Ring of regeneration made via torture: huh?

[Just Joseph]

Okay, I've checked the D20 SRD, and it says creation of a ring of regeneration merely requires a Regenerate spell, and that spell's description in turn says nothing about torturing or killing anyone.

So what am I missing? Is there another method I'm not aware of enchanting a ring, which involves such torture?

[Eldan]

The Book of Vile Darkness might allow that (I think there's a method of draining XP via torture), but generally, I'd just assume this is a fluff explanation.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

No, it's a way of extending a torture session. Ask a question, be refused an answer, chop off a finger, let the ring grow the finger back, repeat from the beginning.

A normal person can only lose a maximum of ten fingers and ten toes. But with a Ring of Regeneration you can lose hundreds of fingers and toes over time. And other important bits. :smalleek:

[hamishspence]

Bonus evil points if you use top-of-the-line Dominate magic (or nearest equivalent) to magically compel the person to do the torture to themselves.

In Village of the Damned, the Children do this sort of thing regularly to anyone who's offended them. Only without the regeneration.

[factotum]

Okay, I've checked the D20 SRD, and it says creation of a ring of regeneration merely requires a Regenerate spell, and that spell's description in turn says nothing about torturing or killing anyone.

So what am I missing? Is there another method I'm not aware of enchanting a ring, which involves such torture?

Bear in mind this is something Elan said--he wouldn't know how you enchant a Ring of Regeneration if you gave him a 53-page manual with illustrations and an accompanying tutorial video! Besides, it was said more along the lines of, "I don't want your stinky ring anyway, you probably dropped it in dog poop or something.".

[Damaris]

Yeah, but Tarquin's next reply confims that Elan's notion was right.

[SPoD]

So what am I missing?

The fact that the author does not feel the need to limit himself to the content of the rulebooks in order to make a joke. And that such "soul-powered" magic items are a staple of fantasy literature.

Oh, and the Book of Vile Darkness thing, too, I guess.

[Swordpriest]

Yeah, but Tarquin's next reply confims that Elan's notion was right.

On top of that, he effectively stated that he doesn't consider most people to be anybody :smallwink: .... "who do you consider a 'somebody'?" :smalleek:

[MightyTim]

No, it's a way of extending a torture session. Ask a question, be refused an answer, chop off a finger, let the ring grow the finger back, repeat from the beginning.

A normal person can only lose a maximum of ten fingers and ten toes. But with a Ring of Regeneration you can lose hundreds of fingers and toes over time. And other important bits. :smalleek:

I had assumed this too, but when I read it again, Elan didn't say that Tarquin probably used the ring to torture someone, he said that he probably tortured someone to give the ring power. So yeah, I'm going to go with the assumption that it was probably a fluff explanation.


On top of that, he effectively stated that he doesn't consider most people to be anybody .... "who do you consider a 'somebody'?"

I think this is just another example of Tarquin not wanting to outright lie, but still hide the truth of his actions. (Not unlike sending soldiers to the battle)

[SaintRidley]

The Book of Vile Darkness has an item in it called Liquid Pain. It's extracted via torture and can be used to substitute for normal crafting experience when making an item.

That's what is being referred to.

[Kurald Galain]

So what am I missing? Is there another method I'm not aware of enchanting a ring, which involves such torture?

Perhaps you should read Fullmetal Alchemist...

[Alagaesian]

On top of that, he effectively stated that he doesn't consider most people to be anybody :smallwink: .... "who do you consider a 'somebody'?" :smalleek:

Maybe he's referring to a person who actually has relevance to the plot. If they aren't important and no one knows them, then they're a nobody, not a somebody. I suppose Tarquin would know better than to torture someone plot-related. That's just asking for one of their relatives to come in and seek revenge against him.

[Azuyomi244]

Maybe he used torture to get someone to make it magic?

[golentan]

Maybe he used torture to get someone to make it magic?

What a brilliant idea! Let's torture a full caster then give him back his spellbooks and enough materials to make a magic ring!

I'd guess liquid pain or fluffles.

[FoE]

Look, it's a homebrewed magic item. Simple.

[hamishspence]

Given that the BoVD has appeared in-strip at least once:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html

it seems plausible as the source of Elan's idea that torture was used to make the ring.

[Akal Saris]

Look, it's a homebrewed magic item. Simple.

Poppycock! All things in this comic must have a reference source somewhere in the 50+ official rulebooks to prove their existence!

