Tarquin's Big Mistake...

[TheBST]

...is that he thinks he's the main villain of the strip.

Run it through Elan and Tarquin's drama-logic: Tarquin thinks the Order vs. Xykon over the gates is some trivial quest serving as background to the main conflict: good son vs evil father.

In reality, Tarquin's only a part of the main story, so far at least, for two reasons: character development for Elan and to supply information on Girard. Roy's the main character, Xykon's the main villain. Their actions are the ones driving the story. That's why Tarquin is doomed to either be taken out either before Xykon or in an epilogue of sorts, or to help good overcome the greater evil Xykon represents- his conflict with Elan is small potatoes when the world's at stake.

Imagine the look on his face:

:elan: The truth is, Father, this showdown isn't the legend people will remember...
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: You mean-?
:elan: Yes, father. You are.... a sub-plot.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: Noooooo

[Damaris]

Eh, I guess you're right, but I don't think he'd mind that much. He was cool with being forgotten after three decades of living like a God before he met Elan (who he thinks is the main character, hence the miscalculation) and figured there'd be a big father vs. son showdown; and that still stands a good chance of happening and being remembered, even without being the main plot. He'll get over it (also, I think he's way more inspiring than Xykon or Redcloak :smallbiggrin:).

[suszterpatt]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Elan is the main character in OotS. Sure, Roy's the leader, and the whole thing started with Roy's quest to destroy Xykon, but look at who's getting all the cool storylines and character development: Haley, Therkla, Tarquin, the happy ending prophecised by the Oracle. Hell, it was Elan who destroyed the first gate, which triggered the entire friggin' plot in the first place.

The overall story is indeed about the gates, not Elan's personal vengeance, but it could easily become a subplot.

[SPoD]

If Tarquin's not the main villain, then that just plays into Plan A: survive as long as possible with as good a life as possible. After all, can the Order afford to waste time overthrowing Tarquin when he's willing to help them against the REAL villain, Xykon? Of course they can't. And thus Tarquin will rule undisturbed until such time as he is the main villain remaining.

The story only ends when they stop telling it.

[Orzel]

Tarquin knows he's not the main villain.
He doesn't want to be. Main villain rarely get to enjoy life.

His life goal is to be a minor villain that lives an awesome life long enough that his horrible death is worth it.

[silvadel]

If you know it is coming though -- you could have a clone to be prepared for it.

[Eldan]

Even worse: he is not the biggest villain. He wants to rule his continent while another guy wants to take over the world. We all see where this leads.

Xykon is coming over with an army and will take him out.

[zimmerwald1915]

Xykon is coming over with an army and will take him out.
No he isn't. The army is being left behind in Azure City. Xykon considers the army "dead weight" at this point.

[BRC]

Well, it depends on how you define the story.

The current Story is "Order of the Stick vs Team Evil", in that story Xykon is the main villain, Tarquin is merely a side ancedote. THAT is a story about a plucky group of adventurers trying to save the world from an evil sorcerer Lich.

However, there is another story, the story of a young Bard trying to overthrow the evil empire created by his villainous father.

[hamishspence]

Yup- there can be multiple stories running at the same time- and woe betide you if you misidentify what your role is:


A character who tries casting himself as the Brave Peasant Lad Who Outwits The Troll may find that he is actually one of the Twenty Poor Peasants Eaten Before The Knight Comes Along. Or even the Devious Little Human Squashed By The Troll Hero. (Troll fairy-stories are not very subtle.)

— GURPS Discworld, on the dangers of playing with the Theory Of Narrative Casualty Causality

Even Elan has managed to be Wrong Genre Savvy on occasion:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0590.html

[JaxGaret]

Elan, if a hero of your caliber is involved in a quest of such significance that you can't spare more than three days for your old man, then logic dictates that it probably involves trouncing some cliched scenery-chewing villain bent on world conquest. As the current ruler of one-third of the continent, I have a vested interest in you doing exactly that.

This directly refutes your central point:


Tarquin thinks the Order vs. Xykon over the gates is some trivial quest serving as background to the main conflict: good son vs evil father.

Tarquin stated himself that he does not think that defeating Xykon is "some trivial quest". Please spend a little more effort of examination the next time you come up with a theory before posting it.

[shadowkiller]

No he isn't. The army is being left behind in Azure City. Xykon considers the army "dead weight" at this point.

