They see me trollin'... [3.5 Monsters/Races]

[Admiral Squish]

After looking through some works on elfwood (This (http://andersson.elfwood.com/Day-of-the-Lure.2524319.html) and this (http://andersson.elfwood.com/Day-of-the-Bond.3532625.html) specifically), I really like the way they handle trolls. Now, trolls are awesome, don't get me wrong, but I always thought they were somewhat overly typecast. Big man-eating dudes that are hard to kill. So, here I am, making trolls more interesting and even more dangerous. Like they needed the help.
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Long, long ago, trolls were a savage species, very similar to the orcs. Their strong, tough nature allowed them to live almost anywhere. The trolls were a proud race that reveled in their physical superiority over others. Their pride was their downfall, however, and when a troll tribe accosted a god wandering the earth, their bloodline was cursed. They would have their strength. They would have more strength than they would ever need. But their minds would decay as their bodies grew, and each generation would become more and more animal until the trolls become unreasoning, flesh-eating beasts. The trolls were given great strength, incredible regenerative abilities, and nearly infinite lifespans. But each troll as it aged would grow bigger, stronger, and weaker of mind and will until the trolls became ancient titans that would savage the countryside, eating everything. For generations, the trolls existed in a twilight of rational though and bestial fury. But finally, the trolls have begun to find methods of limiting their curse, and are beginning to break away from the savage image that they lived with.

The trolls quickly learned that there are only two things that slow the descent into animal madness. One is combat. The troll society rapidly became a constantly self-destructive cycle of battle. Even within the same family group, the trolls are expected to fight one another each night until only one remains standing. The first to fall is often given chores to do once their regeneration brings them back to consciousness. This constant self-destruction slows the process of animalism, but it doesn’t stop it. The other way is through breeding with the humanoids. Elves, humans, dwarves, orcs, even goblinoids all are capable of diluting the bloodline of the trolls. Traditionally, trolls would go down from their mountain homes to humanoid settlements and kidnap suitable mates and force the issue. In modern times, willing mates and even marriages are becoming more and more common, though still relatively rare.

If a troll mates with a humanoid, the offspring is a typical troll. If a troll mates with another troll, the offspring is known as a torog, a larger, stronger, more resilient breed of troll. Torog are still intelligent, though they have extreme tempers and descend much more quickly into the animal state. A torog and a troll mating produce another torog. Torog mating with humanoids bear trolls. A torog mating with another torog is strictly prohibited. The offspring of this union is known as a jotun. Jotun are bloodthirsty beasts, purely animal. They are cunning like wolves, and able to fend for themselves from the moment of birth. Mature jotun are bigger and stronger still than their torog parents, and a fully-grown jotun is capable of eating an entire mountain clean of life. A jotun is almost always killed at birth these days, because once mature, jotun are nearly impossible to kill, and the grisly task may require several families of trolls to work together in order to slay it. Back in the olden days, there was a fourth troll breed, a race of titanic monsters that were completely unstoppable, monsters that killed and ate anything they could find. But in recent years, the trolls have gotten better at managing themselves and the fourth breed hasn't been seen in a hundred years.

[Admiral Squish]

Troll Breeds:

There are several varieties of troll that wander through the world, each with their own unique adaptations.

Mountain:
Mountain trolls are the largest breed of trolls, even young ones towering over humans.

Troll:
Large Giant
HD: 1d8+1 (5 HP)
Speed: 30 ft. (6 Squares)
Init: -1
AC: 15 (+3 Studded Leather, +4 Natural, -1 size, -1 dex) 8 Touch, 15 flat-footed.
BAB/Grapple: +0/+7
Attack: Greataxe +3 melee (3d6+4) or Bite +3 melee (1d8+4)
Full-Attack Greataxe +3 melee (3d6+4) and Bite -2 melee (1d8+1)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: Low-Light Vision, Regeneration 1, Scent
Saves: Fort +3 Ref -1 Will +0
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8
Skills: Spot +4
Feats: Power Attack
Environment: Cold Mountains
Organization: Solitary, Pair, Family (2-4 plus 2 elder trolls and 1 torog)
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure Standard
Alignment: Usually Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: See Table
Level Adjustment: +2

The massive creature before you stands ten feet tall. It looks vaguely like a giant, but the long ears, fur-tipped tail and tusks mark it as a troll. It's long hair flows over it's shoulders and down it's back, almost reaching the base of it's tail. In it's claw-like hands it carries what resembles a tree trunk.

Mountain trolls are some of the largest trolls, growing constantly through their lives, reaching huge sizes. Both males and females wear their hair incredibly long, using the thick curtains of hair much like a cloak. Mountain troll have good trade relationships with other mountain-dwellers, mostly giants, goliaths, and sometimes dwarves.

Combat:
Mountain trolls hunt alone, or as families, and when they fight they take full advantage of their massive strength and power attack feat.

Regeneration: A highland troll's regeneration is overcome by acid, cold, and fire damage. If a highland troll loses a limb or body part, the severed portion regrows over the next hour.


Mountain Trolls as Characters:

+6 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -2 int, -2 cha. Mountain trolls are stong and tough, but their bulk makes them less than agile, and they are not known for their intellect of frendliness.
Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
A mountain troll's base land speed is 30 feet.
+4 natural armor bonus
Natural weapons: Bite (1d8)
Special Qualities (See above): Regeneration 1, Scent
Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus languages: Orc, Goblin, Dwarven, Gol-kaa
Favored Class: Barbarian
Level Adjustment: +2



Mountain torogs basically resemble more mature mountain trolls. They start big and only get bigger. The females and the males both share the apelike posture, often knuckle-walking to go faster. Their skin is rough and gray and their hair is usually dark and slightly greasy. A torog’s tusks are longer than it’s troll parents, more like a boar’s tusks, and their tails are thicker and stronger. As mountain torogs age, their skin takes on a rocky appearance, and they grow bony horns and protrusions from their shoulders, elbows, and knuckles.

Mountain jotun are huge engines of destruction that uproot trees in their massive fists, hurl house-sized boulders, and generally reshape the landscape. Mountain jotun are as large as their parents by the time they’re adults and reach frighteningly huge sizes. Mountain jotun are some of the most dangerous jotun because they regularly cause avalanches and rockslides, and they consume huge amounts of food. A mountain jotun can upset the entire food chain of a mountain. A mountain jotun’s tusks are huge and curving, resembling a mastodon’s.

Forest:
Forest trolls are a smaller, more clever breed of trolls.

A forest troll looks like some mix of spider monkey, human, and lizard. They have long, narrow bodies and four long, slender arms with bony fingers. At the end. Forest trolls generally have shorter hair on their head, but they have a short strip of fur running down their neck to the middle of their backs. They share the common marks of a troll, the slender tail tipped with a puff of fur, the short tusks, the long, pointed ears. A forest troll’s tail is prehensile, but not dexterous enough to hold weapons. Most forest trolls spend very little time on the ground. They walk upright, but they usually prefer climbing to walking when it’s an option. They climb like lizard, but they brachiate through trees like monkeys. Adult forest trolls are about the same size as humans, perhaps slightly taller and thinner, and they don’t get too much larger as they age.

A forest torog’s mane and tusks are much longer than it’s parent’s. As an adult, it’s body is about the size of a lion, and it rarely, if ever walks on the ground. When it does, it usually stays on four of it’s six limbs, though they’re capable of a hunched upright walk. Forest torogs are ferocious hunters and extremely quick. As they grow, their tusks and mane get longer, and the mane extends further and further down their backs.

A forest jotun is a bloodthirsty predator. Swift, stealthy, and dangerous, an adult forest jotun is the size of a tiger. It’s tusks are sharp and serrated and it’s mane extends all the way down it’s body. It moves like a massive snake and pounces like a tiger. It savages anything that approaches it, and eats anything that moves.

Cave:
A more savage troll breed found in deep caves of the underdark. Rather than fight the savagery, the cave trolls have embraced it.

A cave troll is broad and stocky, built like an eight-foot dwarf. They have pale skin and reddish hair, with large eyes. Atop their pale skin sits dark bony plates, studded with bony spikes here and there. Their tails are short an thick, and their long ears are exceptionally wide. From their forehead emerges a pair of long, curving horns that arc back over the top of their head. Cave trolls have fully embraced the powerful savagery of their bloodline and wander the underdark as hungry, furious savages. As the cave trolls age, their bony spikes and horns grow, and the bony plates expand to cover more and more of their skin.

Cave torogs are bigger, meaner, and more spiny than cave trolls. Thick, bony armor covers a cave torog‘s body. Their horns are longer, and their hair extends down their back, followed by a double-row of spines.

A cave Jotun is not much larger than a cave torog. They are bulkier, but not much taller. Their horns develop a spiral as they grow, and their tails grow thicker. The bony armor becomes thicker and harder, and the spikes become more pronounced and larger.

War:
War trolls are a strictly disciplined society of warriors.

A war troll is large and incredibly tough. It is said war trolls were bred by ancient mages to make the perfect warriors. It’s also said that they succeeded. War troll warbands are a terrible force. Their limited numbers are the only thing to keep them back from conquering entire nations. A war troll has green, rubbery skin, and a long, hooked nose. Their hair is black and kept tied back in a long braid. Their pointed ears are slender and their tails are long and thin, with black fur on the end. Their tusks are small, and most make an effort to tuck their upper lips over them. As they grow older, the typical trollish signs become more and more pronounced. Their skin gets thicker and their muscles expand. Once a war troll becomes old, he is generally forced out of the public eye.

War torogs are born into slavery to the war troll military. They are viewed as little more than animals, and are basically used as living siege engines. War torogs are huge, muscular hulks with long, curving tusks and terrible strength. War torogs are carefully controlled, and never permitted to mate, especially not with one another. A war torog that become pregnant or sires a child is executed immediately. War trolls are determined to avoid the animal state of the jotun at all costs. Which is wise because war Jotun are nearly indestructible and even a single war Jotun would likely spell doom to the entire community.

Crystal:
Crystal Trolls are rumored to be the result of breeding with earth elementals.

A crystal troll rapidly grows to it's adult nine-foot height, but even ancient crystal trolls rarely grow beyond 12 feet in height. Crystal trolls are, however, extremely sturdy for their size. A crystal troll basically resemble other trolls, though the main difference is that a crystal troll looks to be entirely composed of faceted rock crystal. Crystal trolls dwell in the foothills of mountains, living in shallow caves. An adult crystal troll bears a number of short crystal spines along their shoulders, neck, head and back. the main way to tell the age of a crystal troll is the size of their spines. Young crystals have nubs that will eventually grow into full spines, whereas elder crystals have foot-long spurs emerging from their backs. One oddity of crystal trolls is that they lack the tails and pointed ears of their cousins, though they still bear a set of crystal tusks.

A crystal torog bears many of the same features as a crystal troll, though slightly larger. While a crystal troll has sharp, precise facets in their flesh, a crystal torog's facets are rough and uneven. Their spines are long soon after birth, and they bear spikes at the elbows, knees, and knuckles.

A crystal jotun is diamond-hard. While only slightly larger than a crystal torog, they are significantly stronger and their diamond-hard claws can peirce armor. The facets of their flesh are rough, jagged. Their spines are rough, unlike the spearlike pyramids of a crystal troll, a crystal jotun's spines rarely end in sharp points.

Sea:
Sea trolls are an aquatic race that dwell in costal waters or large lakes.

An adult sea troll stands about 9 feet tall, with rubbery smooth skin that is a deep blue or green on their back and limbs, but pale on their chest, belly, and the front of their thighs. Their fingers and toes are webbed, which make them awkward on land. Their bodies are extremely streamlined with a rounded head fading straight into their chest and a flat face, giving them a resemblance to giant walking frogs. Their tails are large and meaty, flattened vertically to allow for use as a rudder underwater, but it lacks it's signature tuft of fur. Their pointed ears bear the tufts instead, which function like the whiskers of a catfish. As a sea troll grows, it mostly grows in stature, often reaching 15 feet by old age.though there are some other minor changes, which include the tail becoming shorter and the webbing of their fingers and toes spreading further up the digits.

Sea torogs are bigger and broader of chest than the sea trolls, with short tails and extra-long fingers and toes. Their arms and legs are stronger, and their claws sharper. They tend to favor deeper waters than normal sea trolls, and they hunt bigger fish.

Sea Jotuns have almost no tails, but their fingers and toes are incredibly long and fully webbed. A sea jotun never leaves the water it it dwells almost exclusively in the deep waters. An adult sea jotun is over 25 feet from head to toe, and they can reach 40 feet by maturity. A sea jotun's mouthful of fangs is capable of biting holes in the keel of a sailing vessel, and they are known to do just that to devour the sailors that leap overboard. Sea jotuns hunt whales and giant sharks. Thankfully, the oceans they frequent are deep enough that they pose some of the least threat to humans, but the deepest waters may be home to any number of sea jotuns, breeding colonies left over from when the troll curse was young.

Highland:
Highland trolls are the most common breed of troll.They inhabit the foothills of mountains, living in small clans and dwelling in wood-walled villages. They have a strongly battle-oriented society.

Troll:
Medium Giant
HD 1d8+1 (5 HP)
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Init: -1
AC 14 (+3 Studded Leather, -1 dex, +2 natural), Touch 9, flat-footed 14
BAB/Grapple: +0/+6
Attack Greatclub +2 melee (2d8+3) or Bite +2 melee (1d8+3)
Full-Attack Greatclub +2 melee (2d8+3) and Bite -3 melee (1d8+1)
Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks
Special Qualities Low-light vision, Powerful Build, Regeneration 1, Scent
Saves Fort +3, Ref -1, Will +0
Abilities Str 14, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8
Skills +4 Spot
Feats Power Attack
Environment Cold Hills
Organization Solitary, Pair, Family (2-4 plus 2 elder trolls and 1 torog), or clan (20-40, plus 5-10 elder trolls and 3-10 torogs.)
Challenge Rating 1
Treasure Standard
Alignment Usually chaotic neutral
Advancement (see chart)
Level Adjustment +1

The humanoid creature standing before you looks like a very large orc, complete with green skin and short tusks. However, a pair of long, pointed ears emerge from it's long black hair and a long tail tipped with fur swishes behind it. It stands before you in a suit of studded leather, with a massive club over it's shoulder.

Young highland trolls stand about seven or eight feet tall and weight about 500 pounds, but they grow all through their lives. As they grow, a male's nose will expand, becoming large and bulbous. A female's nose will grow as well, but not nearly as fast, and it will develop a slight hook. Both males and females develop spots of darker green on their arms, chest, back, shoulders, and face. Their tusks become more pronounced and their tails longer and thicker. By old age, a highland troll can be 15 feet tall.

Combat:
Highland trolls may not be particularly intelligent, but they are quite strong, and they have been fighting practically from birth, so even young trolls have plenty of experience in battle. Single trolls fight recklessly, depending on their regeneration to protect them. Larger groups use tactics, rotating two or three groups of trolls. One group attacks and fades back once they're injured, waiting for their regeneration to restore them while the second group moves in. This rotation can lead to long battles, but the trolls are smart enough to know that time is on their side.

Powerful Build: The physical stature of a highland troll lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a highland troll is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the highland troll is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A highland troll is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A highland troll can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Regeneration: A highland troll's regeneration is overcome by acid, cold, and fire damage. If a highland troll loses a limb or body part, the severed portion regrows over the next hour.

Highland Trolls as Characters:

+4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -2 int, -2 cha. Highland trolls are stong and tough opponent, but their bulk makes them less than agile, and they are not known for their intellect.
Medium Size: No special bonuses or penalties based on size
A highland troll's base land speed is 30 feet.
+2 natural armor bonus
Natural weapons: Bite (1d8)
Special Qualities (See above): Powerful Build, Regeneration 1, Scent
Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus languages: Orc, Goblin
Favored Class: Barbarian
Level Adjustment: +1



Torog:
Large Giant
HD 6d8+36 (63 HP)
Speed 30 Ft. (6 squares)
Init:+2
AC: 19 (+3 studded leather, +5 natural, +2 dex, -1 size) Touch 11, Flat-Footed 17
BAB/Grapple: +4/+14
Attack Club +10 Melee (1d8+6) or Bite +10 Melee (1d8+3) or Claw +10 melee (1d6+6)
Full-Attack Club +10 melee (1d8+6) and Bite +10 Melee (1d8+3) and Claw +10 melee (1d6+6), or 2 Claws +10 melee (1d6+6) and Bite +10 Melee (1d8+3)
Space/Reach10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks Rend 2d6+9
Special Qualities Low-Light Vision, Regeneration 5
Saves Fort +11, Ref +4, Will +2
Abilities Str 22, Dex 14, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 6
Skills Survival +9
Feats Power attack, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack
Environment Cold Hills
Organization Solitary, Pair, Family (1 plus 2 elder trolls and 2-4 young trolls), or clan (3-10, plus 5-10 elder trolls and 20-50 young trolls.)
Challenge Rating 5
Treasure Standard
Alignment Usually Chaotic Neutral
Advancement See Table
Level Adjustment +5

The massive, green-skinned giant before you stands 10 feet tall, and shows the typical signs of trollish ancestry. It's tusks curve slightly over its upper lip, it's pointed ears emerging from a mot of tangled, black hair, and the long, fur-tipped tail that sways slowly behind it. It's posture is hunched slightly and it's long limbs end in sharp claws. It's face is dominated by its nose, a large, fleshy one, framed by it's tusks.

Highland torogs start big and only get bigger. As they grow, their intellect shrinks and they get meaner and meaner. Most torogs descend into animalism after about 100 years, if they're not ritually executed by then. A wild torog is a dangerous foe.

Combat:
Torogs are not intelligent foes. Wild torogs are often found wearing no armor, or crude hide armor at best. The wild torog fights like an animal, attacking with its claws and teeth or occasionally with a tree branch as a club. The more civilized torogs often wield massive axes and wear studded leather, fighting with their fury honed to a fine edge. Torogs of all descriptions are usually quick to anger, and they fight recklessly, depending on their regeneration and sheer strength to carry them through battles.

Rend:
If a highland torog hits an opponent with both claw attacks in the same round, it latches on and tears the flesh, dealing 2d6+9 damage.

Regeneration: A highland torog's regeneration is overcome by acid, cold, and fire damage. If a highland troll loses a limb or body part, the severed portion regrows in 5d6 minutes.

Highland Torogs as characters: The highland torog presented here is only for NPC use. A significant portion of highland torogs have barbarian levels instead of RHD.

+12 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +12 Constitution, -4 Intelligence (minimum 3), -2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma.
Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.

Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
A torog’s base land speed is 30 feet.
low-light vision.
+5 natural armor bonus.
Natural Weapons: 2 Claws (1d6) and bite (1d8).
Special Attacks (see above): Rend, damage 2d6 + 1½ times Str modifier.
Special Qualities: Regeneration 5, scent.
Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus languages: Orc, Goblin
Favored Class: Barbarian
Level adjustment +5.



Jotun:
Large Giant
HD: 12d8+120 (174)
Speed: 30 Ft. (6 Squares)
Init: +4
AC: 22 (+4 Dex, +9 Natural, -1 Size) 13 Touch, 18 Flat-footed
BAB/Grapple: +9/+27
Attack: Bite +19 Melee (2d6+5) or Claw +19 melee (1d8+10)
Full-Attack: Two Claws +19 melee (1d8+10) and Bite +19 Melee (2d6+5)
Space/Reach: 10 Ft/10 ft.
Special Attacks: Rend, Improved Grab
Special Qualities: Powerful Build, Low-light Vision, Scent, Regeneration 9
Saves: Fort +18 Ref +8 Will +6
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 18, Con 30, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 2
Skills: Survival +17
Feats: Power Attack, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack, Track
Environment: Cold Hills
Organization: Solitary or Pair
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure None
Alignment: Usually Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: See Table
Level Adjustment: -

the monster before you stands about 15 feet tell. It's green hide is covered with darker spots. It's hunched frame and long arms make it look almost apelike. Long tusks emerge from it's lower lip, and behind it a fur-tipped tail sways, dragging along the ground. It's hair is thick and shaggy, and a large, bulbous nose dominates the beast's face.

Highland Jotuns stand about 15 feet tall, easily weighing a ton and a half. They are angry, bloodthirsty and combining the worst facets of man an animal. They are cunning predators that feed on anything that can fit in their mouths, and they show a disturbing tendancy for cruelty and will often toy with their food until they get really hungry.

Combat:
Highland Jotun fight like apes. They grab opponents and brutally tear them limb from limb with their massive claws, tossing full grown men around like toys.

Improved Grab:
To use this ability, a highland must hit with a claw attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Rend:
If a highland jotun hits an opponent with both claw attacks in the same round, it latches on and tears the flesh, dealing 3d6+15 damage.

Regeneration: A highland jotun's regeneration is overcome by acid, cold, and fire damage. If a highland troll loses a limb or body part, the severed portion regrows in 1d6 minutes.

Powerful Build: The physical stature of a highland jotun lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a highland jotun is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the highland jotun is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A highland jotun is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A highland jotun can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.


Ymir
Huge Giant
HD: 22d8+374 (473 HP)
Speed: 30 ft.
Init: +7
AC: 30 (+7 Dex, +15 Natural, -2 size) 15 Touch, 23 Flat-footed
BAB/Grapple: +16/+45
Attack: Claw +33 Melee (2d6+17) or Bite +33 Melee (3d6+8)
Full-Attack: 2 Claws +33 Melee (2d6+17) and Bite +33 Melee (3d6+8)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Rend, Improved Grab, Swallow Whole
Special Qualities: Powerful Build, Low-light Vision, Scent, Regeneration 15
Saves: Fort +30 Ref +14 Will +12
Abilities: Str 44, Dex 24, Con 44, Int 2, Wis 20, Cha 2
Skills: Survival +30
Feats: Power Attack, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack, Track
Environment: Cold Hills
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 16
Treasure None
Alignment: Usually Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: See Table
Level Adjustment: -

This titanic monster towers above, it's hulking frame larger than some buildings. Huge, serrated tusks arc out of it's lip, and a thick tail sways behind it. It walks on it's overly-long arms and lopes like an ape. Its huge, hammerlike fists tear boulders and trees from the earth.

A highland ymir is a titanic beast that savages it's way through the countryside. The name of ymir is only laid upon the largest, most dangerous of jotuns, those ancient, legendary titans that dwell in legend and nightmare.

Combat:

Ymir strike their foes with terrifying strength, savaging opponents and even the terrain around them.

Improved Grab:
To use this ability, a highland ymir must hit with a claw attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Rend:
If a highland ymir hits an opponent with both claw attacks in the same round, it latches on and tears the flesh, dealing 3d6+15 damage.

Regeneration:
A highland ymir's regeneration is overcome by acid, cold, and fire damage. If a highland troll loses a limb or body part, the severed portion regrows the following round.

Powerful Build:
The physical stature of a highland ymir lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a highland ymir is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the highland ymir is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A highland ymir is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A highland ymir can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Swallow Whole:
As a move action, a highland ymir can make a grapple check to transfer a grappled opponent at least two sizes smaller than itself to its mouth and swallow the opponent whole. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d6+17 crushing damage and 3d6 acid damage each from the ymir's stomach as it digests the opponent. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the stomach (AC 20). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A highland ymir's stomach may hold 1 large, 4 medium, 16 small, 64 tiny, or 256 diminutive creatures.

[Admiral Squish]

Troll Age Categories:

Age Category|Combat Age|Natural Age
Young|10-20|5-10
Young Adult|21-30|11-20
Adult|31-50|21-30
Mature|51-100|31-60
Old|101-200|61-100
Elder|201-500|101-150
Ancient|500-1000|151-300
Jotunnar|1001+|301+


Age Equivalency
Troll Age|Torog Age|Jotun Age
Young||
Young Adult||
Adult||
Mature||
Old|Young|
Elder|Young Adult|
Ancient|Adult|
Jotunnar|Mature|
|Old|Young
|Elder|Young Adult
|Ancient|Adult
|Jotunnar|Mature
||Old
||Elder
||Ancient
||Jotunnar


Highland Trolls
Troll|Torog|Jotun|Size|Hit Die (HP)|Str|Dex|Con|Int|Wis|Cha|NA|Regen|Specials|LA
YA|||M+|2d8+4 (13)|16|8|14|8|10|8|2|2| 2 Claws (1d6)|2
Ad|||M+|3d8+12 (25)|18|10|18|8|10|6|3|3| Rend (1d6)|3
M|||L|5d8+25 (47)|20|12|20|6|10|6|4|4|Rapid Regrowth|4
O|Y||L|6d8+36 (63)|22|14|22|6|10|6|5|5|Rend (2d6)|5
E|YA||L|8d8+56 (92)|24|14|24|6|12|4|6|6|Improved Grab|6
An|Ad||L+|9d8+64 (104)|26|16|26|4|12|4|7|7|NW Size Up|7
J|M||L+|10d8+90 (135)|28|16|28|4|14|4|8|8|Rend (3d6)|8
|O|Y|L+|12d8+120 (174)|30|18|30|2|14|2|9|9|Blinding Regrowth|
|E|YA|L+|13d8+143 (201)|32|18|32|2|14|2|10|10||
|An|Ad|H|14d8+168 (231)|34|20|34|2|16|2|11|11|Swallow Whole|
|J|M|H|16d8+208 (280)|36|20|36|2|16|2|12|12|Rend (4d6)|
||O|H|17d8+238 (314)|38|22|38|2|16|2|13|13||
||E|H|18d8+270 (351)|40|22|40|2|18|2|14|14|Rend (5d6)|
||An|H|20d8+320 (410)|42|24|42|2|18|2|15|15|Instant Regrowth|
||J|H+|22d8+374 (473)|44|24|44|2|20|2|15|15|NW Size Up, Rend (6d6)|


Rend:
If a highland troll hits an opponent with both claw attacks in the same round, it latches on and tears the flesh, dealing the damage indicated on the table + 1 1/2 x the troll's strength modifier.

Rapid Regrowth:
If a highland troll loses a limb or other appendage, the severed limb grows back in 5d6 minutes.

Improved Grab:
To use this ability, a highland troll must hit with a claw attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

NW Size Up:
At the levels indicated on the table, the highland troll's natural weapons increase in size, dealing damage as though one size larger.

Blinding Regrowth:
If a highland troll loses a limb or other appendage, the severed limb grows back in 1d6 minutes.

Swallow Whole:
As a move action, a highland jotun can make a grapple check to transfer a grappled opponent at least two sizes smaller than itself to its mouth and swallow the opponent whole. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d6+str crushing damage and 3d6 acid damage each from the jotun's stomach as it digests the opponent. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the stomach (AC 20). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A highland jotun's stomach may hold 1 large, 4 medium, 16 small, 64 tiny, or 256 diminutive creatures.

Instant Regrowth:
If a highland jotun loses a limb or other appendage, the severed limb grows back the following round.

[Admiral Squish]

(Reserved for extra space. Pay no attention to this until I tell you otherwise.)
Large Giant
HD:
Speed:
Init:
AC:
BAB/Grapple:
Attack:
Full-Attack:
Space/Reach:
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities:
Saves: Fort + Ref + Will +
Abilities: Str , Dex , Con , Int , Wis , Cha
Skills:
Feats:
Environment:
Organization:
Challenge Rating:
Treasure
Alignment:
Advancement:
Level Adjustment:

Alright, you guys can post now.

[The Tygre]

Looks like it's gonna' be a great project. :smallcool: Are trolls going to be gaining special abilities as they get older, like dragons or Ravenloft undead?

EDIT: Oh, also, you're second image link is broke. Just a heads up.

[Admiral Squish]

Looks like it's gonna' be a great project. :smallcool: Are trolls going to be gaining special abilities as they get older, like dragons or Ravenloft undead?

EDIT: Oh, also, you're second image link is broke. Just a heads up.

Well, they won't be getting magic, but they might get things like pounce and rend as they grow older.

EDIT: Well, I couldn't fix the link to the image, so I just linked to the gallery page. Hopefully fine.

[Chambers]

Huzzah, you used one of the names I suggested! Heh.

This looks cool. I am intrigued by the idea of Age Categories for Trolls. Tell me more, sir.

Testing Link. (http://www.elfwood.com/art/a/n/andersson/Day_of_the_Bond.jpg) Works fine for me. Try this one: http://www.elfwood.com/art/a/n/andersson/Day_of_the_Bond.jpg

[The Tygre]

Huh, weird. I have to re-input into the address bar to get the image. The first time always takes me to Yahoo search.

[Admiral Squish]

Alright, I can't sleep so I did a little work. I filled out the last of the breeds.

As for age categories. I'll be stating everything up at young. Then, I'll be giving long age category lists. Each breed will have it's own list of aging benefits and penalties, including what goodies they get at what point, what size they are... but for simplicity's sake, I was thinking that a troll's 'old' would be basically equivalent to a torog's 'young', and a torog's 'mature' (or maybe 'old') would be the equivalent of a jotun's 'young'. I'd still be making statblocks for a young troll, torog, and jotun.

Also, I was thinking of adding a troll-only PRC dedicated to hunting down trolls that have gone animal. A dangerous and unpleasant job, but I like the idea of an honor-hunter, a warrior who cuts short the lives of those who've lost themselves, before they can ruin their own legacy.

[Tanuki Tales]

Just wanted to say that when I try to open any of the links to elfwood Firefox says there's a connection error and can't reach the site.

[The Mentalist]

I like the looks of this project. Will we get to see the fourth breed of trolls?

Bookmarked and checking regularly.

[Mulletmanalive]

The "males are hideous, females are hot" thing is actually part of the Norwegian version of trolls, circa 1400 [folklore buff, sue me], which makes the WoW orcs seem slightly less silly [only slightly though]...

[Admiral Squish]

Just wanted to say that when I try to open any of the links to elfwood Firefox says there's a connection error and can't reach the site.

I dunno, it seems to work fine for me. Try again?


I like the looks of this project. Will we get to see the fourth breed of trolls?

Bookmarked and checking regularly.

I'll probably end up just putting up a flat statblock for the fourth breed of each race. There's going to be a lot of work involved in creating the rest of the age categories.

Anyone have a name for the fourth breed?

[Mulletmanalive]

Ymir or Gigantes are the only two creatures i can think of from myth that are vaguely humanoid and significantly larger than a great jotun...aside from Kaiju, obviously

[Admiral Squish]

Ymir or Gigantes are the only two creatures i can think of from myth that are vaguely humanoid and significantly larger than a great jotun...aside from Kaiju, obviously

Ymir might work. Gigantes sounds kinda spanish. Kaiju... eh, there's already a couple homebrewed versions of them. Maybe I should call them gigas?

[The Mentalist]

Ymir might work. Gigantes sounds kinda spanish. Kaiju... eh, there's already a couple homebrewed versions of them. Maybe I should call them gigas?

Gigantuns?

[Mulletmanalive]

Gigantes is greek. If you wanted to continue the norse-sounding-bit, you could call them Gigantr...

[Admiral Squish]

We have takeoff, folks. Highland trolls have a statblock. I'm debating if the LA should stay at +1 or it needs to be knocked up to +2.

[Mulletmanalive]

Somewhat random suggestion: have you though of making the creatures of the third age category as the standard and then putting some basic numerical modifiers on the age category table?

For instance, the highland troll might have a -4 on attacks, -8 grapple and half hit points if they were in the youngest age category while a venerable one might be +12, +16, x5 respectively...

Nonstandard but possibly easier and just as effective

[Analytica]

You probably already saw this, but the talented Elfwood artist linked to above commented on one of the troll pictures thus:


Under the watchful eyes of her father a young troll woman is about to complete a traditional quest, to thin out the thick blood of their family with that of a human. If the pure lineage of trolls isn’t broken their kind are doomed to become hideous monster after only a few generations. Hence why trolls like to lure away and kidnap humans in general…

and on another:


A human mother introducing her ogress daughter to her troll father. It’s not going to be a happy reunion. In my imaginary fantasy world trolls need to mix their blood with humans once in a while to prevent their bloodline from becoming degenerated, creating a monstrous inbred offspring. This only works between female trolls and male humans. Female humans and male trolls will create ogres...mostly rejected, abondoned ogres with no family, making them inot angry, hateful and aggresive ogres. This one is just angry on dad.

Looks like great minds think alike. :smallbiggrin:

[Admiral Squish]

You probably already saw this, but the talented Elfwood artist linked to above commented on one of the troll pictures thus:



and on another:



Looks like great minds think alike. :smallbiggrin:

I saw the first one, which actually inspired the whole troll-breeding chart thing. Then, I saw the 'day of the bond' pic and that solidified the idea of the troll age categories. I didn't see the second comment mentioned, actually.

[Admiral Squish]

Somewhat random suggestion: have you though of making the creatures of the third age category as the standard and then putting some basic numerical modifiers on the age category table?

For instance, the highland troll might have a -4 on attacks, -8 grapple and half hit points if they were in the youngest age category while a venerable one might be +12, +16, x5 respectively...

Nonstandard but possibly easier and just as effective

I think my straight addition method is just easier, and it requires significantly less forethought.

Nobody has any comment on the balance of the highland troll? This is sorta my baseline. All the other trolls are gonna be based off this fella.

[Risek]

This is going to be awesome.
Would you make templates too, for those of us who want to add torogs and jotunns to the game without actually instilling to entire system?

[Admiral Squish]

This is going to be awesome.
Would you make templates too, for those of us who want to add torogs and jotunns to the game without actually instilling to entire system?

Well, actually, the Torogs are supposed to be about equivalent to the current trolls. so, you already have torogs. Trolls are being redefined as near-human. I might make a jotunn template eventually, but I'm going to focus on making the whole system mesh before that.

[InfiniteNothing]

The highland trolls look fine, though you might be able to push it to Regeneration 2 and still keep it at LA+1. At least, that's my estimate. You may want to keep it at 1 to be safe.

[Admiral Squish]

Okay, the initial table for homegrown trolls is up for the highlanders. I need to think up some special abilities that scale beyond the Torog Level. How is the scaling? I'm worried I may have gone too slow the NA. Am I missing any columns I will need to add?

Also, tables are a lot more confusing then I previously understood.

It just occurred to me I need to add in HD. Now, this is the thorny bit. I think the trolls are (vaguely) playable with just the LA. But if I throw in HD, nobody will play ANYTHING but the young trolls. But the older/tougher trolls NEED HD to be used as monsters, or players will be one-shotting them left and right. A jotun should NEVER be considered a glass cannon.

[InfiniteNothing]

No clue how to help you with special abilities, but why not just give joten Barbarian levels? It's not like that class requires intense study. Or maybe have only the torogs and joten have HD while the trolls have class levels?

The NA looks good, but wait for another person's judgement as well. I'm not the best at judging stuff like that.

[Temotei]

A highland troll would make an interesting cleric. :smallamused:

[radmelon]

This looks awesome. Trolls need more love.
If you're really worried about it being OP, lower the regen to 0, basically making it so that all damage but fire, ice, and acid is nonlethel.

[Admiral Squish]

No clue how to help you with special abilities, but why not just give joten Barbarian levels? It's not like that class requires intense study. Or maybe have only the torogs and joten have HD while the trolls have class levels?

The NA looks good, but wait for another person's judgement as well. I'm not the best at judging stuff like that.

That might work. I could give the Jotuns, specifically, an HD progression. Barbarian levels could certainly work, though that might be rather powerful.


A highland troll would make an interesting cleric. :smallamused:

It certainly would. A highland troll war cleric would be pretty epic. the lack of a wis penalty would make sense, though, since even wolves have wis 12.


This looks awesome. Trolls need more love.
If you're really worried about it being OP, lower the regen to 0, basically making it so that all damage but fire, ice, and acid is nonlethel.

Well, the problem is I ALWAYS think I'm overdoing it, but I never know exactly.

[Admiral Squish]

I can't say I'm having much luck in finding legends about Jotunns beyond the broad strokes, which is unpleasant. I did however, realize I could fill up the special column with things like improved rend damage, weapon size ups, removing regeneration vulnerabilities, improving limb regrowth speed, and other such minor but mentionable things. Still, I would like to see some more unique abilities becoming involved.

Also, still puzzling how I'm going to handle the HD/class level thing. I was going to make a highland torog statblock, but I realized that without HD, it was going to be really awkward. Maybe NPC-only RHD? The ability for PC trolls to swap RHD for barbarian levels?

[The Mentalist]

I'm working on some regeneration feats that you may be able to use as unique abilities. I'll polish a few of them up for you if you'd like.

I have some regeneration equipment too, stuff like implantable weapons and armor.

[radmelon]

I was looking at the arge catagory tables, and I must ask what it means by "Combat Age" and "Natural Age"?

[Admiral Squish]

I'm working on some regeneration feats that you may be able to use as unique abilities. I'll polish a few of them up for you if you'd like.

I have some regeneration equipment too, stuff like implantable weapons and armor.

That would be awesome!

Implantable weapons, huh? I had an idea that was sorta the inverse once. Genetically engineered trolls that grew bony weapons and armor from their bodies. Basically, living machines that turned food directly into weapons.


I was looking at the arge catagory tables, and I must ask what it means by "Combat Age" and "Natural Age"?

Combat slows the aging of a troll. A troll that is, say, locked in prison, or paralyzed, or living in a human society that's strict on fighting, or otherwise unable to fight for any reason ages much faster than a troll that can fight. Sometimes, trolls trapped for extended periods of time can claw at themselves to slow the advancement. combat age is the age that a fighting troll would be when he's in that age category. A troll that didn't fight as he grew up would be aging much faster. Perhaps I should just simplify it, and say a non-fighting troll ages twice as fast.

[radmelon]

Oh, okay that makes more sense. You may want to put a paragraph that explains that next to the table.

[Seerow]

Combat slows the aging of a troll. A troll that is, say, locked in prison, or paralyzed, or living in a human society that's strict on fighting, or otherwise unable to fight for any reason ages much faster than a troll that can fight. Sometimes, trolls trapped for extended periods of time can claw at themselves to slow the advancement. combat age is the age that a fighting troll would be when he's in that age category. A troll that didn't fight as he grew up would be aging much faster. Perhaps I should just simplify it, and say a non-fighting troll ages twice as fast.

Is it my imagination or would this have the side effect of making a troll who hides out and refrains from fighting gain strength/power much faster than a troll who spends his whole life fighting, since you are making age categories a determinant of power?

While fighting more = living longer is a cool concept, I don't think it works in a situation like this where simply going through life gives you more power.

For example, a 350 year old troll who has never picked up a sword or fought a day in his life will beat the snot out of a 350 year old combat troll whom has been fighting constantly day in and out for his entire life. That doesn't seem right to me.

[Admiral Squish]

Is it my imagination or would this have the side effect of making a troll who hides out and refrains from fighting gain strength/power much faster than a troll who spends his whole life fighting, since you are making age categories a determinant of power?

While fighting more = living longer is a cool concept, I don't think it works in a situation like this where simply going through life gives you more power.

For example, a 350 year old troll who has never picked up a sword or fought a day in his life will beat the snot out of a 350 year old combat troll whom has been fighting constantly day in and out for his entire life. That doesn't seem right to me.

Well, in raw strength, yes, but the troll who fights every day is more likely to have class levels, and he's smarter as well. Most trolls view advanced ages as a shameful/suspicious thing. They're merely a step away from animals at that age.

Also, my trolls don't have a maximum age. Every 1000 years beyond Jotunnar counts as one more age category following the chart. I just need to figure out how to note that.

[Seerow]

Well, in raw strength, yes, but the troll who fights every day is more likely to have class levels, and he's smarter as well. Most trolls view advanced ages as a shameful/suspicious thing. They're merely a step away from animals at that age.

Also, my trolls don't have a maximum age. Every 1000 years beyond Jotunnar counts as one more age category following the chart. I just need to figure out how to note that.

Honestly that just makes it worse. If they live forever until they actually die in combat, why wouldn't they just wait 301 years, until they achieve the maximum category, then start taking up fighting? This way they gain the maximum power without achieving what most trolls would consider an advanced age.

Honestly, I'd consider completely reversing it, given the knowledge that trolls essentially live forever. Combat trolls advance more quickly, becoming bigger, stronger, faster, and gaining access to their abilities at a younger age than their counterparts who don't spend any effort on combat, and thus have a stunted growth rate.

[Admiral Squish]

Honestly that just makes it worse. If they live forever until they actually die in combat, why wouldn't they just wait 301 years, until they achieve the maximum category, then start taking up fighting? This way they gain the maximum power without achieving what most trolls would consider an advanced age.

Honestly, I'd consider completely reversing it, given the knowledge that trolls essentially live forever. Combat trolls advance more quickly, becoming bigger, stronger, faster, and gaining access to their abilities at a younger age than their counterparts who don't spend any effort on combat, and thus have a stunted growth rate.

You don't seem to be getting this part: The fighting is not the goal. The trolls don't fight because they like fighting or because they want to conquer things. They fight because the more they fight, the slower they descend into animalism. Old trolls are a liability, because everyone knows it's just a couple more years until grandpa completely loses what little grasp on reality he still has and becomes a bloodthirsty monster, a giant, hungry id. The fighting is more like an elaborate game. The trolls have ways to cancel out regeneration and they know what won't grow back, but there's a universal agreement that in a battle between trolls, these methods aren't to be used. A troll who uses fire magic or coats a weapon in trollbane is likely to get exiled for that kinda behavior.

[InfiniteNothing]

I just noticed something. You're missing Wisdom on the aging statistics table.

[Admiral Squish]

I just noticed something. You're missing Wisdom on the aging statistics table.
A valid observation. I thought it might be a useless column since they were just going to have 10 wisdom all through, though I might actually make wis go up as they age. A lot of legends refer to jotunns as incredibly wise thanks to their infinite age.

[The Mentalist]

Implantable weapons, huh? I had an idea that was sorta the inverse once. Genetically engineered trolls that grew bony weapons and armor from their bodies. Basically, living machines that turned food directly into weapon


I did some feats for that too.


Living Cast-offs
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration
You may cut chunks of flesh away from your body, you may have 1 of these per HD and they each have the stats of zombies two sizes smaller than you with 1/4 of your HD these last one minute per HD

Rivers of Blood
Pre-reqs: Regeneration
You may deal five slashing or piercing damage to yourself and spill enough blood to cover a square with blood. This replicates a Grease spell over the square. You may deal additional damage to cover more squares, these squares must be within your reach. This effect lasts 1 minute.

Spikes of Bone
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration
You deal 1d6 per 4HD +str mod in a grapple

Dislocator Bite
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration
You dislocate your jaw and then close it as it heals ripping huge chunks of flesh out of your enemies. You gain a bite attack or your existing bite attacks deal damage as though they were a size category bigger.

Death Spasms
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration, Detach
As Detach except the removed limb attacks for 1 round per HD

Healing Blood
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration
You may grant one creature Fast Heal equal to your regeneration (round down) once per HD per day for 1 round per HD


What I have so far. I'm still working on this idea.

[Admiral Squish]

Living Cast-offs
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration
You may cut chunks of flesh away from your body, you may have 1 of these per HD and they each have the stats of zombies two sizes smaller than you with 1/4 of your HD these last one minute per HD

This looks interesting, though I'm unsure how it works. Sorta mini-copies of you ala starfish regeneration? The thing is, we'll need more stats than 1/4 your HD and two sizes smaller. Are they effectively mini-yous with ability scores, natural weapons, and such? You'd need to do a significant chunk of damage to yourself in order to do something like this, though. Overall, a cool ability, but it needs work and it seems like something too... thoughtful for a primal giant to do. I think this could certainly be useful to a troll or torog as a feat, though.


Rivers of Blood
Pre-reqs: Regeneration
You may deal five slashing or piercing damage to yourself and spill enough blood to cover a square with blood. This replicates a Grease spell over the square. You may deal additional damage to cover more squares, these squares must be within your reach. This effect lasts 1 minute.

This seems pretty cool. Again, though, too thinky for a primal giant.


Spikes of Bone
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration
You deal 1d6 per 4HD +str mod in a grapple

I was going to give something like this to cave trolls and possibly crystal trolls.


Dislocator Bite
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration
You dislocate your jaw and then close it as it heals ripping huge chunks of flesh out of your enemies. You gain a bite attack or your existing bite attacks deal damage as though they were a size category bigger.

This seems quite cool, but again, too thinky. Though, maybe swallow whole wouldn't be out of line for some of the bigger categories.


Death Spasms
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration, Detach
As Detach except the removed limb attacks for 1 round per HD

Also cool. Few things to address, though. Does the limb, like, follow them? does the limb count as a separate creature during this time? Does it function more like a dancing weapon placed at the thrown square? This might work, but it's pushin' it.


Healing Blood
Pre-Reqs: Regeneration
You may grant one creature Fast Heal equal to your regeneration (round down) once per HD per day for 1 round per HD

This also seems awesome, but too thinky for Jotuns. Your wording is a little odd, though, I think it should be fewer uses/day, for one. Maybe more like 'Usable once per day for every (3? 4?) HD you possess, and lasts for one round per HD.' I could definitely see a troll cleric taking this feat, though.

[The Mentalist]

These are pretty rough but your changes make sense.

As for the Cast-off one I was thinking Zombie stats could work although for these creatures maybe for everyone but trolls they cast off as the lower level troll with a lower age category.

[Admiral Squish]

These are pretty rough but your changes make sense.

As for the Cast-off one I was thinking Zombie stats could work although for these creatures maybe for everyone but trolls they cast off as the lower level troll with a lower age category.

What KIND of zombie is the question I'm asking. Is it a shrunken, zombified version of you? Is if a human zombie? Does it use your stats? Does it have your special abilities? Does it have a completely different set of abilities and stats?

[Admiral Squish]

Ugh, remind me to NEVER edit a table. I have to make sure I have everything down before I even go into it. Took like six edits to fix the thing properly.

Anyways, I present the full highland troll table, now with a wis column and special abilities that fill out all the way through the age categories. I still need to figure out what I'm going to do about this bloody HD issue. I'm thinking I'm just going to have to give an HD line and specify the line is for monster use only, Most NPCs or PCs should have class levels instead.

[The Mentalist]

What KIND of zombie is the question I'm asking. Is it a shrunken, zombified version of you? Is if a human zombie? Does it use your stats? Does it have your special abilities? Does it have a completely different set of abilities and stats?

Sorry, I forgot that size based zombies went out the window. I'd say you zombified would work. Stat as required once a level.

[Admiral Squish]

Sorry, I forgot that size based zombies went out the window. I'd say you zombified would work. Stat as required once a level.

That sounds good. I'd probably give it a str penalty and dex bonus at the same.

[Admiral Squish]

Alright! I edited in an HD line for the highland trolls. Is it too slow a progression? Too fast?

I've run into two questions, though. Do I add things entries for things like BaB, saves, speed, complete AC, and CR? If I do, it would mean a big chunk of work for me, including the prospect of me having to actually double-up my tables to fit all the information. But it would make trolls of different ages easier to access and would save anyone trying to use this a lot of calculating.

[Admiral Squish]

We have a stat-block up for highland torogs. I'm going to make two more stat blocks, one for young jotun, and then one for the legendary fourth breed, which will really just be a jotunnar Jotun. I'd put them up now, but I've gotta go put up Christmas decorations at grandma's soon and I know I wouldn't be done before I have to leave. :smallannoyed:

So, I've been thinking about troll society. I kinda want to use scottish fluff for the highland trolls, but the basics remain the same. Trolls fight one another as more of a friendly game or competition than actual war. Trolls have developed a number of methods to circumvent regeneration to aid in the execution or the hunting of those trolls who've lost themselves to animalism (Which needs its own trollish word, I think. Like bloodfury or something. I'll look something up in german, which generally sounds like a very good approximation of giant.) These methods are STRICTLY forbidden for use on trolls that aren't lost. Same with using fire magic. Trolls take true death VERY seriously, because there are almost no accidental fatalities in troll society.

[RationalGoblin]

Ooooh, I REALLY like this take on trolls. Great job, Admiral Squish! I may have to steal your trolls for a campaign! :smallbiggrin:

[Admiral Squish]

Glad you like it! Added a stat block for Highland Jotun. I'm gonna throw together a block for Highland Ymir real quick, then start on Mountain Trolls.

[Admiral Squish]

Mrr... Mountain trolls are being troublesome. The mountain troll in MM III is closer to what I was intending to be jotun power levels, but the stated goal was for MM trolls to be Torog level and having jotun be bigger and nastier still. Plus, I was intending to start off the mountain trolls with half-ogre stats, then have them end at colossal size. And to top it off, mountain trolls don't even have regen, they have fast healing. They're just about as awkward as could be possible.

[Admiral Squish]

Alright, I'm going to be official about it, screw the published mountain troll, these guys will start at half-ogre and from there on, they shall dance to my whims! Dance, I say!

Anyway, I'm working on mountain stats. I was also wondering what the public's opinion on fluff would be. That is, should I include the social fluff at all? I could leave it up to you all to fit them into your collective settings, which would mean less writing for me, but adding the fluff in would make them easier to acess for the common DM.

Also, somebody else please post SOMETHING. I'm starting to think I'm talking to myself.

[InfiniteNothing]

I think we're all waiting for you to put something new up. At least, I know I am.

[RationalGoblin]

I think we're all waiting for you to put something new up. At least, I know I am.

Same here; I would comment more, but I'm waiting until you get something new.

Still, while I'm here, I might as well praise your work. In particular, I really like the idea of eternal battle being a way to avoid madness, and the "engine of destruction" feel of the Jotunns.

[The Mentalist]

To add to the herd, was waiting to see new content to post.

Onto my actual ideas.

1. I think that a little fluff could be good. Little more than tribes are organized like this and so on.
1a. You don't have to do this fluff yourself, you have a small tribe of loyal followers who will take one or two of the trolls and fluff them. I have a few ideas for war trolls I would love to run by you.
1b. You would have creative control, just a team of staff writers to pump out the word count.

2. I don't think that anyone will be too upset if you use a different chassis for the base of these guys, I can't recognize what you've done to them.

3. A bit of science-y fluff for why they become more animalistic could have to do with the R-complex of the brain growing faster because of the regeneration and pushing out the higher functions.

[Admiral Squish]

I think we're all waiting for you to put something new up. At least, I know I am.

Ask and ye shall receive! Mountain trolls are posted. I based the stats on half-ogres. I'm not sure if it still counts as +2 LA, though...


Same here; I would comment more, but I'm waiting until you get something new.

Still, while I'm here, I might as well praise your work. In particular, I really like the idea of eternal battle being a way to avoid madness, and the "engine of destruction" feel of the Jotunns.

See? this is what I look for. I am fueled by praise and reviews.


To add to the herd, was waiting to see new content to post.

Onto my actual ideas.

1. I think that a little fluff could be good. Little more than tribes are organized like this and so on.
1a. You don't have to do this fluff yourself, you have a small tribe of loyal followers who will take one or two of the trolls and fluff them. I have a few ideas for war trolls I would love to run by you.
1b. You would have creative control, just a team of staff writers to pump out the word count.

2. I don't think that anyone will be too upset if you use a different chassis for the base of these guys, I can't recognize what you've done to them.

3. A bit of science-y fluff for why they become more animalistic could have to do with the R-complex of the brain growing faster because of the regeneration and pushing out the higher functions.

1) Yeah, I basically have the fluff in my head, but I haven't really taken the time to lay it all down on paper. Or, on the internet.
1a)this is true, I suppose. I might just take that suggestion. Give out some of the basic fluffy bits and let y'all do the literary heavy lifting.
1b)also nice.

2) Yeah, I'm going to borrow from it, but the mountain troll as published is basically out of the mix at this point.

3) Mmm, that's basically the theme I was going for, though I was less eloquent in the explanation.

[The Mentalist]

Some ideas for War Trolls:

War Troll society: There are no war troll tribes or families, there are regiments and battalions. War Trolls are closer to their squad mates than most races are to their families, suffering permanent damaged and even death to protect them. This has cost them sometimes as threatening a squadron of trolls with death is enough to press gang an entire regiment into service. Those who do this should beware though, the trolls don't take threats lightly and will seek revenge for services so attained.

Criminality: War Trolls have only two punishments; Restriction and Bestiality, restriction is prohibition from mind sustaining combat, causing them to age more quickly and Bestiality, reserved only for the highest crimes is the intentional destruction of a troll's higher mind. Making him fit only for the Weapons Caste. There is no death penalty, it is seen as a waste of a good troll.

Rank: All trolls of the military caste are equal, with obvious ranking exceptions. Rank is only used in combat, real or staged. The Weapons Castes is different, they are criminal or thick blooded trolls who have no rational minds left. They are kept fed and contained, occasionally released during raids. There are rumors of a large division in the mountains who keeps a Ymir chained to the root of the mountain, a final line of defense should all go badly.

Weapons: Trolls in personal combat tend not to use large, hulking weapons, but lighter ones, ones they can control. Combat is their sport, it's no fun if there's no skill involved, masters of complicated chain weapons can be icons of the regiments. They tend to go lightly armored but do their best to protect themselves from anything that can cause true death. (Flame retardant fabrics, insulation, and so on)

The Fight!: All Trolls fight, war trolls get two regiments together and wage mock wars and campaigns, these can be a quick skirmish or a five year conflict where neighboring towns are ransacked and used as a defensive position. Individual combat is for training and personal grudges, not sport.

[Admiral Squish]

Some ideas for War Trolls:

War Troll society: There are no war troll tribes or families, there are regiments and battalions. War Trolls are closer to their squad mates than most races are to their families, suffering permanent damaged and even death to protect them. This has cost them sometimes as threatening a squadron of trolls with death is enough to press gang an entire regiment into service. Those who do this should beware though, the trolls don't take threats lightly and will seek revenge for services so attained.

Criminality: War Trolls have only two punishments; Restriction and Bestiality, restriction is prohibition from mind sustaining combat, causing them to age more quickly and Bestiality, reserved only for the highest crimes is the intentional destruction of a troll's higher mind. Making him fit only for the Weapons Caste. There is no death penalty, it is seen as a waste of a good troll.

Rank: All trolls of the military caste are equal, with obvious ranking exceptions. Rank is only used in combat, real or staged. The Weapons Castes is different, they are criminal or thick blooded trolls who have no rational minds left. They are kept fed and contained, occasionally released during raids. There are rumors of a large division in the mountains who keeps a Ymir chained to the root of the mountain, a final line of defense should all go badly.

Weapons: Trolls in personal combat tend not to use large, hulking weapons, but lighter ones, ones they can control. Combat is their sport, it's no fun if there's no skill involved, masters of complicated chain weapons can be icons of the regiments. They tend to go lightly armored but do their best to protect themselves from anything that can cause true death. (Flame retardant fabrics, insulation, and so on)

The Fight!: All Trolls fight, war trolls get two regiments together and wage mock wars and campaigns, these can be a quick skirmish or a five year conflict where neighboring towns are ransacked and used as a defensive position. Individual combat is for training and personal grudges, not sport.

Oooh, I like. Only a few things pop up looking over this. (Sorry for the delay in the review, I find when I first go over things that are awesome I'm overwhelmed by the awesome and unable to give them a fair shake)

Firstly, there would have to be cities at the very least, since an army can't function without food, weapons, armor, and other supplies. I sort picture it as a roman theme to a spartan society. The males are all raised to be warriors, while the females are trained in other tasks that would help the army function. Everything is for the benefit of the military. I do like the idea of the extremely close bonds between members of battalions and units.

As for criminality, I think that restriction should carry some more real-world associations. In my experience, you never just get 'restriction' you get 'restriction and extra duty'. Basically, now, you don't get any of your usual free time and spend about a month doing the worst jobs they can think of. For war trolls, this would mean a troll on restriction would not only be restricted from battle, but would also be taking care of the grunt jobs that nobody wants to do. A double whammy of getting more and more irritable and itching for battle while being forced to do the most unpleasant tasks imaginable. As for bestiality, I think that term would draw a few too many giggles at the average gaming tables. Why not just use animalism? Or, we could make up a word for it. Maybe a german term of some sort? German sounds like a pretty good approximation of what giant would probably sound like.

I think the caste system should be of three or four tiers. The lowest caste would be the Weapons caste, made up of the thick-blooded, and the criminals. Above them, we have the working class, the farmers, smiths, and other non-warrior jobs. This caste would be mostly female, or those who failed to make it into the warriors. Then we have the old. These are those considered too old to continue working or fighting, but still respected for their life's service. Once they get too old to think, they enter the weapons caste. And finally, at the top of the pyramid, we have the warriors. The proud and fierce, the warrior caste was raised into the life of constant battle as soon as they could walk.

I think the weapons thing would be interesting. I think that the trolls would probably have two different sets of equipment. They would go into battle with the most efficient weapons possible, as a uniform unit. Something to capitalize on their strength, probably greatswords or guisarmes. But when it comes down to personal combat, sport combat, or small unit combat, they would switch to lighter, more 'refined' weapons. I could see Kusari-Gamas, spiked chains, and whip-equivalents being very popular.

I think the large-scale mock wars would be a very common thing in times of peace, or when stationed at a particular place for a length of time. However, I think that personal combat would be encouraged once camps were set up, and would likely be extremely prevalent. I could totally see a circle being set up each night near the fire pit. The trolls gather around and warriors would step into the circle, and spar until one goes down, either by knock-out or pin. Then either the fallen troll or both trolls would leave the ring and new challengers would step in.

Also, if we do go with a caste system, I could see this having an effect on the stats of the troll. Weapons caste would have power attack, Warrior caste would have EWP, and the worker class would have something less fun, like skill focus or maybe craft as a permanent class skill.

[The Mentalist]

Oooh, I like. Only a few things pop up looking over this. (Sorry for the delay in the review, I find when I first go over things that are awesome I'm overwhelmed by the awesome and unable to give them a fair shake)

Thank you, I too feed off praise and review

Firstly, there would have to be cities at the very least, since an army can't function without food, weapons, armor, and other supplies. I sort picture it as a roman theme to a spartan society. The males are all raised to be warriors, while the females are trained in other tasks that would help the army function. Everything is for the benefit of the military. I do like the idea of the extremely close bonds between members of battalions and units.

I wouldn't gender base it, but perhaps those who show less aptitude for combat are kept at home for "desk jobs" still military and still held to that standard of training, just not taken into the field.

As for criminality, I think that restriction should carry some more real-world associations. In my experience, you never just get 'restriction' you get 'restriction and extra duty'. Basically, now, you don't get any of your usual free time and spend about a month doing the worst jobs they can think of. For war trolls, this would mean a troll on restriction would not only be restricted from battle, but would also be taking care of the grunt jobs that nobody wants to do. A double whammy of getting more and more irritable and itching for battle while being forced to do the most unpleasant tasks imaginable.

Agreed. I was just tossing this off my head, the extra duty would be good. Maybe a sort of "You are everyone's servant to do the jobs they despise." to be used at the whim of the unit.

As for bestiality, I think that term would draw a few too many giggles at the average gaming tables. Why not just use animalism? Or, we could make up a word for it. Maybe a german term of some sort? German sounds like a pretty good approximation of what giant would probably sound like.

Again, just getting the idea down, terms can be changed around.

I think the caste system should be of three or four tiers. The lowest caste would be the Weapons caste, made up of the thick-blooded, and the criminals. Above them, we have the working class, the farmers, smiths, and other non-warrior jobs. This caste would be mostly female, or those who failed to make it into the warriors. Then we have the old. These are those considered too old to continue working or fighting, but still respected for their life's service. Once they get too old to think, they enter the weapons caste. And finally, at the top of the pyramid, we have the warriors. The proud and fierce, the warrior caste was raised into the life of constant battle as soon as they could walk.

This could work, I'm thinking that the working class should be what we'd call reservists though, everyone here trains, everyone fights if the need is great enough.

I think the weapons thing would be interesting. I think that the trolls would probably have two different sets of equipment. They would go into battle with the most efficient weapons possible, as a uniform unit. Something to capitalize on their strength, probably greatswords or guisarmes. But when it comes down to personal combat, sport combat, or small unit combat, they would switch to lighter, more 'refined' weapons. I could see Kusari-Gamas, spiked chains, and whip-equivalents being very popular.

I like this, the amount of weapons you're trained with could be a badge of honor

I think the large-scale mock wars would be a very common thing in times of peace, or when stationed at a particular place for a length of time. However, I think that personal combat would be encouraged once camps were set up, and would likely be extremely prevalent. I could totally see a circle being set up each night near the fire pit. The trolls gather around and warriors would step into the circle, and spar until one goes down, either by knock-out or pin. Then either the fallen troll or both trolls would leave the ring and new challengers would step in.

Yeah, the no personal combat was a little dumb. This works I think. I think I was basically saying that people do individual fighting but for these guys the big draw is the tactical combat.

Also, if we do go with a caste system, I could see this having an effect on the stats of the troll. Weapons caste would have power attack, Warrior caste would have EWP, and the worker class would have something less fun, like skill focus or maybe craft as a permanent class skill.


How about a weapon focus and a skill focus?

Based off some of this I may work some mechanics for these guys. Stuff like:

Weakened Regeneration [Trait]
This troll regenerates more slowly and was declared unfit for combat
The creature only regenerates once per minute
The creature gains a +2 to all Craft and Profession checks

[Admiral Squish]

Based off some of this I may work some mechanics for these guys. Stuff like:

Weakened Regeneration [Trait]
This troll regenerates more slowly and was declared unfit for combat
The creature only regenerates once per minute
The creature gains a +2 to all Craft and Profession checks

Once per minute seems a tad harsh. Maybe every other round, or just 1/2 the regeneration?

As to your in-post responses:

Well, gender basing has a lot of precedent in the real world, plus, it guarantees a level of stability. If everyone passes the tests one year, then there would be no new workers. Plus, making it gender biased opens up the door for PCs to play a troll version of Mulan. Or a dissatisfied housewife fleeing the repressed society. Though, realistically, the war trolls would likely bring breeding females with them when they go on raids, to help keep the blood thin. Logistically, it would be preferable for a female troll to get pregnant than a male to get a human female pregnant. If the males impregnate female humans, they would have to be brought back to the city and held there. They would have to feed and shelter the kidnapped, as well as somehow preventing a horde of angry fathers from retaliating. However, if a female troll gets pregnant, she wouldn't require much more food than usual, no extra shelter, and it would cause little to no fuss with the neighbors. There may even be volunteers. So, all in all, it makes more sense for the males to be the warriors with the females and failures staying in the city to work. There might be a few female warriors, those that are unable to get pregnant, or those who are just THAT impressive in battle.

Well, it's more structured than that these days, but it would make sense in a medieval army. When I was restricted, they made us wear these bright orange vests to play up the humiliation factor. Maybe we should include something similar here?

Translating some german words comes up with some positive results.
Cripple Mind - Krupplegeist
Predator - Raubtier
Animal - kreatürlich
monster - Ungetum
Insane - Wahnsinnig/Verruckt
Kill Mind - Mordengeist

True. I would expect a sparta-like state to train EVERYONE to fight. Indeed, since combat slows the aging, it would make sense for everyone from the lowest levels on up to fight. Perhaps a sort of open coliseum where there's a nightly battle royale, or something more structured, like a more orderly version of the campfire battles seen in the military. I think nightly tactical battles would be a bit much, though.

This would make a lot of sense. Actually, due to the constant training and rigid lifestyle, I'm pretty sure every single war troll would likely have at least one level of fighter. So, everyone's got martial weapons, then however many exotic weapons they spend the feats on. The more exotic and unusual the weapon, the better, according to war trolls.

Do you mean, the warriors get weapon focus and the commoners get skill focus, or do you mean the commoners get both weapon and skill focus?

[The Mentalist]

Once per minute seems a tad harsh. Maybe every other round, or just 1/2 the regeneration

That could work, or we do it in stages. Like three or four levels of weakened regen that give more benefits.

As to your in-post responses:
Females stuff

That makes sense

Well, it's more structured than that these days, but it would make sense in a medieval army. When I was restricted, they made us wear these bright orange vests to play up the humiliation factor. Maybe we should include something similar here?

I know it's more structured than that, no point, just saying.

Maybe something that they implanted for the humiliation factor. We could bounce ideas back and forth as to what exactly the humiliation is, possibly varying from regiment to regiment.


Ungetum

I personally think that this is the most troll-like option, the rest really reek of german.

True. I would expect a sparta-like state to train EVERYONE to fight. Indeed, since combat slows the aging, it would make sense for everyone from the lowest levels on up to fight. Perhaps a sort of open coliseum where there's a nightly battle royale, or something more structured, like a more orderly version of the campfire battles seen in the military. I think nightly tactical battles would be a bit much, though.

This could work

This would make a lot of sense. Actually, due to the constant training and rigid lifestyle, I'm pretty sure every single war troll would likely have at least one level of fighter. So, everyone's got martial weapons, then however many exotic weapons they spend the feats on. The more exotic and unusual the weapon, the better, according to war trolls.

Exactly, and well decorated or exotically made weapons could be badges of honor. A dagger with a carved dragonbone blade is prestigious. Troll weaponsmiths are as respected as warriors.

Do you mean, the warriors get weapon focus and the commoners get skill focus, or do you mean the commoners get both weapon and skill focus?

The former


For the regen thing how about

Every other round is the +2

Once a minute is +5

Becomes fast heal is +10 (these are the legendary craftsmen)

and none at all is +10 and doesn't lose their mind

[Admiral Squish]

For the regen thing how about

Every other round is the +2

Once a minute is +5

Becomes fast heal is +10 (these are the legendary craftsmen)

and none at all is +10 and doesn't lose their mind

Hmm, I dunno about that much. If it's flavored as your regeneration not being strong enough for battle, that doesn't really imply that you're proportionally stronger as a craftsman. Granted, the increased training would HELP, but not +10 kinda help. I'd just say settle in at the 1/2 regen and +2 would be about as far as I'd take it.

Of females, of course it's rough territory, but it allows for some interesting RP. I don't want it to be REALLY focused on the sexism, but there's definitely a gender line there.

Hmm, yeah, that would make sense. We could just put in a line about how they mark those on restriction somehow and let the players make it up.

I often use RL languages to signify fantasy ones. Dwarves speaking chinese, giants using german, french elves... some just lend themselves nicely.

The tournament setup would take longer, but I think it fits the more logical, honorable theme for the trolls.

Now, see, I think that the weapon itself would be the important thing. The quality and enchantment would be important, but not as important as the weapon itself. A dagger would be simple. But what would REALLY get respect is a pair of hook swords, or a dagger-whip, or something really exotic along those lines.

Weapon focus kinda sucks, honestly. EWP would perfectly fit the flavor.

[The Mentalist]

Hmm, I dunno about that much. If it's flavored as your regeneration not being strong enough for battle, that doesn't really imply that you're proportionally stronger as a craftsman. Granted, the increased training would HELP, but not +10 kinda help. I'd just say settle in at the 1/2 regen and +2 would be about as far as I'd take it.

Yeah, that was kind of dumb.


Of females, of course it's rough territory, but it allows for some interesting RP. I don't want it to be REALLY focused on the sexism, but there's definitely a gender line there.

Seems to work. I was just a little iffy on it, touched on my moral meter.


Hmm, yeah, that would make sense. We could just put in a line about how they mark those on restriction somehow and let the players make it up.

I might throw a few examples up if I think of any, dying skins might be a good one.


I often use RL languages to signify fantasy ones. Dwarves speaking chinese, giants using german, french elves... some just lend themselves nicely.

If you like the idea go ahead. I personally like roots of a language or for something to sound like X but not really be that language. But whatever seems good.



Now, see, I think that the weapon itself would be the important thing. The quality and enchantment would be important, but not as important as the weapon itself. A dagger would be simple. But what would REALLY get respect is a pair of hook swords, or a dagger-whip, or something really exotic along those lines.

I was thinking both. A fancy dagger might equal a plain set of hook swords but a fancy set of hook swords is incredible. The type of weapon and how you use it is important, this is sort of like how some gun nuts get excited about big hand gun.



Weapon focus kinda sucks, honestly. EWP would perfectly fit the flavor.

I agree now that I've been thinking about it. Especially with the exotic weapon = status thing we're going for.

[Admiral Squish]

Yeah, that was kind of dumb.

Happens to the best of us.

Seems to work. I was just a little iffy on it, touched on my moral meter.

If it hadn't, I would be more concerned.

I might throw a few examples up if I think of any, dying skins might be a good one.

that might work.

If you like the idea go ahead. I personally like roots of a language or for something to sound like X but not really be that language. But whatever seems good.

Well, I could go with Ungetum. Though I'm not sure how to make it into a word that sounds mole like a procedure.

I was thinking both. A fancy dagger might equal a plain set of hook swords but a fancy set of hook swords is incredible. The type of weapon and how you use it is important, this is sort of like how some gun nuts get excited about big hand gun.

This makes sense. Let's go with that.

I agree now that I've been thinking about it. Especially with the exotic weapon = status thing we're going for.

Logic!

Alright, I like what we've got so far. Let's roll it all together into a racial entry like the ones from the PHB. A paragraph of overview, then personality, physical description, relations, alignment, lands, religion, language, names, and adventurers. Maybe some extra entries for any information that doesn't fit in those.

[The Mentalist]

One topic we didn't touch on was religion, I'd assume war gods but I was also thinking gods of healing, praying to avoid "true death" or gods of intellect in hopes that their minds will be preserved.

[Admiral Squish]

One topic we didn't touch on was religion, I'd assume war gods but I was also thinking gods of healing, praying to avoid "true death" or gods of intellect in hopes that their minds will be preserved.

Oooh, I didn't think religion. Definitely war gods. I don't know of any gods specifically focused on intellect or healing. Maybe they'd get their own roman-esque pantheon? A state-sponsored religion with a strongly lawful bent.

[Cieyrin]

Got into this late but I like what I see with changing up trolls into more of a warrior race, than a savage, bestial one. The Mountain troll description has a copypasta error from Highland troll but it looks fairly well put together. I do wonder about the cold vulnerability on the Mountain trolls, though, as that seems like a fairly prevalent energy in their environs.

As for a deity, Llerg from Greyhawk seems the most likely candidate, matching up on alignment and troll philosophy, specifically: "Be as fierce as you can or the world will overwhelm you." Konkresh, detailed in Complete Warrior, is also a likely candidate and Lyris or Halmyr, also CW, could be the patron deity of the War Trolls, depending on how far they swing towards organization and strategy.

[Admiral Squish]

Ah, curses. I didn't notice. I shall go fix it. On the energy vulnerability, you do have a point. I think I shall remove the cold vulnerability.

On the suggested gods, I do like them. Perhaps the three form CW could serve as a triad of lead gods, with a few other, more minor gods for other aspects of their life. War trolls would place Halmyr in the leading position. Cave trolls would probably put Kronkresh as their primary god. Crystal trolls would revere Lyris above the others. I'm having trouble digging up info on Llerg, tho.

Also, I AM working on mountain trolls. I'm just having some technical difficulties determining how to scale their abilities. I want a mountain Ymir to be Colossal-sized, but that means they need to be going up a half a size every other category and that tells me they're going to need a lot of HD and truly massive strength. So, really, it's just figuring out the exact RATE I want them to scale by, then filling in the blanks.

[Cieyrin]

Best sources for Llerg that I can find off-hand are in Complete Divine and also from Living Greyhawk's Deity document: http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LG_Deities.zip. LG's Deity document is my usual go-to for finding appropriate gods for any character I play, if a setting is otherwise generic. There's probably some info also in the Greyhawk Gazeteer but that's hard to find these days.

As for size difficulties, is there a particular reason mountain critters really need to be huge? Yeah, the mountains are big but space is also kinda at a premium, making me think big things would be better suited for plains and oceans, hence why we have Elephants and Whales where they are.

[Admiral Squish]

Best sources for Llerg that I can find off-hand are in Complete Divine and also from Living Greyhawk's Deity document: http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LG_Deities.zip. LG's Deity document is my usual go-to for finding appropriate gods for any character I play, if a setting is otherwise generic. There's probably some info also in the Greyhawk Gazeteer but that's hard to find these days.

As for size difficulties, is there a particular reason mountain critters really need to be huge? Yeah, the mountains are big but space is also kinda at a premium, making me think big things would be better suited for plains and oceans, hence why we have Elephants and Whales where they are.

Ahh, complete divine! Not sure why I didn't look there... I can't say that I think Llerg would fit in well, though. He might be a diety for cave trolls, but the majority of troll breeds are working despertely to maintain their civility, while Llerg clearly has an anti-civilization mindset.

As for the size, there's not really a need for the mountain critters to be big, but looking at published trolls, mountain trolls are the largest breed. I just wanted to take that to it's logical extreme, because I happen to like giant monsters.

[Cieyrin]

As for the size, there's not really a need for the mountain critters to be big, but looking at published trolls, mountain trolls are the largest breed. I just wanted to take that to it's logical extreme, because I happen to like giant monsters.

Then feel free to bring forth Kaizu Troll! :smallbiggrin:

[flabort]

I dread to think about War Ymirs.
If I understood everything correctly, they'd be absolutely impenetrable to all attacks. Actually, I think they could be summed up in one word: Tarrasque.
What else? maybe just a little refluffing, since one is reptilian in some aspects, where the other isn't, but yeesh.
you practically would need a wish spell to keep a war ymir down longer than a few hours.