Improved Monster Classes IV (Closed)

[Gorgondantess]

Well, this is my 2nd thread as the... Leader? of this project. I think we're going much more for quality over quantity than in the previous threads, so let's make sure every last monster is perfect.:smallcool:

Introduction
As you may know, 3.5 allows you to play monsters as PCs, but with a cost: LA and RHD.

However, most monsters out there weren't designed for player use, and end up with fat LAs to keep the players away from powerfull abilities like greater teleport at will.

Plus, monsters with higher HD than CR also aren't very usefull for players.

And then, the players have to deal with many of their monster abilities don't improving with leveling up.

In this thread, we'll pick up popular monsters and re-design them to be useable by players, so that they can play any monster with CR X by level X. I'll acomplish this by:
-Adjusting RHD to always match the player's level to so as not to punish/reward them against level dependent abilities.
-Reducing huge ability bonuses and natural armor.
-Making monster special abilities HD dependent so they keep increasing.
-Cut down most abusable abilities to keep the power level in check. No stuff like at will teleport at level 5.


Monster classes building guidelines.
I've edited a few of these to be more lenient- in general, if you're making the monster, you deserve some leeway. My additions are in bold.


0-Put your monster class into a post of his own, statistics spoilered, spoilered comments below and a non-spoilered picture above everything, monster name in bold. Put the ability descriptions by order they're gained and their names italized, the monster HD, skills and class features should be bolded. Use other monsters as guidelines.

1-Number of levels of the class=CR of the monster (or CR increase on case of template-classes). This is as simple as it gets. If the monster is epic CR then you can cut it down to 20 levels, though it's still okay to go into epic if you'd prefer- in that case, though, it's generally a good idea to give all of its important abilities by pre-epic. If the monster is less than CR 20 and you feel inspired then you can do some extra levels for some kind of "paragon" or "lord" monster with completely custom abilities- include these in a different statblock.

2-If it's not an undead or construct, then ignore the basic monster saves, skills, proficiencies and BAB progression. Use your own judgement to determine these- a huge, hulking outsider shouldn't have good reflex saves, etc. The more and/or better abilities, the worse saves/skills/BAB/proficiencies the monster should have.
As for BAB: if a monster is very strong but not skilled, it should have a strength bonus every level and 3/4 BAB. If it is skilled but not strong, it should have more scant strength bonuses and full BAB. However, if it feels lacking, it's always okay to give both full strength bonuses & full BAB. After all, melee needs nice things too.

2a-If it's an undead or construct, no good fort or reflex saves, 2+int skill points per level and no class skills. Generally- exceptions are possible, but you have to have a really good reason. This is for balancing the powerful traits of those creature types. Constructs get average BAB and bad will saves and undead get bad BAB and good will saves. Ditto.

3-Monster classes remove any base race advantages at first level. Template classes do not. Take in acount this so 1st level of the monster class can be better than 1st level of most classes because you're sacrificing your race, roughly worth two-three feats.

4-Base natural armor on Con modifier. The default is Nat armor=Con modifier. Stronger monsters can have something like X+Con modifier (keep X low though), or half Con modifier. Undeads and constructs should base it on Str. For "smart" or "spellcaster" monsters you may make the Nat armor based on a mental score instead, but if it is fullcasting, don't use its spellcasting ability for natural armor.

5-Ability score increases shouldn't be more than +1 to any score in any level. You may take exceptions to this at 1st level in certain cases. No ability score penalties unless you have a really good reason.

5a-Speaking of which, try to base each monster class in two stats, three at max. Don't go around giving bonus to every one of the six stats, players really don't need it and it clogs up the class. If you feel like a monster should be smart, it's preferable to simply give it more skill points than Int boosts. Ability score bonuses should directly relate to the class- if the class doesn't use intelligence (other than for skill points), don't give it an intelligence bonus. If it doesn't use charisma, don't give it a charisma bonus. Etc.
Generally, constitution is always okay to give, as is strength for a melee class or dexterity if it's applicable.

5b-Extra scores should only be used if the monster is gaining minor abilities or has bad base statistics (low Bab, saves, no proefeciencies, no hands).

6-Break down the monster abilities into separate groups, figure out the levels on which it would be fair for them to be available to a player, then distribute them through the monster levels so you gain something nice at every one. No dead levels, no levels where you only get ability scores. Period.

6a-Flying should only come at 4th level, unless you're a handless monster without ranged attacks, or anything crippling along those lines. Growth can come online as early at level 3, but it's preferable at 4th level or higher.
See Hyruda's Wyvern's Leathery Wings ability (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9080278&postcount=1186) if you feel you need some sort of flight before 4th level.

6b-Melees deserve nice things. Casters deserve bad things. DR should be equal to half your HD (except for really tough monsters like the iron golem, and even then it should be 1/2 HD initially, equal to HD later). SR should be 11+HD, or 10+HD+Ability score for monsters that are really supposed to be anti-casters like the Rakasha.
If you feel the need for fullcasting on a monster, pare down the abilities. A lot. Generally, casting equal to the class levels minus one is the rule, but otherwise is certainly possible.

7-Make sure that most of the monster abilities scale with HD. DCs should always be 10+1/2 HD+stat (usually charisma or constitution) and the monster should gain more uses when it gains more HD. Yes, HD, not monster levels.

7a-Try to put in synergies with other classes, like the ogre mage's ability to gain extra caster level and higher level spells when it multiclasses. And again make several (but not all) of the abilities scale with HD and not necessarily monster class level (except for the strongest abilities).

Do not, however, use synergies with classes unavailable on the srd.

7b- Use At-Will SLAs very, very cautiously. Generally, the only times they should be used are if it is vital to the class, and not spammable.

7c-SLAs should sometimes auto-upgrade to stronger versions when the player reaches a certain HD. The prime example of this is Dispel Magic upgrading to Greater dispel magic at 11 HD, Summon monster X becoming X+1 every other level, or teleport becoming greater teleport. This should only be used for SLAs that become considerably weaker after a certain level. Dispel magic for example is capped at +10 CL so it stops growing after you reach 10 HD.

8-Compare with base classes. If it is as powerful as a rogue or barbarian or ranger, kick it up a notch: if it's as powerful as a druid, you've gone a little too far.
Generally, the dragons are a good balance point, while the tarrasque, anthropomorphic animal or ghaele are as powerful as you should get.

8a-Compare with other monsters here of the same type/role. Naztharune Rakshasa is the base "roguish" monster for example.

9-If a certain monster has several versions (like the different age categories of each dragon), then it's ok to combine them all on the same class, but abilities of each "stage" of the monster should be gained at the apropriate level/CR. For example, the dragon classes grow at the levels corresponding at the CRs the actual monsters. On the other hand, the dragons get their best SLAs earlier because they wouldn't be much usefull if only gained at epic levels.

10-Faster than linear progression/low quadratic. Each level should give more than the last one, even if just a little.

10a-Don't be afraid to make custom abilities if the original monster doesn't have enough to fill all levels (check out the giants, harpy, or iron golem as prime examples of this). Keep them creative, in theme for the monster and fun, not necessarily powerfull. One simple idea is to allow the monster to partially ignore immunity to his main combat tactic. Also, granting choices such as the iron golem's upgrades or the harpy's song is always nice.

10b-On the same vein, monsters with really powerfull abilities should receive custom penalties/reductions, that are reduced as the character grows. The ghost, being undead and ethereal must carry his body around. The vampire must drink blood to fuel his powers. The Medusa's gaze starts weak and then improves until it reaches full power.


Thread Guidelines (will be periodically updated):
0: Please, please, please use proper spelling & punctuation. It makes things easier on all of us. Thank you.:smallsmile:

http://img.kyon.pl/static/img/remiq.net_4224.jpg

Note: if I'm being a grammar nazi, please tell me, and I'll stop.:smalleek:

1: Post one class at a time: don't post a new monster while your first one is still being critiqued. This is a guideline, not a rule. If you have a monster you want to post and I'm being slow

2: Always question me. I'm fallible, and I'm a busy person. If I tell you to do something and you disagree with it, say so and why, and I'll listen to it without bias.

Beginners: for your 1st class, it's probably best to try something 3-8 levels long, with lots of balanced, flavorful abilities. Please don't cobble together a convoluted epic level class and expect me to critique it and revise it with much expediency.

Monster Class Building Rules & Helpful Tables & Stuff to quote:
Monsters that don't normally have spellcasting but are generally mystical and have SLAs- such as a succubus, or ogre mage, or other similar creature- should have the following multiclassing option:

A (Monster) who multiclasses into a (Arcane or Divine or Specific) spellcasting class can count his (Monster) levels as levels of that class for purposes of CL and for the purposes of learning new spells and geting new spell slots. So for example, a (Monster) (#) who took (#2) level(s) of (Spellcasting Class) could choose to have CL (#+#2), get (X spells per day/spells known/see Marraenoloth for an example). He wouldn't get the spell knowns and spell slots of a (Spellcasting Class #) however. He would get the (1st level ability(s), if any), but (Monster) levels wouldn't count for it.

Were-X building guidelines. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9790594&postcount=1221)


Growth modifiers

{table=head]Base Size|New Size| AC & Attack Bonuses*|Space*|Reach (Tall/Long)*|Ave. Size Incr.|Ave. Weight Incr.|Grapple Mod.|Hide Mod.
Fine|Diminutive|-4 (size)|+½’|+0’/+0’|+6”|+1/2 lb.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Diminutive|Tiny|-2 (size)|+1½’|+0’/+0’|+9”|+5 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Tiny|Small| -1 (size)|+2½’|+5’/+5’|+18”|+36 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Small|Medium| -1 (size)|+0’|+0’/+0’|+3’|+240 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Medium|Large|-1 (size)|+5’|+5’/+0’|+6’|+2000 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Large|Huge|-1 (size)|+5’|+5’/+5’|+12’|+8 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Huge|Gargantuan|-2 (size)|+5’|+5’/+5’|+24’|+80 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Gargantuan|Colossal|-4 (size)|+10’|+10’/+5’|+48’|+200 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
[/table]
Kudos to the formerly uncredited Zeta Kai for the table.
No you don't gain extra stats just for growing. It's not even listed on the table.
Your natural weapons damage increases one die size for each size increase though.

FAQ:

No ability penalties?
Nope. Generally.


Do I need to take all the levels or can I just take what I want and then go to other class?
Just like a normal class, you can leave a monster class at any level and then even come back later if you wish. You aren't allowed to mix different monster classes together, however, except for PrCs, though sometimes it's interesting to combine them (with DM consent, of course). For example, in a gestalt game, I've seen a succubus/erinyes.

What's this lose all racial bonus thingy?
Basicaly, these classes count as both initial race and class, so you can't be an human/ogre mage. You're just an ogre mage.


What's the Caster Level for the SLAs?
Unless otherwise specified, the Caster level for any SLAs is equal to your total HD.

Help! I'm taking a 1 or 2 level monster class and can't tell if it's BAB 1/2 or 3/4! (For the purposes of fractional BAB).
Unless otherwise noted, an undead has 1/2 BAB, while all other classes/templates have 3/4 BAB.



Link to 1st thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724)
Link to 2nd thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165439)
Link to 3rd thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170469)

[Gorgondantess]

Monster List
Kudos to Niezck for great formatting greatness.


A

Abishai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224087&postcount=41) - Gorgondantess
Aboleth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9367644&postcount=408) - by Oslecamo
Achaierai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8926591&postcount=946) - by Gorgondantess
Air elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8927531&postcount=952) - by AustontheGreat1
Allip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9468452&postcount=105) - by Temotei
Anaxim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355044&postcount=378) - by Draken
Androsphynx (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9241349&postcount=136) - by Oslecamo
Angel of Decay (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8589538&postcount=496) - by Draken
Annis Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8910218&postcount=915) - by Hyudra
Anthropomorphic Animal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9187907&postcount=1413) - by Oslecamo
Aranea (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8118735&postcount=220) - by Oslecamo
Arcadian Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9591118&postcount=594) - by Zemro Shivic
Arcanaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059851&postcount=1145) - by Frog Dragon
Arrow Demon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9520004&postcount=337) - by Cogidubnus
Astral Construct (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9477852&postcount=172) - by Sciencepanda
Astral Stalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355227&postcount=379) - by Fyrebyrd/Oslecamo
Awakened Monstrous Crab (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355321&postcount=380) - by Flabort
Awakened Skeleton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966879&postcount=55) - by Oslecamo

B

Balor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7967157&postcount=58) - by Oslecamo
Beguiler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8672814&postcount=637) - by AustontheGreat1
Beholder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8501338&postcount=416) - by AustontheGreat1
Blink Dog (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8325734&postcount=330) - by AustontheGreat1
Brain in a Jar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8674054&postcount=649) - by Draken
Bralani (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059764&postcount=1145) - by BelGareth
Bugbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9243419&postcount=143) - by Crafty Cultist

C

Centaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7987339&postcount=91) - by Oslecamo
Cheshire Cat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803718&postcount=1249) - by Geckoking
Cloud Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9569988&postcount=533)vby Hyudra
Coatl (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9237490&postcount=117)vby Kobold-Bard
Cornugon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9201680&postcount=1446) - by Gorgondantess

D

Daeva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9734048&postcount=1033) - by Gorgondantess
Death Drinker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236124&postcount=90) - by Oslecamo
Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405915&postcount=547) - by monkman
Djinni (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7960967&postcount=43) - by Oslecamo
Displacer Beast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9094837&postcount=1225) - by Hyudra
Doppelganger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8160461&postcount=258) - by Oslecamo
Dracotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9380867&postcount=454) - by monkman
Dragonne (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7956421&postcount=32) - by Oslecamo
Dream Larva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9504956&postcount=215) - by Magicyop
Drider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9630191&postcount=710) - by I_Am_An_Undead/Lix Lorn
Dryad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8131810&postcount=243) - by Bodez/Oslecamo
Duergar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9285918&postcount=275) - by Jallorn

E

Earth Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8946427&postcount=996) - by AustontheGreat1
Entomber (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8787260&postcount=750) - by Gorgondantess
Entropic Reaper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911700&postcount=920) - by Crafty_Cultist
Erinyes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8024351&postcount=144) - by Oslecamo
Ettin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471641&postcount=121) - by Temotei

F

Firbolg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8588088&postcount=490) - by Oslecamo
Fire Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234777&postcount=82) - by AustontheGreat1
Flind Gnoll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9258321&postcount=184) - by Gorgondantess
Force Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8983373&postcount=1020) - by Gorgondantess
Forest Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9466013&postcount=82) - by Volt
Fire Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8936547&postcount=968) - by Hyudra
Frost Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8591700&postcount=510) - by Hyudra

G

Gelatinous Cube (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9385418&postcount=467) - by Kobold-Bard
Ghaele Eladrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9212463&postcount=10) - by Oslecamo
Ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8112651&postcount=215) - by Oslecamo
Ghoul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8164244&postcount=269) - by CraftY_Cultist/Oslecamo
Githzerai/Githyanki (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9615407&postcount=659) - by Chumplump
Glass Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9550833&postcount=480) - by Cogidubnus
Gloom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017974&postcount=129) - by Oslecamo
Gnoll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8166791&postcount=274) - by Oslecamo
Goristro (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9463971&postcount=19) - by Monkman
Gray Jester (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7988336&postcount=92) - by Oslecamo
Green Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405322&postcount=539) - by ChumpLump
Grimlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966772&postcount=54) - by Oslecamo
Griffon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9074825&postcount=1170) - by AustontheGreat1
Gynosphynx (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8574795&postcount=460) - by Volt

H

Harpy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8895469&postcount=872) - by Hyudra
Hell Hound (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9094826&postcount=1224) - by Crafty Cultist
Hill Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8476867&postcount=360) - by Hyudra
Hound Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7987311&postcount=89) - by Oslecamo
Hook Horror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8940925&postcount=984) - by Frog Dragon
Hydra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9338086&postcount=357) - by Oslecamo

I

Imp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9047328&postcount=1087) - by Hyudra
Iron Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8982582&postcount=1018) - by Gorgodantess

J

Janni (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9242948&postcount=141) - by Kobold-Bard

K

Kaorti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8843416&postcount=809) - by Crafty Cultist
Kuo-Toa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9081372&postcount=1195) - by Hyudra
Kython (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9264340&postcount=217) - by Crafty_Cultist
Kython, Impaler and Slaymaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9273463&postcount=252) - by Crafty Cultist
Kython, Slaughterking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9281500&postcount=270) - by Crafty Cultist
Kyton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9392273&postcount=512) - by ChumpLump

L

Lantern Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9147212&postcount=1301) - by Volt
Leonal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059764&postcount=1145) - by BelGareth
Lillend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8097854&postcount=208) - by Oslecamo

M

Marilith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8132375&postcount=246) - by Oslecamo
Marrutact (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9029376&postcount=1044) - by Gorgodantess
Marraenoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9231506&postcount=69) - by Gorgondantess
Medusa and Choker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7948874&postcount=17) - by Oslecamo
Mimic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9464961&postcount=60) - by Sciencepanda
Mind Flayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7947714&postcount=13) - by Oslecamo
Minotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7947714&postcount=13) - by Oslecamo
Mephit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8678862&postcount=664) - by Hyudra
Mezzoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9015485&postcount=1034) - by Frog Dragon
Movanic Deva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9430145&postcount=596) - by Oslecamo
Mummy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7977252&postcount=82) - by Oslecamo
MurderJack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236908&postcount=102) - by FlickerDart/Oslecamo

N

Nashrou (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9525115&postcount=390) - by Makiru
Nerra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8492973&postcount=390) - by Draken
Nimblewright (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471896&postcount=123) - by Temotei
Nixie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8034400&postcount=162) - by Oslecamo
Nycaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9044409&postcount=1060) - by Frog Dragon
Nymph (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8167378&postcount=278) - by Bodez

O

Ogre Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951939&postcount=29) - by Oslecamo
Ogre (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8789542&postcount=758) - by Hyudra
Owlbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9367442&postcount=407) - by Kobold-Bard

P

Pegasus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9235441&postcount=86) - by FirebirdFlying
Phasm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8055617&postcount=172) - by Oslecamo
Phoelarch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9516820&postcount=326) - by AustontheGreat1
Phoenix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9633413&postcount=722) - by Oslecamo/AustontheGreat1
Pit fiend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7976670&postcount=80) - by Oslecamo
Pixie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8592607&postcount=512) - by Aranii
Planetouched (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9041408&postcount=1052) - by Gorgodantess
Pseudo-Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9229026&postcount=55) - by Kobold-Bard
Psionic Mindflayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9159107&postcount=1357) - by Gorgondantess

Q

R

Rakshasa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7956421&postcount=32) - by Oslecamo
Rakshasa, Naztharune (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9257676&postcount=178) - by Gorgondantess
Ravid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234635&postcount=81) - by Kobold-Bard
Red slaad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7957540&postcount=37) - by Oslecamo
Redcap (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8603621&postcount=534) - by Draken
Reptilians (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9080902&postcount=1191) - by Gorgondantess
Reth Dekala (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8881599&postcount=835) - by Gorgondantess
Roving Mauler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9477550&postcount=171) - by Makiru
Rukanyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9252804&postcount=161) - by Makiru
Rust Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9402966&postcount=534) - by Kobold-Bard

S

Sahuagin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9072388&postcount=1164) - by Crafty Cultist
Salamander (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234376&postcount=77) - by Oslecamo
ScorpionFolk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8885793&postcount=839) - by Frog Dragon
Sea Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405362&postcount=542) - by ChumpLump
Shadowperson (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9588719&postcount=590) - by AustontheGreat1
Shaedling (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9660218&postcount=805) - by Monkman/Gorgondantess
Silthilar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8913176&postcount=924) - by AustonTheGreat1
Slaad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8568028&postcount=445) - by Trenelus
Son/Daughter of Silence (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9219759&postcount=37) - by Oslecamo
Soulspark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9496930&postcount=209) - by Niezck
Succubus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951939&postcount=29) - by Oslecamo
Spell Weaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9262850&postcount=196) - by Winter King
Stone giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8589236&postcount=495) - by Hyudra
Sverfineblin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9479186&postcount=185) - by ChumpLump

T

Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9148817&postcount=1307) - by Oslecamo
Tengu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9197614&postcount=1434) - by Oslecamo
Thri-Kreen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017743&postcount=128) - by Oslecamo
Titan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9473369&postcount=145) - by Kobold Bard
Treant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9386283&postcount=485) - by Niezck
Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9211253&postcount=1) - by Oslecamo
Tsochar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9226721&postcount=48) - by Oslecamo

U

Ulitharid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9047316&postcount=1086) - by Oslecamo
Unicorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9235441&postcount=86) - by FirebirdFlying

V

Valkyrie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9771437&postcount=1154) - By Niezck
Vargouille (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966939&postcount=56) - by Oslecamo
Vasuthant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7974321&postcount=75) - by Oslecamo
Vrock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8940273&postcount=981) - by Gorgondantess

W

War Troll(prc) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405329&postcount=540) - by monkman
Water Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9465968&postcount=77) - by AustontheGreat1
Wight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9238635&postcount=127) - by Crafty Cultist
Wild Hunt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9399221&postcount=519) - by Oslecamo
Will-O-Wisp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9254674&postcount=170) - by Kobold-Bard
Winter Wolf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8890538&postcount=856) - by Frog Dragon
Wyvern (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9080278&postcount=1186) - by Hyudra

X

Xill (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8078928&postcount=203) - by ScionoftheVoid

Y

Yuan-ti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017736&postcount=127) - by Oslecamo

Z

Zelekhut(inevitable) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951028&postcount=26) - by Oslecamo
Zern (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8903096&postcount=899) - by AustontheGreat1

Therianthropes:

Wereconstrictor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump
Werecheetah (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Wereleopard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Werelion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Wererat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump
Werespider Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384) - by ChumpLump
Werespider Weaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384) - by ChumpLump
Weretiger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Wereviper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump

In Need of Overhaul:Werebear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8183188&postcount=306)
Werehydra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9240689&postcount=133)
Werelizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405424&postcount=544)
Wererhino (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9231073#post9231073)
Werewolf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8178217&postcount=297)


True Dragons:
Blue Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7941947&postcount=2) - by Oslecamo
Bronze Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9261499&postcount=189) - by Gorgondantess/Oslecamo
Fang dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9317804&postcount=320) - by unknown
Golden Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9260930&postcount=187) - by Oslecamo
Green Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9260954&postcount=188) - by un_known
Red Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165439&postcount=1) - by Oslecamo
Purple Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8927061&postcount=949) - by Oslecamo
Pyroclastic dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9264141&postcount=212) - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
Silver Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8002450&postcount=108) - by Oslecamo
Styx Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234476&postcount=79) - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
White Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9324083&postcount=355) - by un_known
Wing Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7962320&postcount=47) - by Oslecamo


Templates:

Evolved Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9511014&postcount=240) - by Gorgondantess
Feral Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9472386&postcount=132) - by Niezck
Gravetouched Ghoul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9567011&postcount=524) - by Hyudra
Half-Celestial (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8538254&postcount=434) - by Crafty_Cultist
Half-Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8159828&postcount=257) - by Oslecamo
Half-Fey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9538153&postcount=443) - by Kobold Bard
Half-Fiend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8535660&postcount=428) - by Crafty_Cultist
Half-Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9157221&postcount=1345) - by Oslecamo
Half-Illithid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8842357&postcount=807) - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911522&postcount=918) - by flabort
Horrid Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9520824&postcount=353) - by Hyudra
Lich (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8535643&postcount=427) - by Crafty_Cultist
Monster of Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9077277&postcount=1173) - by Hyudra
Saint (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9660268&postcount=810) - by Magicyop
Spellwarped creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911423&postcount=916) - by Frog Dragon/Oslecamo
Unholy Scion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9581603&postcount=559) - by Monkman
Vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8056982&postcount=173) - by Oslecamo
Winged Template (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9472231&postcount=125) - by Niezck



Monster Class Feats

Brains over Brawn:
Prerequisite: Natural armor based off of a certain ability score modifier.
You lose your natural armor: in return, you gain an insight bonus to AC equal to one mental stat's modifier of your choice. If any class ability would increase your natural armor in the future, it increases your insight bonus to AC instead.

Improved Monster Power:
Your HD (not class level) is considered one higher for the purposes of determining the abilities of one monster class of your choice.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. It can be stack up to 2 times per monster class, and can also be taken for multiple different monster classes.

[Gorgondantess]

The waiting list isn't perfect, but here it is. Note that requests will go on the waiting list much more efficiently if you PM me as opposed to posting here.:smallwink:
Waiting List:

Avoral (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9687627&postcount=914)
Battle Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471685&postcount=122)
Barghest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9635782&postcount=727)
Concordant Killer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9643634&postcount=750)
Metalmaster
Mohrg (MM)
Nightwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9772042&postcount=1159)
Protean Scourge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9897389&postcount=129)
Various Other Dragons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471317&postcount=120)
Various Monsters from FF (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9625566&postcount=698)

Requests from Gorgondantess (too busy to make 'em now, but if YOU make them, you get cookies!)
Joystealer
Splinterwaif
Verdant Prince


New Releases!:
Water Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9465968&postcount=77) Rounding off the last of the elementals with my personal favorite.
Shadowperson (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9588719&postcount=590) For all your stealth/intrigue needs!
Arcadian Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9591118&postcount=594) Making TWF decent since 2010.
Cheshire Cat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803718&postcount=1249)"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad."
Valkyrie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9771437&postcount=1154) - Sonic clappin' good.

[Magicyop]

Miscellaneous Lists (defunct)

Unfinished Monsters

{table=head]Monster|Endorsements|Suggestions|Original Post Date|Notes

Elder Treant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9472306&postcount=131)|||10/03/2010| Abandoned

Thunderbird (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9485316&postcount=196)|||10/05/2010| Abandoned

Malebranche (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9565333&postcount=516)|||10/16/2010| Abandoned Salvaged By Starsign

Dwarf Ancestor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9578763&postcount=539)|||10/18/2010| Abandoned

Black Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9808329&postcount=1297)| Kyuubi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9809771&postcount=1309) Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9821510&postcount=1365)||10/19/2010|

Lammasu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9584717&postcount=575)|| Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9615463&postcount=660) Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|10/19/2010|

Purple Worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9604492&postcount=638)|| Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9609552&postcount=653)|10/21/2010| Endorsed

Bleakborn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669)| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803844&postcount=1252) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9827099&postcount=1391)||10/23/2010|

Brass Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9665159&postcount=858)|| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|10/24/2010|

WereScorpion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9647117&postcount=760)|| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|10/27/2010|

Gargoyle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9647767&postcount=765)|| Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9660106&postcount=803) Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|10/27/2010|

Maug (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9725817&postcount=1014)|| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|10/29/2010|

Wereraptor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9663955&postcount=842)|| Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9764384&postcount=1134) Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|10/30/2010|

Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9725817&postcount=1014)| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9806700&postcount=1278)| Zemro Shivic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9804204&postcount=1255) Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9806714&postcount=1279) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|10/31/2010| Revised Class

Osyluth (Bone Devil) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9671027&postcount=872)|||10/31/2010| Abandoned

Illurien (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9694279&postcount=922)|| Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9720048&postcount=994)|11/04/2010|

Shade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9694700&postcount=924)|| Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9713667&postcount=963) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|11/04/2010|

Half-Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9725011&postcount=1010)| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) Rumel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9809420&postcount=1301)| ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|11/07/2010|

Warforged Charger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9729518&postcount=1020)| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) TheGeckoKing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9809286&postcount=1300) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)| Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9838846&postcount=1444)|11/07/2010|

Were-elephant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9741262&postcount=1056)|| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|11/11/2010|

Gerivar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9753452&postcount=1098)|||11/12/2010| Abandoned

Warforged Octopus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9758599&postcount=1111)|| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247)|11/13/2010|

Ragewalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9760188&postcount=1115)|| ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|11/14/2010|

Anarchic Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9761498&postcount=1123)|| Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9762788&postcount=1126) Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|11/14/2010|

Living Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9764043&postcount=1133)| Lix Lorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9804261&postcount=1256) mootoall (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9809285&postcount=1299) TheGeckoKing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9809286&postcount=1300) DythTheKobold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9812289&postcount=1330) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)||11/14/2010| Originally By ChumpLump Endorsed

Valkyrie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9771437&postcount=1154)| Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803643&postcount=1247) FishAreWet (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9821675&postcount=1374) ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9827099&postcount=1391) Lix Lorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9829197&postcount=1396) DythTheKobold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9830016&postcount=1402)| Gorgondantess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9841214&postcount=1450)|11/15/2010| Endorsed

Solamith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9773475&postcount=1173)| mootoall (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9820612&postcount=1360) Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9821510&postcount=1365)| ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9814110&postcount=1336)|11/16/2010|

Awakened Tyrannosaurus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9830213&postcount=1404)|||11/24/2010|

Shocker Lizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9845698&postcount=1455)|||11/27/2010|

Were-Shocker Lizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9845698&postcount=1455)|||11/27/2010|

Werespider (Weaver) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384)|||11/29/2010|

Werespider (Hunter) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384)|||11/29/2010|

Werebear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9867276&postcount=44)|||11/30/2010|

Animated Object (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9867627&postcount=50)|||11/30/2010|

Ultroloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9868328&postcount=53)|||11/30/2010|

Thorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9876046&postcount=87)|| Monkman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9876206&postcount=89)|12/1/2010|

Grell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9883082&postcount=95)|||12/2/2010|

[/table]

How To Use: The links are either a link to the endorsement, or to the suggestion. Just click it to find the post. If there is other information you'd like me to add to an entry, post or private message me.

What are you waiting for? Get out there and endorse/critique some monsters!

Dibs List
Hagumemnon(Protean): Magicyop
Nightwalker: Rumel
Half-Golem Revision: ChumpLump
Garngrath: Makiru
Gulthir Devil: Makiru

How To Use: Don't make a monster if someone has called it in this list. If you really want to make the monster and it seems someone has kept a tight grip on it for a while without doing anything, check with them first, and if they fail to say that they still intend to make the monster, it will be removed from the Dibs List.

Other Content
Therianthropy Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9790594&postcount=1221)
Multiple Natural Armor Bonuses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9860283&postcount=26)

How To Use: These are links to miscellaneous information that you may need to know when using or making Monster Classes. If necessary, more info will be added next to the links.

[Magicyop]

Featured Monster: Bleakborn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669)
Draining heat from the world to fill a bottomless pool of eternal chill.

This monster is unfinished, something it should not be! Whenever you have some time, take a look at whatever monster is currently featured, and give your thoughts on it. If you like it, help out this creature! Give it an endorsement! If you don't, say what you'd like changed. Let's work together and see the above monster on the finished list soon.

[Lix Lorn]

Great tentacley one=best nickname ever.

[Niezck]

New thread can has spell-checked and neatened monster list? I'll do it if you like, it always just annoys me how badly formatted it is :smalltongue:

Also, as I said in the previous thread, the Valkyrie has been updated with your suggestions oh great tentacley one.

@Magic: Way ahead of ya :smallwink:

[Crafty Cultist]

My Bleakborn class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669) Has been under finished for a while, so Could I get some feedback or endorsements about it please?

[Magicyop]

If it's alright with everyone, I'm going to add to the miscellaneous lists is a "Featured Unfinished Monster". Essentially, my pick of a monster which has been unfinished for far too long, and which has been lacking on critiques or endorsements. And what we'll do is all pitch together and try to get the featured monster ready to be added to the finished list. Does that sound okay with everyone?

[Gorgondantess]

New thread can has spell-checked and neatened monster list? I'll do it if you like, it always just annoys me how badly formatted it is :smalltongue:
I've tried neatening it up by dividing into a few categories- true dragons, lycanthropes, and now templates. I've also tried to standardize a few other things. Sadly, if I tried hitting it with a spellcheck, I'd get a mass of red squiggles- 90% of the monsters aren't in the dictionary. If you notice any glaring errors, do tell.


Also, as I said in the previous thread, the Valkyrie has been updated with your suggestions oh great tentacley one.
En maneuvers:
I'd like to make a standardized maneuver system, like we have the spellcasting multiclassing system. If you don't have a problem with the reth dekala's maneuver system, use it. If you do have a problem with it, then tell me and we can discuss it.


If it's alright with everyone, I'm going to add to the miscellaneous lists is a "Featured Unfinished Monster". Essentially, my pick of a monster which has been unfinished for far too long, and which has been lacking on critiques or endorsements. And what we'll do is all pitch together and try to get the featured monster ready to be added to the finished list. Does that sound okay with everyone?
The Great Tentacle-y One demands that you do just that.:smallcool:

[Crafty Cultist]

I've just noticed that Kaorti is in the template list for some reason. While kaorti are created by a transformation, they are still lose their racial traits, so the class is a regular monster class rather than a template.

[Gorgondantess]

I've just noticed that Kaorti is in the template list for some reason. While kaorti are created by a transformation, they are still lose their racial traits, so the class is a regular monster class rather than a template.

No idea what you're talking about.

Update the featured monster, by the way.

[Magicyop]

No idea what you're talking about.

Update the featured monster, by the way.

Hah! Excellent. See, the featured monster works!

Studies show that 100% of monsters which end up on the featured list are put up within 1 day. True story. For now. :smalltongue:

[Gorgondantess]

Hah! Excellent. See, the featured monster works!

Studies show that 100% of monsters which end up on the featured list are put up within 1 day. True story. For now. :smalltongue:

More precise studies show that 100% of monsters on the featured list are put up within 5 minutes!:smalltongue:

[Niezck]

Well I just fixed a few of the links (some were to thread pages, others to posts within the thread rather than seperately, etc. I've also standardized the "by X" system. Contributed by X is now "by X/Oslecamo" (or whoever updated it) and every person is stated, rather than it just being assumed it's the thread creator if not stated. Plus the odd spelling mistake has been fixed (along with the countless entries of "Gorgondantress" :smalltongue:)

Tell me what you think.