Unless he changes his mind, or just wants to spite Redcloak, and makes a ship out of goblin corpses (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html).

[leakingpen]

...is that he thinks he's the main villain of the strip.

Run it through Elan and Tarquin's drama-logic: Tarquin thinks the Order vs. Xykon over the gates is some trivial quest serving as background to the main conflict: good son vs evil father.

In reality, Tarquin's only a part of the main story, so far at least, for two reasons: character development for Elan and to supply information on Girard. Roy's the main character, Xykon's the main villain. Their actions are the ones driving the story. That's why Tarquin is doomed to either be taken out either before Xykon or in an epilogue of sorts, or to help good overcome the greater evil Xykon represents- his conflict with Elan is small potatoes when the world's at stake.

Imagine the look on his face:

:elan: The truth is, Father, this showdown isn't the legend people will remember...
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: You mean-?
:elan: Yes, father. You are.... a sub-plot.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: Noooooo

Well now... a lot of epics were sequels or spinoffs. Once Elan has finished the xykon quest, then he comes back ten years later. We have the Order of the Puppet, a spinoff to Order of the Stick, in which Elan IS the party leader, and Main Villain. Elan and Haley are married, and Haley is also in it to avenge her father, whom she will see die at the games. Only to find out at the end that he is still alive, and now Tarquin's friend and associate.

[LuPuWei]

In fact, by the premise of this thread, Xykon taking Tarquin out is exactly what should happen, if Elan does not help him realise his true role in the strip. He is not the main villain, and is playing the role of the proud subplot. And pride always leads to a fall.

There is only one way Tarquin can lose. Being taken out by a villain bigger than he is. The last thing he will remember is "Ouch! My ego!"

[Da'Shain]

In fact, by the premise of this thread, Xykon taking Tarquin out is exactly what should happen, if Elan does not help him realise his true role in the strip. He is not the main villain, and is playing the role of the proud subplot. And pride always leads to a fall.

There is only one way Tarquin can lose. Being taken out by a villain bigger than he is. The last thing he will remember is "Ouch! My ego!"I'm inclined to agree that this is the only way Tarquin's current plan will be foiled. The subplot is going along all fine and dandy until the *INAPPROPRIATE ENCOUNTER LEVEL* alarm blares and Xykon descends from the sky to render it completely irrelevant by destroying the capital to get at Girard's mazes underneath it.

Of course, he still had decades of rule in the shadows and living like a king, so it's still a net win for him -- just not as big a one as he currently wants.

[CoffeeIncluded]

No. The only way Tarquin will lose is for him to die in obscurity.

Or...If his main goal is to have people become villains like him, then for him to be so hated that nobody will become him.

[hamishspence]

And for him to not die, but for the remainder of his life to be long enough and unpleasant enough, that it outweighs 20 years of luxury.

After all- it needs to go from a "win-win" to a "lose-lose" for him to have lost fully.

[TheBST]

Tarquin stated himself that he does not think that defeating Xykon is "some trivial quest". Please spend a little more effort of examination the next time you come up with a theory before posting it.

Tarquin still dimisses Elan's target as 'some cliched scenery-chewing villain', but considers that his and Elan's tale will be told 'until the end of history'. And in that regard, his dreams may be doomed because it's a sub-plot to a larger story with higher stakes . Him and Elan are so deep in metafictional banter I wouldn't be surprised to see Elan call him on that.

[MrRigger]

Well, Xykon does need a new fly dragon mount, and the Empress has shown that she can indeed fly, despite how physics breaking it may be. Xykon may pass over the Empire of Blood while on his way to Girard's Gate, and decide that Red Dragon down there looks like it would be a decent enough mount. Tarquin may just be another person struck down by Xykon. Tarquin just happens to be evil.

MrRigger

[pkitty]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Elan is the main character in OotS.
Agreed.

Roy is the big star -- the badass leader who combines muscle and brains. But he's been awesome since the beginning. Sure, Roy has had some character growth, but it's all been about overcoming what are (honestly) fairly minor personal flaws.

Elan, on the other hand, is the plucky sidekick who starts off as a useless fool, but gradually becomes more and more competent. His training, awareness, and personality have developed immensely since the beginning of OOTS.

Now, consider that for every movie where the sidekick is just comic relief, there's one where the sidekick's story is the real story. The overall plot is that the sidekick has to step up to do what his tougher, stronger buddy couldn't accomplish. The "hero" dies, or is captured, or somehow fails, and it's the "sidekick" who steps up to become the true protagonist of the story.

