Statting Planeswalkers in 3.5

[Tokuhara]

As both a huge Magic: the Gathering and D&D fan, I had actually wanted to include Planeswalkers as NPCs (since throwing Drizz't has been done 1000+ times...), so how would you all make the human(oid) planeswalkers "optimally" so players won't be "Billy BA" and try to kill Planeswalkers (my players have a bad habit of killing off any NPC that they know, just for the fame of being known as the "Slayer of NPC X")

Thanks y'all in advance

[Incanur]

Just make them high-level casters. Probably epic. Urza and Mishra could artificers.

[Dochetwas]

Make one of them Commodore Guff, so that he can ret-con whatever your PCs do if he doesn't like it. :smalltongue:

More relevantly, do you mean pre-Mending or post-Mending 'walkers? There is a fairly significant difference between the two.

[Tokuhara]

Make one of them Commodore Guff, so that he can ret-con whatever your PCs do if he doesn't like it. :smalltongue:

More relevantly, do you mean pre-Mending or post-Mending 'walkers? There is a fairly significant difference between the two.

What the sod is "Mending????" Im thinking the "best" versions of each. Trust me, Sorin and Jace are the equivelant of DMPCs, but not so much. They "tag along" to get the PCs out of trouble.

And I assumed Urza would be an Artificier.

Also making Memnarch the BBEG. Would he be a Wizard//Artificer/Rogue Mastermaker?

[MammonAzrael]

Do you follow the M:tG storylines at all? Pre-Mending is everything that happened before the Time Spiral block. Pre-Mending planeswalkers are deities by D&D standards. I'm no god expert but they'll need multiple divine ranks. They are stupidly powerful.

Post-Mending planeswalkers are waaaaay less powered, and are weak enough to be featured on actual cards. These guys are going to vary a lot more, but I'd put them well below epic, except perhaps for Nicol Bolas and maybe Sorin. (At least from the planeswalkers we've met thus far)

You know, planeswalker might make a good template.

If you're looking to accurately represent them, you'll want to read all the corresponding novels, as they've become the primary characters, IIRC. And there is plenty about them not covered by their card abilities.

[Coidzor]

Isn't the status of being a Planeswalker basically the same as being Astrally Projected (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/astralProjection.htm)?

[Gnaritas]

I do not read the books, but i have read the short comics, so anything i say might be way off ;)

Elspeth Tirel
Human
Knight, Paladin, Crusader and Cleric fit her well imho or any combination.

Ajani Goldmane
Catfolk (+1 LA)
Melee focused cleric

Chandra Nalaar
Human
Sorcerer (focusing on fire spells)

Jace Beleren
Human
Wizard.....maybe Psion?

Liliana Vess
Human
Warlock

Garruk Wildspeaker
Human
Barbarian, Psychic Warrior, Druid (with Ranger abilities from UA)
Maybe add the Half-Ogre template from Dungeon Magazine to make him more awesome.

Sarkhan Vol
Human
Dragonfire Adept, Dragon Shaman

Tezzeret
Human
Artificer
You probably want some template on him, but i am not sure which

Sorin Markov
Vampire
Necromancer

Nissa Revane
Elf
Druid

[Vemynal]

Just my opinion where it differs from above:

Jace Beleren
Human
I'd say to make him either a focused specialist Enchanter barring: Necromancy, Evocation and Conjuration or make him a Psion

Liliana Vess
Human
I'd actually say Dread Necromancer with Tomb-tainted soul and maybe some special devil/demon or undead related PrC.

Garruk Wildspeaker
Human
Druid with levels in the Animal Lord PrC (or whatever its called...its in the complete adventurer).
Throw in 1 level of Barb for the rage ability

Tezzeret
Human
Artificer
Your going to want the iron-golem template if going by story, but the stats don't quite add up

[Baveboi]

You know, there are already tons of planewalkers on the D&D multiverse already. Sigil is all about it.

You could bring up Ann (who wrote all books known about devils and demons that there are) or Vecna. Everyone knows Vecna. There's also the many, many spell namers, the (in)famous Otiluck (human), Otoo (half-elf), Hanry (hum), Bigby (dwarf) and thousands of others. They tend to walk around the planes and whisper secrets of magic and power to mortals. Vecna SPECIALLY. He loves to unplot something in exchange for new secrets to hold.

You could also create any numbers of your own planewalkers. They come from many races (Githyanki, Githzerai, Illithids, Genasis, Planetoucheds, Devils, Celestials, etc) and tend to walk around doing whatever they want.

The requirement to be a planewalker is only simple willpower, so they extend their will to their travels and abandon all powers they had afiliation with. Many known powers of today were once humble planewalkers; Lady of Pain, Vecna, etc.

