Girard's Age

[Emperor Flumph]

I'm not a regular to these forums, but as far as I know, this question has never been raised:

How can Girard still be alive?
We see here (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) that Soon was at least in his 70s when Shojo was a child. Shojo was a similar age when he died. So even if Girard is like 20 years younger than Soon (which seems doubtful), how is he alive?
Is he undead? Is he secretly a half-elf? Did someone cast gentle repose on him while he was still alive? (Would that work? Has anyone ever tried?) Or is he actually dead, and Tarquin just hasn't mentioned it yet? Epileptic trees, comence.

[FunnyMattress]

It's my personal opinion that, to use an old stand-by explanation for fantasy settings...

A wizard did it.

No, really! Consider how old some mages in other campaign settings are, even without being elves or undead (Elminster and Halaster blackcloak from the Forgotten Realms spring to mind, for instance). I'd say that's it's pretty feasible for Girard to still be alive.

[Emperor Flumph]

It's my personal opinion that, to use an old stand-by explanation for fantasy settings...

A wizard did it.

No, really! Consider how old some mages in other campaign settings are, even without being elves or undead (Elminster and Halaster blackcloak from the Forgotten Realms spring to mind, for instance). I'd say that's it's pretty feasible for Girard to still be alive.
That's actually a decent explanation.
It implies one of two things: either there is a specific magical means of extending one's life, or reaching a great age is simply a side effect of casting arcane magic.
In either case, remember that Elminster and Halastar are general wizards and Girard (from what we've seen) seems to specialize fairly exclusively in illusion.

[Morquard]

Soon was already very old in Order of the Scribbles days, while Girard was young.
The "Shojo was a child" has been discussed before, it could be that he remembers wrong, or that it was just shortly after the Scribbles were done. D&D has just 4 or 5 age categories, he could be just a year or two older than before but looks like 70 instead of 40.
I think it was mentioned somewhere that it was 66 years ago that Soon's wife got killed by the Snarl.

So, yea Girard might well be approaching 90, but thats by no mean an impossible age.

There's also a Epic Feat that prolongs your lifespan by 50% or so, and it can be taken multiple times. And we know the Scribbles were epic in the end.

Also there's the possibility that his name, Draketooth is more than just a name and hints at a half-dragon heritige, which could also explain a more than normal lifespan.

[SPoD]

How can Girard still be alive?


Can you prove conclusively that he is alive?

Because I can't. The recorded illusion was left decades ago, and no one has spoken to him since. All we have is the assumption on the part of the Order and Hinjo that he is. Someone is likely guarding that Gate, but it's only pure speculation that it's still Girard and not his allies (or enemies).

Of course, the Order has very little to go on other than speculation at this point, since they have literally no clues as to where the Gate may be. Trying to Send to Girard or leave him messages is a better option than simply not even trying.

[Morquard]

Can you prove conclusively that he is alive?
Yeah of course it's quite possible that he's dead.
But remember that the OotS world follows different laws than the real world, namely the rule of drama and such.
It would be really anti-climatic to spend 100 stips searching for a guy just to learn that he's dead. So the chances for that are pretty low really.

Also, read the last strip, while Tarquin is evil, his logic for why he wants to help them makes sense from his point of view. He doesn't want Xykon to rule the world, because that means he'll rule over him too.
And he promised them help and information about Girard. And "Yeah, I know where he is. I had him killed last year" isn't really help.

[Barstro]

Also, read the last strip, while Tarquin...promised them help and information about Girard. And "Yeah, I know where he is. I had him killed last year" isn't really help.

Given all the Empire of Blood strips, Girard is possibly frozen in carbonite petrified.

[SPoD]

Yeah of course it's quite possible that he's dead.
But remember that the OotS world follows different laws than the real world, namely the rule of drama and such.
It would be really anti-climatic to spend 100 stips searching for a guy just to learn that he's dead. So the chances for that are pretty low really.

You ignore the possibility of hilarious intentional anti-climax. Never a wise move with OOTS.

Se also: V's battle with the Death Knight; strip #600.

