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Afternoon Cptn.
2010-12-02, 11:33 PM
I'll be joining a 3.5 game in the near future. This game, by all accounts, will probably be pretty absurd, and my character will likely be no exception. My current idea hinges on the fact that lances are one handed on horseback, ostensibly to carry a shield. But why have a shield, when you could have: another lance? What's that? Horses don't fit indoors? Take Leadership, and get a mount with levels in Dungeoncrasher Fighter. Bust down walls and make the indoors outdoors. This was recommended to me by the DM.

TL;DR: Wield two lances and ride the Kool Aid Man
To those who have asked, feel free to sig this. I'd be honored.

Anyway, I'm looking about ways of making this a viable concept. Starting level is 9th, 32 point buy, with standard wealth by level.

Allowed sources are Core, PHB/DMG 2, Completes, Races of [X], ToB, XPH, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Magic, Magic Item Compendium, other sources by request (including homebrew from the internet, if it's any good).

faceroll
2010-12-02, 11:39 PM
Ride a gryphon, be a dwarf, take some levels of bloodstorm blade, and throw lances shaped like lightning bolts on soaring dive attacks. Now you get quad damage on everything everywhere.

"Ach! To the skies!!"

Shade Kerrin
2010-12-02, 11:39 PM
Oversized 2WF to negate the penalties of dual lances, then standard charger build?

Reynard
2010-12-02, 11:40 PM
You could be a Small-sized race, and ride medium sized creatures indoors.

Make that a half-orc Dungeoncrasher (You'll need an Exotic Saddle), and go crazy.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-12-02, 11:40 PM
Alternative: Be a small race, ride on a medium mount and charge away even in dungeons designed for medium creatures :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Damn swordsages :shakes fist angrily:

TKB
2010-12-02, 11:41 PM
Wield two lances and ride the Kool Aid Man




Can I add this to my sig?

Incanur
2010-12-02, 11:52 PM
This thread proves that D&D is serious business.

In other news, Lord of the Rings would be ten times cooler if Legolas used a shield as a skateboard and the Witch-king dual-wielded a ridiculously huge flail and bastard sword. I hope Biblo rides a laser-equipped mutant spider in the The Hobbit movie.

:smallfrown:

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-12-03, 12:31 AM
Check out the X Stat to Y Bonus thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) and ask your DM if you can reverse engineer the sword of graceful strikes to lances instead.

big teej
2010-12-03, 12:34 AM
TL;DR: Wield two lances and ride the Kool Aid Man


oh gosh this made me laugh so hard

can I PLEEEEASE sig this?

Seerow
2010-12-03, 12:36 AM
Take Leadership, and get a mount with levels in Dungeoncrasher Fighter. Bust down walls and make the indoors outdoors. This was recommended to me by the DM.

TL;DR: Wield two lances and ride the Kool Aid Man


Best thing Ive read on these forums in a long time.

Coidzor
2010-12-03, 01:12 AM
Check out the X Stat to Y Bonus thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) and ask your DM if you can reverse engineer the sword of graceful strikes to lances instead.

What's the source of the Sword of Graceful Strikes?


Ride a gryphon, be a dwarf, take some levels of bloodstorm blade, and throw lances shaped like lightning bolts on soaring dive attacks. Now you get quad damage on everything everywhere.

"Ach! To the skies!!"

Heh, nice. :smallbiggrin: Love that mental image.


I'll be joining a 3.5 game in the near future. This game, by all accounts, will probably be pretty absurd, and my character will likely be no exception. My current idea hinges on the fact that lances are one handed on horseback, ostensibly to carry a shield. But why have a shield, when you could have: another lance? What's that? Horses don't fit indoors? Take Leadership, and get a mount with levels in Dungeoncrasher Fighter. Bust down walls and make the indoors outdoors. This was recommended to me by the DM.

I'd been wondering how much the damage multiplier from having a lance would make up for TWF being behind THF.

Still haven't crunched the numbers yet though. x,x So thanks for getting me thinking about this again.

I'm thinking Goliath would be a good race for a humanoid mount if you're Small, if no humanoid mounts a dungeonbred(Dungeonscape) version of a large creature is another option to consider for a Small rider. For a medium rider, I believe there are two feats for tunnel-fighting that will let your large sized mount squeeze into medium-sized spaces without penalty. Of course, that leaves you with 4 feats (the two tunnel fighting, TWF, and Oversized TWF) + the 3 minimum mounted combat feats for spirited charge. You could just take a penalty for squeezing if you ever get in a fight in a hallway that's not big enough for you and your mount and fight more or less normally in most rooms instead of taking the tunnel fighting feats.