But yeah, this sounded like 2E-style magic item creation to me, where you had to do weird things to make your items. A ring of regeneration probably required the Regenerate spell, the hand of a troll, the 'essence of torture', three tears from a saint, and a gecko's gonads.

[The Pilgrim]

Okay, I've checked the D20 SRD, and it says creation of a ring of regeneration merely requires a Regenerate spell, and that spell's description in turn says nothing about torturing or killing anyone.

But it doesn't say you can't torture or/and kill someone while at it, don't it?

If Virgin's Blood (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0625.html) is like table salt, torturing somebody to death may be, like, black pepper or something. Tarquin looks like the kind of guy who likes his food spicy.

[Callista]

I figured this in another topic, but I'll re-post here.

Liquid Pain is a drug that can be used as an XP component during item crafting. Each dose is worth 3 XP, and it is extracted using a level 4 spell with a casting time of 24 hours on a creature in extreme pain, generally from being tortured. (There's also a Liquid Pain extractor magic item that does the torture and creation of the drug all in one.) Torture to create Liquid Pain drains Constitution permanently, one point per dose of the drug.

Recipe for a Ring of Regeneration:
XP cost for the ring: 3600
Doses of liquid pain required: 1300
Average CON per person: 10.5
People tortured to death for one Ring of Regeneration: 124

[King of Nowhere]

I think that idea of liquid pain used to pay for xp is game-breaking. That way, an evil character will be able to build all the magic items he want without paying xp.
And also a good character, on the line of "hello mr farmer-who-gains-1gp-per-month, I'm a powerful mage and I want to create a powerful item, but the itemn creation requires that i slowly torture someone to death to get the essence of their pain to use in the item's creation. I'm willing to pay you 1000 gp for that, plus a resurrection spell after. I also offer a memory-erasing spell so that you won't have to remember it. And you and your family will be rich afterwards. Deal?".

EDIT: I posted this before reading last post, there's no way a good guy can afford to pay for that much CON drain. He's better off paying xp.

Still looks like very game breaking.

[Katuko]

EDIT: I posted this before reading last post, there's no way a good guy can afford to pay for that much CON drain. He's better off paying xp.

Still looks like very game breaking.
Actually, I got the impression it was the victim that was losing CON from the extraction, not the caster.

There is, however, no way a good character can follow through with the whole torture deal without either changing their alignment or paying truly massive amounts of gold for the resurrections (10,000 a piece). Resurrection also drains a level from the target, CON if the target was 1st level when resurrected. This means that you waste not only time and gold, but also precious CON needed for additional doses of Liquid Pain.

You are better off just doing it the evil way, or buying the ring directly.
124 doses with Resurrection = 12,400,000 (apparently) + 90,000 gold for the ring ritual itself.
Buying the ring directly: 90,000 gold + 3600 XP loss.

With Raise Dead as a poor man's substitute the ring will "only" cost 6,200,000 additional gold, but it still requires you to track down 120+ willing targets of prolonged torture and multiple resurrections, with guaranteed stat loss from the procedure. Not many would do that willingly, leaving only the evil way of doing it through Liquid Pain.

[Callista]

That many willing victims are impossible to find; and even if you could find them, can you imagine the mental anguish inflicted on the victim, let alone the person who has to do the torturing?

Just pay the XP to craft the ring and you skip all of that pain. There's just no real reason why someone would use Liquid Pain to craft things unless they were as ridiculously evil as Tarquin is.

BTW: Not broken. If you're going to kill a few hundred people, you've got to do it one point of CON per day, one person at a time, so it takes a while and you've got to practically set up a Liquid Pain factory. You can bet the local paladins are going to take issue with that.

[Dr.Epic]

No, it's a way of extending a torture session. Ask a question, be refused an answer, chop off a finger, let the ring grow the finger back, repeat from the beginning.

A normal person can only lose a maximum of ten fingers and ten toes. But with a Ring of Regeneration you can lose hundreds of fingers and toes over time. And other important bits. :smalleek:

How does that give it magic powers? Elan says "Yeah right. Like I would use your crazy evil ring that youprobably, like, tortured somebody to death or something to give it magic." The ring would have to have magical properties first of all so how could torturing someone and then having the ring heal them give the ring which is already magical magic powers?

[zql]

I thought that he tortured some cleric to make him enchant the ring or something.

[Demonicbunny]

We don't know exactly what he tortured tp make the ring.

It could be an elemental.

There is also the option that this is an old-school ring of regeneration that contains the liquified (but still living) remains of a troll.

[Callista]

Has to be a "living creature" (as per the target of the spell), and Tarquin implies that it is a "someone" (at least in Elan's reckoning), so it was probably a bunch of humanoids. With the kind of diversity we've been seeing, they were probably everything from lizardmen to humans to the odd elf.

[Durgok]

I thought that he tortured some cleric to make him enchant the ring or something.

That is the way I see it. Torture someone until they finally agree to take the XP cost and make the ring of regeneration for Tarquin.

The other explainations seem somewhat complicated.

[Callista]

Using Liquid Pain as a crafting component is actually not unusual at all for Evil spellcasters; they hate losing caster levels, hate losing XP, and don't mind slaughtering a few villages. It's a very good deal, if you don't count the fact that you have to be minus a conscience to try it.

[snikrept]

If you're extracting something called Liquid Pain, of *course* you're going to have an evil factory to go with it, complete with a pen full of tortured slaves and a slew of factory-themed evil deathtraps to fight on top of while you duel the hero. I mean come on, what sort of two bit evil overlord would consider anything else!

EDIT heck, that's probably why he set all those guys on fire. Extra Liquid Pain for the ringworks, bonus that he sends a big message to his son.

[Coidzor]

A spin on the DMG 2 rituals to create magical items, perhaps?


I think that idea of liquid pain used to pay for xp is game-breaking. That way, an evil character will be able to build all the magic items he want without paying xp

How do you think villains get all of that nice, nifty shiny loot for adventurers? :smallamused:

[Jimorian]

I now feel an irrational desire to create a muscle-building supplement called Liquid Pain��™, just so I can use the very obvious sales slogan for it. :smalleek:

[Sholos]

I think that idea of liquid pain used to pay for xp is game-breaking. That way, an evil character will be able to build all the magic items he want without paying xp.
And also a good character, on the line of "hello mr farmer-who-gains-1gp-per-month, I'm a powerful mage and I want to create a powerful item, but the itemn creation requires that i slowly torture someone to death to get the essence of their pain to use in the item's creation. I'm willing to pay you 1000 gp for that, plus a resurrection spell after. I also offer a memory-erasing spell so that you won't have to remember it. And you and your family will be rich afterwards. Deal?".

EDIT: I posted this before reading last post, there's no way a good guy can afford to pay for that much CON drain. He's better off paying xp.

Still looks like very game breaking.

You think taking more than three years to get the required XP to make one ring is game breaking? Remember, just one casting of the spell takes 24 hours. That's 1300 days to get enough doses to counteract the XP loss for a Regen ring. Unless I'm misreading Callista's post. Even if it's one person per day, that's still several months. Several months that you could probably easily go out and get that XP in other, more profitable ways (and quicker, too).

[leakingpen]

Okay, the con drain is from the VICTIM, not the caster.

In addition, if you are running an evil empire, you have a lot of people that you are torturing ANYWAYS! Its not so much making liquid pain, as that it happens to be a byproduct of what you are busy doing ANYWAYS.

[malloyd]

What a brilliant idea! Let's torture a full caster then give him back his spellbooks and enough materials to make a magic ring!.

You don't necessarily have to torture the spellcaster.

"Look into this crystal ball, and you can see us torturing your younger daughter at a secure location. But tell you what, we'll trade what's left of her for a ring of regeneration" could work. "Hail oh High Priest of the Temple of Evil. We've got these 200 prisoners we were going to just execute, but we'll donate them to your Agony For God program in exchange for a ring, as long as you promise they'll be dead by the end of the year" has potential too.

[Lamech]

Can't you just restore the con lost to torture, via restoration traps? Also there are magic items that allow the automated liqued pain gathering. Get some dedicated wrights and you got your own extracter going. Learn True creation and you no longer need to pay GP costs!

[Callista]

Can't you just restore the con lost to torture, via restoration traps? Also there are magic items that allow the automated liqued pain gathering. Get some dedicated wrights and you got your own extracter going. Learn True creation and you no longer need to pay GP costs!No, it's permanent drain. Only restorable via Miracle or Wish, one point per casting.

[hamishspence]

I've checked and there's nothing in the description of the Liquid Pain spell or the Pain Extractor, that says they drain Con.

In the Pain As Power section, it says "A creature cannot produce more doses than they have Con points"

This may mean, that use of either the spell or the item, doesn't drain Con- but once you've drained the maximum number of doses, any more attempts simply don't work.