[Morquard]

Please that deathknight, while being a powerful enemy does hardly compare to the quest to save the world, and the search for Girard thats been lasting for around 100 strips now.

[Conuly]

Well, now, I'm gonna go with... magic! Because he can do that. I mean, Dorukan was alive and kicking right up until the end of OotPCs, and he's not any younger than Girard.

[monomer]

I'm going to go with Epic feats.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#extendedLifeSpan

This is basically a rules based version of FunnyMattress's explanation.

[Zevox]

I'm not a regular to these forums, but as far as I know, this question has never been raised:

How can Girard still be alive?
Quite easily. We learned back when the Order of the Scribble was first introduced (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) that their adventures began 66 years ago. Girard himself does not appear to have been particularly old then - he may well have only been in his 20s. It is well within the realm of possibility that he would not yet have died of old age even without anything extending his lifespan beyond normal human limits, even were he around 40 at that time (humans can live up to 110 years by the rules).

And extension of his lifespan is well within the realm of possibility. He is an epic spellcaster - they have a tendency to do that.

Note also that the other human member of the Order of the Scribble, Dorukon, was still alive a mere 6 months before the beginning of the comic (as seen in Start of Darkness). Quite old, but alive and well.


So even if Girard is like 20 years younger than Soon (which seems doubtful)
Actually, that is quite likely. One probable explanation for why Soon died when he did is that he was by far the oldest of the Scribblers, possibly into his 50s even.

(Perhaps a more probable one is that he had to sacrifice himself in order to enact whatever magic caused the ghost-martyrs to exist, but the two are not mutually exclusive either, particularly since Soon was already "aged (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)" when Shojo was young, and Shojo was 72 according to War and XPs.)


You ignore the possibility of hilarious intentional anti-climax. Never a wise move with OOTS.
:smallconfused: Er, I think you might be confusing Order of the Stick with 8-Bit Theater there.

Zevox

[fimzo]

Note also that the other human member of the Order of the Scribble, Dorukon, was still alive a mere 6 months before the beginning of the comic (as seen in Start of Darkness). Quite old, but alive and well.

Soon was human, too.

I think he probably has a magically extended lifespan. Possibly dead or dragon-related, but unlikely (although dragon roots would be interesting).

[Zevox]

Soon was human, too.
And I talked about his case later in my post.

Zevox

[fimzo]

And I talked about his case later in my post.

Zevox

I thought you meant the only other human when you referred to Dorukan. Regardless of such specifics, your point that he could be alive without magical aid makes sense, although he might use magic to increase his lifespan regardless of whether he's reached the highest natural age.

[DerficusRex]

Also there's the possibility that his name, Draketooth is more than just a name and hints at a half-dragon heritige, which could also explain a more than normal lifespan.
Interesting point. Taking that and running way out on a limb with it...
... he also had red hair and a ponytail. Still, there's rather a lot of "all in the family" going on already, and as has been pointed out before: sometimes a hairstyle is just a hairstyle.

[Dr.Epic]

Girard's age is... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik)

[Felixc-91]

there are quite a few ways that i know of to pull off extended life span, being half dragon, life extension epic feat, and he could have used the reincarnate spell. its similar to the raise dead series of spells but it gives the target a new body, one that is young albeit of random species, but still, first adult age category.

[Tass]

Note also that the other human member of the Order of the Scribble, Dorukon, was still alive a mere 6 months before the beginning of the comic (as seen in Start of Darkness). Quite old, but alive and well.

Very old. And he was described as "the new kid", Girard looks like he was quite a bit older.

[Ron Miel]

Actually, there seems to be an inconsistency in Soon's age. When first seen, about 66 years ago he looks maybe about 45. When last seen (alive) he looks ancient, and that must have been about 63 years ago. This is based on the fact that Shojo was a child at the time, he grew to adulthood, then reigned for 47 years. So Soon aged rapidly in a short time. This is either a mistake by The Giant, or else a Checkov's Gun for some future plot development.