[Eldan]

Not that kind of Planewalkers, Baveboi :smalltongue:

In D&D, it's anyone travelling the planes. In M:tG, it's a godlike being of enormous power. The only one I'd qualify from that list is Vecna, since he's the only actual god. Epic mages in D&D might barely qualify.

[Baveboi]

Not that kind of Planewalkers, Baveboi :smalltongue:

In D&D, it's anyone travelling the planes. In M:tG, it's a godlike being of enormous power. The only one I'd qualify from that list is Vecna, since he's the only actual god. Epic mages in D&D might barely qualify.

You are telling me that the lady of Pain does not qualiffy as a Godlike power, even if she did killed and absorbed the multiverse God of all portals and gates. Nor does the Magisters I listed, even thought they exist on Greyhalk, Faerun, Ravenloft and any number of other settings (and they were the ones who banished Vecna to imprisionment, just before the lich torn apart the planes to get out).

You believe Ann does not qualify as well? Even since the guy spoke to Pale Night (the mother of ALL demons), Asmodeus, Mephistopheles and any sort of terribly madening creatures and he still isn't qualifying as God-like epic? Do note that Ann wrote all entries on Demons/Devils of ALL books you do have, fluffwise speaking.

Gods are only Powers who have divine ranks. The rest, my friend, is badassery plain and simple.

[Eldan]

The Lady of Pain is probably one. Ann? Badass, sure. But Magic has plenty of badasses, and still few of them can reform the planes or create new creatures.

[Baveboi]

The Lady of Pain is probably one. Ann? Badass, sure. But Magic has plenty of badasses, and still few of them can reform the planes or create new creatures.

True, but I find it goes towards choices rather than oportunity or capabilities. Any magister could well reasearch a Genesis spell and Ann himself spawned a little lady from the bellies of Pale Night... brrrrrrr!

I believe there should be a distinction between Planewalker and Planetraveller however. Planeshift can make you Planetravel but that doesn't make a Planewalker, since you don't shape the matter of the planes with your sheer willpower, and that's what planewalkers do.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Jace Beleren
Human
I'd say to make him either a focused specialist Enchanter barring: Necromancy, Evocation and Conjuration...

Isn't this just a Beguiler? I feel like that would fit quite well.

[Gnaritas]

Isn't this just a Beguiler? I feel like that would fit quite well.

Hmmm, yeah, he also has that shadowy thing going that the beguiler has too.

[Runestar]

No one remembers the older planeswalkers like Freyalise, Tvesh-tzat(sp?), Teferi and Lim-Dul? :smallfurious::smalltongue:

[Psyren]

I thought the Lady of Pain couldn't leave? That means she's not a planeswalker, no matter how powerful she is.

Yawgmoth was crazy powerful too, but he couldn't leave - ergo, not a planeswalker. Same for Gaea, O-Kagachi and a few others of that level.

[Gnaritas]

No one remembers the older planeswalkers like Freyalise, Tvesh-tzat(sp?), Teferi and Lim-Dul? :smallfurious::smalltongue:

If you read the thread somebody already explained the difference between the old and new planeswalkers.

[Psyren]

No one remembers the older planeswalkers like Freyalise, Tvesh-tzat(sp?), Teferi and Lim-Dul? :smallfurious::smalltongue:

Dead and/or de-powered. Next!

[Runestar]

Dead and/or de-powered. Next!

What?!? Since when? :smalleek:

[Psyren]

What?!? Since when? :smalleek:

Since Invasion block for most of them, and Time Spiral for the remainder.

The survivors generally became mentors for the next generation even as they lost their own sparks. (e.g. Jaya Ballard mentored Chandra Nalaar, Teferi mentored Venser etc.)

[Gnaritas]

What?!? Since when? :smalleek:

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Planeswalker#Storyline

[Psyren]

As was previously stated, traditional planeswakers were closer to deities (or perhaps more accurately to Godminds (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/godmind)) than to truly stattable spellcasters. The new ones are high level, but not epic except in a few cases and thus would work much better for this concept.

[Baveboi]

I thought the Lady of Pain couldn't leave? That means she's not a planeswalker, no matter how powerful she is.

The Lady of Pain can't leave NOW, because now she rules Sigil and Sigil is her, but it's within her capabilities, yes. The problem is she began somewhere else (no one knows where or when) and ended up on Sigil where she defeated the god of portals and gates and claimed Sigil for herself.
Of course, it's a prison for her as much as it is for anyone else, maybe even more so, since if she ever leaves a power void will be left behind that could easily destroy Sigil.

[Eldan]

?
That sounds like a really questionable interpretation of the Lady's fluff. We don't know whether she can leave or not. We just know she was never seen outside of Sigil.
And she was in Sigil, and had claimed it as her own, long before Aoskar ever set foot there.