A

Abishai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224087&postcount=41) - Gorgondantess
Aboleth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9367644&postcount=408) - by Oslecamo
Achaierai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8926591&postcount=946) - by Gorgondantess
Air elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8927531&postcount=952) - by AustontheGreat1
Allip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9468452&postcount=105) - by Temotei
Anaxim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355044&postcount=378) - by Draken
Androsphynx (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9241349&postcount=136) - by Oslecamo
Angel of Decay (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8589538&postcount=496) - by Draken
Annis Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8910218&postcount=915) - by Hyudra
Anthropomorphic Animal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9187907&postcount=1413) - by Oslecamo
Aranea (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8118735&postcount=220) - by Oslecamo
Arcanaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059851&postcount=1145) - by Frog Dragon
Arrow Demon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9520004&postcount=337) - by Cogidubnus
Astral Construct (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9477852&postcount=172) - by Sciencepanda
Astral Stalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355227&postcount=379) - by Fyrebyrd/Oslecamo
Awakened Monstrous Crab (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355321&postcount=380) - by Flabort
Awakened Skeleton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966879&postcount=55) - by Oslecamo

B

Balor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7967157&postcount=58) - by Oslecamo
Beguiler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8672814&postcount=637) - by AustontheGreat1
Beholder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8501338&postcount=416) - by AustontheGreat1
Blink Dog (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8325734&postcount=330) - by AustontheGreat1
Brain in a Jar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8674054&postcount=649) - by Draken
Bralani (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059764&postcount=1145) - by BelGareth
Bugbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9243419&postcount=143) - by Crafty Cultist

C

Centaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7987339&postcount=91) - by Oslecamo
Cloud Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9569988&postcount=533)vby Hyudra
Coatl (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9237490&postcount=117)vby Kobold-Bard
Cornugon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9201680&postcount=1446) - by Gorgondantess

D

Daeva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9734048&postcount=1033) - by Gorgondantess
Death Drinker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236124&postcount=90) - by Oslecamo
Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405915&postcount=547) - by monkman
Djinni (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7960967&postcount=43) - by Oslecamo
Displacer Beast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9094837&postcount=1225) - by Hyudra
Doppelganger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8160461&postcount=258) - by Oslecamo
Dracotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9380867&postcount=454) - by monkman
Dragonne (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7956421&postcount=32) - by Oslecamo
Dream Larva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9504956&postcount=215) - by Magicyop
Drider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9630191&postcount=710) - by I_Am_An_Undead/Lix Lorn
Dryad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8131810&postcount=243) - by Bodez/Oslecamo
Duergar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9285918&postcount=275) - by Jallorn

E

Earth Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8946427&postcount=996) - by AustontheGreat1
Entomber (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8787260&postcount=750) - by Gorgondantess
Entropic Reaper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911700&postcount=920) - by Crafty_Cultist
Erinyes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8024351&postcount=144) - by Oslecamo
Ettin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471641&postcount=121) - by Temotei

F

Firbolg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8588088&postcount=490) - by Oslecamo
Fire Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234777&postcount=82) - by AustontheGreat1
Flind Gnoll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9258321&postcount=184) - by Gorgondantess
Force Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8983373&postcount=1020) - by Gorgondantess
Forest Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9466013&postcount=82) - by Volt
Fire Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8936547&postcount=968) - by Hyudra
Frost Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8591700&postcount=510) - by Hyudra

G

Gelatinous Cube (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9385418&postcount=467) - by Kobold-Bard
Ghaele Eladrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9212463&postcount=10) - by Oslecamo
Ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8112651&postcount=215) - by Oslecamo
Ghoul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8164244&postcount=269) - by CraftY_Cultist/Oslecamo
Githzerai/Githyanki (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9615407&postcount=659) - by Chumplump
Glass Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9550833&postcount=480) - by Cogidubnus
Gloom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017974&postcount=129) - by Oslecamo
Gnoll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8166791&postcount=274) - by Oslecamo
Goristro (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9463971&postcount=19) - by Monkman
Gray Jester (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7988336&postcount=92) - by Oslecamo
Green Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405322&postcount=539) - by ChumpLump
Grimlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966772&postcount=54) - by Oslecamo
Griffon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9074825&postcount=1170) - by AustontheGreat1
Gynosphynx (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8574795&postcount=460) - by Volt

H

Harpy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8895469&postcount=872)[/list] - by Hyudra
Hell Hound (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9094826&postcount=1224) - by Crafty Cultist
Hill Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8476867&postcount=360) - by Hyudra
Hound Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7987311&postcount=89) - by Oslecamo
Hook Horror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8940925&postcount=984) - by Frog Dragon
Hydra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9338086&postcount=357) - by Oslecamo

I

Imp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9047328&postcount=1087) - by Hyudra
Iron Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8982582&postcount=1018) - by Gorgodantess

J

Janni (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9242948&postcount=141) - by Kobold-Bard

K

Kaorti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8843416&postcount=809) - by Crafty Cultist
Kuo-Toa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9081372&postcount=1195) - by Hyudra
Kython (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9264340&postcount=217) - by Crafty_Cultist
Kython, Impaler and Slaymaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9273463&postcount=252) - by Crafty Cultist
Kython, Slaughterking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9281500&postcount=270) - by Crafty Cultist
Kyton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9392273&postcount=512) - by ChumpLump

L

Lantern Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9147212&postcount=1301) - by Volt
Leonal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059764&postcount=1145) - by BelGareth
Lillend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8097854&postcount=208) - by Oslecamo

M

Marilith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8132375&postcount=246) - by Oslecamo
Marrutact (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9029376&postcount=1044) - by Gorgodantess
Marraenoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9231506&postcount=69) - by Gorgondantess
Medusa and Choker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7948874&postcount=17) - by Oslecamo
Mimic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9464961&postcount=60) - by Sciencepanda
Mind Flayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7947714&postcount=13) - by Oslecamo
Minotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7947714&postcount=13) - by Oslecamo
Mephit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8678862&postcount=664) - by Hyudra
Mezzoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9015485&postcount=1034) - by Frog Dragon
Movanic Deva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9430145&postcount=596) - by Oslecamo
Mummy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7977252&postcount=82) - by Oslecamo
MurderJack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236908&postcount=102) - by FlickerDart/Oslecamo

N

Nashrou (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9525115&postcount=390) - by Makiru
Nerra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8492973&postcount=390) - by Draken
Nimblewright (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471896&postcount=123) - by Temotei
Nixie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8034400&postcount=162) - by Oslecamo
Nycaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9044409&postcount=1060) - by Frog Dragon
Nymph (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8167378&postcount=278) - by Bodez

O

Ogre Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951939&postcount=29) - by Oslecamo
Ogre (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8789542&postcount=758) - by Hyudra
Owlbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9367442&postcount=407) - by Kobold-Bard

P

Pegasus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9235441&postcount=86) - by FirebirdFlying
Phasm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8055617&postcount=172) - by Oslecamo
Phoelarch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9516820&postcount=326) - by AustontheGreat1
Phoenix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9633413&postcount=722) - by Oslecamo/AustontheGreat1
Pit fiend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7976670&postcount=80) - by Oslecamo
Pixie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8592607&postcount=512) - by Aranii
Planetouched (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9041408&postcount=1052) - by Gorgodantess
Pseudo-Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9229026&postcount=55) - by Kobold-Bard
Psionic Mindflayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9159107&postcount=1357) - by Gorgondantess

Q

R

Rakshasa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7956421&postcount=32) - by Oslecamo
Rakshasa, Naztharune (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9257676&postcount=178) - by Gorgondantess
Ravid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234635&postcount=81) - by Kobold-Bard
Red slaad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7957540&postcount=37) - by Oslecamo
Redcap (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8603621&postcount=534) - by Draken
Reptilians (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9080902&postcount=1191) - by Gorgondantess
Reth Dekala (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8881599&postcount=835) - by Gorgondantess
Roving Mauler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9477550&postcount=171) - by Makiru
Rukanyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9252804&postcount=161) - by Makiru
Rust Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9402966&postcount=534) - by Kobold-Bard

S

Sahuagin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9072388&postcount=1164) - by Crafty Cultist
Salamander (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234376&postcount=77) - by Oslecamo
ScorpionFolk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8885793&postcount=839) - by Frog Dragon
Sea Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405362&postcount=542) - by ChumpLump
Shaedling (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9660218&postcount=805) - by Monkman/Gorgondantess
Silthilar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8913176&postcount=924) - by AustonTheGreat1
Slaad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8568028&postcount=445) - by Trenelus
Son/Daughter of Silence (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9219759&postcount=37) - by Oslecamo
Soulspark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9496930&postcount=209) - by Niezck
Succubus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951939&postcount=29) - by Oslecamo
Spell Weaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9262850&postcount=196) - by Winter King
Stone giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8589236&postcount=495) - by Hyudra
Styx Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234476&postcount=79) - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
Sverfineblin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9479186&postcount=185) - by ChumpLump

T

Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9148817&postcount=1307) - by Oslecamo
Tengu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9197614&postcount=1434) - by Oslecamo
Thri-Kreen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017743&postcount=128) - by Oslecamo
Titan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9473369&postcount=145) - by Kobold Bard
Treant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9386283&postcount=485) - by Niezck
Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9211253&postcount=1) - by Oslecamo
Tsochar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9226721&postcount=48) - by Oslecamo

U

Ulitharid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9047316&postcount=1086) - by Oslecamo
Unicorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9235441&postcount=86) - by FirebirdFlying

V

Vargouille (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966939&postcount=56) - by Oslecamo
Vasuthant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7974321&postcount=75) - by Oslecamo
Vrock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8940273&postcount=981) - by Gorgondantess

W

War Troll(prc) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405329&postcount=540) - by monkman
Water Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9465968&postcount=77) - by AustontheGreat1
Wight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9238635&postcount=127) - by Crafty Cultist
Wild Hunt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9399221&postcount=519) - by Oslecamo
Will-O-Wisp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9254674&postcount=170) - by Kobold-Bard
Winter Wolf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8890538&postcount=856) - by Frog Dragon
Wyvern (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9080278&postcount=1186) - by Hyudra

X

Xill (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8078928&postcount=203) - by ScionoftheVoid

Y

Yuan-ti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017736&postcount=127) - by Oslecamo

Z

Zelekhut(inevitable) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951028&postcount=26) - by Oslecamo
Zern (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8903096&postcount=899) - by AustontheGreat1

Lycanthropes:
WereBear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8183188&postcount=306) - by Crafty_Cultist
WereHydra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9240689&postcount=133) - by flabort/Oslecamo
WereLizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405424&postcount=544) - by un_known
WereRhino & Werewhathaveyou (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9231073&postcount=68) - by ChumpLump
WereSnake and WereRat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump
WereSpider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384) - by ChumpLump
WereWeasel, WereShark and WereBas (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Werewolf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8178217&postcount=297) - by Crafty_Cultist

True Dragons:
Blue Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7941947&postcount=2) - by Oslecamo
Bronze Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9261499&postcount=189) - by Gorgondantess/Oslecamo
Fang dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9317804&postcount=320) - by unknown
Golden Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9260930&postcount=187) - by Oslecamo
Green Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9260954&postcount=188) - by un_known
Red Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165439&postcount=1) - by Oslecamo
Purple Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8927061&postcount=949) - by Oslecamo
Pyroclastic dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9264141&postcount=212) - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
Silver Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8002450&postcount=108) - by Oslecamo
White Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9324083&postcount=355) - by un_known
Wing Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7962320&postcount=47) - by Oslecamo


Templates:

Evolved Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9511014&postcount=240) - by Gorgondantess
Feral Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9472386&postcount=132) - by Niezck
Gravetouched Ghoul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9567011&postcount=524) - by Hyudra
Half-Celestial (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8538254&postcount=434) - by Crafty_Cultist
Half-Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8159828&postcount=257) - by Oslecamo
Half-Fey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9538153&postcount=443) - by Kobold Bard
Half-Fiend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8535660&postcount=428) - by Crafty_Cultist
Half-Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9157221&postcount=1345) - by Oslecamo
Half-Illithid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8842357&postcount=807) - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911522&postcount=918) - by flabort
Horrid Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9520824&postcount=353) - by Hyudra
Lich (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8535643&postcount=427) - by Crafty_Cultist
Monster of Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9077277&postcount=1173) - by Hyudra
Saint (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9660268&postcount=810) - by Magicyop
Spellwarped creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911423&postcount=916) - by Frog Dragon/Oslecamo
Unholy Scion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9581603&postcount=559) - by Monkman
Vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8056982&postcount=173) - by Oslecamo
Winged Template (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9472231&postcount=125) - by Niezck

[Gorgondantess]

...Wow. You did that fast.
I actually preferred to remove mine & Os's names entirely, but your way is cool too. The reason for this is simply I don't care if I get the credit, really.
Note that I also moved the templates to their own group, something I should've done a long time ago.

[Niezck]

Templates done.

Also, there were so many alphabetical mistakes in that it was hilarious. For a start, it went J L K M :smalltongue:

[AugustNights]

Werespider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384) has been Overhauled.

I would request that the following Therianthropes be edited on the list to match their new names.

Werespider (Hunter)
Werespider (Weaver)
Weretiger
Werelion
Wereleopard
Werecheetah
Wereviper
Weresnake

As well as removing the following until re-posted

Wereweasel
Wereshark

Featured Monster
I love this idea.


How often do you get told you're awesome? Not often enough, thinks Lix.I do what I can. Thanks.

Edit
Oooh and I love the more organization.

[Magicyop]

Templates done.

Also, there were so many alphabetical mistakes in that it was hilarious. For a start, it went J L K M :smalltongue:

Don't forget to put in the Shadowperson, which was just added to the list. :smalltongue:

Also, we have a new featured monster.

[Mystic Muse]

I like the new monster list. So much easier to navigate.

Hey Gorgon, I have a suggestion on the last thread. Put in somewhat big letters not to post there on the first post too, preferably at the top. One of the other threads was locked because somebody didn't see the very last post.

[TheGeckoKing]

Firstly, I'm gonna call dibs on the Ultroloth, because It's been on the list for ages, the Black Dragon and the T-Rex look done to me, the Cheshire Cat just need more endorsements and maybe The Grammah Hammah, and I was recently reminded on how cool Ultroloths look (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83087.jpg).

Also, I can't see anything wrong with the Arcadian Avenger, so I hereby endorse it.

[AustontheGreat1]

Okay...

Half Elemental

Water Spout changed to flowing form which grants bonuses to escape artists checks. Thats it for him.

Ragewalker

I removed the bit that I didn't like from Ragewalker. I'd really like to know what anyone thinks about the Capstone. It still needs a second level ability.

Shadowperson

The scaling bit removed from Telepathic Awareness.

Lastly, I like the Cheshire Cat and it only needs one more, so I Endorse it.

[Betropper]

Whoops, sorry for not posting for a while, a bunch of work and stuff.

I'm going to edit the Wereraptor sometime tonight.

[AugustNights]

Lastly, I like the Cheshire Cat and it only needs one more, so I Endorse it.

Mmm, Small thing...giving endorsements based on 'it only needs one more' is bad practice. If you like it an think it's perfect, that's a good reason to give an endorsement. I don't think you're giving this endorsement soley based on this 'need,' but your sentence reads as if its one of the reasons. It should not be.

[AustontheGreat1]

Mmm, Small thing...giving endorsements based on 'it only needs one more' is bad practice. If you like it an think it's perfect, that's a good reason to give an endorsement. I don't think you're giving this endorsement soley based on this 'need,' but your sentence reads as if its one of the reasons. It should not be.

Your right, I assure you it isn't the primary reason. I completely read the class before endorsing it and couldn't find anything I disagreed with.

[AugustNights]

Multiple Bonuses to Natural Armor

A lot of Creatures here could get some crazy high Bonuses to Natural Armor Through Templates. In my own system I have written up this solution to that problem, and I propose to add it to the project. If the project doesn't mind the crazy high Bonuses to Natural Armor, ignore this proposal

If a creature gains natural armor bonuses from multiple sources treat them as The following chart.

{table=Head]Base Natural Armor|Extra Natural Armor|Results
1/2 Con Mod|1/2 Con Mod|Full Con Mod as Natural armor Bonus

Anything higher than 1/2 Con Mod|1/2 Con Mod|+1 Nat. AC

Full Con Mod|Full Con Mod|1.5 Con Mod

Anything Higher than Full Con Mod|Full Con Mod|+2 Nat. AC

1.5 Con Mod|Anything higher than Full Con Mod|+3 Nat. AC[/table]
Creatures that gain Natural Armor from more than one monster class, that specify different Ability Scores as the base for their Natural Armor Class use whichever Ability Score is higher to derive both Natural Armor Classes, and Uses the Chart Above.

A Chumps Twopence:

Added in a MANAS caveat.
Edited Wording for Bonuses To Natural Armor

[mootoall]

Featured Monster: Arcadian Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9591118&postcount=594)
Uphold the power of Law, and defeat all those who try to upset the rightful balance.

This monster is unfinished, something it should not be! Whenever you have some time, take a look at whatever monster is currently featured, and give your thoughts on it. If you like it, help out its creature! Give it an endorsement! If you don't, say what you'd like changed. Let's work together and see the above monster on the finished list soon.

Body of Silver An Arcadian Avenger loses all other racial traits and becomes an outsider with the following characteristics:
•30ft Base land speed
•Darkvision 60ft
•Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons
•Additionally Avengers are proficient with any light or one-handed exotic weapon of their choice,
•Proficiency with light and medium armour, but not with shields
•Automatic Languages: Celestial and Common
•Natural Armour bonus equal to her Con mod
An Avenger has the Lawful subtype, and also recieves the extraplanar subtype while not on her native plane, The Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia.

Hokay, so, seems pretty normal, but leaves a bit open for cheese. Just struck me that you could dip this for proficiency in Gnomish Quickrazor and, as I'll point out later, free, scaling TWF. This makes an excellent dip for a factotum, as you get free TWF Gnomish Quickrazor Sneak Attack Iajutsu Focus of DOOOOOOOM. However, nothing really to complain about.

I think that, as incentive to keep taking the class, it does need stat bonuses.

Avenger's Armaments

An Avenger recieves Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat at first level. Avengers with six levels in their racial class are granted Improved Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat while those with both six levels in this class at as Base Attack Bonus of +11 or higher receive Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.

Additionally while wielding a slashing weapon in each hand she takes penalties for fighting with two weapons as though her off-hand weapon was light. She applies her full strength bonus to damage with her off-hand weapon rather then the normal one-half.

Beginning at third level any slashing weapon she wields is to be considered magic. Then at sixth they are considered aligned with an alignment matching her own.

Ah, this is how TWF should work, a single scaling feat. Unfortunately, a good amount of my games do work like that, and I find that's a fairly common fix. So, essentially, with games like that I'm getting ... a single bonus feat. Boooooring. Maybe give them a fancy weapon that they can choose? One that scales enchantments with HD? Starts Masterwork, becomes Axiomatic, Flaming, Colliding, Wounding, etc, with the player getting to choose and customize with thematic bonuses? Make it unenchantable except via HD advancing, and let it keep the TWF, so in one hand it gets its own special weapon, and in its other it gets a regular one?

Blade Rend
Starting at second level, an Arcadian Avenger who delivers a hit with both her main and offhand weapon can deliver a twist of her offhand weapon, dealing an additional 1d6+Str mod damage. This damage increases by 1d6 for each additional 3HD, reaching 7d6+Str mod damage at 20HD.

This may occur multiple times in the same attack round, but each iteration requires that she deliver a fresh hit with both her main weapon and her offhand weapon.


Blade Rend is fun. I like this.

Chosen Implement (Ex):
Upon reaching third level an Arcadian avenger chooses a single one-handed or light slashing weapon she is proficient with. While wielding this weapon in both your main and off hand you receive a shield bonus to your Armour Class equal to your HD/4 rounded down. If she has or later obtains the Two-Weapon Defence feat the shield bonus from this ability stacks with that received from the feat.

As she increases in power, her prowess with this chosen weapon increases. At 8HD the penalties for fighting with two of this weapon decreases to -1/-1, at 13HD the penalty disappears entirely.


Ah, this I like, getting rid of the stupid penalties with TWF. But give them a bonus for it anyway. At some level, make TWF as good as using a Two-Hander.

Arcadian Movement (Ex): Upon reaching fourth level an Arcadian Avenger's wings finally become strong enough to bear her aloft. She gains a flight speed equal to her base land speed with good maneuverability.
Flight is nice, but should it be the only thing it gains at this level? I mean, it's fine if it is, but maybe it should get another minor goodie.

Elude Chance (Su):
Beginning at fifth level an Arcadian Avenger can avoid the uncertainty of chance by tapping directly into the power of law and her home plane. As an immediate action up to HD/2 times per day an Avenger can treat the result of her next melee attack or saving throw as if the result of the die roll were 10.


Fun! But it'd be funner if it had an even better chance of hitting, via STR boni, etc.

Avenger's Wrath (Ex):
Avenger's of sixth level have learned to focus their rage and anger into a powerful force. Any time she scores a critical threat against any enemy threatening one of her allies, she automatically confirms it.

Additionally the Avenger gains the pounce ability, allowing her to make a full-attack at the end of a charge (or dive).


That's ... kinda underwhelming for a capstone. I mean, pounce is nice, but I can get it for a one level dip. And how often are you gonna be making crits? No, I think it should be more unique, unless my suggestion about a unique weapon gets the choice of the Keen enchantment.

[Gorgondantess]

Hokay, so, seems pretty normal, but leaves a bit open for cheese. Just struck me that you could dip this for proficiency in Gnomish Quickrazor and, as I'll point out later, free, scaling TWF. This makes an excellent dip for a factotum, as you get free TWF Gnomish Quickrazor Sneak Attack Iajutsu Focus of DOOOOOOOM. However, nothing really to complain about.
Actually, I advised the single exotic weapon choice. If using a quickrazor would be broken, well, even without that they could get it by spending one feat. Giving things you could just as easily get with a feat is almost never broken.


I think that, as incentive to keep taking the class, it does need stat bonuses.
I actually agree. They look nice.


Ah, this is how TWF should work, a single scaling feat. Unfortunately, a good amount of my games do work like that, and I find that's a fairly common fix. So, essentially, with games like that I'm getting ... a single bonus feat. Boooooring.
We don't work off of houserules here. If you're going to houserule TWF to be better, then you should houserule this ability to be better.



Firstly, I'm gonna call dibs on the Ultroloth, because It's been on the list for ages, the Black Dragon and the T-Rex look done to me, the Cheshire Cat just need more endorsements and maybe The Grammah Hammah, and I was recently reminded on how cool Ultroloths look (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83087.jpg).

Also, I can't see anything wrong with the Arcadian Avenger, so I hereby endorse it.
That's not how Ultroloths look.
http://www.ratcreve.com/site/images/planescape/ultroloth.jpg
That's how Ultroloths look. If Diterlizzi has done it, then it's the official image.

[Jallorn]

I must say, I recently built a were-character, and I came here to look at the classes, and was quite disappointed, enough to use the template instead. I recognize that a universal were-template would be difficult, but maybe one that goes by base animal HD or something? Dunno, just an idea.

Oh, specifically what I was disappointed about the current ones was that I had some difficulty figuring them out. They might be better than I thought, but I just don't get how some of the features work.

[Gorgondantess]

I must say, I recently built a were-character, and I came here to look at the classes, and was quite disappointed, enough to use the template instead. I recognize that a universal were-template would be difficult, but maybe one that goes by base animal HD or something? Dunno, just an idea.

Oh, specifically what I was disappointed about the current ones was that I had some difficulty figuring them out. They might be better than I thought, but I just don't get how some of the features work.

It's pretty much the only thing here that the base monster could be considered better than the monster class one, I'll admit. Here is more flavor and level efficiency than simplicity and buckets o' stat bonuses. Hell, I even prefer the base lycans. That's okay, though- the base lycans are pretty good. It's one of the reasons I'm taking a laissez-faire approach to the therianthropes- I want them to be good, but it's not the main focus, because frankly, we don't need lycan monster classes.
Anyways, if you have complaints, take them up with the chumpmaster.
Also, chump: you say you want the therians updated on the list. Could you make something I can copy/paste?

[mootoall]

Actually, I advised the single exotic weapon choice. If using a quickrazor would be broken, well, even without that they could get it by spending one feat. Giving things you could just as easily get with a feat is almost never broken.

Oh, it's not broken in and of itself, I'm just presenting the first thing that came to mind for me. I mean, you can just be a gnome factotum and be proficient with it for no feat cost. It's when combined with free, scaling TWF that it gets a bit ... iffy. But, again, this would be a great one level dip for a factotum.



We don't work off of houserules here. If you're going to houserule TWF to be better, then you should houserule this ability to be better.


Okay then, so then I think it's a very decent fix for TWF!

[TheGeckoKing]

That's not how Ultroloths look.
http://www.ratcreve.com/site/images/planescape/ultroloth.jpg
That's how Ultroloths look. If Diterlizzi has done it, then it's the official image.

My Ultroloth WILL NOT look like a daemonic middle finger clothed in (probably) unholy wrappings! :smallwink:

[hereyago]

Multiple Natural Armor Bonuses

A lot of Creatures here could get some crazy high Natural Armor Bonuses Through Templates. In my own system I have written up this solution to that problem, and I propose to add it to the project. If the project doesn't mind the crazy high Natural Armor Bonuses, ignore this proposal

If a creature gains natural armor bonuses from multiple sources treat them as The following chart.

{table=Head]Base Natural Armor|Extra Natural Armor|Results
1/2 Con Mod|1/2 Con Mod|Full Con Mod as Natural armor Bonus

Anything higher than 1/2 Con Mod|1/2 Con Mod|+1 Nat. AC

Full Con Mod|Full Con Mod|1.5 Con Mod

Anything Higher than Full Con Mod|Full Con Mod|+2 Nat. AC

1.5 Con Mod|Anything higher than Full Con Mod|+3 Nat. AC[/table]
Creatures that gain Natural Armor from more than one monster class, that specify different Ability Scores as the base for their Natural Armor Class use whichever Ability Score is higher to derive both Natural Armor Classes, and Uses the Chart Above.

A Chumps Twopence:

Added in a MANAS caveat.


Forgive me if I've missed something, but I thought that natural armor didn't stack? So if you get it from more than one source you only get the highest one, just like an armor bonus.
-----------
Found it:
Natural armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with armor bonuses) except other natural armor bonuses.

[Zemro]

Man, all the fun stuff happens while I'm at school... time to get down to some brass tacks then.


Body of Silver
[class excerpt redacted]

Hokay, so, seems pretty normal, but leaves a bit open for cheese. Just struck me that you could dip this for proficiency in Gnomish Quickrazor and, as I'll point out later, free, scaling TWF. This makes an excellent dip for a factotum, as you get free TWF Gnomish Quickrazor Sneak Attack Iajutsu Focus of DOOOOOOOM. However, nothing really to complain about.

Well, dipping a single level in the class only grants the base TWF feat, I tied the progression to class levels rather then HD so that one couldn't just grab the whole feat tree with a single level dip.


I think that, as incentive to keep taking the class, it does need stat bonuses.
I actually agree. They look nice.

Alrighty, what sort of ability progression would be suitable? +6 Str and +3 Dex is my initial inclination, but I'm definitely not sure how to gauge those so +4/+2 may be more reasonable (Though less even to distribute).

I'll toss something into the class now, and the scale it to what's appropriate after hearing more feedback.


Avenger's Armaments
[class excerpt redacted]

Ah, this is how TWF should work, a single scaling feat. Unfortunately, a good amount of my games do work like that, and I find that's a fairly common fix. So, essentially, with games like that I'm getting ... a single bonus feat. Boooooring. Maybe give them a fancy weapon that they can choose? One that scales enchantments with HD? Starts Masterwork, becomes Axiomatic, Flaming, Colliding, Wounding, etc, with the player getting to choose and customize with thematic bonuses? Make it unenchantable except via HD advancing, and let it keep the TWF, so in one hand it gets its own special weapon, and in its other it gets a regular one?

Basically what Gorgon said about houserules, though a fun benefit of the Lawful subtype is that their wielded weapons count as Lawful for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.


Blade Rend
[class excerpt redacted]

Blade Rend is fun. I like this.

Swoot, Blade Rend is one of my favourite parts of the race.


Chosen Implement (Ex):
[class excerpt redacted]

Ah, this I like, getting rid of the stupid penalties with TWF. But give them a bonus for it anyway. At some level, make TWF as good as using a Two-Hander.

Well, her offhand weapon does receive her full Str bonus to damage, and since she can wield two one-handed weapons she can Power Attack at 1:1 with both. So, with rend and double up on other bonuses, I think it's already quite comparable.


Arcadian Movement (Ex):
[class excerpt redacted]

Flight is nice, but should it be the only thing it gains at this level? I mean, it's fine if it is, but maybe it should get another minor goodie.

Well, I did have some ideas there... why don't I toss one in and see what you folks think.


Elude Chance (Su):
[class excerpt redacted]

Fun! But it'd be funner if it had an even better chance of hitting, via STR boni, etc.

Mmm, I'll keep that in mind if my latest adjustments don't work out. It's mainly a way to increase reliability, though, so maybe an option to burn two uses and turn a nat1 into a 10 if the class still seems to be missing something.


Avenger's Wrath (Ex):
[class excerpt redacted]

That's ... kinda underwhelming for a capstone. I mean, pounce is nice, but I can get it for a one level dip. And how often are you gonna be making crits? No, I think it should be more unique, unless my suggestion about a unique weapon gets the choice of the Keen enchantment.

Hrm, I'll admit it does seem a lot less fun to me then when I first changed it to the present. Maybe I'll tweak it a bit into something I'm a little more happy with. I've got two ideas, but one's a little complex so I'll go with something similar to what's there currently for now.

[AugustNights]

Forgive me if I've missed something, but I thought that natural armor didn't stack? So if you get it from more than one source you only get the highest one, just like an armor bonus.
-----------
Found it:

True, but when the project began it was pretty clear that the bonuses weren't "Natural Armor Bonuses" but "Bonuses To Natural Armor."
I suppose "They don't stack" is a simple enough answer, but many templates that have been converted offer Bonuses To Natural Armor before the conversion...



I must say, I recently built a were-character, and I came here to look at the classes, and was quite disappointed, enough to use the template instead. I recognize that a universal were-template would be difficult, but maybe one that goes by base animal HD or something? Dunno, just an idea.

Oh, specifically what I was disappointed about the current ones was that I had some difficulty figuring them out. They might be better than I thought, but I just don't get how some of the features work.

Base animal HD?
Honsetly that will breed a lot of really boring Therianthropes.
What couldn't you figure out about the current templates?
Keep in mind the Therians are currently being overhauled and the ones that are updated are noted below.

Wererat
Wereviper
Wereconstrictor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395)
Weretiger
Werelion
Wereleopard
Werecheetah (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44)
Werespider Weaver
Werespider Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384)


Great tentacley one

Overhauled Therianthropes
Wereconstrictor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395)By ChumpLump
Werecheetah (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44)By ChumpLump
Wereleopard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44)By ChumpLump
Werelion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44)By ChumpLump
Wererat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) By ChumpLump
Werespider Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384)By ChumpLump
Werespider Weaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384)By ChumpLump
Weretiger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44)By ChumpLump
Wereviper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) By ChumpLump

Old Therianthropes (In Need of Overhaul):
Werebear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8183188&postcount=306) By Crafty_Cultist
Werehydra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9240689&postcount=133) By Oslecamo, Contributed by flabort
Werelizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405424&postcount=544) By un_known
Wererhino (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9231073#post9231073) by ChumpLump
Werewolf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8178217&postcount=297) By Crafty_Cultist

[Crafty Cultist]

I didn't know the lycanthropes were undergoing an overhaul. if you can point me to the guidelines, I'd be happy to redo the werewolf and the werebear.

[Magicyop]

I didn't know the lycanthropes were undergoing an overhaul. if you can point me to the guidelines, I'd be happy to redo the werewolf and the werebear.

Check my miscellaneous lists. They're under "Other Content" as they have been for a while. If you're looking for something, I've probably catalogued it in one of my lists, if I haven't, let me know and I'll get it catalogued.

[Crafty Cultist]

I've been looking at the new rules for the revised Lycanthropes, and i think Iget the gist of it. I'd make the werewolf's trip and the werebear's grab into a seperate ability(with a slight boost added) and nerf the capstone slightly, since they are more powerful than what has become the norm.

I'm thinking of removing the increased "deaths door" for the werebear and converting the werewolfs alpha wolf ability into a charm monster ability that only works on wolf-like creatures. Thoughts?

[AugustNights]

I've been looking at the new rules for the revised Lycanthropes, and i think I get the gist of it. I'd make the werewolf's trip and the werebear's grab into a seperate ability(with a slight boost added) and nerf the capstone slightly, since they are more powerful than what has become the norm.

I'm thinking of removing the increased "deaths door" for the werebear and converting the werewolfs alpha wolf ability into a charm monster ability that only works on wolf-like creatures. Thoughts?

First: What do you think of the overhaul, the Lycans were your brain-child first.

Second: My Overhaul response to the Werewolf and the Werebear are as follows

Werewolf
Could use some general cleaning up of coding and language.
Special[b] code is broken.
A spoiled 'Alternate Form' would be nice.
Could add Intimidate, and Knowledge (Nature) Class Skills.
Wolf Empathy could mention magical beasts.
No Speed has been specified for the Action of Assuming Alternate Form.
Improved Trip shouldn't be part of Alternate form it feels like to me. Special attacks should have their own separate ability name, IMO.
Needs an Animal Form Specific Ability.
Otherwise pretty solid.

Werebear
Could add Intimidate and Knowledge (Nature) to class skills.
Bear empathy could mention magical beasts.
No Speed has been specified for the Action of Assuming Alternate Forms.
Claw damage in animal form is unclear, is it the same as the bite damage? If so, why is it different in Hybrid form?
For the Werebear's Bite attack in Large, the size increases from 1d6 to 2d6, as well as the claws going from 1d4 to 1d8, why not start them off at 1d8 and 16 respectively?
However... that might get crazy by the time it becomes colossal.
Needs an Animal Form Specific Ability.
Indomitable might function better as an immediate action, as that damage is rarely taken on the creature's own turn.
Stupid Question: Does the 1/4 Maximum Hp increase the Werebear's downward limit of Hp? I.E. 48 = still fighting until -12 hp?
Indomitable may function well as a Hybrid only ability...or at least giving more bonuses in Hybrid form.
Otherwise pretty solid.

Third: I liked Alpha wolf a lot.
Maybe keep the Summoning Howl, and Change it to Charm Wolves, I don't know, could be fun.

Deaths Door was interesting, probably a fine power for Bear form.

The Animal Only Powers can be a little more strong because incentive to be in animal form should balance the benefits of being in hybrid form.

Unrelated Note: A Chump's List

[B]Feedback would be awesome on the following:
Multiple Ability score Natural Armor Bonuses
Wererat
Wereviper
Wereconstrictor
Weretiger
Werelion
Wereleopard
Wherecheetah
Werespider Weaver
Werespider Hunter


To be Built (In Order):
Werehydra Overhaul
Half-Golem Revamp
Pluranthrope Base
Were...spidersawm...?
The Rest of the Overhaul of Therianthropes.

[Niezck]

Tentacley one - will you be using my formatting of the list, or would you prefer me to keep it up-to-date in a similar manner to Magicyop and the unfinished monsters list?

[Gorgondantess]

Alrighty, what sort of ability progression would be suitable? +6 Str and +3 Dex is my initial inclination, but I'm definitely not sure how to gauge those so +4/+2 may be more reasonable (Though less even to distribute).
Definitely the latter. Just do
1: no bonus
2: +1 str
3: +1 dex
4: +1 str
5: +1 str
6: +1 dex, +1 str

Or something along those lines.


Mmm, I'll keep that in mind if my latest adjustments don't work out. It's mainly a way to increase reliability, though, so maybe an option to burn two uses and turn a nat1 into a 10 if the class still seems to be missing something.
That would be fine.


Avenger's Wrath (Ex):
[class excerpt redacted]

That's ... kinda underwhelming for a capstone. I mean, pounce is nice, but I can get it for a one level dip. And how often are you gonna be making crits?
You'll be making crits very often, actually. More attacks means more crits.
But I do agree- it would be nice to have a bit more.

[Magicyop]

Animated Object is coming along quite nicely, though I may want to think up more upgrade abilities, we'll see what everyone thinks. There's just one problem: I'm missing a level 6 ability and I'm stumped as to what to put there. Most things that I can think of are specific to what type of object it is, and that goes under a different class feature.

So, I'd like to ask you all for suggestions. It needs to be some ability which any Animated Object could use, no matter what type of object it is. Thoughts? :smallsmile:

[Niezck]

Sooo, any update on the Valkyrie?

[Crafty Cultist]

Here is the remake of the werebear. Also, I'd like to go on record saying I fully support ChumpLump's use of my formula to create so many other lycanthropes and feel proud that my original two classes have been helpful to him in his works.

The Werebear
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab249/crafty-cultist/Werebear.jpg
Prerequisites
To become a werebear, the character must meet the following requirements

Race: Any medium or large humanoid or giant
Special:Must have been injured by the natural attack of another werebear and contracted lycanthropy

HD:d8
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Alternate form(bear), Bear empathy, Lunar body, Forager's nose
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Alternate form(hybrid), Lunar hide
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Bear hug, Growth, +1 wis
4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Curse of lycanthropy, Indomitable[/table]
Skills: 2+int mod. Class skills are handle animal, intimidate, knowledge(nature), listen, spot, survival and swim

Proficiencies: A werebear gains proficiency with their own natural wepons

Features:

Lunar body(ex): Werebears retain old racial modifiers and gain the shapechanger subtype. They gain low-light vision if they did not already possess it.

A werebear gains natural armor equal to its con bonus while in bear or hybrid form. While in humanoid form their natural armor is equal to half their constitution bonus.


Bear empathy: a werebear can communicate with bears and dire bears regardless of form and gains a +4 bonus on charisma based checks to influence them. The Werebear can also influence and communicate with bear-like magical beasts, but does not gain the +4 bonus.

Alternate Form: At first level, the Werebear gains a (Medium sized) Bear Alternate Form. While in Bear form, the Werebear cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of hands ,but gains the appropriate natural attacks that a Bear has. (2 Claw attacks dealing 1d6 damage each and a secondary bite attack that deals 1d8 points of damage) While in Bear form the Werebear's movement speeds are set to that of an Bear's(40ft).

Alternate form
The Werebear has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the Werebear's Humanoid or Giant form, as well as it's Hybrid or Animal Forms. While using alternate form the Werebear reverts to its Humanoid or Giant form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the Werebear:

* The Werebear retains the type and subtype of its Humanoid or Giant form. It gains the size of its Bear or Hybrid Form. (As Specified). If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the Werebear gains that subtype as well.
* The Werebear loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its Humanoid or Giant form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its Humanoid or Giant form not derived from non-monster class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
* The Werebear gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of Bear or Hybrid Form. (As Specified).
* The Werebear retains the special qualities of its Humanoid or Giant form. It does not gain any special qualities of its Bear or Hybrid Form. (Unless Specified Otherwise.)
* The Werebear retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its Bear or Hybrid Form.
* The Werebear gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form as specified. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its Humanoid or Giant form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas Unlike normal creatures with Alternate Forms the Werebear gains the hit points increase from any change to its Constitution.
* The Werebear retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
* Except as described elsewhere, the Werebear retains all other game statistics of its Humanoid or Giant form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
* The Werebear retains any spellcasting ability it had in its Humanoid or Giant form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components. Hybrid may speak and has humanoid enough hands if the Werebear's Humanoid or Giant form has hands.
* The Werebear is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its Bear or Hybrid Form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
* Any gear worn or carried by the Werebear that can’t be worn or carried in its Bear or Hybrid Form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the Werebear changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its Bear or Hybrid Form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

At second level, the Werebear can assume a (Medium sized) Hybrid form, between its bear form and its Humanoid Form. While in Hybrid form, the Werebear gains the natural attacks of bear form, as well as the same movement speeds, however the Werebear retains its abilities to manipulate objects, use weapons, and speak.


Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action.


A Werebear can assume its Alternate Form 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.


For every level in Werebear, or for every two in another class, the Werebear's Alternate Forms improve as shown below.

{table]Werebear level+1/2 other levels|Ability scores
1|+1 con
2|+1 str, +1 con
3|+1 str, +2 con
4|+2 str, +2 con
5|+2 str, +3 con
6|+3 str, +3 con
7|+3 str, +4 con
8|+4 str, +4 con
9|+4 str, +5 con
10|+5 str, +5 con
11|+5 str, +6 con
12|+6 str, +6 con[/table]

Forager's nose: While in alternate form, a Werebear gains the scent ability and a bonus to survival checks equal to half its HD. At second level, this ability works regardless of form.

Lunar hide: At second level, A Werebear Gains DR/silver equal to half its HD while in its alternate form.

Growth: At third level, a Werebear’s bear or Hybrid forms may be Medium or Large. The Werebear chooses its size each time it assumes one of its Alternate Forms.

When A Werebear changes size its natural attacks are re-sized for appropriate damage. For every size increase beyond Medium the Lycanthrope gains a +1 bonus to Natural Armor Class while in Alternate Form.

A Werebear of 12 HD or more may choose to become Huge by expending two normal transformations.

A Werebear of 16 HD or more may choose to become Gargantuan by expending two normal transformations.

A Werebear of 20 HD or more may choose to become Colossal by expending four normal transformations.

Bear Hug: While in its alternate form, a Werebear Gains the Improved grab ability, allowing it to grapple any creature it hits with a claw attack as a free action.

In addition, when the Werebear successfully pins a creature smaller than itself while in bear form, it can squeeze the creature, dealing 2d6 points of damage(plus double the Werebear's strength modifier), plus an additional 2d6 for each size category above medium the werebear is. In addition, any creature affected by this ability must make a fortitude saving throw(DC15 + 5 per consecutive round the creature is pinned) or begin to suffocate. A creature that does not have lungs is immune to the suffocation effect.

Curse of Lycanthropy: At fourth level the Werebear can transmit Lycanthropy to other creatures. If a Humanoid or Giant of medium or large size is hit by the Werebear’s natural attacks while it is in either Alternate form, the struck creature must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Werebear's HD+ Constitution modifier) or contract Lycanthropy. For more information on Lycanthropy, check the Lycanthrope entry in the monster manual.