[Morquard]

Actually, there seems to be an inconsistency in Soon's age. When first seen, about 66 years ago he looks maybe about 45. When last seen (alive) he looks ancient, and that must have been about 63 years ago. This is based on the fact that Shojo was a child at the time, he grew to adulthood, then reigned for 47 years. So Soon aged rapidly in a short time. This is either a mistake by The Giant, or else a Checkov's Gun for some future plot development.
Doesn't really have to be an inconcistency. I think it's a play on the age-categories of D&D.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age
Between 35-52 humans are considered "Middle age", 53-69 is "Old" and after 70 is "Venerable".
Most people don't care about the age of their character as long as it falls in the right age category.

I think OotS handles it the same. People look the same when they're 52 as they do with 35, but then they turn 53 and practically overnight they look older. Partial or completely gray hair, wrinkles, etc.
So it's quite possible that Soon was 51 during the quest and 54 or so when he died.
Or maybe he was even "Old" already when he was questing, turning "Venerable" just a few years later, the crayon drawings don't really transport that much details so its hard to say.

I would say he looked "Middle Age" as a ghost in the throneroom, but Roy's mom looks 20 as well, as she and Roy's Archon say after you're dead for a while, you don't necessarily look like when you did when you died.

[snikrept]

Off the top of my head...
1. He's used his epic magic to extend his life.
2. He's already dead and his illusions / simulacrums are running the show for him.
2. He's actually a half-something that gives him longer lifespan than a human like Soon.

[Heksefatter]

This is very weakly-founded speculation, but I think that Girard still looks like he was younger and the illusions recorded.

The reason is that this is how Tarquin refers to Girard. Now it could easily be that Tarquin also just knows the illusions and nothing more, but then again: Tarquin is everything that Girard hates - a tin tyrant with an oppressive, bureaucratic, slave-driving regime.

It is thus very possible - and dramatically appropriate - that Girard might be actively opposing Tarquin in some way. Their very natures are diametrically opposed. And if that is true, Tarquin can be expected to know Girard very well indeed and not just through illusions.

As for what specific reason that there might be that Girard is not aged, I do not really have one. If I am right in this, I think that Girard might be using something entirely else than simple life-extending spells or epic feats. After all, Durokan was likely more powerful than Girard as a spellcaster (since Girard is dual class). One explanation could be some power related to the gates or snarl themselves. After all, aren't we due for another reveal there?

[Ron Miel]

Doesn't really have to be an inconcistency. I think it's a play on the age-categories of D&D.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age
Between 35-52 humans are considered "Middle age", 53-69 is "Old" and after 70 is "Venerable".

Possibly, but he looks middle aged in the first strip, and venerable in the last.

[Swordpriest]

I think the timeline is a bit messed up, and it's best not to think about it too closely -- because I don't think it really works if you do the math. :smallfrown:

[Zevox]

Very old. And he was described as "the new kid", Girard looks like he was quite a bit older.
Please stop pretending we can easily tell ages with any particular accuracy based just on the art in this comic. Without gray hair or wrinkles, which would only be used on particularly old characters, there really aren't any signs of age here for adults. It is impossible to tell if Girard was older than Dorukon or not simply from how they look, and Serini labeling Dorukon the "new kid" could quite easily simply mean he was the last one to join their party, and have nothing to do with his age.


Actually, there seems to be an inconsistency in Soon's age. When first seen, about 66 years ago he looks maybe about 45. When last seen (alive) he looks ancient, and that must have been about 63 years ago. This is based on the fact that Shojo was a child at the time, he grew to adulthood, then reigned for 47 years. So Soon aged rapidly in a short time. This is either a mistake by The Giant, or else a Checkov's Gun for some future plot development.
Same as I said above - please do not pretend that we can tell age with any specificity based on the art here. Soon when first seen simply looks like an adult, and could be any age from his 20s to 50s or so. The fact that we next see him likely less than ten years later and he looks old then simply tells us he was likely at the high end of those ages.

Zevox

[Gnome Alone]

It seems likely to me that Girard is just really old - as mentioned, you can get to be 90-something without using any magic at all. As for how Tarquin knows he has red hair, I would think that either Tarquin's just seen the recording from when he was younger, or that Girard is using some of those famous illusions to keep himself appearing young.