I'm not saying that's how OOTS necessarily is, or how it has to be -- but it's certainly a valid way to look at things. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Elan ends up begin the one to save the day when it's all said and done, and that's how he earns his happy ending.

[Lvl45DM!]

So Roy is Jackie Chan, with some minor personal issues
Haley is Jet Li with a mysterious past that keeps coming back to haunt her
Elan is that annoying little white kid? from Forbidden Kingdom. Being the 'main character' aint always the best

[JaxGaret]

Tarquin still dimisses Elan's target as 'some cliched scenery-chewing villain'

Xykon is a cliched scenery-chewing villain, and a badass one at that. That's not dismissal, that's calling a spade a spade.


, but considers that his and Elan's tale will be told 'until the end of history'.

And Tarquin directly states that he understands that Elan and company's would-be completion of their quest to defeat Xykon is to Tarquin's advantage, due to the subsequent ending of Tarquin's plans to tell the greatest story ever with his son - if Xykon is not defeated.

[Jimorian]

Tarquin still dimisses Elan's target as 'some cliched scenery-chewing villain', but considers that his and Elan's tale will be told 'until the end of history'. And in that regard, his dreams may be doomed because it's a sub-plot to a larger story with higher stakes . Him and Elan are so deep in metafictional banter I wouldn't be surprised to see Elan call him on that.

Except that I don't think anybody is ever going to hear about the larger story with higher stakes. Coming back afterwards to defeat Tarquin may be the only way The Order ever gains fame.

(Current arc speculations that don't match the above statement at all)
There are still a LOT of wild cards that Tarquin isn't aware of. That Roy is in the gladiator arena and needs to find a way to survive/escape. And then there's Haley's father. The Order may very well depose Tarquin on accident while trying to solve their own more immediate problems.

I must say that Rich continually amazes me by topping himself with each unfolding of the plot. :smallsmile:

[Thanatosia]

I'm going to have to agree with Garet Jax here, Tarquin is fully aware that he is not the main villain of the story Elan is involved in right now, he's setting up for the sequel.

There are many cases where main characters in a story were introduced as relatively minor characters in previous stories. Sauron was a relatively minor side-character in the Silmarillion, and was never anywhere near the same power league as Morgoth, but who is the better known villain?

You don't have to be the bigger threat to end up the bigger legend.

[Dr.Epic]

...is that he thinks he's the main villain of the strip.

Yeah, I realized that too. But I don't think Tarquin cares even if he does know this. He stated his case clearly: he wants to rule for a few decades which he has. He knows someone will come along and kill him and he's made peace with that. So what if he's not the big bad of the story we all care about. He's done what he's wanted and is willing accept his fate.

[Swordpriest]

I don't know. "Finish up your little plot" doesn't sound like he views the Tarquin vs. Elan plot to be the secondary one to me.

[Lord Raziere]

one can only wonder what hannibal lecture Xykon will give Tarquin if they ever meet.

:xykon: heheheheh, look Silver Vader, I think your a little confused here. I'm the big villain. You are just a side-plot villain who thinks he is the Big Bad. You are what? One of those sly, lawful type of guys who has been manipulating and ruling the entire continent, all the while pretending to be a nice general and being all "affable?" heh. here is a lesson for you: you have no true power.
*Xykon kills the Empress of Blood*
True Power isn't being some guy behind the scenes, making everything go his way through proxies and things like figure heads, True Power is what YOU seize for YOURSELF, what you share with NO ONE, I just killed your source of power, and if I can do that, you didn't truly have any to begin with.
oh and I don't deny what I am like you. I don't deny my alignment, if you were just another manipulator embracing his lawful evilness, I'd be more friendly, probably refer you to my good friend Redcloak, have you lawfuls work out a good little agreement over a cup of tea or whatever.

but No. You, Tarquin are nothing but a hider, you hide behind your figureheads, your friendly facade, your oppressive empires, and you even hide from yourself by disbelieving things like alignment. I hate that.
Me? I admit what I am. I'm chaotic evil, I'm a lich, I'm a goddamn super-powerful sorcerer who wants the world under my bony foot, and that is what I'm going to do. You are just a man, who does nothing but hide. I least I admit who I am, you? Your PATHETIC! BYE BYE!

*kills Tarquin*

[Callista]

one can only wonder what hannibal lecture Xykon will give Tarquin if they ever meet.

