Pounce+Battle Leaders Charge=win?

[Escheton]

Pounce states: "When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack—including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability."


Battle leaders charge states:"As part of this maneuver you charge an opponent. You do not provoke AoO's for moving as a part of this charge, if your charge attack hits, it deals an extra 10 points of dmg.


The Valorous weaponenchant reads: "+1, Deal double damage on your charges."

Does that mean that a +1 Valorous/+1Valorous orc double axe deals normal attackdmg +20 on the first charge attack, and then you get a free full attack, with double dmg?

[Incanur]

I think that works, yeah. Charging kills people, no doubt about it. But double axes are pretty goofy. :smallsmile:

[Dracons]

Yep. Fighter type players now have nice things.

Though by that level, wizards still kill faster and easier.


And naturally the wizard type bad players out there is now currently foaming at the mouth that a fighter type is dealing some damage. It's totally unfair and overpowered to them.

[Escheton]

What I'm mostly wondering: is the full attack still part of the charge? And thus doubled by the valorous enchantment on my double axe?

The use is for a shadow creature waterorc ranger2/barb3(trapkiller)/crusader1/EyeofGruumsh2

[JaronK]

Doesn't work. Strike maneuvers like that never work multiple times... they're not a boost added to all attacks, they're a single strike.

With Battle Leader's Charge, you'd have a single attack. Pouncing would probably be a better idea. If you want an improved pounce maneuver, you'll need something like Dancing Mongoose or Raging Mongoose.

Basically, using BLC instead of pounce is exactly like using any other strike maneuver instead of a full attack... you can't combine them for the exact same reason.

JaronK

[Karsh]

Yes, if you pounce, your charge modifiers apply to all your attacks.

One thing to consider is that attacking with a double axe is two-weapon fighting, so you don't have one attack doing +20, you have two doing +10 at a -2 penalty (offset by the +2 from charging), but that means that you have to have at least 15 DEX and pay the TWF feat tax to do it.

Far more feasible is to simply use a greatsword or something else and thrash what you're charging.

EDIT: JaronK makes a good point. Specific trumps general, and Battle Leader's Charge specifically states that you only get one attack at the end of the charge. +10 damage is kind of meh anyways for a charge. What you really need to do is be a centaur with a +1 Valorous Lance and Spirited Charge with Shock Trooper and Leap Attack. But uberchargers have been done to death and back again.

[Stallion]

Actually, I don't think that works. The maneuver itself is a full round action, and the charge is simply part of it.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I asked the folks at the RAW thread about combining BLC with pounce, and the answer I got was that the +10 damage only applied to the first attack, but you still got to make the extra attacks granted by pounce. So, not as wonderful, but it works, and you do still get to ignore AoOs.

[Escheton]

Perfect, thats what I was thinking.
So either way the weapon enchant always only works on the first strike then?
The rest is just gravy attacks.

[Incanur]

I thought valorous did work will pouncing, but it's been a while. I remember folks claiming it worked, anyways.

[Brogen]

but that means that you have to have at least 15 DEX and pay the TWF feat tax to do it.

Or take two levels of ranger and get it for free without having to worry about the dex requirements.

[Escheton]

Thats the idea. Totem barb, 2 lvls of ranger for the feat and for skillpoints, because this guy is likely to be retarded.

It will mostly be a trapkiller and tracker. But while researching the crusader maneuvers and acf for ranger and barb I came across this combo...

Now...follow up with a full attack, that means from highest one to lowest right? Not counting the full attack bonus charge attack?

Just doublechecking everything.

[Mongoose87]

While you're at it, do it while you're in the Leading the Charge stance.

[Runestar]

Doesn't seem that useful in a party, which won't have that many fighters.

But sounds like a very dastardy stunt to pull with a warblade npc surrounded with lots of chargers. :smallcool:

[Escheton]

Gibberling warleader?
Man that sounds awesome.
In case someone doesnt know, gibberlings are small goblin/kobold type critters that use swarm tactics and imploy a demoralising soundeffect.

[Coidzor]

Yes, you always go from highest attack bonus to lowest when making an attack routine that features more than one attack. And when TWF, I believe it goes Highest Bonus and where tied it picks main hand first and then the offhand and then on to the next highest bonus.


Or take two levels of ranger and get it for free without having to worry about the dex requirements.

Or buy some Gloves of the Balanced Hand featured in the Magic Item Compendium, and found on page 105.

[Acanous]

Also invest in Power Attack/Shock Trooper. You're using 2Handed weapons, so you get double bonus.
The Valorous does apply to all attacks made in your charge. The Strike bonus does not.

[Person_Man]

Damage can be multiplied by:

Leap Attack: Increases Power Attack ration on Charge if you can make an easy Jump check. Can't be combined with mounted Charge. Complete Adventurer.
Lance: Multiplies damage on Charge from a mount. Remember that you can use it two handed, or with Oversized Two Weapon Fighting and Pounce. Also a reach weapon, which is pretty much a requirement for many melee builds. PHB.
Spirited Charge: Multiplies damage on Charge from a mount. PHB.
Riding Boots: Unnamed bonus to Ride, and if you have Spirited Charge you further multiply your damage when you Charge. DMGII pg 270.
Centaur: Multiplies damage on a Charge as a racial ability. Use Polymorph or something similar. Monster Manual.
Headlong Rush: Multiplies damage on any Charge, but provokes an attack of opportunity from everyone who threatens you (including your target). This can be avoided with a reach weapon. Or it can be used to your advantage with a King of Smack Karmic Strike/Vampiric Claws combo. Player's Guide to Faerun.
Rhino's Rush (Pal 2): Immediate Action spell. Multiplies damage on a Charge. If necessary, make a Wand, and put it in a Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape pg 34). Spell Compendium.
Battle Jump: Multiplies damage on a Charge if you drop from at least 10 feet above your enemy - which can be done with a moderately high Jump check, or by attacking from higher ground. Unapproachable East.
Valorous weapon enhancement: Multiplies damage on a Charge. Unapproachable East.
Frenzied Berserker: Gets a higher Power Attack multiplier, but comes with a lot of potential issues (like killing all of your party members). Complete Warrior.
Anything with a good critical hit range or multiplier. Given the existence of the Scabbard of Keen Edges, I personally never bother with the Keen enhancement or wasting a feat on Improved Critical when there are so many other better options for feats. But this is debatable. PHB/DMG.
Most things that add extra attacks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595) will also greatly increase your damage output when combined with Power Attack (including natural attacks).


So the bonus damage from Battle Leaders Charge is nifty at level 3, and can be multiplied via any of the above methods that you can qualify for at that level. But by the time you can afford a Valorous weapon, you probably have better things to do.