The thing with Shojo as a kid when Soon was an old man, however, that never made sense - it's like a 20 year discrepancy or so?

[Swordpriest]

The thing with Shojo as a kid when Soon was an old man, however, that never made sense - it's like a 20 year discrepancy or so?

Yep, that's what I was talking about. Girard could still be alive for almost any reason. However, there isn't enough room in 60 years for Soon to age and have all the rest happen.

Let's work it out. Shojo is said, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, to be 72 in War and XPs. If he ruled for 47 years, that means that he was 25 when he took over, and 9 when Soon handed the command over the Sapphire Guard to him. I guess that tiny child next to the throne could be 9 -- so I guess everything works out for Shojo.

As for Soon, he had a couple of years to age about 30 years, found an order of paladins, remove all mention of the Gates from libraries and go on his crusades.... yes, you're right, there's a 20 or 30 year discrepancy. Possibly as much as 40 years. Heck, if we say that Soon was 50 when he was shown forming the Sapphire Guard, and he lived to the human maximum of 110, there could be a 60 year difference. I'd say he lived closer to the usual "three score and ten", but there's the fact that he COULD have led the Sapphire Guard for 60 years, by the rules.

I also personally don't think that it's some kind of weird, hidden commentary on D&D age categories. As Rich himself said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". I think it's just a slip-up. Timelines are dang hard to get right when you're writing something.

[Zevox]

If he ruled for 47 years, that means that he was 25 when he took over, and 9 when Soon handed the command over the Sapphire Guard to him.
Hold up - where do we learn exactly when Soon handed over command of the Sapphire Guard to Shojo's father? It's certainly not stated in the Crayons of Time comic where we see it occur.


As for Soon, he had a couple of years to age about 30 years, found an order of paladins, remove all mention of the Gates from libraries and go on his crusades.... yes, you're right, there's a 20 or 30 year discrepancy. Possibly as much as 40 years. Heck, if we say that Soon was 50 when he was shown forming the Sapphire Guard, and he lived to the human maximum of 110, there could be a 60 year difference. I'd say he lived closer to the usual "three score and ten", but there's the fact that he COULD have led the Sapphire Guard for 60 years, by the rules.
You're making a crucial error in assuming that Soon died of old age (and more than that, old age by the D&D rules). As I mentioned before, one likely explanation for Soon dying when he appears to have is that he had to sacrifice himself to enact the magic that caused the Ghost-Martyrs to exist. And there are probably other explanations, including the Giant just deciding that he died of old age much earlier than the rules say he would.

Zevox

[Swordpriest]

Hold up - where do we learn exactly when Soon handed over command of the Sapphire Guard to Shojo's father? It's certainly not stated in the Crayons of Time comic where we see it occur.

Um ... are we reading the same comic? :smallconfused:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html

"When I was but a boy, learning at my father's knee, an aged Soon came to him and transferred command of the Sapphire Guard." Lower page, second panel.

If that isn't a statement that he transferred command of the Sapphire Guard to Shojo's father, what on earth is it? And it has to be within the past 72 years, because Shojo is 72 years old, and he's not an infant, so it has to be sooner than 72 years, but he's nowhere near an adult, so it has be before he's 15 or 16 -- teenagers are shown a bit bigger than kids, too. That tiny kid in the picture is not even a 12 year old. So we can pin it down pretty exactly on the basis of Shojo alone. I'd say he's about 6 there, myself, but that would put it back 64 years, which is impossible.



You're making a crucial error in assuming that Soon died of old age (and more than that, old age by the D&D rules). As I mentioned before, one likely explanation for Soon dying when he appears to have is that he had to sacrifice himself to enact the magic that caused the Ghost-Martyrs to exist. And there are probably other explanations, including the Giant just deciding that he died of old age much earlier than the rules say he would.

