The Ring of Regeneration: Fee, fie, foe, fum, I smell a Chekhov's Gun

[Katana_Geldar]

Couldn't help noticing the almost casual way that Tarquin threw this out there. Any ideas on how it could be significant?

For that matter, what sort of effect would a ring of regeneration have?

[Shale]

Per the SRD:

This white gold ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per level every hour rather than every day. (This ability cannot be aided by the Heal skill.) Nonlethal damage heals at a rate of 1 point of damage per level every 5 minutes. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.

Strong conjuration; CL 15th; Forge Ring, regenerate; Price 90,000 gp.

The only way for it to impact the story would be for Elan to be separated from Durkon (again) so he'd need the extra healing, or to be dismembered during a fight when he could (a) have made the difference by regenerating the lost limb, since Regenerate is a 7th-level cleric spell with no material component; and (b) had the limb ready to reattach, because "per the spell" takes 2d10 rounds when a body part has to be regrown from scratch.

[Katana_Geldar]

I'm talking about the fact that Tarquin is wearing it.

[Hallavast]

In 3.5 D&D, a ring of regeneration is an expensive magical item that allows the wearer to heal faster over time or "regenerate".

Ring of Regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#regeneration)

As for a Chekov's gun... meh. If it is, it would probly only be a minor one at best. Best possible plot use it could have is "somebody doesn't really die". So maybe...

[DeltaEmil]

At best, I could see Tarquin being splitted in half at some future point like Miko was in her last moments of life, but surviving and becoming whole with it again.

[Dorath]

I think Belkar will end up with the ring, after he and Tarquin become friends. Later, the Belkster will get knocked to -9 hp, declared dead, thus fulfilling the prophecy, and the ring will bring him back to positive.

[KillItWithFire]

I think Belkar will end up with the ring, after he and Tarquin become friends. Later, the Belkster will get knocked to -9 hp, declared dead, thus fulfilling the prophecy, and the ring will bring him back to positive.

ummmm I dont't think it works that way.

More to the point, this seems like a one strip gag. The thing that's more important is Tarquins offer of material aid for their quest. I'm sure the Order can find some less-than-evil magical item that Tarquin can offer.

[Hallavast]

ummmm I dont't think it works that way.

More to the point, this seems like a one strip gag. The thing that's more important is Tarquins offer of material aid for their quest. I'm sure the Order can find some less-than-evil magical item that Tarquin can offer.

The ring, itself, isn't evil. That being the case, I don't think Elan is inclined to accept help from his father.

[CletusMusashi]

Well, he did say that these items were duplicates. Haley might just take it on herself to explore the castle, find one, and steal it.
Or, the whole "gun going off" thingy could have simply been that punchline at the end of the strip.

[KillItWithFire]

The ring, itself, isn't evil.

No it isn't but it wasn't created in a humane manner. I don't think Elans arguments will hold much water when he tells the party about it as they are on one of those as Roy put it "all the help you can get quests" and Tarquin is willing to offer quite a lot of help.

[Hallavast]

No it isn't but it wasn't created in a humane manner. I don't think Elans arguments will hold much water when he tells the party about it as they are on one of those as Roy put it "all the help you can get quests" and Tarquin is willing to offer quite a lot of help.

And by the same token, all of Tarquin's power and influence were probably achieved through evil and decietful methods. So by the same logic, Elan would refuse ANY help from him. I agree that Roy in particular would call that dumb. It would be an interesting character question for Elan if he had to choose between Roy and his conscience.

[KillItWithFire]

Now I think using the word "all" is a bit of a strech when referring to how much of his power and goods are "not evil" and Tarquin certainly cannot force any aid onto Elan that he himself does not want. But Elan is rather stubborn in that regard and will certainly have to do some soul-searching.

[slayerx]

I'm talking about the fact that Tarquin is wearing it.

Elan will cut off Tarquin's hand alla Starwars episode six, and it will just regenerate right away

Alternate,
Elan will cut off Tarquin's hand alla Starwars episode six, Tarquin will gloat over the power of his ring, and then after a moment of silence he will realize Elan cut off the hand that had the ring on it

[Clertar]

Not sure whether it's an actual Chekhov'g gun, but you people must have seen the reference there...

Evel father and heroic son, sword duel, hand gets cut off... :smallwink:

[Katana_Geldar]

Elan will cut off Tarquin's hand alla Starwars episode six, Tarquin will gloat over the power of his ring, and then after a moment of silence he will realize Elan cut off the hand that had the ring on it

Love this! :smallbiggrin:

[tcrudisi]

Elan will cut off Tarquin's hand alla Starwars episode six, Tarquin will gloat over the power of his ring, and then after a moment of silence he will realize Elan cut off the hand that had the ring on it


Per the SRD:

... If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it...

It doesn't matter if he lost that hand. Since he was wearing the ring while the hand was cut off, the hand will regenerate.

[Voice of Reason]

I'm talking about the fact that Tarquin is wearing it.

Remember that assassin who tried to kill him? In this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0757.html)? Left him with a nasty cut to the face (chin)? The very next strip, the cut was no longer there, and there was no explanation given for what appeared to be an art slip-up; some astute people on the forums made note of this. Well, now we know that he's all healed up because of the Ring of Regeneration.