Indomitable: A forth level werebear gains the ability to shrug off damage. 1/day for every 4HD they possess, the werebear can try to resist an attack. If the werebear succeeds a fortitude save(DC=damage dealt) then half of the damage of the attacks is ignored and the other half is converted into subdual damage. Using this ability is a immediate action.


They also gain diehard as a bonus feat, regardless of whether or not they meet the prerequisites or what form they are in. If the werebear already has this feat they may choose a different one. The werebear's dying threshold also increases by an amount equal to their HD. For example, a Werebear with 13HD would die at -23, while one with 7HD would die at -17.

The diehard feat works regardless of form, but the other abilities only function while the werebear is in its hybrid form.
Comments
Here is the more up to date version of the werebear. the changes are mostly minor things to fit in with the more recent Lycanthropes, and the Bear Hug ability(because squeezing the life out of your opponents is fun)

[Magicyop]

Sooo, any update on the Valkyrie?

If I may, you've asked a couple of times. I think you should wait and cease nagging for a while. It's been a reasonable bit since I heard anything about the Living Spell, but I figure nagging will only stress people out more.

[Gorgondantess]

Magicyop: In this whole thread, he's only asked once. You don't have to defend me: if I feel I'm being nagged, I can say it myself.
Anyways, I already gave a suggestion. If you updated in response to it, I need to be informed of that. If you didn't, then here it is below: I'll still need a response to it.


En maneuvers:
I'd like to make a standardized maneuver system, like we have the spellcasting multiclassing system. If you don't have a problem with the reth dekala's maneuver system, use it. If you do have a problem with it, then tell me and we can discuss it.

[Niezck]

If I may, you've asked a couple of times. I think you should wait and cease nagging for a while. It's been a reasonable bit since I heard anything about the Living Spell, but I figure nagging will only stress people out more.

Ah but every time I've asked it's becaue I've just updated it with the suggestions given. I only re-asked because I thought it may not have been noticed as I posted that it was updated at the end of the last thread.

EDIT: @^ I updated the maneuver progression to match the Reth Dekala. I added stances at 5th and 8th level as well as 2nd, since its meant to be a heavy initiator.

[Magicyop]

Magicyop: In this whole thread, he's only asked once. You don't have to defend me: if I feel I'm being nagged, I can say it myself.
Anyways, I already gave a suggestion. If you updated in response to it, I need to be informed of that. If you didn't, then here it is below: I'll still need a response to it.


Ah but every time I've asked it's becaue I've just updated it with the suggestions given. I only re-asked because I thought it may not have been noticed as I posted that it was updated at the end of the last thread.


In that case, I offer my apologies, for some reason I thought that you had asked a couple times in the last thread and then a couple more in this thread. I just looked back through and, obviously, I was mistaken. Sorry!

[Gorgondantess]

EDIT: @^ I updated the maneuver progression to match the Reth Dekala. I added stances at 5th and 8th level as well as 2nd, since its meant to be a heavy initiator.

Oh, that's fine. Nevertheless, it's still much more complex than the Reth Dekala: I can see it as a crusader, I can see it as a swordsage, and I can see it as a warblade. It shouldn't be limited on discipline access.


Living spell: Every spell. EVERY SPELL. If it doesn't normally specifically target an enemy creature, its ability must be explained. Period. Many, many of the spells have to be interpreted, and with something like this, there can be no room for interpretation. There needs to be a RAW for everything.

[Magicyop]

Animated Object
Base Monster Class
Monster Manual
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG13.jpg

Hit Dice: d10
{table=head]Level|BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+0|+2|+0|+0|Inanimate Body, Object Power
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+0|Tough Shell, +1 Str
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+1|Object Power, +1 Str
4th|+3|+4|+1|+1|Hidden Life, Object Power
5th|+3|+4|+1|+1|Object Power, +1 Str
6th|+4|+5|+2|+2|Never Alive, +1 Str
7th|+5|+5|+2|+2|Object Power
8th|+6/+1|+6|+2|+2|Distributed Consciousness, Object Power, +1 Str
9th|+6/+1|+6|+3|+3|Object Power, +1 Str
10th|+7/+2|+7|+3|+3|Magic Item
[/table]
Skills: 2 + Int modifier.

Proficiencies: An Animated Object is proficient with its natural slam attack, but otherwise gains no new proficiencies with weapons or armor.

Inanimate Body: The Animated Object loses all other racial modifiers and receives the Construct type, small size, 20 ft. movement speed, and a natural slam attack dealing 1d4 + Str modifier damage. It is capable of fine manipulation.

It has all the characteristics of the construct type:
No Constitution score.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, ability damage, fatigue or exhaustion, or energy drain.
Cannot heal damage on its own, although it can be healed.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
Never being alive to begin with, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. It can only be revived by a wish, limited wish, miracle.
Constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

The Animated Object may choose to be any mundane nonmagical item, worth no more than 100 GP per HD, and of a size no greater than the Animated Object is allowed to be. You may change size whenever you could change into a new object. Every time you level up, you may reselect what object you are.

The Animated Object may grow, but is not required to. It may be any size indicated that it may be on the following table, but no larger. It may only change size when it levels up.
1 HD: Small size
3 HD: Tiny size
5 HD: Medium size
9 HD: Large size
11 HD: Diminutive size
13 HD: Huge size
17 HD: Gargantuan size
19 HD: Fine size
21 HD: Colossal size
25 HD: Colossal+ size
27 HD: Fine- size


Object Power: Depending on what object it is, the Animated Object has various special abilities. At each level indicated, you may choose one of the following abilities, as long as you meet the prerequisites. If the type of object you are changes such that you no longer qualify for some of your abilities, you may reselect those in favor of those you now qualify for. At any time you may spend a feat slot to gain another ability.

Dwarven Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You are sturdily built, and able to overcome enemies through force. You gain the powerful build ability. You may not gain this ability more than once.

Elven Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You are elegantly built, and able to gracefully dance out of the way of blows. You gain the sleight build ability. You may not gain this ability more than once.

Halfling Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You gain a 10 ft. bonus to your movement speed and a +3 bonus on reflex saves. Further, you gain the effects of a permanent freedom of movement spell.

Orcish Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You gain a +3 bonus on fortitude saves. Further, you are immune to any effect which would attempt to move you against your will, such as telekinesis or bull rush.

Gnomish Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You are ridiculously complicated and able to achieve functions which no one would have believed possible. You may select up to three Object Power abilities which you do not normally qualify for, but only if the requirement you are bypassing is based on what type of object you are. This ability does not give you those abilities, it simply allows you to select them like you would select one which you qualify for.

Sturdy Construction
Requirements: Hardness.
Effect: You gain 2 additional Hardness, and an armor bonus to AC equal to ½ your HD. If your Hardness is increased to that of a different material, you may choose to take on the other properties of that material, though you may be constructed of only one material at a time.
Special: You may take this ability more than once, each time gaining 2 Hardness and +1 to your armor bonus.

Heavy Slam
Requirements: None
Effect: Your slam attack increases in damage by 1 step, and you may choose to either increase its critical range by 1, or its critical modifier by 1. Further, after the first application of this ability, your strength bonus to slam attacks changes to 1½ times your strength modifier.
Special: You may take this ability multiple times, each time increases the damage by 1 step and either the critical range or critical modifier by 1.

Strong Arm
Requirements: Must have multiple appendages which you do not use for movement, and must have more of such appendages than you currently do slam attacks.
Effect: You gain another slam attack with one of your appendages. For example, a candelabra with three candles could gain this ability twice, for a total of three slam attacks.
Special: You may gain this ability more than once, but no more times than you have appendages. You may never have more slam attacks than available appendages.

Grasper
Requirements: Must be an object which is in some way naturally flexible, such as a carpet, blanket, or rope.
Effect: You gain the Constrict ability, which allows you to deal damage equal to your slam damage plus 1½ times your Strength modifier on a successful grapple check. Furthermore, an object may grapple and make constriction attacks against multiple creatures at once, as long as they are all small enough that they can fit together in the Animated Object's space.

Mow Through
Requirements: Hardness 5, Str 14.
Effect: You gain the Trample ability, allowing you to attack enemies simply by moving through their space. They must be no larger than you, but you attack any enemies whose square you move through, dealing damage equal to your slam damage plus 1½ times your Strength modifier. Enemies who you would attack may choose either to make an attack of opportunity against you, or to make a reflex save (DC 10 + ½ HD + Strength Modifier) to avoid you.

Controlled Hovering
Requirements: Sheetlike object such as a blanket or sheet of paper, 6 HD
Effect: You are light enough that you may manipulate air currents to float through the air. However, you are effected doubly by wind conditions. You gain a fly speed equal to ¼ your base land speed with clumsy maneuverability.
Special: You may take this ability more than once, each time, your flight speed increases by ¼ of your land speed. So, two applications would make your flight speed ½ your land speed, six would make it 1½ times your land speed. Every two applications increases your maneuverability one step.

Ignite
Requirements: Must be an object able to be ignited, such as a candle or lantern.
Effect: All of your slam attacks gain bonus fire damage equal to your HD. Additionally, you cast bright light at a radius of 5 ft. per HD, and shadowy light at a range of 5 ft. per HD beyond that.
Special: You may take this ability more than once, each time, your bright light and shadowy light ranges both increase by 5 ft. per HD. The second application increases the fire damage to 1d4 fire damage per HD, the third to 1d6 fire damage per HD. After that, each application simply grants a stacking bonus to the fire damage of ½ your HD.

Sorcerous Light
Requirements: Ignite
Effect: You may change the hue of your light to any color you wish, additionally, anyone within the range of your bright light who is staring at you may, at your option, be subject to Hypnotism as a gaze attack. You may use this no more than once per round. You may effect up to 2d4 HD of creatures for each of your HD, and creatures may make a will save to avoid the fascination (DC 10 + ½ HD + Charisma Modifier). A successful save renders a creature immune for 24 hours.

Storage
Requirements: Must be an object capable of storing things inside of it, such as a backpack, basket, or chest.
Effect: The space inside you becomes extra-dimensional, and is capable of holding objects weighing no more than 25 pounds per HD, which take up a space no larger than 5 cubic feet per HD. These objects do not count towards your maximum carrying capacity, and you are in no way hindered by having them. Furthermore, you may count yourself as a Handy Haversack for the purposes of withdrawing items from yourself: The item you need will always end up shifted to the top.
Special: You may take this ability multiple times, each time increasing the maximum weight by 25 pounds per HD, and the maximum space by 5 cubic feet per HD.

Knockover
Requirements: Must be an object which is normally occupied by creatures, such as a chair or a bed.
Effect: On a successful Bull Rush attempt, you may knock someone over on or into you. (So they would end up sitting in a chair or lying in a bed.) Furthermore, you may make a pin attempt against anyone on or in your as a swift action. This is a grapple check with a +10 bonus. If you are successful, they are pinned and stuck inside your space, and you may maintain the pin with a successful grapple check as a free action each turn. You may only hold one creature immobilized in this way. If you move, the creature moves with you, as they are effectively trapped on you. You take no penalties for grappling unless the other creature beats your grapple check.

Looking Glass
Requirements: Must be an object which is normally used to enhance vision, such as a magnifying glass or spyglass.
Effect: You gain a bonus to spot checks equal to ½ your HD, as does anyone using you to look at things. Furthermore, you and anyone using you gains the benefits of some special effects. Every time you take this ability, you may choose one of the following effects. You may not choose an effect of a spell level higher than one below ½ your HD. All "Detect" abilities reveal all information instantaneously.
Detect Secret Doors
Detect [Alignment]
Detect Magic
Comprehend Languages (written)
See Invisibility
Detect Thoughts
Arcane Sight
Analyze Dweomer
True Seeing
Greater Arcane Sight
Special: You may gain this ability more than once. Each time, select a new ability that you qualify for, and the bonus on spot checks increases by ½ your HD.

Codex
Requirements: Must be an object capable of containing knowledge, such as a book.
Effect: You gain a bonus on knowledge checks equal to ½ your HD. Furthermore, you may alter the words on your pages at your whim. Finally, to a certain extent, you become a wizard's spellbook. You may select a single wizard spell of a level no higher than ¼ of your HD, and you gain this spell as a spell-like ability, usable at will. If it allows a save, the DC is 10 + ½ HD. You may choose this ability multiple times, each time the bonus on knowledge checks increases by half your HD, and you learn one new spell.

Religious Artifact
Requirements: Must be an object related to some religion, such as a holy symbol.
Effect: You may select two cleric spells of a level no higher than ¼ of your HD, and you gain these spells as spell-like abilities, usable at will. If it allows a save, the DC is 10 + ½ HD. If you choose an emanation, it is permanent rather than at will.

Crystalline Resonance
Requirements: Must be an object containing crystals of some sort.
Effect: You may select two psion powers of a level no higher than ¼ of your HD, and you gain these spells as psi-like abilities, usable at will. If they allow a save, the DC is 10 + ½ HD. Further, you gain 1 Power Point per HD.

Ancient Tactics
Requirements: Must be a weapon of some sort, or an object capable of containing knowledge
Effect: You may select two maneuvers of a level no higher than ¼ of your HD, and you gain these maneuvers, which you may use at will. If they allow a save, the DC is 10 + ½ HD. Further, you may select one stance of a level no greater than ½ your HD, and you are considered to perpetually be in this stance.

Soul Crafted
Requirements: Must be a memento or sentimental object, such as a portrait.
Effect: You may select two soulmelds which target a chakra that an incarnate of your HD could access, and you gain them as if they were permanently bound to those chakras. Further, you gain an essentia pool equal to your HD.

Choke
Requirements: Graspers
Effect: When you make a constrict attack, you may choose to gag the constricted target, banning them from all verbal actions. Furthermore, you may choose to begin choking them, in this case, they begin asphyxiating and remain so until they are able to remove you, or they die.

Spray
Requirements: Must be an object normally used to hold liquid, such as a vial or pot.
Effect: You may spew liquids inside of you out in a massive geyser, washing away those before you. You gain what is effectively a breath weapon. It has a range of 5 ft. per HD, and deals 1d4 damage per 2 HD. It also effects the target with whatever substance you are spraying them with. You must have a substance inside of you, and this breath weapon uses up 1 gallon per 2 HD when you use it. You may choose to use less of the substance, decreasing the number of gallons used by that spray, but counting you as 2 HD lower for every gallon removed, for the purposes of damage and range.

Substance Conjuration
Requirements: Spray.
Effect: You may conjure an infinite amount of a substance, as if you were a Decanter of Endless Water. You must have a bit of the substance placed inside you first, for you to attune to, and the substance can be worth no more than 5 GP per HD. From now on, you may conjure a seemingly infinite supply of that substance. You may change substances by attuning to a new substance, but you may only conjure one type of substance at a time.

Magic Cupboard
Requirements: Must be an object capable of storing things inside of it, such as a backpack, basket, or chest.
Effect: As a free action, you may use any prestidigitation effect on any object inside you. The effects of this prestidigitation are permanent. Furthermore, you may create, at will as a swift action, any nonmagical item worth no more than 10 GP per HD within yourself. You may only have one of these items at a time, if you create another, the previous one falls to dust.

Digger
Requirements: Must be a sharp object such as a shovel or mining pick.
Effect: You gain a climb speed equal to ½ your base land speed. You also gain a burrow speed equal to ½ your base land speed. You may burrow through solid rock (although you only burrow at half speed when going through solid rock) and any object with a hardness no greater than your HD. You leave a usable tunnel behind you.
Special: You may gain this ability more than once, each time increasing your speeds by ½ of your land speed, and increasing the maximum hardness you can burrow through by your HD.

Musical
Requirements: Must be an object capable of making noise, such as a bell or musical instrument.
Effect: You gain Bardic Music as a bard of your HD. You may choose to give up a number of your daily uses of Bardic Music equal to the level at which a Bardic Music effect is gained, to gain that Bardic Music effect at will.

Energy Lash
Requirements: Must be an object associated with any of the following elements: cold, fire, acid, lightning, sonic. For example, a horn could qualify with sonic, a lightning rod with lightning, or a torch with fire.
Effect: You gain a breath weapon dealing damage of the type you used to qualify for this. It deals 1d6 damage per HD, and when you gain this ability, you may choose to shape it as a line with a range of 15 ft. per HD, a cone with a range of 10 ft. per HD, or a sphere with a range of 5 ft. per HD. Enemies may evade this with a successful reflex save. After using this attack, you must wait 1d4 rounds to use it again. A second application of this ability increases the damage to 1d8 per HD and the range by 5 ft. per HD.

Slicer
Requirements: Must be sharp in some manner, such as a fork or pickaxe.
Effect: When you make a slam attack, you may choose between bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage. Further, you ignore one point of hardness on objects.

Mirror, Mirror
Requirements: Must have a reflective surface of some sort.
Effect: At will, you may create a scrying effect in your surface. Further, once per day, you may use this scrying to answer a question, as though through divination, such as "who is the fairest in the land". Your scrying effect will automatically target the event, place, or object which is closest to your request.

Seafaring
Requirements: Must either be made of wood, or directly related to water.
Effect: You are able to float across the sea, effectively granting you a swim speed equal to your land speed. If you take this ability again, your swim speed increases by your land speed.

Tradesman's Tools
Requirements: Must be a tool kit or a tool used for some sort of profession.
Effect: You may always take 10 on the skill associated with your tool. Further, you gain a +2 bonus on that skill. You may take this ability multiple times. Each time after the first, you gain a stacking +3 bonus on the skill.

Blinding
Requirements: Ignite.
Effect: Anyone within the range of your bright light must make a will save or be blinded.

Selection
Requirements: Must be an object normally used to hold clothing, such as a coatrack or a hatstand.
Effect: You may wear clothing of the type you are associated in, furthermore, you may benefit from a number of articles of clothing of that type equal to your charisma modifier.

Jaws
Requirements: Storage.
Effect: You gain a bite attack dealing 1d8 damage. It deals piercing damage, and you add your strength modifier to the damage.

Hungry Basket
Requirements: Storage, Jaws.
Effect: You gain the Swallow Whole ability. You may only hold creatures inside you if they could fit, as per the rules of Storage.

Improved Movement
Requirements: Must have legs or wheels.
Effect: Your base land speed improves to 40 ft. if you have legs, or 60 ft. if you have wheels.

Psychedelic
Requirements: Must have a reflective surface or transparent surface, such as a kaleidoscope.
Effect: You gain the ability to use any illusion spell as a spell-like ability once per day per HD. You may use any illusion spell you wish, as long as it has a level no greater than 1/2 your HD. A spell uses up a number of uses of this ability equal to its level. You may not choose any illusion spell which lets you mimic another spell.

Stabbity
Requirements: Must be reasonably sharp.
Effect: You gain the sneak attack ability. This deals an additional 1d6 per 3 HD damage on a successful sneak attack.

Soporific
Requirements: Must be normally related to sleeping, such as a pillow or bed.
Effect: You radiate a permanent sleep spell at a radius of 5 ft. per HD. The maximum HD of creatures effected is your HD plus your Charisma modifier. A creature actually touching you treats the spell as though it has permanent duration, leaving them asleep until something wakes them up.


Ability Increases: The Animated Object gains +1 to Str at levels 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 9, for a total of +6 Strength.

Tough Shell: The Animated Object gains hardness, even though it is alive. It has hardness equal to 1/2 its HD. (you may have a hardness greater than your HD by using Object Power, see above.) This stacks with any damage reduction you may have.

Hidden Life: An Animated Object may choose to suppress its life to fool others. You gain a +10 bonus on Disguise checks to appear as a normal object of the type that you are. Furthermore, when keeping yourself disguised in this manner, you do not move involuntarily and no magic will detect that you are actually alive.

Never Alive: At 6th level, you gain the power to avoid death. Since you were never alive to begin with, you cannot die. You may, once per day, upon your death, strain your will to live, at which point you will begin to repair yourself. You effectively gain fast healing 1 until you are repaired to full health, though you may take no actions while in this state. If a piece of you is separated, it will itself animate and try to work its way back to the main portion of your body. It has no intelligence and can easily be blocked, but it will move around corner and through corridors if it recognizes the most direct route if blocked. It moves at 1/2 your movement speed when you were alive. You do not gain Fast Healing until all your pieces are together.

Distributed Consciousness: At 8th level, once per day, you may choose to distribute your mind to a number of other object. You may distribute your mind to a number of objects equal to your charisma modifier. Each object may be an Animated Object of a level equal to ½ your HD. (If you have more than 20 HD, all of your objects are level 10 Animated Objects). Your original object body glows with obvious magic, but is left comatose while you puppeteer the other objects. You may animate the legion of objects for a maximum number of rounds equal to your HD plus your Charisma Modifier.

Magic Item: You realize your destiny: You are no ordinary object, you are a magical object, and your deeds will set the course of history. You gain an enhancement bonus equal to half your HD, which you may distribute between your 'armor' and your natural weapons. You may spend this enhancement bonus to gain other special qualities. If you have 21 or more HD, you may receive epic qualities. You gain 1 Hardness and 5 bonus HP for every point of enhancement bonus, just as a normal object would. (This applies only to actual enhancement bonuses, not to special qualities.) Before level 21, the actual enhancement bonus on your natural attacks or armor may not exceed +5, after that, it may not exceed +10. Further, you may spend your budget for animating yourself on a magical item, instead of a mundane item, if you wish.


Comments
Harder than it looks! The Animated Object monster is surprisingly vague on exactly how different animated objects perform. However, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. It gains its choice of abilities based on what type of object it is, and eventually becomes a magic item. Enjoy!

Changelog
None yet.

[Niezck]

Alrighty, I'll remove the discipline-specific stuff.

Also, just for reference's sake, what are these monster classes? Base? Prestige?

It's important for things like gestalt games that disallow taking two prestige classes at once etc.

[Gorgondantess]

Alrighty, I'll remove the discipline-specific stuff.

Also, just for reference's sake, what are these monster classes? Base? Prestige?

It's important for things like gestalt games that disallow taking two prestige classes at once etc.

...I...
I honestly don't really know.
I'm thinking monster classes that make you lose previous racial stuff are base, and monster classes that don't- monster classes with level-dependent prerequisites- are prestige.

[radmelon]

The animated object, but it is unclear on whether it changes physically to a new object on level up, or if it transfers it's essence to a new shell. Personally, I prefer the latter.

[monkman]

To celebrate my first endorsed monster.....

Ultroloth
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83087.jpg
HD: D8
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +1| +0| +0| +2| Yugoloth Body, Weapons of Ruin.
2| +2| +0| +0| +3| Daemonic Aura I
3| +3| +1| +1| +3| Basic Yugoloth Magic
4| +4| +1| +1| +4| Hypnotic Gaze
5| +5| +1| +1| +4| Daemonic Aura II
6| +6| +2| +2| +5| Intermediate Yugoloth Magic
7| +7| +2| +2| +5| Telepathy, Trickster General
8| +8| +2| +2| +6| Daemonic Aura III
9| +9| +3| +3| +6| Greater Yugoloth Magic
10|+10| +3| +3| +7| Immunities, All-Seeing Eyes
11|+11| +3| +3| +7| Daemonic Aura IIII
12|+12| +4| +4| +8| Greatest Yugoloth Magic
13|+13| +4| +4| +8| General's Mount
[/TABLE]
Abitity increase??
Skills: 6+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills are Climb, Craft (Any one), Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spellcraft, Ride, Spot, Spellcraft, Concentration, and Knowledge (Taken seperatly).

Proficiencies
The Ultroloth has proficiency in all simple and martial weapons, one exotic weapon of your choice (can't be changed after choosing), and light and medium armor.

Yugoloth Body: The Ultroloth loses all revious racial traits and gains Outsider traits (Basically Darkvison 60ft), with a land speed of 30ft and two claw attacks dealing 1d4 damage. Ultroloths can speak Common, Infernal and Abyssal.

Weapon of Ruin: All your natural attacks and any weapon you wield count as evil aligned for the sake of over-coming damage reduction.

Daemonic Aura I: As a born leader of the Yugoloths, you give off strength and power in a measurable aspect not unlike the mortal adventurers called Marshals. To activate your Daemonic Aura takes a swift action, and to dismiss it only requires a free action. You normally activate your Aura by intimidating, cajoling or enticing anyone in range to better serve your purposes. Your aura affects all sentient (3+ INT) allies within 40ft of your person, and is dismissed automatically if you cannot be heard for some reason (Silence spell, Dazed etc). At Level 2, you gain a simple aura - Any ally within range of your aura gains a +1 to attack rolls.
What type of bonus??

Basic Yugoloth Magic: Whenever you would gain an SLA from your Ultroloth levels, treat your HD as the spell's CL, and the DC as (10+CHA Mod+ 1/2 HD) when applicable. At Level 3, you gain Invisibility, Desecrate, Scorching Ray and Fear as SLA's useable once per day for every 2HD you have.

Hypnotic Gaze: As Hypnotic Pattern (the spell), only you add 4 to your CL instead of 2d4 to determine the total HD of creatures affected. At 18HD, your Hypnotic Gaze has no HD limit to how many creatures can be affected.
??What action?Is It a sla?(You just say what it does)
Daemonic Aura II: At Level 5, your aura's range increases to 60ft, and anyone within range of your aura gains +2 morale bonus to all Fortitude saves, and Fast Healing 1. At Level 11, this increases to Fast Healing 2.
Fast healing 1 is kinda bad, I would give it 1/4 or 1/3 of it's Hd for fast healing as well as the fortitude save .Also why exacly do they get a fortitude save?
Intermediate Yugoloth Magic: You gain Deeper Darkness, Ray of Enfeeblement and Alter Self as SLA's useable once per day for every 3HD you have.

Telepathy: You can communicate telepathically with any creature that has a language within 100ft.

Chatty General: You gain a +5 bonus to Bluff, Intimidate and Diplomacy.
Wouldnt these 2 abilityies be able to fit in 1??It would be a better one and also make the telepathy have a range of 20ft+10ft/hd
Daemonic Aura III: Anyone ally within your aura's range gains a +5 bonus to Intimidate checks, and DR 5/Silver. At Level 13, this increases to DR 10/Silver.
Dr should be 1/2Hd Also shouldnt you just get the intimidate check?(it dosent make sence for someone to get scairer just beacuse he's with you)
Greater Yugoloth Magic: You gain Gaseous Form, Enervation, Prying Eyes, and Scrying as SLA's useable once per day for every 4HD you have.

Immunities: You become immune to all poisons and all acids
Resitances equal to HD would be better

All-Seeing Eyes: You gain a permanent See Invisibility effect on your person. At 15HD, this becomes True Seeing.

Daemonic Aura IIII: Firstly, your Aura's range increases to 80ft. Secondly, anyone within your Aura's range gains the benefits of the Bear's Endurance, and See Invisibility spells.
It a tad powerfull, it practacly a permantent +4 enacement bonus(16000 gp) to all your allies(normally you dont really move far from your oppontents).
Greatest Yugoloth Magic: You gain Geas, Suggestion (Mass), Wall of Fire and Lesser Planar Binding as SLA's useable once per day for every 5HD you have. As long as you summon the creature within your Aura's range, you may treat your Aura as a Magic Circle for the sake of casting Lesser Planar Binding.

General's Mount: You aquire a personal mount from the the Gehenna Stables to ride into battle. You gain an animal companion from the Druid Animal Companion List, with your effective Druid Level equal to your HD-6, and the animal you choose must be Large sized or bigger, but it gains the Fiendish Creature template for free, and you gain a +10 untyped bonus to Ride checks.
It's nice but I dont know, it just dosent seem very interesting. Oh wow a large+ animal but animals arent that great especally at higher levels.


Comments:
As you can imagine, I was going for a Leadership role with the Ultroloth - They lead a bunch of greedy mercs into battle, so they're good at generally being leaders. They also have a bunch of SLA's and small effects so they can hold their own in combat. If I can be bothered later, I might make a Yugoloth General Prc that lets him convert his SLA's into Summon Monster spells, a bit like Druid's ability, and grants him bigger mounts and better Planar Binding spells and stuff.

Changes:
None so far, but i'm sure there's gonna be a few. There always is :smallannoyed:

This class is quite balanced and reminds me of a marshal, Maybe you should try to make a bit more like one.

[Magicyop]

The animated object, but it is unclear on whether it changes physically to a new object on level up, or if it transfers it's essence to a new shell. Personally, I prefer the latter.

Well, transfers its essence to a new shell, but it doesn't need to have the object at hand. I'll make that more clear, thank you. :smallsmile:

Any other thoughts?

Working currently on making all Living Spell anima combat related... even though I'll add that I don't really like doing it. D&D isn't all about combat and I don't feel every spell should be combat-related, but I'll bow to the superior expertise of those who have been doing monster classes a lot longer than me.

[Zemro]

Arcadian Avenger has been updated, and there were some other updates last night in case those were missed.

My alternate idea for Avenger's Wrath was being able to split you pounce attacks up between multiple targets along the route of your charge, and then a bonus if you nail them with Blade Rend while doing so (such as not provoking, or a bonus against, AoOs while moving away). Attacks would still be made in order, of course, I just found the wording a bit cumbersome.

I'll offer some comments on the Animated Object and Ultroloth later tonight.

[Gorgondantess]

Magicyop: No fluff restrictions. Nothing should change based on fluff. People shouldn't be forced to compromise fluff for mechanics, or vice versa.

Ultroloth:
I don't like it.
They may be rulers, yes, but they aren't generals. No Yugoloth is loyal to an Ultroloth. Or anybody. There's nothing inspirational about an Ultroloth. Only fear.


Habitat/Society: No lower-planar mercenary dares disobey an ultroloth for fear of cruel punishment. Even non-yugoloths in the Lower Planes steer clear of the ultroloths, fearing their powers.
Note that the ultroloth's actual power, though certainly respectable, does not greatly exceed some others of its kind. However, ultroloths maintain an air of mystery, so that few yugoloths of lesser power know their true abilities. Ultroloths also typically have enormous presence, shrewdness, and force of will, nonmagical qualities that often overshadow the most powerful enchantments.
Ultroloths are enigmatic, mysterious, and quite literally legendary, as all the knowledge about them is shrouded in myth. They're the bogeyman of the bogeymen- the things that the fiends tell stories about. 3rd edition botched it up and made them some 50's alien knockoff, with a big round head and big eyes. Ultroloths aren't scary because they're big and ugly with big teeth and flaming eyes- "The oldest and most powerful emotion of mankind is fear, and the most powerful fear is fear of the unknown". That's why they have the blank slate face.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRD2xA2mu2iJ7o52jSBnoL0JzpxIwevn llZeiZ81ivM0F_WIcvu
And the funny thing is they aren't all that powerful, at least on the supernatural front. They're just brilliant and a powerful presence and willing to do anything to get their way.

[Magicyop]

Magicyop: No fluff restrictions. Nothing should change based on fluff. People shouldn't be forced to compromise fluff for mechanics, or vice versa.


Wait, I don't understand, where am I putting a fluff restriction on something? What are you talking about?

[Gorgondantess]

[QUOTE=Magicyop;9867627]The Animated Object has a movement speed defined by what type of object it is.
Normal Object: 20 ft.
Object With 2 Legs: 30 ft.
Object With 4+ Legs: 40 ft.
Object With Wheels: 60 ft.

Strong Arm
Requirements: Must have multiple appendages which you do not use for movement, and must have more of such appendages than you currently do slam attacks.
Effect: You gain another slam attack with one of your appendages. For example, a candelabra with three candles could gain this ability twice, for a total of three slam attacks.
Special: You may gain this ability more than once, but no more times than you have appendages. You may never have more slam attacks than available appendages.

Grasper
Requirements: Must be an object which is in some way naturally flexible, such as a carpet, blanket, or rope.
Effect: You gain the Constrict ability, which allows you to deal damage equal to your slam damage plus 1½ times your Strength modifier on a successful grapple check. Furthermore, an object may grapple and make constriction attacks against multiple creatures at once, as long as they are all small enough that they can fit together in the Animated Object's space.

Controlled Hovering
Requirements: Sheetlike object such as a blanket or sheet of paper, 6 HD
Effect: You are light enough that you may manipulate air currents to float through the air. However, you are effected doubly by wind conditions. You gain a fly speed equal to ¼ your base land speed with clumsy maneuverability.
Special: You may take this ability more than once, each time, your flight speed increases by ¼ of your land speed. So, two applications would make your flight speed ½ your land speed, six would make it 1½ times your land speed. Every two applications increases your maneuverability one step.

Ignite
Requirements: Must be an object able to be ignited, such as a candle or lantern.
Effect: All of your slam attacks gain bonus fire damage equal to your HD. Additionally, you cast bright light at a radius of 5 ft. per HD, and shadowy light at a range of 5 ft. per HD beyond that.
Special: You may take this ability more than once, each time, your bright light and shadowy light ranges both increase by 5 ft. per HD. The second application increases the fire damage to 1d4 fire damage per HD, the third to 1d6 fire damage per HD. After that, each application simply grants a stacking bonus to the fire damage of ½ your HD.

Storage
Requirements: Must be an object capable of storing things inside of it, such as a backpack, basket, or chest.
Effect: The space inside you becomes extra-dimensional, and is capable of holding objects weighing no more than 25 pounds per HD, which take up a space no larger than 5 cubic feet per HD. These objects do not count towards your maximum carrying capacity, and you are in no way hindered by having them. Furthermore, you may count yourself as a Handy Haversack for the purposes of withdrawing items from yourself: The item you need will always end up shifted to the top.
Special: You may take this ability multiple times, each time increasing the maximum weight by 25 pounds per HD, and the maximum space by 5 cubic feet per HD.

Knockover
Requirements: Must be an object which is normally occupied by creatures, such as a chair or a bed.
Effect: On a successful Bull Rush attempt, you may knock someone over on or into you. (So they would end up sitting in a chair or lying in a bed.) Furthermore, you may make a pin attempt against anyone on or in your as a swift action. This is a grapple check with a +10 bonus. If you are successful, they are pinned and stuck inside your space, and you may maintain the pin with a successful grapple check as a free action each turn. You may only hold one creature immobilized in this way. If you move, the creature moves with you, as they are effectively trapped on you. You take no penalties for grappling unless the other creature beats your grapple check.

Looking Glass
Requirements: Must be an object which is normally used to enhance vision, such as a magnifying glass or spyglass.
Effect: You gain a bonus to spot checks equal to ½ your HD, as does anyone using you to look at things. Furthermore, you and anyone using you gains the benefits of some special effects. Every time you take this ability, you may choose one of the following effects. You may not choose an effect of a spell level higher than one below ½ your HD. All "Detect" abilities reveal all information instantaneously.
Detect Secret Doors
Detect [Alignment]
Detect Magic
Comprehend Languages (written)
See Invisibility
Detect Thoughts
Arcane Sight
Analyze Dweomer
True Seeing
Greater Arcane Sight
Special: You may gain this ability more than once. Each time, select a new ability that you qualify for, and the bonus on spot checks increases by ½ your HD.

Codex
Requirements: Must be an object capable of containing knowledge, such as a book.
Effect: You gain a bonus on knowledge checks equal to ½ your HD. Furthermore, you may alter the words on your pages at your whim. Finally, to a certain extent, you become a wizard's spellbook. You may select a single wizard spell of a level no higher than ¼ of your HD, and you gain this spell as a spell-like ability, usable at will. If it allows a save, the DC is 10 + ½ HD.

Spray
Requirements: Must be an object normally used to hold liquid, such as a vial or pot.
Effect: You may spew liquids inside of you out in a massive geyser, washing away those before you. You gain what is effectively a breath weapon. It has a range of 5 ft. per HD, and deals 1d4 damage per 2 HD. It also effects the target with whatever substance you are spraying them with. You must have a substance inside of you, and this breath weapon uses up 1 gallon per 2 HD when you use it. You may choose to use less of the substance, decreasing the number of gallons used by that spray, but counting you as 2 HD lower for every gallon removed, for the purposes of damage and range.

Magic Cupboard
Requirements: Must be an object capable of storing things inside of it, such as a backpack, basket, or chest.
Effect: As a free action, you may use any prestidigitation effect on any object inside you. The effects of this prestidigitation are permanent. Furthermore, you may create, at will as a swift action, any item worth no more than 10 GP per HD within yourself.

Digger
Requirements: Must be a sharp object such as a shovel or mining pick.
Effect: You gain a climb speed equal to ½ your base land speed. You also gain a burrow speed equal to ½ your base land speed. You may burrow through solid rock (although you only burrow at half speed when going through solid rock) and any object with a hardness no greater than your HD. You leave a usable tunnel behind you.
Special: You may gain this ability more than once, each time increasing your speeds by ½ of your land speed, and increasing the maximum hardness you can burrow through by your HD.

Musical
Requirements: Must be an object capable of making noise, such as a bell or musical instrument.
Effect: You gain Bardic Music as a bard of your HD. You may choose to give up a number of your daily uses of Bardic Music equal to the level at which a Bardic Music effect is gained, to gain that Bardic Music effect at will.
[quote]
All of these abilities have fluff restrictions. What this means is you're restricted in your fluff to take certain abilities. It's like saying you have to be a part of the holy order of mashed potatoes to enter PrC X, or have to be a gravy kobold to take feat Y, or anything like that. If you want to be a chair, you should be able to be a chair and still be able to take all of the abilities.
The move speeds is just wrong, as you're actually giving flat out bonuses/penalties based on fluff. That's like saying female kobolds get +2 to wisdom while male kobolds get -2 to wisdom, and that's the only difference between the two. If I want to play a book, I shouldn't be penalized for it. And I shouldn't get some huge bonus because I decided to play a cart.

[Magicyop]

All of these abilities have fluff restrictions. What this means is you're restricted in your fluff to take certain abilities. It's like saying you have to be a part of the holy order of mashed potatoes to enter PrC X, or have to be a gravy kobold to take feat Y, or anything like that. If you want to be a chair, you should be able to be a chair and still be able to take all of the abilities.
The move speeds is just wrong, as you're actually giving flat out bonuses/penalties based on fluff. That's like saying female kobolds get +2 to wisdom while male kobolds get -2 to wisdom, and that's the only difference between the two. If I want to play a book, I shouldn't be penalized for it. And I shouldn't get some huge bonus because I decided to play a cart.