Zevox

It doesn't really matter if he died of old age, though. That gives us an outside figure, but even if he sacrificed himself, he's still old there. Looks like 60s at best, 70s more likely. After all, he looks a lot older, and "aged", as he is described, is dictionary defined thus:


having lived or existed long; of advanced age; old: an aged man; an aged tree.

And Shojo is 72 years old when he's saying this. There's no way he'd call a man in his 50s "aged" -- more like "middle-aged", in that case.

There's at least 20 years missing here, and probably 30, logically. It's just a minor, if somewhat disconcerting, error -- the Scribble should have been put back 86 years or 96 years, not 66 years.

[Shale]

It's not like he can look at a picture of Soon as he was on that day and say "yeah, even speaking as a 74-year-old man, he still looks like a geezer." All Shojo had to go on were his memories of what Soon looked like to a small child. Plus, I don't remember any D&D rule that says every single person in the world ages gracefully and never looks older than their years.

[Ron Miel]

Hold up - where do we learn exactly when Soon handed over command of the Sapphire Guard to Shojo's father?


Um ... are we reading the same comic? :smallconfused:

...
If that isn't a statement that he transferred command of the Sapphire Guard to Shojo's father, what on earth is it?

I think you are missing the words "exactly when" in the question. The fact that he handed over command is not in dispute. The exact date that it happened is a matter of conjecture.

[KillItWithFire]

The biggest issue here seems to be the gray-haired Soon in strip #277. Keep in mind that Shojo would have been very young when he saw Soon and would probably describe anyone with white hair as "aged." Also with all the stress of the gate and running the SG I wouldn't be surprised if Soon grayed early. He also may be transferring command of the guard because as someone was mentioning earlier he was going to sacrifice himself to enact the ghost-martyr magics. Soon could easily have been late 20's early 30's during his adventuring years, wearing a stern and disiplined look all the while and transfered command in his late 30's early 40's assuming Shojo is 10 and Soon is 40 in 277, with Girad being maybe 5 years younger than Soon I get Girard at 85-95 right now, still lookin good thanks to his illusions.

[Swordpriest]

I think you are missing the words "exactly when" in the question. The fact that he handed over command is not in dispute. The exact date that it happened is a matter of conjecture.

Then I suggest you go back and read the rest of the paragraph. Sure, if you cut that out and ignore most of what I said, then it looks like I missed the words "exactly when".

But the age of Shojo now*, and the fact that he's a preteen, post-infant child in that picture, narrows it down to a window of probably 3 to 4 years.

That's fairly exact to me when we have a definite reference point in Shojo's current age.

Let me explain it again. If Shojo's 72 now*, and we know that Soon handed the command over his father when Shojo was between 5 and 9 (which is what I'd say that tiny but fairly aware individual would represent), then we know that the transfer occurred between 67 and 63 years ago.

Since the Order of the Scribble was formed 66 years ago, this means that the handover of the command could have occurred, at maximum, 3 years after the Order formed, because otherwise, Shojo would be too old to be that small, unless he's half-dwarf or something.

So, the 66 year chronology basically can't work, unless Shojo was only 2 feet tall when he was 24 or so, and he's actually an adult in that picture. (Note that in order to reign for 47 years, that means his father died or abdicated when Shojo was 25, so 24 is the maximum age for that tiny Shojo next to the throne :smallbiggrin:.)

I stick to my point. There is sufficient in-comic evidence to prove that the 66 year period simply doesn't work. No "conjecture" about it. Not that I think it matters too much, since I can just ignore it when I read the story, but it does make an interesting intellectual exercise.

(*To hopefully prevent semantic nitpicking: I am using "now" to mean "the point when Shojo was in the comic interacting with the Oots" because "now" is brief and the other adds unnecessary, confusing verbiage, and is a pain to write over and over and over again just to avoid the semantic nitpickers. I know that a literal "now" in terms of the comic means close to a year after Shojo's death, so please don't post just to tell me that -- I know it.)

[Ron Miel]

Then I suggest you go back and read the rest of the paragraph. Sure, if you cut that out and ignore most of what I said, then it looks like I missed the words "exactly when".

But the age of Shojo now*, and the fact that he's a preteen, post-infant child in that picture, narrows it down to a window of probably 3 to 4 years.