He probably has to put up with a fair amount of such attempts on his life, and doesn't want to run to Malak every time he gets a gash. Plus, the ability to re-attach body parts is a nifty added bonus, in case assassins, ex-lovers (or both :smallwink:), get any creative ideas.

[Katana_Geldar]

Good catch, Voice of Reason!

[Magdela]

I believe it to be a Chekhov's gun. May have some kind of tracking device on it so that the father can help against Xykon later on...or something.

[Callista]

Still a bad idea for Elan to accept the ring. If Tarquin had this one made by torturing someone to death, then he'll have a replacement made the same way. Elan would be better off just asking for gold; that, at least, Tarquin seems to have plenty of and wouldn't be driven to do something like work a bunch of slaves to death to replace it.

Does anybody have the Book of Vile Darkness handy? I could swear there's a precedent for powering magic items or spell components or something with people's souls or torture or similar...

[Felixc-91]

Still a bad idea for Elan to accept the ring. If Tarquin had this one made by torturing someone to death, then he'll have a replacement made the same way. Elan would be better off just asking for gold; that, at least, Tarquin seems to have plenty of and wouldn't be driven to do something like work a bunch of slaves to death to replace it.

Does anybody have the Book of Vile Darkness handy? I could swear there's a precedent for powering magic items or spell components or something with people's souls or torture or similar...yep, its horrible...:smallfrown: a dose of pain is a liquid that can be used to replace 3XP. a person can't be milked for more than one dose of pain per day. oh and each person is worth one dose per point of CON. and tarquin wheres something created in such a manor... :smallfurious:

[slayerx]

Still a bad idea for Elan to accept the ring. If Tarquin had this one made by torturing someone to death, then he'll have a replacement made the same way. Elan would be better off just asking for gold; that, at least, Tarquin seems to have plenty of and wouldn't be driven to do something like work a bunch of slaves to death to replace it.


The ring wasn't made by torturing people, it was just used to torture poeple

[Felixc-91]

The ring wasn't made by torturing people, it was just used to torture poepleread the last panels again, unless your being sarcastic, it can be hard to till in print. any way, he hurt people to make it.

[Onyavar]

[...]Elan would refuse ANY help from him. I agree that Roy in particular would call that dumb. It would be an interesting character question for Elan if he had to choose between Roy and his conscience.

Um... wearing a ring that was created by torturing people to death is bad. Sure, the people that were tortured to death to create it will not get alive if you refuse to wear such a ring...

But by the same logic I can start wearing fur mantels, since the beavers or minks will stay dead whether I buy it or not. Or start eating whale, since the whales will stay dead whether I eat them or not.*
Or clone people and use their organs harvested from them, since "They exist, so we could at least put them to some use!"

Consuming products of an evil industry is promoting evil.
Roy is Lawful, and he is Good, and he has high intelligence. He will know that it's not morally justified to wear such a ring.

*(My example above doesn't mean that fur farmers or whale hunters are evil, but by consuming their products, you also promote their industry.)

[Morph Bark]

I'm talking about the fact that Tarquin is wearing it.

Are you implying his old master once cut his arms and legs off? :smallwink:


Remember that assassin who tried to kill him? In this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0757.html)? Left him with a nasty cut to the face (chin)? The very next strip, the cut was no longer there, and there was no explanation given for what appeared to be an art slip-up; some astute people on the forums made note of this. Well, now we know that he's all healed up because of the Ring of Regeneration.

He probably has to put up with a fair amount of such attempts on his life, and doesn't want to run to Malak every time he gets a gash. Plus, the ability to re-attach body parts is a nifty added bonus, in case assassins, ex-lovers (or both :smallwink:), get any creative ideas.

I noted that, but I never made the connection when he spoke of the ring. Good catch indeed!

[Swordpriest]

What on Earth is a "Chekhov's Gun"?

I assume it's a reference to that boot-licking Russian in Star Trek, but the reference escapes me totally. :smallconfused:

[Shale]

1) It's a reference to Anton Chekhov, one of the greatest playwrights who's ever lived. He had a simple rule for writing details into your script: If there's a gun on the mantle in act one, it had better be fired by the end of act three. From that came "Chekhov's Gun," a term for background details introduced early so they can be important later.

2) "Boot-licking"?

[Tass]

But by the same logic I can start wearing fur mantels, since the beavers or minks will stay dead whether I buy it or not. Or start eating whale, since the whales will stay dead whether I eat them or not.*

By buying it you support the industry and give incentive to continue the practice. By inheriting an old object made from whale bones you don't.

[Vladislav]

I think Belkar will end up with the ring, after he and Tarquin become friends. Later, the Belkster will get knocked to -9 hp, declared dead, thus fulfilling the prophecy, and the ring will bring him back to positive.
My memory is sketchy on this, but I do believe the prophecy was "Belkar will draw his last breath ever". There's quite a stretch from this to "Belkar will be knocked unconscious, someone will mistakenly declare him dead, Belkar will recover shortly thereafter".

