incarnum and co?

[umbrapolaris]

last night a friend told me about Magic of Incarnum book, but the way he describe it made me perplex... look likes you used your soul to duplicate magic items powers. im sure the way he describe it to me was a bit simple.

so my question is : what is exactly the goal and purpose of that? why i should spent levels for that instead of just wearing magic items ?

[tyckspoon]

Have you ever wanted to wear 2 sets of magic items at the same time? Have you ever gotten tired of the ones you always use, or had them be ineffective for the situation, and wanted to change out your magic items in the morning just like the Cleric changes his spells? That's what Incarnum users do (well, the good classes. Soulborn is pretty sad.) You can't do that with just magic items, at least in anything short of an infinite wealth situation, and there are a lot of soulmelds that do things you can't purchase as magic items.. at least, not without spending vast sums of GP on them.

[umbrapolaris]

Have you ever wanted to wear 2 sets of magic items at the same time? Have you ever gotten tired of the ones you always use, or had them be ineffective for the situation, and wanted to change out your magic items in the morning just like the Cleric changes his spells? That's what Incarnum users do (well, the good classes. Soulborn is pretty sad.) You can't do that with just magic items, at least in anything short of an infinite wealth situation, and there are a lot of soulmelds that do things you can't purchase as magic items.. at least, not without spending vast sums of GP on them.

ok i see, thanks

[Kelb_Panthera]

Have you ever wanted to wear 2 sets of magic items at the same time? Have you ever gotten tired of the ones you always use, or had them be ineffective for the situation, and wanted to change out your magic items in the morning just like the Cleric changes his spells? That's what Incarnum users do (well, the good classes. Soulborn is pretty sad.) You can't do that with just magic items, at least in anything short of an infinite wealth situation, and there are a lot of soulmelds that do things you can't purchase as magic items.. at least, not without spending vast sums of GP on them.

That's a tad simplified. With meldshapers (classes dedicated to incarnum use) what you get is similar to a suite of magic items built into your character called soulmelds. These soulmelds can be changed at the beginning of each day, and their power is determined by the amount of essentia you put into them. You can change the amount of essentia in your soulmelds at any time with a swift action. Essentia comes from having levels in a meldshaping class, taking incarnum feats, or by being of a particular race.

Each soulmeld takes up one of the magic item slots on the body which are called chakra. A soulmeld can be bound to the chakra it occupies for greater effects. Many soulmelds grant a means of offense or a defensive class feature when they're bound to a chakra, in addition to the bonuses to skills and other checks they normally grant. The size of these bonuses and the potency of these attacks is usually determined by the amount of essentia invested in it. There are special magic items and a feat that allow soulmelds and magic items that allow a character to have both a normal magic item and a soulmeld in the same chakra

There are three meldshaper base classes: the Incarnate, the Totemist, and the Soulborn. The Incarnate is built around the idea of using your soulmelds to generate AoE's or touch attacks, as well as being able to use nearly any skill to a moderate extent. They get the most essentia of the three. The Totemist is based around the idea of using your soulmelds to emulate magical beasts by granting natural attacks, unusual movement modes, and monster traits; as well as granting bonuses on physical skills and combat oriented checks. The Soulborn is a kind of incarnum paladin. He's able to shape the fewest soulmelds of the three and has the least essentia.

I don't think I can give much more detail without violating copyright.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Soulborn is pretty sad.

But not the good kind of SAD.

[Ravens_cry]

I know everyone makes jokes about Incarnum and the colour blue, but I got another. When I first started reading Order of the Stick, it was shortly after I took out Magic of Incarnum out of the Library, and yes, there is metric buttload a lot of blue. So much so I wondered at the time if our favourite paladin order was somehow associated with Incarnum, considering chalkras and the eastern theme of the Paladin order, you can excuse me for wondering. In fact wasn't there a Sapphire Guard in Magic of Incarnum?

[hamishspence]

The Sapphire Eidolon is a gigantic blue stone- with it's own incarnum-using order that serve it.

I don't think it's an exact parallel between that and the Sapphire Guard, though.

[Ravens_cry]

The Sapphire Eidolon is a gigantic blue stone- with it's own incarnum-using order that serve it.

I don't think it's an exact parallel between that and the Sapphire Guard, though.
I knew it.
But yes,as the comic has gone on, I realized they're not exactly connected, but you can forgive me for wondering at first.
After all, both have a metric buttload a lot of blue.

[hamishspence]

Hmm- when did the name "The Sapphire Guard" first spring up- and when did Magic of Incarnum come out?

Might have been interesting if it was a nod to that.

However, big magical Blue Stones do seem to crop up quite a bit even outside of D&D.

The Orb of Aldur, and The Sapphire Rose, both in David Eddings books, are the first to spring to mind.

After a quick check- OOTS 200 (possibly the first strip to use the name Sapphire Guard) was in July 2005, Magic of Incarnum came out November 2005.

[Ravens_cry]

Hmm- when did the name "The Sapphire Guard" first spring up- and when did Magic of Incarnum come out?

Might have been interesting if it was a nod to that.

However, big magical Blue Stones do seem to crop up quite a bit even outside of D&D.

The Orb of Aldur, and The Sapphire Rose, both in David Eddings books, are the first to spring to mind.

After a quick check- OOTS 200 (possibly the first strip to use the name Sapphire Guard) was in July 2005, Magic of Incarnum came out November 2005.
Huh, I guess it's just one of the universes weird coincidences then. I mean, it's not like colour themed orders and groups are uncommon either.

[Person_Man]

so my question is : what is exactly the goal and purpose of that? why i should spent levels for that instead of just wearing magic items ?

Incarnum is actually one of the most confusing rule sets, but it's worthwhile. Basically there are soulmelds, chakra binds, and essentia.

Soulmelds provide a minor Skill boost or ability, such as +4 to Spot or Uncanny Dodge.

Each soulmeld can be bound to one or more body slots, which are renamed chakra slots for fluffy reasons. When you bind a soulmeld to a body/chakra slot, it closes it off so that you can't also use a magic item in that slot. But you gain a useful class ability, some of which can't be cheaply duplicated with magic items, such as lots of natural attacks, Incorporealness, Dimension Door at will, various immunities, various special attacks, etc.

Essentia is spiritual energy which can be pumped into soulmelds as a Swift Action. Doing so improves the base soulmeld ability and the chakra bind ability. In general, you can swap essentia between soulmelds every round if you want to, as if you were rerouting power from shields to weapons to warp engines on the Enterprise.

The up side of these abilities is that they last all day, can generally be used at will every round, and there's actually a fun toybox of different options that are otherwise difficult to efficiently recreate with magic items or non-abusive casters. The down side is that the rules are very very fiddly. The rules aren't clearly written, there are exceptions to every rule, there's duplication of abilities between soulmelds, about a third of the book is garbage (Soulborn, most feats, various soulmelds), and everything counts as magic (and thus subject to Spell Resistance, Antimagic Field, Dispel Magic, etc).

On balance I love Magic of Incarnum. In many ways it's a distilled version of everything that's fun (and horrible) about 3.5 D&D.

[hamishspence]

The down side is that the rules are very very fiddly. The rules aren't clearly written, there are exceptions to every rule,
...
about a third of the book is garbage
...
On balance I love Magic of Incarnum. In many ways it's a distilled version of everything that's fun (and horrible) about 3.5 D&D.

Similar things could be said about a lot of D&D books. Tome of Magic springs to mind. :smallamused:

[Psyren]

Similar things could be said about a lot of D&D books. Tome of Magic springs to mind. :smallamused:

ToM is 2/3 garbage. :smallmad:

Thankfully, the fluff has inspired the community to rally in its defense.

[hamishspence]

I thought the shadowcaster was merely slightly underpowered rather than outright bad.

Fixes for it are, I'm told, simpler and easier than for the Truenamer.

[Ravens_cry]

Fixes for it are, I'm told, simpler and easier than for the Truenamer.
Which is too bad, because the flavour is epic, with the ancient and mythic feel of Old Magic. The power of names and words is one of humanities oldest concepts.
From Ged of Earthsea, to the Golem of Prague, to "In the Beginning was the Word.", it evokes something in me.

[Fax Celestis]

Incarnum is like Legos: you have a base framework (your character), and every morning you get to add on parts (soulmelds). Some of these you get to bind to specific parts of your body (chakra binds): doing so powers them up for further function but turns them into an item. You also get a small number of divots (essentia): you can rearrange these as a swift action, and attaching them to specific parts makes them stronger. Higher level characters get more binds and more spots on their parts to hook divots to.

[Kyeudo]

Which is too bad, because the flavour is epic, with the ancient and mythic feel of Old Magic. The power of names and words is one of humanities oldest concepts.
From Ged of Earthsea, to the Golem of Prague, to "In the Beginning was the Word.", it evokes something in me.

Follow the link in my signature if you want something that works.

[Psyren]

Follow the link in my signature if you want something that works.

Listen to this man, it's good eatin'. :smallwink:

[Yora]

Huh, I guess it's just one of the universes weird coincidences then. I mean, it's not like colour themed orders and groups are uncommon either.

There are also the Topaz Guardians, and I think also an Emerald organization and a Ruby prestige class. You get that kind of things everywhere.

[Sir Swindle89]

There are also the Topaz Guardians, and I think also an Emerald organization and a Ruby prestige class. You get that kind of things everywhere.

Ya but those are single things in books, Incarnum's main Adjectives are Azure, Saphire, Midnight, and Indego the WHOLE BOOK is blue themed.

They might as well have started the intro with "Yo, listen up here's a story."

[Psyren]

They might as well have started the intro with "Yo, listen up here's a story."

Thanks a lot, you made me spray coffee everywhere laughing.

(I firmly believe Eiffel 65 was a front for a secret society of meldshapers.)

[Sir Swindle89]

(I firmly believe Eiffel 65 was a front for a secret society of meldshapers.)

In my campaign setting they sure as **** are.

[Fax Celestis]

Ya but those are single things in books, Incarnum's main Adjectives are Azure, Saphire, Midnight, and Indego the WHOLE BOOK is blue themed.

That's because essentia--the very stuff that makes up souls, and due to how meldshaping works, makes up soulmelds--is blue. It's completely explained in the fluff.

[Kyeudo]

That's because essentia--the very stuff that makes up souls, and due to how meldshaping works, makes up soulmelds--is blue. It's completely explained in the fluff.

Why is my soul blue? I mean, I'd honestly expect it to be transparent instead of blue.

[tyckspoon]

The art usually presents it as a translucent blue, for what that's worth. Why blue? Why not? *shrug* Some of the concept art for it was probably rendered in blue, so the writers went 'ok, why not.'

[Fax Celestis]

Why is my soul blue? I mean, I'd honestly expect it to be transparent instead of blue.

It IS. It's translucent blue. Like this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91039.jpg
or this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91040.jpg
or this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91049.jpg
or this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91056.jpg
or this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91229.jpg
or this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91246.jpg

[Psyren]

Why is my soul blue? I mean, I'd honestly expect it to be transparent instead of blue.

Blue is the most popular color according to marketing surveys. So my guess is that MoI was calculated to appeal to the widest demographic, once they realized Incarnum needed some kind of visual cue to make its involvement obvious.

For instance, if they just said "you see a transparent, ghostly creature" the players would think "wraith" rather than "incarnum wraith" for instance.

[AnswersQuestion]

My only problem with Incarnum is that the book really didn't make it easy...so here's some attempt to help. Anyone is free to copy and improve on it.

Glossary!

Incarnum: Generic matter which souls are made of. It is blue.
Soulmeld: Items made of incarnum, created and used by Meldshapers.
Meldshaper: Someone capable of manipulating incarnum.
Chakra: Part of the body, all chakras are equivalent to a magic item slot.
Bind: Secondary way of using a Soulmeld, occupies the chakra (thus forbidding a magic item there) for added effects.
Essentia: Essentially (pun intended), it's an energy that you can invest on soulmelds, incarnum feats and racial abilities from incarnum-centric races.
Incarnate: Incarnum-centered class, only class that can bind to all slots before epic levels and has different abilities based on alignment.
Totemist: Incarnum-centered class, has an unique chakra and focuses on natural attacks and abilities common to magical beasts.
Soulborn: Incarnum using class, has the least progression of incarnum powers and has different abilities based on alignment.
Skarn, Rilkan: New races with a common ancestor.
Duskling: New race, a fey with extra essentia that can use it to adjust its own speed.
Azurin: New race, humans touched by incarnum, with extra essentia and a shorter life span.


Basics!

The incarnum classes gain essentia and the ability to bind soulmelds to more chakras over the levels. The number of soulmelds they can prepare depends on their class level(each class has its table) and their constitution score (the user can shape up to CON-10 soulmelds).
All incarnum classes know all soulmelds available for their class.

Once per day, an incarnum user chooses which soulmelds he wants to prepare, but all Soulmelds must be of different chakras. Soulmelds with an alignment opposite to yours may not be shaped.
If the incarnum user can bind soulmelds, he chooses which (if any) will be bound during preparation. Magic items can't be used on chakras with bound soulmelds.
Once shaped, they're always active and the incarnum user can allocate essentia to each of them. Each soulmeld can only hold a certain amount of essentia, determined by character level. The allocation lasts until the user wills to change them(a swift action).


Soulmelds grant bonuses to different things like:
Attack
AC
Spell Resistance
Saving throws
Skills (almost all of them)

Emulate spells like
Protection Against Alignment
True Seeing

New movement modes like flying and climbing

More attack modes like a ranged acid attack and extra limbs.

Class features like
Uncanny Dodge
Evasion


That's the core of the mechanics, I think. All exceptions are tied to the class descriptions (for example, incarnates can invest more essentia on the soulmelds than other incarnum users).
Read the soulmelds' descriptions to pick what you want today!

[Greenish]

look likes you used your soul to duplicate magic items powers.Not just your soul, but everyone's souls: the souls of the dead, the living and the yet unborn.

[Ravens_cry]

All this talk of Incarnum makes makes me blue.
But seriously, check out the art gallary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20050909a&page=1), almost all the art, including magic items , that is in colour, is somewhat azure. I find the Necrocarnate attractive (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91233.jpg), in that androgynous gothic kind of way.