:xykon: heheheheh, look Silver Vader, I think your a little confused here. I'm the big villain. You are just a side-plot villain who thinks he is the Big Bad. You are what? One of those sly, lawful type of guys who has been manipulating and ruling the entire continent, all the while pretending to be a nice general and being all "affable?" heh. here is a lesson for you: you have no true power.
*Xykon kills the Empress of Blood*
True Power isn't being some guy behind the scenes, making everything go his way through proxies and things like figure heads, True Power is what YOU seize for YOURSELF, what you share with NO ONE, I just killed your source of power, and if I can do that, you didn't truly have any to begin with.
oh and I don't deny what I am like you. I don't deny my alignment, if you were just another manipulator embracing his lawful evilness, I'd be more friendly, probably refer you to my good friend Redcloak, have you lawfuls work out a good little agreement over a cup of tea or whatever.

but No. You, Tarquin are nothing but a hider, you hide behind your figureheads, your friendly facade, your oppressive empires, and you even hide from yourself by disbelieving things like alignment. I hate that.
Me? I admit what I am. I'm chaotic evil, I'm a lich, I'm a goddamn super-powerful sorcerer who wants the world under my bony foot, and that is what I'm going to do. You are just a man, who does nothing but hide. I least I admit who I am, you? Your PATHETIC! BYE BYE!

*kills Tarquin*That is... fairly epic.

[slayerx]

It's like Tarquin says, stories have no ending, just a point where storytellers stop talking. When it comes down to it, in the world of OotS the fight against Xykon does not need to be ELan's end, he can go on adventuring. Tarquin's not the main villian because their story hasn't even really begun yet. They're first meeting now is only the prologue; the true story won't start for another 10 years after Elan has level'd up and Tarquin has completed his conquest. That is when Elan will return to the western continent and begin a great story that shall be told for generations...

It's just a story that we ourselves may never get to hear

[snikrept]

Tarquin is a pretty rare beast as empire-ruling power-hungry villains go. He's willing to share power with his mates. He's willing to let some figurehead get credit for ruling the actual kingdom. He's willing to take a backseat to whatever quest Elan has.

He says he wants to be a legend but if all goes well and he unites the continent, no bards will ever hear of his deeds - just those of people like the Dragon Empress. There will never be a place in the history books where there's a big colored blotch on the map that says TARQUIN RULED THIS PLACE. He'll just live to old age and enjoy the comforts of being second in command to the emperor all the time.

[krossbow]

one can only wonder what hannibal lecture Xykon will give Tarquin if they ever meet.

:xykon: heheheheh, look Silver Vader, I think your a little confused here. I'm the big villain. You are just a side-plot villain who thinks he is the Big Bad. You are what? One of those sly, lawful type of guys who has been manipulating and ruling the entire continent, all the while pretending to be a nice general and being all "affable?" heh. here is a lesson for you: you have no true power.
*Xykon kills the Empress of Blood*
True Power isn't being some guy behind the scenes, making everything go his way through proxies and things like figure heads, True Power is what YOU seize for YOURSELF, what you share with NO ONE, I just killed your source of power, and if I can do that, you didn't truly have any to begin with.
oh and I don't deny what I am like you. I don't deny my alignment, if you were just another manipulator embracing his lawful evilness, I'd be more friendly, probably refer you to my good friend Redcloak, have you lawfuls work out a good little agreement over a cup of tea or whatever.

but No. You, Tarquin are nothing but a hider, you hide behind your figureheads, your friendly facade, your oppressive empires, and you even hide from yourself by disbelieving things like alignment. I hate that.
Me? I admit what I am. I'm chaotic evil, I'm a lich, I'm a goddamn super-powerful sorcerer who wants the world under my bony foot, and that is what I'm going to do. You are just a man, who does nothing but hide. I least I admit who I am, you? Your PATHETIC! BYE BYE!

*kills Tarquin*



Personally, i think that Tarquin is more than aware of the dangers high level spell casters pose, and would have escape contingencies planned; he WAS the leader of a high level party of adventurers, and, from the implications so far, a good one with their trust. You generally don't succeed at that position without knowing how to deal with magical foes.

Not to mention, Xykon, while powerful, isn't unstoppable without his army to back him up; He only has so many spells and can be hurt (as shown by the ghost martyrs in Sapphire city). Attempting to full on assault the general of a military empire would usually mean having to fend of an entire army as well as taking on tarquin.