[Baveboi]

There are some bit of fluff on Planescape: Torment that indicates otherwise. A strange priest of Aoskar said the god was trully the real master of Sigil, but then the lady came and ate him and his power altogether, claiming his divine ranks as hers.
There are also some histories about why Sigil is so miserable and why it's considered a Maze Birdcage. They say the lady was from another universe and she can never leave again, so basically she makes everyone as miserable as her and don't allow easy emigration from the plane.

Many are only histories, but some were written by the same guys who made Sigil what it is. It's a fine line between what's true and what's not.

[Tokuhara]

Y'all have done an excellent job. And yes, the "Original Casters" and a lesser Vecna (I can tweak my storyline so he's pre-deity) will also be planeswalkers.

My only question: Ain't Liliana Ves a vampire? Every source I've looked into says she's a vampire "well over 100 years old." That, and she's featured in every Vampire deck...

[big teej]

-prepares to have things thrown at him-

I've been playing a planeswalker Human Barbarian since my very first game of DND


how?

simple, I love this character, and my group was incapable of playing the same campaign for more than 2 weeks....

so my babarian began to hop worlds... planes, if you will

he existed within mine as a 'party resource' (an NPC the party could take along for extra muscle)
he exists within each other DM I've played with
he even hopped editions one time (3.x to 1st and back)
he currently exists in I believe.......8-9 different worlds/campaigns/planes


anytime he dies, (not that this has ever happened) he just pops up in another world.

[Gnaritas]

My only question: Ain't Liliana Ves a vampire? Every source I've looked into says she's a vampire "well over 100 years old." That, and she's featured in every Vampire deck...

The wiki-site says she is human, while it also says Sorin is a vampire.

The age is a none-issue, planeswalkers have a way to deal with age.

[Tyndmyr]

Chandra isn't a sorc...none of the planeswalkers really are, since they have way too much flexibility.

However, I see the thematic sorc-like potential there, what with the tendancy to overwhelm via sheer quantity of fire.

So, ultimate magus. Evocation focused specialist/sorc. Searing Spell is in there somewhere.

[Maho-Tsukai]

The lack of Phyrexian awesomeness in this thread disturbs me. While I know it's for the walkers, Phyrexia is still the most awesome part of MTG...but anyway..

Pre-Mending Walkers would definetly need Deity stats, thats for sure. Likewise if somebody ever tried to take on the daring feat of statting up Yawgmoth he, like the walkers, would need an absurd divine rank. However, post mending Planeswalkers, at least in my eyes, would be at the LEAST a level close to or actually at level 20, if not epic. Bolas however, would be epic for sure. Nobody can deny how powerful Bolas is, espcially since he's the become the new offical "big bad" of the MtG multiverse with Yawgmoth being out of the picture.(However, with the SoM block I am hopeing Yawg will make his grand return that was forshadowed by Karona but then ret-coned by Wizards into being just a vision...Screw Wizards, All hail the Father of Machines!:smallcool:)

Also, this thread reminds me of a plan I had long ago to make an 'mtg" version of 3.5e which split all the spells up into the five colors and instead of all casters having their own class spell list your spell choice was based on what color(s) your character was. Most characters would have 2-3 colors and 1 color characters would be specalized casters like the Dread Necro(Black), Beguiler(Blue), Warmage(Red) ect... Also, beyond the specalists clerics and druids would not exsist due to flavor reasons. I mean, the heaviest armor I have seen on an MTG cleric had to be, at best, light armor, and even then like 90% of the clerics I have seen on MTG cards have been cloth wearing priests/robe wearers, the only really 'armor-y" clerics being the Kor/Whatever those Il/En/confusing title/whatever guys are and some of the Clerics of the Cabal though the armor they had usually just covered their chest and/or sholders and I would be hard pressed even call that light, let alone medium or heavy....and a lot of the Cabal clerics still where full robe wearers. Clerics and Druids would thus have to be homebrew classes that more matches their MTG flavor...of course, classes that only appear in certain colors would have a color restriction...and all that kinda stuff. The idea was actually inspired by a thread on this forum about MTG colors as aligenments and the "colurs of magic" which was a group of 3rd party supliments for 3.5e which arranged the core spells into colors and created a class spell-list free color spellcasting system(Meaning that you could have wizards with heal spells..)

But I gave up that idea because while casters where east to get ideas for, Melee was hard for me to create things for...that and I am a kinda sucky crunch homebrewer.

[Eldan]

There were some clerics in the onslaught block (one of the last blocks I played, I stopped somewhere in Mirrodin), which had at least medium armour. But yeah, most of it is light.

[Gnaritas]

Chandra isn't a sorc...none of the planeswalkers really are, since they have way too much flexibility.

However, I see the thematic sorc-like potential there, what with the tendancy to overwhelm via sheer quantity of fire.

So, ultimate magus. Evocation focused specialist/sorc. Searing Spell is in there somewhere.

There is not much flexibility in Chandra, she either burns things, incinerates them, engulfs them in flames or blasts them with fire....