[hamishspence]

By buying it you support the industry and give incentive to continue the practice. By inheriting an old object made from whale bones you don't.

By accepting, as a gift, an object made from whale bones from a whale killed by the whaler that's offering it to you though.... seems closer to the Tarquin example.

[Qubanz]

I think it's funny Tarquin says he's not bound by the alignment system, because I could place him in it.

I'd say Tarquin is True Neutral. He's certainly not good, but some of his intents could be considered good, given that his masterplan is to essentially stabilize the part of the continent he wants to rule. Of course he also doesn't shy away from doing any evil things to get his way. So neutral on the good-evil scale (arguably) good intentions (and some good traits probably), evil methods.) And Neutral because he pretty much is the pragmatic sort of 'Whatever works' type of guy.

Although the way alignment works in this comic it's actually almost more like religion, including corresponding afterlives. Which is to say characters aren't at all inhibited by their alignment, but they try to follow it, and how well they do at that impacts their afterlife. In that regard Tarquin's more of an alignment-atheist, come to think of it. With Elan being a ChaoticGoodian, which could be seen as a particular sub-division of general Goodians. And most decent people would try (but not necessarily succeed) to be some flavour of Goodian in de OOTS world. Some like Belkar could be seen as someone who not only not even tries to be good, but revels in being evil, and someone like Miko could be seen as sort of a religious fanatic (Who failed the actual points of her religion-of-being-good due to her zeal.)

Of course you could be a Goodian in the OOTS world and not belief in any gods. But given that gods are actually demonstrably real in the OOTS world that might be considered a bit silly. (For the record, I myself don't believe in any gods. But if I lived in a universe where you can actually scientifically proof gods and even have them allow you to do magic wonders, I obviously would acknowledge they where real.)

So that said... Tarquin may not believe in the alignment system, but given it seems to be sort of a spiritual reality in his world, it'd still have afterlife consequences for him. (Although he probably has things set up so that he can be resurrected anyway.)

[hamishspence]

I think it's funny Tarquin says he's not bound by the alignment system, because I could place him in it.

I'd say Tarquin is True Neutral. He's certainly not good, but some of his intents could be considered good, given that his masterplan is to essentially stabilize the part of the continent he wants to rule. Of course he also doesn't shy away from doing any evil things to get his way. So neutral on the good-evil scale (arguably) good intentions (and some good traits probably), evil methods.)

While it might work for Chaos/Law (as illustrated by the Deva's comments to Roy) it doesn't work that way for Good/Evil in any D&D splatbook I know of. Even Heroes of Horror seems to reserve it for minor evil deeds- such as casting [Evil] spells.

As a general rule, Evil acts + Good intentions = Evil alignment in D&D.

And most of Tarquin's intentions seem to have less to do with "stability" and more to do with pleasing himself.

[Roland Itiative]

He's certainly not good, but some of his intents could be considered good, given that his masterplan is to essentially stabilize the part of the continent he wants to rule.

This is not really a "good action"... Any ruler with just a little common sense would want stability... The stability he's working for is ultimately for his own selfish reasons (he wants to rule the land, without being trounced by other countries because of it). A guy who uses clearly evil methods to keep a stable, but tyrannical, rule over an area is very Lawful Evil. He doesn't need to be evil all the time, just for his own amusement, like Xykon does for the "Evil" label to fit (evil for the evulz being more of a Chaotic trait than a Evil one)...

As for the Ring, I think Belkar would not like to know Elan refused such an item, specially considering what the future holds in store for him :smalltongue:

[Callista]

yep, its horrible...:smallfrown: a dose of pain is a liquid that can be used to replace 3XP. a person can't be milked for more than one dose of pain per day. oh and each person is worth one dose per point of CON. and tarquin wheres something created in such a manor... :smallfurious:So we're talking multiple someones, then...

XP cost for the ring: 3600
Doses of liquid pain required: 1300
Average CON per person: 10.5
People tortured to death for one Ring of Regeneration: 124

[leakingpen]

Um... wearing a ring that was created by torturing people to death is bad. Sure, the people that were tortured to death to create it will not get alive if you refuse to wear such a ring...

But by the same logic I can start wearing fur mantels, since the beavers or minks will stay dead whether I buy it or not. Or start eating whale, since the whales will stay dead whether I eat them or not.*
Or clone people and use their organs harvested from them, since "They exist, so we could at least put them to some use!"

Consuming products of an evil industry is promoting evil.
Roy is Lawful, and he is Good, and he has high intelligence. He will know that it's not morally justified to wear such a ring.

*(My example above doesn't mean that fur farmers or whale hunters are evil, but by consuming their products, you also promote their industry.)


Or, by the same logic, we can use things created by Nazi science. Like... Demerol. Hereditary approaches to medicine. Techniques used to treat amputees, as well as how to amputate when medically necessary to leave as much quality of life as possible (because sometimes not taking enough is worse than taking too much. ) Treatments for various wounds, types of stitches, certain antibiotics....

Ohh, wait, modern medicine already does... It was information created through immoral experiments on unwilling subjects. The definition of evil. But we all benefit from it, every day.