Sure Xykon is leagues above other people, but to think he could rambo his way through to a magnificient bastard like tarquin without trouble is a bit much; and should tarquin escape, he can look forward to another high level group of adventurers looking him up for revenge once tarquin got his posse back together for ruining their kingdom gambit.

[Ron Miel]

"If I lose I get to be a legend"

No. It won't work. He plans for conquest depend upon him manipulating things behind the scenes in secrecy. If he loses, nobody will know about him.

[MartytheBioGuy]

Maybe when his plans reach a boil (that is, when he rules literally everything) he'll finally become public? It's a thought.

[Nimrod's Son]

"If I lose I get to be a legend"

No. It won't work. He plans for conquest depend upon him manipulating things behind the scenes in secrecy. If he loses, nobody will know about him.
...Apart from Elan, who is the "hero" in this story he's talking about. Maybe Tarquin expects his tyranny to be revealed AFTER Elan vanquishes him.

[Cizak]

Think you're misunderstanding here. What Tarqiun says is, of course Elan, the Hero, will reveal his evil masterplan to the world and THEN defeat him. Then, when the story is told, everyone will remember the bad-ass villain who fooled everybody.

[Morquard]

So the best way is to shoot sneak a sexy assassin in Tarquins bed and have him murdered in his sleep, then just some angry woman killed the womanizer general. That the 3 huge empires collapse in the next year probably will just be attributed to the volatile nature of the continent.

Of course Elan, being a good hero, would never kill anyone in that manner.

No, I think he's right, Elan according to the rules of Drama would have to expose him, either before or after defeating him.

[KyrtFurey]

...is that he thinks he's the main villain of the strip.

Doubtful.

He knows he's the villain which means he's not the "star"...and he's been operating in secret.

As for the main villain...he doesn't appear to be thinking of the story we are reading.

He's thinking of the story in which he rules an Empire is secret, only for his son to become a hero and defeat him. He will be the main villain of THAT story.

EJL

[KyrtFurey]

No. The only way Tarquin will lose is for him to die in obscurity.

Or...If his main goal is to have people become villains like him, then for him to be so hated that nobody will become him.

His main goal is to have decades living like a King.

EJL

[faustin]

Elan is not only a hero, but a bard. After defeating his father, he is likely to compose a masterpiece for him (that´s another reason for Tarquin to reforce his afection bonds with his son BEFORE revealing his infamy) like he did for Roy after being killed by Xykon.
The REAL flaw in Tarquin´s plan is to overrate Elan position inside TOoS. Unlike Roy or Haley, Elan hasn´t any leader quality, and more important, HE IS STUPID, so ""Evil tyrant mastermind of the dessert defeated by his retarded son by pure stroke of luck"" it´s doesn´t going to sound very epic.

[martinkou]

He's having a nation near or even including a gate, and he has a lot of nice gear to boot.

Xykon is gonna own him. Lesser villain killed by greater villain, not sexy.

[lord_khaine]

Elan is not only a hero, but a bard. After defeating his father, he is likely to compose a masterpiece for him (that´s another reason for Tarquin to reforce his afection bonds with his son BEFORE revealing his infamy) like he did for Roy after being killed by Xykon.
The REAL flaw in Tarquin´s plan is to overrate Elan position inside TOoS. Unlike Roy or Haley, Elan hasn´t any leader quality, and more important, HE IS STUPID, so ""Evil tyrant mastermind of the dessert defeated by his retarded son by pure stroke of luck"" it´s doesn´t going to sound very epic.

I think you missed who is going to write the epic, there wont be any mentioning of luck or "retarded son".

[KillItWithFire]

Not only that but I can imagine Elan would exxagerate some aspects of the story, it's what bards do. It will become even more exxaggerated with every other bards retelling. Eventually we have the imcredibly handsome lithe and intelligent dashing swordsmen who fending off an entire nations (nay 3 even) royal guard before finally confronting the malicious villian in his own throne room and defeating him in a glorious combat. Doesn't remind me of Elan much at all.

[Tass]

Sure Tarquin could get the end he deserves: Dying in obscurity, just like in The Faun's Labyrinth:

Bad guy: Tell my son how his farther died.
(Anti)Hero: He won't even know your name. *Bang*

But there are two points. One: He did still get to live like a king for thirty years.