What? That's the whole idea. That's how the original Animated Object works. It is changed based on what type of object it is. It doesn't make any sense for a book to be able to contain stuff, but a backpack without the ability to hold items? That doesn't make sense to me.

Objects are just so different, they need to have different abilities. It doesn't make any sense for a blanket to play music on itself or for a table to strangle someone.

I'm sorry, but this sort of thing is necessary to the class. I cannot give blanket abilities for any animated object. That just can't work to make a fun class. A book would have about the same abilities as a boat. I'm not penalizing anyone, I've tried to make sure that most common mundane objects have an ability or two specific only to them.

EDIT: I guess what I'm saying is that your choice of object is not just fluff. I've tried to make rules for choosing what object you are, and you gain abilities based on that. I'm not giving abilities based on, say, hair color, it's more akin to making abilities based on race. And there are tons of elf or dwarf based PrCs out there.

[Zemro]

I'm just finishing off a racial class for the Thorn (MM3) and I'd like to call dips on the Marrashi (MM2) for a future project, since I didn't seem to see it anywhere.

Until then, some commentary on the Animated Object:
I was going to comment on some sort of HP bonus, but it looks like having hardness takes care of that.
On movement speeds, they're not all equal choices, so there doesn't seem to be any reason why not to be something with wheels. Differences between various objects is fine, but they should at least be somewhat equal.
Sizes are neat, does having powerful build increase slam damage? Otherwise it seems most useful for Animated Objects with classes for weapon proficiencies.
Object Powers seem straight forward, giving a different class feel depending on your object type. I'll have to play around with it a bit and see if there's any object types the get better sorts of benefits. Some additional generic ones could be nice, I'm afraid I don't have too many ideas... maybe one to manipulate what sort of object you are?
Hidden Life and Never Alive are very neat, I like them. Though I wouldn't mind an option to delay the reanimation from Never Alive a bit, especially if I have to piece myself back together.
Distributed Consciousness, also very neat, though it's definitely something you'd have to take a bit of prep time before and between sessions to stat out the objects. Though since it depends on what sort of objects are around, that's difficult. Maybe make them identical and use the generic abilities?
Everything else seems straight forward, but I feel as though the class is missing something.

[Gorgondantess]

What? That's the whole idea. That's how the original Animated Object works. It is changed based on what type of object it is. It doesn't make any sense for a book to be able to contain stuff, but a backpack without the ability to hold items? That doesn't make sense to me.

Objects are just so different, they need to have different abilities. It doesn't make any sense for a blanket to play music on itself or for a table to strangle someone.

I'm sorry, but this sort of thing is necessary to the class. I cannot give blanket abilities for any animated object. That just can't work to make a fun class. A book would have about the same abilities as a boat. I'm not penalizing anyone, I've tried to make sure that most common mundane objects have an ability or two specific only to them.

EDIT: I guess what I'm saying is that your choice of object is not just fluff. I've tried to make rules for choosing what object you are, and you gain abilities based on that. I'm not giving abilities based on, say, hair color, it's more akin to making abilities based on race. And there are tons of elf or dwarf based PrCs out there.

The problem inherent with this is that people will end up sacrificing fluff for greater optimization. There's a pretty decent power discrepancy between all the abilities, especially for optimization's sake, and thus one who might want to make a book character might not because it's highly suboptimal. And why can't people get all these abilities? All it takes is a little imagination. A book with a secret extradimensional compartment, maybe- you peel back the paper on the inside of the cover or something along those lines.
I'm not going to say NO!, but I still don't like it. If anyone should sacrifice fluff, it should be we few- we merry few, we band of homebrewers
for he in this thread who makes a monster with me
shall be my brother; be he ne'er so uncreative,
this thread shall enlighten his condition;
and playgrounders in SMBG now a-playing
shall find themselves accurs'd they were not here
and hold their classes cheap while any here posts
that designed with us in Improved Monster Classes!
[/Shakespeare]
*ehehm*
Anyways, as I was saying- my refusal to the fluff requirements was a knee-jerk reaction. I wouldn't have done it myself. After all, our goal here is playability, the utmost playability, and things like fluff restrictions make classes less playable. As I've stated again and again with the paladin, if you're going to make fluff restrictions, A: you'd better make them strict & stringent, and B: you'd better make them damn worthwhile. Nobody wants to play a lackluster class with fluff restrictions.
A great homebrewer would make the animated objects class and find a way to bypass the fluff restrictions without degrading anything in the class. You're not be a great homebrewer: that's fine. In that case, I CAN leave it as it is.
But wouldn't it be great if you could prove me wrong?:smallbiggrin:

[Mystic Muse]

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to stop working On Illurien for a few days. I have a 3rd party 4E class that a player has been using, that needs redone, as it's currently too weak for the party it's in. Next session is a Boss battle, and possible end of the campaign so it needs redone before then. I also have to compare it to the power of other characters and do a playtest of the encounter so that I'm sure the players can actually win.

[AugustNights]

The problem inherent with this is that people will end up sacrificing fluff for greater optimization. There's a pretty decent power discrepancy between all the abilities, especially for optimization's sake, and thus one who might want to make a book character might not because it's highly suboptimal. And why can't people get all these abilities? All it takes is a little imagination. A book with a secret extradimensional compartment, maybe- you peel back the paper on the inside of the cover or something along those lines.


I find it more interesting if the fluff does govern the powers in this instance. However, I do agree that ANY object, should be awesome. So, rather than Uniform powers, I propose, more powers.
Find a Boring object? Figure out more powers.
That said, a rock is pretty much bound to be more boring than a living napkin dispenser. Even if they are mechanically the same.


Anyways, as I was saying- my refusal to the fluff requirements was a knee-jerk reaction. I wouldn't have done it myself. After all, our goal here is playability, the utmost playability, and things like fluff restrictions make classes less playable.
How so?
The original proposition was to to require the player to be certain objects, that way the powers made sense. This way, the play is much more free to be any item or object that they can think of.


As I've stated again and again with the paladin, if you're going to make fluff restrictions, A: you'd better make them strict & stringent, and B: you'd better make them damn worthwhile. Nobody wants to play a lackluster class with fluff restrictions.

I disagree on the first note.
Strict requirements will limit this class.
'Must be a rope, vine, or rug ' is much less fun for the player than 'Must be flexible like a a rope, vine, or rug.'
Worthwhile I do agree with.


You're not be a great homebrewer: that's fine. In that case, I CAN leave it as it is.But wouldn't it be great if you could prove me wrong?:smallbiggrin:

I see no need to qualify the level of proficiency of the project's individual home-brewers, only their creations. It is one thing to tell someone that their creation is not great, and why, and a completely other thing to tell someone that they them-self are not great.

Edit: Having given the Animated Object a quick look through, it looks like its going to want more Object abilities, but I have some ideas. I'll post those with my thoughts on it tomorrow, I think.

[radmelon]

[QUOTE=Magicyop;9869267]Well, transfers its essence to a new shell, but it doesn't need to have the object at hand. I'll make that more clear, thank you. :smallsmile:QUOTE]

Wait, what do you mean by that? :smallconfused:

<edit> Wow, I fail at quoting. :facepalm:

[TheGeckoKing]

Ultroloths are enigmatic, mysterious, and quite literally legendary, as all the knowledge about them is shrouded in myth. They're the bogeyman of the bogeymen- the things that the fiends tell stories about. 3rd edition botched it up and made them some 50's alien knockoff, with a big round head and big eyes. Ultroloths aren't scary because they're big and ugly with big teeth and flaming eyes- "The oldest and most powerful emotion of mankind is fear, and the most powerful fear is fear of the unknown". That's why they have the blank slate face.

Ok, fair enough. To be honest, i've only read the MM3 and a few passing fluffy bits on the web. However, I don't want to go the route of it being a sweet talker because I have the horrible feeling the class will end up depending on how much NPC contact they get, and how far they're allowed to bluff/be a diplomancer. And I LIKE the auras. I don't mind using a different shade of fluff, though.

Also, no-one's said anything on the crunch yet. Good? Bad? Any suggestions?

[Gorgondantess]

I find it more interesting if the fluff does govern the powers in this instance. However, I do agree that ANY object, should be awesome. So, rather than Uniform powers, I propose, more powers.
Find a Boring object? Figure out more powers.
That said, a rock is pretty much bound to be more boring than a living napkin dispenser. Even if they are mechanically the same.
No, no. You know that one power? The one that involves that one thing that the object you want to use doesn't qualify for? Yeah, that one. Murphy's law dictates that that power will be the most powerful one optimization wise.



How so?
The original proposition was to to require the player to be certain objects, that way the powers made sense. This way, the play is much more free to be any item or object that they can think of.
No, this way the player is less free to be ANY item or object they can think of because that one object is a mechanically unsound choice. I know what it's like to be a slave to optimization. This class is a slavedriver's whip, trust me.


I disagree on the first note.
Strict requirements will limit this class.
'Must be a rope, vine, or rug ' is much less fun for the player than 'Must be flexible like a a rope, vine, or rug.'
Worthwhile I do agree with.

That was more design philosophy than meant for this class. Strict requirements wouldn't work for this, I agree... and thus there should be no requirements.



I see no need to qualify the level of proficiency of the project's individual home-brewers, only their creations. It is one thing to tell someone that their creation is not great, and why, and a completely other thing to tell someone that they them-self are not great.
Um, so what if he's not a great homebrewer? I'm not a great homebrewer. Nobody on this thread is. There are probably 2 or 3 people on this forum who are "great homebrewers".
The point of that was, if he was really, really good, he could make it just as good without the fluff restrictions. I'm not even sure I could do that, though.


Ok, fair enough. To be honest, i've only read the MM3 and a few passing fluffy bits on the web. However, I don't want to go the route of it being a sweet talker because I have the horrible feeling the class will end up depending on how much NPC contact they get, and how far they're allowed to bluff/be a diplomancer. And I LIKE the auras. I don't mind using a different shade of fluff, though.

Also, no-one's said anything on the crunch yet. Good? Bad? Any suggestions?
Not sweet talker. Where the hell did you get sweet talker? They're just friggin' scary.
And I don't like the auras. For one, they're bland- nothing really unique- and for two, they don't fit the fluff. If you want a marshal-esque monster, you really shouldn't have done an ultroloth.

[TheGeckoKing]

Oh dear lord........WHY do I always end up doing scary but not very physically strong homebrew? First the Cheshire Cat, then the Slender Man vestige, now this........I shall try again with the auras, only i'll make then penalties for enemies.

[Magicyop]

No, no. You know that one power? The one that involves that one thing that the object you want to use doesn't qualify for? Yeah, that one. Murphy's law dictates that that power will be the most powerful one optimization wise.

Okay. Fair enough. I see what you are saying. Problem is, I'm not positive how to fix it, because I don't feel like doing away with all requirements is the answer here.



That was more design philosophy than meant for this class. Strict requirements wouldn't work for this, I agree... and thus there should be no requirements.

But then I feel I wouldn't be able to work in all the abilities that I should. Okay, book with a secret compartment. Mirror with a flute inside? Hollow blanket as a canteen? Glowing chairs? Backpack with runes inscribed on it?

There comes to a point where I feel like there has to be some kind of limit on what type of object you are, and what abilities you can get as that type of object.

Furthermore, in regard to the movement speeds, I'm not sure what the issue is, unless I do away with the fluff requirement. The improved movement speed based on the animated object monster in the first place. Can you really picture a living carriage being just as slow as a poor lonely little candle, hopping along on the ground using its one stumpy base?



Um, so what if he's not a great homebrewer? I'm not a great homebrewer. Nobody on this thread is. There are probably 2 or 3 people on this forum who are "great homebrewers".
The point of that was, if he was really, really good, he could make it just as good without the fluff restrictions. I'm not even sure I could do that, though.

I'm not even really going to comment on this, other than to say: Come on. You had to have realized that it would come across as insulting. Which it did.

[Betropper]

Wereraptor
http://images.elfwood.com/art/i/s/isabelle/darkclaw_cold_desert.jpg

Prerequisites:

Race: Any Medium or Small humanoid or giant.
Special: Must have been injured by the natural attack of another wereraptor and contracted lycanthropy

HD: d8
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+0|+0|+2|+0|Alternate form (Raptor), Raptor empathy, Lunar body, Raptor Traits, Graceful Leap
2nd|+1|+0|+3|+0|Alternate form (hybrid), Lunar hide
3rd|+2|+1|+3|+1|+1 Wis, Raptor teamwork, Shrink
4th|+3|+1|+4|+1|Curse of lycantropy, Swift blows[/table]


Skills: (4+Int modifier) Intimidate (Cha) Spot (Wis) Survival (Wis) Jump (Str) Listen (Wis) Hide (Dex) Handle Animal (Wis) Knowledge (Nature) (Int)

Proficiencies: A wereraptor gains proficiency with their own natural weapons.

Features:

Lunar body(ex): Wereraptors retain old racial modifiers and gain the shapechanger subtype. They gain low-light vision if they did not already possess it.
A wereraptor gains natural armor equal to its con bonus while in raptor or hybrid form. While in humanoid form their natural armor is equal to half their con bonus

Raptor empathy: A wereraptor can communicate with raptors (and other raptor-like magical beasts) regardless of form and gains a +4 bonus on charisma based checks to influence such animals, however he gains no bonus on influencing magical beasts.

Alternate Form(su):At first level, a wereraptor can take on a medium raptor form by using a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action. While in raptor form, a wereraptor cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of hands, but gains two talon attacks dealing 1d6+Str damage, moves at a speed of 60 ft and he gains a bite attack that does 1d8+Str damage.

A wereraptor can transform 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.

Unlike normal creatures with Alternate Forms the Wereraptor gains the hit points increase from any change to its Constitution.

For every level in wereraptor, or for every two in another class, the wereraptor's alternate form improves as shown below

{table=head]Wereraptor level +1/2 other levels|Ability Improvements
1|+1 Dex
2|+1 Dex +1 Str
3|+2 Dex, +1 Str
4|+2 Dex, +2 Str
5|+3 Dex, +2 Str
6|+3 Dex, +3 Str
7|+4 Dex, +3 Str
8|+4 Dex, +4 Str
9|+5 Dex, +4 Str
11|+5 Dex, +5 Str
11|+6 Dex, +5 Str
12|+6 Dex, +6 Str[/table]


At second level, a wereraptor can assume hybrid form by using a standard action. They can wield any weapons they could use in humanoid form and are able to speak. A wereraptor in alternate form gains a +4 bonus to jump checks.

Raptor Traits: A wereraptor in raptor form gains scent and gains a bonus on all hide skill checks equal to half his HD. This increases to a hide bounus equal to his full HD if the wereraptor makes a full-round action to hide. At second level his Raptor Traits ability works regardless of form.

Graceful Leap At first level, a Wereraptor in alternate form can easily jump over certain obsticals. He may charge over climbable objects 5 feet or smaller as long as the wereraptor spends the same amount of movement that he would use to climb it normally.

Lunar hide: At second level, a wereraptor gains DR/Silver equal to their HD/2 while in alternate form.

Shrink: At 3rd level, a wereraptor's raptor form can become Small or Medium. In addition their natural armor improves by 1 while in alternate form.

A wereraptor of 12 HD or more may choose to become Tiny by expending two normal transformations.

A wereraptor of 16 HD or more may choose to become Diminutive by expending three normal transformations.

A wereraptor of 20 HD or more may choose to become Fine by expending four normal transformations.

Raptor teamwork: Starting at third level a wereraptor learns how to more successfully work with others. He gains an extra +1 bonus to aid another rolls that he makes. This also applies to anyone attempting to use aid another on him. The wereraptor also gains a +3 bonus to attack rolls against an opponent he is flanking. This flanking bonus is also given to the other flankers flanking that opponent. These abilities are only useable in raptor form

Swift blows: At fourth level a wereraptor learns how to observe effectively and take advantage of weakness. He gains a +1 bonus to hit for every consecutive attack of the same type against the target. For example, if you delivered an attack in the previous round, you would gain a +1 attack bonus this round. if you struck the foe with an attack in the round after, it would go to +2 If you connected in the subsequent round, it would be +3, and so on. This caps at 1.5 times the HD of the wereraptor (ie. +6 max at 4HD). This ability is only useable in raptor form.

Curse of lycanthropy: At 4th level a wereraptor can transmit lycanthropy to other creatures. If a medium or large humanoid or giant is hit by their natural attacks while they are in alternate form, the creature must make a fortitude save (DC10+1/2HD+Con modifier) or contract lycanthropy. For more information on lycanthropy, check the lycanthrope entry in the monster manual.


Changelog:
Edited last skill to have two pathways.
Small grammar edits.
Made raptor form have abilities hybrid does not.
Added 6 more levels.
Balanced stomach damage and spells per day/maw of the titans by HD.
made con a more important stat.
Took ChumpLump's advice and balanced stats, saves, HD, and size.
Took more advice and edited last two skills, removed improved grab, and made a 6/6 perfection on stats.
made sneak attack need a jump, took out capstone and added a new one, and fixed size adjustments accordingly.
Edited size, claw damage, and sneak pounce skill to just flanked opponents.
Re-did last 2 skills.
Re did them again.
Buffed up animal form & changed last ability.
Made fixes according to ChumpLump's advice (too lazy to write down all now :P)


Comments:
Big. Freakin'. Dino. The simplicity of this class is amusing because it's very narrow, just Charge, Pounce, and tear at a nervous system.

Hmm? I think it work with the rules now.

[Lix Lorn]

Table says Swift Blows, text says Raptor Adaptability..?

[Betropper]

Table says Swift Blows, text says Raptor Adaptability..?

Thanks, fixed. :smallbiggrin:

[Lix Lorn]

Happy to help!

[Niezck]

Valkyrie has been updated, btw.

[monkman]

To celebrate my first endorsed monster.....

Ultroloth
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83087.jpg
HD: D8
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +1| +0| +0| +2| Yugoloth Body, Weapons of Ruin.
2| +2| +0| +0| +3| Daemonic Aura I
3| +3| +1| +1| +3| Basic Yugoloth Magic
4| +4| +1| +1| +4| Hypnotic Gaze
5| +5| +1| +1| +4| Daemonic Aura II
6| +6| +2| +2| +5| Intermediate Yugoloth Magic
7| +7| +2| +2| +5| Telepathy, Trickster General
8| +8| +2| +2| +6| Daemonic Aura III
9| +9| +3| +3| +6| Greater Yugoloth Magic
10|+10| +3| +3| +7| Immunities, All-Seeing Eyes
11|+11| +3| +3| +7| Daemonic Aura IIII
12|+12| +4| +4| +8| Greatest Yugoloth Magic
13|+13| +4| +4| +8| General's Mount
[/TABLE]
Abitity increase??
Skills: 6+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills are Climb, Craft (Any one), Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spellcraft, Ride, Spot, Spellcraft, Concentration, and Knowledge (Taken seperatly).

Proficiencies
The Ultroloth has proficiency in all simple and martial weapons, one exotic weapon of your choice (can't be changed after choosing), and light and medium armor.

Yugoloth Body: The Ultroloth loses all revious racial traits and gains Outsider traits (Basically Darkvison 60ft), with a land speed of 30ft and two claw attacks dealing 1d4 damage. Ultroloths can speak Common, Infernal and Abyssal.

Weapon of Ruin: All your natural attacks and any weapon you wield count as evil aligned for the sake of over-coming damage reduction.

Daemonic Aura I: As a born leader of the Yugoloths, you give off strength and power in a measurable aspect not unlike the mortal adventurers called Marshals. To activate your Daemonic Aura takes a swift action, and to dismiss it only requires a free action. You normally activate your Aura by intimidating, cajoling or enticing anyone in range to better serve your purposes. Your aura affects all sentient (3+ INT) allies within 40ft of your person, and is dismissed automatically if you cannot be heard for some reason (Silence spell, Dazed etc). At Level 2, you gain a simple aura - Any ally within range of your aura gains a +1 to attack rolls.
What type of bonus??

Basic Yugoloth Magic: Whenever you would gain an SLA from your Ultroloth levels, treat your HD as the spell's CL, and the DC as (10+CHA Mod+ 1/2 HD) when applicable. At Level 3, you gain Invisibility, Desecrate, Scorching Ray and Fear as SLA's useable once per day for every 2HD you have.

Hypnotic Gaze: As Hypnotic Pattern (the spell), only you add 4 to your CL instead of 2d4 to determine the total HD of creatures affected. At 18HD, your Hypnotic Gaze has no HD limit to how many creatures can be affected.
??What action?Is It a sla?(You just say what it does)
Daemonic Aura II: At Level 5, your aura's range increases to 60ft, and anyone within range of your aura gains +2 morale bonus to all Fortitude saves, and Fast Healing 1. At Level 11, this increases to Fast Healing 2.
Fast healing 1 is kinda bad, I would give it 1/4 or 1/3 of it's Hd for fast healing as well as the fortitude save .Also why exacly do they get a fortitude save?
Intermediate Yugoloth Magic: You gain Deeper Darkness, Ray of Enfeeblement and Alter Self as SLA's useable once per day for every 3HD you have.

Telepathy: You can communicate telepathically with any creature that has a language within 100ft.

Chatty General: You gain a +5 bonus to Bluff, Intimidate and Diplomacy.
Wouldnt these 2 abilityies be able to fit in 1??It would be a better one and also make the telepathy have a range of 20ft+10ft/hd
Daemonic Aura III: Anyone ally within your aura's range gains a +5 bonus to Intimidate checks, and DR 5/Silver. At Level 13, this increases to DR 10/Silver.
Dr should be 1/2Hd Also shouldnt you just get the intimidate check?(it dosent make sence for someone to get scairer just beacuse he's with you)
Greater Yugoloth Magic: You gain Gaseous Form, Enervation, Prying Eyes, and Scrying as SLA's useable once per day for every 4HD you have.

Immunities: You become immune to all poisons and all acids
Resitances equal to HD would be better

All-Seeing Eyes: You gain a permanent See Invisibility effect on your person. At 15HD, this becomes True Seeing.

Daemonic Aura IIII: Firstly, your Aura's range increases to 80ft. Secondly, anyone within your Aura's range gains the benefits of the Bear's Endurance, and See Invisibility spells.
It a tad powerfull, it practacly a permantent +4 enacement bonus(16000 gp) to all your allies(normally you dont really move far from your oppontents).
Greatest Yugoloth Magic: You gain Geas, Suggestion (Mass), Wall of Fire and Lesser Planar Binding as SLA's useable once per day for every 5HD you have. As long as you summon the creature within your Aura's range, you may treat your Aura as a Magic Circle for the sake of casting Lesser Planar Binding.

General's Mount: You aquire a personal mount from the the Gehenna Stables to ride into battle. You gain an animal companion from the Druid Animal Companion List, with your effective Druid Level equal to your HD-6, and the animal you choose must be Large sized or bigger, but it gains the Fiendish Creature template for free, and you gain a +10 untyped bonus to Ride checks.
It's nice but I dont know, it just dosent seem very interesting. Oh wow a large+ animal but animals arent that great especally at higher levels.


Comments:
As you can imagine, I was going for a Leadership role with the Ultroloth - They lead a bunch of greedy mercs into battle, so they're good at generally being leaders. They also have a bunch of SLA's and small effects so they can hold their own in combat. If I can be bothered later, I might make a Yugoloth General Prc that lets him convert his SLA's into Summon Monster spells, a bit like Druid's ability, and grants him bigger mounts and better Planar Binding spells and stuff.

Changes:
None so far, but i'm sure there's gonna be a few. There always is :smallannoyed:

This class is quite balanced and reminds me of a marshal, Maybe you should try to make a bit more like one.Listen to Gorgon
Gecko King, This is my review, you must of missed it.

[TheGeckoKing]

You are going to kill me Monkman, but you posted your (good) review just as I finished heavily editing the Ultroloth, and was about to say, so....um.... sorry :smallredface:. It's mostly the same abilities, just made into penalties for your opponents, so it's not too different.

[monkman]

You are going to kill me Monkman, but you posted your (good) review just as I finished heavily editing the Ultroloth, and was about to say, so....um....sorry :smallredface:. It's mostly the same abilities, just made into penalties for your opponents, so it's not too different.

No, Im not going to kill you.I'll just have to review the other version.

[TheGeckoKing]

Oh, that's good! The party cleric has a few diamonds, so I would of been OK anyway. And thanks for always reviewing anything I make.

[monkman]

Simple Daemonic Aura I (Su): As a born fearmonger, you give off energies in a measurable aspect not unlike the mortal adventurers called Marshals. The main difference is that your aura debilitates your enemies, rather than help anyone. You are far to greedy for that. To activate your Daemonic Aura takes a swift action, and to dismiss it only requires a free action. Your aura affects all sentient (3+ INT) enemies within 40ft of your person. At Level 2, you gain a simple aura - Any enemy within range of your aura gains a -1 morale penalty to attack rolls. While your aura is up, all non-allies automatically become Unfriendly towards you.
The 1 after the aura should be tooken out.


Damaging Daemonic Aura: At Level 5, your aura's range increases to 60ft, and any enemy within range of your aura gains -1 morale penalty to all Fortitude saves, and takes 2 points of damage for every round they spend in the aura's range. At Level 11, this increases to 5 points of damage.
Why would people get a -1 to fortitude,A wisdom or reflex would be better,Also a -1 penalty isnt that big, I would go more 1 penalty/3HD or 1 penalty/4HD for penalty.The damage would be either 1 point/3Hd or 1 point/4Hd


Aging Daemonic Aura: You gain a +5 bonus to Intimidate checks against ayone within your Aura, and your enemies gain physical penalties as if they were one age category older (they gain no mental bonus). Venerable and Immortal creatures are unaffected.
This ability is nice but really but the intimidate bonus should scale with hd(1/2HD)Also losing 1 dex,con and str(for most cases) wont really do much.maybe make it lose 1 point/5Hd.What happens when they leave and is there some way to resist it other than being venerable and immortal(saving throw?)?


Daemonic Fear Aura: Anyone with less HD than you and is within your aura's range that sees you make an attack or make a successful Intimidate check must make a Will Save (DC equal to your SLA's DC) or be panicked for one round. Anyone who fails their will save to avoid being panicked becomes immune to your aura's fear effect for 24 hours.
I think the code for this is
Save=10+1/2Hd + cha modifier
If less than half HD+fail=panicked
If less than half HD+succes=frightented
If more than half Hd+fail=Frightented
If more than half Hd+succes=nothing
You cannot effect anyone that has more HD than you.


Bonded in Service: By one way or another, you "aquire" a personal servant from Gehenna to serve your whims. You gain a Mezzoloth as a cohort that is always Friendly towards you, but cannot take the Leadership feat, or any other version of it (Like Undead Leadership). If your Mezzoloth servant would be slain, you may aquire another one by summoning it via a ritual that takes one hour and 500gp worth of reagents.
Capstone is nice but you dont say how you determin the level or Hd.
The rest of my comment still stand and for ability increase i would give it cha and maybe some dex or str.

[TheGeckoKing]

Thoes be good comments. Give me a moment, and i'll implement them.
Edit: Edits have been made, but you won't get a response from me until tomorrow. Until then, good night.

[Gorgondantess]

Okay. Fair enough. I see what you are saying. Problem is, I'm not positive how to fix it, because I don't feel like doing away with all requirements is the answer here.

But then I feel I wouldn't be able to work in all the abilities that I should. Okay, book with a secret compartment. Mirror with a flute inside? Hollow blanket as a canteen? Glowing chairs? Backpack with runes inscribed on it?
Just give out the abilities and don't say how it's done- the player can figure it out. And if they can't, no big deal. If you're going to say they have to sacrifice crunch for fluff, well, shouldn't they be able to sacrifice fluff for crunch?


There comes to a point where I feel like there has to be some kind of limit on what type of object you are, and what abilities you can get as that type of object.
That's fine. I've already said that's fine. It would be really cool if you could work around that- I would try myself, though I'm not sure I'd succeed- but if you can't, that's fine. Just make it so that it's not a problem, which will likely include at least tripling the amount of abilities you originally had. Or, take my above advice. Or, allow literal upgrades- it's an object, why can't the leg of the chair be drilled into a flute? Or the bed get a storage compartment on the bottom?


Furthermore, in regard to the movement speeds, I'm not sure what the issue is, unless I do away with the fluff requirement. The improved movement speed based on the animated object monster in the first place. Can you really picture a living carriage being just as slow as a poor lonely little candle, hopping along on the ground using its one stumpy base?
Regardless, it's flat out unfair. Can you really see a 4'10" tall elf lady be as strong as a 6'6" human? And yet, by the rules, it happens. Just give a movement speed increase upgrade choice and they can pretend it never happened- maybe give another free object power at 1st or 2nd level to balance it out?


I'm not even really going to comment on this, other than to say: Come on. You had to have realized that it would come across as insulting. Which it did.
You're also not a supra-genius. Are you insulted now?:smallsigh:
No, I didn't. I'm sorry if it did. Perhaps great wasn't a good word- more like... brilliant? Flawless? I was aiming to get you to try, but apparently that backfired. Anyways, no offense intended whatsoever.

[Gorgondantess]

Valkyrie: I don't really like how some abilities are stances/maneuvers and some are just... there. Duelist is good, storm rider is good, electrical weapons is... OK, but I feel like Lady of the Storm should be a stance as well. Thoughts?
Also, it shouldn't "lose this ability" under maneuvers. Initiating levels are initiating levels- just use the same text as the Reth Dekala. By the way, I'll be limiting it to 4 disciplines of choice on that one, as well- good call.
Maneuvers pile up too quickly- they're meant to progress logarithmically. Linear on a 4 level scale is OK- linear on a 9th level scale is not. I'd advise to cut the stances down to 2 and not get maneuvers on those levels. They already progress enough in power as is, anyways.
Also, can't believe I missed this before- 1st level needs something.

Living Spell: Don't forget it for the Living Spell. That's your 1st priority right now.

Cheshire Cat & Arcadian Avenger are added.

[Niezck]

Okay so I've knocked everything back a level until Growth, so it gets maneuvers at 1st now. I've removed the line about losing that ability and I've change lightning weaponry into a boost and lady of the storm into a stance. I also increased the power of lightning weaponry, since it's basically 1/encounter rather than permanent, so it's now 1d6/2HD.

[Gorgondantess]

Okay so I've knocked everything back a level until Growth, so it gets maneuvers at 1st now. I've removed the line about losing that ability and I've change lightning weaponry into a boost and lady of the storm into a stance. I also increased the power of lightning weaponry, since it's basically 1/encounter rather than permanent, so it's now 1d6/2HD.

Ehem.
"A valkyrie has an initiator level equal to its class level."
A valkyrie's abilities are significantly more powerful than a warblade or swordsage's.

Also, too many ability score bonuses- cut it down to either +8 or +6. Also, it still doesn't really get anything at level 1, as it gets no maneuvers and no stances that level.
Lightning gaze... might want to cut off the limited uses and change it to a simple "if the save is made, immune for 24 hours."
Looking good, though. We're getting there.

[Zemro]

Thorn (MMIII Pg 172)

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c372/Zemro-Shivic/Thorn.jpg

Class
Hit Die: d6

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Abilities|Ability Boosts

1st|+0|+0|+2|+2|Body of Thorns, Weapon of Thorns, Training or Talent|+1 Dex. +1 Wis or Cha
2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Protection of the Courts, Sneak Attack +1d6|+1 Dex
3rd|+2|+1|+3|+3|Slumbering Shots|+1 Dex. +1 Wis or Cha
4th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Piercing Strikes, Weapon of Barbs, Sneak Attack +2d6|+1 Dex[/table]

Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int Mod) x4
Skill Points at each additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nature, Nobility and Royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)

Proficiencies: Thorns are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longbow, longsword, rapier, shortbow, shortsword and whip. They are also proficient with light armour, bucklers and light shields

Body of Thorns: A Thorn loses all other racial characteristics and becomes a creature of the Fey type with the following traits:
Small Size
Base Land Speed 20ft
Low-light Vision
A natural armour bonus equal to their constitution modifier

Weapon of Thorns (Ex): Thorns are trained to use special weapons and ammunition, crafted with many barbs to create a very thorn-like appearance. While wielding such a weapon a Thorn adds his dexterity modifier as a bonus to damage and can freely deal either lethal or non-lethal damage. Additionally he may inflict slashing or piercing damage in place of a weapon's standard damage type. Creatures without this ability take a -2 penalty while wielding a Weapon of Thorns weapon due to the added difficulty and gain no benefits from doing so.

When without a thorned weapon and within a natural environment a Thorn may use some small power granted by the faerie courts to transform a weapon into a thorned one, or grow thorns from their skin (should they possess a natural armour score) or whatever they strike with for unarmed attacks. This process takes five minutes per individual weapon, or for a batch of 50 ammunition pieces. This only transforms the weapon's appearance, it still benefits from any properties of the material used in its original construction or those imbued with magical enchantments. This process is a supernatural ability and lasts as long as the weapon is in the Thorn's possession, and for up to one minute after it leaves.

Training or Talent: Upon taking the first level of the Thorn monster class, the Thorn chooses whether his powers come from the natural and wild talents of the Fey or focused training and discipline in their arts. Those that choose talent use Charisma to govern the effects of their special abilities, while Wisdom is used for those choosing Training.

Ability Boosts: Starting at first level Thorns gain a +1 bonus to dexterity for every class level gained for a total of +4 Dexterity at fourth level. Additionally the Thorn gains a +1 bonus to the ability score he chose as part of his Training or Talent ability (Wisdom or Charisma) at every odd level, giving a total of +2 to that score.

Protection of the Courts (Ex): Through training and devotion to their courts, Thorns of second level realize a new potential in their blood. They gain DR/cold iron equal to half their HD.

Sneak Attack (Ex): Like rogues, Thorns naturally excel at combat when they can catch their foes off-guard or otherwise unable to defend themselves properly. At second level they gain Sneak Attack as per the Rogue ability, dealing an extra 1d6 points of damage when they meet the requirements. At fourth level their sneak attack bonus dice improves to 2d6. This stacks with any other sources of sneak attack damage, such as from levels in the rogue class.

If the Thorn later gains any level in a class that grants a skirmish or sudden strike progression, it can choose to lose the sneak attack granted by this racial class and instead stack its level in Thorn with the levels in that class to determine the ability's effectiveness. So a Thorn 4/Scout 8 could lose the 2d6 sneak attack, and determine his skirmish damage as though he was a 12th level scout.

When dealing non-lethal damage with his Weapon of Thorns ability any sneak attack, skirmish or sudden strike damage is also dealt as non-lethal damage.

Slumbering Shots (Su): Drawing from the power of their lineage, third level Thorns and higher can form and fire arrow-like thorn projectiles imbued with the power of slumber. Treat this as a standard action ranged attack that requires a free hand, and deals 1d6 points of piercing or slashing damage with a range increment of 5ft per HD. Thorns with iterative attacks can make multiple shots in a round, but must take a full-round action to do so. A Thorn can make up to 2*HD shots per day, but no more than HD/3 (minimum 1) shots per round.

Alternately, a thorn can use a slumbering shot in place of a ranged weapon's standard ammunition, taking the form of an arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet. When done as such use the weapon's damage and range increment instead, but the projectile still does slashing or piercing damage (unless fired from a sling, then it may choose to do bludgeoning damage instead). As with standard ammunition, the projectile benefits from the weapon's enchantments.

Any creature damaged by one of this arrows must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC of 10 + ½ HD + Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns) or be affected as though by a sleep spell (CL=HD), regardless of HD. Even on a successful save the creature must continue to make an additional save each round the projectile remains lodged from the Thorn's Piercing Strikes ability (see below).

The slumbering shots of a Thorn of at least 10HD can affect creatures normally immune to their sleep effect, though instead of falling asleep on a failed save the magic induces a slow effect as per the spell (CL=HD). However at the end of their turn the creature is entitled to another save, a success suppressing the slow effect one round. The creature continues to make saves until it accumulates a number of successes equal to the number arrows stuck in it from the Piercing Strikes ability.

Piercing Strikes (Ex): Thorns of fourth level gain additional benefits in combat depending on the type of weapon they are wielding.

Melee: The spikes and thorns on melee weapons allow the Thorn to bypass defences and deal damage to some of the more protected targets. Successful melee attacks made by the thorn treat their damage done as 50% higher for the purposes of concentration checks made by their targets as a result of the attack. Against creatures normally immune to precision damage, the thorn instead deals half damage with any such attacks (such as sneak attack), if he gain this ability from another source, he can deal full damage to those creatures.

Ranged: The barbs on thorned thrown weapons and pieces of ammunition cause them to get stuck in the wounds they make, removal of these takes a move action and deals damage equal the the weapon's base die. Alternately a standard action and DC 15 heal check can be used to remove one safely. Having these weapons stuck make movement difficult, and bestows a -1 penalty to attack rolls, armour class, and skills relating to movement (Balance, Climb, Jump, Tumble, Swim) per weapon to a maximum penalty equal to the Thorn's Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns until removed. Further saves against the Thorn's slumbering shots ability are made at a penalty of -1 per two stuck slumbering arrow, bolt or bullet.

Weapon of Barbs (Su): Sometimes a Thorn may find himself faced with a challenge in which his weapon is not sufficient. Those of fourth level may empower a thorned weapon they are wielding, increasing it's enhancement bonus to a maximum of +1 and grant a +1 equivalent weapon special ability. As the Thorn advances in HD their ability to enhance their weapon also increases. At 6, 10, 14, and 18 HD the enhancement bonus provided increases, to a maximum of +5 at 18 HD. The equivalent bonus of provided weapon special abilities similarly increases by +1 at 8, 12, 16, and 20 HD, with a total of +5 equivalent at 20 HD. These special abilities are chosen anew whenever the thorn acquires a new HD and apply to all weapons used with the ability. So a fourth level Thorn could choose Keen, turning weapons into +1 Keen Weapons, but upon gaining another level decide to replace Keen and make his weapons +1 Merciful Weapons.

This ability takes a swift action to activate but only a free action to deactivate. A thorn can provide this effect for up to a number of rounds per encounter equal to half his Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns.

