now, you've got Sense Motive as the only thing competing against Ride. Come on Lancelot, get with the program.


It wouldn't. Moving is only walking around, stuff like standing from prone doesn't count.

Yeah, "movement" is only a limit on the distance you're allowed to travel in a round. An interesting question I see is the one about drawing the weapon: It's a free action to draw a weapon "as part of a normal move." Question is, does this mean as part of the standard "move" action listed under "move actions?" Or does it mean that any time you are using your movement and your hands are not otherwise occupied, you can spend the moving time to draw?

[Curmudgeon]

If your mount moves into an opponents square, does your opponent gain 2 AoO's, one for you and one for your mount?If the action provokes, all creatures taking that action provoke: so yes. The same goes for bull rushing combatants, who can both provoke AoOs when they move together.