Two: People still saw the movie, and Tarquin seems savvy enough to know that his fame does not need to happen in the same universe. Even if few in the OoTSverse will know about him, we still think he is an awesome villain.

[T-O-E]

30 years is like 10 minutes in the abyss. One detail he's overlooked...

[hamishspence]

He hasn't mentioned it yet- we don't know if he's overlooked it.

Given that in D&D splatbooks, a sufficiently brilliant career of evil can inspire devils to give you instant promotion, maybe he knows that and it's part of the plan.

Also, in Demonomicon of Iggwilv, some demon lords were once great mortals in life. Kostichie was one. Baphomet may have been another.

[Gettles]

one can only wonder what hannibal lecture Xykon will give Tarquin if they ever meet.

:xykon: heheheheh, look Silver Vader, I think your a little confused here. I'm the big villain. You are just a side-plot villain who thinks he is the Big Bad. You are what? One of those sly, lawful type of guys who has been manipulating and ruling the entire continent, all the while pretending to be a nice general and being all "affable?" heh. here is a lesson for you: you have no true power.
*Xykon kills the Empress of Blood*
True Power isn't being some guy behind the scenes, making everything go his way through proxies and things like figure heads, True Power is what YOU seize for YOURSELF, what you share with NO ONE, I just killed your source of power, and if I can do that, you didn't truly have any to begin with.
oh and I don't deny what I am like you. I don't deny my alignment, if you were just another manipulator embracing his lawful evilness, I'd be more friendly, probably refer you to my good friend Redcloak, have you lawfuls work out a good little agreement over a cup of tea or whatever.

but No. You, Tarquin are nothing but a hider, you hide behind your figureheads, your friendly facade, your oppressive empires, and you even hide from yourself by disbelieving things like alignment. I hate that.
Me? I admit what I am. I'm chaotic evil, I'm a lich, I'm a goddamn super-powerful sorcerer who wants the world under my bony foot, and that is what I'm going to do. You are just a man, who does nothing but hide. I least I admit who I am, you? Your PATHETIC! BYE BYE!

*kills Tarquin*

That's assuming that Xykon sees Tarquin as something more than the finger of death spell between what he is doing now and when he is doing later.

[Maraxus1]

Actually, I do think, that Tarquin will see the end of the comic. "Win" if you so want. Why? Who shall stop him? Xykon will get stopped by the Order of the Stick. And the heroes? Elan has just lost, both the weapons duel and the bardic knowledge duel.
Roy? I imagine that conversation like this:


:roy:: You may have confused Elan but there are still good guys willing to end your tyranny!
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: Yeah because killing the oppressive dictator of a politically unstable region defined by hate and violence always works so 'good'.
:roy::Wait, what?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: You are a smart guy for a fighter, so you probably have a long-term-stabilization-plan for the region and don't just declare "Mission accomplished" once I'm dead, don't you? For example my spy network is aware of the 8 most powerful nobles plotting to take my place at any opportunity. Each of them willing to kill all the others and roughly 100,000 more sentient beings on top simply for having the wrong gods/race/whatever. Hell, I was the one convincing the empress to lift the death penalty on chaotic good alignments (because the diviner guild got too powerful but that's not the point).
:roy::So you are saying, I'm supposed to let you keep doing your evil thinks or else other people would do more evil?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: Exactly. Once the people of this nation are politically responsible enough and morally enlightened enough to build a working democracy build on Sociality, Peace and Freedom, you can come and beat me in whatever fashion you like but until then your understanding of political structures will prevent you from replacing me by even greater tyrants.


....Maybe Nale might be able to replace his father and be in return be more harmful then any possible local evil guy. Maybe Harley's dad will somehow play into this but the way I see it now, Tarquin might just be a Happy Villian ever after.

[Dire Moose]

I figure Xykon isn't going to go out of his way to eliminate empires like Tarquin's unless there's an immediate need to. His plan is ultimately to gain control over a god-destroying abomination, and once that's done he won't need armies and can simply take over the world in an instant.

But of course that would be too much of a Downer Ending for the comic and thus won't happen if Elan's prophecy has anything to say about it. So if Tarquin falls, it won't be Xykon who topples him.

[FafnerMorell]

In one of the upcoming books, it would be cool to have Tarquin do the recap of past adventures from a "Elan-as-hero"-centric point of view - also pointing out how everything that occurred is part of Tarquin's master plan.

[JonestheSpy]

So Roy is Jackie Chan, with some minor personal issues
Haley is Jet Li with a mysterious past that keeps coming back to haunt her
Elan is that annoying little white kid? from Forbidden Kingdom. Being the 'main character' aint always the best

Brilliant.

[Aldrakan]

He knows he's the villain which means he's not the "star"...and he's been operating in secret.

As for the main villain...he doesn't appear to be thinking of the story we are reading.

He's thinking of the story in which he rules an Empire is secret, only for his son to become a hero and defeat him. He will be the main villain of THAT story.

EJL

Except that's not the story we're reading. I really doubt that the OotS is going to defeat Xykon, stop the Snarl, etc. etc. then say.
"Okay, well better go stop Tarquin." and have a whole new story about them doing that. As I see it when they clear up the Gates problem the Order of the Stick, as a comic, is complete. The only time for Tarquin to be defeated after that is in the epilogue, which after the amount of time that's been spent building up Tarquin as a villain seems anticlimactic. Not to mention that it's exactly what he wants.

Oh and right now, he thinks he has everything under control.

Go through the comic and look at what happens to characters who think that.
Key points of interest: Nale seizing the amulet. Xykon and Roy's first fight. Nale infiltrating OotS and about to kill Haley. Xykon defeating the Sapphire Guard. Daimo's "trial of the century". Vaarsuvius' soul splice.
That's right. Things go horribly wrong.

[Swordpriest]

Not to mention that it's exactly what he wants.

Oh and right now, he thinks he has everything under control.

Go through the comic and look at what happens to characters who think that.
Key points of interest: Nale seizing the amulet. Xykon and Roy's first fight. Nale infiltrating OotS and about to kill Haley. Xykon defeating the Sapphire Guard. Daimo's "trial of the century". Vaarsuvius' soul splice.
That's right. Things go horribly wrong.

Excellent point. He's much too smug, and has everything too pat, for something not to give soon. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: cripes, forgot an "o" in too.

[Callista]

Actually, I do think, that Tarquin will see the end of the comic. "Win" if you so want. Why? Who shall stop him? Xykon will get stopped by the Order of the Stick. And the heroes? Elan has just lost, both the weapons duel and the bardic knowledge duel.
Roy? I imagine that conversation like this:


:roy:: You may have confused Elan but there are still good guys willing to end your tyranny!
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: Yeah because killing the oppressive dictator of a politically unstable region defined by hate and violence always works so 'good'.
:roy::Wait, what?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: You are a smart guy for a fighter, so you probably have a long-term-stabilization-plan for the region and don't just declare "Mission accomplished" once I'm dead, don't you? For example my spy network is aware of the 8 most powerful nobles plotting to take my place at any opportunity. Each of them willing to kill all the others and roughly 100,000 more sentient beings on top simply for having the wrong gods/race/whatever. Hell, I was the one convincing the empress to lift the death penalty on chaotic good alignments (because the diviner guild got too powerful but that's not the point).
:roy::So you are saying, I'm supposed to let you keep doing your evil thinks or else other people would do more evil?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: Exactly. Once the people of this nation are politically responsible enough and morally enlightened enough to build a working democracy build on Sociality, Peace and Freedom, you can come and beat me in whatever fashion you like but until then your understanding of political structures will prevent you from replacing me by even greater tyrants.


....Maybe Nale might be able to replace his father and be in return be more harmful then any possible local evil guy. Maybe Harley's dad will somehow play into this but the way I see it now, Tarquin might just be a Happy Villian ever after.The instability created by Tarquin's downfall would be much alleviated if Elan took over for him. Elan is his son, and natural successor; and while he's not very smart, he's got smart people around him that he's willing to listen to. So that problem could probably be solved.

[Dr.Epic]

"If I lose I get to be a legend"

No. It won't work. He plans for conquest depend upon him manipulating things behind the scenes in secrecy. If he loses, nobody will know about him.

He'll only lose if someone finds out he's manipulating things. If people don't know he's the man behind it all, they won't know to stop him.

[ThePhantasm]

So... many... tarquin.... threads....

Its what everyone is Tarquin about these days *rimshot*

[Swordpriest]

So... many... tarquin.... threads....