Subduing Strike Adaptation
For those Interested in a Thorn more focused on taking down an opponent without killing them, I have preserved the original Subduing Strikes ability below. A Thorn making use of this variant does not gain sneak attack at second level, nor the improvement at 4th, instead it gains the ability detailed below:

Subduing Strike (Ex): Continuing to advance in skill with their thorned weapons, Thorns of second level can deal an additional 1d8 points of damage when striking non-lethally. This increases to 2d8 points of nonlethal damage at fourth level. Creatures immune to critical hits are not immune to a Thorn's subduing strikes. If a Thorn gains the ability to strike non-lethally without penalty from another class, he increases his subduing strike damage by 1d8 while striking non-lethally.

Some of this training is still effective when dealing lethal damage, but to a diminished effect. He can deal half his subduing strike damage when striking a target that he flanks or is denied it's dexterity bonus to AC when dealing lethal damage.

You may treat subduing strike as sneak attack for the purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes. Thorn's with levels in classes that advance sneak attack can choose to advance their subduing strike damage instead of sneak attack. Those that posses both sneak attack and subduing strike damage can deal both in the same attack, so long as the requirements for both are met. Thorns can stack additional types of extra damage dice, but as with steak attack must all the different requirements for what the want to apply (which for subduing strikes is dealing non-lethal damage).

Changelog
December 3rd
Rolled DR and NA into one ability, renamed 'Protection of the Courts.'
Fixed some spelling errors.
Weapon of Thorns updated to quantify pieces of ammunition effected.
Subduing strikes tweaked to allow for later advancement through PrCs.
Slumbering shots tweak to make less abusable and more straight forward.
Weapon of Barbs changed to make it a bit more versatile and effective.
December 7th
Spelling Corrections
Minor tweak to Weapon of Thorns
Removed said tweaked, attached to Subduing Strikes instead
December 9th
More Weapon of Thorns tweaks
Moved proficiencies placement in the text
Moved natural armour back to first
Subduing Strike's nature clarified along with it's interaction with sneak attack.
December 10th
Made some spelling corrections
Opened up the weapon usage with slumbering shots.
Small wording change to weapon of barbs to reflect changes to slumbering shots.
Increased ability boosts to make 1st level more appealing
December 12th
Weapon of Thorn's enhancement gaining process overhauled.
Slumbering Shots also overhauled.
Changed wording on slumbering shots from struck to damaged.
Added additional utility against constructs and undead
Added some scaling to weapon of barbs melee aspect.
December 13th
Another spelling correction
Weapon of Thorns imbuement ability duration reduced
Subduing strike interaction with damage sources other the sneak attack clarified.
Weapon of Barbs melee ability clarified further.
December 18th
Slight change to the effects of having a Slumbering Shot stuck in the target
Added Wisdom functionality to Weapon of Barbs.
Weapon of Barbs ranged ability tweaked slightly.
Subduing Strike relegated to an adaptation, Thorns now gain sneak attack.
Subduing Strike has also been tweaked.
Capped the penalty to dexterity from Weapon of Barbs at the Thorn's wisdom modifier.
Added Training or Talent ability, abilities function off a choice of charisma or wisdom.
Added Heal as a class skill in case a Thorn want to remove his weapons safely from a target.
Weapon of Thorns enchanting ability clarified.
December 23rd
Updated table to reflect the base class gaining sneak attack
January 3rd (2011)
Added a cap to slumbering shots fired in a round
January 12th
Clarification added to the table on ability boost gains.
Clarified how the reselection of special abilities for Weapon of Thorns works.
Removed awkwardness from the wording on the ability to transform normal weapon into thorned weapons.
Added some additional notes on stacking the Thorn's Sneak Attack with other classes.
Fixed spelling errors and awkward wording for Slumbering Shots.
Instances of 'chosen ability mod' replaced with 'Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns'.
Updated Weapon of Barbs's melee benefit to Subduing strikes to reflect that ability's removal.
Clarified how the penalties for ranged Weapon of Barbs work.
February 3rd
Weapon of Barbs changed to cover Weapon of Thorns's enhancing effect instead.
Weapon of Barbs's previous effect retained under 'Piercing Strikes.'
Specified that the enhancing ability provides the bonus for a number of rounds in an encounter, rather then overall. Noticed that aside from the round limit there were no other usage qualifiers.
Staggered out the gains from the enhancement ability.
Piercing Strikes melee aspect changed to make more competitive.
Weapon of Thorns/Barbs can now be used with unarmed strikes.
February 4th
Spelling corrections!
Correcting some outdated references to abilities.
Slight tweak to the 10HD advancement of slumbering shots.
Ranged Piercing Strikes penalty against Slumbering Shots toned down slightly.
Weapon of Barbs duration reduced
February 5th
Dex to damage moved to first level.
Removed non-essential line and correction some spelling on Weapon of Barbs.
Weapon of Barbs interaction with magical weapons clarified.
February 11th
Reduced benefits to Piercing Strikes's melee portion
Removed bonuses to slumbering shots for the target having nonlethal damage.
April 2nd
Cleaned up and updated the class to follow current formatting conventions.

Comments
Thorns were interesting, and a bit smaller of a class then I thought when I originally got the concept down. Their thorn weapons were cool, and I liked the fluff and sleeping arrows. Building on that I put him together with a sort of control focus, taking down enemies in a condition to imprison or try them in the Fey Courts afterwords. Subduing Strikes was initially used d8s, since it takes more subdual damage to take someone down, but I reduced it to d6s when I started adding everything else.

I'm not completely happy with Weapon of Barbs ranged feature, but that's what feedback and suggestions are for.

The Marrash is mostly complete as well, but I'm heading out tonight and I'm more of a one-at-a-time type guy, so I'm going to finish and work on polishing him up behind the scenes for when the Thorn's finished.

[Niezck]

Well I've removed the multiclassing part, so hopefully that should make it a bit more balanced. Also swapped sonic clap and maneuvers around, so it gets something useable at 1st level. I wouldn't say that a 1d4 sonic clap with DC 10+Cha to negate is broken at level 1, so hopefully it's OK.

I've also changed the wording on lightning gaze as you requested and downed the stat boosts to a total of +8.

[monkman]

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Abilities|Ability Boosts

1st|+0|+0|+2|+2|Body of Thorns, Weapon of Thorns|
2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Barked Skin, Subduing Strike +1d6|+1 Dex
3rd|+2|+1|+3|+3|Slumbering Shots|
4th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Weapon of Barbs, Subduing Strike +2d6|+1 Dex[/table]The ability increases would be better not writen on the table(it's kinda ulgy)


Body of Thorns: A Thorn looses all other racial characteristics and becomes a creature of the Fey type with the following traits:
Small Size
Base Land Speed 20ft
Low-light Vision
Proficiency with all simple weapons, plus the longbow, longsword, rapier, shortbow, shortsword and whip.
Proficiency with light armour, bucklers and light shields
DR/cold iron equal to half its HD.
Profs should go just under the table,Dr should be in another ability


Weapon of Thorns (Ex): Thorns are trained to use special weapons and ammunition, crafted with many barbs to create a very thorn-like appearance. While wielding such a weapon a Thorn can freely deal either leathal or non-lethal damage and may inflict slashing or piercing damage in place of a weapon's standard damage type. Creatures without this ability take a -2 penalty while wielding a Weapon of Thorns weapon due to the added difficulty and gain no benefits from doing so.

When without such a weapon and within a natural environment a Thorn may use small power granted to them by the faerie courts and force the weapon to grow thorns in can take proper advantage of. This process takes five minutes and only changes the weapons appearance, it still benefits from any properties of the material used in its original construction or those imbued with magical enchantments. This is a supernatural ability.
How long does this last?And what's the point of this ability?


Subduing Strike (Ex): Continuing to advance in skill with their thorned weapons, Thorns of second level can deal an aditional 1d6 points of damage when striking non-leathaly. This increases to 2d6 points of non-leathal damage at fourth level.I would never use this.Why exacly would i want to non leathly hit someone?Most of the creatures arent really things that you want to save,


Slumbering Shots (Ex): Taking cues from the pixies, Thorns of at least third (Level??) learn to make sleeping arrows. Any creature strick by one of this arrows must succeed on a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + Wis Mod or be affected as though by a sleep spell, regardless of HD. If the creature has unhealed non-lethal damage or the attack itself deals non-lethal damage it recieved a -2 penalty to this save.

Gathering the necesary ingredients takes a DC 15 survival check in a natural environment and one hour's work for every 20 arrows worth. For every 5 points by which a Thorn beats the DC he can gather an adition 20 arrows worth of ingredients at no extra cost in time. Mixing takes another half-hour and then they can be applied to an arrow as a standard action and last until used.
This is a little overpowered,You can just make all you+your allies arrows have the sleep properity.At level 3 it can be quite powerfull.


Melee: Against an offguard opponent a Thorn can use that edge to strip away their defences. Against a target that would be denied its dexterity bonus to AC or that the Thorn flanks, he reduces any natural armour bonus they posses by one per sucessful attack. Their natural armour bonus returns to normal after recieving 5 points of healing for every one point of natural armour removed.
Unless,You dont really get flat footed enemies and 1 natural armor isnt that much.It also quite useless Vs humanoids.


Ranged: The barbs on thorned thrown weapons and pieces of ammunition cause them to get stuck in the wounds they make, removal of these takes a move action and deals damage equal the the weapon's base die. Alternately a standard action and DC 15 heal check can be used to remove one safely. Aditionally, the Thorn can form the barbs on pieces of ammunition as part of the same action used to draw them.
It's alright but in the battle you dont really take out arrows.

[Magicyop]

Living Spell: Don't forget it for the Living Spell. That's your 1st priority right now.

Cheshire Cat & Arcadian Avenger are added.

Don't worry, I haven't. I've been working on adding descriptions for all the spells, I should have it done before too long.

I'll add a new featured monster momentarily.

[AugustNights]

Um, so what if he's not a great homebrewer? I'm not a great homebrewer. Nobody on this thread is. There are probably 2 or 3 people on this forum who are "great homebrewers".
The point of that was, if he was really, really good, he could make it just as good without the fluff restrictions. I'm not even sure I could do that, though.

It doesn´t matter who is what level of homebrewer. That's my point. It doesn't need to be pointed out, because it doesn't matter. The definition of a 'Great Homebrewer is vague' and expressing that you do not believe someone is will most likley read as insulting. If its unnessisary, and insulting, why have it?

On a different note:
My suggestions and reviews and discussions or whatever appropriate word will be delayed, as that I've come down with a nasty throat cold, and have found myself inable to keep up in my classes.
Being sick hasn't helped matters much.

Edit: And I found time.

Werebear
Thanks for your support Crafty Cultist.
Skills look good.
For bear alternate form speed, you might list what the Bear's speed is.
40 feet base land speed, isn't it?
Thanks for adding the Alternate form spoiler!
Forager's nose is a fantastic name, and a great ability.
Bear Hug: Fun! Uhm, but a bit strong. I'd probably bump it down to 2d6 damage + 2d6 per size category above medium. But that's just me. A (And only in Bear Form) caveat for the damage part would be nice. Great example of an ability that has benefits in more than one form, but offers great incentive to be in bear form! Love the suffocation bit, I'd toss in a mention if the creature has the opportunity to take a large breath of air (I assume no) because it changes how fast they suffocate.
Indominable: Same suggestion of a (And only in Hybrid Form) reminder. Also, fun! Active defense! I like it. The diehard bit is in all forms, yes? May want to specify either way. Also I believe it is spelled “Indomitable.”
Looks like a very fun class to me, and has a very Bear feel.

Wereraptor
This guy needs a name.
Overhaul calls for Medium and Small or Medium and Large Prereqs.
If he has 3/4 Bab, he needs 4+ Int Mod skills.
Still needs: Handle Animal (Wis) and Knowledge (Nature) (Int).
Being able to Jump as part of a charge should be a different ability than Alternate form.
That bite attack is huge for Medium, but as a shrinker I see no problem with it... ah but he's a grower. I see wereraptors as shrinkers, but if you like them growing, I'm gunna recommend you reduce the bite attack to only 1 step higher than normal for a medium creature.
Alternate form needs to specify that Unlike normal creatures with Alternate Forms the Wereraptor gains the hit points increase from any change to its Constitution.
Can the Wereraptor not Speak in Hybrid form? Why?
Alternate form needs the actions required to assume its form.

I think a Progression more akin to this would be better:

{table=head]Wereraptor level +1/2 other levels|Ability Improvements
1|+1 Dex
2|+1 Dex +1 Str
3|+2 Dex, +1 Str
4|+2 Dex, +2 Str
5|+3 Dex, +2 Str
6|+3 Dex, +3 Str
7|+4 Dex, +3 Str
8|+4 Dex, +4 Str
9|+5 Dex, +4 Str
10|+5 Dex, +5 Str
11|+6 Dex, +5 Str
12|+6 Dex, +6 Str[/table]


Raptor Traits should read

Raptor Traits: A wereraptor in raptor form gains scent and gains a bonus on all hide skill equal to half his HD. This increases to a hide bonus equal to his full HD if the wereraptor makes a full-round action to hide. At second level his Raptor Traits ability works regardless of form.

Also I'm still not terribly keen on your choice of hide bonus. But it's balanced. That's just a flavor thing for me. If you like it, keep it.

Raptor teamwork Should clearly state that it only functions in Raptor form. Something like "(And only while in Raptor Form)." Further, its language is still messy and unclear.

Swift blows: Same story about clearly functioning only in hybrid form.
The damage scales a little heavily towards the end, in fact it’s terrifying at the end, more terrifying than it should be, it seems to me.

Don't assume you’re finished yet! With the overhaul there's always more to do.
Also, you're lacking a L.1 Power, This would be a fine place for the Jump and Charge thing.

Animated Object
My first thought is: Object Power at Every level and more object powers!
Speed increases should be an Object Power Methinks.
I like the openess of being able to be any object within a per HD price range.

As for 'growth' I think it should also be able to grow down.
What if I want to play an animated Marble?
Animated Teacup?
An animated fly-fishhook.
An animated stuffed Teddy Bear?
An animated necklace?
An animated pen-plume?
Keep in mind that Cats are Tiny Sized, and Halflings are Small.
Knock over is super fun.
Hardness, in my mind, should not be fluff based, rather I feel it should follow the DR (Because that's what it basically is) rules. 1/2 HD.
Hidden Life is fun!
Like Never Alive. 1/week might be better.
Distributed Consciousness: How Fun!
Magic Item: This might be cool to have an alternate ability to allow the 'gold' per HD to be spent on being a magical Item. That way the player could be an animated... Hand of Glory... an easy way to choke that pesky mage.

Object Power Ideas:
Breath Weapons
Slam Damages of different types (Slashing, Piercing)
Appear as magical item, and have specific Aura
Hey look, that's a Periapt of Wisdom! Ima put it on! Last words of Josef the Doomed to be Strangled.
Swim Speeds
Bonuses on skills like Craft.
Inspiring Flags
Work as a shield for someone with enhancement bonus.
Steal like crazy from the Fiend of Possession...
Bind people on a pin.
Flying Books?
Blinding Light.
Dwarven Made (?)
Elven Made (?)
Halfling Made (?)
Gnomish Made (Overly complicated, of course)
Orcish Made (?)
Goblin Made (Underly complicated, of course)
Kobold Made
Gravy Kobold Made (More tasty than Kobold Made)
Produce Food 1/day, scales to Hero's Feast
Scrying for Pools of water, mirrors, and crystal balls.
Illusions for Mirrors, Kyladascopes, and other things...
Animate a Corpse, Be a psudozombie. (A corpse is an object, after all!)
Religious Artifact (Like Codex but for Divine Spells)
Crystalline Resonance (Like Codex but for Psionic Powers)
Warrior Made (Like Codex but for Maneuvers)
Soul Crafted (Like Codex but for Incarnum)
Ect w/ all spell casting types.
Improved Magic Cupboard (up to 100 gp per day all non magical)
Speech?
Ability to hold creatures, and offer them X hours of Air. (Good with Burrow or Swim speed abilities!)
Ability To Wield Weapons
Ability to Wear hats (Cloths Rack)
Ability to Manipulate objects. (If it has 'hands')
Ability to Take control of someone wearing it (Scarf of possession!)
Bite Attack, because a hungry treasure chest that isn't a mimic would make me run in fear.
Alternate form for something malleable?
Swallow Whole for things with large container space.
Wardrobes or Make up sets that can Alter-Self/Disguise-Self on others.
Art sets that can use Arcane Mark.
Objects able to produce poison.
Stuffed animals that radiate calming auras.
High pitched deafening whistles.
Cradle, Mobile, blanky with sleepy aura.
Shaving kit, other knifes with sneak attack like damage.
Animated Tools: Can always Take 10
~Healing Kit: Cure Wounds Spell 1/day
~Thieves Tools Kit: Knock as Spell 1/day

I'm sure I can think of some more if you need it.

I think this is the answer to the Fluff dilemma, with a bazillion options, you could be an optimized object, but you'd need to be something oddball, like a four wheeled cart, with a set of drapes nailed on, and a mirror glued to the front. At this point, if you're DM is allowing you to play this...Drapecartmirror, ask them if you can play a Kobold Divine Minion 1 MMF 3.

Thorn
Love Weapon of Thorns!
Might Specifiy how it can be applied to ammunition (5 minutes per individual arrow, 5 minutes for 20, or 5 minutes for 50?)
Is Slumbering Arrows a poison? It's ex, so its not exactly magical, so I would assume so. The thing is some classes can apply poison quicker than what is normal (A move action I think is normal), is it possible to hasten the Slumbering Shots Application?


I'm not completely happy with Weapon of Barbs ranged feature, but that's what feedback and suggestions are for.
How about a Dexterity penalty untill removed, and twice base die damage if removed without a heal check? Alternatively a bleeding out danger if removed without a heal check? Heal check DC scales with the Thorn? Thorns grow in the creature continually dealing minimal damage each round, until removed, which still deals damage?


Slumbering Shots (Ex): Taking cues from the pixies, Thorns of at least third [level] learn to make sleeping arrows. Any creature [struck] by one of this arrows must succeed on a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + Wis Mod or be affected as though by a sleep spell, regardless of HD. If the creature has unhealed non-lethal damage or the attack itself deals non-lethal damage it [receives] a -2 penalty to this save.
Spelling errors, but small ones

Ultroloth
On my cue of things to do, sorry.

[Magicyop]

Animated Object
My first thought is: Object Power at Every level and more object powers!
Speed increases should be an Object Power Methinks.
I like the openess of being able to be any object within a per HD price range.


I like it. I'll move the movement speed increase to Object Powers.


As for 'growth' I think it should also be able to grow down.
What if I want to play an animated Marble?
Animated Teacup?
An animated fly-fishhook.
An animated stuffed Teddy Bear?
An animated necklace?
An animated pen-plume?
Keep in mind that Cats are Tiny Sized, and Halflings are Small.
Knock over is super fun.
Hardness, in my mind, should not be fluff based, rather I feel it should follow the DR (Because that's what it basically is) rules. 1/2 HD.
Hidden Life is fun!
Like Never Alive. 1/week might be better.
Distributed Consciousness: How Fun!
Magic Item: This might be cool to have an alternate ability to allow the 'gold' per HD to be spent on being a magical Item. That way the player could be an animated... Hand of Glory... an easy way to choke that pesky mage.

You're right about the size! I'll add that.

Hardness is actually better than DR-- it applies to magical damage too! But perhaps you're right.

For Never Alive: I'm not sure. I'm not a big fan of 1/week powers, but if you think it's too powerful.

I love most of your Object Power ideas, and I shall add them in.


Dwarven Made (?)
Elven Made (?)

I had an awesome idea. Instead of giving and relieving them of powerful build in the growth chart, I'll make them grow/shrink in the growth chart, flat out. Dwarven Made could grant Powerful Build, and Elven Made could grant Sleight Build. (Sturdy vs. Elegant.)


I think this is the answer to the Fluff dilemma, with a bazillion options, you could be an optimized object, but you'd need to be something oddball, like a four wheeled cart, with a set of drapes nailed on, and a mirror glued to the front. At this point, if you're DM is allowing you to play this...Drapecartmirror, ask them if you can play a Kobold Divine Minion 1 MMF 3.

True that. Good ideas. Thanks for critiquing!

Hope your cold feels better soon.

[TheGeckoKing]

After a chat with Gorgon, i've removed the Ultroloth, so he can do it himself. I'll scan my books and see what I can brew up later. As of now, I'm too annoyed to make anything.

[Crafty Cultist]

Werebear
Thanks for your support Crafty Cultist.
Skills look good.
For bear alternate form speed, you might list what the Bear's speed is.
40 feet base land speed, isn't it?
Thanks for adding the Alternate form spoiler!
Forager's nose is a fantastic name, and a great ability.
Bear Hug: Fun! Uhm, but a bit strong. I'd probably bump it down to 2d6 damage + 2d6 per size category above medium. But that's just me. A (And only in Bear Form) caveat for the damage part would be nice. Great example of an ability that has benefits in more than one form, but offers great incentive to be in bear form! Love the suffocation bit, I'd toss in a mention if the creature has the opportunity to take a large breath of air (I assume no) because it changes how fast they suffocate.
Indominable: Same suggestion of a (And only in Hybrid Form) reminder. Also, fun! Active defense! I like it. The diehard bit is in all forms, yes? May want to specify either way. Also I believe it is spelled “Indomitable.”
Looks like a very fun class to me, and has a very Bear feel.

speed added

Bear hug damage has been reduced. Taking a large breath would generally have no effect as the bear hug forces the air from the creatures lungs, so holding its breath will generally not have an effect.

Indomitable has been reworded to make it clear that the diehard feat fuctions in all forms, while the other abilities only work in hybrid form.

Next up is the rewrite of Werewolf. Any suggestions for the forth level ability? I like alpha wolf, but it doesn't fit in the "hybrid ability" criteria.

Also on the subject of lycanthropes, the third level ability score increase originally represented the transformation begining to affect the character's mind. Generally this would be a wisdom bonus to represent sharpened insticts. While there is room for variation(a werefox might get a bonus to intellegence to represent increased cunning, while a wereeagle might get a charisma bonus to represent its majesty) I think the third level ability bonus should apply to a mental ability. Feel free to do otherwise if you disagree, these are just my thoughts.

[Mystic Muse]

Well, I needed a break from Illurien and the 4e Necromancer so I did a little editing to the Pyroclastic Dragon.


HD: d12
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1 | +1 | +2|+0 |+2 |Pyroclastic Body, Produce Flame, Arcane blood, +1 strength
2| +2| +3|+0 |+3 | Keen senses, Pyroclastic Breath,
3| +3| +3|+1| +3| Blindsense 60 feet, Sound Burst
4| +4| +4| +1|+4 | Wings, +10 Speed +1 Constitution
5| +5| +4| +1| +4| Growth, Magma Body
6| +6| +5|+2 |+5 | Pyrotechnics, Shatter, +1 Charisma
7| +7| +5| +2| +5| Destruction Breath, See no Evil
8| +8| +6| +2| +6| Wall of Fire, Improved Sunder
9| +9| +6|+3 |+6| Growth, Tail Slap, +1 strength, +1 Constitution
10| +10| +7|+3 |+7 | Shout, Wall of Stone, +1 Charisma
11| +11| +7| +3|+7 | Pyroclastic Scales, Destruction Body, +10 Speed
12| +12| +8| +4|+8 |Growth, Frightful presence, Crush, +1 strength, +1 Constitution
13| +13| +8| +4| +8| Hear No Evil, Gehenna Sunder, +1 Charisma
14| +14 | +9| +4| +9| Power Word Stun, Volcano +1 strength, +1 Constitution
15| +15 | +9| +5| +9| Fire Storm, Pyroclastic Magic
16| +16 | +10| +5| +10| Incendiary Cloud, Pyroclastic Assault, +1 Charisma
17| +17| +10| +5| +10|Meteor Swarm, +1 strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
18| +18| +11| +6| +11| Growth, Tail Sweep, +1 strength, +1 Constitution
19| +19 | +11| +6| +11|Immobile, +1 strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
20| +20| +12| +6| +12|Magma Body, Eruption
[/table]

4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, jump, spot, listen, appraise, bluff, intimidate, Knowledge(any), spellcraft.


Proficiencies: a Pyroclastic dragon isn't proficient with any armor or weapons, besides his own natural weapons

Pyroclastic BodyThe Pyroclastic dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, Bite 1d8 damage, 2 claws for 1d6 damage each, a 40 foot base land speed and medium size, plus a climb and burrow speed equal to half his land speed each. The Pyroclastic dragon has wings but they're too weak to do anything for now. His claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for anything a human hand could do.

The Pyroclastic dragon also gets a natural armor bonus equal to 1+Constitution modifier Whenever the Pyroclastic dragon grows one size category, his natural armor increases by a further 1.

The Pyroclastic dragon has resistance to Sonic damage equal to its total hit dice. In addition to this, The Pyroclastic dragon has complete immunity to mundane fire and resistance to magical fire equal to its total hit dice.


Pyroclastic Magic: The Pyroclastic dragon can use the following SLAs the following amount of times per day.

Level 1: Produce Flame 1/day per HD

Level 3: Sound Burst 1/day per HD

Level 6: Pyrotechnics and Shatter 1/day per 2 HD each

Level 8: Wall of Fire 1/day per 2 HD

Level 10:Shout, Wall of Stone, 1/day per 2 HD each

Level 14: Power Word, Stun, 1/day per 3 HD

Level 15:Fire Storm, 1/day per 4 HD

Level 16:Incendiary Cloud, 1/day per 5 HD

Level 17:Meteor Swarm, 1/day per 6 HD

Ability Increase: The pyroclastic dragon gains the following bonus at the following levels

{table]Level | Ability Bonus
1 | +1 strength
4| +1 Constitution
6| +1 Charisma
9|+1 strength, +1 Constitution
10|+1 Charisma
12| +1 strength, +1 Constitution
13| +1 Charisma
14| +1 strength, +1 Constitution
16| +1 Charisma
17| +1 strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
18| +1 strength, +1 Constitution
19| +1 strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
[/table]
For a total of +7 strength, +7 Constitution and +6 Charisma at 20th level.



Arcane Blood: A Pyroclastic Dragon receives spells known and spells per day as a bard of same level, but he casts as a sorcerer and takes his spells known from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

If it multi-classes as a bard it's spell casting increases as a bard.
If it multi-classes as a sorcerer it counts as already having sorcerer casting depending on it's dragon level, as shown on the following table.

{table]Dragon Level | Virtual sorcererr casting
1|-
2|1
3|2
4|3
5|4
6|5
7|6
8|6
9|7
10|8
11|8
12|9
13|10
14|10
15|11
16|12
17|12
18|13
19|13
20|13
[/table]

So for example a dragon 2 who takes a level of sorcerer would count as already having 1 level of sorcerer and gains the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gains when leveling from level 1 to 2, but not the spell slots and spells known from the 1st level of sorcerer. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

A dragon 18 who takes a level of sorcerer would count as having 14 levels of sorcerer(13+1) and gain the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gains when leveling from level 13 to 14, but not the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gets from level 1 to 13. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

His Caster level remains equal to his full HD when multiclassing to sorcerer.

If a dragon takes a casting Prestige Class, it may choose to advance his casting as that of a sorcerer. So a Dragon 10/Loremaster 10 would cast as a 18th level sorcerer (he would still receive spell slots and spells known from a bard 10 from the first 10 dragon levels and then the spell slots and spells known from a sorcerer 11-18 for the loremaster levels)

Keen Senses: At second level, the Pyroclastic dragon's senses become far stronger. The Pyroclastic dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet

Pyroclastic Breath: At second level the Pyroclastic dragon gains a breath weapon. The breath weapon is a 30 foot Cone dealing 1d6 damage/HD, half fire and half sonic damage, with a reflex save DC of 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier for half an takes 1d4 rounds to recharge. The Cone increases by 5 feet for every extra hit die the dragon gains.

Blindsense: At third level the dragon gains Blindsense as the normal ability, range 60 feet.

Wings: At 4th level The Pyroclastic dragon becomes able to fly at the speed of 10 feet per HD, with poor maneuverability. The maneuverability doesn't increase naturally, but players can take the Savage Species feat that increases it by two steps(stack-able). Each wing can also be now used to deliver a natural attack dealing 1d4 damage.

Speed Increase: At 4th and again at 11th level the pyroclastic dragon gains +10 foot to his base speed.

Growth:At 5th level the Dragon grows to large size. At 12th he grows to huge and at 18th he grows to Gargantuan. His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.


Tail Slap:At fifth level The Pyroclastic dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 damage(already taking in account large size).


Magma Body: At 5th level, the Pyroclastic dragon body itself starts to change into magma. It gains light fortification and a bonus on saves against poison, stun and polymorph effects equal to his HD.

Destruction Breath: line 130 feet, Creatures hit are reduced to ash unless they succeed on a Fort save DC of 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier, 1d4 turns recharge time. Line increases by 10 feet with each extra HD the player takes from here.

See No Evil - The Pyroclastic Dragon is used to dwelling amid exploding geysers of magma. At 7th level, the middling effects of spells such as Pyrotechnics and Glitterdust can simply be shrugged off. The Pyroclastic Dragon is immune to the Blind status effect. It is still affected normally by lighting Conditions and darkness.

Improved Sunder at 8th level the Pyroclastic dragon gains the Improved Sunder feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

Pyroclastic Scales. at 11th level the Pyroclastic dragon gains SR equal to his HD+11 and gains DR/magic and good equal to half his HD.

Destruction body: At 11th level the Pyroclastic dragon deals an additional 1d6 fire damage with each successful natural attack. This extra damage increases one die step for every 3 HD gained from here.

Frightful Presence: at 12th level the dragon gains frightful presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet × half the dragon's level are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected enemy that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Hear No Evil - Having spent hundreds of years in Gehenna, hearing the Constantly exploding volcanoes the souls screaming and moaning in despair, the Pyroclastic Dragon is practiced in ignoring what it does not wish to hear. At 13th level it may treat itself as being under the effects of a silence spell when such would be beneficial to it. This is an extraordinary effect and is not suppressed by an anti-magic field.

Gehenna Sunder: At 13th level, In addition to the improved sunder feat, When attempting to sunder an item (Or Construct) the Dragon's weapons count as having a shatter effect upon them. The caster level for the effect is equal to the Dragon's caster level.

Volcano: At 14th level the pyroclastic dragon has sudden bursts of activity. It may take an extra standard or move action on his turn, but after taking it he needs to wait 5 turns before using this ability again.

Pyroclastic Magic: At 15th level, whenever the pyroclastic dragon uses an SLA that would deal fire damage, he may have half the damage dealt be sonic. In addition his caster level for all [Fire] and [Sonic] spells increases by 2, and now ignore any Caster level limits on such spells.


Pyroclastic Assault: At 16th level, the Pyroclastic dragon may charge at an enemy even if there's non worked non-magical ground, earth and/or stone between them, automatically destrengthoying the obstacles. This includes any material trough which the pyroclastic dragon can burrow and Stone Walls. The dragon must still find his opponent’s position trough some mean.


Tail sweep:This special attack allows a dragon of at least Gargantuan size to sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet (or 40 feet for a Colossal dragon), extending from an intersection on the edge of the dragon’s space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are four or more size categories smaller than the dragon. A tail sweep automatically deals 2d6 plus 1½ times the dragon’s strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon).

Immobile:The pyroclastic dragon represents the very core of the world. It can ignore any effect that would cause it to move and/or change dimensions against his will.

Volcanic body: The pyroclastic dragon is now fully immune to criticals, poison, stun, and polymorph effects against his will, and is also fully immune to fire and sonic.

Eruption: The Pyroclastic dragons explosions are a sight to behold. It may now take an extra full round action on his turn instead of just an extra partial action. It must wait five turns before using this again.

Changelog and reasoning.


Well, the entire point of these classes is to allow more concepts right? I thought spellcasting might do that. Before I implemented this however, I tried comparing the Pyroclastic to other dragons, and I think the other dragons have similar abilities that match the Pyroclastic's and they get spellcasting. So, I figured the planar ones should too. In addition, I fixed a couple of spelling errors. If I was wrong about the balance levels, then I apologize for wasting everybody's time.

If people do like the change and think it was in order, then I'll do the same to the Styx dragon.

[Betropper]

Fixed up the Wereraptor a bit according to your suggestions, ChumpLump.

[Kajhera]

Grell

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/lom_gallery/88142.jpg


Grell: A base character class.

Hit Dice: d8

{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Features
1|+0|+0|+0|+2|Aberrant Body, Electric Nature, Blindsight, Paralyzing Tentacles
2|+1|+0|+0|+3|Improved Grab, Powerful Tentacles, Buoyant, +1 Dex
3|+2|+1|+1|+3|Expert Grappler, Growth, Reach, +1 Con
[/table]

Skill Points: 2+int (x4 at level 1)
Skills: Craft, Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Profession, Spot
Proficiencies: Grell are proficient with their natural attacks and grellcraft weapons.

Features:
Aberrant Body: The grell loses all racial bonuses and gains aberration traits. A grell is a small aberration with speed 20', +5' each level after first. It hovers above the ground, but it must remain within 1' above a solid or liquid surface. This allows it to ignore difficult terrain and move above liquids such as water without difficulty. A grell is blind (though it can still detect enemies with its blindsight ability). A grell is immune to gaze attacks, visual
effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight. A grell gains natural armor equal to its Con bonus. A grell has 2 tentacles as primary natural weapons (1d3+str) and a bite as a secondary natural weapon with 0' reach (1d4+1/2str). A grell gains 1 tentacle attack every 3 HD after first. Its tentacles are capable of fine manipulation, but can only wield grellcraft weapons. It can speak undercommon and grell as starting languages.

Grell Language: Grell is spoken by a combination of auditory and electrical signals. Grell must be within range of each others' blindsight to employ the electrical part and communicate complex concepts. However, they may communicate simple concepts via either method, auditory being able to travel over a greater distance, and electrical imperceptible to most creatures.

Electric Nature (Ex): A grell gains a bonus on saves against paralysis equal to its HD. It also gains electricity resistance equal to its HD.

Blindsight (Ex): 40', +5' for each hit die after first.

Paralyzing Tentacles (Ex): HDxCon modifier times per day, a grell may paralyze with one or more of its tentacle attacks for a round. Any creature hit by a grell's tentacle must make a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds (DC 10 + 1/2HD + Con modifier). Creatures struck by multiple tentacle attacks in the same round do not make multiple saving throws, nor does this take any additional uses; instead, the DC of the save increases by 1 for each additional tentacle that hit in the same round. At 2nd level, when a creature fails his saving throw, he is paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds; and at 3rd level, a creature that fails his saving throw is paralyzed for 2d4 rounds.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a grell must hit an opponent of its size or smaller with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Powerful Tentacles (Ex): A 2nd-level grell is treated as medium-sized for the purpose of grapple checks. On a successful grapple, a grell constricts and deals 1d4+str points of damage. This damage increases by a step when the grell gains a size category.

Buoyant: A 2nd-level grell is under the effect of a constant feather fall, may levitate itself as the spell to a height of 5'/HD off the ground. At 5HD, it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed with perfect maneuverability.

Expert Grappler (Ex): Grell gain a +1/2 HD racial bonus on all grapples.

A grell that chooses to grapple with one tentacle and remain ungrappled itself reduces the penalty for such a hold by 1/HD, from the normal -20 penalty. So, for example, a 10th-level grell takes only a -10 penalty on holds using a single tentacle.

A grell may use multiple tentacles in a hold so that the penalty is reduced by another point for each tentacle employed. A 10th-level grell could use 3 tentacles to grapple a single creature at a -7 penalty, and 7 tentacles to grapple another creature at a -3 penalty.

Growth: A 3rd-level grell grows from small to medium, along with the normal non-ability changes associated with such.

Reach: A 3rd-level grell has 10' reach with its tentacle attacks.

Grellcraft Weaponry

Grellcraft: The grellcraft special quality may be added to any one-handed or light melee weapon. It loses its range increment, if any. Grellcraft weapons cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts (this includes only the base weapon price, not magic, masterwork, or material costs).

A grellcraft weapon alters one tentacle attack to which it is attached, rather than acting as a wielded weapon. The tentacle's type of damage, damage die, critical threat range, and critical threat multiplier change to match the weapon, and it gains any special properties of the weapon (dealing nonlethal damage, +2 on disarm). It continues to be able to deliver paralysis attempts. A grell wielding a one-handed grellcraft weapon gains an additional 5' of reach with its tentacle attack.

If the attached weapon is a reach weapon, instead add the weapon's reach to the tentacle attack.


Changelog:

*Clarified some things.
*Changed Electricity Immunity to Electricity Resistance.
*Ctrl-X'ed paralysis immunity.
*Reduced tentacle progression so you are level 9 by the time you get all 10 tentacles.
*Removed simple weapon proficiencies. Feral grell do not use weapons. Subject to change.
--
*Elaborated on grellcraft weaponry.
--
*Recombined Expert Grappler and Skillful Grappler into 3rd-level Expert Grappler.
*Put paralysis immunity back under aberrant body because I'm not sure where else it elegantly fits.
--
*Switched paralysis and electricity resistance into Electric Nature.
*Reinstituted weapon proficiencies.
*Changed Flight.
*Maybe did something else.
--
*Changed Flight, renamed Buoyancy.
*Changed proficiencies.
*Changed grappling bonuses to be based more on HD; tying them to tentacles led to some misconceptions of my intent.
*Gave just a touch more grappling power to the grell when it starts being able to use grappling abilities.
--
*Rephrased as per HD
*Reduced tentacle progression & removed cap
*Reduced grappling progression
*Cut paralysis attempts in half
--
*Changed tentacle attacks to gained every 3HD

[monkman]

Proficiencies: Grell are proficient with their natural attacks and grellcraft simple weapons.
Grellcraft? is that something from lords of madness(book)?