I believe items can help with the TWF (gloves of the balanced hand?) and either Ride-By-Attack or Spirited Charge (riding boots?) via the Magic Item Compendium.

Depending upon how high you go, you might have your cohort head for Fighter 9-10 if you can get Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels(Champions of Valor Web Enhancement, no interference with Dungeoncrasher, at levels 3, 5, and 9 I believe) + Imperious Command(Drow of the Underdark) and the Never Outnumbered Skill trick(Complete Scoundrel). Lets you charge in and devastate a group of enemies and then make them more or less unable to retaliate. Some barbarian for pounce, whirling frenzy, and intimidating rage would be good with that as well.

And since fear stacks and the worst condition lasts as long as any and all other fear effects' durations, if you do it right, you can take any non-mindless, non-fear immune creature out of the fight for a good bit of time, especially if you have a source of fear in addition to your mount.

And really, what's more awe-inspiring than the kool-aid man being ridden by a psycho with two lances? :smallamused:


Make that a half-orc Dungeoncrasher (You'll need an Exotic Saddle), and go crazy.

Is another potentially good fit. Especially if you go with the intimidate-synergy that half-orcs can unlock for a fear-based mount.


TL;DR: Wield two lances and ride the Kool Aid Man

I love you for this. :smallbiggrin:

Edit:

Oh, and Mount Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7414.0)will have some worthwhile reading on feats. Not that much since it's build around non-leveling mounts for the most part. But I think enough.

For you:
Items:Gloves of the Balanced Hand (MIC, p105): let you act as if you had TWF. If you have TWF, lets you act as if you had Improved TWF.

Riding Boots(MIC, p121): Boosts Ride skill. Act as if you have Ride-By-Attack. If you have Spirited Charge, the multiplier increases from x3 to x4 damage.
Your Mount

Items: Boots of the Battlecharger(MIC, p76): Allow a charge as a standard action 2x a day.

Cyran Gliding Boots (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a) are another potential item, especially using stacking rules...

Fearsome Armor Property: Intimidate as a move action. Less sure of my recommendation here, especially as I cannot remember the particular source. Maybe Drow of the Underdark again.

Chronocharm of the horizon walker(MIC, p86):

Reynard
2010-12-03, 01:20 AM
...Actually, I think a Goliath could be ridden by another Medium-sized creature.

They do count as Large whenever it's beneficial, after all.

Gensh
2010-12-03, 01:25 AM
...Actually, I think a Goliath could be ridden by another Medium-sized creature.

They do count as Large whenever it's beneficial, after all.

That gets me thinking...do the rules say anything about mounts riding mounts? How viable would a goliath totem pole be? :smallbiggrin:

Dexam
2010-12-03, 01:28 AM
I'll be joining a 3.5 game in the near future. This game, by all accounts, will probably be pretty absurd, and my character will likely be no exception. My current idea hinges on the fact that lances are one handed on horseback, ostensibly to carry a shield. But why have a shield, when you could have: another lance?

This is only allowable if you're a female dark elf cavalier on the back of a unicorn (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0536.html).

:smallwink:

Reynard
2010-12-03, 01:34 AM
That gets me thinking...do the rules say anything about mounts riding mounts? How viable would a goliath totem pole be? :smallbiggrin:

And they'd all fit into a 5x5x5 foot square.

It's like dwarf fortress, where a thousand giants can all fit in a single tile, as long as 999 as laying down.

Only all thousand are stacked on top of each other, and 999 of them a duel-wielding lances while the bottom one runs through walls.

Coidzor
2010-12-03, 01:41 AM
^: So... depending upon how feat heavy things are, he might be the mount and the little guy on top might be the cohort? Except they're the same size and taking advantage of the Powerful Build's advantageous clause....
...Actually, I think a Goliath could be ridden by another Medium-sized creature.

They do count as Large whenever it's beneficial, after all.

...Goliaths, my god... :smalleek:

That would explain how they manage to all travel together and need to be fit... Yertle the Turtling over the mountains...

Demon 997
2010-12-03, 01:49 AM
Wait, Could you actually ride a unicorn and have its horn count as an extra lance? Better yet could you make it look like the unicorn for Robot Unicorn Attack? Unicorn Warforged? With an item that plays the song? Which would force intimidation checks of course

Afternoon Cptn.
2010-12-03, 02:12 AM
Thanks for all of the advice and feedback, these all seem like great ideas- not to mention absolutely fantastic mental images.

At the moment, I'm looking at human, 1 level of barbarian for pounce, 1 or 2 fighter levels if I need some feats, and then rounding out the rest with Warblade/Crusader, especially as my DM has directed me towards Age of Warriors and the horesmanship (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40991) disciplines (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7780232&postcount=378).


Goliath mounts seem like a very good idea- with red armor, I actually could read the Kool Aid man- though, I must admit, I still have a fondness for the traditional man on a horse image.


What's the source of the Sword of Graceful Strikes?
...


It's Arms and Equipment Guide. Also, thanks for this post, it's teeming with great ideas.



And they'd all fit into a 5x5x5 foot square.

It's like dwarf fortress, where a thousand giants can all fit in a single tile, as long as 999 as laying down.

Only all thousand are stacked on top of each other, and 999 of them a duel-wielding lances while the bottom one runs through walls.

This is hilarious; Also, hooray for DorfFort!


Wait, Could you actually ride a unicorn and have its horn count as an extra lance? Better yet could you make it look like the unicorn for Robot Unicorn Attack? Unicorn Warforged? With an item that plays the song? Which would force intimidation checks of course

Love this image too.

Also, to give an idea of how absurd this game will be: the other players is working on a dive-bombing thief, shark missiles, and a Dissembler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8786444&postcount=7).

Admiral Squish
2010-12-03, 02:12 AM
Wait, Could you actually ride a unicorn and have its horn count as an extra lance? Better yet could you make it look like the unicorn for Robot Unicorn Attack? Unicorn Warforged? With an item that plays the song? Which would force intimidation checks of course

Better still: Ride a triceratops. FIVE LANCE ATTACKS AT ONCE + POWERFUL CHARGE!

Runestar
2010-12-03, 03:29 AM
So a thri-keen can wield 4 lances from horseback? :smallamused:

absolmorph
2010-12-03, 04:21 AM
So a thri-keen can wield 4 lances from horseback? :smallamused:
Thri-kreen only have three arms, where's the fou-
... Ew :smallmad:

Gensh
2010-12-03, 04:27 AM
Better still: Ride a triceratops. FIVE LANCE ATTACKS AT ONCE + POWERFUL CHARGE!


So a thri-keen can wield 4 lances from horseback? :smallamused:

Gentlemen, you're thinking too small. Halfling wielding 2 lances riding a Thri-keen wielding 4 lances riding an awakened giant octopus wielding 8 lances riding an awakened triceratops whose horns count as 3 lances for a total of 17 lances. Any smaller than that, and you're not going to hit; any larger, and you're not going to fit indoors.

Coidzor
2010-12-03, 04:31 AM
^: Give 'em all bite attacks and you can get 4 more lances in there with the mouthpick weapon property. Not sure if they'd actually be useable with the rest of the lances though... :smallconfused:

Some aberrant feat will grant 1-2 tentacles (I think deep spawn) which can be used with gloves of man to count as extra hands, which could be used to wield lances. But, again, runs into the same problem as giving them bite attacks and filling the bite attacks in with mouthpick weapons, being able to bring them to bear...
Better still: Ride a triceratops. FIVE LANCE ATTACKS AT ONCE + POWERFUL CHARGE!


So a thri-keen can wield 4 lances from horseback? :smallamused:

This gave me the horrible idea of having a mount with a bite attack* and somehow giving a thri-keen a bite attack and using +X Valorous Mouth-pick(Lords of Madness, p.46) lances. Multi-weapon fighting can take care of that 5th weapon on the thri-keen, right?

4 +1 Valorous Lances (8K? * 4 = 32)
1 +1 Valorous Mouthpick Lance (18K?)

50K if Valorous is a +1 bonus equivalent to get that off the ground, 32K for just the regular thri-keen bit.

*...Of course, the mount isn't counted as mounted so some other reach weapon would probably be better, but that's beside the point.

OP: If you go with a humanoid with Powerful Build Mount, here's Flaming Homer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4108954&postcount=22) a build which kicks off psionically a level or 2 after level 7 where your cohort would be optimally be starting.

Basically it's a pouncing dungeoncrasher with a touch-attack energy whip (consider the pyrokineticist variants (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e) here) who finishes up with pisonic manifesting. Can be either a Half-Giant or a Goliath, actually.

If your DM doesn't use psionics, you might still see about him allowing the pyrokineticist or one of the energy variants due to the fact that they aren't manifesting classes.

Fizban
2010-12-03, 04:40 AM
Gentlemen, you're thinking too small. Halfling wielding 2 lances riding a Thri-keen wielding 4 lances riding an awakened giant octopus wielding 8 lances riding an awakened triceratops whose horns count as 3 lances for a total of 17 lances. Any smaller than that, and you're not going to hit; any larger, and you're not going to fit indoors.

The octopus also has the Tunnel Fighting and Tunnel Riding feats, allowing his mount to fight without penalty in spaces sized for Large creatures. The whole troop can ride into a standard Ogre lair. Since you share your mount's space, that would be one 10'x10'x10' space.

Kris Strife
2010-12-03, 04:48 AM
Make them all half-dragon to get the bite attacks, wings on the Large and larger mounts and see if you can talk the DM into letting the triceratops' claws count as lances, just to add two more.

If you need a reason why they all work together, they're all siblings.

Runestar
2010-12-03, 04:55 AM
How would a hydra work as a mount? :smalltongue:

Coidzor
2010-12-03, 05:15 AM
How would a hydra work as a mount? :smalltongue:

Well, that's between 5 and 12 lances, though I think it'd preclude you from attacking due to the reach that's already on the bite attack being coupled with the reach of the lances. So that's 40-96K for the +1 mouthpick lances.

14 lances * 8000 gp a lance = 112,000 gp for the +1 valorous lances for the riders of that halfling on thri-keen on octopus on triceratops pyramid.

You could up it by having a halfling on top of a dungeonbred octopus on top of an octopus on top of the triceratops though. Which would be 2+8+8+3= 18 lances and 3 counts as lance horns, 144K gp for the +1 valorous lances for the riders.

Hmm, is there a way to increase the size of an octopus and make it a tauric octopus so that the upperbody portion counts as mounted like a centaurs' does? Tauric critters can be ridden, right?

Runestar
2010-12-03, 05:18 AM
I guess this would qualify as an ultrazord formation. :smallamused:

I now have this mental image of the participants all jumping on top of one another in turn, with old-school power rangers music blaring in the background! :smalleek:

Coidzor
2010-12-03, 06:16 AM
I guess this would qualify as an ultrazord formation. :smallamused:

I now have this mental image of the participants all jumping on top of one another in turn, with old-school power rangers music blaring in the background! :smalleek:

It would be pretty impressive. And terrifying.

So, I decided to crunch some numbers to compare TWF with 2 lances vs. 2HF with a single lance in both hands, and I realized I don't know what to do with a mounted charger beyond slapping on Shock Trooper and Spirited Charge and getting pounce.


Medium character Fighter 4/Barbarian 1/Full BAB 1: Assumed TWF feat for TWF guy, PA for 2 on THF
18 strength. Lance (1d8)

Basic charge
2HF: +12 (1d8+6)2 = 10.5*2 = 21
PA: +10 (1d8+8)2 = 12.5*2 = 25

2WF: +10 (1d8+4)2, (1d8+2)2 = 8.5*2, 6.5*2 = 17, 13

so 21 vs. 25 vs. 30

5-9 point lead on TWF

with spirited charge

2HF: +12 (1d8+6)3 = 10.5*3 = 31.5
PA: +10 (1d8+8)3 = 12.5*3 = 37.5

2WF: +10 (1d8+4)3, (1d8+2)3 = 8.5*3, 6.5*3 = 25.5, 19.5

31.5 vs. 37.5 vs. 45

7.5-13.5 lead on TWF

with spirited charge and riding boots

2HF: +12 (1d8+6)4 = 10.5*4 = 42
PA: +10 (1d8+8)4 = 12.5*4 = 50

2WF: +10 (1d8+4)4, (1d8+2)4 = 8.5*4, 6.5*4 = 34, 26

42 vs. 50 vs. 60

10-18 point lead on TWF

with spirited charge and riding boots and +1 valorous lances vs. +12 valorous collision lance
Edit: whoops, collision is a +2

2HF: +12 (1d8+6+5+1)5 = 16.5*5 = 82.5
PA: +10 (1d8+6+5+1+2)5 = 18.5*5 = 92.5


2HF: +12 (1d8+6+2)5 = 12.5*5 = 62.5
PA: +10 (1d8+6+2+2)5 = 14.5*5 = 72.5

2WF: +10 (1d8+4+1)5, (1d8+2+1)5 = 9.5*5, 7.5*5 = 47.5, 37.5 = 85

82.5 vs. 92.5 vs 85

PA with 7.5 lead

62.5 vs. 72.5 vs 85

TWF with a 22.5-12.5 lead

2HF
H - Mounted Combat
1 - Ride By Attack
F1 - Spirited Charge
F2 - Power Attack
3 - Improved Bull Rush
F4 - ????
6 - Shock Trooper

2WF
H - Mounted Combat
1 - Ride By Attack
F1 - Spirited Charge
F2 - Two Weapon Fighting
3 - Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
F4 - Improved Bull-Rush
6 - Shock Trooper



2HF 1 level dip into barbarian for pounce
2WF 1 level dip into barbarian for pounce

with spirited charge and riding boots and +1 valorous lances(TWF) vs. +1 +2 valorous collision lance(THF)

PA for full 2HF: +12 (1d8+6strength+6power attack+5collision+1enhancement)5 = 22.5*5 = 112.5
Full routine. +12 ~112.5 damage, +7 ~112.5 damage
average damage if all hit: ~225

PA for full 2HF: +12 (1d8+6strength+6power attack+2enhancement)5 = 18.5*5 = 92.5
Full routine. +12 ~92.5 damage, +7 ~92.5 damage
average damage if all hit: ~185

PA for full 2WF: +10 (1d8+4strength+6power attack+1enhancement)5, (1d8+2strength+6power attack+1enhancement)5 = 15.5*5, 13.5*5 = 77.5, 67.5
Full routine: +10 ~77.5 damage, +10 ~67.5 damage, +5 ~77.5 damage, +5 ~67.5 damage(if gloves of balanced hand)
average damage if all hit: ~222.5 w/out gloves/ITWF, ~290 with gloves/ITWF.

185 vs. 222.5 vs. 290

37.5 point lead for the TWF if all hit.

Edit: but of course, if all hit, the enemy likely isn't that much of a threat in the first place

Fizban
2010-12-03, 07:17 AM
That's basically it. The reason to play a mounted charger is for the extra x2 multiplier from using a lance, otherwise it's just like any other charge build. Note that there's nothing special about Valorous weapons for mounted builds: they work on any type of charge. The problem is that once you allow them in the world, every single weapon should have it. Valorous is classically broken in the sense that there just is no better choice. Jumping through the hoops required to work a mounted lancer or Battle Jump build seems pointless when you'll only add one more to the multipliers from Valorous, vaulting, and all the other charge magic.

The funny thing is that no one ever seems to mention Valorous for chargers on foot, just the mounted and Battle Jumping. You can tell that the specialty builds went looking for stuff to make themselves special, and found the item everyone should be using. It makes the build look crazy awesome, but once you peel back the cover and look at the items, you realize that it's not really the build doing the work, as all those feats and class abilities only came out to the effect of a +1 weapon ability.

Anyway, rant over. TWF lances? Assuming you can hit on all your attacks you end up with +4/-1 thanks to Leap Attack applying to both your weapons, but the -2 penalty means that they're 6 damage ahead before you even start. But, if all your attacks are hitting, base weapon and strength should beat that out, and you have a higher damage cap you you max out your PA. And then of course you have the extra multiplier for using a lance, which is the whole point of the build. A lancer can always deal more damage than someone on foot, so you really don't have to worry about that. You can deal as much or more damage than another lancer, but you won't have all the other feat abilities, just like any other TWFer.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-12-03, 09:12 AM
Thri-kreen only have three arms, where's the fou-
... Ew :smallmad:

What do you mean? :smallconfused: I count four arms
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wzU45AV_odo/S7PqQqMSlMI/AAAAAAAABBM/1suQzijWdew/s1600/96402.jpg

Coidzor
2010-12-03, 03:05 PM
^: I think he was making some kind of innuendo.

But since no one takes ranks in Sense Motive, his intended message was secure.

The necessary feats do take up quite the chunk of space... Getting a five times multiplier on damage before critting is pretty nifty though. Can't really crit-fish all that well with a crit range of 1 such as lances have at least. So there's no real temptation there at least. When one would though... x7 damage.

Actually, that reminds me, if you want the effects of TWF, consider getting the Whirling Frenzy variant of rage with the barbarian dip for pounce. Whirling Frenzy + TWF(either the feat or gloves of the balanced hand) could give 3 attacks at highest attack bonus in exchange for giving a -4 to all attacks made that round.

Which would put PA out of the window except with shocktrooper in the vast majority of cases. Probably better to just stick with one or the other, and whirling frenzy and the gloves don't cost a feat, due to the penalty being basically that of the 2nd iterative attack.

Codenpeg
2010-12-03, 03:22 PM
Gentlemen, you're thinking too small. Halfling wielding 2 lances riding a Thri-keen wielding 4 lances riding an awakened giant octopus wielding 8 lances riding an awakened triceratops whose horns count as 3 lances for a total of 17 lances. Any smaller than that, and you're not going to hit; any larger, and you're not going to fit indoors.

I'm gonna rogue this for my signature... any maybe commission a picture of this. I'll make sure to PM you when its done.

Also couldn't you add a fairy or something to ride the Halfling?

Coidzor
2010-12-03, 04:48 PM
I'm gonna rogue this for my signature... any maybe commission a picture of this. I'll make sure to PM you when its done.

Also couldn't you add a fairy or something to ride the Halfling?

I think the main thing is that its attacks wouldn't be able to get out of the space of the largest mount. The halfling's got reach 10 on a 5' mount's space. So that's 10' out it can effect, the thri-keen's got reach 10 on a 10' mount's space so that's 20' out it can effect, the octopus has reach 10+20 on a 15' mount's space, 10+10 reach if you give it a mouthpick lance for its bite attack, and the triceratops has reach 10 and a 15' space.

...Hmm, I don't think the halfling is able to manage reaching outside of the triceratops' space. If it had the aberrant feat that grants +5' reach or willing deformity: tall, maybe... And a tiny creature riding the halfling would need both of those, I think. Which is either a -2 to hit or a -4 for the both of the feats, I believe. And that's 2-4 feats down depending upon if one is extending reach 5' or 10'.

Incanur
2010-12-03, 04:59 PM
Mount chains are a really weird concept. In theory you could go from fine to colossal. Only the fine creature on the top would face attacks without benefit of Ride-check AC.

Coidzor
2010-12-03, 05:00 PM
Mount chains are a really weird concept. In theory you could go from fine to colossal. Only the fine creature on the top would face attacks without benefit of Ride-check AC.

And probably receive a hefty circumstance bonus to hide considering all of the distractions beneath it.

Greenish
2010-12-03, 05:21 PM
^: I think he was making some kind of innuendo.Then it makes sense that 3.5 players missed it.

Anyhow, you're going to want a lot of feats. Let's go over the basics and see how we can do it:

TWF or Imp. TWF: fighter feats, ranger combat styles, Gloves of the Balanced Hand (MIC, 8000gp, TWF or ITWF).
Mounted Combat: fighter feats, Riding Boots (DMGII, 12 000gp, Ride-by Attack), Battle Bridle (MIC, 9000gp, Mounted Combat or Ride-by Attack)
Ride-by Attack: Battle Bridle (MIC, 9000gp, Mounted Combat or Ride-by Attack)
Spirited Charge: Lance of Faerūn (MoF, 98310gp, Spirited Charge).
Leadership/Wild Cohort: Fire-souled (Dragon #314, +2 LA template, Leadership + cha boost), warbeast animals (MMII, dirt cheap).

Coidzor
2010-12-03, 06:18 PM
^: Oh man. 66K for a feat, unless I did the math wrong. :smalleek: Course it is a good one with 2 feats as pre-requisites. Of course, valorous has the same effect for a +1 bonus.

Though it is amusing that all of a mounted charger's essential feats can be picked up by any charger with gold to spare.

Riding boots are in the MIC though, on page 121, not DMG (or at least, not in the SRD portion of the DMG). (edit:Whoops, missed the "II" at the end.) Saw Battle Bridle in Magic of Faerun just now as I was looking up the Lance of Faerun, and then again in MIC page 151, just halved the bonus to ride checks and kept the price when they updated it.
~~~~~~~~

Hmm... So it comes to mind that you haven't really said what you wanted to do other than lance people with your lancy lances, OP. A bit more feedback on what you'd like to be doing would be helpful. Hmm. Sadly, I don't know if there's a way to designate a cohort as your special mount, so supermounting is probably out of the picture so you will have to focus on yourself some more.

Champions of valor web enhancement. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)

Build speculation
Human Feat: Mounted Combat
1st level Feat: Extra Rage
1 Barbarian 1: Pounce, Whirling Frenzy Rage variant
2 Fighter 1: Feat: Ride-by-Attack
3 Fighter 2: Feat: Spirited Charge (pretty much done with the feats for mounted charging now)
3rd level Feat: TWF or ???
4
5
6
6th level Feat: Leadership
7
8
9
9th level Feat:

As you can see, it'll be fairly easy to work in TWF and Oversized TWF with 6 levels to spare. A thought to consider, if you can get a bite attack through some means, you could TWF with the mouthpick weapon and a weapon held in two hands. So you'd either get .5, 1, or 1.5x the strength to damage for the mouthpick lance and get 1.5x the strength to damage for the two-handed lance.

So a +1 valorous mouthpick lance (+3 equivalent, wielded using a bite natural weapon slot, x2 damage on charge) and a +1 valorous charging lance (+3 equivalent, +2d6 damage on a charge, x2 damage on a charge) could be a good setup to shoot for if you can get a bite attack without significant investment away from whatever you want to do.

You could shoot for that feat that lets you confer the benefits of your rage to your mount. So if your mount has a different variant of rage than you, it could benefit from both types at once, or at least be able to pick which rage variant to use in a combat, either its own or yours.

item ramble:
~36K. 2 +1 valorous lances = 16K
12K riding boots (can retrain ride-by attack feat into something else)

36K-28K = 8K left for armor, ability/AC enhancers, and miscellaneous gear... or gloves of the balanced hand.

vs. 1 +1 valorous lance = 8310 1 +1 lance = 2310 or 10620 gp for the pair.

16K to play with for that.

2500 for +1 fullplate (and if you want to get 2 feats for the cost of a trait and a flaw, you can get the slow trait and slow flaw for a bonus feat and the equivalent of improved toughness which would help with the need to have a 15 dex for TWF)

8K for gloves of the balanced hand+2K for strength = 12500+10620= 23120K spent, so one could get riding boots and have 880gp left over for miscellaneous purposes or saving for the next bit o' swag.


Half-Minotaur/Half-Ogre/Half-Giant/Goliath Dungeoncrasher/Zhentarim Fighter Barbarian

Goliath:
1st level feat: Extra Rage
1 Barbarian 1: Pounce(Comp. Champion, Spirit Lion), Maybe Mountain Rage, maybe whirling frenzy
2 Barbarian 2: Bonus Feat: Improved Trip(UA Wolf Totem)* optional
3 Fighter 1: Feat: Power Attack
3rd level feat: Improved Bull Rush
4 Fighter 2: Dungeoncrasher1
5 Fighter 3: Zhent Sub Level(champions of valor, WE): Skill Focus: Intimidate
6 Fighter 4: Feat: ???Knock-Down or Knock-Back... probably knock-back
6th level feat: Shock Trooper
7 ????? Fighter 5 would allow Zhent Soldier Sub level which gives Extended Intimidate(LA buyoff would have your cohort at near the point of leveling up to level 7, IIRC, without LA buyoff he'll be at 6 even I think)

Give him a valorous reach weapon, possibly a guisarme, and +X defending armorspikes for close-in work. I figure leap attack would be a good feat to follow up shock trooper, as though it won't work for you since you're mounted, your mount can jump and get the benefits. This would quadruple the benefit of his power attack (leap attack is x2, 2-handed weapon+leap attack is x3, valorous is another x2 so subtract one from it and add it to the x3 for x4 total).

If you can get battle jump on that as well, that's x3 to the damage and x5 to the power attack.

Alternatively, there might be some interest in a Fangshields (champions of valor) monstrous cohort, but nothing comes to mind of them for a cohort at the moment.