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Dsurion
2010-11-30, 07:10 PM
Would the game become horribly imbalanced if full BAB classes instead got +2 every level, 3/4 BAB characters got +1, and everyone else moved to 3/4 progression?

I'm just asking from the perspective of a non-optimizer, who never plays fullcasters and doesn't particularly care for play beyond E6.

Shadowleaf
2010-11-30, 07:18 PM
It's kinda pointless - at higher levels, you are either stupidly hard or stupidly easy to hit - either you bother with the AC race (and therefore invest resources), or you simply give up.

Increasing BAB would just decrease interest in AC. AC is already falling behind on equal levels of optimization - no reason to give BAB a boost.

Psyren
2010-11-30, 07:19 PM
Would the cap on iterative attacks still be 4? And would you gain extra attacks faster with this change, or would the "milestones" stay the same? (e.g. 12 BAB = 2 attacks)

gbprime
2010-11-30, 07:21 PM
Yes.

It's hard enough already to make an AC high enough to challenge the main tank of the party and still be hittable by anyone else. Raising the ratio from 1/3 more BAB to DOUBLE the BAB would worsen it. Anything that was hard to hit for a fighter would be natural-20-only for anyone else.

Or on the flipside, nobody would ever MISS. If you want that in your game, just don't buff your monsters' AC.

out of curiosity, why do you perceive the need for the change?

Dsurion
2010-11-30, 07:28 PM
Would the cap on iterative attacks still be 4? And would you gain extra attacks faster with this change, or would the "milestones" stay the same? (e.g. 12 BAB = 2 attacks)I'm not instituting this, it's purely theory. But I'd probably keep iterative attacks at the levels they're at without regard to BAB.


out of curiosity, why do you perceive the need for the change?
No reason, really. Just pondering. Like I said, I, along with my group, do not, and likely will not ever optimize very hard, and just wondered what the consequences might be if that were changed.

Psyren
2010-11-30, 07:37 PM
If iteratives stay where they are, then this is just a flat bonus to attack, like everyone being given scaling magic weapons or something at first level. And either AC will cease to matter (resulting in rocket-tag for melee) or you scale AC up too and nothing changes. So I don't really see what this accomplishes.

I guess some PrCs might be easier to enter (unless you scale up requirements too.)

SurlySeraph
2010-11-30, 07:50 PM
Power Attack with Shock Trooper becomes an even better investment
Pretty much all touch attack spells ever will hit
Rogues can actually pick up Weapon Finesse at 1st level
A few feats with high BAB requirements become much easier to get; Robilar's Gambit, for example.
A lot of PrCs become much easier to qualify for. This is generally a good thing, but potentially worrisome with Abjurant Champion, Divine Crusader, Warshaper, Eternal Blade, and a few others.

There are some potentially worrying consequences in E6. Changeling [Full BAB class] 4/ Warshaper 2 is already a pretty strong build, and something like Barbarian 1/ Crusader 1/ Warshaper 4 would be terrifying. Duskblade 3/ Abjurant Champion 3 could be pretty strong, though the BAB increase for everyone else nicely offsets the AbjChamp's bonus to the AC granted by spells it casts.

@V: Good point. Plus Duskblades don't have any particularly good abjurations on their 1st and 2nd-level lists anyway.

Coidzor
2010-11-30, 08:00 PM
Duskblade 3/ Abjurant Champion 3 could be pretty strong, though the BAB increase for everyone else nicely offsets the AbjChamp's bonus to the AC granted by spells it casts.

:smalltongue: You're looking at it backwards, it now means that the Abjurant Champion's boost to the AC granted by its spells barely keeps up with the opposition. Anything that is necessary to achieve parity with its opposition isn't OP anymore, since it is now only an advantage relative to the disadvantage of other PCs rather than an advantage relative to the advantage of opponents' to-hit bonuses.