Features:
Aberrant Body: The grell loses all racial bonuses and gains aberration traits. A grell is a small aberration with fly speed 20' (perfect). A grell is blind. A grell can still detect enemies with its blindsight ability. A grell gains natural armor equal to its Con bonus. A grell has 2 tentacles as primary natural weapons (1d3+str) and a bite as a secondary natural weapon that it can use only against creatures in its space (1d4+1/2str). A grell gains 2 tentacle attacks each level after first, until it has 10 tentacle attacks. They are immune to electricity and paralysis.
What does *in it's space*mean exacly?
Tentacles are not Ok,10d3 at level 5 seems quite High but what happens if he starts using weapons?.Can it use fine manipulation?
No immunity to electricty and paralysis.Give it resitance equal to Hd and put it in another ability.

Blindsight (Ex): 40', +5' for each subsequent hit die. A grell can be effectively blinded only by both being deafened and having its electrical sense impaired. If subject to an effect dealing 5 electricity damage / hit die, it must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or have that aspect of its sense impaired for 1d4 rounds. If subject to an effect dealing 10 electricity damage/hit die, it must make a DC 20 fortitude save or have that aspect of its sense impaired for 2d4 rounds.
Take out the weakness, It makes the creature itself weaker and it more complicated.

Skillful Grappler (Ex): Grell employ their tentacles to excellent effect in grapples, using their smaller ones to assist. They gain a +1 racial bonus on all grapples/tentacle they possess.Wait does this mean, I get a bonus on grapple checks equal to the number of tentacles i have?Example: Im level 3 and have 6 tentacles,Do i get a +6 bonus to grapple checks?

[
i]Paralyzing Tentacles (Ex):[/i] 2xHDxCon MODIFIER times per day, a grell may paralyze with one or more of its tentacle attacks for a round. Any creature hit by a grell's tentacle must make a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds (DC 10 + 1/2HD + Con MODIFIER ). Creatures struck by multiple tentacle attacks in the same round do not make multiple saving throws; instead, the DC of the save increases by 1 for each additional tentacle that hit in the same round. At 2nd level, the duration improves to 1d4+1 rounds, and at 3rd level, the duration improves to 2d4 rounds.
Forgot to put the modifier After Con.

At 2nd level, the duration improves to 1d4+1 rounds
At second level, when a creatures fails his throw, He is paralised for 1d4+1 rounds.(Something like this would work,The way you wrote was bad(no offence)(But ive done worse:smallsmile:))


Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a grell must hit an opponent of its size or smaller with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.Just give them the Improved grapple feat.


Constrict (Ex): On a successful grapple, a grell deals 1d4+str points of damage.
Is this per tentacle?Beacuse at only 1d4,No one would ever use this.



Expert Grappler (Ex): A grell that chooses to grapple with one tentacle and remain ungrappled itself takes a -10 penalty on its attacks rather than the normal -20.First it called an Hold, Second what dose it do if your not in a hold?

I think that it's a good first attempt.It's got prombles but evirone has to start somewhere.

[Kajhera]

.
Grellcraft? is that something from lords of madness(book)?


Yeah. Made particularly for grell tentacles. I'm not sure what it impacts aside from shortspears, should probably do more research.



What does *in it's space*mean exacly?


Generally, grappling, or so forth. Has the reach of a tiny-sized creature, which phrases it about that way.




Tentacles are not Ok,10d3 at level 5 seems quite High but what happens if he starts using weapons?.Can it use fine manipulation?


Tentacles are kinda the whole point of playing a grell. Can perhaps reduce the progress, but they definitely need to get 10 tentacles by level 10, and preferably quicker. Also, they need to start out with at least 2. Any ideas for a prettier progression?

Tentacles are capable of fine manipulation but need specially-crafted weapons, aforementioned grellcraft most likely. Need to work it out. They have no trouble being wizards, any case.

... They also have different item slots but I wasn't sure I wanted to just copy those over.



No immunity to electricty and paralysis.Give it resitance equal to Hd and put it in another ability.


Sure. Err. Electricity resistance and ... put paralysis immunity in an ability?



Take out the weakness, It makes the creature itself weaker and it more complicated.


Yeah I ditched it before you posted.



Wait does this mean, I get a bonus on grapple checks equal to the number of tentacles i have?Example: Im level 3 and have 6 tentacles,Do i get a +6 bonus to grapple checks?

Precisely.



Forgot to put the modifier After Con.


Shall fix.



At second level, when a creatures fails his throw, He is paralised for 1d4+1 rounds.(Something like this would work,The way you wrote was bad(no offence)(But ive done worse:smallsmile:))


Shall fix.



Just give them the Improved grapple feat.


Will consider. Improved grab is much more monstrous but also pretty strong.



Is this per tentacle?Beacuse at only 1d4,No one would ever use this.


It's per grapple. So you could constrict with a tentacle on each hold you got. And it does increase with your size - I should note that.



First it called an Hold, Second what dose it do if your not in a hold?


I broke apart the ability into +1/tentacle on grapples and +10 on holds. So... nothing in particular?



I think that it's a good first attempt.It's got prombles but evirone has to start somewhere.

Thanks. I'll keep working on it. Wanted someone to do it for me but impatience won out over laziness. :smalltongue: Would appreciate elaboration on some of your points, not sure if you're criticizing or asking for clarity.

[Kajhera]

Deconstructing the shortspear, it looks like a grellcraft item costs twice as much as normal, but this doesn't impact its masterwork or magical price whatsoever.

It can also deliver paralyzing attempts, and at least the one-handed speary sort extends a tentacle's reach by 5'.

However it seems to modify a tentacle rather than being treated as a weapon, and would therefore not gain iterative attacks.

[Gorgondantess]

So, I must admit: I've become a slight bit stumped with the Pseuodonatural Creature. Oh, it's all working rather well... except for a few of the invocations. I need use-activated invocations for least & lesser: I'm already good on eldritch, and I already have several passive invocations. So if there's anything in particular you'd like to see, now's the time to say it.

Pyroclastic Dragon: Ummm... no. It's significantly more powerful than most of the other dragons. An extra action every turn? When we're talking rocket tag, the cooldown doesn't matter much: it's still really, really powerful.
Go ahead and pump it up a little, but not too much. Or, reduce the power and give it spellcasting as you do so.

[NineThePuma]

@Gorgon:

If you look over the dragons, I'd say they're actually all really dummied down and weak, with very little similarities to the original class.

That could just be me though.

[Mystic Muse]

Pyroclastic Dragon: Ummm... no. It's significantly more powerful than most of the other dragons. An extra action every turn? When we're talking rocket tag, the cooldown doesn't matter much: it's still really, really powerful.
Go ahead and pump it up a little, but not too much. Or, reduce the power and give it spellcasting as you do so.

Never liked the ability much anyway. I'll remove it and replace it with something flavorful but not overpowered.

[Gorgondantess]

@Gorgon:

If you look over the dragons, I'd say they're actually all really dummied down and weak, with very little similarities to the original class.

That could just be me though.

You kidding? Flight, bardic spellcasting, blindsense, a slew of ability score bonuses, lots of natural attacks, great HD, BAB and saves, an almost at will potent damage dealing ability, and you think they're weak? Most of them are pushing too powerful.


Never liked the ability much anyway. I'll remove it and replace it with something flavorful but not overpowered.
You'll have to do more than just that. Anyways, I've actually found that most people seem to prefer the non-spellcasting dragons, as they get cool & unique abilities. Might want to think hard about doing that.

[Tacitus]

Case in point, I like the Pyro as is. >.> Adding spellcasting just makes it like any other dragon.

[NineThePuma]

Pyroclastic Dragon: Ummm... no. It's significantly more powerful than most of the other dragons. An extra action every turn? When we're talking rocket tag, the cooldown doesn't matter much: it's still really, really powerful.

... That ability was already in the pyroclastic...


You kidding? Flight, bardic spellcasting, blindsense, a slew of ability score bonuses, lots of natural attacks, great HD, BAB and saves, an almost at will potent damage dealing ability, and you think they're weak? Most of them are pushing too powerful.

I'm completely serious. The Dragons are just big, loud, and while I'll be the first to admit they're strong, they only barely match up (both scaling and power-wise) with the original critter. I'd be in favor of redoing them all completely.

EDIT: To clarify, I specifically mean the chromatics.

[Gorgondantess]

You'll have to do more than just that. Anyways, I've actually found that most people seem to prefer the non-spellcasting dragons, as they get cool & unique abilities. Might want to think hard about doing that.


Case in point, I like the Pyro as is. >.> Adding spellcasting just makes it like any other dragon.

Support for my theory continues to accrue.:smalltongue:
Really, though, I think the best made dragon on this thread is the Styx Dragon. Consider that.

[Mystic Muse]

One question. If the pyroclastic getting spellcasting and that ability is broken, then isn't it the same case with the blue dragon? While getting another full round action once every five rounds is a very good ability, I think it's eclipsed by the ability to summon a blue dragon cohort 1/day for an entire hour as a swift action. Might be wrong about that but it seems easier to abuse.

[Gorgondantess]

One question. If the pyroclastic getting spellcasting and that ability is broken, then isn't it the same case with the blue dragon? While getting another full round action once every five rounds is a very good ability, I think it's eclipsed by the ability to summon a blue dragon cohort 1/day for an entire hour as a swift action. Might be wrong about that but it seems easier to abuse.

Well, the Pyroclastic gets that ability earlier and gets more abilities than the blue dragon other than that. Though I'm not saying the blue dragon's capstone is good.:smallsigh:

[Mystic Muse]

Well, the Pyroclastic gets that ability earlier and gets more abilities than the blue dragon other than that. Though I'm not saying the blue dragon's capstone is good.:smallsigh:

okay.

Do you think the ability the pyroclastic has should go regardless, or just that it can't have that and spellcasting?

[Lord_Gareth]

So.

Turns out the Metalmaster has an intelligence score sufficient to gain class levels. Anyone up for it?

[NineThePuma]

Hey, apparently a number of older "template" classes don't give "Natural Armor equal to X Ability Modifier" so... how should those be handled?

[Kajhera]

Took my own requirements for the tentacles and applied them, making them somewhat more in line with the hydra. You get the 10 by level 9.

Opinion on the pyroclastic: Don't give it spellcasting, please. Planar dragons should be stronger in non-spellcasting ways. Call me a traditionalist.

[simplename]

I'm completely serious. The Dragons are just big, loud, and while I'll be the first to admit they're strong, they only barely match up (both scaling and power-wise) with the original critter. I'd be in favor of redoing them all completely.

EDIT: To clarify, I specifically mean the chromatics.

That's not the dragon classes being weak. That's the actual dragons being too strong. Even the designers admit the MM dragons are under-CRd.

One of the main points of this project is to tone down monsters that were too powerfull. Just look at the psionic mindflayer, wich casts as a psion 9 when it is itself CR 8 on top of the rest of the abilities! So of course the psionic mind flayer class doesn't cast as a psion of one level higher, even if that's what the original monster did.

[NineThePuma]

My issue is more "when it should be working as a Whrmling, it's got the powers of a young adult." when it comes to scaling >>

[Gorgondantess]

okay.

Do you think the ability the pyroclastic has should go regardless, or just that it can't have that and spellcasting?

The overwhelming consensus seems to be that planar dragons should not have spellcasting. I'll uphold that decision.


Hey, apparently a number of older "template" classes don't give "Natural Armor equal to X Ability Modifier" so... how should those be handled?
However it says they're handled. If they say it gives +2 NA, you get to add 2 to your NA.



I'm completely serious. The Dragons are just big, loud, and while I'll be the first to admit they're strong, they only barely match up (both scaling and power-wise) with the original critter. I'd be in favor of redoing them all completely.

EDIT: To clarify, I specifically mean the chromatics.
I don't see what your problem is. Do you think they should scale identically to how the dragons in the MM scale? I'll tell you right now, that won't work. And it already does, actually... to far too great an extent.

[Tvtyrant]

On the Grellcraft; the Grell have the ability to make a weapon called the Lightning Lance which fires 3d6 rays of electricity 3 times a day, and the Greater Lightning Lance which fires them 5 times a day. They both recharge each day, and anyone none Grell has to make a DC 20 on a UMD check to use them. They are from Lords of Madness (they also have something called a Grell Silver Spear, but its worthless for none Grell).

[Kajhera]

On the Grellcraft; the Grell have the ability to make a weapon called the Lightning Lance which fires 3d6 rays of electricity 3 times a day, and the Greater Lightning Lance which fires them 5 times a day. They both recharge each day, and anyone none Grell has to make a DC 20 on a UMD check to use them. They are from Lords of Madness (they also have something called a Grell Silver Spear, but its worthless for none Grell).

A non-grell can wield it as a normal magic silvered spear. Removing all its bonuses it costs twice as much as a normal spear. I see no reason they couldn't adapt other one-handed and/or light weapons similarly, and not necessarily enchant or silver them... just in case, y'know, your grell warblade wants something other than a silvery spear.

[Gorgondantess]

After due consideration, the Valkyrie is being added to the list.

[Zemro]

New Featured Monster!

Bleakborn: Honestly I can't think of much of anything to say here, so any final changes needed look like they're beyond my abilities.

Though, aside from the Icy Touch ability (which specifies cold damage) it seems that many of his heat draining abilities would be more effective against [Fire] creatures and etc. but don't seem to have typed damage. So it may be worth it go go through and evaluated that sort of interaction.

Thorn: I've taken feedback into consideration and made the following changes to it:


December 3rd
Rolled DR and NA into one ability, renamed 'Protection of the Courts.'
Fixed some spelling errors.
Weapon of Thorns updated to quantify pieces of ammunition effected.
Subduing strikes tweaked to allow for later advancement through PrCs.
Slumbering shots tweak to make less abusable and more straight forward.
Weapon of Barbs changed to make it a bit more versatile and effective.

On the non-lethal damage ability, it's a play and game style thing I think, and while you personally may have no use for it, I can think of characters I've played and games I've seen/played where something like that could be of good benefit. On my method for listing ability scores, if it's disapproved of by everyone in general I'll remove it. I kinda like it myself, because of how my brain works and that I can easily see those sorts of things at a glance at the table.

[AugustNights]

Darling, it is no joke...


This is Osanthropy
The Werebear looks like she's good to go.



Also on the subject of lycanthropes, the third level ability score increase originally represented the transformation begining to affect the character's mind. Generally this would be a wisdom bonus to represent sharpened insticts. While there is room for variation(a werefox might get a bonus to intellegence to represent increased cunning, while a wereeagle might get a charisma bonus to represent its majesty) I think the third level ability bonus should apply to a mental ability. Feel free to do otherwise if you disagree, these are just my thoughts.
Actually I agree almost entirely, however it has been made clear in this project that Ability Score Bonuses gained through monster class levels cannot be any Ability Score that the Monster Class doesn't depend on. Which is unfortunate, but the goals of the project.

As for your Alpha wolf ability... I really like it as is, and to be honest, I feel you could simply give the Werewolf a bonus to commanding/leading its pack while in Hybrid form, and it'd be fine enough incentive to be in Hybrid form for me.


This is Dromosauranthropy
Wereraptor:
Why is the Bite only in Raptor Form?
Why do you have two tables for Ability Score Improvement?
Any particular reason that you have decided to give the wereraptor a flat Standard Action to assume its Alternate form, rather than the

Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action. that was recommended?
Raptor Dexterity is fine, but I think there may be a better name for it, Savage Charge, or something akin.
Other than those little questions, she's looking seaworthy to me.

[Gorgondantess]

Okay, so, I just had an idea: a line of general monster class only feats. For instance, a class with natural armor based on a certain score they might not be pumping too much- say, a harpy with con based natural armor, or a marraenoloth- and take a feat to gain a deflection bonus to AC based on a different stat.
Anybody have any other ideas? I'm not looking for monster abilities, per se- most of those are covered by the MM feats- but things that would especially apply to the way we do these monster classes.

[AustontheGreat1]

Okay, so, I just had an idea: a line of general monster class only feats. For instance, a class with natural armor based on a certain score they might not be pumping too much- say, a harpy with con based natural armor, or a marraenoloth- and take a feat to gain a deflection bonus to AC based on a different stat.
Anybody have any other ideas? I'm not looking for monster abilities, per se- most of those are covered by the MM feats- but things that would especially apply to the way we do these monster classes.

I don't know, Adding effective HD for the purpose of determining abilities? Maybe an not getting abilities that come with HD but making HD higher for stuff like uses and DC's and stuff. Just a thought.

[AugustNights]

Werehydra http://www.stuffoflegend.com/Legends/GMTips/Monsters/SampleMonsters/Hydra/hydra.jpg
Werehyrdra Prerequisites
To become a Werehyrdra, the character must meet the following requirements

Race: Any Medium or Large humanoid or giant.
Special: Must have been injured by the natural attack of another Werehyrdra.

HD: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Alternate form (Hydra),Hydra empathy, Lunar body, Olfactory of a Thousand, Multiple Heads

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Alternate form (Hybrid), Lunar hide

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+0|+1 Strength, Head Regrowth, Growth

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Curse of Magucanthropy, [Hybrid Power]

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|Fast Healing

6th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+1|Greater Hydra[/table]

Skills Points at Each Level: (2+ Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Werehyrdra’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Handle Animal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis). And any others that are appropriate for the Hydra. (Skills Listed in the Hydra’s entry are always appropriate and should be included.)

Proficiencies: A Werehyrdra gains proficiency with its own natural weapons, but not with armor or shields.

Werehyrdra Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Werehyrdra.

Lunar Body: The Werehyrdra retains all of its old racial modifiers and gains the (Shapechanger) subtype. They gain Low-light vision (Some Hydras warrant Darkvison 60 Ft instead of Low-light vision.) if they did not already possess it. A Werehyrdra gains a bonus to natural armor equal to its constitution modifier while in Alternate Form (See Below). While in Humanoid form the Werehyrdra gains a bonus to natural armor equal to half its constitution modifier.

Alternate Form: At first level, the Werehyrdra gains a Medium Hydra Alternate Form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm). While in Hydra form, the Werehyrdra cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of hands, but gains a bite attack that deals 1d4 damage. While in Hydra form the Werehyrdra’s movement speeds are set to a 20 feet base land speed.

Alternate FormThe Werehydra has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the Werehydra’s Humanoid or Giant form, as well as it's Hybrid or Animal Forms. While using alternate form the Werehydra reverts to its Humanoid or Giant form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the Werehydra:

* The Werehydra retains the type and subtype of its Humanoid or Giant form. It gains the size of its Hydra or Hybrid Form. (As Specified). If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the Werehydra gains that subtype as well.
* The Werehydra loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its Humanoid or Giant form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its Humanoid or Giant form not derived from non-monster class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
* The Werehydra gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of Hydra or Hybrid Form. (As Specified).
* The Werehydra retains the special qualities of its Humanoid or Giant form. It does not gain any special qualities of its Hydra or Hybrid Form. (Unless Specified Otherwise.)
* The Werehydra retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its Hydra or Hybrid Form.
* The Werehydra gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form as specified. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its Humanoid or Giant form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas Unlike normal creatures with Alternate Forms the Werehydra gains the hit points increase from any change to its Constitution.
* The Werehydra retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
* Except as described elsewhere, the Werehydra retains all other game statistics of its Humanoid or Giant form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
* The Werehydra retains any spellcasting ability it had in its Humanoid or Giant form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components. Hybrid may speak and has humanoid enough hands if the Werehydra's Humanoid or Giant form has hands.
* The Werehydra is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its Hydra or Hybrid Form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
* Any gear worn or carried by the Werehydra that can’t be worn or carried in its Hydra or Hybrid Form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the Werehydra changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its Hydra or Hybrid Form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

At second level, the Werehyrdra can assume a Medium Hybrid form, between its Hydra form and its Humanoid Form. While in Hybrid form, the Werehyrdra gains the natural attacks of Hydra form, as well as the same movement speeds, however the Werehyrdra retains its abilities to manipulate objects, use weapons, and speak.

Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action.

A Werehyrdra can assume its Alternate Form 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.

For every level in Werehyrdra, or for every two in another class, the Werehyrdra's Alternate Forms improve as shown below.

{table] Werehyrdra Level+ 1/2 HD of other Levels|Ability Improvements
1|+1 Strength
2|+1 Strength, +1 Constitution
3|+2 Strength, +1 Constitution
4|+2 Strength, +2 Constitution
5|+3 Strength, +2 Constitution
6|+3 Strength, +3 Constitution
7|+4 Strength, +3 Constitution
8|+4 Strength, +4 Constitution
9|+5 Strength, +4 Constitution
10|+5 Strength, +5 Constitution
11|+6 Strength, +5 Constitution
12|+6 Strength, +6 Constitution
13| +7 Strength, +6 Constitution [/table]

Hydra Empathy: The Werehyrdra can communicate with Hydras, and other Lizard like Animals, regardless of form and gains a +4 bonus on Charisma based checks to influence such Beasts, however the Werehyrdra gains no such bonus on influencing Animals.

Sense of a Thousand: Beginning at first level the Werehyrdra while in Hydra form gains Scent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#scent), and further gains a bonus on Spot checks equal to half its HD. At second level Sense of a Thousand regardless of form.

Multiple Heads: At first level, While the Werehyrdra is in Hydra or Hybrid Alternate form it grows multiple heads. For every Werehydra HD possessed, and ever two non Werehydra HD possessed, the Werehydra gains one extra[i/] head in Hydra form. The Werehydra gains half this number in Hybrid form. Each head has a bite attack, and the Werehydra may make all of its bite attacks in a full attack action. These bite attacks all add their full Strength modifier to damage.

[i]Lunar Hide At second level, while in either Hydra or Hybrid form, the Werehyrdra gains DR/Silver equal to its HD/2.

Ability Score Increase: At third level the Werehyrdra gains a +1 increase to Strength.

Growth: At third level, a Werehyrdra’s Hydra or Hybrid forms may be Medium or Large. The Werehyrdra chooses its size each time it assumes one of its Alternate Forms.

When A Werehyrdra changes size its natural attacks are re-sized for appropriate damage. For every size increase beyond Medium the Lycanthrope gains a +1 bonus to Natural Armor Class while in Alternate Form.

A Werehyrdraof 12 HD or more may choose to become Huge by expending two normal transformations.

A Werehyrdraof 16 HD or more may choose to become Gargantuan by expending two normal transformations.

A Werehyrdra of 20 HD or more may choose to become Colossal by expending four normal transformations.

Head Regrowth: At third level the Werehyrdra while in Hydra from (And only in Hydra form) instinctively "parries" attacks made at it with its long necks. If the Werehydra takes enough damage to destroy the head, it is considered severed, and two temporary Heads sprout from the stump 1d4+1 rounds later. These temporary heads last for 24 hours. A real head requires 24 hours to grow. 24 hours after a head is destroyed the two temporary heads shrivel up and die, and the ‘real’ head finishes developing.
If a temporary Head is severed, it regrows 2d4 rounds later.
If a temporary or real head is severed with either fire or acid damage, it cannot regrow temporary heads.
Temporary Heads have the same bite attack as a standard head.
If the hydra suffers damage equal to (10+Constitution Modifier) one of its heads is considered severed. If it takes twice this damage, two of its heads are considered severed, if it takes three times this damage three of its heads are considered severed, and so fourth. If a Werehydra’s heads are ever all severed (temporary heads and ‘Real’ heads) it must make a fortitude save against massive damage, and is immediately returned to Humanoid or Giant form, and it must wait until it would have regrown a temporary head before it may reassume it’s Hybrid or Hydra forms.

A Thousand Eyes: At fourth level the Werehyrdra while in Hybrid form (And only Hybrid Form) gains a keen awareness of its surroundings from possessing multiple heads, The Werehydra cannot be flanked by any number of creatures up to the number of heads it possesses+1. Further As a full attack action with all of its heads, it may treat any one creature of its size or smaller as being flanked for one half of its attacks, rounded down.

Curse of Magucanthrope: At fourth level the Werehyrdra can transmit Magucanthropy to other creatures. If a Humanoid or Giant of (the same sizes as the Prerequisites for this class) is hit by the Werehyrdra’s natural attacks while it is in either Alternate form, the struck creature must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Werehyrdra’s HD+ Constitution modifier) or contract Magucanthropy. Magucanthropy Functions exactly as Magucanthropy except as noted above. For more information on

Fast Healing: At fifth level the Werehyrdra gains Fast Healing equal to half its HD while in Hydra or Hybrid form, and Fast Healing equal to one quarter of its HD, rounded down.

Greater Hydra: At Sixth level the Werehyrdra assumes its full potential, and taps into its greater hydra blood-line. It must choose, at this point, one of the following bloodlines (and their respective related elements): Cryohydra (Cold), Pyrohydra (Fire), Electrohydra (Electricity), or Biohydra(Acid) bloodline. In all forms the Werehydra gains Energy resistance equal to its HD against its Bloodline’s related element. Further, in all forms the Werehydra has a breath weapon that deals 1d8 damage per heads it has, this damage is of its bloodlines related element. A successful Reflex save DC (10+1/2 the Werehydra’s HD+ Constitution Modifier) reduces the damage from this breath weapon by half. This breath weapon fills a line 5 feet long per HD it has.

A Chump’s Twopence:

Werehydra is based on the Hydra (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hydra.htm), and my First Magucanthrope!
I don’t know how to feel about ‘A Thousand Eyes’ and ‘Head Regrowth’
The Hydra entry itself is vague and not terribly clearly written.
If you have a better idea for early powers, please, Let me know!
The limit on heads the Werehydra can regrow is now inherent to the fact that temporary heads only regrow 1 head, and ‘real’ heads regrow 2 temporary heads. By this means it cannot regrow more heads than 2x its number of ‘real’ heads.

[Gorgondantess]

I don't know, Adding effective HD for the purpose of determining abilities? Maybe an not getting abilities that come with HD but making HD higher for stuff like uses and DC's and stuff. Just a thought.

Excellent suggestion! In fact, I do believe I'll implement that now.:smallbiggrin:

[Zemro]

Maybe a feat to switch around how their ability scores are distributed or something along those lines?

So a creature that normally receives +4 Str and +2 Dex could instead receive +4 Dex and +2 Str. Really only useful for creatures with multiple stats, but could make for interesting alternative builds.

[Gorgondantess]

Maybe a feat to switch around how their ability scores are distributed or something along those lines?

So a creature that normally receives +4 Str and +2 Dex could instead receive +4 Dex and +2 Str. Really only useful for creatures with multiple stats, but could make for interesting alternative builds.

Hmmm... I'll look into it. Sounds like potential for abuse, though.

[Betropper]

Darling, it is no joke...


This is Osanthropy
The Werebear looks like she's good to go.


Actually I agree almost entirely, however it has been made clear in this project that Ability Score Bonuses gained through monster class levels cannot be any Ability Score that the Monster Class doesn't depend on. Which is unfortunate, but the goals of the project.

As for your Alpha wolf ability... I really like it as is, and to be honest, I feel you could simply give the Werewolf a bonus to commanding/leading its pack while in Hybrid form, and it'd be fine enough incentive to be in Hybrid form for me.


This is Dromosauranthropy
Wereraptor:
Why is the Bite only in Raptor Form?
Why do you have two tables for Ability Score Improvement?
Any particular reason that you have decided to give the wereraptor a flat Standard Action to assume its Alternate form, rather than the
that was recommended?
Raptor Dexterity is fine, but I think there may be a better name for it, Savage Charge, or something akin.
Other than those little questions, she's looking seaworthy to me.


Done, the reason I had bite like that by the way was becausue I made this before the Lycanthrope changes and wanted some balance.

[Starsign]

May I make another request? This time I'd like to see the Mohrg as a class, hopefully one that can be of good alignment if that player wants. :smallsmile:

[Gorgondantess]

May I make another request? This time I'd like to see the Mohrg as a class, hopefully one that can be of good alignment if that player wants. :smallsmile:

If it's a base class and it has alignment requirements, it won't get past inspection.
Anyways, it's a hard class to make, having relatively little to it... but I'll add it to the list. As Hyudra has proven, that doesn't always matter.

[AustontheGreat1]

While your adding things to the list, I'd like to request the Protean Scourge (MMIII p.127) CR 12. The monster is a Gish with a minor in shapechanging, and the ability to split into two copies of itself each capable of fighting and casting.

Also, I hate to nag, but the Ragewalker has been updated a little and those updates are awaiting inspection. I posted a note in the first page of the new thread but it seems to have been over-looked.

[Gorgondantess]

While your adding things to the list, I'd like to request the Protean Scourge (MMIII p.127) CR 12. The monster is a Gish with a minor in shapechanging, and the ability to split into two copies of itself each capable of fighting and casting.
Hmmm... sounds interesting. Will add.


Also, I hate to nag, but the Ragewalker has been updated a little and those updates are awaiting inspection. I posted a note in the first page of the new thread but it seems to have been over-looked.

Well, under the new endorsement system this means that y'all needs ta get crackin' on reviewing the Ragewalker!

[Gorgondantess]

Pseudonatural Creature
(still preview)
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx295/AugustNight/lf-9.jpg
As an epic template, taking the pseudonatural template has several requisites:

At least 5 HD in any monster class
OR
5th level spellcasting in any spellcasting class
OR
Knowledge: The Planes 9 ranks

As well as any two of:
Knowledge: Dungeoneering 6 ranks.
OR
Base will save +3
OR
Any aberrant feat
OR
Willing Deformity: Madness
OR
Any from the first list

Cannot be a construct or undead.

Hit Dice: d6
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Invocations

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2|Far Realms Touched, Warp +3d6, Invocations (Least)|2|

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3|Farspawn, Warp +1d6, Invocations (Lesser or Least)|3|

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3|Eldritch Hide, +1 Cha|3|

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|Lesser Alternate Form, Warp +1d6|4|

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|Warp Augmentation, +1 Con|4|

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+5|Invocations (Least, Lesser, or Greater), Warp +1d6, +1 Cha|5|

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+5|Warp Augmentation, Greater Alternate Form|5|

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6|Channeling, Warp +1d6|6|

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6|Warp Augmentation, +1 Cha|6|

10th|
+7/+1|
+7|
+7|
+7|Horrid Alternate Form, Warp +1d6|7|

11th|
+8/+1|
+7|
+7|
+7|Warp Augmentation, +1 Con|7|

12th|
+9/+1|
+8|
+8|
+8|Invocations (Least, Lesser, Greater, or Eldritch), Warp +1d6|8|

13th|
+9/+1|
+8|
+8|
+8|Warp Augmentation, Far Realms Apotheosis, Warp +1d6, +1 Cha|9|[/table]

Class Skills
The Pseudonatural Creature's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Planes) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int mod

Proficiencies: The Pseudonatural Creature gains proficiency with the dagger & kukri: both items commonly used in rituals.

Far Realms Touched: Unlike most other monster classes, the Pseudonatural Creature does not lose its previous racial traits. Instead it gains the Aberration type and Darkvision 60'.

Warp (su): The most basic ability the Pseudonatural Creature learns is to channel their raw energy in a beam of energy, literally unmaking the fabric of reality.
A Warp is a ranged touch attack with a range of 45'. It allows no saving throw nor spell resistance, being of a stuff beyond the coil of this dimension.
Warp begins at 3d6 damage, and increases by 1d6 damage as shown on the table- every even level and at level 13.

Invocations: The Pseudonatural Creature learns a few ways to direct the energies of their heritage in a more controlled form, much as a Warlock would channel the powers of hell, though much stranger.
A Pseudonatural's invocations are spell-like abilities; using one is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. It can be disrupted much like a spell can be ruined during casting, and can be cast defensively. Some Pseudonatural invocations are subject to spell resistance, unless specified otherwise. A Pseudonatural's CL with her invocations is equal to her levels in Pseudonatural plus her levels in any one other class of her choice.
The DC of an Invocation is 10+1/2 Pseudonatural CL+ Charisma modifier. Her invocations are of more flexible stuff than a warlock's: so long as she can channel the energies of the Far Realms effectively enough, there is no limit to how powerful the ability can be.
The four grades of Invocations, in order of their relative power, are Least, Lesser, Greater, and Eldritch. A Pseudonatural Creature begins with knowledge of two Least Invocations. As a Pseudonatural Creature gains levels, she learns new Invocations, as summarized on the table above. A list of available Invocations can be found at the bottom of the page.

Farspawn: At 2nd level, the Pseudonatural Creature gains resistance to Acid & Electricity and a bonus to saves against poison equal to its HD, as well as blindsight out to 5' per 2 HD.

Eldritch Hide: At 3rd level, the Pseudonatural Creature gains DR/Magic & Slashing equal to 1/2 HD and SR of 11+HD.

Lesser Alternate Form: At 4th level, the Pseudonatural Creature may, as a full round action, transform into a hideous, warped form. While in this form, the pseudonatural creature cannot speak and is incapable of fine manipulation.
In this form, enemies take a -1 morale penalty to attacks against the Pseudonatural Creature for each point of its charisma modifier.
Additionally, while in this form the Pseudonatural Creature gains a number of tentacle attacks equal to her HD/3, up to 6 tentacles at 18 HD. These tentacles deal a base of 1d6+1/2 str mod and have a reach of 10 feet for a medium creature.

Warp Augmentation: At 5th level and every other level thereafter, the Pseudonatural Creature learns a way to augment its warp ability. She may initially only apply one augmentation at a time.
Eldritch Bolt: Warp is no longer a touch attack, but the Pseudonatural Creature may make iterative attacks with it.

Non-Euclidean Warp: Opponents lose their dexterity bonus to AC against the Pseudonatural Creature's Warp.

Eldritch Wave: The range of the Warp becomes a 30' cone; instead of making a ranged touch attack, enemies in the area of the Warp may make a reflex save for half damage. Opponents who succeed on the save needn't make any other saves against the warp.

Reality Tearing Warp: The Pseudonatural Creature may make enemies struck by Warp to make a will save or be shaken for the rest of the encounter, or make a fortitude save or be sickened for 3 rounds, or make a reflex save or have their movement speed halved for 3 rounds.

Greater Reality Tearing Warp:
(Requires Reality Tearing Warp)
The Pseudonatural Creature may make enemies struck by Warp to make a will save or be dazed for 2 rounds, or make a fortitude save or be nauseated for 3 rounds, or make a reflex save or be pushed 20' in any direction (straight up is possible) and when landing be knocked prone.

Eldritch Reality Tearing Warp:
(Requires Greater Reality Tearing Warp)
The Pseudonatural Creature may make enemies struck by Warp to make a will save or cower for 3 rounds, or make a fortitude save or be paralyzed for 2 rounds, or make a reflex save or convulse, knocked prone, flatfooted & unable to take actions for 1 round.

Warp Versatility:
(Requires Reality Tearing Warp and any one other augmentation)
When using Warp, the Pseudonatural Creature may now use any version of Reality Tearing Warp AND one other Augmentation of her choice.

Greater Warp:
Warp increases to a range of 60' and the Pseudonatural Creature adds its charisma modifier to warp damage.

Greater Alternate Form: At 7th level, when entering its alternate form the Pseudonatural Creature gains fortification equal to 5% per HD (becoming immune to precision damage at 20 HD) and gains improved grab with its tentacle attacks.

Channeling (su): As a move action no more than once per day, the Pseudonatural can forcibly rip open the doorway to the Far Realms, centered on herself. Its pure, unadulterated powers flow into her, but at cost to her very existence.
When activating this ability, she chooses a dice to roll- 2d3, 1d8, 1d10, or 1d12. The result gives the duration in rounds. For every round she remains in her channeling state, she takes 1d3-1 wisdom burn (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#abilityBurn) (minimum 0). This effect cannot be ended voluntarily- it will run its course, and the Pseudonatural Creature will suffer the backlash.
While the effects of the Channeling are devastating on her psyche, it is equally devastating on her enemies. For the duration, she gains a +2 bonus to all invocation & warp DCs, Flight of 90' with perfect maneuverability as an extraordinary ability, and as a standard action every round can both use Warp & cast an invocation. In addition, all invocations that would normally be affected by SR get +10 to their spell penetration. Finally, her spells & invocations have a 50% chance to still work when cast into an antimagic field or against a creature normally immune to magic, though she is still shut down if physically within the field of an AMF.
If the Pseudonatural is reduced to 0 wisdom this way, the Far Realms take over. The duration will run its course, over which time the Pseudonatural Creature is considered confused. In the meantime, she begins to expel blood and viscera from every orifice, including her pores and eyes. Once it has run its course, she implodes into the gate which spits her back out seconds later, only for the most part annihilated, consumed by the energies of the Far Realms; the corpse is, for the most part, quite gone.
The only effect that can stop this is a wish, miracle, or other ability of similar power. In which case, the Channeling ends immediately and the Pseudonatural Creature falls to the ground, comatose until all her wisdom burn heals. Only epic magic can pull a Pseudonatural out of a channeling unharmed.

Horrid Alternate Form: When grappling with an opponent while in alternate form, the Pseudonatural Creature deals 1 constitution drain per 3 HD it has for every successful grappling check it makes. If the enemy is immune to constitution damage, it deals wisdom drain instead.

Far Realms Apotheosis: At 13th level, the Pseudonatural Creature truly becomes an entity of the far realms.
Its DR improves to Epic & Slashing, and it becomes an outsider with the [Far Realms] subtype. This allows it to be considered an aberration or an outsider, whichever one is more beneficial at the type, and is considered extraplanar outside of the Far Realms.
In addition, at any time the Pseudonatural Creature is in its alternate form it begins to become far less Euclidean. This is similar to the effects of a blink spell, but with one key difference: rather than 'blinking' back and forth between the ethereal plane and the material plane, the Pseudonatural Creature more fades back and forth between the material plane and the folds between realities.

It grants a 50% concealment; blind fight doesn't help this, as you're just not there half the time. Neither does see invisibility; however, true seeing will reduce the concealment to 20%, but those viewing the Pseudonatural Creature through true seeing take the morale penalty to attacks as if it were in its alternate form (double if it really is in its alternate form).

An individually targeted spell has a 50% chance to fail outright. Force effects and most other spells that would normally strike an ethereal creature only suffer a 20% failure chance, while abjurations that specifically target extraplanar creatures, such as dismissal, suffer no failure chance at all.

The Pseudonatural only takes 50% damage from area attacks, and strikes as an invisible creature.

The Pseudonatural only takes half damage from falling, and can step through solid objects. For every 5 feet of solid material she walks through, there is a 50% chance she becomes material right there, in the object, and is shunted to the nearest open space, taking 1d6 damage per 5 feet.