A window of 3 to 4 years isn't an exact date.

Zevox objected to your statement that Shojo was "9 when Soon handed the command over the Sapphire Guard to him."

To be accurate, you should have said "somewhere between 8 and 12"



Let me explain it again. If Shojo's 72 now* ...

I'm not disputing this, and if you note I already commented about Soon's rapid ageing in a few years. I've already stated that this is either a continuity error, or else a plot point that will prove to be significant later.

[Swordpriest]

A window of 3 to 4 years isn't an exact date

To be accurate, you should have said "somewhere between 8 and 12"


Well, I've heard it said repeatedly that the Scribble stuff ended 3 years after it started. Not sure where that came from, but I assumed it was in War and XPs or something, since I have no book. That would make Shojo EXACTLY 9 in that picture (72 - 63 = 9). I think he looks too small for a 9 year old, which is part of the discontinuity, since if he's 5, say, then Soon would have handed over command of the Sapphire Guard a year before his wife was killed and the Scribble was formed. :smallwink:

But, it's moot -- we're in agreement that there's something seriously wrong with the dates there: either an error, or some kind of time-warp plot point that will eventually be revealed.

[Zevox]

Um ... are we reading the same comic? :smallconfused:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html

"When I was but a boy, learning at my father's knee, an aged Soon came to him and transferred command of the Sapphire Guard." Lower page, second panel.

If that isn't a statement that he transferred command of the Sapphire Guard to Shojo's father, what on earth is it? And it has to be within the past 72 years, because Shojo is 72 years old, and he's not an infant, so it has to be sooner than 72 years, but he's nowhere near an adult, so it has be before he's 15 or 16 -- teenagers are shown a bit bigger than kids, too. That tiny kid in the picture is not even a 12 year old. So we can pin it down pretty exactly on the basis of Shojo alone. I'd say he's about 6 there, myself, but that would put it back 64 years, which is impossible.
The problem is that you're making massive assumptions about his specific age when there is scant little that can be gleaned from Shojo's appearance in that pannel. Yes, he's young, but his exact age is utterly impossible to tell.


It doesn't really matter if he died of old age, though. That gives us an outside figure, but even if he sacrificed himself, he's still old there. Looks like 60s at best, 70s more likely. After all, he looks a lot older, and "aged", as he is described, is dictionary defined thus:

And Shojo is 72 years old when he's saying this. There's no way he'd call a man in his 50s "aged" -- more like "middle-aged", in that case.
Again, conjecture. Yes, Shojo looks old, but that only gives a general range he likely falls in, not a specific age. It's not like we have subtle markers that can help us determine ages precisely in this comic - we can basically just tell if characters are children, adults, or old. And I don't think you're at all right to claim that Shojo would not call someone younger than him old - that's just a plain silly assumption to make given his age.


There's at least 20 years missing here, and probably 30, logically.
And this is where I disagree, that is not at all logical. Soon's age can in fact make perfect sense if he was already in his 50s when the Scribblers had their adventures.


Well, I've heard it said repeatedly that the Scribble stuff ended 3 years after it started.
I'd be very curious to hear where you heard that from (yes I saw you said you don't recall), as I have never heard anything specifying how long their adventures took, and I have all of the books.

Zevox

[Water-Smurf]

Girard and Soon were both epic-level and probably had the means to extend their lives and youth, but it may have been a matter of opinion for Soon not to make use of it.

First of all, beyond his duty to the Guard (which he had fulfilled and passed on to the next generation) and to the gods, he didn't have much to live for. His wife was gone and I don't think he had any other family to speak of, so it was probably very lonely for him to be alive, especially since (it seems) he kept everyone at arm's length and had become estranged from possibly the only friends(?) he had. I'd imagine it felt like a very long and tiring life after they sealed the rifts, which could make him age a little prematurely and have no desire to continue his life past its natural time. (Which would also be supported by his strict Lawful stance.)

Girard, on the other hand, seems to have more zest for life and would see no issues with using magic to keep himself alive and young (especially since he's an illusionist, which gives him the added benefit of being a master at tricking the eye).