(that said, on the furs, the dead animals would likely never have lived, since the fur industry breeds their animals these days, as opposed to eating whale meat, creating a demand for hunting whales, which were not bred specifically for the purpose. Completely different. As for clones for organ harvesting, how is that evil?)

[hamishspence]

Ohh, wait, modern medicine already does... It was information created through immoral experiments on unwilling subjects. The definition of evil. But we all benefit from it, every day.

The difference is, it's not a case of "If you leave us alone, we'll give you this info".

Making use of something created by those who are dead, is not quite the same as accepting it as a gift from someone who is alive- from this view.

[pendell]

So we're talking multiple someones, then...

XP cost for the ring: 3600
Doses of liquid pain required: 1300
Average CON per person: 10.5
People tortured to death for one Ring of Regeneration: 124

Or, alternatively, 1300 people donating 1 dose apiece. What would be fair compensation for 1 point of constitution? Can it ever be earned back? I'm a bit fuzzy on the mechanics. Is this like donating a kidney which you can't ever get back, or like donating a pint of blood?

Another alternative would be to impose it as part of a judicial sentence. Say, any criminal put to death donates 1 dose of pain before sentence is carried out.

ETA: When did this make it into the rules? The last time I saw a ring of regeneration was second edition, and I don't recall that being the case.

Also: Does a dose of pain have to be donated by human beings? Could you get it from cattle in a stockyard?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Vladislav]

I'd say Tarquin is True Neutral. Which part of "he burns people alive for pleasure" are you having problems placing on the alignment grid?

[tcrudisi]

Which part of "he burns people alive for pleasure" are you having problems placing on the alignment grid?

He's obviously Lawful Neutral. When spelling out ELAN, the E was already burning out, right? Well, once the E burned out, that left us with LAN. I hypothesize that the A burned out second. That leaves us with ... LN! There it is! Proof that Tarquin is Lawful Neutral!

[Dire Moose]

Given all the Star wars references thus far, I think the ring will wind up being used to regenerate Elan's or Tarquin's right hand when it inevitably gets chopped off.

[Onyavar]

Or, by the same logic, we can use things created by Nazi science. Like... Demerol. [...]
Ohh, wait, modern medicine already does... It was information created through immoral experiments on unwilling subjects. The definition of evil. But we all benefit from it, every day.
Of course we profit from other people having done evil things! The history is full of evil people who have done evil things that benefit us today. I don't argue that, and I could also give you many examples, most if not all of them considered as inappropriate discussion of politics/religion on this board.
Plus, it was - if I'm not correct, please tell me - not necessary to torture and kill people to invent Demerol. That was just inhuman testing methods, making the medical progress so much more convenient and faster to some fascist doctors.

My point is: if your medicine, today, was made out of jewish bones, gathered by Nazi scientists, would you use it? I say: NEVER. I would search for a less convenient alternative. (I think there is a Trekkie: Voyager episode on that subject)



(that said, on the furs, the dead animals would likely never have lived, since the fur industry breeds their animals these days, [...] Completely different.
Oh, great, but I guess you will agree: by eating beef and wearing fur, you support the beef and fur industry. By using your computer, you support your electricity supplier.
And by using evil rings, you support those who produce such rings, especially if the people who produced and offer these rings are still alive and will produce more (to have a new spare).


As for clones for organ harvesting, how is that evil?)
*blink*
I'm not one of those people who oppose medical progress. I support scientists who are cloning embryos, since those are accumulations of cells.
I was talking here about the idea of raising human clones so that we can harvest their organs when they are grown up and sentient. As it is promoted by certain scifi movies where the directors didn't bother about depicting real science. I guess my post wasn't too clear on this distinction.

I hope, we're on the same side now?

[SaintRidley]

ETA: When did this make it into the rules? The last time I saw a ring of regeneration was second edition, and I don't recall that being the case.

Brian P.
If you mean with regards to the doses of pain, it's an alternate method of paying crafting XP introduced in the Book of Vile Darkness.

[Swordpriest]

1) It's a reference to Anton Chekhov, one of the greatest playwrights who's ever lived. He had a simple rule for writing details into your script: If there's a gun on the mantle in act one, it had better be fired by the end of act three. From that came "Chekhov's Gun," a term for background details introduced early so they can be important later.

2) "Boot-licking"?

1. Never even thought of Anton Chekhov, I automatically assumed TV Tropes, which I automatically assumed meant something originating with the Chekhov who's so well known in popular culture. Odd to have an expression based around a playwright rather than a movie or TV show in the world we currently inhabit.

2. In the Star Trek comics, at least, they always had Chekhov sucking up to Sulu. "You're so smart, Mr. Sulu!" -- with a reverent, awed look on his face, yet. :smallbiggrin: He must have said that about 2-3 times per comic, it was like his main dialogue in the damn thing. So, the Star Trek comics I read as a youth have firmly fixed Chekhov in my mind as the ship's Chief Toad-Eater. :smallwink:

[pendell]

If you mean with regards to the doses of pain, it's an alternate method of paying crafting XP introduced in the Book of Vile Darkness.

Okay; so a ring of regeneration can be made either with XP or with doses of pain . But you don't absolutely need pain to make an RoR?

Okay. That makes more sense .

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Callista]

Or, alternatively, 1300 people donating 1 dose apiece. What would be fair compensation for 1 point of constitution? Can it ever be earned back? I'm a bit fuzzy on the mechanics. Is this like donating a kidney which you can't ever get back, or like donating a pint of blood?

Another alternative would be to impose it as part of a judicial sentence. Say, any criminal put to death donates 1 dose of pain before sentence is carried out. "Fair compensation for 1 point of constitution" in this case is something along the lines of "fair compensation for 24 hours of torture"; it's not that the extraction process is painful--it's that you can only extract liquid pain from someone who is being tortured by other means. Only very desperate people would ever agree at any price.

The constitution drain is permanent, and so is the likely mental scarring. If it's like donating a kidney, then it's like donating a kidney without anesthesia, and the surgery takes 24 hours.


Also: Does a dose of pain have to be donated by human beings? Could you get it from cattle in a stockyard?Doesn't have to be donated by humans. The target of the spell is "one living creature".

Tarquin, however, is neither using cattle nor draining people of only one or two points of Constitution (either one of which would still be torture or animal cruelty). They've pretty much explicitly stated that Tarquin is "torturing people to death." So he's not using either the animal-cruelty or the torture-as-punishment variants.

[Gnoman]

I automatically assumed TV Tropes, which I automatically assumed meant something originating with the Chekhov who's so well known in popular culture.


Quite apart from the fact that a great many of TV Tropes trope titles actually predate the internet, if not electricity, why would you assume TV Tropes in the first place?

[SaintRidley]

Okay; so a ring of regeneration can be made either with XP or with doses of pain . But you don't absolutely need pain to make an RoR?

Okay. That makes more sense .

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Yep. It's a method created to add a little evil flavour to your everyday magic items.

[Theodoriph]

Yep. It's a method created to add a little evil flavour to your everyday magic items.

Actually, it was a method introduced so LE villains could use awesome lines like "My sword is made from the tears of infants" and be telling the truth :smalltongue:

[KillItWithFire]

Actually, it was a method introduced so LE villains could use awesome lines like "My sword is made from the tears of infants" and be telling the truth :smalltongue:

Well infants make so many tears and no one else is using them. No one said you have to be the source of their crying. I am totally making an industry of that my next D&D session. :smallbiggrin:

[Faldrath]

Changing subjects slightly, while the ring may indeed be useful in the plot, I think the real Chekhov's Gun in this strip is the line "You are my sole remaining son". Given that the Elan family is so attuned to theatrics, it's probably time for the other neglected son to get on the stage, which raises a lot of interesting possibilities (Tarquin thinking that Elan lied, Nale attempting to kill Tarquin instead of Elan, etc.)

[Lord Vukodlak]

I think it's funny Tarquin says he's not bound by the alignment system, because I could place him in it.

I'd say Tarquin is True Neutral. He's certainly not good, but some of his intents could be considered good, given that his masterplan is to essentially stabilize the part of the continent he wants to rule. Of course he also doesn't shy away from doing any evil things to get his way. So neutral on the good-evil scale (arguably) good intentions (and some good traits probably), evil methods.) And Neutral because he pretty much is the pragmatic sort of 'Whatever works' type of guy.

He's still lawful evil, stability through tyranny is still lawful evil. You don't have to have selfish evil goals to be evil. Simply evil methods are enough. "The ends justify the means" is the slogan of many LE style villains. Not every villain does evil out of a belief in evil.

[Douglas]

1. Never even thought of Anton Chekhov, I automatically assumed TV Tropes, which I automatically assumed meant something originating with the Chekhov who's so well known in popular culture. Odd to have an expression based around a playwright rather than a movie or TV show in the world we currently inhabit.

2. In the Star Trek comics, at least, they always had Chekhov sucking up to Sulu. "You're so smart, Mr. Sulu!" -- with a reverent, awed look on his face, yet. :smallbiggrin: He must have said that about 2-3 times per comic, it was like his main dialogue in the damn thing. So, the Star Trek comics I read as a youth have firmly fixed Chekhov in my mind as the ship's Chief Toad-Eater. :smallwink:
*Ahem*

Chekhov's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitlexn9xzsjd5fif?from=Main.ChekhovsGun) should not be confused with Chekov's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleurwof45r56ea).

[Swordpriest]

Quite apart from the fact that a great many of TV Tropes trope titles actually predate the internet, if not electricity, why would you assume TV Tropes in the first place?

Because --

1. TVTropes is constantly being referenced on these boards.
2. I loathe TVTropes and therefore do not visit it, and therefore do not have most of the tropes memorized, or even some of them.
3. Someone cites a two word capitalized descriptor "Chekhov's Gun" with the clear expectation that a TVTropes-addicted forum is likely to understand it, and which sounds like a trope, and is a term I am not familiar with.

Ergo, it is logical that someone citing an unfamiliar trope on a forum which cites TVTropes constantly has a high probability of being citing a TVTrope, which I therefore do not want to look up, despising the site as I do, and which I therefore ask for more explanation here, in order to find out what is being referenced. I received an explanation, which I appreciate.