Feat:
Grinning Person, Hidden Monster:
Prerequisites: Pseudonatural Creature alternate form ability.
You gain all the the effects of the alternate form without actually having to transform.

Invocations:
Invocations are separated into two parts: Base and Advancement. Base invocations are usually use-activated SLAs; advancement invocations improve the abilities of a base invocation. If the invocation listed under the advancement invocation has not been taken, then that advancement invocation does nothing.

Least Invocations:

Base:

Implexsion:
...Your staff is broken.
2nd level
1 standard action
Close range
Immediate
Any object within range implodes on itself, matter compacting and twisting into strange forms, then immediately explodes into bits unrecognizable for what it once was. Magical items are allowed a saving throw against this effect.
As most items are made up of a decent amount of carbon and during the implosion the item undergoes a vast amount of force and pressure, in the remaining pieces an amount of diamond dust of value equal to one half the original obect's gp can be collected.

Dread Curse of A*******:
A*******!
2nd level [sonic], [mind-affecting]
1 standard action
All within earshot.
1d4 rounds
By speaking the name of A*******, the Dread Prince that resides at the center of the universe, the Pseudonatural creature can degrade the sanity of all who can hear. Any who hears the Curse must make a will save or become confused 1d4 rounds and take an amount of wisdom drain equal to 4 minus the number of rounds they were confused (minimum 0); the mind handles the name much in the same way the body handles an ingested toxin- either by violent release, or by some severe damage. Those immune to mind affecting are immune to the confusion, but not the wisdom drain.
Intelligent aberrations and outsiders do not suffer from the confusion either- however, they respond to the dread words with fear. Instilled in all these creatures is a healthy fear of the name, and those who wield it: when using the Dread Curse against one of these creatures, whether or not they fail their save the Pseudonatural Creature may make a free intimidate check against them with a +5 bonus. If they choose to demoralize, the enemy is shaken for the duration of the encounter instead of one round.

All Awareness:
I see you...
1st level
1 standard action
Personal
24 Hours
The Pseudonatural Creature becomes able to see in a full circle around its head. It cannot be flanked, gains a +4 bonus to all spot checks and a +1 insight bonus to AC.

Many Voiced:
1st level
1 standard action
Personal
24 Hours
The Pseudonatural Creature takes on many voices at once- of all sexes, pitches, ages and tones. It is both hard to read into and highly disconcerting, giving her a +7 bonus to both bluff and intimidate checks. It also gives a +1 bonus to the DC of Dread Curse of A******.


Comments:
Invocations will be updated periodically over the next week or so. This is just a teaser. Any suggestions on use-activated invocations of the lesser-greater range would be greatly appreciated. I'll be eventually adding a 20 level monster class to this that can be summoned as a permanent cohort by taking certain invocations. Oh, and base monster has been updated. Stay tuned!

[Lord_Gareth]

So.

Turns out the Metalmaster has an intelligence score sufficient to gain class levels. Anyone up for it?

Reposting FTW

[Volthawk]

Planar Creature
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/planar_gallery/82538.jpg


Prerequisite: Any creature of a type other than Construct or Outsider native to an aligned plane. 'Native alignment' means the alignment of your native plane.

HD: d8
{table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 0|+0|+2 | + 2| Planar Nature, Smite, Favoured Plane
2|+ 1|+0|+3 | + 3| Planar Body, Planar Affinity, Planar Magic
[/table]

Skills: 4 + Intelligence modifier per level, Class skills are Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Use Rope

Proficiencies: None

Features:
Planar Nature:Unlike other monster classes, the Planar Creature doesn't lose his racial ability modifiers, and retains his own type, apart from animals, who gain the Magical Beast type. Planar creatures encountered on the Material Plane have the extraplanar subtype. It gains darkvision out to 60ft.

Smite: A number of times per day equal to 1+1/5HD, an Anarchic Creature can make a normal melee attack that deals extra damage equal to its HD and has a bonus to attack equal to 1/2HD against a foe of an alignment opposite to its native alignment,. At 10HD, any critical threat by a smite is automatically confirmed. Smites bypass DR as if the weapon was aligned with the Planar Creature's native alignment.

Favoured Plane: The Planar Creature has bonus equal to 1/2HD on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills in planes with it's native alignment. It may make Knowledge (the planes) checks as if it had trained in the skill if the question is related to it's plane with it's native alignment, and applies the skill bonus on checks dealing with its native alignment. Likewise, it gets a bonus equal to 1/4HD on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls against any creature wiith the same native alignment.

Aligned Body The Planar Creature gains DR/magic equal to a third of it's HD, spell resistance equal to 12+HD and resistance to acid, cold, electricity, fire and sonic equal to 1/3 its HD. At 10HD, the DR is beaten by an alignment opposite that of the Planar Creature's native alignment instead of magic.

Planar Affinity: The Planar creature casts all spells with the same descriptor as their native alignment at +1 CL, increasing by 1 for every 4HD it has. Additionally, at 6HD, the Planar Creature gains the subtype of their native alignment, and at 12HD gains the Outsider type.

Planar Magic: The Planar Creature can cast spells from the domain of their native alignment as spell-like abilities, with caster level equalling HD and a save DC of 10+1/2HD
+Cha mod. It can cast spells of a level equal to 1/2 it's HD, and each can be used a number of times equal to it's HD divided by the level of the spell, rounding down.


Comments:

Well, I made it into a class for all alignments, so the abilities depend on the plane the creature came from (not sure how to word it better, though). I beefed up Smite a bit, and added in Favoured Plane (probably won't come up much, but I thought it's a ice little thing to have) and Planar Magic, so it has a few more options.

[Lix Lorn]

Automatically threatening a crit is quiet powerful... but I'm not an expert on balance. It just immediately makes me go 'whoah!'

[mootoall]

Automatically threatening a crit is quiet powerful... but I'm not an expert on balance. It just immediately makes me go 'whoah!'

Yeah, but it has an extremely low use/day. I'd say it's balanced. Might want to specify if it still threatens a crit on a nat 1 and whether or not they decide to use it before or after their attack roll.

[Gorgondantess]

Automatically threatening a crit is quiet powerful... but I'm not an expert on balance. It just immediately makes me go 'whoah!'

I concur. That is a capstone ability, and not a level 1 dip ability. I can see a lot of cheese going down with that with a no-save magical item ability that only functions on a crit...

Lord Gareth:
Wwwwwelp, Metalmaster's added to the waiting list. Not much else one can do now.

And does anybody have any suggestions for Pseudonatural Creature invocations? Anybody at all?

[Volthawk]

I concur. That is a capstone ability, and not a level 1 dip ability. I can see a lot of cheese going down with that with a no-save magical item ability that only functions on a crit...

Lord Gareth:
Wwwwwelp, Metalmaster's added to the waiting list. Not much else one can do now.

And does anybody have any suggestions for Pseudonatural Creature invocations? Anybody at all?

Yeah, that was something I wasn't sure about, although you would still have to confirm it. But still, it's gone now.

[Lix Lorn]

Yeah, that was something I wasn't sure about, although you would still have to confirm it. But still, it's gone now.
Why don't you swap it round and say that Smites automatically confirm if they crit?

[Gorgondantess]

Why don't you swap it round and say that Smites automatically confirm if they crit?

An excellent suggestion. I was about to say the same thing myself. Many underestimate the power of automatically confirming critical threats.

[AugustNights]

Wereraptor and Werebear pass by my look over. Not certain if I'm supposed to Endorse, or how this exactly works.

Edit: One issue on the Wereraptor, Its saves are wonky. I recommend strong Fortitude and Reflex, and a Weak Will.

[Volthawk]

Why don't you swap it round and say that Smites automatically confirm if they crit?

Yeah, that works. What about the rest of it?

[NineThePuma]

And does anybody have any suggestions for Pseudonatural Creature invocations? Anybody at all?

You've got it set such that it's an "epic template" but it doesn't actually have any sort of epic requirement. Might want to fix that, cause I can meet the entry requirements pretty early.

[Gorgondantess]

You've got it set such that it's an "epic template" but it doesn't actually have any sort of epic requirement. Might want to fix that, cause I can meet the entry requirements pretty early.

I don't deal with epic levels. That's intentional. However, by the time that you complete it, you'll be epic or near epic. That's also intentional. Trust me, I know what I'm doing- the class is able to be entered by 5th level, or 6th if you take the skill point requirement.


Smite: A number of times per day equal to 1+1/5HD, an Anarchic Creature
Copypasta error.

Anyways... I'd like you to change it from native plane to native alignment, and then favoured plane should apply to all planes with that alignment (for example, a good aligned planar creature would get the favored alignment bonus in every plane from Arcadia to Ysgard, and then any other planes dominantly good). Set up a definition before the actual table.

[Volthawk]

Copypasta error.


Crud. Thought I dealt with all of those.



Anyways... I'd like you to change it from native plane to native alignment, and then favoured plane should apply to all planes with that alignment (for example, a good aligned planar creature would get the favored alignment bonus in every plane from Arcadia to Ysgard, and then any other planes dominantly good). Set up a definition before the actual table.

Yeah, like I said, I wasn't sure how to define all that stuff.

[Betropper]

Wereraptor and Werebear pass by my look over. Not certain if I'm supposed to Endorse, or how this exactly works.

Edit: One issue on the Wereraptor, Its saves are wonky. I recommend strong Fortitude and Reflex, and a Weak Will.

Done. Although I might be off on the saves, IDK. :smallfrown:

[AugustNights]

Done. Although I might be off on the saves, IDK. :smallfrown:

Standard Strong save progression would be:
2-3-3-4

Standard Weak save progression would be:
0-0-1-1

[Betropper]

Thanks, got them right.

[Mystic Muse]

Gorgon, I'd like to ask you a question. You said the Styx dragon was your favorite out of the dragons correct? Why exactly? Once I finish Illurien (If ever, I've been somewhat occupied lately.) I might do a few of the other planar dragons.

EDIT: Also, two things. One, the 19th level ability of the silver dragon, at least to me, sounds more like a capstone and two, the Styx dragon gets a land speed that scales and both a swim speed and a burrow speed equal to the "Base" land speed. Does this mean the original 40 feet per round or do they scale as well? There's an error or two in the class that's bothering me and I figured I'd fix that too.

I think there should also be an option in the planar dragons to set a specific plane as "Home" at the start which can't be changed short of things like limited wish. This way, they can be used in games that don't take place in Styx or Gehenna or wherever.

[Gorgondantess]

Gorgon, I'd like to ask you a question. You said the Styx dragon was your favorite out of the dragons correct? Why exactly? Once I finish Illurien (If ever, I've been somewhat occupied lately.) I might do a few of the other planar dragons.

Well, for one, it's unique. For two, it's got a PERFECT balance. For three, it has a lot of cool abilities, and pretty much every level is something to look forwards to. For four, Hyudra's disease thing is brilliant. For five, it's just cool.
The reason is my favorite dragon is because there's nothing specific I like about it. I like everything about it.
Well, mostly everything, but the problems I have with it, I have with every single other dragon.
If I had to find anything specific? It's that it's in stark contrast with all the other dragons in one way: rather than the later levels being given a bunch of throwaway filler, it's chock-full of interesting and cool abilities.

[Mystic Muse]

Well, for one, it's unique. For two, it's got a PERFECT balance. For three, it has a lot of cool abilities, and pretty much every level is something to look forwards to. For four, Hyudra's disease thing is brilliant. For five, it's just cool.
The reason is my favorite dragon is because there's nothing specific I like about it. I like everything about it.
Well, mostly everything, but the problems I have with it, I have with every single other dragon.
If I had to find anything specific? It's that it's in stark contrast with all the other dragons in one way: rather than the later levels being given a bunch of throwaway filler, it's chock-full of interesting and cool abilities.

I'll try to pull that off with any future dragons and monster classes.

I'm currently playing in a campaign as a silver dragon. I'll tell you my experiences as such as it moves along. Right now, I'm level 2, and having three attacks hasn't actually been that big a deal in terms of balance.

If it's not a problem, can you address the two other things I edited in my post?

[Gorgondantess]

EDIT: Also, two things. One, the 19th level ability of the silver dragon, at least to me, sounds more like a capstone
Me too. If you want to change it, go right ahead.

and two, the Styx dragon gets a land speed that scales and both a swim speed and a burrow speed equal to the "Base" land speed. Does this mean the original 40 feet per round or do they scale as well? There's an error or two in the class that's bothering me and I figured I'd fix that too.
I'd rule that it scales with the land speed: 90% sure on that interpretation.
If you want to fix them, again, go right ahead.


I think there should also be an option in the planar dragons to set a specific plane as "Home" at the start which can't be changed short of things like limited wish. This way, they can be used in games that don't take place in Styx or Gehenna or wherever.
I don't. It's a planar dragon for a reason: unless it has any abilities derived from its "home plane", then a Styx Dragon should be from the river Styx.

[Mystic Muse]

I don't. It's a planar dragon for a reason: unless it has any abilities derived from its "home plane", then a Styx Dragon should be from the river Styx.

Maybe it's just me, but It seems a little odd for it to be your favorite dragon, and yet be unusable in a ton of campaigns since the dragons have no way to get to any other plane.

Maybe I just explained my idea terribly, terribly bad?

[Gorgondantess]

Maybe it's just me, but It seems a little odd for it to be your favorite dragon, and yet be unusable in a ton of campaigns since the dragons have no way to get to any other plane.

Maybe I just explained my idea terribly, terribly bad?

You do realize that the planes are laced with portals upon portals, and that one can stumble into them at any time?

[Mystic Muse]

You do realize that the planes are laced with portals upon portals, and that one can stumble into them at any time?

I was not aware of that, no.:smallredface:

[Gorgondantess]

I was not aware of that, no.:smallredface:

Try playing Planescape: Torment some time.:smallcool:
(No, seriously, play it. It's amazing.)

[Tacitus]

I concur, play it.

Anywho, on topic, would something like a Phrenic creature (+2 LA and +1/+2/+3 CR depending on HD) be too... I don't know, simple(?) to make an Improved Monster Class out of, or would ya'll take it as a challenge to make something that just gives stats and PLAs into something cool?

[Gorgondantess]

Anywho, on topic, would something like a Phrenic creature (+2 LA and +1/+2/+3 CR depending on HD) be too... I don't know, simple(?) to make an Improved Monster Class out of, or would ya'll take it as a challenge to make something that just gives stats and PLAs into something cool?

If you want to make it, fine. If not, would you like me to put it on the wait list?

[Mystic Muse]

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff25/azrael_nox/Fantasy%20Creatures/dragon-styx.jpg

STYX DRAGON


HD: D12
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1 |+1|+2|+0|+2| Stygian Body, Styx Adaptation, Fog Cloud
2|+2|+3|+0|+3| Keen Senses, Stygian Breath
3|+3|+3|+1|+3| Blindsense 60 feet, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
4|+4|+4|+1|+4| Curse Water, Summon From the Deeps, +1 Charisma
5|+5|+4|+1|+4| Improved Breath Weapon, Improved tail blades
6|+6|+5|+2|+5| Deeper Darkness, Stinking Cloud
7|+7|+5|+2|+5| Constrict, Improved Grapple, Diseased Tail Blades
8|+8|+6|+2|+6| Growth, Mind Fog, Feeblemind, +1 Charisma
9|+9|+6|+3|+6| Stygian Grab, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
10|+10|+7|+3|+7| Improved Breath, Hold Monster
11|+11|+7|+3|+7| Stygian Scales, Stygian Influence, Stygian Corruption
12|+12|+8|+4|+8| Frightful Presence, Growth, Crush.
13|+13|+8|+4|+8| Bonus Feat, +1 Charisma
14|+14|+9|+4|+9| Stupefying Breath, +1 strength +1 Constitution
15|+15|+9|+5|+9| Disease Ascension, Bonus Feat
16|+16|+10|+5|+10| Horrid Wilting, Corrosion, +1 Charisma
17|+17|+10|+5|+10| Stygian Bite +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
18|+18|+11|+6|+11| Bonus Feat, Diseased Body, +1 Strength, +1 charisma
19|+19|+11|+6|+11|Growth, Tail Sweep, +1 strength, +1 Constitution, Pestilence
20|+20|+12|+6|+12 |Disease Perfection, Bonus Feat, +1 Strength, +1 Charisma, +1 Constitution
[/table]

6 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, jump, spot, listen, appraise, bluff, intimidate, Knowledge(any), spellcraft.

Proficiencies: a Styx dragon isn't proficient with any armor or weapons, besides his own natural weapons

Features:
Stygian Body: The Styx dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, Bite 1d8 damage, 2 tail blades for 1d8 damage each, (They are secondary attacks and both are separate attacks) a 40 foot base land speed which starts increasing by 10 every hit dice after its fourth hit dice and medium size. In addition, the Styx dragon gains a swim speed equal to their base land speed, and a burrow speed equal to half their base speed. Both the burrow and swim speeds scale with land speed.

The tail blades only add your strength modifier to damage until level 5 at which point it becomes 1 and a half strength modifier

The Styx dragon's arms are vestigial and cannot be used for any purpose.

The Styx dragon also gets a natural armor bonus equal to 1+Constitution modifier. Whenever the Styx dragon grows one size category, his natural armor increases by a further 1.

Styx Adaptation: The Styx dragon has complete immunity to poisons and diseases, magic or mundane. In addition, the dragon can breathe in water, Is not hampered in combat by being in an aquatic environment, and is immune to the harmful effects of the river Styx and cannot be affected by the disease ascension or disease perfection abilities of other Styx dragons.

Styx dragon SLAs: At 1st level Fog Cloud SLA 2/day per HD.

At 4th level Curse Water SLA 2/day per HD.

At 6th level Stinking Cloud and Deeper Darkness 1/day per HD.

At 8th level Mind Fog and Feeblemind 1/day per 2 HD.

At 10th level Hold Monster 1/day for each 5 HD.

At 16th level Horrid Wilting 1/day for each 4 HD.

Keen Senses: At second level, the Styx dragon's senses become far stronger. The Styx dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet

Stygian Breath: At second level the Styx dragon gains a breath weapon. The breath weapon is a 60 foot line dealing 1d6 acid damage/HD, with a reflex save DC of 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier for half and takes 1d4 rounds to recharge. The line increases by 10 feet for every extra hit die the dragon gains. In addition, at 5th level the damaging effects of the line cling to enemies. The next round the acid deals half the damage it dealt the previous round. At tenth level it affects them again dealing one quarter the damage it originally dealt.

Blindsense: At third level the dragon gains Blindsense as the normal ability, range 60 feet.

Ability Increase: The Styx dragon gains

+1 Strength at levels 3, 9, 14, 17,18, 19, 20

+1 Constitution at levels 3, 9, 14, 17, 19, 20

+1 Charisma at levels 4, 8, 13, 16,18, 20

For a total of +7 Strength, + 6 Constitution and + 6 Charisma at level 20.


Summon From the Deeps:At 4th level, the Styx dragon can use Summon Monster Y, where Y it's half the Styx Dragon's HD, as a SLA 1/day per HD.

Creatures summoned this way have a swim speed equal to their best speed and gain the Styx Adaptation ability. If they already had a swim speed it is doubled.

Diseased Tail blades: At 7th level anybody who is hit by the tail blades must succeed on a Fortitude save equal to the Dragon's breath weapon save DC or contract a disease. The player must choose which disease this is once he gets this ability and the ability cannot be changed after this. There are several diseases on Page 292 of the dungeon master's guide or they can choose Stygian wasting from Draconomicon.

Improved Grapple:at 7th level the Styx dragon gains the improved grapple feat regardless of whether or not they meet the prerequisites.

Constrict: At 7th level, after the Styx dragon makes a successful grapple check, it can make a constrict attack. The constrict attack deals twice the tail blade's damage as bludgeoning damage.

Growth:At 8th level the Dragon grows to large size. At 12th he grows to huge and at 19th he grows to gargantuan. His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.


Stygian Grab: At 9th level the Styx dragon gains the improved grab extraordinary ability. To use this ability a Styx dragon must hit an enemy that is at least one size category smaller than him with his tail blades attack. The dragon can immediately make a Grapple check and if it's successful can use it's constrict ability in the same turn. In addition, this ability ignores freedom of movement effects.

Stygian Scales: At 11th level the Styx dragon gains DR/magic and good equal to half its total HD and SR equal to its total HD plus 11

Stygian Influence: After swimming through the river Styx for centuries the planes they swim through have affected the dragon's attacks. At 12th level The Dragon can now bypass any form of damage reduction that can be bypassed by any evil alignment as if their weapons were attuned to that alignment.


Stygian Corruption: No mind can resist the river Styx. The Stygian dragon can now affect creatures immune to mind affecting with his Mind Affecting SLAs, but those creatures receive a +4 bonus on their saves.

Crush: At 12th level the dragon can make a crush attack dealing 2d8 damage base, already taking in account huge size
This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).

A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon’s body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don’t escape.

A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down).

Frightful Presence: at 12th level the dragon gains frightful presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks or charges. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet × half the dragon's level are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected enemy that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Charisma modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Bonus Feat: At levels 13, 15 and 20 the Styx Dragon gains Extraordinary disease as a bonus feat (see after this monster entry) or a fighter bonus feat for which it qualifies.


Stupefying Breath: At 14th level the dragon gains an additional breath weapon. The breath is a cone with a radius of 30 feet+5 feet per HD of the dragon and deals 1 intelligence damage for every 4 HD of the dragon. The damage can be halved with an appropriate fortitude save of DC10+Constitution Modifier+Half its HD. The breath weapon recharges in 1d4 rounds.

Disease Ascension: At 15th level, the dragon can now bypass immunity to disease derived from class features (Such as the Paladin's divine health) and any ability not derived from a creature's type. However, Styx dragons cannot affect each other with this ability. In addition, the damage die for the disease affecting its tail blades increases one size.

Corrosion: At 16th level, the Stygian Dragon's natural weapons deal an additional 1d8 Acid Damage. This Damage increases one die step for every 4 HD gained from here.

Stygian Bite: At level 17 the Styx Dragon's bite is a weapon to be feared. The Dragon can now channel its Stupefying breath weapon into its bite attack to be used along with it. This still counts as a use of the breath weapon. Channeling the breath weapon is a swift action.

Disease Body: At 18th level all of the Styx Dragon's natural weapons can transmit diseases as his tail.

Tail Sweep:At 19th level this special attack allows a dragon of at least Gargantuan size to sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet (or 40 feet for a Colossal dragon), extending from an intersection on the edge of the dragon’s space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are four or more size categories smaller than the dragon. A tail sweep automatically deals 2d6 plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon).

Pestilence:At 19th level the Styx Dragon can contaminate anything it touches. As a full round action the Styx dragon can "rub" the area where he's standing or a number of objects equal to his Con modifier. The next creature stepping on that area or touching the object willingly receives a disease as if hit by the Styx's dragon natural weapons, same Fort Save to resist. The disease must be chosen when the Styx Dragon rubs. The effect is permanent but each contaminated square /object can only try to infect one creature per HD. A rogue can spot and safely "clean" an object with his trap sense, search and disable DCs are 10+HD+Constitution modifier.

Disease Perfection Su: At 20th level, the Styx dragon's affinity for disease has reached it's peak. From this point on, the dragon's disease based abilities* affect even those normally immune to them. The dragon now bypasses any immunity unless the being is a Styx dragon (or summoned by a Styx Dragon). In addition, anything that is not normally immune to disease receives no save and the saves on the disease are now equal to the save of the dragon's breath weapon.

*The abilities that Disease Ascension and Perfection apply to are the dragon's natural weapons, Pestilence, and any poison or diseased based SLAs

[Gorgondantess]

That would require that I had the money to buy it. :smalltongue:
I've found it for less than a dollar in multiple places. YOU HAVE NO EXCUSE.:smallfurious:
:smalltongue:
Anyways, just what changes did you make to the Styx? Also, if that's supposed to go on the list, it needs to be separate from other comments. >.>

[Mystic Muse]

Try playing Planescape: Torment some time.:smallcool:
(No, seriously, play it. It's amazing.)

That would require that I had the money to buy it. :smalltongue: (Or that I weren't occupied with KOTOR 2)


I've found it for less than a dollar in multiple places. YOU HAVE NO EXCUSE.:smallfurious:
:smalltongue:
Anyways, just what changes did you make to the Styx?


out of curiosity, where did you find that? I don't think best buy would have it for that, Mcvan's doesn't seem to stock computer games, at least not that I've seen, and certainly not for that cheap, and it's the same with Gamestop.

The SLAs were mentioned twice so I took that out, changed the disease ascension and perfection to apply to the pestilence ability and all natural weapons (Since the disease effect eventually applies to all two of them.:smalltongue:) and clarified the way the movement works.

Unless somebody else already made those changes of course.

EDIT: I also made each of the abilities (Constitution, Strength and Charisma) fully spelled out because I'm picky like that.

[Magicyop]

Hello everyone,

As of late, some of us have grown unhappy with the way this thread is being run. We have decided to create our own offshoot thread, Community Based Monster Classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9909756). Rest assured we are in no way competing with this thread, and we would like this to be a peaceful break. The main difference will be that in our thread, there will be no one leader, and the decisions will be made by the community. Further, respect is the number one rule.

You all can feel free to join us in that project, and we have no issues with people posting in both of these Monster Class threads. Or, of course, you could simply ignore our new project and remain helping this one.

No matter what you do, we request that you give us permission to use your classes. Even if you don't want to help out Community Based Monster Classes at all, if you just give us permission to use your finished classes, it will help us a lot. Your monsters will get more publicity, and we'll have to start less from square one.

We have checked with the moderators and made sure it is reasonable for us to do this, and they are okay with it. Please remember that we would like there to be no hard feelings between the two projects.

We hope to see you at Community Based Monster Classes.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm having Deja Vu.

[Makiru]

/snip/

Sorry to hear that you're having a crisis of interests, I guess. You're more than welcome to link my monsters (all 4 of them...) in the thread for reference.

Also, finals week. I'll try and find time for the garngrath, but don't expect anything soon. I'll cross-post it in the Community Monster Class thread when I finish so everybody can look at it.

[Crafty Cultist]

I have no problem with my classes being used, go ahead

[Gorgondantess]

I'm sorry, but this came right out of nowhere.
If anyone has a problem with me or how I'm running things in the future, please PM me before you decide to start a schism.

[un_known]

I would like to suggest the Wendigo Template if possible.

[Gorgondantess]

I'm currently discussing this matter with Magicyop. Until further notice, I'm shutting down this thread: I can't stop you from posting, but I'll not be doing anything with it.
If at all possible, I'd like there to be a thread merge, even if that means my losing editing rights... but I'm going to make sure everything's squared away before I completely accede.
I admit I've been an ass, and to all of those who I've insulted (particularly Geckoking), I apologize. I've been uncouth, and I've wronged people.
To think, I created this thread with the intention of being the opposite of my predecessor, and I've become just like him.

[Lord_Gareth]

I'm currently discussing this matter with Magicyop. Until further notice, I'm shutting down this thread: I can't stop you from posting, but I'll not be doing anything with it.
If at all possible, I'd like there to be a thread merge, even if that means my losing editing rights... but I'm going to make sure everything's squared away before I completely accede.
I admit I've been an ass, and to all of those who I've insulted (particularly Geckoking), I apologize. I've been uncouth, and I've wronged people.
To think, I created this thread with the intention of being the opposite of my predecessor, and I've become just like him.

The burden of power, friend.

Also, Gorgon has repeatedly stated her feminine nature. Folks, stop the madness. She has womanly parts.

[The Antigamer]

I too would prefer not to have two projects. I think you're being a bit hard on yourself Gorgondantess, I certainly feel you are nowhere near the level of your predecessor in terms of being control-hungry, and I know that you were never trying to insult or demean anyone. I can't even hardly call out any comment as downright insulting. I also wish that any disagreements had been voiced before such a giant schism was enacted. I have seen no real reason for such a shift. The endorsement system has been working well, and there was a lot of community interest and investment. I hope all differences are reconciled, and the project moves forward as a whole, with continued good works.

[Gorgondantess]

The burden of power, friend.

Also, Gorgon has repeatedly stated her feminine nature. Folks, stop the madness. She has womanly parts.
I never said that. Neither have I stated that I have manly parts. See, eldritch horrors tend to be, for the most, part, asexual. Let's keep it that way, folks.:smalltongue:
(I have my reasons for sexual anonymity. Let's leave it at that.)


I too would prefer not to have two projects. I think you're being a bit hard on yourself Gorgondantess, I certainly feel you are nowhere near the level of your predecessor in terms of being control-hungry, and I know that you were never trying to insult or demean anyone. I can't even hardly call out any comment as downright insulting. I also wish that any disagreements had been voiced before such a giant schism was enacted. I have seen no real reason for such a shift. The endorsement system has been working well, and there was a lot of community interest and investment. I hope all differences are reconciled, and the project moves forward as a whole, with continued good works.

I wholeheartedly agree (specifically with the bolded parts), though I have been an ass. Others have been oversensitive, but I've still been an ass. Ask Geckoking sometime.
Anyways, I'm trying to move towards a thread merge as we speak.

[NineThePuma]

Yeah, Gorgon is a tentacle critter, like me. We get the best of ALL THREE WORLDS.

It's AWESOME.

[Lix Lorn]

You're sexually anonymous? But all the times I've been annoyed cause the 'ess' on your name made me think you were a girl and I thought you weren't! (sigh) oh well. Hooray for tentacles.

As far as the threads go, I had no clue that anything was wrong. (shrug)

[Lord_Gareth]

A suggestion?

There's a de facto Build Team already. Just formalize it into some kind of Parliament Nefarious where decisions and policy are decided upon by the whole, thus relieving the individual of power/responsibility at previous levels. Start a new thread, transport all the data from the one to the other, and then have the mods lock the current two down.

[Gorgondantess]

A suggestion?

There's a de facto Build Team already. Just formalize it into some kind of Parliament Nefarious where decisions and policy are decided upon by the whole, thus relieving the individual of power/responsibility at previous levels. Start a new thread, transport all the data from the one to the other, and then have the mods lock the current two down.

I'm going to go for something like that. Sortof. Just cool 'yer heels and let Gorgie take care of everything.:smallcool:

[Lord_Gareth]

I'm going to go for something like that. Sortof. Just cool 'yer heels and let Gorgie take care of everything.:smallcool:

I demand that you name it something sinister.

[Lix Lorn]

The Illuminati?

[Lord_Gareth]

The Illuminati?

Not something hilarious.

Besides, do you know how many retarded theories I hear about them DAILY? I live in KANSAS.

[NineThePuma]

(sigh) oh well. Hooray for tentacles.
Don't sound so put out by it.

[Lix Lorn]

Not something hilarious.

Besides, do you know how many retarded theories I hear about them DAILY? I live in KANSAS.
Well YOU say something funny then.


Don't sound so put out by it.
HOORAY FOR TENTACLES! :smallbiggrin:

[simplename]

A suggestion?

There's a de facto Build Team already. Just formalize it into some kind of Parliament Nefarious where decisions and policy are decided upon by the whole, thus relieving the individual of power/responsibility at previous levels. Start a new thread, transport all the data from the one to the other, and then have the mods lock the current two down.

That would be assuming that compromises can be reached in an effecient way. But as seen from the schism, there's simply people with diferent design philosophie around here.

After all, what would be best?
-Two (or more) threads competing for quality and providing design philosophy choice for the homebrewers?
-One thread of endless back-and-forth bickering where one class gets done every month at best because of bureaucracy slowdown?

This forums are free overall. People should by all means be able to start their own projects with their own rules.

[Gorgondantess]

That would be assuming that compromises can be reached in an effecient way. But as seen from the schism, there's simply people with diferent design philosophie around here.

After all, what would be best?
-Two (or more) threads competing for quality and providing design philosophy choice for the homebrewers?
-One thread of endless back-and-forth bickering where one class gets done every month at best because of bureaucracy slowdown?

This forums are free overall. People should by all means be able to start their own projects with their own rules.

I'm more seeing it as two threads with both a lack of consistency and support due to a split loyalty base, or one unified thread that works. Trust me, I'm the last person who's going to help implement a bureaucracy.

[Ishcumbeebeeda]

Given how busy I am with finals and trying to graduate, and the (apparent; I haven't had time to actually read the thread in a while) revamp of the were-classes I'm gonna have to just drop the Were-elephant. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

[Zeofar]

This thread-split is really bothering me, simply because it isn't necessary and will eventually result in either a permanent dual-citizenship for a majority of monster classes or the death of one of the threads, which is ultimately sloppy and will make keeping track of the whole thing harder in the future. I have not actually participated in any of these threads, but I enjoy them thoroughly, so I really want to see them continue in a unified and practical manner. These are the suggestions which I would like to offer which I think will remedy some of the currently existing issues as well as make the thread better in the long run:


The thread manager is someone is competent with the forum formatting code, checks the forum frequently, has time to devote to keeping track of the thread and classes created and can add them to the list promptly, and is the least likely to have any foreseeable interruptions in thread management. These are, in addition, the whole of their responsibilities and they have no greater authority than any other thread participant. This is more or less how things are supposedly being run in the both threads, but it bears repeating. I recommend that it remains Gorgondantess at least until this current thread has run its course simply to avoid an unnecessary break (or that the threads get merged)


End the current use of endorsements and any single person's official ability to censure or censor posted classes by anybody, period. When somebody says that their class is done or at least done enough to warrant being listed, it is. The thread is to be used a directory and a workshop, not a debate forum. Everyone can recommend or critique all they want, but none at all needs to be heeded by the creator if he does not want to do so.


Revamp Endorsements/Nominations: As nice as it is, it introduces a certain level of bureaucracy that isn't terribly beneficial. Being endorsed would now mean that the classes are considered good by the community, not that it's time to post them. Becoming endorsed is done by a quorum/practical number of active users who have posted at least one monster class (to show commitment to the thread and competence; active means that they've posted in thread in at least 1 month). Endorsements are now an aid to anybody selecting the classes for use of which ones are considered good. Past classes can now be endorsed, and are otherwise marked with a symbol showing that they come from pre-endorsement times. If someone posts a class generally thought of as very poorly written (grammatically or mechanically), far too powerful or weak to be practically used, or literally broken in terms of mechanics, any active participant may send a pm to the thread manager. If the issues are real and there are enough people who feel that way, the class is taken down. If anyone seriously abuses any of these abilities in a disruptive manner through whatever shenanigan they come up with, report them: that I know of, posters are still beholden to abide by the Forum Rules even if they are acting under another subset of rules (if this happens often this thread is likely to get locked though).


Allow multiple versions of monsters: seriously. If someone wants to go another way with a monster, they're free to do so, especially since a certain few are not directly based on D&D monsters. However, only one version of a monster may be worked on at a given time to reduce confusion. Participants are encouraged to ask the original creator to edit in a certain ability as an alternate ability if it is a minor change or addition that would ultimately result in two near-identical classes.


Set real guidelines and examples where needed. Just do it: put them out there. The community as a whole should decide which monsters are representative for certain concepts and should have about three for each (Mindflayers for Psionic, Rakshasa for Sorcerors. But, please, not Naztharune Rakshasa for rogues since it helps more to see abilities which are not simply repeats of rogue class features) and should also decide as a whole which monsters are representative of weak or strong classes (The current reference to Anthropomorphic Animals just seems ugly if you look at the discussion surrounding it and realize that the current thread “leader” had a several page argument regarding it, whether or not the example is valid). ChumpLump's post in the other thread regarding class format is a definite must.


Bring Oslecamo's posts back under the modern guidelines. He's gone and isn't coming back, ever; to make sure that his classes and those “slightly changed” by him comply with all current guidelines regarding format (especially those slightly obnoxious class+unrelated material/several other monsters ones), other people bring them up to standard, repost them, and give him the credit. The original authors (if they are still active) of “modified” classes post 'em themselves and give him partial credit as well. At least his system of taking other peoples classes and posting them himself so they can be modified will get some legitimate use. This also applies to other banned users and posters who have not been active for over a year and whose classes need modification; for this reason, the thread administrator must have a ready means of off-forum communication with anyone who can no longer post here and a way of communicating that to anyone who may want their classes removed (the thread administrator should also be responsible for any class revamping for this reason.)


Okay, so the last two are just kinda things that I think would improve the thread in general, but I feel that if there's any time to post them, it might as well be now. I can't say that these are good suggestions or that they even address the underlying issues that have been involved in this thread, but I hope they do.

[Gorgondantess]

*snip*

If you have a problem with how things are being run, bring it up in the other thread. I have PM'd magicyop repeatedly about reaching some sort of compromise, and he's ignored me. I agree with the idea that the thread split is ultimately destructive, though- for what it's worth.:smallsigh:

[The Antigamer]

If you have a problem with how things are being run, bring it up in the other thread. I have PM'd magicyop repeatedly about reaching some sort of compromise, and he's ignored me. I agree with the idea that the thread split is ultimately destructive, though- for what it's worth.:smallsigh:

I believe a thread split is counter-productive as well.

[radmelon]

[/lurking]For the record, I too am against a split. "United we stand, divided we fall." :smalltongue: [lurking]

[Betropper]

Conter-productive? Don't think so. Right now 2 classes are being graded, one is almost done. What I think should happen is this:

Keep the two groups seperate, but have one database. If one group wants to work their way, fine, as long as the actual classes are made. You make classes in both threads and you work faster than normal due to two methods of grading. I personally see this more as a blessing than a curse.

[The Antigamer]

Conter-productive? Don't think so. Right now 2 classes are being graded, one is almost done. What I think should happen is this:

Keep the two groups seperate, but have one database. If one group wants to work their way, fine, as long as the actual classes are made. You make classes in both threads and you work faster than normal due to two methods of grading. I personally see this more as a blessing than a curse.

Yes, which means that something should be changed here if those classes weren't able to be posted here, thus making everyone happy.

Two groups with one database is a logistical nightmare. Why not just have one thread, one database, and use a new form of judging monster fitness? Splitting threads means both threads lose the good suggestions of at least a few people. I fail to see why a joint resolution cannot be reached.

My main problem with the split is that it came from nowhere, no one bothered to simply ask Gorgon if a rule change could be discussed, or bring up a grievance. If someone had, and Gorgon shot them down, I would see a new thread as a reasonable response. Not coming from out of the blue like this.

[Gorgondantess]

My main problem with the split is that it came from nowhere, no one bothered to simply ask Gorgon if a rule change could be discussed, or bring up a grievance. If someone had, and Gorgon shot them down, I would see a new thread as a reasonable response. Not coming from out of the blue like this.

Well, that's what I've been saying. However, it's fallen on deaf ears.
I'm considering starting my own thread. Not a community project, just me and my monster classes and anyone who wants to comment on them. My biggest problem (other than the fact that noone alerted me to it) with the other thread currently is that it'll invariably allow in a lot of shoddy work: after all, the Living Spell wasn't even close to being finished, even after its creator and a good 5 other people endorsed it. What'll happen if criteria are lessened even more than that?

[The Antigamer]

Well, that's what I've been saying. However, it's fallen on deaf ears.
I'm considering starting my own thread. Not a community project, just me and my monster classes and anyone who wants to comment on them. My biggest problem (other than the fact that noone alerted me to it) with the other thread currently is that it'll invariably allow in a lot of shoddy work: after all, the Living Spell wasn't even close to being finished, even after its creator and a good 5 other people endorsed it. What'll happen if criteria are lessened even more than that?

I for one, would like to thank you for salvaging the project when Oslecamo was banned, and for your work since. I thought your shift to an endorsement system was an attempt to give more control to the community, and show that you were open to change. Everyone's an ass sometimes, and since you have apologized, that should be the end of it.

[Gorgondantess]

I for one, would like to thank you for salvaging the project when Oslecamo was banned, and for your work since. I thought your shift to an endorsement system was an attempt to give more control to the community, and show that you were open to change. Everyone's an ass sometimes, and since you have apologized, that should be the end of it.

Thank you for your support. I'm glad to see I have at least one person on my side.:smalltongue:

[Mystic Muse]

Frankly Gorgon, I liked the way you ran the thread better than your predecessor too and it looked like you didn't take things personally.

While I'm sure the dissenters had legitimate grievances, making a split without saying anything to you about what they thought was wrong, is kind of disrespectful.

[Crafty Cultist]

I'm not sure what help I'll be, but I'll do anything I can to help get things up and running again

[Zeofar]

If you have a problem with how things are being run, bring it up in the other thread. I have PM'd magicyop repeatedly about reaching some sort of compromise, and he's ignored me. I agree with the idea that the thread split is ultimately destructive, though- for what it's worth.:smallsigh:

I actually don't have real issue with how the thread was being run before the split, I simply believe that what I suggested goes further toward rectifying the real or imagined grievances than the psuedo-democratic process that they've got going on in the other thread which I think may end up causing more conflicts than the now-passed situation. Either going totally free-form (more or less what I suggested) or going through a single filter (what you were doing here) ultimately seems like a better idea. The community-review style works in theory but relies on too many people to be truly effective or consistent (total inconsistency is better than variable inconsistency in the long run). Out of all of the options, I rather prefer how you and Oslecamo did it although I can see how some may have found it stifling.

[Lix Lorn]

If the threads have split, and diplomatic relations have ground to a halt, maybe it's time for aggressive negotiations re-opening the thread?

[Kajhera]

If the threads have split, and diplomatic relations have ground to a halt, maybe it's time for aggressive negotiations re-opening the thread?

I think it's less that negotiations have ground to a halt, and more that the parties involved are taking a break so diplomatic negotiations can proceed without vitriol, soon.

[Lix Lorn]

Well, I guess that's good, then.

[drakir_nosslin]

I for one, would like to thank you for salvaging the project when Oslecamo was banned, and for your work since. I thought your shift to an endorsement system was an attempt to give more control to the community, and show that you were open to change. Everyone's an ass sometimes, and since you have apologized, that should be the end of it.

+1 to that. You got another lurker on your sider here G. A split feels like a very drastic first move instead of trying to talk about it and maybe work out a better system if people feel a need for that.

[NineThePuma]

Split or no split, just keep working.

Part of the problem, I think, is that you've got the absolute final verdict on every monster. So share some authority out. Give more people the ability to make reviews. I certainly try when things catch my eye.

[Gorgondantess]

Split or no split, just keep working.

Part of the problem, I think, is that you've got the absolute final verdict on every monster. So share some authority out. Give more people the ability to make reviews. I certainly try when things catch my eye.

I gave people authority to make reviews, but as I stated with the Living Spell, if I just let others make reviews, quality control will suffer. I want, if not absolute final verdict on every monster, verdict on every monster.

[Niezck]

I gave people authority to make reviews, but as I stated with the Living Spell, if I just let others make reviews, quality control will suffer. I want, if not absolute final verdict on every monster, verdict on every monster.

Then you fall into the exact same position that led you to disagree so heavily with the last creator of this thread. That's all I'm gonna say on the subject.

[Disappears]

[Gorgondantess]

Then you fall into the exact same position that led you to disagree so heavily with the last creator of this thread. That's all I'm gonna say on the subject.

Perhaps I should elaborate on "verdict"- a say on every monster. If people disagree, fine, but nothing goes on the list without me at least looking at it first. That's the bottom line: I can't trust anyone to run proper quality control.

[Lix Lorn]

Well, if you don't trust anyone else who's here (And, if I understand their greivances, that kind of comment is one of the things that bugs them), maybe you could bring in some famous 'brewers? Djinn, or Vaynor, or Vorpal?

[Kajhera]

I have to imagine it would be difficult to put a monster on a list without at least glancing at it, but I'm probably misunderstanding the problem. :smallsigh:

[Gorgondantess]

Well, if you don't trust anyone else who's here (And, if I understand their greivances, that kind of comment is one of the things that bugs them), maybe you could bring in some famous 'brewers? Djinn, or Vaynor, or Vorpal?

If they're willing to get involved, I would be delighted- each of them are superb homebrewers, and for the most part better than I. However, I do believe they already would have if they were going to- after all, these threads are pretty hard to ignore.

Anyways, I also understand that it bugs them, but it's something that needs to be said. It'll make a worse end product if we put people's feelings above making good monsters. My job isn't to satisfy the monster makers, it's to satisfy the monster users. And while some people might be fine with playing mediocre monsters, well, I don't accept that argument- some people are fine with playing single class fighters, too.

[Betropper]

I gave people authority to make reviews, but as I stated with the Living Spell, if I just let others make reviews, quality control will suffer. I want, if not absolute final verdict on every monster, verdict on every monster.

This is exactly what I hoped Magicyop was lying about. Really, I couldn't believe it at first, but this is my final goodbye to your "Monarchy" gorgon. :smallfrown:

[Gorgondantess]

This is exactly what I hoped Magicyop was lying about. Really, I couldn't believe it at first, but this is my final goodbye to your "Monarchy" gorgon. :smallfrown:

It's not a monarchy- it's a dictatorship.

[Fizban]

I don't follow the thread closely, but I check in from time to time and I love the quality on the archived monsters. One of the things I liked about this thread was strong leadership, indeed a "dictatorship" is the only way to keep things running smoothly on a forum. Notice how the vote up threads are always in the final hands of the original poster, and even with something as huge as the vote up campaign setting they were able to finish it because all decisions were in the hands of a three person group. So, when I saw something about "endorsements" come up in this thread a few weeks back, I knew it was going to cause arguments and degrade quality. The thread's strength depended on Gorgondantess's iron fist of quality control. If Gorgon and the monster's writer can't agree on something, then I say just post both: let the writer have the final say on the main class, but they also have to stat up the changes Gorgon (or deputies) thought were necessary and spoiler them up at the end. The writer should have the final say on the main class, but in order to mesh with the thread they might need such an adaptation section to meet the same power level and standards as the rest of the classes.

[Gorgondantess]

Fizban: Again, thank you for saying things clearer than I could have.
Actually, the endorsement system wasn't giving anyone any power: it was just making my job easier. In the end, the idea was that it would force people to critique classes, but I still made sure it was up to par before instituting it. Of course, I've always promoted saying so if you disagree with me, and for the most part my suggestions were things that the maker agreed with. When there was a disagreement, sometimes I was the one to accede- even on my own classes, such as in the case of the Evolved Undead. No dictatorship functions without advisors.
Anyways, it seems like there likely isn't going to be an agreement. I want to put the classes above the class makers, and they want to put the class makers above the classes. However, I'm going to make sure there's collaboration between the two threads.
Anyways, I have a request for all y'alls: can anyone here make avatars? Or do they know someone who might be sympathetic to me who can? I have an idea I'd like to implement, but I need some aid from a more artistically inclined soul.

[Benly]

If they're willing to get involved, I would be delighted- each of them are superb homebrewers, and for the most part better than I. However, I do believe they already would have if they were going to- after all, these threads are pretty hard to ignore.

I hate to break it to you, but these threads are actually pretty easy to ignore. I don't have a huge interest in designing monster classes but am occasionally interested in seeing what ideas people have had, so I browsed the index posts from time to time and looked over the monsters people had made, and that's as far as I ever browsed the thread - I don't have a lot of interest in joining into a 200-page thread already in progress with its own apparent subculture and all. At one point maybe a month or two ago I got curious about the discussion bits, looked forward at the then-current posts, and saw what looked like (and apologies if this was you, because this is the impression I got) a control freak throwing a tantrum about His Own Personal Corner Of The Internet. I decided that this was a forum subculture I really didn't want to get involved with, and didn't look into the discussion bits again until I saw there were two long threads getting bumped with almost the same name, got curious about it, and read back over the unfolding drama bomb.

Anyway. I'm late to the drama and I don't really have a dog in this fight, but it seemed like you could use a reminder that your thread really is just another thread and is, indeed, not that hard to ignore for most of us.

[Mystic Muse]

Anyways, I have a request for all y'alls: can anyone here make avatars? Or do they know someone who might be sympathetic to me who can? I have an idea I'd like to implement, but I need some aid from a more artistically inclined soul.

I'm not great at it but I can make avatars.

[Gorgondantess]

I hate to break it to you, but these threads are actually pretty easy to ignore. I don't have a huge interest in designing monster classes but am occasionally interested in seeing what ideas people have had, so I browsed the index posts from time to time and looked over the monsters people had made, and that's as far as I ever browsed the thread - I don't have a lot of interest in joining into a 200-page thread already in progress with its own apparent subculture and all. At one point maybe a month or two ago I got curious about the discussion bits, looked forward at the then-current posts, and saw what looked like (and apologies if this was you, because this is the impression I got) a control freak throwing a tantrum about His Own Personal Corner Of The Internet. I decided that this was a forum subculture I really didn't want to get involved with, and didn't look into the discussion bits again until I saw there were two long threads getting bumped with almost the same name, got curious about it, and read back over the unfolding drama bomb.
A month or two ago? Unless you're talking about Oslecamo, I don't really know how that could be. Things were really peaceful in the start.

I'm not great at it but I can make avatars.
Define "not that great". Do you have a portfolio I could look at?

[Mystic Muse]

Define "not that great". Do you have a portfolio I could look at?

Only one I can think of is the avatar of the poster "Sliver" at the moment.

Somebody else too but I don't have them on my computer anymore so I can't check.

[Zeta Kai]

At one point maybe a month or two ago I got curious about the discussion bits, looked forward at the then-current posts, and saw what looked like (and apologies if this was you, because this is the impression I got) a control freak throwing a tantrum about His Own Personal Corner Of The Internet. I decided that this was a forum subculture I really didn't want to get involved with, and didn't look into the discussion bits again until I saw there were two long threads getting bumped with almost the same name, got curious about it, and read back over the unfolding drama bomb.

Hey, I didn't know that you'd been looking at my threads! :smallwink:

You know, for a (Closed) thread, this place is fairly active. :smallamused:

[Stycotl]

i'm gonna add my thoughts to the soap opera here.


That's the bottom line: I can't trust anyone to run proper quality control.

this is where your logic utterly fails. i'm not sure where you get this idea, or how you think it is any different than how osle ran his tyrannical operation, because it is the same thing.

granted, you've been *for the most part* quite a bit more diplomatic about it, and it has been nice not having to wade through pages of insults and temper tantrums in order to get to the next submission.

but in the end, you are still trying to force everyone to play your game, without any seeming concern for the fact that it is a collaborative effort.

you are not the only homebrewer around here; you are not the only skilled and experienced homebrewer around here; and to quote you:


You're not be a great homebrewer: that's fine.

you are not a great homebrewer, gorgon––though you are good––and even if you were great, you are not the only great one out there. there are people submitting monsters to this project that i think are much better at balance than you are.

but, as you said, that's fine. it really is. it means that you have a valid expectation to help with quality control. but if you are intent on being the only one that has anything to do with quality control, then you might as well kick out all of the homebrewers and do it all yourself.

but since there are plenty of others here that are qualified, even more so than you, to run quality control, and you still seem to have the goal for a community project, you might as well use them too.


My job isn't to satisfy the monster makers, it's to satisfy the monster users. And while some people might be fine with playing mediocre monsters, well, I don't accept that argument- some people are fine with playing single class fighters, too.

one of the issues here is that you seem unable to understand that satisfying the monster players is going to be just as subjective as satisfying the monster makers.

right now, you are confusing your design goals with quality design goals. if a monster doesn't meet your design goals, then it must not meet quality design goals. that is fallacious reasoning.


I want to put the classes above the class makers, and they want to put the class makers above the classes.

no. they want to put their own ideas of monster making into their own monster project. again, you confuse the difference between your perspective and a perfect perspective.

now, i'm not going to say that it was right or wrong to go start a new thread without some prerequisite amount of discussion beforehand. i wasn't involved, so i don't know the details. but starting a new thread isn't a big deal.

in fact, whether or not it stemmed from him getting banned or not, that is essentially what you did to osle in the beginning of your first thread. he didn't even get to argue the point since he could no longer post on this forum (under that name...); he didn't get to discuss the evolution of his brainchild in PMs to make sure that it still stayed true to its origins.

and i don't think that there is anything wrong with having a definite lead in a project like this, whether it is you or someone else. but the one that is leading the project needs to understand some things before they take the reigns.

you need to clearly state your intent as to what kind of a project this is.

you seem to have communicated that this was a community project, one that you would be spearheading, but that you wanted others to be involved with.

osle seemed to want the same thing. in the beginning. but he quickly proved that he didn't know what he was doing as far as encouraging contribution and cooperation from others. further, he proved that he didn't know what he really wanted from the playground.

i used this analogy with osle when i was trying to convince him to calm down and back off of his control issues (including his foul treatment of you): on a playground, when a bunch of kids get together to play a game, if one person demands that everything goes his or her way, and says that they can't trust any of the others to run a good game, that person is considered a wee little tyrant, even if they were the one that first thought up the game.

you certainly have the ability to make sure all of your demands are met before you add a submission to the index, expecting that your way is the only quality way, the only correct way––it's your thread.

but no one is going to want to play with a tyrant, and they aren't at all out of line for going off and starting their own game, even if it looks a lot like yours.

*******

in the end, i don't see anything wrong if you are the sole administrator of the thread. but i think you need to lighten up on the control issue. telling the rest of the playground that you can't and won't trust them to make quality homebrew without your final approval is not only insulting, but it is narcissistic and shortsighted.

if you really want quality submissions, you need to drastically open up your narrow definition of what is good homebrew and what isn't. you need to do a better job of including the insights and opinions of the others.

and i think that zeofar's suggestion about putting up multiple versions of the same creature is absolutely fine. as i said, there are differing ideas of what makes good homebrew, quality homebrew, and even homebrew that is true to the flavor of the original inspirations. to force everyone to adopt one variation, when others can be just as valid, is shortsighted. if someone creates a monster with a specific ability that they swear is mandatory, and you disagree, let them post both variants. or if they don't want to go to the work of finishing a final product that meets your approval, then post your fix along with theirs in the index.

anyway, good luck with this, all of you. i have appreciated your efforts, even if i have done so silently. i keep meaning to contribute, but i'm in the middle of a pretty hefty series of semesters at school. so it might be after graduation...

aaron out.

[Kajhera]

What I have learned from this: When I start a cool thread I should delegate pretty much all the authority away so no one can blame me for anything. :smalltongue:

[Crafty Cultist]

With a big project like this one you need someone in charge to keep things going. I think gorgy is doing a pretty good job

[Stycotl]

forgot to mention though, gorgon, that was big of you to offer an apology on the thread; that is a lot more than most people on this forum would have dared to do.

[Zeta Kai]

forgot to mention though, gorgon, that was big of you to offer an apology on the thread; that is a lot more than most people on this forum would have dared to do.

Agreed. That was pretty cool. :smallcool:

[Gorgondantess]

know, for a (Closed) thread, this place is fairly active. :smallamused:

An astute observation.:smallamused:
I'm not trying to shut down conversation, though, so much as make it clear that it's not active in the monster-making sense.


What I have learned from this: When I start a cool thread I should delegate pretty much all the authority away so no one can blame me for anything.
Probably a good idea.:smalltongue:

this is where your logic utterly fails. i'm not sure where you get this idea, or how you think it is any different than how osle ran his tyrannical operation, because it is the same thing.

granted, you've been *for the most part* quite a bit more diplomatic about it, and it has been nice not having to wade through pages of insults and temper tantrums in order to get to the next submission.

but in the end, you are still trying to force everyone to play your game, without any seeming concern for the fact that it is a collaborative effort.

you are not the only homebrewer around here; you are not the only skilled and experienced homebrewer around here; and to quote you:
No, I agree. I'm not. However, I think that, from a purely "Is it playable?" standpoint, I'm the best judge on monster classes when it comes to active posters. While others may have just as good an eye for it, I have the strictest standards.
Now I'll admit: it won't work in a community project. I've come to realize that now. That's why, if/when I start a new thread, I'll clearly state that I'm the one in charge, if I think your class is bad I'll say it, and if you don't like it please head over to community monster classes.


you are not a great homebrewer, gorgon
If you'll read a little further down the same post you quoted, I say exactly that.:smallamused:


there are people submitting monsters to this project that i think are much better at balance than you are.
Just like it's my opinion that I'm the only one who can run quality control, it's your opinion that there are more qualified people out there.
I, however, have strict evidence. Again, I'll use the example of the living spell: you weren't there to see it when 6 people said it was perfect when it had things like "an enemy struck by the living spell's slam attack is affected as if by an unseen seer spell". Not just one instance of things like that. That was just the first track, which also had things like bigby's interposing hand and mage hand. No, dozens of things like that. And nobody raised an objection but me. Under the current endorsement system in community monster classes, that would've gone into use and on the list when it was clearly unplayable. That's just the bottom line.
Note that this isn't a shot at Magicyop. He's quite a good homebrewer, and becoming better every day, and I'm sure that by the time the living spell is finished it'll be a fine class. But at the time, it was unplayable and yet, according to a consensus of people, perfect and should go on the list.


in fact, whether or not it stemmed from him getting banned or not, that is essentially what you did to osle in the beginning of your first thread. he didn't even get to argue the point since he could no longer post on this forum (under that name...); he didn't get to discuss the evolution of his brainchild in PMs to make sure that it still stayed true to its origins.
Osle was banned, and only then did I consider continuing the project. It wasn't a matter of taking the project from him, it was a matter of continuing it- if it weren't for my actions, it very well may have died right then and there.


you need to clearly state your intent as to what kind of a project this is.
I agree. I intended on making it a community project, and things changed. Now I realize that I couldn't sit well with that when there were things going on that I believe were wrong- I should have stated how things were to be in the first place. I screwed up. That doesn't make how I did things fine and dandy, and there are certainly things that I'm ashamed of. But, there's nothing I can do about it now but try to get back on the horse.

If a monster is bad, it is bad. Who is going to determine that? A quota of people? Ask 20 random D&D players if they think the fighter is a decent class, and 6 or so of them will say yes. Ask 20 random D&D players if the truenamer is a decent class, and 6 or so of them might just say yes. There needs to be a bottom line quality control, and from what I've seen, I believe I'm the most qualified to be that line. No, I'm not infallible. Hell, I'm not even close to being infallible. I'm not even "really really good". But I'm the only one with the skills and wills to do it, and so I'll be the one to do it.

[NineThePuma]

Then turn this into a compilation thread and MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD FOR YOUR OWN MONSTERS.

Jeeze, here's a thought: Has anyone ever actually posted their monsters separately to try and garner attention to their monster without cluttering the main thread with critiques of the monsters? Then, you can have the main thread be a compilation thread, where the standards are discussed and the systems outlines are given.

Then, when the class creator thinks that he has a very solid and nice class, he can request that the senior Editors (of which there are three) to offer their official critiques, and he can discuss these official critiques with them, still in a separate thread. When the Senior Editors feel that the class is ready, it's added to the compilation.

Both sides are happy cause it's not totally reliant on one guy.


EDIT:


Soulspark

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91236.jpg

HD: D8
Skills: Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive and Spot
Skill Points: 4 + Int mod (X4 at first level)

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: A Soulspark is only proficient with its Soul Blast.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Feature
1|+0|+0|+2|+0|Soulspark Body, Soul Blast, Alignment, +1 Cha
2|+1|+0|+3|+0|Incarnum Shroud, +1 Dex
3|+2|+1|+3|+1|Evasion, +1 Cha
4|+3|+1|+4|+1|Resistant Soul, +1 Dex
5|+3|+1|+4|+1|Soul Limb, +1 Cha
6|+4/+1|+2|+5|+2|Soul's Majesty, +1 Dex
7|+5/+2|+2|+5|+2|Soul Perfection, +1 Cha, +1 Dex[/table]

Soulspark Body: A Soulspark loses all other racial traits and bonuses and becomes a tiny Outsider with the Incarnum and Native subtypes. It has a base land speed of 20 ft and a fly speed equal to 5ft/HD with perfect maneuverability.

A Soulspark has no limbs to perform fine manipulation with, nor can it speak. It can manipulate objects to the extent of pushing them. It can communicate telepathically with a range of 10ft/HD.

A Soulspark cannot be affected by critical hits and can never be flanked. It gains a deflection bonus to AC equal to its charisma score.

Soul Blast: (Su)
As a Soulspark lacks any form of natural attack and cannot wield a weapon, it utilizes another weapon. At 2nd level, a Soulspark may, in place of a regular attack, release a Soul Blast. This is a ranged attack with a range of 30ft + 5ft/HD that deals 1d6 + charisma modifier damage. The Soulspark may use iterative Soul Blasts as though it were a manufactured weapon . Using this ability does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

For every 2 HD the Soulspark has, the damage is increased one step as shown. (1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 5d6, 6d6, etc). Beyond 6d6, the damage continues to increase by a single d6 for each step.

A Soulspark may take the Improved Natural Attack feat for this attack. It is treated as a natural attack in all regards.

Alignment:
At 1st level, a Soulspark must choose an alignment from Neutral Good, Neutral Evil, Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral. Any alignment-dependant ability gained by the Soulspark has a component opposite to the non-neutral component of the Soulspark's alignment.

For example, a Neutral Good Soulspark that later gains the Resistant Soul ability would gain DR/Evil.

Ability Increases:
At 2nd, 4th, 6th and 7th levels, the Soulspark gains a permanent +1 to its dexterity score. At 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th levels the Soulspark gains a permanent +1 to its charisma score.

Incarnum Shroud: (Su)
As a being of pure incarnum, a Soulspark gains an essentia pool equal to its HD. At 2nd level, it can use this essentia in a number of ways, with more available as it increases in HD. These abilities are shown below.

The Soulspark may invest its essentia points into the following abilities to a limit of 1/2 its HD into any one ability. Re-arranging essentia is a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Essentia remains stored until the Soulspark re-arranges it. The Soulspark has access to all Incarnum Shroud Powers on the list below of the level it can use. The maximum level of a useable Shroud Power is equal to the Soulspark's level.

{table=head]Level|Shroud Power
1|Soul Might
1|Soul Magic
2|Soul Defence
2|Soul Blasting
3|Soul Healing
4|Soul Grace
5|Soul Strength
6|Soul Deception
7|Mighty Soul[/table]

Incarnum Shroud Powers:

Soul Might
The Soulspark gains an insight bonus on attack and damage roles equal to the amount of essentia invested.

Soul Defence
The Soulspark gains an insight bonus on AC equal to the amount of essentia invested.

Soul Healing
The Soulspark gains Fast Healing equal to twice the amount of essentia invested.

Soul Magic
The Soulspark gains the ability to use a single first level wizard/sorcerer or cleric spell for each two points of essentia invested. This is a Spell-Like Ability with a caster level equal to the Soulspark's HD. The Spell-Like Ability is useable at-will while the essentia is invested. For each additional four points of essentia invested, the level of the spell useable may be increased by one. For all purposes, the save DC is equal to 10+1/2HD+Cha modifier.

Soul Blasting
The Soulspark's Soul Blast ability has its damage die increased by one point for each three points of essentia invested.

Soul Grace
The Soulspark gains an insight bonus on saves equal to the amount of essentia invested.

Soul Strength
The Soulspark's Soul Limb slam attack increases by one step of damage for each two points of essentia invested.

Soul Deception
The Soulspark becomes affected by a permanent Invisibility spell as long as two points of essentia remain invested. By investing an additional six points, this improves to Greater Invisibility and by investing another six points on top of that (14 total), this improves to Superior Invisibility.

Mighty Soul
For every three points of essentia invested, the Soulspark gains a +1 insight bonus to its Charisma score.

Evasion:
At 3rd level, the Soulspark gains evasion, as the Monk ability.

Resistant Soul:
At 4th level, a Soulspark gains DR equal to half its HD. This is bypassed by attacks of an opposed alignment.

Soul Limb: (Ex)
At 5th level, a Soulspark gains the ability to extend a portion of itself in a hand-like fashion. It gains a single slam attack dealing 1d2+Strength mod damage. It also gains the ability to manipulate objects as if it had a regular humanoid hand. It may not wield weapons or carry objects with this limb but it may open doors, activate magic items and otherwise perform as normal.

Soul's Majesty (Ex)
Drawing from its lifetimes of experience, the Soulspark gains becomes more aware of the world around it. It gains the benefit of a permanent Arcane Sight spell. At 14HD this improves to a permanent Greater Arcane Sight.

Soul Perfection:
At 7th level, a Soulspark gains the choice of two abilities:
Soul Incarnate:

At 7th level, a Soulspark becomes a true incarnation of incarnum. It gains meldshaping, essentia and all other class features of an Incarnate with a level equal to its Soulspark Level-2. However, it gains the ability to bind soulmelds to its soul and heart chakras only and can bind to these chakras immediately. If its Soul Limb is manifested, it may also bind to its arm and hand chakras.

The Soulspark cannot take levels in a meldshaping-advancing prestige class to improve this, nor can it take levels in Incarnate itself. Any essentia gained from its Incarnum Shroud ability must be used entirely for those abilities and essentia gained from its effective Incarnate level can only be used for Incarnate abilities.

Soul Manifestation:

At 7th level a Soulspark transforms into the final stage of soul rebirth. It gains the ability to take on a physical form a number of times per day equal to its HD. This ability has a duration in minutes equal to twice the Soulspark's charisma modifier. Transforming is a free action.

When the Soulspark transforms, it is as the spell Alter Self except with the changed duration, casting time and increase to strength as detailed below. Additionally, it may take the forms of humanoid creatures. The Soulspark loses its Soul Shroud, Soul Limb and Resilient Soul class features along with its deflection bonus to AC while it is transformed.

Additionally, it gains an increase to its strength score equal to 1/4 its HD (min 1) while transformed, as it finds it now has use of muscles and tendons.

When the Soulspark transforms it becomes wrapped in blue-white incarnum light that shrouds its body, giving the effect of clothing.


Comments:

Since the original Soulspark has very little beyond its soul blast and incarnum shroud abilities, I had to create the later stuff from scratch. The only thing I'm really unsure about is the capstone allowing access to heart and soul chakras immediately. But then I figured, you're a floating ball of energy that has to limit itself (that is, use ALL of its racial essentia) just to talk and manipulate objects, so having some pretty sweet soulmelds won't break things too badly I don't think.

A question regarding Soul Incarnate: Why is it nonstackable with Incarnate? As a capstone, having it count Soulspark HD-2 as levels in incarnate stacking would make it much more usable.

[Gorgondantess]

Then turn this into a compilation thread and MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD FOR YOUR OWN MONSTERS.

Jeeze, here's a thought: Has anyone ever actually posted their monsters separately to try and garner attention to their monster without cluttering the main thread with critiques of the monsters? Then, you can have the main thread be a compilation thread, where the standards are discussed and the systems outlines are given.

Then, when the class creator thinks that he has a very solid and nice class, he can request that the senior Editors (of which there are three) to offer their official critiques, and he can discuss these official critiques with them, still in a separate thread. When the Senior Editors feel that the class is ready, it's added to the compilation.
Well, first of all, my personal preference is to keep it to one thread.
Second of all, once this can all be discussed with the others, that's... essentially what I'm going for. At the very least, it has to be looked over either by me or by me & others.


*Soulspark*
This is not just to you, but to everyone: I strongly advise that, when it comes to classes that have been finished for a while now, rather than posting a question you PM it to its creator.

[Rennard]

Jeeze, here's a thought: Has anyone ever actually posted their monsters separately to try and garner attention to their monster without cluttering the main thread with critiques of the monsters? Then, you can have the main thread be a compilation thread, where the standards are discussed and the systems outlines are given.

Then, when the class creator thinks that he has a very solid and nice class, he can request that the senior Editors (of which there are three) to offer their official critiques, and he can discuss these official critiques with them, still in a separate thread. When the Senior Editors feel that the class is ready, it's added to the compilation.

By my count, that creates three seperate threads in constant use for this project. Per monster. That seems excessive for what is, in fact, a small portion of the Homebrew boards.

I think the problem here is that issues of "quality control" are in effect unsolvable. There is no standard for what makes a monster playable or useable in 3.5 (you only need to look at the WoTC content to see that), and therefore, every person is going to have a different understanding of what constitutes "playable."

Listed standards would help, but ultimately, SOMEone has to take on the thankless job of editor. That's just common sense. Community projects are handled this way on the boards for a reason - it works. The decisons of whatever poor soul gets the job will be unpopular some of the time, but that's true for any job dealing with creative people (just ask film editors).

Henry Kissinger observed that the less there is at stake, the more viciously people will fight for it. Guys, it's a D20 Homebrew, not the search for Osama bin Laden. Discussions about balance and playability should keep an academic tone, if possible. Citiques on your work are not personal attacks - they are critiques. I would pay cash money if people payed even 1/10 of the attention that these threads get to my meager ideas, even if they were all negative comments.

I love this project, and am excited to see it continue - it has added a whole new dimension to my D&D game, and has gotten several reticent players interested in the game again. That makes this project a force for good in gaming. It should not be allowed to self-destruct or fragment in this fashion.

[Lord_Gareth]

Gorgon, I, personally, think you've done great and I'm actually rather ashamed at how the community has been treating you.

That said, there is a power level we can objectively balance to - other classes. Don't think of these as "monsters" from a balance standpoint. Think of them as "fighter types" or "casters" and balance accordingly.

[Gorgondantess]

By my count, that creates three seperate threads in constant use for this project. Per monster. That seems excessive for what is, in fact, a small protion of the Homebrew boards.

I think the problem here is that issues of "quality control" are in effect unsolvable. There is no standard for what makes a monster playable or useable in 3.5 (you only need to look at the WoTC content to see that), and therefore, every person is going to have a different understanding of what constitutes "playable."
Thus, it has to be determined subjectively.


Listed standards would help, but ultimately, SOMEone has to take on the thankless job of editor. That's just common sense. Community projects are handled this way on the boards for a reason - it works. The decisons of whatever poor soul gets the job will be unpopular some of the time, but that's true for any job dealing with creative people (just ask film editors).
And some people will always storm out and decide to start their own project. It happens with any job dealing with creative people.


Henry Kissinger observed that the less there is at stake, the more viciously people will fight for it. Guys, it's a D20 Homebrew, not the search for Osama bin Laden. Discussions about balance and playability should keep an academic tone, if possible. Citiques on your work are not personal attacks - they are critiques. I would pay cash money if people payed even 1/10 of the attention that these threads get to my meager ideas, even if they were all negative comments.
Nice Kissinger reference. That's all I have to say about that.:smalltongue:


I love this project, and am excited to see it continue - it has added a whole new dimension to my D&D game, and has gotten several reticent players interested in the game again. That makes this project a force for good in gaming. It should not be allowed to self-destruct or fragment in this fashion.
"Force for good" in gaming? Whatever happened to "Guys, it's a D20 Homebrew, not the search for Osama bin Laden"?:smalltongue:


Gorgon, I, personally, think you've done great and I'm actually rather ashamed at how the community has been treating you.
Listen... it happens. I've said some things I'm ashamed of. Well, one thing. In PM. It's all overblown, and probably could've all just been avoided if they were willing to negotiate before storming out, but there you go.


That said, there is a power level we can objectively balance to - other classes. Don't think of these as "monsters" from a balance standpoint. Think of them as "fighter types" or "casters" and balance accordingly. Read the OP, my friend. It's detailed there.
Nevertheless, it's nevertheless vastly subjective, and thus people will disagree. Oh well. Disagreements happen.

[Fizban]

I would pay cash money if people payed even 1/10 of the attention that these threads get to my meager ideas, even if they were all negative comments.
Where do I sign up? :smallamused:

In seriousness though, if you'd like some comments, I'd try PMing around. I've only had a couple of PMs in my entire time here, so when one shows up I check it out immediately. I'm not a well known name (well my name is, but I'm not :smalltongue:), but I've been around long enough that I think I know what I'm talking about. Alternatively, a lot of the well known homebrewers will at least give your work a cursory glance if you ask for it, even if they're otherwise busy. I PM'd the best group I could think of last time I posted a homebrew and got some great feedback: even if only one or two people stayed on for more than a single comment, that initial burst was enough to get the thread off the ground and eventually I ended up with something much better than what I started with.

[Temotei]

It's all overblown, and probably could've all just been avoided if they were willing to negotiate before storming out, but there you go.

From what I've seen, the creators of the community thread did it because they wanted just that--a community thread. You've made it clear that you want to do your thing here, and they apparently don't like your method. Neither "side" is right or wrong; there's just a difference of opinion.

The community thread creators got permission from moderators/administrators, and they had apparently discussed creation beforehand, so "storming out" is probably going a bit far in describing their action.

Again, neither method of evaluation or monster creation is incorrect. They're just different, as I'm sure you understand. You want one thing, while others want a different thing.

As I'm not involved in the PMing among thread creators, I only have part of the information, but this is just gathered from what I've seen.

[Fortuna]

Where do I sign up? :smallamused:

In seriousness though, if you'd like some comments, I'd try PMing around. I've only had a couple of PMs in my entire time here, so when one shows up I check it out immediately. I'm not a well known name (well my name is, but I'm not :smalltongue:), but I've been around long enough that I think I know what I'm talking about. Alternatively, a lot of the well known homebrewers will at least give your work a cursory glance if you ask for it, even if they're otherwise busy. I PM'd the best group I could think of last time I posted a homebrew and got some great feedback: even if only one or two people stayed on for more than a single comment, that initial burst was enough to get the thread off the ground and eventually I ended up with something much better than what I started with.

A long, long time ago, back when I first walked the forums (so probably about half a year, give or take), there was a small movement, which I started, which consisted of expressing willingness to evaluate homebrew in your sig, and inviting anyone else to whom that applied to add it to their sig as well. I haven't been active in the playground for a while (though now I'm BACK!), but that seemed to work reasonably well. If a thread languished, then usually I or another member would be called in. If we weren't, well, you can't be everywhere, but I saw fewer threads die with no replies after that started.

Now that I think of it, I should probably stick that back in my sig. Thanks for reminding me!

[Temotei]

Thanks for reminding me!

Oh yeah. :smallcool:

[Rumel]

I fixed the WereScorpion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9647117&postcount=760)... What did you mean, ChumpLump, when you said an "animal only" attack... I've given it an extendo-tail!

[Betropper]

I fixed the WereScorpion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9647117&postcount=760)... What did you mean, ChumpLump, when you said an "animal only" attack... I've given it an extendo-tail!

as in an attack only usable in animal form. BTW, you should probably go to the other thread. This one seems a bit deserted for monsters.

[GuesssWho]

Found the black dragon! http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9557778&postcount=501

[Ralasha]

I have a request. How about something to the effect of being the polar opposite of undead?

[Sir_Chivalry]

I have a request. How about something to the effect of being the polar opposite of undead?

Done. Called a Deathless. Everything is the same except they are turned/destroyed by evil clerics, rebuked/commanded by good ones, healed by positive energy, hurt by negative energy. Book of Exalted Deeds, Eberron Campaign Setting, and this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html).

[Gorgondantess]

Excuse me, but what does the "closed" in the title mean to you people?
Please don't post here.
Thank you.:smallsmile:

[Elsquanday]

Ok first off, I know this thread is CLOSED... but I just want to know where I can post a suggestion for a Blue Slaad character (if you are still taking suggestions somehwere).

I have followed the first three threads and it lead me to this thread which is closed.:smallfrown: Could you please post a link to the thread you are currently taking requests on if there is one? Thank you, and again, sorry for posting:smallsmile:

[Kobold-Bard]

Ok first off, I know this thread is CLOSED... but I just want to know where I can post a suggestion for a Blue Slaad character (if you are still taking suggestions somehwere).

I have followed the first three threads and it lead me to this thread which is closed.:smallfrown: Could you please post a link to the thread you are currently taking requests on if there is one? Thank you, and again, sorry for posting:smallsmile:

We got up to Thread VII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192151), which contains the final lists of finished classes in the first couple of posts.

Sadly the project is now closed and has been for some time due to differences between the forum staff, members & other members about how the thread should be maintained, so no more requests are being taken.

I believe Soft Serve has their own similar project (linked in their sig at the top of this page), so it might be worth seeing if they're interested in doing it. Or maybe PM one of the prolific creators & see if they're willing to help.

Sorry I don't have better news.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm still making classes, but there is no longer any community thread.

Here is my thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199321) for future requests, or you could try PMing other members.