Dorukan, who I suspect was actually the youngest one there (except for maybe Serini, adjusting for species), didn't seem to have the same love of youth I felt from Girard, and I doubt he really saw a need in it, since he doesn't use his body for much save for conducting magic and sleeping with Lirian (which he could keep going without making himself younger, I'm guessing). Hell, I bet he even saw age as a good thing, since it'd make him look more distinguished. This actually relates since he was alive until between a few weeks to a month or so before the comic started, and even then, he didn't die naturally.

And that's my opinion on the matter. They know that no one but Soon probably just let themselves die of old age.

[Swordpriest]

Again, conjecture. Yes, Shojo looks old, but that only gives a general range he likely falls in, not a specific age. It's not like we have subtle markers that can help us determine ages precisely in this comic - we can basically just tell if characters are children, adults, or old. And I don't think you're at all right to claim that Shojo would not call someone younger than him old - that's just a plain silly assumption to make given his age.

Zevox

Well, I don't have the books, but I've seen in this very thread people stating that the books' commentary directly states that Shojo's age is 72.

And no, it's absolutely silly to think that a guy who's 72 is going to call someone in their 50s "aged", which in our language is a synonym for "ancient," "decripit", etc. If he calls Soon "aged", he is not calling a 40 or 50 year old guy that. He just isn't. I know you can't accept that the comic is anything less than absolutely perfect, but I'm afraid Rich is only human, and the timeline is messed up. It's no big deal, but there's no point in defending an absolutely untenable position either.

However, since you refuse to consider any evidence, I'm through with this discussion. Think what you want, and I'll do the same.

[Zevox]

Well, I don't have the books, but I've seen in this very thread people stating that the books' commentary directly states that Shojo's age is 72.
Gah, I used the wrong name in that post. I meant that it is Soon whose age you are making an undue assumption about, not Shojo. Shojo's age we know, yes, which was why I made that final remark about it being silly to think that he wouldn't call someone younger than him aged given his own age.


And no, it's absolutely silly to think that a guy who's 72 is going to call someone in their 50s "aged", which in our language is a synonym for "ancient," "decripit", etc.
You might want to check a dictionary there, because it is not. It merely means old. Here, I'll quote dictionary.com:


a·ged
–adjective

1.having lived or existed long; of advanced age; old: an aged man; an aged tree.
2. pertaining to or characteristic of old age: aged wrinkles.
3. of the age of: a man aged 40 years.
4. brought to maturity or mellowness, as wine, cheese, or wood: aged whiskey.
5. Physical Geography . old; approaching the state of peneplain.
Seems the first one is the applicable one here, but in any event not a one of them fits with what you thought the definition was.


I know you can't accept that the comic is anything less than absolutely perfect, but I'm afraid Rich is only human, and the timeline is messed up.
Please don't insult me. I'm arguing your point because I genuinely believe you are simply wrong in your assertions - Soon's age can indeed make perfect sense if he was already in his 50s during the Order of the Scribble's adventures. He then reaches his late 50s or early 60s by the time he hands over power to Shojo's father, his hair graying and his body in general showing its age as we see in that flashback, and he then dies of old age or sacrifices himself for the Ghost-Martyr ritual. There is no logical reason this would not make sense.

Zevox

[KillItWithFire]

I agree with Zevox here. Soon would have looked terrible when he handed power ver as he was no spring chicken to begin with and I seriously doubt that he wouldn't gray over extremly quickly due to both his post and as water smurf said earlier, he didn't exactly have an active social life.

[Shale]

And no, it's absolutely silly to think that a guy who's 72 is going to call someone in their 50s "aged", which in our language is a synonym for "ancient," "decripit", etc. If he calls Soon "aged", he is not calling a 40 or 50 year old guy that. He just isn't..

I've said this before, but he doesn't have a freaking time machine for that narration. If Soon looked old to Pre-Teen Shojo, then he's almost certainly going to keep remembering him as looking old, even as Shojo ages past what Soon was when he died.