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View Full Version : WH 40K vs War (Not a verses Thread)



DMfromTheAbyss
2010-11-29, 09:04 PM
Alright in my ongoing campaign the following came up, when I allowed a character to play an Eldar (straight from WH 40k) in what is effectively a D&D game.

He and his unit fell through a Warp acident into a different world of High fantasy, had some trouble adapting, his unit was devoured by star-monsters (Asteroid monsters from Spelljammer) and after barely surviving he ended joining up with the PC's for many fun adventures. He eventually looked into it and found out his fallen unit was taken to somewhere called "Arvandor" instead of tormented forever by the chaos gods, they were actually happy. (so much so they refused resurection) He eventually kind of started fitting in. After a while he encountered a godlike "being" that was effectively the Avatar of all Conflict. After the party managed to get past him..In an off hand comment he told this being about where he was from, and much to his shock the being smiled and mentioned taking a trip there to go recruiting for his ultimate war (think Ragnarok on steroids).

So were this being to go into the Warhammer 40K universe, what do you the playground think would happen?

For reference he's far from undeafeatable, but I find it unlikely that the WH 40K universe would be able to handle him. Effectively he's a "god" who gains power and strength from all conflict. The bigger the weapons the more he likes being hit by them, the more he's outnumbered the faster he gets. He can effectively manipulate time and space at whim and is effectively immune to any sort of mental effect, psionics, instant death, fear, Physics etc. He can effectively throw around black holes and stand on the surface of a sun without so much as a muscle strain or a suntan.

Now before I go on about how he can't be beaten blah blah.. his weak point is Love, kindness, being moral and reasonable. Basically a guy who can resist his own hostile, warlike urges and walk away from a fight has little to fear from him. A holy man, pacifist style of enemy like Ghandi would be his nightmare. School children gathering around him for a "KumBaiiYaa" song would easily incapacitate him and send him packing.

Now if someone tried knifing him after that he'd be fine, a real pick me up for him. If they set off a nuke while he's so weakened BAM and he's back to full power. But if they continue being kind and or reasonable he gets all pathetic and shy and has to bugger off, unlikely to return.

So he would likely go around, cleansing the warp, killing Chaos gods and trying to recruit "true Warriors" from all the factions/armies.

How do you think that would go.. any factions that would join him or would this basically end in the WH40k's universal destruction, or after all the rampant destruction would anyone from the universe where there is only WAR be able to "stop" WAR himself?

randomhero00
2010-11-29, 09:09 PM
Wow, complicated situation...which is why I never let my players play an outside race like that :)

Really, anything can happen. Its up to you. Remember, DnD has bad#ss gods too. There's also the Far Realm to take into account.

tyckspoon
2010-11-29, 09:11 PM
About half the galaxy would end up following him for some reason or another (doomsday cults, Orks, the other dozen or so groups that just like to fight, Orks) and the other half would be dead. Except for some small groups of Eldar and maybe the Tau, who would go all reasonable on him. And then get run over by his massive horde of bloodthirsty followers anyway.

DeltaEmil
2010-11-29, 09:44 PM
Some followers and daemon princes of Khorne do exactly that. They get stronger the more bloodshed there is.

However, even they get sometimes defeated by sheer heroic willpower of the other inhabitants of the Wh40k-galaxy, so everything goes.

Or in other words, everything can be defeated under whatever circumstances.

Even immortal star-eels with terminator-cyberman-hybrid-slaves that battled all of creation made by space frogs 60 million years ago before psychic jellyfish started eating almost all sentient life and ended the war in heaven.

EleventhHour
2010-11-29, 09:48 PM
I'd saaay... Khorne happens.

And he (WAR) becomes Cultist #1, and everyone else dies in flames.

Tiki Snakes
2010-11-29, 10:19 PM
He gets the plane-shift not-quite-right, and it turns out the eldar are actually responsible for another of the Warp Gods. HewasKhorneallalonglol


Essentially, he's either kurbstomped by the insanely OTT inhabitants of the setting, (After making perhaps decent dent).
Or he's subsumed into Khorne (who already has this 'portfolio', pretty much spot on).