Good enough?

[hamishspence]

A fairly high proportion of tropes on TV Tropes will be well known terms that predate the site considerably.

There have probably been "tropers" identifying tropes since time immemorial- TV Tropes is just the latest attempt by tropers to categorize a few of them.

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder: Beware political topics in discussions (i.e. Nazis, ethics of whaling/fur industry). That would be bad.

[Douglas]

Because --

1. TVTropes is constantly being referenced on these boards.
2. I loathe TVTropes and therefore do not visit it, and therefore do not have most of the tropes memorized, or even some of them.
3. Someone cites a two word capitalized descriptor "Chekhov's Gun" with the clear expectation that a TVTropes-addicted forum is likely to understand it, and which sounds like a trope, and is a term I am not familiar with.

Ergo, it is logical that someone citing an unfamiliar trope on a forum which cites TVTropes constantly has a high probability of being citing a TVTrope, which I therefore do not want to look up, despising the site as I do, and which I therefore ask for more explanation here, in order to find out what is being referenced. I received an explanation, which I appreciate.

Good enough?
Well, if you despise TVTropes so much you refuse to even look up a single page for an explanation of a term that you want an explanation of, I suppose I'd better explain my pair of links.

"Chekhov's Gun" is the well known trope which has already been explained to you here. "Chekov's Gun" is the gun belonging to Chekov, the Star Trek character. They differ in spelling by one 'h', a minor enough difference that getting it wrong is a common mistake, and someone on tvtropes created a "Chekov's Gun" page as a joke about the common mistake.

Of course, I still have no idea why you despise the site, or why even if you don't like browsing it for its own sake you'd refuse to look it up as the easiest source of an explanation that you do want.

[RedSun]

Changing subjects slightly, while the ring may indeed be useful in the plot, I think the real Chekhov's Gun in this strip is the line "You are my sole remaining son". Given that the Elan family is so attuned to theatrics, it's probably time for the other neglected son to get on the stage, which raises a lot of interesting possibilities (Tarquin thinking that Elan lied, Nale attempting to kill Tarquin instead of Elan, etc.)
Because Tarquin is an experienced adventurer who knows nothing about Resurrection spells or anything similar.

[weckar]

Question: does the ring work if it was on the limb lost? Say, It's on my left hand, that hand gets cut off... will it regenerate?

[Theodoriph]

Well, if you despise TVTropes so much you refuse to even look up a single page for an explanation of a term that you want an explanation of, I suppose I'd better explain my pair of links.

"Chekhov's Gun" is the well known trope which has already been explained to you here. "Chekov's Gun" is the gun belonging to Chekov, the Star Trek character. They differ in spelling by one 'h', a minor enough difference that getting it wrong is a common mistake, and someone on tvtropes created a "Chekov's Gun" page as a joke about the common mistake.

Of course, I still have no idea why you despise the site, or why even if you don't like browsing it for its own sake you'd refuse to look it up as the easiest source of an explanation that you do want.


Generally, I've found that people don't like the site because at the crux of it, it's written poorly.

[Roland Itiative]

He's obviously Lawful Neutral. When spelling out ELAN, the E was already burning out, right? Well, once the E burned out, that left us with LAN. I hypothesize that the A burned out second. That leaves us with ... LN! There it is! Proof that Tarquin is Lawful Neutral!

You're forgetting something very important. The first part of the 'E' to burn out is the lower part, making it an 'F'. Now, we have a villain, showing his love for flan.

http://22.img.v4.skyrock.net/223/gunnm2/pics/342134083_small.jpg (http://battleangel.wikia.com/wiki/Desty_Nova)

And we all (OK, maybe half a dozen of us, tops) know that Desty Nova is Evil.

[Felixc-91]

Or, alternatively, 1300 people donating 1 dose apiece. What would be fair compensation for 1 point of constitution? Can it ever be earned back? I'm a bit fuzzy on the mechanics. Is this like donating a kidney which you can't ever get back, or like donating a pint of blood?

Another alternative would be to impose it as part of a judicial sentence. Say, any criminal put to death donates 1 dose of pain before sentence is carried out.

Also: Does a dose of pain have to be donated by human beings? Could you get it from cattle in a stockyard?

Respectfully,

Brian P.ummmmmm, let me make this clear. donation is not the proper phrase. a dose of pain is generated by torchering someone at least nearly constantly, for a full day. and it may not actually drain con points. just says a person can't have more than one dose extracted per con point.

[Surprise!]

Note Tarquin asks Elan to specify 'someone'. I believe that this is a kicker that it is a Troll (known for regenerative abilities) that was tortured for it.

Just throwing that into the Marvel era grey morality debaters out there.

[the_tick_rules]

Who doesn't love Flan though?

[Callista]

Note Tarquin asks Elan to specify 'someone'. I believe that this is a kicker that it is a Troll (known for regenerative abilities) that was tortured for it.

Just throwing that into the Marvel era grey morality debaters out there.Grey!? That's even worse. You can torture a troll forever. :smalleek:

[Niknokitueu]

Per the SRD...
SRD? (And remember that Rich uses 3rd Ed material in general, and some things are 'adjusted' to work how he wants them to.)

Up to (and including) 2nd Ed, a Ring of Regeneration would bring you back from death...

It doesn't matter if he lost that hand. Since he was wearing the ring while the hand was cut off, the hand will regenerate.
Um, depends on the GM. Down our way, it would be the hand that regenerates a new body. (Joy!)

Does anybody have the Book of Vile Darkness handy? I could swear there's a precedent for powering magic items or spell components or something with people's souls or torture or similar...
Could be made in a number of ways. One campaign I played in had Vampiric Rings of Regeneration require you to do rather nasty things to a Vampire... (and yes, using the ring was an evil act...)

Quite apart from the fact that a great many of TV Tropes trope titles actually predate the internet, if not electricity, why would you assume TV Tropes in the first place?
Heh. TVTropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife) are Older Than You Think (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OlderThanTheyThink).

Anyway, I agree with the general concensus that Tarquin is currently wearing the Ring. Good survival instincts, that man!

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[hamishspence]

SRD? (And remember that Rich uses 3rd Ed material in general, and some things are 'adjusted' to work how he wants them to.)

SRD is all the "open content" for 3.5 ed D&D. It's everything in the books that other publishers are allowed to use as a reference when writing "third party" D&D splatbooks.

[Niknokitueu]

SRD is all the "open content" for 3.5 ed D&D. It's everything in the books that other publishers are allowed to use as a reference when writing "third party" D&D splatbooks.
Ah, righteo. I'll just take back my comments, then. Rings of Regeneration, it seems, have been way down-powered compared to earlier editions.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[Starbuck_II]

Ah, righteo. I'll just take back my comments, then. Rings of Regeneration, it seems, have been way down-powered compared to earlier editions.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

So has regeneration. It no longer regenerates a new body in 3rd edition. Now it just stops them from being killed (since converts to nonlethal damage).

[hamishspence]

And the Ring of Regeneration doesn't even convert lethal to nonlethal- it just makes you heal faster.

[Kalirren]

Tarquin is obviously wearing the Ring of Regeneration for Genre-Savviness purposes. What better way to go out than like Sauron himself?

[leakingpen]

I hope, we're on the same side now?

Ahh, raising sentient clones, yes, would be evil.

yes, doing those things supports those industries.

[Clertar]

XP cost for the ring: 3600
Doses of liquid pain required: 1300
Average CON per person: 10.5
People tortured to death for one Ring of Regeneration: 124

For everything else: Mastercard

xD

[hamishspence]

Oddly, the rules don't actually explicitly state that the process drains CON from the victim-

it only states "the victim can yield no more doses than they have CON points."

Maybe the errata to BoVD clarifies this one?

[Morph Bark]

So has regeneration. It no longer regenerates a new body in 3rd edition. Now it just stops them from being killed (since converts to nonlethal damage).

So basically, in previous editions, DBZ's Cell was possible to pull off, but not so much now.

[snikrept]

At least it makes sense now why the red slash on his face from the Ambassador vanished a couple strips later !

[Hallavast]

Um... wearing a ring that was created by torturing people to death is bad. Sure, the people that were tortured to death to create it will not get alive if you refuse to wear such a ring...

But by the same logic I can start wearing fur mantels, since the beavers or minks will stay dead whether I buy it or not. Or start eating whale, since the whales will stay dead whether I eat them or not.*
Or clone people and use their organs harvested from them, since "They exist, so we could at least put them to some use!"

Consuming products of an evil industry is promoting evil.
Roy is Lawful, and he is Good, and he has high intelligence. He will know that it's not morally justified to wear such a ring.

*(My example above doesn't mean that fur farmers or whale hunters are evil, but by consuming their products, you also promote their industry.)

Wearing the ring doesn't create a demand for more rings (tarquin has 2 anyway). So the analogy doesn't work. Further, that ring probably would be used for evil if Elan doesn't use it to save the world. Also, if I have to use a fur coat to SAVE THE WORLD, it's gonna be done. In a world where global trade happens, don't you think pretty much any item you can't make locally would involve some kind of exploitation somewhere? Does that mean Elan couldn't use anything he didn't produce himself? Good thing Elan is a moron that can't comprehend things like this.

The evil of obtaining that ring is Tarquin's responsibility. Not Elan's.

[King of Nowhere]

My idea is that rich simply forgot to draw the wound on tarquin's face in the strip after he took it, a few strips later he saw it, he tougth about fixing it, but he preferred to mention a ring of regeneration.
Just an opinion

[Hallavast]

My idea is that rich simply forgot to draw the wound on tarquin's face in the strip after he took it, a few strips later he saw it, he tougth about fixing it, but he preferred to mention a ring of regeneration.
Just an opinion

I share this opinion. People do stuff like that all the time.

[semi]

Ok, now I'm confused (and this happens a lot so I'm not too worried about it but I figured I'd ask)...

At one point in this thread someone posted a "Hey, can't you make a Ring of Regeneration through various vile and evil methods" hence the Book of Vile Darkness request.

