Warforged Speech

[Hanuman]

So, uh, how exactly does this work?
So I think we agree that it's "magic sound", but how does magic sound function?
What are the differences to regular sound, besides not being able to pierce antimagic fields?

[FelixG]

I would think that even if it is magical creation of sound it would work in an anti magic field just like the rest of the construct does.

you could explain it as billows instead of lungs over thin strips of wood to somehow create the vibrations for speech :smallbiggrin:

Another fun warforged deal: if they loose their head (via something like Vorpal) they can still operate just like any of their other construct kin. meaning they can still see and are not blinded, thus you could blindfold them and they would be just fine :P

[Shpadoinkle]

So, uh, how exactly does this work?
By magic.


So I think we agree that it's "magic sound", but how does magic sound function?
It's magic. By definition magic doesn't have a logical explanation, otherwise it would be called science and not magic.


What are the differences to regular sound, besides not being able to pierce antimagic fields?
Besides the origin, none.

[bloodtide]

I'd say that warforged speech is not magical at all. It's pure mechanical.

After all, there is no magic to human speech....it's just air moving over some bits of flesh.

And while warforged don't 'need' the breathe, that does not say that they don't 'use air' at all.

Though you could say a bit of magic makes a warforged voice 'sound human', and if it was in an anti magic field it would sound a bit more like the W.H.O.M.P.E.R.('would you like to play a game?') or Hawking.

[Ravens_cry]

Eh, by definition, yes, Shpadoinkle. But D&D magic works so consistently, it is a science. A science that couldn't work in our universe or any that run by its rules, but certainly one in that universe.
How much is magic, and how much is mundane engineering is a personal fluff choice by the DM, but magic as an explanation has no solidity, no depth. Narratively, it is often unsatisfying.

[Hanuman]

Or transformers.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure they don't use air.

Or else they'd not be able to talk while under the effects of a drown spell for instance.

I always imagined it more like a magical vibration, it doesn't need to expel air to do it because the vibration comes from it's head like a speaker, and speakers are mechanical (magnetic linear actuator) so that makes sense, there's probably some sort of non-"magical" energy at work if it works within a field.

But then, why do warforged work?

[Splendor]

Since warforged don't breathe they couldn't play wind musical instruments.....

[Coidzor]

Because they're mage-punk robots that are animated and powered by a hole ripped into the fabric of the universe to the positive energy plane, much how undead are animated and powered by a hole ripped into the fabric of the universe to the negative energy plane?

That's how I always understood it.

[Hanuman]

Since warforged don't breathe they couldn't play wind musical instruments.....
True, but they could sing forever.


Because they're mage-punk robots that are animated and powered by a hole ripped into the fabric of the universe to the positive energy plane, much how undead are animated and powered by a hole ripped into the fabric of the universe to the negative energy plane?

That's how I always understood it.
Ah I see.

[Coidzor]

True, but they could sing forever.

I believe there is some fun to be had with a warforged bard and a lyre of building.

[Hanuman]

I believe there is some fun to be had with a warforged bard and a lyre of building.
Ooo, that's clever.

[Gnorman]

They all talk like HK-47.

[Master_Rahl22]

Query: Why is it that meatbags always think I sound funny? :smallbiggrin:

I totally have to talk like that the next time I play a Warforged.

[Psyren]

While their speech is indeed magical, it's not so magical that they become mute in an AMF.

[Ravens_cry]

While their speech is indeed magical, it's not so magical that they become mute in an AMF.
Which begs the question of: why? Why isn't it affected? Giving some mundane answer makes more sense, IMHO.

[Psyren]

Which begs the question of: why? Why isn't it affected? Giving some mundane answer makes more sense, IMHO.

It could be extraordinary, i.e. violates the laws of physics/biology without being overtly magical.

[Ravens_cry]

It could be extraordinary, i.e. violates the laws of physics/biology without being overtly magical.
In other words it violates OUR laws of physics and biology. I don't own any Eberron books. When it says they don't breath, does it ever say they can't use wind instruments? They could still be pumping gases, breathable or not past artificial vocal cords otherwise. Or the base vibrations shaped by their mouths could come from vibrating reeds, vibrated by the same forces that animate the rest of their body.

[Psyren]

In other words it violates OUR laws of physics and biology.

Yes, that's what I meant. :smalltongue:


I don't own any Eberron books. When it says they don't breath, does it ever say they can't use wind instruments? They could still be pumping gases, breathable or not past artificial vocal cords otherwise. Or the base vibrations shaped by their mouths could come from vibrating reeds, vibrated by the same forces that animate the rest of their body.

It's possible, sure - but the need to vibrate things to create speech is still a function of our physics and biology.

Consider undead - many of them don't breathe (and in fact can't) but are able to speak, e.g. Wraiths and Liches. The source of their sound is pure negative energy; couldn't Warforged have something similar?

[Sir Swindle89]

Their muscles are apparently made of living wood in cannon.

They could just have another living wood muscle vibrating their voice speaker.

[AslanCross]

On the subject of antimagic fields--they don't dispel golems in their area, right? I think that warforged don't get messed up by AMFs either.

[Ravens_cry]

It's possible, sure - but the need to vibrate things to create speech is still a function of our physics and biology.

Consider undead - many of them don't breathe (and in fact can't) but are able to speak, e.g. Wraiths and Liches. The source of their sound is pure negative energy; couldn't Warforged have something similar?
They don't need to breath in the sense of of needing air, but both Liches and Wraiths are formed from bodies. They could still be pumping air from their deteriorating lungs, now basically bladders like in a set of bagpipes, past the voice box.

Their muscles are apparently made of living wood in cannon.

They could just have another living wood muscle vibrating their voice speaker.
Well yes, that's basically what I meant. As Mythbusters showed with their infrasonic internal combustion powered speaker, an electromagnet is not the only possible power source for a speaker. Though giving the technological level of the world, reeds or strings make more sense.

[HunterOfJello]

The Eberron Campaign Setting and Races of Eberron state that Warforged do, "not need to eat, sleep, or breathe." However, just because they don't need to do something doesn't mean they can't. Therefore, it is plausible that in the same way that Warforged do not need to eat but can still consume potions and heroes' feast that they can blow air in and out of their bodies through their mouth, but do not require to do so to stay alive as most living creatures do.

[FelixG]

They don't need to breath in the sense of of needing air, but both Liches and Wraiths are formed from bodies. They could still be pumping air from their deteriorating lungs, now basically bladders like in a set of bagpipes, past the voice box.



Er a Wraith...with a body?

Last I checked they were incorporeal, as in no body, so they just vibrate the air around them to make sound with their natural awesome :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

Er a Wraith...with a body?

Last I checked they were incorporeal, as in no body, so they just vibrate the air around them to make sound with their natural awesome :smallbiggrin:

Sorry,I was thinking of ghouls and ghasts for some reason. In their case they ARE, being incorporeal undead, explicitly suppressed by antimagic feild (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicfield.htm), voice and all, so a magic solution fits.

[Hanuman]

Though giving the technological level of the world, reeds or strings make more sense.
The technological level of what world? Ebberon? Mechanus?
'fraid I disagree. I'd figure it was a vibrating crystal.

[Ravens_cry]

The technological level of what world? Ebberon? Mechanus?
'fraid I disagree. I'd figure it was a vibrating crystal.
Well, warforged don't come from Mechanus, at least not in Ebberon.
Anywaym, the point is, something vibrating, either set in motion by a medium passing by something, or by motion set up by the living wood muscles of the warforged, makes better sense then 'it's magic.' when it isn't affected by things that affect magic.

[Hanuman]

Well, warforged don't come from Mechanus, at least not in Ebberon.
Anywaym, the point is, something vibrating, either set in motion by a medium passing by something, or by motion set up by the living wood muscles of the warforged, makes better sense then 'it's magic.' when it isn't affected by things that affect magic.
Modrons come from mechanus :smallsmile:
http://www.deathstar.org/~krlipka/ps/sense/3erules/race_modron.jpg

Well who says the crystal vibrating is magic? Crystals already vibrate IRL, that's how we have quartz watches. Whatever is powering the warforged mind is doing that, maybe the apparently non-magical electrical signals going through it's brain-like-thing are pulsing into the crystal.

[Aotrs Commander]

Also, Xykon, an example of what I, at least, think of as a steritypical Lich (e.g. skeleton, not zombie) very definately doesn't have any lungs. One finds it hard to imagine and AMF would shut him up. (Has he ever been exposed to one...?)

Presumably speaking (and for that matter, utlising any sense) is part of the exact same processes that keep constructs, elementals and non-incorporeal Undead ticking over and functional within an anti-magic field or even a null magic area. The process of creating the sound is as magical as the ability as to not be dead, but the sound itself is non-magical vibrations. In the same way that the Orb series of spells can be thought of as being basically a blaster pistol than creates the balster bolt by magic instead of technology.

Or perhaps you might say that basic physiological functions are as to advanced magical effects (e.g. magic/psionics/supernatural abilities, i.e thinsg that get blocked by an AMF) are as related as simple mechanical systems to powered equipment. I.e. a phaser might stop working in and EMP field (or anti-technology field), but a crossbow wouldn't. So the "simple" magical functions work in a slightly different way that and AMF can't block; anologue to digital as it were.



*psuedo-scientific bulls- yeah, you get the idea.

[Sir Swindle89]

Theres no real precedent saying it's a crystal so saying it is shouldn't really be the first assumption.

[Psyren]

They don't need to breath in the sense of of needing air, but both Liches and Wraiths are formed from bodies. They could still be pumping air from their deteriorating lungs, now basically bladders like in a set of bagpipes, past the voice box.

It is possible to have liches without lungs (e.g. Xykon, who is indistinguishable from a Skeleton; or a Dry Lich, whose organs are in jars.)

Wraiths, of course, have no lungs at all.

I understand the desire to make your magic as consistent with physics as possible, but past a certain point you just have to give up and rely on "it's magic."


On the subject of antimagic fields--they don't dispel golems in their area, right? I think that warforged don't get messed up by AMFs either.

Correct, they do not.
Though magic is involved in their construction, there is a point after which such creatures do not need external magic to function, thus AMFs cease to affect them.

[Hanuman]

I think this is more along the lines of soul magic TBH. I think the main difference between a Construct type and a Living construct type is that a living construct has soul type A where as a construct has soul type B.

So, it could either be soul magic, which is one of the guesses.

Or, it could be a positive/negative energy matter, which as energy need not be magical, the same as fire need not be magical. Positive life energy, undead would be negative.

Spirits do not exist under negative energy such as ghosts and such, spirits seem to have an intrinsic unending power source, which does fit with how warforged seem to run forever, either that or a warforged might be built with a surplus of so much positive energy that they will never run out, which is far less likely as they could detonate presumably.

Undead are negative, but it's much easier to assume a vacuum as it would fuel itself with whatever sustains it.

I say soul type A and type B because something animated like an elemental may be a living thing with a mind and a soul sometimes, but they are more like nature spirits and you might as well resurrect a tree or a forest or a mountain if you're going to resurrect an elemental. Constructs are the same way I guess, but living constructs are "something special".

[Ravens_cry]

Modrons come from mechanus :smallsmile:
http://www.deathstar.org/~krlipka/ps/sense/3erules/race_modron.jpg

Well who says the crystal vibrating is magic? Crystals already vibrate IRL, that's how we have quartz watches. Whatever is powering the warforged mind is doing that, maybe the apparently non-magical electrical signals going through it's brain-like-thing are pulsing into the crystal.
Did I say that? No I didn't, I merely said something vibrating,it could indeed be a crystal.
As for everyone mentioning Xycon, the art style is too simplified to really tell much anatomical details. As for Dy Lich, they may not have lungs, but they do potentially have voice boxes. By vibrating that directly, a voice could be produced. As for Wraiths, they are stopped by anti-magic feilds, so a pure magic solution is consistent, as already mentioned.
Am I grasping at straws here? Yes.

[Doresain]

i assumed they all talked in the same fashion as Alphonse from FMA...the voice just seems to come out of the body

i mean warforged dont have lips or a way to really shape what functions as their lip in order to speak properly in the first place (based on how the art for their face is done), so i just give them "magical" voice boxes

[Hanuman]

i assumed they all talked in the same fashion as Alphonse from FMA...the voice just seems to come out of the body

i mean warforged dont have lips or a way to really shape what functions as their lip in order to speak properly in the first place (based on how the art for their face is done), so i just give them "magical" voice boxes

2 very good points, it did have a sort of metalic reverb to it in FMA, I assume it would have a sort of dull reverb from the wood.

[Psyren]

As for everyone mentioning Xycon, the art style is too simplified to really tell much anatomical details.

The art is irrelevant. Redcloak himself says he is indistinguishable from a human skeleton, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html) and this even becomes a plot point in the book.


As for Dy Lich, they may not have lungs, but they do potentially have voice boxes. By vibrating that directly, a voice could be produced.

You seem to be grasping at straws now. Without lungs, they can neither take in air nor expel it, so how would such vibrations be produced? And that explanationis contingent on the voice box even being intact, which is by no means certain.

Then we get to living incorporeal beings that can speak, like a Spirit of the Land or a Psion Uncarnate - AMF does nothing to their ability to talk.