Its what everyone is Tarquin about these days *rimshot*

Groan, what a deadly pun! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[slayerx]

So the best way is to shoot sneak a sexy assassin in Tarquins bed and have him murdered in his sleep, then just some angry woman killed the womanizer general. That the 3 huge empires collapse in the next year probably will just be attributed to the volatile nature of the continent.

ya and then Malack resurrects him the following morning...
To kill Tarquin you have to kill malack, his comrades and ALL of the allies that would bring any of them back... and that means a pretty thorough overthrowing of all three empires

ya those resurrections make assassinations quite difficult

[blackjack217]

That's why you take the head with you. that and it makes speak with dead so much easier

[Jukebox Hero]

Maybe he only said all that to confuse Elan into thinking that there was no way for good to become victorious, and keep Elan from making futile, irritating attempts on his life...although this is highly doubtful. But no matter what, Tarquin is undoubtedly the most awesome NPC in the comic.

[Kronno]

"If I lose I get to be a legend"

No. It won't work. He plans for conquest depend upon him manipulating things behind the scenes in secrecy. If he loses, nobody will know about him.

I think you're looking at this wrong. Tarquin is looking at it from the perspective of the story, and tales are told by people looking for the most interesting angle, not by people looking for accuracy. Vader wasn't the emperor, but he is the legendary bad guy because his story is ultimately more interesting. Tarquin knows the bards would rather sing about the dashing warlord who was defeated by his equally dashing son than sing about the red dragon who died of high cholesterol (really really high cholesterol).

[DerficusRex]

That's why you take the head with you. that and it makes speak with dead so much easier

Four word alternative: "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind."

[AgentofOdd]

Four word alternative: "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind."Indeed. I think that strip also tells us that while Elan is a Bard, he isn't enslaved to conventions. Tarquin's blatant desire to inspire other tyrants would probably make Elan forgo all the dramatic nonsense and quietly kill his father. Not to mention having your dying father disown you, and whisper you're a disappointment is also fairly dramatic.

[treyh37]

I think a bigger flaw is that dragons have pretty good hearing and the queen was relatively close by, and may realize shes a pawn from all the things tarquin said.

[Innis Cabal]

I think she's to busy eating and talking to care.

[Trisk]

Maybe he doesn't care about his name being known, only that what he's done, even without the world knowing what really happened, be known and felt for aeons.

Maybe?

[Forum Staff]

Two threads on the same topic have been merged.

[U2QueenBee]

Could there be one other possible way that Tarquin could 'lose'? Maybe his mistake is that Elan isn't his adversary/counterpart, Haley's father is. Enemy parents of lover children is a fairly classic trope as well, and if he got, I don't know, bested in the arena by a random peasanty man somehow, that might take the shine right off his apple, legend-wise.

I'm grasping at straws, I know, but I feel really bad for Elan, poor guy. :(

[hamishspence]

To lose fully, he needs to be convinced somehow that all the 20 years of power, were not worth what price he ends up paying.

[nac]

...is that he thinks he's the main villain of the strip.
Nope, he is now Elan's primary nemesis, not Xykon. He knows very well that some background villain is trying to end the world.... again. That's why he wants to help the gang, to protect his dominion. Generic world-enders pop up every now and then. They're hardly the "main villains" or subjects of the really quality epics.

[martinkou]

To lose fully, he needs to be convinced somehow that all the 20 years of power, were not worth what price he ends up paying.

Getting his soul trapped by Xykon for empowering one of his artifacts should do. Elan tries to save his father's soul but Xykon threw it down the sewage pipes, never to be found again.

[Jagos]

Agreed.

Roy is the big star -- the badass leader who combines muscle and brains. But he's been awesome since the beginning. Sure, Roy has had some character growth, but it's all been about overcoming what are (honestly) fairly minor personal flaws.


Trust me, I love Roy as much as the next guy, but he has really large flaws that are fairly subtle.

He seems to have disdain for minor characters, he takes too many things on personally, and his sarcastic bent has gotten him in trouble with Devas before. To say his flaws are minor is kind of like saying a swarm of bees attacking are a minor nuisance.

Other than that, Elan is becoming more competent which is really great. I couldn't stand the more annoying Bandit era Elan no matter how many jokes he had.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

i think people are overestimating the "xykon is more central and way more powerful" point. the fact of the matter is, tarquin is awesome, and thus, in my opinion, going to be an awesome contribution to the story. it would be a shame to have a character like tarquin wasted on some anticlimactic showdown with xykon

[nac]

i think people are overestimating the "xykon is more central and way more powerful" point.
Yeah, I don't see how this subjective notion of centrality has any bearing on the matter.