Plus, since it says a creature "must be tortured a full day to distill a dose" this means you can't get much at a time.

the Liquid Pain spell itself has a 1 day casting time- and extracts all the pain of that day as 1 dose.

[Callista]

Yeah, that's badly worded. It looks exactly like it should be permanent CON drain, but then stops just barely short of coming out and saying it. Highly annoying.

[hamishspence]

Normally, Greater Restoration can restore "ability drain". I'm not sure if there are any forms of ability drain explicitly called out as un-restorable.

There are two monsters which inflict un-restorable Hit Point Drain though- even Wish won't give you those hit points back. The Lavawight, and the Shape of Fire- both epic monsters.

[Aldrakan]

I believe the Baldur's Gate games have a ring of regeneration made with the brain of a troll soaked in brine. That's AD&D based of course.

[Estelindis]

Well-noted re. the Liquid Pain, Callista. I had one villain use it during a campaign five to six years ago and it was extremely effective at establishing what a ruthless person she was. It's interesting to note, however, that Liquid Pain is a very addictive drug (as well as being useful for replacing XP). Any villain with sub-optimal self-control might take a taste and end up with a permanent weakness. I don't really see that happening with someone like Tarquin. Mind you, I didn't see it happening during my old campaign either - but an enraged PC poured a vial of it down my villain's throat after they defeated her for the first time, thinking that she deserved to suffer a little of the pain she'd caused and not realising that Liquid Pain is agonising to extract but unspeakably pleasurable to consume. The villain was hooked immediately. She subsequently escaped and they had to fight her again later, but she was never the same hard, cold opponent after she tasted the drug.

As it happens, my villain was similar to Tarquin in some respects: very clever and calculating. She made sure that her enemies would be people who would never stoop to hurting people in the way that she did so effortlessly, so that if she was ever defeated her end would either be swift and just or they'd dither enough over her punishment for her to get away. She never expected (nor did I expect) that she would push one of the PCs over the edge in the particular way that led to her addiction: something which took away a lot of the *style* that had been her signature. It makes me wonder if Tarquin's ultimate defeat might take the most fundamental aspects of his character that he relishes so much away from him, contrary to the charming win-win situation he describes in the current comic.

[Lorinthius]

As an alternative, Tarquin is an Evil character. By performing Evil acts, he is staying in character. He could be receiving bonus XP for good roleplay and using that XP to pay for the creation of the ring.

There's probably 8 logic holes in that line of reasoning, but at the time I am typing this, it seems to make sense to me.

[hamishspence]

As an alternative, Tarquin is an Evil character. By performing Evil acts, he is staying in character. He could be receiving bonus XP for good roleplay and using that XP to pay for the creation of the ring.

There's probably 8 logic holes in that line of reasoning, but at the time I am typing this, it seems to make sense to me.

Maybe it's not the committing, but the doing so with "extreme style" that does it. Belkar's "sob story backstory" at the start of Paladin Blues worked for him.

Tarquin has taken on the role of Evil Overlord- and is roleplaying it to the fullest.

[Zen Monkey]

Maybe the ring has been inherited; passed down from previous editions where magic items were made by wizards going on a quest to obtain rare items and do things named by the dm.

[LtNOWIS]

I like that idea. If Ian's old enough to be a first edition thief, than Tarquin had to have been active during second edition at least. He could've gotten or been complicit in its creation then.

[doodthedud]

It's interesting to note, however, that Liquid Pain is a very addictive drug (as well as being useful for replacing XP). Any villain with sub-optimal self-control might take a taste and end up with a permanent weakness. I don't really see that happening with someone like Tarquin.
Unless all that wine he drinks.....isn't really wine! *GASP!!!*


just kidding.

[snikrept]

Unless all that wine he drinks.....isn't really wine! *GASP!!!*


just kidding.What better drink to wash down pheonix paté and pegasus flank?

[WowWeird]

What better drink to wash down pheonix paté and pegasus flank?

Unicorn turds!

PPP reference. I apologize, but it had to be said.

[Squiggly-Thing]

He could get Liquid Pain from the people he's torturing anyway!:smalleek:


Edit:

Unicorn turds!

Um...Huh?:smallconfused:

[137beth]

What a brilliant idea! Let's torture a full caster then give him back his spellbooks and enough materials to make a magic ring!

I'd guess liquid pain or fluffles.

A simpler possibility would be that the caster/other character already had the ring, and he simply tortured them to get it, not create it.