Given that the 40k universe runs on the power of belief, amongst other things, I suspect he'd find it frustratingly difficult to get a real foothold. You won't get the Ork's worshipping him, because he's just not Orky enough (and Gork and Mork are potentially the most powerful such entities due to the sheer weight of Ork's and the strength of their belief), and all the other major factions already have their allegiances pretty firmly pegged out.

The decider would be numbers. Even if he tried to take Khorne out of the picture directly, the problem would be that even Khorne has allies, and the other Chaos Gods would more than just complicate matters.

IMO, anyway.

Personally, I prefer the first option. Because everything is better when it's all the space-elves fault. :smallwink:

DMfromTheAbyss
2010-11-29, 11:12 PM
All of this is assuming WAR got to the WH40k Universe.. assuming it were possible to cross him over as it were, assuming Khorne isn't one of his aspects or something weird.

Actually just a clarification. Khorne is similar, embodying the gory aspects of war and killing. (Blood for the Blood God!)

This particular divine being however is known for and was made for taking out Pantheons of Gods becouse he embodies all aspects of conflict, both positive and negative. Every time a seedling pushes through to sunlight he gets some power. Every Dark Chaos God anihilating a planet, he gets some power. As long as there is conflict.. or going to be fighting, he lives on. Theoretically he's the neigh on ultimate killing machine puzzle monster. Much like nuclear war, the only way to beat him is not to play. Until you figure him out, and unless you're essentially willing to play nice, be all calm and zen and not fall into a fight with him (after he insults you and or badly injures you) you will lose. Unless of course you join him.. or are willing to talk it out (he hates that).

I don't think the Chaos gods, the Necrons and all their sun god "things" of increadible power put togeather, with all their warfleets, with nearly infinite minions and a violent intentions would last very long. This is one case of fighting by definition not being an option. The bigger the numbers and strength you have, the more you can count on losing. This is WH40K's worse nightmare.. their being tuned to "overpowered" works against them with this guy.

I'm actually thinking the belief thing would work in his favor.. being war incarnate.. in WH40k... yeah you might believe in this guy or that.. but pretty sure all the sides can agree they believe in WAR,

Comically enough I'm thinking the orcs would go over to him in record time.. He likes orcs, he wears red.. looks taller than Gork and Mork and after a few headbuts back and forth to establish his WAAGGH is as big as he wants it they'd probably form up without bothering to ask too many any questions.

The Humans are one of my big questions, the emperor and the space marines.. would they go down fighting. Would their ultimate unshakable loyalty once more have exactly 50% of them go turncoat?

Also what would happen with the chaos marines and demons after(if) their gods fall.. or would the Warp being "cleansed" get rid of them?

Or would any of the Chaos gods sign up.. limitless carnage, all the power and reality you can want to rampage through at the low low price of bending a knee.


Even immortal star-eels with terminator-cyberman-hybrid-slaves that battled all of creation made by space frogs 60 million years ago before psychic jellyfish started eating almost all sentient life and ended the war in heaven.


There's also the Far Realm to take into account.

AHA it all makes sense now.. best explanation of the Far Realms Ever:smallbiggrin:

DeltaEmil
2010-11-29, 11:47 PM
Fool, I am the weasel Warhammer 40k is the Far Realms.

The Glyphstone
2010-11-29, 11:49 PM
So, you've decided that he is invincible, invulnerable, and basically auto-wins against everyone in WH40K universe - because 'defeat through kindness' in 40K is like making a otherwise-immortal homebrew D&D race with the 'weakness' of "instantly dies to depleated uranium .50 caliber rifle bullets". What are you asking us for?:smallconfused:

For that matter, you're misinterpreting Khorne. Khorne is exactly how you're describing this guy - he gains power from all conflict, all fighting, all war. As long as there's a single warrior in the universe, or a single sentient being that could even consider violence as a solution to their problems, Khorne is immortal, because he is literally a sentient embodiment of violent emotions. He's also technically the god of honor, valor, and courage (the "good" side of violence), but that gets buried under the KILLMAIMBURN savagery of his followers. Khorne already controls the portfolio that WAR would present, and he has the home-field advantage. WAR's only unquestionable advantage is that he is physical, and thus has a much wider-ranging field to wreak havoc in...but he can't tangle with Khorne directly unless he goes into the Eye and promptly gets curbstomped, and all the chaos and destruction he causes himself will..feed Khorne and make him stronger. it's more likely that WAR is an aspect of Khorne, not the other way around - the Chaos Gods are different than D&D gods because they reverse God Needs Prayer Badly - they exist and draw strength from sentient emotions, but followers create a self-sustaining feedback loop of power and let them act outside the Warp by proxy.

(besides, wearing Red wouldn't draw Orcs. They'd consider him very fast, but unless he's Green, he isn't Orky enough for them. He'd be an excellent tuff fight though.)

DMfromTheAbyss
2010-11-30, 01:15 AM
I'm not asking who wins. As in the Title this is not a verses thread.. it's a what the heck do you think would happen next thread? I'm asking for input from people more familiar with the subject matter (40K)than myself.

So I'm basically asking how the various factions/races would respond to WAR's arrival, his recruitment speech, and the various side effects having him in the WH40k universe would cause. (amoung other things the probable cleansing of the warp and destruction/cleansing of the chaos gods)

I'm totally willing to buy that the Tau and Eldar would be relatively untouched. Both have the capacity to not attack something they don't understand, even if provoked.

The Orcs sound like his kinda people, I'm thinking recruitment an almost given.

Chaos still leaves a lot unanswered. Though I am starting to think Khorne and War are a bit too close concept/power wise for it to be a real fight between them, I think it might be more of an absorbtion thing, as they are starting to sound like different universes versions of the same thing. So assuming the physical embodiment of war meets up with, absorbs and becomes the "non-corrupted" version of Khorne.. only.. still totally able to rampage wherever he feels like thanks to his physical body.. oh yeah and still wanting to recruit warriors for his otherdimensional crusade.. so basically same as before, unless Khorne could be cleansed, sign up and join him as a seperate entity.. not sure which is worse.....

Lotsa suposition here any more ideas are welcome.. thanks you all have helped a lot so far.

Though I'm still real curious about the Imperials and space marines.. any other sides.. thinking tyranids would be.. no real idea there. :smallsigh:

Goonthegoof
2010-11-30, 02:24 AM
I'm totally willing to buy that the Tau and Eldar would be relatively untouched. Both have the capacity to not attack something they don't understand, even if provoked.

The Orcs sound like his kinda people, I'm thinking recruitment an almost given.

Chaos still leaves a lot unanswered. Though I am starting to think Khorne and War are a bit too close concept/power wise for it to be a real fight between them, I think it might be more of an absorbtion thing, as they are starting to sound like different universes versions of the same thing. So assuming the physical embodiment of war meets up with, absorbs and becomes the "non-corrupted" version of Khorne.. only.. still totally able to rampage wherever he feels like thanks to his physical body.. oh yeah and still wanting to recruit warriors for his otherdimensional crusade.. so basically same as before, unless Khorne could be cleansed, sign up and join him as a seperate entity.. not sure which is worse.....


Except it would be pretty much impossible to recruit the orks, given that he isn't one himself. It's very easy to manipulate them, but getting them to actively follow a non-ork is pretty much impossible. All they'd see WAR as is a good fight.

Eldan
2010-11-30, 03:38 AM
In some interpretations of the fluff, the Orks are basically the galaxy's immune system. They don't join anyone else because he enjoys conflict, because he is not an ork. Simple.
Instead, whenever a single threat to the galaxy becomes too big, the orks respond in kind, growing to a level sufficient to take it down, then dying back down through infighting.

