(3.5) Permanent Thunderlance

[Goonthegoof]

I saw the Thunderlance spell (page 220, spell compendium) and thought it would make a rather nice weapon for my bard. Now I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to make a permanent one for him to use. Creating a permanent item of Thunderlance would cost (4x7x2000x4)=224000 gold. Since the caster level is irrelevant, is there any way of casting a level 4 spell at a caster level lower than 7?

Additionally if I were to get it made, could I have it enchanted like a regular weapon?

[Curmudgeon]

is there any way of casting a level 4 spell at a caster level lower than 7?
No.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

Additionally if I were to get it made, could I have it enchanted like a regular weapon?
No. From the Craft Magic Arms And Armor [Item Creation] (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftMagicArmsAndArmor) feat:

The weapon, armor, or shield to be enhanced must be a masterwork item that you provide.

You can’t add the masterwork quality to a weapon after it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork weapon (see the Craft skill).

[Goonthegoof]

Well damn. Is the permanency metamagic effect applicable to the spell?

Also if you need a minimum CL of 7, what happens if you have the spellgifted (something non-evocation) trait or similar? Can you not cast it until you reach level 8?

[Person_Man]

A 4th level scroll costs what, 700ish gp? How many encounters are you actually going to play over the course of a campaign? Because it might be a lot cheaper just to buy 3-4 scrolls every time you go to town, and use them only as needed. (This also makes more metagame sense. If your DM expects you to use Thunderlance 100% of the time, he adjusts the difficulty of every encounter upwards to compensate. But if you only use it occasionally and vary your tactics, then encounters tend to be easier. This is the primary benefit of casters in general.)

Also, it's not that hard to get Charisma to your To-Hit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732). In addition to Thunderlance, there's Snowflake Wardance, Slippers of Battledancing, Whirling Blade, any Smite ability, etc.

[Darrin]

You can use Persistent Spell on Thunderlance, but it's hard to pull off without a liberal dose of Incantatrix.

However... six levels of Lyric Thaumaturge can put Thunderlance on your spell list. Add Arcane Thesis, Energy Substitution, Born of Three Thunders, Practical Metamagic, and Persistent Spell. Around ECL 13ish, you can cast a persistent thunderlance that does an additional +6d6 sonic damage (Sonic Might) on top of the 3d6 from the spell, and the target has to save vs. stun and save vs. knocked prone.

[Cieyrin]

You can use Persistent Spell on Thunderlance, but it's hard to pull off without a liberal dose of Incantatrix.

However... six levels of Lyric Thaumaturge can put Thunderlance on your spell list. Add Arcane Thesis, Energy Substitution, Born of Three Thunders, Practical Metamagic, and Persistent Spell. Around ECL 13ish, you can cast a persistent thunderlance that does an additional +6d6 sonic damage (Sonic Might) on top of the 3d6 from the spell, and the target has to save vs. stun and save vs. knocked prone.

Alternatively, you could use Flickerdart's Bardzilla (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8595585) to Metamagic Song a Thunderlance everyday and have other Persisted spells in addition.