And it seemed that the consensus was "yeah, you sure can do it that way"

but maybe I've been reading it wrong but it seems that somewhere from "it can be done that way" it's changed to "that's how Tarquin had his created". That's what confused me, this jump that he not only commissioned the creation of a ring but that it must be created by draining the blood of cute puppies or something.

Sorry if I'm not following this thread but I just wanted someone to clear that up for me. As I read the strip, I saw that he only had a ring and didn't see anything specific as to how it was created and that some of the SRD that was quoted on the RoR stated that it was just a ring of white gold and that the use of liquid pain or whatever wasn't a requirement.

thanks.

[Callista]

We assume that's how it was done because the strip has Elan say that Tarquin "probably tortured somebody to death or something to give it magic," and Tarquin replies that he's offended, but then says, "...wait, who would you consider a somebody?" So we assume that he tortured "somebody" (a sentient creature) to death to make the Ring of Regeneration he's talking about; and the only way to do that, mechanically, is to use Liquid Pain as an XP component for crafting.

No, it's not necessary to use Liquid Pain to craft a ring of regeneration; it's just a generic crafting component that's handy if you don't mind setting up a Liquid Pain factory and ditching your conscience (which is probably hanging in sad little scraps by now if you're even considering it, but I digress...)

[semi]

Thanks. I had totally missed or misread what Elan said in the strip previously about the ring. Now all the conjecture makes total sense.

[The Succubus]

Ask Frodo how it worked out for him when someone gave him a seemingly useful ring.

[RecklessFable]

I don't know if this was posted yet, but I think the drama point will be when someone "kills" Tarquin and Elan remembers the ring. If Elan pulls the ring off then he is killing a helpless foe, if not then he is saving a BBEG...

[Callista]

Except Elan isn't honorable enough to worry about helpless foes who are responsible for the deaths of thousands. He'd want to turn his father to good, but if that proved utterly impossible... Elan's not the kind to be THAT stupidly honorable.

[Boogastreehouse]

If the existence of the ring is foreshadowing anything, I suspect that by not wearing it Elan will, in fact, lose an eye, as was suggested in the comic in question (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html), and also foreshadowed here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0502.html). I especially think it fitting that the most idealistic member of the Order of the Stick will eventually face off against the most cynical member of Team Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html), and both of them will be half-blind.


Also, to those who are calculating how many people have to be tortured to craft a ring of regeneration, I feel that the best way to maximize the yield of your victim would be to have him wear a ring of regeneration.

[Felixc-91]

If the existence of the ring is foreshadowing anything, I suspect that by not wearing it Elan will, in fact, lose an eye, as was suggested in the comic in question (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html), and also foreshadowed here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0502.html). I especially think it fitting that the most idealistic member of the Order of the Stick will eventually face off against the most cynical member of Team Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html), and both of them will be half-blind.


Also, to those who are calculating how many people have to be tortured to craft a ring of regeneration, I feel that the best way to maximize the yield of your victim would be to have him wear a ring of regeneration. umm, you do know that Durkon can cast regenerate at this point? its the same level spell as resurrection. why would Elan refuse to be healed?
also as a side note, a ring of regeneration would not alter how many people would have to be torched to get a specific amount of xp. its Con based, and has nothing to do with hit points.

[Boogastreehouse]

umm, you do know that Durkon can cast regenerate at this point? its the same level spell as resurrection. why would Elan refuse to be healed?

Durkon can also cast resurrection. That didn't do Roy very much good. Remember Durkon is scheduled to die before reaching the Dwarven Homelands (which is where I'm expecting Kraagor's gate to be).


also as a side note, a ring of regeneration would not alter how many people would have to be torched to get a specific amount of xp. its Con based, and has nothing to do with hit points.

I wasn't being serious.

[fizzybobnewt]

I think Belkar will end up with the ring, after he and Tarquin become friends. Later, the Belkster will get knocked to -9 hp, declared dead, thus fulfilling the prophecy, and the ring will bring him back to positive.

...and he will hold his breath for the rest of his life.
The prophecy calls for him to breath his last breath, ever. So, no normal resurrections or the like that get him back to functioning normally. Zombification remains an option, though...

[Felixc-91]

Durkon can also cast resurrection. That didn't do Roy very much good. Remember Durkon is scheduled to die before reaching the Dwarven Homelands (which is where I'm expecting Kraagor's gate to be).
i fail to see the point of this statement. if he's going to lose an eye to T then its probably going to be before they reach Girard's gate, or possible just after. you really think Durkon is going to die that soon? and how did that resurection spell not help Roy much?

[Niknokitueu]

i fail to see the point of this statement. if he's going to lose an eye to T then its probably going to be before they reach Girard's gate, or possible just after. you really think Durkon is going to die that soon? and how did that resurection spell not help Roy much?
Well, given that Roy died and stayed dead for several months...

What the poster was probably alluding to was a deus ex machina to keep durkon from being able to heal Elan.

Mind you, I agree with you that that sequence of events is highly unlikely to occur. Elan and Tarquin calling them out had effectively turned the prospect into a Subverted Trope (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SubvertedTrope). (Mind you, I will admit that it is still quite possible that Rich will play it straight, making it a Standard Trope (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnArmAndALeg). Just IMO not the most likely possibility.)

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu