Eldritch Disciple optimization help?

[BobSutan]

I've got 4 levels to play with of building a Eldritch Disciple. So far I've got a human, chaotic good, cleric 3, warlock 1.

Feats are Point Black Shot (Elf Doman), Precise Shot (1st level), Augment Healing (1st level), and Practiced Spellcaster (warlock) (3rd level).

He's the party healer, but also a ranged support and crowd control in a pinch. Thoughts?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Human... with the Elf domain? Racial domains are only granted by race-specific deities, who only accept members of that race as intermediaries. A human could worship an elven deity, but he'd have a difficult time getting spells and domains granted to him. It's similar to a nonlawful cleric taking the law domain, it's not something that can normally occur and smacks of bad form. Most DMs will recognize that a player is only doing it for reasons of game mechanics rather than role-playing. It's not "I want to play a human who was raised by elves" situation, it's more like, "I want the elf domain but I also want the human bonus feat, so I'll work it into my background." Race-specific domains are only granted by race-specific deities, who only accept members of that race as clerics. A human cannot take the elf domain unless the DM makes an exception.

[Sir Swindle89]

Eldritch Galive and go melee. You can use healing blast with it and hit your allies with iterative attacks for tons of healing.

[Psyren]

A Human... with the Elf domain? Racial domains are only granted by race-specific deities, who only accept members of that race as intermediaries. A human could worship an elven deity, but he'd have a difficult time getting spells and domains granted to him. It's similar to a nonlawful cleric taking the law domain, it's not something that can normally occur and smacks of bad form.

1) If Humans can be accepted by elves enough to be Ruathar, why can't they be allowed to take the Elf domain? I would think all that is required is a measure of dedication to the Elf people or the Elven way of life.

2) The deities transcend race in any event. Look at FR - it turns out that Selune and Sehanine Moonbow were the same deity all along. Similarly, Hanali Celanil was Sune and Aerdrie Faenya was Akadi all along.

3) Warlocks themselves can gain their powers via fey ancestry. This particular human might have Eladrin blood in his line somewhere far back, and they are elven progenitors as well.

4) Most importantly, nothing in RAW says that humans can't worship a racial deity or that members of a given race can't take a racial domain.

[BobSutan]

A Human... with the Elf domain? Racial domains are only granted by race-specific deities, who only accept members of that race as intermediaries. A human could worship an elven deity, but he'd have a difficult time getting spells and domains granted to him. It's similar to a nonlawful cleric taking the law domain, it's not something that can normally occur and smacks of bad form. Most DMs will recognize that a player is only doing it for reasons of game mechanics rather than role-playing. It's not "I want to play a human who was raised by elves" situation, it's more like, "I want the elf domain but I also want the human bonus feat, so I'll work it into my background." Race-specific domains are only granted by race-specific deities, who only accept members of that race as clerics. A human cannot take the elf domain unless the DM makes an exception.

This is his character background:

The PC's lineage is that of a shamed traitor. His father was a high ranking official in the government, but it was claimed he turned and joined the enemy as a spy, thus abandoning his family in the process. The family he left behind was shunned, their property stripped, and forced to seek refuge outside the city. From his early childhood he's known little comfort except that of strangers, although when he was a small child a clan of elves in the forest adopted them in as strays and gave them a home in their community. It was this clan that discovered his hidden infernal and healing talents, raising him as one of their own, although they shielded him from his darker lineage (Warlock). When he grew older he vowed to get to the bottom of what really happened to his father, and if possible clear the family name. He begins this quest by infiltrating the city guard, which is what the campaign is all about.

[Sir Swindle89]

3) Warlocks themselves can gain their powers via fey ancestry. This particular human might have Eladrin blood in his line somewhere far back, and they are elven progenitors as well.

Need i mention that Eladrin is a type of Chaotic Good Outsider not elves native to the Shiny-inner-plane-land try to keep your editions straight.

On a productive note, Quicken SLA gives you a free Eldritch blast 3times per day, very nice. and try to stack on turn attempts to get more healing blasts.

[Duke of URL]

On a productive note, Quicken SLA gives you a free Eldritch blast 3times per day, very nice. and try to stack on turn attempts to get more healing blasts.

Requires invoker level 10, plus another 2 for each ESL greater than 1 of (the higher ESL of) any shape or essence added to it.

[Psyren]

Need i mention that Eladrin is a type of Chaotic Good Outsider not elves native to the Shiny-inner-plane-land try to keep your editions straight.

I am, are you? Please read about the "Court of Stars" in BoED.

For example, here is an excerpt of Gwynharwyf's description:


A short, stocky elf stands ready for battle. Her hair is a wild silver-white mane, and her eyes are as green as jade. She has a tanned complexion and clutches a pair of gleaming scimitars that seem to reflect every color of the rainbow.

Gwynharwyf, the Whirling Fury
Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Eladrin, Extraplanar, Good)

*insert cutting rejoinder here*

[BobSutan]

Eldritch Galive and go melee. You can use healing blast with it and hit your allies with iterative attacks for tons of healing.

What's healing blast? How does that work?

[Psyren]

What's healing blast? How does that work?

Eh??? You picked ED and wanted to be a healer and didn't know about that?? :smalleek:

Basically, you spend a turn attempt to turn your eldritch blast into a sugary ray of healing goodness. You can also pile Blast Shapes on top of that, giving you Healing Chain, Healing Cone, Healing Doom etc.

It works well because you can heal multiple targets at range in the middle of combat, without having to waste spells.

Since you are Wis-focused already, get Zen Archery to aim your blasts with.

[Urpriest]

What's healing blast? How does that work?

Healing Blast is one of the Gifts of the Divine you get from being an Eldritch Disciple. It's one of the better ones if you want to be healing focused.

By the way, Practiced Spellcaster(Warlock) won't do all that much for you. Very little that Warlocks do is based on caster level.

[BobSutan]

Ah, see I'm not into ED yet. Still level 4, but in the planning stages atm. Healing Blast is fantastic though.

Zen archery would be good for my long term plans, but he's already feat limited IMO. I suppose I could shoot for that at 6th and start pumping all this future ability points into wisdom, along with any item bumps.

[Psyren]

By the way, Practiced Spellcaster(Warlock) won't do all that much for you. Very little that Warlocks do is based on caster level.

Well, one major thing is the check to overcome SR with his blasts. I agree it's not a priority though - he can just use SR: No spells or party buffs when faced with enemies like that.

Zen Archery is definitely a better investment; you'll also want some Extra Turning and/or Nightsticks in there.

[BobSutan]

Well, it's probably too late to retool this character, but I was thinking about future builds of something similar and a couple levels of monk and making this a melee build would be really good from what I can tell. Doubly so with VOP. Wis, Dex, and Cha are all going to be pretty high so AC will naturally be good, and there's some good low level AC buffing cleric spells to help out as well.

[Sir Swindle89]

Why monk?
You don't need unarmed strike (you have eldrich galive)
You don't need wis to AC you have heavy armor.
Fast movement?

There might be some shenanigins you could do to get eldritch galive as a flurry of blows wepon but thats quite a streach and probably only worth it if you can do gestalt (granted Eldritch Disciple is usually banned in gestalt any way)

[Greenish]

There might be some shenanigins you could do to get eldritch galive as a flurry of blows weponEldritch Glaive isn't an actual weapon. Both Flurry of Blows and using Eldritch Glaive are full round actions, so you can't get both.

Funny though, looking at the description of EG, it seems the writers of Dragon Magic thought warlocks had poor BAB.

[Sir Swindle89]

Eldritch Glaive isn't an actual weapon. Both Flurry of Blows and using Eldritch Glaive are full round actions, so you can't get both.

Funny though, looking at the description of EG, it seems the writers of Dragon Magic thought warlocks had poor BAB.

They could have War Hulk BAB for all it really matters. They never use the extra attacks and every thing is a touch attack.

[Greenish]

They could have War Hulk BAB for all it really matters. They never use the extra attacksExcept for the aforementioned Eldritch Glaive. Besides, I didn't say it's a real hurdle, I just find it amusing the people designing new invocations for the class forgot the basics of said class.

[BobSutan]

The monk helps with the AC and gives FoB, which when used with ED's class feature I forget the name of, you can combined the FoB with the Eldrich Blash (once per round). It was just a way of toying around with a melee build. Another option might be to mix fighter in instead of monk for the bonus feats and then going ED.

[Urpriest]

The monk helps with the AC and gives FoB, which when used with ED's class feature I forget the name of, you can combined the FoB with the Eldrich Blash (once per round). It was just a way of toying around with a melee build. Another option might be to mix fighter in instead of monk for the bonus feats and then going ED.

You can't combine Flurry of Blows with Eldritch Blast in any way that I know of, including ED's class features. I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

[Diarmuid]

I'm also coming up blank figuring how to combine eldritch blast with flurry in any way other than using Quicken SLA.

[Greenish]

You can't combine Flurry of Blows with Eldritch Blast in any way that I know of, including ED's class features. I'm not sure what you're referring to here.Eldritch Claws & Beast Strike.

[Sir Swindle89]

I'm also coming up blank figuring how to combine eldritch blast with flurry in any way other than using Quicken SLA.

Don't think that would even work (1 swift action per round)

[Urpriest]

Eldritch Claws & Beast Strike.

Hmm, and that would double-dip unarmed damage as well. Interesting.

[Greenish]

Don't think that would even work (1 swift action per round)Quickened EB takes a swift action, flurry is a full round action, so that's not a problem.

[Duke of URL]

Quickened EB takes a swift action, flurry is a full round action, so that's not a problem.

I know I'm repeating myself, but a quickened eldritch blast also requires a minimum invoker level of 10 (higher if adding shapes or essences that increase the ESL, to a maximum of level 20 required for an ESL 6 blast), something that's going to come late in any Eldritch Disciple build, especially one that dips Monk as well.

[Greenish]

I know I'm repeating myself, but a quickened eldritch blast also requires a minimum invoker level of 10 (higher if adding shapes or essences that increase the ESL, to a maximum of level 20 required for an ESL 6 blast), something that's going to come late in any Eldritch Disciple build, especially one that dips Monk as well.So? The fact that you only get one swift action each turn still isn't the problem.

[BobSutan]

Assuming only a 10th level campaign, what would you guys recommend then for a solid melee build? Some of the stuff posted above is interesting, but I think it goes beyond 10th level. I could always do some retraining later one to get the necessary feats to pull it off. Now that we've played in this campaign I found we've only got one tank really and the other two are casters, one being a serious glass cannon with only 3HP at 1st level. On the other hand I do like being able to EB while having the weakling next to me in case he needs healing. The problem is I tend to draw aggro and end up in melee anyway.

[Ankhman]

try the searchfunction (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1218739) of this forum - there are several threads on the eldritch disciple, for example mine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165334) .. but there are more. plus you need a 4th level of cleric or a second of warlock to enter ED. solid melee would be a pure warlock with eldritch glaive or a cleric with DMM cheese. ED is more of a fluff-class imho.
precise shot and point blank shot isn't really needed as your EB is ranged touch and at later levels your BAB is rising, but the bigger they are, the easier they are to hit.
zen archery was already mentioned.
augment healing isn't that useful .. better use healing reserve for emergencies and later on it's usefulness drops more and more. i mean, for example 12 extra points with a Heal is not a "wow"-factor.

there is ... was a nice warlock information thread on brilliantgameologists.com also .. don't know, how to access that now.