Which Divine Feats Are Worth Using?

[Corwin_of_Amber]

First of all, I would like to say that I am aware of the power of DMM Persist, that's not what this is about.

I have a relatively low (14) Cha score, but I still would like to take advantage of some divine feats. I would like to avoid using more than one set of nightsticks. Given those limitations, which divine feats are really worth it.

I am thinking about a few, but I would like to get people's opinions and experiances with them.

Divine Vengeance(PHBII): I can't bypass DR any better and my buff spells let me do extra damage, based on experience, does this make a difference?

Divine Fortune(PHBII): This seems good, but I can just cast Resistance, Greater and Superior.

Divine Defiance(FCII): Immediate action counters seem good, but I have little experience with countermagic since I usually just summon things to grapple/disrupt casters. Does this work well?

[dextercorvia]

I like Divine Spell Power and Domain Spontaneity.

[Stegyre]

I like . . . Domain Spontaneity.
I think Domain Spontaneity can be better substituted by an ACF from CChamp or CDivine, which does everything DS can, only better (without the turn undead cost).

[Greenish]

Divine Shield is a bit niche, but if you have a good Cha score and, for example, Shield Ward, it's rather powerful defensively.

Oh, and it should work on an animated shield just fine.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

I like Divine Spell Power and Domain Spontaneity.
Well, actually I only have one domain since I'm using Divine Magician ACF.



Divine Shield is a bit niche, but if you have a good Cha score and, for example, Shield Ward, it's rather powerful defensively.
Most of my gold is going toward Wis boosts spending a feat to get +2 AC a few times seems less than amazimg. Although I think I will try this out on my Favored Soul/Sacred Exorcist.

[dextercorvia]

I think Domain Spontaneity can be better substituted by an ACF from CChamp or CDivine, which does everything DS can, only better (without the turn undead cost).

I missed that one. IIRC, there aren't any ACF's in CD, and the only Cleric ACF I can find in CC is Pool of Healing.

Do you have any more info on it?

[Ernir]

Depends heavily on what kind of character you have.

I like Divine Might (CWar and some other books) on characters that get high numbers of attacks/round. The activation being a free action really counts for a lot.

I think Domain Spontaneity can be better substituted by an ACF from CChamp or CDivine, which does everything DS can, only better (without the turn undead cost).Spontaneous Domain Casting from PHB2?

[Last Laugh]

Don't overlook the Devotion feats from Complete champion, they aren't [divine] but they draw from your turn undead pool and can be quite powerful!

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Don't overlook the Devotion feats from Complete champion, they aren't [divine] but they draw from your turn undead pool and can be quite powerful!

I was thinking about Strength Devotion. Death Devotion would be perfect for my character's alignment, but it would have a bad save since I have low Cha.

[Greenish]

I was thinking about Strength Devotion. Death Devotion would be perfect for my character's alignment, but it would have a bad save since I have low Cha.Travel Devotion is figuratively solid gold.

Law is okay.

I like Animal. With but a single feat, anyone can sprout wings and fly!

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Travel Devotion is figuratively solid gold.

Law is okay.

I like Animal. With but a single feat, anyone can sprout wings and fly!

Law would fit my evil warlord character type, but I don't think Animal/Travel really work in terms of flavor.

On a different note, while browsing CC I noticed Battle Blessing which has the requirement "Ability to cast Paladin spells." Can a Cleric take this since he can use most of the spells on the Paladin's list?

[Sinfonian]

Law would fit my evil warlord character type, but I don't think Animal/Travel really work in terms of flavor.

On a different note, while browsing CC I noticed Battle Blessing which has the requirement "Ability to cast Paladin spells." Can a Cleric take this since he can use most of the spells on the Paladin's list?

No. Clerics cast cleric spells, even if they happen to appear on other lists at the same time.

[Stegyre]

Spontaneous Domain Casting from PHB2?
That was it! Sorry for the misdirection to CDiv.

[Stegyre]

Well, actually I only have one domain since I'm using Divine Magician ACF.
In that case, take the domain that grants Turn Undead and then get the Retrieve Spell feat (CChampion). It only allows you to spend turning attempts to recover spells "within the class that grants your turn or rebuke undead ability," but in your case, that's Wizard.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

In that case, take the domain that grants Turn Undead and then get the Retrieve Spell feat (CChampion). It only allows you to spend turning attempts to recover spells "within the class that grants your turn or rebuke undead ability," but in your case, that's Wizard.
That's the Undeath domain, and most of the spells are thoroughly useless unless your undead HD limit isn't full. I'm using War/Holy Warrior.

As for Retrieve, I'm getting the Wizard spells through my Cleric ACF, so doesn't that mean I can recover them?

[Stegyre]

Now I'm thoroughly confused: are you a wizard or a cleric?

This probably should have been asked a lot earlier, but what are your class levels?

[Fizban]

I'll second Divine Spell Power and devotion feats. Even with only a +2 cha bonus you should end up with at least +7 on the roll, 2 cha +2 synergy (know: religion) +3 (the feat itself). It's not a huge boost all the time, but it should never really be a penalty, so you can just throw it out there on important spells. Some devotion feats are awesome, some are useless. You've already ruled out the two best, so Law is really the only one left. Knowledge gives some good bonuses, but only if you pump up a lot of different knowledge skills. Strength is not good, at all. Just wait till you can buy an adamantine weapon and save your feat.

It's not a devotion feat, but I'd love to see someone try out the Holy Warrior reserve feat: it gives you a scaling damage bonus on all attacks when you have a War domain spell ready, coincidentally the domain that promotes Clericzilla the most.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Now I'm thoroughly confused: are you a wizard or a cleric?

This probably should have been asked a lot earlier, but what are your class levels?

Sorry, I'm a Human Cleric 6/Bone Knight 5 with 1 flaw, I'm looking for a 12th level feat. I already have:
Tomb-Tainted Soul
Maximize spell
Corpsecrafter
Mastery of Day and Night
Sickening Grasp
Holy Warrior


Also, how do Wizards get Turn undead? Sacred Exorcist at 10th?

EDIT: Fizban, I'm actually using Holy Warrior since all of my domain slots are War and it works nicely; with a base Str of 18, I'm dealing 2d4+6(Str)+6(HW)+enhancements with my scythe.

[Prime32]

Law would fit my evil warlord character type, but I don't think Animal/Travel really work in terms of flavor.

On a different note, while browsing CC I noticed Battle Blessing which has the requirement "Ability to cast Paladin spells." Can a Cleric take this since he can use most of the spells on the Paladin's list?No. Clerics cast cleric spells, even if they happen to appear on other lists at the same time.It's arguable that prestige paladin would work though.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

It's arguable that prestige paladin would work though.

Well, there is a sidebar about adding paladin spells to your spells known list. I was considering using a dip in that, but I wanted to get Bone Knight earlier and Mounted Combat would have been useless since we're on a naval campaign (P.S.- Full Plate+Tower Shield gives -28 to swim, if I fall off the boat I think I'm dead.)

[Akal Saris]

I'd get Law Devotion then. It fits the character, it provides a very meaningful buff to either attacks or defense for 1 minute, independent of your charisma, as only a swift action, and you can switch between which you want as another swift action. You'll be able to use it 2/day, which is plenty for a clutch feat.

Do you have a spell-storing weapon yet? If not the PHB II's spell-storing metamagic might be a very good choice, since your inflict spells are auto-maximized and you melee quite often. You might even get the sickening grasp bonus as a bonus effect as well.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Sickening grasp on a Smiting Spell would be good, but I'm not sure it works that way since the feat specifically mentions when you make a touch attack. I'm a bit confused about Smiting Spell, however, since my group decided that it takes 1 round to cast the spell on the weapon then another round to discharge it. I personally don't see the advantage of that except for the 1st round of combat when you have a spell waiting in your weapon.

[Stegyre]

Also, how do Wizards get Turn undead?
Wizards and Sorcerers get turn undead by taking their respective ACFs in (checks notes to get it right this time) CChamp -- Divine Wizard and Divine Sorcerer -- each of which allows them to choose one domain and get its respective ability. Choose Undead domain and get the Extra Turning feat: voila, your wizard or sorcerer has turn undead without ever having taken a cleric level!

[Incanur]

Divine Spell Power rules. It makes basically everything you want to do better. Blast with more dice, extend buff durations, dispel more powerful spells, and so on.

[Eldariel]

I think Domain Spontaneity can be better substituted by an ACF from CChamp or CDivine, which does everything DS can, only better (without the turn undead cost).

Domain Spontaneity is what you use for the additional domains you gain from various classes and all that. Spontaneous Domain Casting only gives you spontaneous casting from one domain.

[Stegyre]

Domain Spontaneity is what you use for the additional domains you gain from various classes and all that. Spontaneous Domain Casting only gives you spontaneous casting from one domain.
For that, you need to take Domain Spontaneity for each domain. I question whether that would be worth the investment. Pick one domain that you'd like to cast a lot from and use SDC for that domain (never prepare those spells). Use your domain slots for spells from your other good domain spell list(s) and leave it at that.

Diversity -- and spontaneity -- are good, but they come at a price and deliver diminishing returns.

[Akal Saris]

Sickening grasp on a Smiting Spell would be good, but I'm not sure it works that way since the feat specifically mentions when you make a touch attack. I'm a bit confused about Smiting Spell, however, since my group decided that it takes 1 round to cast the spell on the weapon then another round to discharge it. I personally don't see the advantage of that except for the 1st round of combat when you have a spell waiting in your weapon.

I think your party is probably right about that - it's mostly good if you have a number of encounters per day, since it's a free extra attack at the start of each fight.

[Eldariel]

For that, you need to take Domain Spontaneity for each domain. I question whether that would be worth the investment. Pick one domain that you'd like to cast a lot from and use SDC for that domain (never prepare those spells). Use your domain slots for spells from your other good domain spell list(s) and leave it at that.

Obviously it depends. That's the utility of the feat though. It's very good; SDC does not supercede it, merely complements it. The more spells you have spontaneously, the easier you life is, after all.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

I think I'm going to try Law Devotion now with Divine Spellpower as a later feat. On the topic of Law Devoton, I remember reading about a feat that added 2 extra uses to a special ability, like Lay on Hands. Does anyone know what this is and if it works on Law Devotion? If it does, it seems better than grabbing Extra Turning if I wnt to get more out of the Devotion.

[Greenish]

I'd get Law Devotion then. It fits the character, it provides a very meaningful buff to either attacks or defense for 1 minute, independent of your charisma, as only a swift action, and you can switch between which you want as another swift action.Switching between AC and attack bonus is a free action as a part of another action, or so I read it.

Wizards and Sorcerers get turn undead by taking their respective ACFs in (checks notes to get it right this time) CChamp -- Divine Wizard and Divine Sorcerer -- each of which allows them to choose one domain and get its respective ability. Choose Undead domain and get the Extra Turning feat: voila, your wizard or sorcerer has turn undead without ever having taken a cleric level!Nothing says you automatically qualify for a feat granted by a domain, so if you don't have TU, Extra Turning does nothing for you since you lack the prerequisites. (Also, if you pick War domain, the Weapon Focus will only begin to work when you have +1 BAB, technically.)

[Corwin_of_Amber]

I just have one more question about the feats discussed. For Sickening Grasp a successful save reduces the duration to 1 round, when exatly does this duration expire? At the end of the victim's turn, at the beginning of my next turn, or at the end of my next turn? Basically I want to know if I can actually get the benefit of it being sickened when I can act again.

[dextercorvia]

Wizards and Sorcerers get turn undead by taking their respective ACFs in (checks notes to get it right this time) CChamp -- Divine Wizard and Divine Sorcerer -- each of which allows them to choose one domain and get its respective ability. Choose Undead domain and get the Extra Turning feat: voila, your wizard or sorcerer has turn undead without ever having taken a cleric level!

This has a couple of problems... The not meeting the prereq's is probably alright, since you don't select it, per say. But, the text of Extra Turning, specifically states "Each time you take this feat, you can use your ability to turn or rebuke creatures four more times per day than normal. " (emph. mine)

The feat is worthless to you without the existing ability to Turn/Rebuke.

[Curmudgeon]

For Sickening Grasp a successful save reduces the duration to 1 round, when exatly does this duration expire?
All durations are in rounds from when the effect was initiated by your touch attack, so a reduction to 1 round would have the effect end just before your next turn. Basically that means the target is sickened during one of their turns, and maybe for some AoOs if they occur before your next turn.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

All durations are in rounds from when the effect was initiated by your touch attack, so a reduction to 1 round would have the effect end just before your next turn. Basically that means the target is sickened during one of their turns, and maybe for some AoOs if they occur before your next turn.

Sad, but expected. Thank you.

[Amiel]

Have you also considered Divine Metamagic, or has that particular feat being banned?

[Greenish]

Have you also considered Divine Metamagic, or has that particular feat being banned?The very first line of the original post was about DMM, so I should assume he has considered it.