EleventhHour
2010-11-30, 04:26 AM
=I=mperium : Alien, has to die, aaattaaaack.
Eldar : Don't touch our stuff, we won't touch you. (Unless the future says so.)
Orkz : DA'S A GUD FIGHT
Chaos : ...So many things. So many. Irons in the fire. All of them.
Chaos-Tzeentch : It's part of the plan. I also know everything you're thinking. I have to go chop off my leg, though. Excuse me.
Chaos-Slaanesh : ...Soo, what cha doin' after the war?
Chaos-Khorne : ...Stop stealing my thing. Minions, ATTACK!
Chaos-Nurgle : Aw, come give grandpappy Nurgle a hug. These virulent plagues are totally good for you!
Dark Eldar : Shh. We're hiding.
Tau : ...Us too. We'll stay here, you stay there. It's for the Greater Good.
Necrons : We have stargods, too. Ex-ter-min-ate.
Tyranids : You is noms. We eat you. Ohmnomnom. Ship sized bugs, small bugs, big bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs eat yooou...

Hmm... I don't think I'm missing anyone. None of the main factions, anyway.

hunt11
2010-11-30, 05:08 AM
War sounds just like Khorne lite. War can only draw power from war but Khorne draws power from the source of war and conflict, anger, hate, and fury. For example if I was to kill someone in a war then War would get strength from both the killing, and the more likely emotions that cause said action, and result from said action, also Khorne has none of the weakness that War would have.

Psyx
2010-11-30, 06:19 AM
He's clearly an unknowing minion of Khorne. Or an amateur upstart. Certainly no competition for the big K, and a bug on the galaxy's windscreen.


Seriously: one of many gods on a single planet can then burst out into the 40k galaxy, putting the other chaos god to heel? I think not. He's a tiny fish in a big big pond.

The Glyphstone
2010-11-30, 10:11 AM
Not to mention his overpowering abilities are rather weaksauce in retrospect. Throw around black holes? The Imperium has weaponized black holes, called vortex grenades. Stand on the surface of a sun? The C'tan eat suns, as snack food. Being immune to psionics is a minimum requirement to survive against sorcerers or librarians, and you hope that their power to break immunities isn't better than your immunity. And ultimately, trying to kill the Chaos Gods is a guaranteed failure, because physics don't apply in the Warp, and neither does anything else, only the will you can exert on your surroundings. It's perfectly within, say, Tzeentch's perview to simply say "in here, the words 'immunity to instant death and psionics' actually mean 'a crippling allergy to fluffy rabbits'. If you had listed 'snickerdoodleyfluffer' as one of your abilities, that would have worked. Instead, face Mr. Bun Bun and watch your internal organs leak out your pores. Just as planned."

Eldan
2010-11-30, 10:14 AM
Trying to kill the gods is pointless, really.

Why?
Planning to kill a god is ambitious and strengthens Tzeentch.
Attacking a god is aggressive and strengthens Khorne.
Replacing a god is a development and strengthens Nurgle.
And, uhm, a lot of people strengthen Slaanesh all the time.

Sir Swindle89
2010-11-30, 10:23 AM
Except it would be pretty much impossible to recruit the orks, given that he isn't one himself. It's very easy to manipulate them, but getting them to actively follow a non-ork is pretty much impossible. All they'd see WAR as is a good fight.

Hard to get them to join you but easy to get them to beat you in the face and apparently thats all this dude need to gain power.

comicshorse
2010-11-30, 10:29 AM
Seems to me the only race that would welcome him would be the Eldar. They already worship Khaine as the god of violence ( among other gods) and have shrines which contain a living Avatar of the Bloody Handed God which can be roused in times of war and is capable of going toe-to-toe with a greater demon ( If they've changed this since last I read the baclground I apologize).
This his best place, he won't take on Khorne, as fundamentally he IS Khorne but he could carve out his own area of influence and it dovetails nicely with the Eldar P.C. returning with a powerful ally to help save his people

The Glyphstone
2010-11-30, 11:17 AM
Trying to kill the gods is pointless, really.

Why?
Planning to kill a god is ambitious and strengthens Tzeentch.
Attacking a god is aggressive and strengthens Khorne.
Replacing a god is a development and strengthens Nurgle.
And, uhm, a lot of people strengthen Slaanesh all the time.

'Cause this guy would totally have an awesome heavy-metal soundtrack, and Slaanesh's portfolio includes really loud music. I'm sure that is what you were talking about.:smallcool: