Building a really powerful wizard (gestalt)

[faceroll]

Say you had to start out a wizard at level 1 in a level 8+ party. What would your build look like?

So far, I have deep spellhoarding riddled dragonwrough kobold loredrake, for 31 int and the ability to learn ANY spell he counters. And wiz 3 casting.

Build is: wiz5/ultimate magus 2/incant3/UM 8/incant3. That way I get some cool spells before I have to ban whatever school I ban going into incant. Qualify for UM with spontaneous divination.

What should I put on the other side? StP Erudite? Artificer?
Spells that I should pick up?

[Reynard]

You want passive bonuses.

Take 2 levels of monk, for a start, then cherry-pick other cool class features, like Warblade's Int to Reflex saves and full BaB.

EDIT: Oh, and Factotum, Factotum, FACTOTUM.

[Chaelos]

I might also suggest a template that adds to INT, if your DM allows it, on the non-wizard "side" of the gestalt. But, yeah, passive bonuses are the way to go otherwise.

[Fouredged Sword]

Be warned, UM is likely to be baned in gestalt.

That being said take spellthief on the other side and take maser spellthief so your caster level gets insane.

[Eloel]

Factotum 8/Psion 12.

Get Schism, break action economy to pieces. (Schism can cast Still & Silent spells. You will love Silent Dimension Door)

[Baveboi]

Wizard/Sorcerer if I wanted to go for raw power. Maybe Warlock. Probly Warlock.

It isn't a question of how many templates, classes, feats you have. It's a question of how you use them. I find spells to be strangely more usefull than, let's say, a monk bonus to CA or whatever it entails.
Heh. "I ate a monk once. He tasted like chocolate" _Warlock Richard.

Anyway, keep it simple, but try to build in character not in build. A wizard who knows what he's doing can wreck havock among the fool.

[umbrapolaris]

spell to power Erudite/cerebremancer/ dragon-king of Athas (Dark Sun Prc ), not sure your DM will let you do it unless he likes challenges ^^

[Eldan]

In all likelyhood, you'll already have enough spells from wizard alone. Your second side should be whatever helps you cast better. Your stack of templates will probably take up quite a bit of it. After that, get either classes with good defences, to make you difficult to kill, or either psion or factotum, to let you spend resources for more actiosn per turn, which then lets you fire spells faster. Something like 6 or 8 spells per turn was possible, I believe?

[Soren Hero]

Ur priest? maybe beholder mage?

[Fouredged Sword]

Break the arcane casting/divine casting divide with cleric/geomancer on the other side? Then get DMM persist.

[faceroll]

Be warned, UM is likely to be baned in gestalt.

Doh. Forgot about that. Do you think it would be worthwhile to gestalt for 5 levels, then stop just so I can get like 1.6 CL per level?


In all likelyhood, you'll already have enough spells from wizard alone. Your second side should be whatever helps you cast better. Your stack of templates will probably take up quite a bit of it. After that, get either classes with good defences, to make you difficult to kill, or either psion or factotum, to let you spend resources for more actiosn per turn, which then lets you fire spells faster. Something like 6 or 8 spells per turn was possible, I believe?

The templates only amount to +1 LA. :)


Break the arcane casting/divine casting divide with cleric/geomancer on the other side? Then get DMM persist.

Three levels of incantatrix is better for persistence abuse, IMO.

[Flickerdart]

Factotum 20 should cover all your bases. Traditionally, the second side of a Gestalt is a frenzy of dips to cherry-pick obscure bonuses, so stack your INT to everything you can think of.

[Reynard]

Intelligence
{table=head]Name | Type | Book |
Page # |
Edition | Bonus | Notes
Bayushi Deceiver 2 | PrC | Oriental Adventures |
225 |
3.0 | Initiative | -
Blade Singer 1 | PrC | Complete Warrior |
17 |
3.5 | AC | Limited by class level
Darkrunner 3 | PrC | Lords of Madness |
187 |
3.5 | Initiative | While underground
Darkrunner 8 | PrC | Lords of Madness |
187 |
3.5 | Damage | While on difficult terrain
Disciple of Baalzebul 2 | PrC | BoVD |
? |
3.0 | Bluff | In addition to Cha
Diviner (http://srd.realmspire.com/unearthedSpecialist.html#diviner) 1 | Class | UA |
60 |
3.5 | attack, save, skill, or level check| Limited times per day
Duelist 1 | PrC | DMG |
185 |
3.5 | AC | Limited by class level
Eternal Blade 1 | PrC | Tome of Battle |
110 |
3.5 | To-Hit | Against 1 creature type
Eternal Blade 1 | PrC | Tome of Battle |
110 |
3.5 | Damage | Against 1 creature type
Eternal Blade 6 | PrC | Tome of Battle |
110 |
3.5 | AC | Dodge bonus, Swift Action
Exemplar 8 | PrC | Complete Adventurer |
44 |
3.5 | Initiative | -
Exemplar 8 | PrC | Complete Adventurer |
44 |
3.5 | Reflex Saves | -
Factotum 1 | Class | Dungeonscape |
14 |
3.5 | To-Hit | Requires Insp. Point
Factotum 1 | Class | Dungeonscape |
14 |
3.5 | Saves | Requires Insp. Point
Factotum 1 | Class | Dungeonscape |
14 |
3.5 | Damage | Requires Insp. Point
Factotum 3 | Class | Dungeonscape |
14 |
3.5 | AC | One foe, Requires Insp. Point
Factotum 3 | Class | Dungeonscape |
14 |
3.5 | Str checks and Skills | -
Factotum 3 | Class | Dungeonscape |
14 |
3.5 | Dex checks and Skills | -
Factotum 16 | Class | Dungeonscape |
14 |
3.5 | AC | Dodge bonus
Iaijutsu Master 1 | PrC | Oriental Adventures |
41 |
3.0 | AC | while wielding katana
Illusionist | Variant | Unearthed Arcana |
63 |
3.5 | Hide | -
Invisible Blade 1 | PrC | Complete Warrior |
44 |
3.5 | AC | Limited by class level
Mantis Mercenary 5 | PrC | Oriental Adventures |
231 |
3.0 | AC | vs. Dodge feat foe only
Montebank 1 | PrC | Complete Scoundrel |
57 |
3.5 | Bluff | -
Nightcloak 7 | PrC | Complete Divine WE (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a) |
NA |
3.5 | Saves | -
Sanctified One 1 | PrC | Complete Champion |
101 |
3.5 | Caster Level | Limited Uses
Swashbuckler 3 | Class | Complete Warrior |
11 |
3.5 | Damage | -
Swiftblade 4 | PrC | Online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) |
NA |
3.5 | Initiative | Uses primary caster statistic
Warblade 1 | Class | Tome of Battle |
22 |
3.5 | Reflex Saves | Limited by class level
Warblade 3 | Class | Tome of Battle |
22 |
3.5 | Critical Confirmation Rolls | -
Warblade 7 | Class | Tome of Battle |
22 |
3.5 | Damage | Melee, against flat-footed & flanked
Warblade 11 | Class | Tome of Battle |
22 |
3.5 | Certain Opposed checks | Bull Rush, Disarm, etc
Warblade 15 | Class | Tome of Battle |
22 |
3.5 | Damage | AoO only
Warmage 1 | Class | Complete Arcane |
22 |
3.5 | Damage | on spells
Ascetic Psion | Feat | Secrets of Sarlona |
115 |
3.5 | AC | Replaces Wis, Requires Monk
Carmendine Monk | Feat | Champions of Valor |
28 |
3.5 | AC, Monk Powers | Replaces Wis, Requires Monk
Faerie Mysteries Init. | Feat | Dragon 319 |
58 |
3.5 | Hit Points | Replaces Con
Insightful Reflexes | Feat | Complete Adventurer |
110 |
3.5 | Reflex Saves | Replaces Dex
Keen Intellect | Feat | Dragon #318 |
38 |
3.5 | Will Saves | Replaces Wis
Kung Fu Genius | Feat | 319 |
71 |
3.5 | AC, Monk Powers | Replaces Wis, Requires Monk
Rapscallion | Feat | Dragon 315 |
54 |
3.5 | Bluff | Regional
Control Body | Power | Expanded Psionics Handbook |
86 |
3.5 | To-Hit | of Dominated foe
Control Body | Power | Expanded Psionics Handbook |
86 |
3.5 | Damage | of Dominated foe
Control Body | Power | Expanded Psionics Handbook |
86 |
3.5 | AC | of Dominated foe
Thunder Lance | Spell | Spell Compendium |
220 |
3.5 | To-Hit | with spell's lance only
Thunder Lance | Spell | Spell Compendium |
220 |
3.5 | Damage | with spell's lance only
Whirling Blade | Spell | Spell Compendium |
238 |
3.5 | To-Hit | -
Whirling Blade | Spell | Spell Compendium |
238 |
3.5 | Damage | -
[/table]

Taken from here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732)

[Lamech]

Couple choices:
Archivist: with scroll making rules you can make wizard spells as divine scrolls (since you use archivist to craft them, and you can cast the spell). Now most of these won't be on any divine caster's spell list, but the archivist doesn't need them to be. Now you are a wizard/better-wizard.

Action enconomy breakage: Factotum and psion. Factom has cunning speed or whatever gives him extra actions and when combined with font of inspiration breaks the action economy. Psion has synchronicity, schism, and temporal acceleration. (Temperol acceleration gives a round of time stop as a swift. Use it to ready an action.)